Northern Gateway Toll Road.

[cruiserboy]

Hi Everyone .
Had this thought over the weekend when I saw an advertisment in one of my local papers that from the 1 June 2010 motorcyclists travelling on the toll road ( though the tunnels ) will pay $ 2 each way .
I thought it would be great if there was an organised ride ( maybe a charity ride for say the Westpac Helicopter or St Johns ) on the last sunday of the month May 30th .
Ride would need a start point and say go to Puhoi.

If there is not something being organised already I guess it just needs someone or a club to start the ball rollling.

Be interested to see what others think.

[R6_kid]

Apart from raising some money for a charity I don't really see the point?

To use the road one last time before they start charging us? I've been through there three times on the bike now and there isn't really anything special about it - if I'm going that way I usually take SH16 or the 'interesting' old SH1 route anyway.

[Mom]

Hi Everyone .
Had this thought over the weekend when I saw an advertisment in one of my local papers that from the 1 June 2010 motorcyclists travelling on the toll road ( though the tunnels ) will pay $ 2 each way .
I thought it would be great if there was an organised ride ( maybe a charity ride for say the Westpac Helicopter or St Johns ) on the last sunday of the month May 30th .
Ride would need a start point and say go to Puhoi.

If there is not something being organised already I guess it just needs someone or a club to start the ball rollling.

Be interested to see what others think.

I like this idea :yes: Interestingly enough we have an ACC protest ride planned for May 29th, maybe we could swing past the toll road and instead of pay $2 to the man we give the proceeds to Westpac Helicopter. it is their appeal month this month anyway. Our last protest ride raised $290 for Rape Crisis we should be able to get close to that. Hmmmmmmm, will pass this idea along to the Auckland Action Group for consideration.

[firefighter]

Maybe dragging chains behind our bikes to somehow contribute a bit of damage to the road that a car does. After all, we are going to be charged at the same rate. I think a good protest on this would be to get all of us lined up at the machines, one bike parked behind the other , gear off, pay, move forward, next person. Do'nt let any cager push in unless they're over 60. (respect your elders) And go round and around clogging up the whole road. Maybe on a public holiday, that'll really fuck things up. The whole time we ride in such a way that we are taking up the same space as a car.....we'd have bikes lined up down the road it would be nuts.......(and a public holiday is congested anyway so the traffic will hardly be moving)

I know it's a shit road for bikes anyway, I ride around the area often and know that the alternate ways are far more fun. But it's the principle of it.

[Ixion]

Why foff around. One bike, plate obscured, rider anoymous in black leather and face shield. Credit card in slot. Oh bugger, machine won't recognise it. Fact that it's actually an expired phone card covered in super glue is irrelevant. Damn machine, Return to bike, ride off. Best done at the Waiwera booth, other one is inside , prolly more cameras.

If questions be asked ,and they DO find the rider - easy enough, No, it genuinely didn't work when I tried it, I gues it must ahve already been bolloxed. Disgusting, issn't .

[Sis]

Wouldn't it be best to do this on the Saturday of Queens Birthday weekend, when everyone is trying to get out of town?
It will be the first weekend, since the toll came into effect.

[Mom]

Why foff around. One bike, plate obscured, rider anoymous in black leather and face shield. Credit card in slot. Oh bugger, machine won't recognise it. Fact that it's actually an expired phone card covered in super glue is irrelevant. Damn machine, Return to bike, ride off. Best done at the Waiwera booth, other one is inside , prolly more cameras.

If questions be asked ,and they DO find the rider - easy enough, No, it genuinely didn't work when I tried it, I gues it must ahve already been bolloxed. Disgusting, issn't .

I completely disassociate myself from this suggested action. In fact on behalf of the AAG I distance us from it as well.

[davereid]

I completely disassociate myself from this suggested action. In fact on behalf of the AAG I distance us from it as well.

I think Ix is joking... he is thinking of the good old days when bikers actually DID do bad shit, instead of now-a-days when the average biker is nicer than my mum. Who actually was a biker in the old days. If that helps.

