How bad is the NZ road toll really?

[SS90]

A conversation yesterday afternoon lead to a bit of research just now.

I wanted to compare the NZ road deaths to the Austrian road deaths (given that the open road speed in most of Europe is 130 km/h (excluding of course Germany's Autobahn), and NZ has 100 km/h (and NZ's roading system (mostly comprises of what you would term here as "Land Straße" (essentially not a motorway)

It's not what I expected, given that there are just over 8 million people in Austria, and 4 million in NZ.

http://www.austriantimes.at/news/General_News/2010-03-23/21833/Road_death_toll_down


http://www.nzta.govt.nz/resources/road-deaths/toll.html

[davereid]

We give the road toll a lot of attention... perhaps its because we all blame the other fellow, and its easy to tax and police. But more kiwis die from DIY. 200 a year die from falls alone.

Better make NZ safer, and give the families a ticket.

Ref :
http://www.voxy.co.nz/national/home-injuries-take-73-canterbury-lives-last-year/5/23258

Monday, 7 September, 2009 - 09:04

Latest statistics from ACC provide shocking evidence that New Zealanders are not taking home safety seriously. Last year more than 650,000 people were injured in their homes and 573 of those people died as a result. In Canterbury alone, there were more than 81,000 home injuries costing $80 million.

[SS90]

Yes, it wold seem when it comes to vehicle related deaths (and remembering most of NZ roads lack the "safety barrier" and motorway provides), Kiwi's road deaths it would seem are no different to other countries, half a world away, that can legally go faster.

[davereid]

I bet we do a lot more miles and have higher rates of vehicle ownership too. Many European cities are ancient, narrow street affairs that lend themselves nicely to public transport. In NZ we built low density housing, and (thank the lord) don't use public transport - we all like to get here on the bike or in the car.

[Dave Lobster]

Is there every going to be an acceptable road toll?
Is 100 a year low enough? How about 3000? Does it really make a difference unless you know one of the people?

[BiK3RChiK]

Better watch out if you are in the Central District of NZ now... You are being targetted by 'hidden' camera's. Although they were targetting speeding drivers, they said on the News item, that inattentive drivers were the ones causing accidents. Kind of didn't make sense to me. But there ya go!...

[pzkpfw]

I used to work at Motor Reg. (MANY years ago).

The internal newsletter used to have a line like:

"Year to date road toll : 200. Target for the year : 300."

[CookMySock]

It must be pretty fucking terrible, because there's a multi-billion-dollar industry being built around it, providing tens of millions of dollars income for the government! :shit:

Steve

[Tank]

given that the open road speed in most of Europe is 130 km/h

The funny think with numbers is that people them to reflect their own views.

The speed limit is NOT 130kph in Europe.

In France the Motorway limit is 130 - but the 'open road' limit (being roads like our very own SW1 - being one lane each way for most of it) is only 90kph (or 80 if its wet). In the UK the single carriageway (one lane each way) is 60MPH (100kphish), Even Germany is only 100kph once off the motorway. Spain 90 to 100kph, Italy 90kph. (again on like for like roads).

Perhaps if NZ had motorways like some in Europe (and we never will) - then we could have limits to match - but the upshot is that they just arnt that different.

[Dave Lobster]

The funny think with numbers is that people them to reflect their own views.

The speed limit is NOT 130kph in Europe.

In France the Motorway limit is 130 - but the 'open road' limit (being roads like our very own SW1 - being one lane each way for most of it) is only 90kph (or 80 if its wet). In the UK the single carriageway (one lane each way) is 60MPH (100kphish), Even Germany is only 100kph once off the motorway. Spain 90 to 100kph, Italy 90kph. (again on like for like roads).

Perhaps if NZ had motorways like some in Europe (and we never will) - then we could have limits to match - but the upshot is that they just arnt that different.

But they're not enforced with such blind vigour. If traffic is flowing nicely, the police wont nick everyone for 'speeding'.
I've travelled on the M25 where the 'average' speed of the traffic was in the region of 120mph. Regularly travelled on the M40 being the slowest thing on the road at 90mph. Speeds in excess of 100mph on the A9 (single lane) in Scotland.

You can't compare Europe with here. The skillsets of drivers here are completely different to those of european drivers.

[scumdog]

The tally?

Frikkin' bad!!

Especially since most fatals aren't 'accidents' - they're mainly caused by fuckwittedness and should be preventable..

[avgas]

The tally?
Frikkin' bad!!
Especially since most fatals aren't 'accidents' - they're mainly caused by fuckwittedness and should be preventable..
Yeah but apparently abortions are bad

[Marmoot]

I wanted to compare the NZ road deaths to the Austrian road deaths (given that the open road speed in most of Europe is 130 km/h (excluding of course Germany's Autobahn), and NZ has 100 km/h

Very simple really.

