Lane splitting - following distance

[p.dath]

I was lane splitting along the motorway on the North Shore this morning. I try to do it along the guide lines I had from the Police (stay in same lane, left of centre line, no more than 40km/h, etc).
You might have a different idea on what is safe for you, that's fine.

What I don't like is another rider following me so closely that I am left in the position where I can not brake to avoid something, such as a car suddenly changing lane.
And that is the situation I found myself in this morning. Another rider following me so closely that I new they would hit me if I braked. In fact I was not even confident I could even slow down they were so close.

I new you wanted to ride faster. It was obvious. I eventually found a gap between cars that I could pull into without slowing down (so I could be confident I would not be tailed ended by the other rider) to let the other rider past.

So please, I ask only one thing, when behind another rider please don't follow so closely that you could not possibly stop in the distance in front of you without hitting them. You can choose to ride faster than me lane splitting - that's ok - but putting other riders at risk is not.

[bogan]

did you try flashing you brake lights? usually gets people to back off I find

[CookMySock]

So please, I ask only one thing, when behind another rider please don't follow so closely that you could not possibly stop in the distance in front of you without hitting them.How do you know he couldn't, or is this just what you believe?

The easiest non-confrontational way to get ride of people on your ass, is to ride erratically. No one in their right mind will follow an erratic rider closely. Don't try to communicate with them - it usually only makes things worse.

Steve

[Latte]

I'll typically follow about 5-6 bike lengths back, then slowly get closer untill I'm a couple behind - hopefully by then they'll have found a spot. If not I'll hop across to the other lane, or just give up and cruise behind.

You obvioulsy can't control the rider behind, but if you are feeling they are following to closely slow down and give yourself more breathing space at the front. So if you do have to stop you can do so "slower" and the guy behind will only shit himself, instead of shit himself AND crash into you :D

[Cayman911]

If it was that bad i would have personally turned my neck around and made it clear with arm, or more specifically finger signals to him to bugger off.

[nodrog]

im sorry, i was in a hurry.

[Gubb]

The easiest non-confrontational way to get ride of people on your ass, is to ride erratically.

Perhaps you could do us all a favour and ride erratically in Auckland traffic.

[scooute]

I thought giving each other space was a given? flashing break lights would have been my first option... then ducking for cover as you did... Ride safe:ride:

[Thaeos]

We like to go on about bloody cagers etc but the truth is there's plenty of tards out there on bikes as well... sounds like this person is one of them?

[jeffs]

How far back did you see him/her catching you ? If you saw them a long way off, you should have been well prepared to move out of the way before it came to a panic situation.
Riding a bike in heavy traffic is like driving a car. If some one is coming up quick get out of the way.

This may sound hard, but its not a trackday so you should be using your mirrors.

If they cut in quick from several lanes across, so there was no seeing them coming, then just drop your throttle and coast into a passing position.

Harsh breaking with a bike behind ( as suggested by some ), just turns into a 2 bike crash and a place on the news about bad biking. If you have time to play the break light game, you also have time to get out of the way and get on with your life.

[Bulldog]

I hear you mate and have several nut bags come up on me a lot on the western. I quite often see them coming way off (as I use my mirrors) and find a gap before they get to me. But the reverse can be true also. I am seriously starting to lose patience with people sitting the between or just behind the cars waiting for the 'right speed' to filter meanwhile those of us who want to go faster can't get through. Basic rule people, if you're not filtering move out of the 'bike lane'. I am the most patient bastard out there but man there is some ignorant buggers around. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE :/

[scooute]

How far back did you see him/her catching you ? If you saw them a long way off, you should have been well prepared to move out of the way before it came to a panic situation.
Riding a bike in heavy traffic is like driving a car. If some one is coming up quick get out of the way.

Harsh breaking with a bike behind ( as suggested by some ), just turns into a 2 bike crash and a place on the news about bad biking. If you have time to play the break light game, you also have time to get out of the way and get on with your life.

Not actually braking suggested just a friendly lighting of the brake lights with a couple of very gentle taps on the rear brake to let him know you are there (just like when making sure the car behind has seen you)

[Swoop]

Basic rule people, if you're not filtering move out of the 'bike lane'. I am the most patient bastard out there but man there is some ignorant buggers around. YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE :/
It is certainly not the chap on the blue scooter...

[rie]

just move aside at the next possible opportunity. just like you have no way to communicate to them to back off, they have no way to communicate to you to move aside.

i definitely filter faster than 40k/h (whether this is wise is mootable) and usually if there is someone filtering slower than me i try to switch filtering lanes to be curteous. but this is not always the safest option. so i may simply sit behind them. and they might think this is too close on their bum even though i might think i am at a safe distance. again, impossible to communicate any of this to each other.

in short, i am always grateful to filter-ers who simply merge into traffic to let me through. and i always do the same for filter-ers who filter faster than me. nobody gets annoyed.

[rie]

Not actually braking suggested just a friendly lighting of the brake lights with a couple of very gentle taps on the rear brake to let him know you are there (just like when making sure the car behind has seen you)

i'd also add that i would never have guessed from brake-light-tapping that the rider wants me to back off, especially in a filtering situation

[bogan]

i'd also add that i would never have guessed from brake-light-tapping that the rider wants me to back off, especially in a filtering situation

the theory is that if a vehicle is following too close, and brake lights come on they would slow down so as not o run into the back of them. Or do you ignore brake lights and just judge speeds instead? I always though it was a well known way to communicate to people you want them to back off.

[scooute]

i'd also add that i would never have guessed from brake-light-tapping that the rider wants me to back off, especially in a filtering situation

Completely understandable?? :yes: The OP stated that it took him some time to find a gap in traffic to slide into, (a cager could have suddenly decided they wanted to be in the next lane, leaving a mash of 2 bikes and one car) thus my thinking of an attempt to make sure the other rider knew he was there, perhaps he could have indicated his intention to merge so the following rider could have passed too then? yes? I guess its all good to say until your in the situation yourself and we all deal/feel about it diff?
Ride safe all:scooter:

[p.dath]

How far back did you see him/her catching you ? If you saw them a long way off, you should have been well prepared to move out of the way before it came to a panic situation.