[cruiserboy]

Hey I in NO WAY would condon any illegall action as some posts have suggested. I just had in mind a sort of silent protest with a large group of like minded people. Surely a large group of bikes just before the road is tolled for motorcycllists must say something to the powers that be. If only it P....s them off with all the revenue they just missed out on.

The idea of a charity ride for the likes of the Rescue Helicopter or St Johns was because , and i hope for everyone that they never need them but if it all turns to CUSTARD one day you may just need these people in a big hurry.

Keep the positive thoughts coming.

[Ferkletastic]

We've got way more important issues to protest than a $2 toll. New cheesecutters going up all the time, ACC being slowly (actually pretty quickly really) dismantled and driver education problems seeing more and more of us getting squashed, but no, lets whinge about a $2 toll for a road that there are two much more fun alternatives to anyway.

Seriously, somebody explain exactly why just because I ride a motorcycle I shouldn't have to pay the same cost to receive the exact same benefit as a car?

Or is this just the latest thing to bitch about for five minutes?

[RiderInBlack]

Could have this thread merged with " Northern Gateway - motorbikes to pay $2 like a car (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/90508-Northern-Gateway-motorbikes-to-pay-2-like-a-car) "

[breakaway]

Just make sure to pay by phone every time you use the toll road. It costs them $2.70 to process it apparently as per a document released by them. Kiosks cost 64 cents, and internet payments cost them 13 cents. :)

[buellbabe]

I actually received a letter from Land Transport informing about the motorcycle toll as apparently I am "a frequent user"...in other words I use it when I'm in my car and I have an account. I calculate that I have used it a total of 10 times...gee that makes me a frequent user? LOL
Oh well never mind, as far as being charged $2 to take my bike on that stretch of road my response is this ...big whoopdy shit! I don't use it when I'm on my bike so it makes no difference to me anyway! I prefer the more interesting scenic route...

[Ixion]

Like most, I seldom use it, so don't personally much care.

But it is worth noting that someone who DOES use it (eg someone who commutes every day by bike - is there anyone such left but me?) might care. Because the extra cost actually makes the ACC levy hike seem small biscuits.

$2 each way , 5 days a wekk, equals $20 a week, over $1000 a year. Much more than the increase in ACC levies. And for a commuter the "go the long way round , it's more fun" is not so good an argument. he just wants to get to work as quickly as possible
,br/> So it is not really that the decision is less significant than ACC, it's just it doesn't hit as many bikers.

[buellbabe]

There are heaps of bike commuters (I'm one of them!) but seriously are there ANY that commute daily on the toll road?

I'm curious...

Really its just another backlash directed towards bikers, somehow we seemed to have lost some of that public sympathy that we had... through our loud protest actions we really put ourselves in the public eye and so now we are being scrutinised and joe bloggs who probably never paid any attention to bikes/bikers before is now very much aware and saying "hey! why should those arrogant law breaking motorcyclists(some pretty public incidents recently) get something for free?"

And when I say arrogant law breaking motorcyclists its because thats how a lot of the public see us...unfortunately.

Freedom, be it of choice or of spirit (the latter is what riding a bike does for me!) always has a price...sigh...

[Maha]

Motorbikes were always going to end up paying on the Toll rd.
When it opened, and the signs went up explaining payment etc, at the very top was a picture of a bike and the amount to pay $0.00
All they have to do now is replace the 0 with a 2.

[Swoop]

But it is worth noting that someone who DOES use it (eg someone who commutes every day by bike - is there anyone such left but me?) might care. Because the extra cost actually makes the ACC levy hike seem small biscuits.
It also sends a signal to "the authorities" that charging a toll for bikers can be done. A nasty precedent for future areas that will attract a charge/toll system (bridges, roads, etc).