With 23% slower speed in NZ (100km/h vs. 130km/h), the drivers would spend 23% more time on the road due to the slower travel. This leads to 23% increased risk of accident happening, since accident risk presents when you are on the road. Notwithstanding any anomalies, in normal situation the odds of accidents happening per capita would be 23% higher, so the number of accidents per capita would be 23% higher.

Now, if we look at the population size, NZ has 4 million while Austria has around 8 million.
So NZ in reality has half of Austrian population.

Applying the 23% higher accident per capita, we end up with a total number or accident that is 38% lower than the total Austrian number of accident, or in other words a total number of accident in NZ would be 62% of the total number of accidents in Austria.
For example, if in a given year Austria has 100 accidents, we would have 62 accidents. This higher-than-half number is despite our population being only half of Austria.

This is assuming all other factors are constant.
For example: "To err is human", and since "Human NZ = Human Austria" (equality, remember?) then "Err% chance NZ would equal Err% chance Austria".

So, the most effective way to beat Austrian accident risk is to increase the NZ speedlimit to reduce the amount each driver spend on the road. Less time on the road = less chance of accident happening.

Now, to the next issue: How to survive the higher speed if accidents inevitably happens.....(watch this space.....keep watching....)

[Tank]

But they're not enforced with such blind vigour. If traffic is flowing nicely, the police wont nick everyone for 'speeding'.

Thats the 'good 'ol days' - these days they dont need to police them - its all done by cameras (and worse), average speed cameras (calculating your speed over x period) - hell they have one camera that clicked over 38,000 'speeders' placed where the motorway reverts to a dual-carriageway and is subject to a 50mph limit.

You do 100 MPH now - And I really cannot believe that you would not get pulled over.

[Tank]

You can't compare Europe with here. The skillsets of drivers here are completely different to those of european drivers.

A lot of Europe are considerably worse drivers than NZ - by a margin. Its not all driving Gods from Germany - you get Polacks who have never gone over 20km in their car or people from Portugal who simply scare teh shit out of you on the roads over there.

[Ixion]

Well, let's get a bit of perspective here.

There were 29,188 deaths registered in New Zealand in the year ended December 2008 (gubbermint figures). Of those, 366 were "road" deaths.

So , the odds are 98.8% percent probability that whatever kills you WON'T be a road crash.

Seems to me that we (as a country) are doing an almighty amount of chest beating and angst about the 1% , and yawning past the 99%. There are probably more people die in NZ each year because of the pollution caused by vehicles, than die of road crashes by said vehicles (says the guy who rides a two smoker!).

Personally, dying in a road crash doesn't figure even remotely high on my list of daily worries.

[Rogue Rider]

The funny think with numbers is that people them to reflect their own views.

The speed limit is NOT 130kph in Europe.

In France the Motorway limit is 130 - but the 'open road' limit (being roads like our very own SW1 - being one lane each way for most of it) is only 90kph (or 80 if its wet). In the UK the single carriageway (one lane each way) is 60MPH (100kphish), Even Germany is only 100kph once off the motorway. Spain 90 to 100kph, Italy 90kph. (again on like for like roads).

Perhaps if NZ had motorways like some in Europe (and we never will) - then we could have limits to match - but the upshot is that they just arnt that different.


We could have motorway roads like europe, infact we do through the cities.... SH1 in my view should be a 4 lane highway from north cape to bluff. Hell I'd ride up and down it all the time, maybe, though they are a bit boring.......... actually no I wouldn't, I'd more likely go the scenic twisty routes...... and leave the cops to police the motorways.......

Toll roads suck by the way, $2 should cover the whole road from auck to cape reinga..... not 6kms.

[Tank]

We could have motorway roads like europe, infact we do through the cities....

Even thru the cities - they are not as good as the 8 lanes each way of Europe (which are generally constructed out of better materials also BTW)

Given the cost required making the northern gateway a toll road (and taking a predicted 35 years to pay off) for 9km ish of road - how do you propose (realistically) that NZ could fund European type motorways?

[Tank]

Just working this out.

365 million for 7.5 km (northern gateway) = 48 mil per km.

Lets round it down to 25 mil as we dont need tunnels / viaducts everywhere. Its about 456 from the cape to Dury - so that Equals $11,400,000,000 - yep 11.4 billion dollars.

If we want cape to bluff as you suggested = $50,000,000,000 (2000km).

Thats a lot of peanuts

[Bald Eagle]

Even thru the cities - they are not as good as the 8 lanes each way of Europe (which are generally constructed out of better materials also BTW)

Given the cost required making the northern gateway a toll road (and taking a predicted 35 years to pay off) for 9km ish of road - how do you propose (realistically) that NZ could fund European type motorways?

Cheaper to keep stringing the pot-holes together and calling them State highways, just like knitting really and holes are cheaper than roads.

[Dave Lobster]

A lot of Europe are considerably worse drivers than NZ - by a margin. Its not all driving Gods from Germany - you get Polacks who have never gone over 20km in their car or people from Portugal who simply scare teh shit out of you on the roads over there.