I didn't see them till they were quite close, and then they closed rapidly. I suspect they may have just entered the motorway from an on-ramp.

On reflection, I should have tapped my brake lights. They were just so close at the time I was worried that any action I took may have lead to an accident (I was worried about even slowing down!). I'm confident that if I had to slow down (not even talking about an emergency brake) they would have hit me.

Regardless, all I wanted to do was raise awareness. I just wanted people to consider the "what if" next time they might be behind someone.

[scooute]

Regardless, all I wanted to do was raise awareness. I just wanted people to consider the "what if" next time they might be behind someone.
Good point, I try my best to ride to what if, good message to want to share!:yes:

[surfchick]

I'd better not say anything about this! lol:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/122942-Auckland-s-Northern-Motorway-lanesplit-finalist-for-50-000-art-award!

[YellowDog]

No one in their right mind will follow an erratic rider closely.

:rofl:

BUT THEY ARE NOT IN THEIR RIGHT MIND OR THEY WOULDN'T BE FOLLOWING SO CLOSELY IN HEAVY TRAFFIC :)

[surfchick]

:rofl:

BUT THEY ARE NOT IN THEIR RIGHT MIND OR THEY WOULDN'T BE FOLLOWING SO CLOSELY IN HEAVY TRAFFIC :)


I must admit- I'll sometimes go by in the middle lanes if I catch someone - I prefer to have a full view ahead so I can see each car's driver instead... unless its a ducati... then I'll follow for sheer audio pleasure... lol

[Mihajlo]

I gotta confess too, i sometimes follow too closely on my way to the city, not because i want to go fast but so i can learn off them and look cool going in a small convoy >.>

[CookMySock]

... unless its a ducati... then I'll follow for sheer audio pleasure... lolThe best aural pleasure I have received by far, was riding my 650 vtwin (loud pipes on it) following a V8 car also with loud pipes. Fuck I could have followed him for hours.. The resonating with the booma-booma-booma going forwards and backwards between us was like nothing I ever heard before. Brought a tear to mah eye it did.

Steve

[jeffs]

I didn't see them till they were quite close, and then they closed rapidly. I suspect they may have just entered the motorway from an on-ramp.

Regardless, all I wanted to do was raise awareness. I just wanted people to consider the "what if" next time they might be behind someone.

Raising peoples awareness is always good :) , but as a full time commuter I see bikes blocking other bikes in rush hour every single day.
The reality is bikers are just as bad as cars for not wanting people to over take them. So how do you tell one of them, from someone who just did not see you ?

There is only one form of self defense, and I am not trying to sound horrible, I know you are a good guy :)
" Don't be there".

This may not be your case, but to others..

If you look in your mirror and your see a bike, and when you look in your mirror again, and the bike looks bigger, then this should tell you something..
You should be preparing to get out of the way, because someone is catching you, and that person may not be a cautious KB rider.


:rofl:

BUT THEY ARE NOT IN THEIR RIGHT MIND OR THEY WOULDN'T BE FOLLOWING SO CLOSELY IN HEAVY TRAFFIC :)

Unfortunately, Yellow dog has it right..

I will pass bikes on the motorway, bikes that have not been lane splitting, or going much slower than me. The moment I pass, they think its a race and they wake up and start following at my speed.
Why ?????

Answer: Testosterone.

[jeffs]

I'd better not say anything about this! lol:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/122942-Auckland-s-Northern-Motorway-lanesplit-finalist-for-50-000-art-award!

Stretching the point a bit but..
This raises a good point, neither of these bikes would have seen another bike catching up. Both would just have lovely views of their elbows. Another good reason why
some bikes do not move over.

[CookMySock]

I always though it was a well known way to communicate to people you want them to back off.Yes it is, and that is the problem.

People who are following you really closely are not doing it inadvertently. They do not want or need your reminder that they should not do so. Usually their emotional state is in such a position, that they will respond negatively or even angrily if you try and remind them, or ask them to do anything.

Don't do it! Either find another way, or get out of their way, or do nothing.

It's very dangerous getting into "discussions" with people on the road, whose ego or emotional state is getting out of order. Often they will suddenly turn on you or do something really dangerous.


Steve

[Latte]

I will pass bikes on the motorway, bikes that have not been lane splitting, or going much slower than me. The moment I pass, they think its a race and they wake up and start following at my speed.
Why ?????

Answer: Testosterone.

Or "The Sacrificial Lamb" - i.e following another rider usually means the car drivers have been woken from their slumber behind the wheel, so should be more alert as you follow a little bit behind. Also if a policeman is looking for a splitter to nab, he'll catch the lamb out front :D I almost always fall in behind another splitter after I've let them through.

[jeffs]

Or "The Sacrificial Lamb" - i.e following another rider usually means the car drivers have been woken from their slumber behind the wheel, so should be more alert as you follow a little bit behind. Also if a policeman is looking for a splitter to nab, he'll catch the lamb out front :D I almost always fall in behind another splitter after I've let them through.

Ok fair comment not every case is Testosterone driven, but one flaw on the police idea. You are trying to apply your logic, not a policeman's.

The tailing cop to take either bike, its about ticket numbers. If you are not riding like a prat ( and of course we don't ;) ) , they will take the easiest catch regardless if you are the first or second bike.

And unfortunately " But I was following another bike" is not a defense in law :(

[jeffs]

Yes it is, and that is the problem.

People who are following you really closely are not doing it inadvertently. They do not want or need your reminder that they should not do so. Usually their emotional state is in such a position, that they will respond negatively or even angrily if you try and remind them, or ask them to do anything.

Don't do it! Either find another way, or get out of their way, or do nothing.

It's very dangerous getting into "discussions" with people on the road, whose ego or emotional state is getting out of order. Often they will suddenly turn on you or do something really dangerous.


Steve


I do not exaggerate but that is 1,000,000% correct. On a bike more so. So listen and take note of DB's comments ( in this case ) if you want to survive as a commuter.

[madbikeboy]

I was lane splitting along the motorway on the North Shore this morning. I try to do it along the guide lines I had from the Police (stay in same lane, left of centre line, no more than 40km/h, etc).
You might have a different idea on what is safe for you, that's fine.