[RiderInBlack]

Use it every time I have somewhere important ta get to South of Dorkland as the quickest way ta get me there. As a Norf Rider, I have ta pass through Dorkland ta get to anywhere else. Would happy pay a toll that meant I could by-pass Dorkland all together. Sadly there isn't one. As for this Toll road they can get f*cked. Had they made it $1 for bikes then ok, but same as cars, get knotted. They have tried this sort of thing in other Countries, but have not got away with it, because the Riders there have not stood for it.
Just one more Government group screwing Bikes because we are too weak as a group to have a strong enough voice. Think I'll just start carrying Vaseline when I'm riding, so it doesn't hurt as much when the next Government group decide to ream Riders.

[firefighter]

Just one more Government group screwing Bikes because we are too weak as a group to have a strong enough voice.Think I'll just start carrying Vaseline when I'm riding, so it doesn't hurt as much when the next Government group decide to ream Riders.

Good call. What's with all the fluffy "we do'nt condone this" and "do'nt be naughty snookums" shit going on? If we are so much seem as thugs.......and will be either way, we may as well fucken act like it.

It's only $2, but it's the principle of the thing. Yes there's always going to be more important shit going on, but what's wrong with getting a bit more aggressive when it comes to standing up for ourselves. None of the pre-lubed ass in the air and mouth open "lets try not cause any trouble just be noisy" tactics has worked.....surely changing tactics might be a good idea. Not exactly promoting a riot obviously, but a little bit of sabotage here and there could be interesting!

I completely condone and back anyone who glues up the slots in the machines! I think it's a stellar idea!

[nallac]

But it is worth noting that someone who DOES use it (eg someone who commutes every day by bike - is there anyone such left but me?) might care. Because the extra cost actually makes the ACC levy hike seem small biscuits.


Thers lots of us who commute to work daily on our bikes..well i wouldn't call it a commute more like a thrash.......


There are heaps of bike commuters (I'm one of them!) but seriously are there ANY that commute daily on the toll road?


a workmate commutes thru it everyday..well three days a week on our current shifts was doing it 5 days on our prevouis shifts.




I completely condone and back anyone who glues up the slots in the machines! I think it's a stellar idea!

Yip well said.....

[RiderInBlack]

Time ta fit the Flip Up Number Plate I think.

So what I really have ta say here is where is our "Voice" in all this? What is BRONZ done/doing? Every since the ACC/Nick's Myth issue I have joined BRONZ. Why because I thought with more members BRONZ might be a stronger Political Voice. I hope they have but I am yet to see real results of that. Know ya Guys & Girls have been working hard, but have those that you have been dealing with really listened to ya? How can the average rider like myself help BRONZ have a strong voice? If BRONZ is not interested in having a Stronger voice, is there a Group out there willing to Stand Up for Biker rights and not willing ta pussy foot with those aiming to diminish them?

[Ferkletastic]

Yeah it'll add up if you're commuting every day, the same way it adds up for cars and trucks. Again, why are bikes so special that we shouldn't have to pay?

We're not being singled out here, it's not a case of the big bad govt picking on poor lil bikers, we're just being made to pay for the same thing that car drivers have to pay for.

All this internet tough guy bullshit about gluing the slots (although I'm pretty sure Les was taking the piss with that one) etc is lame as hell.

[Ixion]

There's actually a very good reason why bikes shouldn't pay

Road tolls are not really to pay for the road (work out how long it would take at $2 minus collection costs).



They are actually a part of a recognised government strategy of road pricing, which in turn is part of a strategy of Travel Demand Management. (Google it)

This, in effect, says that we can't afford enough roads. So, the roads get congested . So, if we make using roads more expensive, then the demand will be reduced. Thus solving the congestion problem without the cost of new roads.

But- bikes don't contribute bugger all to the congestion. So why should we pay what is really a congestion tax, designed to mitigate the congestion we don't cause? Congestion is caused by cars and trucks. So cars and trucks should pay for it.

[Maha]

There's actually a very good reason why bikes shouldn't pay

Road tolls are not really to pay for the road (work out how long it would take at $2 minus collection costs).