What I don't like is another rider following me so closely that I am left in the position where I can not brake to avoid something, such as a car suddenly changing lane.
And that is the situation I found myself in this morning. Another rider following me so closely that I new they would hit me if I braked. In fact I was not even confident I could even slow down they were so close.

I new you wanted to ride faster. It was obvious. I eventually found a gap between cars that I could pull into without slowing down (so I could be confident I would not be tailed ended by the other rider) to let the other rider past.

So please, I ask only one thing, when behind another rider please don't follow so closely that you could not possibly stop in the distance in front of you without hitting them. You can choose to ride faster than me lane splitting - that's ok - but putting other riders at risk is not.

The simple answer is get the fuck out of my way.

There is nothing more irritating than some plonker sitting blocking the way; everyone has a closure speed that works for them, if you're wearing panty liners and someone is sitting behind you, simply wave them through - problem solved.

Here's a thought for you - are you in more danger by moving quicker or slower when filtering? If you answered that you're in more danger doing it faster, think in terms of closure speed and time exposed to danger (aka being alongside a cage). etc etc.

Peace, love, and happy lane splitting.

MBB

[CookMySock]

The simple answer is get the fuck out of my way. There is nothing more irritating than some plonker sitting blocking the waySorry mate, but there's no one more dangerous than people who act like this on the open road. What if a truckie got this angry with you and took the law into his own hands? You better make sure you have clean undies that day... either that or a clean casket.

Keep your head in check at all times, and if you can't then at least do it while you're on the road.

Steve

[chasio]

I do not exaggerate but that is 1,000,000% correct. On a bike more so. So listen and take note of DB's comments ( in this case ) if you want to survive as a commuter.

I'm with you and DB on this one.

The trick of course is in having the self awareness to realise that the person with an 'out of order' emotional state is you, or is about to be you. I cannot do anything about another rider/driver's emotional state but I can certainly monitor my own and try not to get into a competition, or otherwise fool myself into riding in an ill-judged way because my head state has gone irrational.

I'd love to be able to say I always manage it but I am human and I don't. But it's something I can aim for.

[p.dath]

Here's a thought for you - are you in more danger by moving quicker or slower when filtering? If you answered that you're in more danger doing it faster, think in terms of closure speed and time exposed to danger (aka being alongside a cage). etc etc.


If I increase my speed to 50km/s, and I have a two second reaction time, I need 27m for my reflexes to do something. When lane splitting I have two vehicles within 2m of myself, and probably 10 vehicles within 20m of me. And of these vehicles could attempt to change lane in front of me, and place me in significant danger. The slower I am travelling the less distance I will travel before I can respond to the danger.

My impression is I have more dangers in front of me than behind me when lane splitting.

I think the risk starts increasing rapidly going faster. There just isn't a lot of room to manoeuvre. But that's my point of view.

[p.dath]

Here's a thought for you - are you in more danger by moving quicker or slower when filtering? If you answered that you're in more danger doing it faster, think in terms of closure speed and time exposed to danger (aka being alongside a cage). etc etc.


If I increase my speed to 50km/s, and I have a two second reaction time, I need 27m for my reflexes to do something. When lane splitting I have two vehicles within 2m of myself, and probably 10 vehicles within 20m of me. And of these vehicles could attempt to change lane in front of me, and place me in significant danger. The slower I am travelling the less distance I will travel before I can respond to the danger.

My impression is I have more dangers in front of me than behind me when lane splitting.

I think the risk starts increasing rapidly going faster. There just isn't a lot of room to manoeuvre. But that's my point of view.

[bogan]

If I increase my speed to 50km/s, and I have a two second reaction time, I need 27m for my reflexes to do something. When lane splitting I have two vehicles within 2m of myself, and probably 10 vehicles within 20m of me. And of these vehicles could attempt to change lane in front of me, and place me in significant danger. The slower I am travelling the less distance I will travel before I can respond to the danger.

My impression is I have more dangers in front of me than behind me when lane splitting.

I think the risk starts increasing rapidly going faster. There just isn't a lot of room to manoeuvre. But that's my point of view.

If you have a two second reaction time, I suggest you take the bus :bleh:

[Spearfish]

If I increase my speed to 50km/s, and I have a two second reaction time, I need 27m for my reflexes to do something. When lane splitting I have two vehicles within 2m of myself, and probably 10 vehicles within 20m of me. And of these vehicles could attempt to change lane in front of me, and place me in significant danger. The slower I am travelling the less distance I will travel before I can respond to the danger.

My impression is I have more dangers in front of me than behind me when lane splitting.

I think the risk starts increasing rapidly going faster. There just isn't a lot of room to manoeuvre. But that's my point of view.

If your happy at the speed your doing then stay at it and move if and when you can.
If bike wants to go faster than a bike going faster than a cage, then its the other bikes problem but it needs tact on both sides.
I remember when a quick flash of the headlight said you wanted to go past rather than an insult needing retaliation and people would indicate when it was ok to pass them. Long time go...

[Latte]

Ok fair comment not every case is Testosterone driven, but one flaw on the police idea. You are trying to apply your logic, not a policeman's.

The tailing cop to take either bike, its about ticket numbers. If you are not riding like a prat ( and of course we don't ;) ) , they will take the easiest catch regardless if you are the first or second bike.

And unfortunately " But I was following another bike" is not a defense in law :(

He'll catch the person he sees committing the offense, which will be the guy in front, ask the VFR400 that got pinged a couple weeks back :D Typically splitting riders catch up and pass the cop stuck in traffic, not the other way round. It would be kind of stupid not to see what the cops reaction is to the 1st splitter is, before following suit.

[jeffs]

He'll catch the person he sees committing the offense, which will be the guy in front, ask the VFR400 that got pinged a couple weeks back :D Typically splitting riders catch up and pass the cop stuck in traffic, not the other way round. It would be kind of stupid not to see what the cops reaction is to the 1st splitter is, before following suit.

Every one has a different story.

I asked a cop friend the same question. He said " We usually never stop them, but when we do, we stop the one that we spot riding dangerously, and can react too with out putting other drivers at risk. This may not be the lead rider, as they have already gone passed and it could be the second rider that is riding stupidly or too close"

So if I were you, I would look at how you are riding instead of where in a procession you are. :) And remember The first rider may have just woken up the cop ;)

[jeffs]

I think the risk starts increasing rapidly going faster. There just isn't a lot of room to manoeuvre. But that's my point of view.

p.dath you ride at what ever speed you feel safe at. Being safe is all that matters. Don't worry about faster riders using smaller gaps, ride to your and only your skills.
Just move out of the way well in advance if you see one coming, and you will live to tell funny stories about how bad other riders are :)



My impression is I have more dangers in front of me than behind me when lane splitting.

What we are trying to say is others will ride faster and you must watch what is happening behind you, and there is danger there or you would not have started this thread.

I for one am trialing a rear view camera because mirrors suck while commuting and it works for me.

[jeffs]

I think the risk starts increasing rapidly going faster. There just isn't a lot of room to manoeuvre. But that's my point of view.

p.dath you ride at what ever speed you feel safe at. Being safe is all that matters. Don't worry about faster riders using smaller gaps, ride to your and only your skills.
Just move out of the way well in advance if you see one coming, and you will live to tell funny stories about how bad other riders are :)



My impression is I have more dangers in front of me than behind me when lane splitting.

What we are trying to say is others will ride faster and you must watch what is happening behind you, and there is danger there or you would not have started this thread.

I for one am trialing a rear view camera because mirrors suck while commuting and it works for me.

[jeffs]

Why does KB send 2 posts when you use the p.dath name. Has he really reached god like status ? ;)

[Jonno.]

If I increase my speed to 50km/s, and I have a two second reaction time, I need 27m for my reflexes to do something. When lane splitting I have two vehicles within 2m of myself, and probably 10 vehicles within 20m of me. And of these vehicles could attempt to change lane in front of me, and place me in significant danger. The slower I am travelling the less distance I will travel before I can respond to the danger.

My impression is I have more dangers in front of me than behind me when lane splitting.

I think the risk starts increasing rapidly going faster. There just isn't a lot of room to manoeuvre. But that's my point of view.
What about cars changing beside you? 40km is very slow and if I went 40km max I'd get overtaken by cars half the time. At that speed you're waiting for stuff to happen while at slightly faster I find I get past stuff before it happens. I split quite quickly (being on a bike pretty much made for splitting) and while I get people pulling out in front of me, I've never been so close that I couldn't slow down in time with a good 15m spare and also I find you can go into their lane anyway (ie they move to their right you go around the left).

[Little Miss Trouble]

I was lane splitting along the motorway on the North Shore this morning. I try to do it along the guide lines I had from the Police (stay in same lane, left of centre line, no more than 40km/h, etc).
You might have a different idea on what is safe for you, that's fine.

What I don't like is another rider following me so closely that I am left in the position where I can not brake to avoid something, such as a car suddenly changing lane.
And that is the situation I found myself in this morning. Another rider following me so closely that I new they would hit me if I braked. In fact I was not even confident I could even slow down they were so close.

I new you wanted to ride faster. It was obvious. I eventually found a gap between cars that I could pull into without slowing down (so I could be confident I would not be tailed ended by the other rider) to let the other rider past.

So please, I ask only one thing, when behind another rider please don't follow so closely that you could not possibly stop in the distance in front of you without hitting them. You can choose to ride faster than me lane splitting - that's ok - but putting other riders at risk is not.

Sounds to me like you have your panties in a knot because someone dared ride faster than your comfort zone.

Heres a little tip: Let other people worry about their own shit, you can't control them so just get out of their way and then continue to tootle along at your own nana speed

[Gwinch]

If I increase my speed to 50km/s, and I have a two second reaction time, I need 27m for my reflexes to do something.

I'd like to see the trail of wreckage that would ensue after you collided with another solid object whilst travelling at 50 kilometres per second. Damn, that's escape velocity if you construct a long enough ramp!

p.s assuming that's your velocity then I suspect that you revise your basic math. By my reckoning hitting the picks after 27m of wanting to do so at 50km/s requires a reaction time equal to 1/1851th of a second (as a fraction).

[MaxCannon]

My .2c

Don't let anyone coming up behind you dictate your speed.
If you are so focussed on your mirrors that you run into a car you'll look like a twat.

Basic rules

- Keep you closure speed sensible, I find about a 30kph or less differential works for me.
- Check your mirrors every 7- 10 seconds
- If someone is tailigating you signal with your left hand that you've seen them (keep watching the road ahead of you !)
- When you feel it's safe to do so indicate your move - either left or right and wait for them to pass.

[CookMySock]

Basic rules

- Keep you closure speed sensible, I find about a 30kph or less differential works for me.
- Check your mirrors every 7- 10 seconds
- If someone is tailigating you signal with your left hand that you've seen them (keep watching the road ahead of you !)
- When you feel it's safe to do so indicate your move - either left or right and wait for them to pass.Worth more than 2c.

@p.dath, It's just inexperience mate. A year later you will read all this and think what a frightened little boy you were in those days. Spend more time relaxing and riding, and less time calculating the problem.

Steve

[Spearfish]

My .2c

Don't let anyone coming up behind you dictate your speed.
If you are so focussed on your mirrors that you run into a car you'll look like a twat.

Basic rules

- Keep you closure speed sensible, I find about a 30kph or less differential works for me.
- Check your mirrors every 7- 10 seconds
- If someone is tailigating you signal with your left hand that you've seen them (keep watching the road ahead of you !)
- When you feel it's safe to do so indicate your move - either left or right and wait for them to pass.

10 c worth! simple aye

[p.dath]

What about cars changing beside you? 40km is very slow and if I went 40km max I'd get overtaken by cars half the time. At that speed you're waiting for stuff to happen while at slightly faster I find I get past stuff before it happens. I split quite quickly (being on a bike pretty much made for splitting) and while I get people pulling out in front of me, I've never been so close that I couldn't slow down in time with a good 15m spare and also I find you can go into their lane anyway (ie they move to their right you go around the left).

You lane split next to cars already travelling at 40km/h? Wow. I don't do that, so I guess I don't have that problem (with cars over taking me while splitting).