They are actually a part of a recognised government strategy of road pricing, which in turn is part of a strategy of Travel Demand Management. (Google it)

This, in effect, says that we can't afford enough roads. So, the roads get congested . So, if we make using roads more expensive, then the demand will be reduced. Thus solving the congestion problem without the cost of new roads.

But- bikes don't contribute bugger all to the congestion. So why should we pay what is really a congestion tax, designed to mitigate the congestion we don't cause? Congestion is caused by cars and trucks. So cars and trucks should pay for it.

Correct, so use another route because the toll will be introduced and theres nothing we can do about it.

Figures say on average, 51,000 trips were made by bikes to Dec' 31st last year...so please, do the math.
On those figures alone, I would say bikes love the toll road and most will continue to use it.
A handful of KBers wont granted.

[firefighter]

Yeah it'll add up if you're commuting every day, the same way it adds up for cars and trucks. Again, why are bikes so special that we shouldn't have to pay?

You did'nt specifically mention my post, but i'll clarify my thoughts on it.

My problem is not that we have to pay, it's the fact that we have to pay the same as a car. We do'nt get the luxury of causing as much damage to the road, causing as much congestion. taking up as much space, or taking up as much parking space, in a nice warm comfy car whilst sipping a coffee........plus there's the inconvenience of the bike, being wind, rain and safety, carrying around your gear........ plus of course the conveniences you miss out on, yet we are expected to pay the same fee.....when we take up less space, weigh 1/10th of a car and are a solution to traffic woes....

Do'nt forget, motorcycles are actually a solution to traffic problems and all the issues that go along with it, and it would be damn nice if G'ment would support us a little bit, instead of descrimminating against us (ACC) and not giving us any encouragement or perks of being part of a solution.

Other countries actually support the use of motorbikes and make special provisions for bikes because they recognise the good aspects of it.

That is what my issue is, that we pay the same, but we are'nt the same. Just like you have to pay more for a trailer, or a truck, you should have to pay more for a car.

[munster]

Just make sure to pay by phone every time you use the toll road. It costs them $2.70 to process it apparently as per a document released by them. Kiosks cost 64 cents, and internet payments cost them 13 cents. :)

Great idea (and one I posted on NZHerald website when this was announced).

I reckon the protest ride should be rescheduled till after it comes into effect and then we all pay by mobile phone.

[chasio]

How's this as a variant protest and best of all it can be done by anyone, anytime. You don't even need to use the toll road and it's a free call.

After tolls start, just ring them up and say you used it a few days ago. They ask for your plate. You could tell them yours or make one up (but that would be fibbing and I don't condone fibbing). They say - no record of that plate. You say "My mistake, maybe I went the other way instead. I was pretty tired that day (or off my face on coke and getting head off a gymnast-turned-cheap hooker at the time / whatever you like). Sorry to trouble you. Bye!".

Cost to them: > $2.00
Cost to you: $0.00.

In fact we could even start ringing then up NOW, giving them the plate and being told there is no fee to pay, then saying "my mistake, I thought we had to pay these days. Bye!".

If they're too daft to be reading this thread it might even mess with their minds a bit, but surely they're all over it (evening numpties).

The number is 0800 40 20 20, open 8am to 6pm

What do you reckon?

Chasio

Edit: Adjusted the cost to them down from $2.70 as I relaised there will be no credit card handling fee to pay, just the free call plus call centre costs

[RiderInBlack]

Some bikes have their Plates mounted on the side instead of on the back. Is that Legal, and would the cameras be able to pick it up and read it well enough?:innocent:

[eliot-ness]

Correct, so use another route because the toll will be introduced and theres nothing we can do about it..

It would seem that biker's, and car drivers, have missed an important statement to the effect that, due to lack of funding, the extention from Puhoi to Warkworth and beyond, the next stage of highway1 will most likely to be tolled. Now it may be correct that we have an alternative route for now, but that will soon change. How many commuters would driive or ride via Woodcocks and H16. I wuld suggest that the reason for adding the tolls to bikes is simply that it will become profitable when that comes about. It's unlikely that the cost will remain at $2 for a car for the whole distance so expect more price hikes when work starts.