[p.dath]

I'd like to see the trail of wreckage that would ensue after you collided with another solid object whilst travelling at 50 kilometres per second. Damn, that's escape velocity if you construct a long enough ramp!

Haha. Well spotted. Yes, that should have been 50km/h, not 50km/s. :lol:

[madbikeboy]

If I increase my speed to 50km/s, and I have a two second reaction time, I need 27m for my reflexes to do something. When lane splitting I have two vehicles within 2m of myself, and probably 10 vehicles within 20m of me. And of these vehicles could attempt to change lane in front of me, and place me in significant danger. The slower I am travelling the less distance I will travel before I can respond to the danger.

My impression is I have more dangers in front of me than behind me when lane splitting.

I think the risk starts increasing rapidly going faster. There just isn't a lot of room to manoeuvre. But that's my point of view.

Okay, this is the dilemma - attention focused on the car directly ahead of you. You need to look further ahead and place your attention across all the cars that are there. Look for telltales - cars alongside each other provide almost perfect safety - think about it, if a car changes lane, it's into a gap and less likely into a car alongside. Cars with cars in their blindspot are a hazard. A car alongside a gap should be a 10 foot tall warning sign to you, especially if traffic is slowing ahead.

If traffic is slowing ahead, then look for cars doing a duck and dive.

If traffic is speeding up ahead, look for a duck and dive.

Look for taxis, and any obvious wiggles in the path of the car.

Look for people looking across, they tend to veer slightly towards where they're looking.

Look for tapping of brakes, a sure sign.

It is my view, that filtering slowly is massively dangerous. You sit alongside the car for too long. If you're doing faster you're safer, but you need to lift your attention forward.

Plan ahead, and there is no issue. I spend the entire time planning my escape routes - if that car moves right, I'm going to do this etc. If you're looking at a car at a time and not planning where next, you need to improve your intellectual capacity or buy a nice 4 wheeled motorcycle that fits your diminished mental capacity.

[kiwifruit]

Sounds to me like you have your panties in a knot because someone dared ride faster than your comfort zone.

Heres a little tip: Let other people worry about their own shit, you can't control them so just get out of their way and then continue to tootle along at your own nana speed

+ 1

[CookMySock]

Look for telltales - cars alongside each other provide almost perfect safety - think about it, if a car changes lane, it's into a gap and less likely into a car alongside. Cars with cars in their blindspot are a hazard. A car alongside a gap should be a 10 foot tall warning sign to you, especially if traffic is slowing ahead. If traffic is slowing ahead, then look for cars doing a duck and dive. If traffic is speeding up ahead, look for a duck and dive.
Look for taxis, and any obvious wiggles in the path of the car... people looking across, they tend to veer slightly towards where they're looking.Enormous experience showing here.


It is my view, that filtering slowly is massively dangerous. You sit alongside the car for too long. If you're doing faster you're safer, but you need to lift your attention forward. Plan ahead, and there is no issue. I spend the entire time planning my escape routes - if that car moves right, I'm going to do this etc. If you're looking at a car at a time and not planning where next, you need to improve your intellectual capacity or buy a nice 4 wheeled motorcycle that fits your diminished mental capacity.Or spend more time doing it. Again, massive experience on display, and well outside the ability of the OP, and many others. Most people are better to make sure they can stop in a car length, rather than take your approach, but I agree lingering in vulnerable spots is a no-no.


Steve

[jeffs]

In reality cars weaving all around you in rush hour is not the norm. The real thing to look at is gap closing ( the big squeeze ).

There is a plus side to bad NZ driving habits. No one f****g ever pulls over to let anyone pass. This means while commuting, once you are passed
the junction feed-in lanes, what you get is what you often see. ( very big generalization but I'm sure you get my point ). This only changes when cars come to a stop and every one is looking to move that one car further ahead.

For motorway Commuting bikers this is a big win, and makes it one good reason to own a bike.

What you really need to do is watch for squeezing, often caused by driver in attention. You know, tuning the radio, reading a good book ( yes it does happen ), txting, sleeping.....

This means you should be constantly scanning many cars ahead. Look at the gaps see if they are opening and closing, and judge which car, inside or out is the squeezer.
Then its down to timing your maneuver.

If you are unsure, back off and re-calculate...

If you have a bike behind you get out the way and let them go first, it will help wake the driver up and your gap may become more predictable.

This is one good reason to let other more experienced or foolish riders pass. Which is why I say look in your mirrors and get out of the way as soon and safely as you can.

Don't become like a car and never let people pass.

[skinman]

I have noticed if splitting to slowly that any twats who want to close you off have time to react whereas if you travel a bit faster they have no time to do anything about you coming through. very occasionaly someone might actualy see you coming and give you more space but it is rare and not to be relyed on

[madbikeboy]

DB, you said something nice to me. I'm sending you a virtual hug right here on KB.

[CookMySock]

DB, you said something nice to me. I'm sending you a virtual hug right here on KB.Just don't touch my bum. I hate that. :angry:

Steve

[jeffs]

You lane split next to cars already travelling at 40km/h? Wow. I don't do that, so I guess I don't have that problem (with cars over taking me while splitting).

I had an interesting one today ( Sunday ), I was on the Northern heading South, I had just passed the Silverdale on ramp traveling at 112kph.
I noted a bike catching me real quick, so slowed down to 108k ( below 10% over 100k in case my speedo is out ). The bike stopped catching and hung back a long way off.
I suspecting it was a police bike as it was white, but hard to be sure since it was hanging well back. I stayed at 108k . It followed me for several k's then started to close up. I watching in my rear view cam ( yes I use one instead of mirrors ). It was police, so I stayed true and held my speed. As he passed me at, say 5k more than me, he waved a hand to signal that even that speed was too quick and I should back off some more ( just a friendly police wave, not a ticket ).
I did because, there is no arguing with police no matter how you feel. He moved ahead of me staying at 105k, I let him open up a gap but matched into his speed at 105.

I followed him all the way back like this as far as the Tristram Off ramp. There traffic was starting to sit in both lanes and hence slow down. Then he did something that just had me smiling all the way home, He started Lane splitting. Yes 105kph lane splitting, just like the rest of us. None of the keeping to the left lane, so not crossing the white line, that P-dath talks about.