[chasio]

I must have missed that memo. If that is done such that there is no reasonable alternative, I believe it won't only be bikers that will be up for some proper protest.

[Grant81]

Just another F----- tax on us,Yes, Definitely pay by phone after using toll rd, My pack rack hangs over my plate, bugger other wise I'm riding the scenic route tried to make a submission against tolling but the paperwork and lodging was too difficult which I guess they wanted it that way.
PS, all the road tax's Ive paid in my life and they finally build a road that is of real use to me and they add a special toll tax
Sorry folks, just had to get it off my chest.

Grant / Warkworth

[Grant81]

Great idea, pay by phone, better still start phoneing now to make inquiries about these future tax's as I have
Its going to be FAR more cost effective for us to ride the senic route but not quite so time efficent adding 8-10 minutes I guess.

[coppepa]

Agree we should do some thing but why not more of a protest after the $2 charge starts. A hundred or so bikers after going through the tunnel towards Puhoi would then have to turn right into the pay booths. We would have to take helmets, gloves off to open leathers to try and find $2 pay and then put our kit back on again. Guess to comply with the law may cause a little congestion.

[Maha]

Agree we should do some thing but why not more of a protest after the $2 charge starts. A hundred or so bikers after going through the tunnel towards Puhoi would then have to turn right into the pay booths. We would have to take helmets, gloves off to open leathers to try and find $2 pay and then put our kit back on again. Guess to comply with the law may cause a little congestion.

Nows theres a thinking Man!
All the bitching and carry on so far?
One brilliant idea from a 6 post member.
Wonderful stuff coppepa!

[Pixie]

There's actually a very good reason why bikes shouldn't pay

Road tolls are not really to pay for the road (work out how long it would take at $2 minus collection costs).



They are actually a part of a recognised government strategy of road pricing, which in turn is part of a strategy of Travel Demand Management. (Google it)

This, in effect, says that we can't afford enough roads. So, the roads get congested . So, if we make using roads more expensive, then the demand will be reduced. Thus solving the congestion problem without the cost of new roads.

But- bikes don't contribute bugger all to the congestion. So why should we pay what is really a congestion tax, designed to mitigate the congestion we don't cause? Congestion is caused by cars and trucks. So cars and trucks should pay for it.

So cause some congestion.
You will have paid your $2 to assuage any guilt you may feel,so get 20 bikes together and ride up the tollway at 20kmh a few times.
It's your right as a paying customer of the Northern Gateway.

[Bald Eagle]

Heres an example of their thinking from the Greater Wellington Council

TDM measures also seek to modify travel behaviour and mode choice decisions so as to reduce the negative impacts of car use. Measures include road network management tools, land use policies, behaviour change tools, economic pricing measures and new technology.

They seem to have missed the point that reducing negative impacts of car use is easily achieved by encouraging motorbike use. :lol:

I just searched the Wellington Regional Travel Demand Management Plan (http://www.gw.govt.nz/assets/Transport/Regional-transport/RLTS/RegionalTDMPlan2009.PDF) and the word Motorcycle does not appear in it anywhere.Seems we don't exist.

[Pixie]

I must have missed that memo. If that is done such that there is no reasonable alternative, I believe it won't only be bikers that will be up for some proper protest.

Welcome friend from another dimension.
What is life like in your alternate NZ where the populace have spines?

[Ixion]

So cause some congestion.
You will have paid your $2 to assuage any guilt you may feel,so get 20 bikes together and ride up the tollway at 20kmh a few times.
It's your right as a paying customer of the Northern Gateway.

No-one is interested.

[chasio]

Welcome friend from another dimension.
What is life like in your alternate NZ where the populace have spines?

I like it here :) It's nice to pop over and see y'all every now and again, though.