Good old commuter lane splitting. Straight between the cars, I continued to follow him as far as the Bridge were he pealed of to the left 2 lanes and I to the middle ones. But I would say between Tristram and the Bridge he Lane Split at least 20 times.

It made my day.... :)

[PrincessBandit]

I'm having to lane split every day on the motorway (both southern and Mangere bridge, depending on which way I go) to Epsom. While I'm very aware of what's behind me, especially before starting the split, my main focus is to the front and sides. I check my mirrors every few seconds to look behind for faster bikes coming up on me, but quite frankly my opinion is I ain't gonna up my filtering speed to satisfy someone behind me who wants to go faster. If I can pull back into a lane safely and let them past I will, but if their skills are so superior to mine and they're pissed that I'm daring to hold them up then they can jolly well find another way around me!
Ride your own ride and don't let impatient assholes push you into riding outside your ability. They won't care in the slightest if they cause you to have an accident due to their intimidation. Anyone with an ounce of respect for others on the road will realise that someone splitting slowly and carefully is probably either not terribly confident and just learning to do it; or someone who has road skills aimed at maximising the potential of their bike in thick traffic whilst simultaneously aiming to stay alive and avoid damage to other vehicles.

[CookMySock]

He started Lane splitting. Yes 105kph lane splitting, just like the rest of us. [....] Good old commuter lane splitting. Straight between the cars [....]

It made my day.... :)That's what I would call "approval" - confirmation by some authority that what you were already doing was in fact acceptable, even though it worried you - an important sign to bikers that the same is acceptable in most circumstances, provided we do it safely.

Good stuff! :niceone:

Steve

[nodrog]

That's what I would call "approval" - confirmation by some authority that what you were already doing was in fact acceptable, even though it worried you - an important sign to bikers that the same is acceptable in most circumstances, provided we do it safely.

Good stuff! :niceone:

Steve

all that proves is he can do whatever the fuck he wants, whos going to pull him over?

http://www.victoriakirst.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/ice-cream-fluorescent-light-bulb-whippy-225x300.jpg

[MarkH]

Ok fair comment not every case is Testosterone driven, but one flaw on the police idea. You are trying to apply your logic, not a policeman's.

The tailing cop to take either bike, its about ticket numbers. If you are not riding like a prat ( and of course we don't ;) ) , they will take the easiest catch regardless if you are the first or second bike.

And unfortunately " But I was following another bike" is not a defense in law :(

This reminds me of the story of a driver keeping with the flow of traffic which was over the speed limit, he got pulled over and ticketed and he asked the cop "why did you pull me over, what about all the other cars speeding?". The cop answered his question with a question "did you ever catch all the fish in a river?".

The lesson here is that just because you aren't the only one breaking the law it doesn't mean that you wont get caught for it.

[Blinkwing]

I usually travel from Esmonde Rd to Shelly Beach Rd, last week there was around 6-7 bikers in front of me all following each other while lane splitting (didn't check behind me, don't wanna be distracted while lane splitting ..).

It was kinda cool seeing that many bikers all at once.

[jeffs]

This reminds me of the story of a driver keeping with the flow of traffic which was over the speed limit, he got pulled over and ticketed and he asked the cop "why did you pull me over, what about all the other cars speeding?". The cop answered his question with a question "did you ever catch all the fish in a river?".

The lesson here is that just because you aren't the only one breaking the law it doesn't mean that you wont get caught for it.

I never complain about the concept of a fare cop. If I got pulled for speeding, and I was speeding, far cop.

Lotto is not the only game of "pay your money and take your chance"

[jeffs]

God I'm sounding like my Mum :(

[jeffs]

I usually travel from Esmonde Rd to Shelly Beach Rd, last week there was around 6-7 bikers in front of me all following each other while lane splitting (didn't check behind me, don't wanna be distracted while lane splitting ..).

It was kinda cool seeing that many bikers all at once.

That is the whole point of this thread. You should have been looking behind you as well. If you could not because you think it was to dangerous to take your eyes off the what is going on in front out you ( or too pretty in your case ). Then you will hate my next comment.. You are riding beyond the conditions or your skill.

[Blinkwing]

That is the whole point of this thread. You should have been looking behind you as well. If you could not because you think it was to dangerous to take your eyes off the what is going on in front out you ( or too pretty in your case ). Then you will hate my next comment.. You are riding beyond the conditions or your skill.

Yeah, I admit I was probably riding beyond my skills. I gave looking behind me a try today, kicking myself in the arse for not doing it earlier ...

[madbikeboy]

Get into the habit of scanning the whole time - I do a pattern of looking forward, checking mirrors, using my magic special sideways vision, and doing a head check. It keeps you awake and alert. If you're sitting in traffic, there is danger behind - you present very little visual size to anyone travelling behind or beside you - getting rear ended by a car will spoil your day - how do you know what's approaching without checking your mirrors??

[PrincessBandit]

Get into the habit of scanning the whole time - I do a pattern of looking forward, checking mirrors, using my magic special sideways vision, and doing a head check. It keeps you awake and alert. If you're sitting in traffic, there is danger behind - you present very little visual size to anyone travelling behind or beside you - getting rear ended by a car will spoil your day - how do you know what's approaching without checking your mirrors??

Absolutely. When I start to get fatigued on the bike the first thing I notice to go is my mirror checking. I try to stay in a pattern of frequently rotating through them, but when I'm tired the first sign can be "ooops, haven't checked my mirrors for a while". When lanesplitting I tend not to look behind quite so much, but never neglect it completely.

[Mihajlo]

I tend to keep my vision on the cars beside me and what's happening ahead, every now and then i'll look at my mirrors while lane splitting, but i'd rather be aware of a prick closing off the lane ahead of me because he's butthurt about me going past him than if another bike is behind me pissed off that he can't go faster. (note: i lane split at about 50km)

[Swoop]

the concept of a fare cop.
That would be a policeman who charges you a fee for doing something? <_<

[MarkH]

That would be a policeman who charges you a fee for doing something? <_<

That kind are the most common, I think. I have had more interactions with fare cops than with fair cops.

[madbikeboy]

Do you recall when you first started riding - how much attention it took to change gears, manage the clutch, and keep the throttle smooth. After a day/week/month/lifetime, you start to forget about that because it's automatic, intuitive... Well, once you get a little more practice or experience, you'll find that you will be able to share your attention more effectively. That's about the most polite way I've ever said you've got something to learn and aim for... Danger comes from behind...

[Katman]

That's about the most polite way I've ever said you've got something to learn and aim for... Danger comes from behind...

Perhaps Danger should relax and find another way around a slower rider.

Instead of expecting the slower (and possibly less experienced) rider to merge back into the traffic (might be courteous of them - but sometimes self-preservation needs to over-rule courtesy) why don't you, as the more experienced rider, merge back into the traffic and split down a different lane?

The rider coming up from behind on a slower rider has far greater time to decide what they need to do to get past than the slower rider has to make their decision when suddenly pressured to get out of the way.

[PrincessBandit]

Perhaps Danger should relax and find another way around a slower rider.

Instead of expecting the slower (and possibly less experienced) rider to merge back into the traffic (might be courteous of them - but self-preservation should over-rule courtesy) why don't you, as the more experienced rider merge back into the traffic and split down a different lane?

The rider coming up from behind on a slower rider has far greater time to decide what they need to do to get past than the slower rider has to make their decision when suddenly pressured to get out of the way.

They don't because their mission is far too important to spend time trying to find an alternative route around another rider. When it comes to filtering i really can't see how people can complain about slower splitters; I mean it's not as if they're hogging a whole available lane. Expert lane splitters sometimes come across as if they think everyone should be doing as fast as they are. I rarely split much above 40kph simply because of safety and having to judge so many more parameters more finely; I've never really understood those who do it at speeds exceeding 50 or 60 (I guess they do it simply because they can).

[jeffs]

split down a different lane?

.

Good comment Katman, I do :)

Riders should assess the "slower rider" in front and if it is obvious they are not looking behind, ie you can not see them looking in their mirrors, don't get pissed off.
In a three lane motorway go around. But I would advise against this on a 2 lane motorway as there is no way around without putting every one else at risk.

Don't fixate on the bike ahead, or you will miss the other dangers around you, then you become the problem. " I crashed because there was a slow bike in front on me" does not hold much water.

[Jonno.]

What about when there's only two lanes?
I often go around slower splitters but when you've got 8 people following you and you get the polite beep, it's time to merge and let others through because blocking an overtake is very annoying and also illegal (especially at 30km). I have no problem with people who can't split fast but don't force me to go 30km because you think that's fast enough.

[PrincessBandit]

What about when there's only two lanes?
I often go around slower splitters but when you've got 8 people following you and you get the polite beep, it's time to merge and let others through because blocking an overtake is very annoying and also illegal (especially at 30km). I have no problem with people who can't split fast but don't force me to go 30km because you think that's fast enough.

And that's exactly the opinion which I'm talking about. You obviously DO have a problem with people who can't "split fast" (even if it is only when they're holding you up).
When you think about it, splitting means you're already travelling faster than the traffic in the lanes (read cars, trucks etc.) and splitting is quite a gray area when cock ups occur. Why is it so crucial to barge past another rider simply because one of the pair of you happens to not meet your requirements of speed? Are you really saying you have NO patience whatsoever on the road?

p.s. are you saying you actually have had the experience of seeing 8 other bikes being held up mid-split?
p.p.s. can you also point out legally where it says "blocking an overtake is very annoying and also illegal (especially at 30km) please. I'd have thought that blocking a lane split isn't probably mentioned anywhere in the road code, but do show me if it is written somewhere (genuine request, not p/t).

[Jonno.]

And that's exactly the opinion which I'm talking about. You obviously DO have a problem with people who can't "split fast" (even if it is only when they're holding you up).
When you think about it, splitting means you're already travelling faster than the traffic in the lanes (read cars, trucks etc.) and splitting is quite a gray area when cock ups occur. Why is it so crucial to barge past another rider simply because one of the pair of you happens to not meet your requirements of speed? Are you really saying you have NO patience whatsoever on the road?

p.s. are you saying you actually have had the experience of seeing 8 other bikes being held up mid-split?
p.p.s. can you also point out legally where it says "blocking an overtake is very annoying and also illegal (especially at 30km) please. I'd have thought that blocking a lane split isn't probably mentioned anywhere in the road code, but do show me if it is written somewhere (genuine request, not p/t).

I have no issue when you can't go fast as long as you pull in. I don't expect it right that second but at the next avalible opportunity please?

And yes I followed one idiot on a blue BMW who had 8 splitters behind him. He was going very slow and he was barely overtaking traffic. This is down the northern motorway. At one point he even stopped next to a police car because he couldn't fit infront of 8 others who could.

PS. Lane splitting is defined as overtaking. You can get fined $150 for blocking an overtake.

[PrincessBandit]

I have no issue when you can't go fast as long as you pull in. I don't expect it right that second but at the next avalible opportunity please?

And yes I followed one idiot on a blue BMW who had 8 splitters behind him. He was going very slow and he was barely overtaking traffic. This is down the northern motorway. At one point he even stopped next to a police car because he couldn't fit infront of 8 others who could.

PS. Lane splitting is defined as overtaking. You can get fined $150 for blocking an overtake.

Fair enough regarding the 8 lane splitters held up by the blue BMW; but just for clarity's sake could you please find and post the "official" e.g. road code/LTSA definition of lane splitting being classed as overtake, and post it for me. I guess I'd just like to know it's not just someone's opinion on the matter....(I've asked you nicely if you can do it since you are the one who mentioned it).

[Katman]

They don't because their mission is far too important to spend time trying to find an alternative route around another rider. When it comes to filtering i really can't see how people can complain about slower splitters; I mean it's not as if they're hogging a whole available lane. Expert lane splitters sometimes come across as if they think everyone should be doing as fast as they are. I rarely split much above 40kph simply because of safety and having to judge so many more parameters more finely; I've never really understood those who do it at speeds exceeding 50 or 60 (I guess they do it simply because they can).

Unfortunately, (even though they'll never admit it) one of the things foremost in the mind of the faster lane splitters is imagining, as they go past, that the slower rider is sitting there thinking "Wow, look at them go. They must be a far better rider than me".

It's all about giving the learn and ego stroking.

[Katman]

What about when there's only two lanes?


What's wrong with the outside of the right lane?

[jeffs]

Katman I commute. I do no go on the road thinking, god I look cool riding. As a matter of fact I wear a orange hi-vis vest on dry days, and if its pissing down a wear a REALLY BRIGHT Orange Hi-vis Rain jacket. So I for one can never be accused of trying to look bike cool.

I make the " I commute " statement, because that is what I do, I go from my home to my work, or from my work to customers. I travel day, night, rain, sun.. Mostly on motorways. All I want to do is get from A to B. I choose a bike because I can get through Auckland traffic jams, as opposed to adding to the traffic jams.

I get stuck behind slower riders all the time. I do not say slow, I say slower. I don't care if they ride faster or slower, What bothers me is riders who do not look behind .. EVER.

Ones that look behind, if caught generally move over ( including me ). It's the one that have no awareness that there is a behind them that rial me.

And this thread show that some people don't look back.

Going around a car that is traveling in the RH lane on the outside works on open road, but not on a motorway. So it is very important to be aware of what is around you because no one else can pass if you are blocking.

All I ask is people ride to their skills and if overtaken don't speed up and ride to the overtakers skills or lack of, or you put more than yourselves at risk.

[p.dath]

I have no problem with people who can't split fast but don't force me to go 30km because you think that's fast enough.

Touche. I have no problem with people who want to split faster, but don't force me to go faster because you think it is too slow. :)

[Swoop]

p.s. are you saying you actually have had the experience of seeing 8 other bikes being held up mid-split?
Likewise. I have seen it several times. 5-7 bikes being held up normally happens in summertime when the fair-weather riders come out.

This is quite similar to the right hand lane and 4-wheel vehicles who "have" to drive in that lane. Others approach from behind and are effectively blocked. "Mabel" doing 85 in the fast lane does not attract the attention of the plod for "failure to keep left" though.



The fun time was in a filtering procession of 6 bikes, with a bikie cop at the front! He wasn't nana-ing along either!

[madbikeboy]

I'm not the danger, I simply find another safer route than being boxed in or filter past the slow coach.

Danger comes from behind is the reference to dumb assed cagers sitting in cars behind not paying attention...

[madbikeboy]

Unfortunately, (even though they'll never admit it) one of the things foremost in the mind of the faster lane splitters is imagining, as they go past, that the slower rider is sitting there thinking "Wow, look at them go. They must be a far better rider than me".

It's all about giving the learn and ego stroking.


Acutally, it's about not being boxed in with dopey car drivers not paying attention to me and scoot. Get rear ended a couple of times and then talk to me about it.

[Katman]

Get rear ended a couple of times and then talk to me about it.

Need I remind you Mike? There's not much you can teach me about lane splitting.

[Katman]

Acutally, it's about not being boxed in with dopey car drivers not paying attention to me and scoot. Get rear ended a couple of times and then talk to me about it.

Methinks you doth protest too much Mike.

If you're behind a slower lane splitter then you're still in that channel between the lines of cars and still travelling at a faster speed than those cars. Not a lot of chance of being hit from behind by a car given those circumstances.

[Hawkeye]

Good comment Katman, I do :)

Riders should assess the "slower rider" in front and if it is obvious they are not looking behind, ie you can not see them looking in their mirrors, don't get pissed off.
In a three lane motorway go around. But I would advise against this on a 2 lane motorway as there is no way around without putting every one else at risk.


Don't fixate on the bike ahead, or you will miss the other dangers around you, then you become the problem. " I crashed because there was a slow bike in front on me" does not hold much water.

However, in a 3 lane, what invariably happens is that someone splitting on the left 'splitting' lane causes the cages in the middle lane to move right as they see a bike coming up in their left mirror (if they are awake) causing the right splitting lane to close.
This regularly happend on the Gorge in Welly. Bikes splitting in convoy down the right lane suddenly find the squeeze because someone has shot across to the left to get passed.

What annoys me more than anything is the splitters that don't check their mirrors. I split at what I consider to be a safe pace. I am constantly scanning ahead for the squeeze and pay special attention when approaching gaps. When I come up behind a slower rider, I will sit a couple of lengths back until the bike in front has reached a gap that they could quite easily drop into to let me passed.
If however they don't move into the gap that highlights to me that they are so hell bent on watching forward, they have no idea of what is happening behind them. At that point I will move in closer, drop the clutch and give them a wake up call. Then I drop back slightly and repeat the exercise of waiting until the next gap.
It's more about letting them know that there is a faster rider behind and giving them time to move over.
And I always give them the thumbs up after they move over to let me passed.

[Katman]

However, in a 3 lane, what invariably happens is that someone splitting on the left 'splitting' lane causes the cages in the middle lane to move right as they see a bike coming up in their left mirror (if they are awake) causing the right splitting lane to close.


And exactly the same thing happens in reverse for the people splitting to the left of the centre lane when people split on the right.

But that's alright - you keep clutching those straws to justify your ego-stroking. :msn-wink:

[Hawkeye]

And exactly the same thing happens in reverse for the people splitting to the left of the centre lane when people split on the right.

But that's alright - you keep clutching at straws to justify your ego-stroking. :msn-wink:

What the f%$k are you smoking Katman. What ego-stroking? Ego is the one thing I don't have on a bike. Ego gets you in trouble far too easily and anyone that has ridden with me will tell you I ride well within my capability.
All I've done it point out the domino effect. Yes you are correct in that splitting in the right affects the left. But if the norm is to split in the right by 95% then the 5% who do it the opposite way have an affect.

[madbikeboy]

I can teach the back wheel only lanesplitting technique...

(Take a deep breath Steve, I'm just winding you up mate...).

EDIT - has anyone noticed that sometimes when you quote, the original quote doesn't stick to the new post? To keep this in context Katman - this was a retort to your comment about not being able to teach the master of London traffic about lanesplitting...