But there aren't so many of them over there. We have about 1/3 of the population of Auckland who have only just migrated from horse and trap getting licences in their corn flakes.

[Tank]

But there aren't so many of them over there. We have about 1/3 of the population of Auckland who have only just migrated from horse and trap getting licences in their corn flakes.

I dont know how long it has been since you have been over there - but there are cities in the UK where being English is the minority.

[scumdog]

Personally, dying in a road crash doesn't figure even remotely high on my list of daily worries.

Same here 'cos dead is dead.

Now being made a tetraplegic DOES feature.......

[Dave Lobster]

I dont know how long it has been since you have been over there - but there are cities in the UK where being English is the minority.

Not long enough. Most places beginning with B in the north. And Leicester/Birmingham and London.

[Brian d marge]

but those deaths and injuries cost NZ health and hence the government a lot of money.

Watch how quiclkly they wouldny care if it was privatized. Which is what they want to do ( You ever get the feeling they are working as a team , lairbor sets it up national completes!)

We have private insurance here , cheap works for me , and sod all road safety campaigns ( a 20 lecture when u get ur licence

Stephen

PS NEVER LET THE AMERICAN MODEL BECOME THE NORM NEVER !!!!!!!

[Ixion]

Same here 'cos dead is dead.

Now being made a tetraplegic DOES feature.......

If that were a general concern, Rugby would be illegal.

[Ixion]

I researched this a bit further. In NZ, there are about 8000 people have a stroke each year (excluding "mini-strokes" TIAs) . Which (if it doesn't kill you), likely leaves you in a similar case to a MVA spinal injury. (figures from the Stoke Society)

In comparison, we have about 1500 serious spinal injuries per year (figures from 'Catwalk Trust') . Of which, about 40% are motor vehicle related (probably not all road related - eg MotoX and quads). That's about 600.

So, you should be 13 times more worried about being left in a wheelchair from a stroke , than being left in a wheelchair from a MVA.

Like I said - motor vehicle accidenst should be well down the worry list. Spend your worry time worrying about the things that are most likely to bugger you. Raod crashes aren't in that list.

[firefighter]

Yes, it wold seem when it comes to vehicle related deaths (and remembering most of NZ roads lack the "safety barrier" and motorway provides), Kiwi's road deaths it would seem are no different to other countries, half a world away, that can legally go faster. on safer more well constructed roads

Just needed to finish that sentence for ya.

Our limit will never go over 100 because;

A) We have too many retards who would'nt be capable of handling an increase in speed.
B) We have limited roads where you could actually limit the speed to over 100.
C) Our roads are not in as good a condition, or as well built. Before we even thought about increasing our speed minit, removing off-camber corners would need to be done. That costs money.

[Dave Lobster]

Spend your worry time worrying about the things that are most likely to bugger you. Raod crashes aren't in that list.

Priests? :shit:

[Ixion]

Priests? :shit:

Honda riders !

[Usarka]

We give the road toll a lot of attention... perhaps its because we all blame the other fellow, and its easy to tax and police. But more kiwis die from DIY. 200 a year die from falls alone.

Better make NZ safer, and give the families a ticket.

ACC levies at Bunnings :niceone:

[SS90]

The funny think with numbers is that people them to reflect their own views.

The speed limit is NOT 130kph in Europe.

In France the Motorway limit is 130 - but the 'open road' limit (being roads like our very own SW1 - being one lane each way for most of it) is only 90kph (or 80 if its wet). In the UK the single carriageway (one lane each way) is 60MPH (100kphish), Even Germany is only 100kph once off the motorway. Spain 90 to 100kph, Italy 90kph. (again on like for like roads).

Perhaps if NZ had motorways like some in Europe (and we never will) - then we could have limits to match - but the upshot is that they just arnt that different.

I have lived here for 4 years Tank (Germany,Italy and Austria),and have covered countless kilometers in those years. About 90% of the countries here have a limit of 130 (on the motorways), and maximum of 100 on the inland routes.

Europe's motorway system is the most comprehensive in the world, as far as speed limits go, the slowest (motorway) speed limit is 90 (Norway), and pretty much every one else has a motorway speed of 120, or 130 km/h.

[SS90]

Just needed to finish that sentence for ya.

Our limit will never go over 100 because;

A) We have too many retards who would'nt be capable of handling an increase in speed.
B) We have limited roads where you could actually limit the speed to over 100.
C) Our roads are not in as good a condition, or as well built. Before we even thought about increasing our speed minit, removing off-camber corners would need to be done. That costs money.

Granted, the roads here are better constructed than NZ, with out a doubt (but, when it come to road quality, I would say Italy has the best (It's privatised by the way), followed by Germany (free for all cars, only trucks pay), I am not advocating increasing the speed limit, not at all, but I am left wondering if the "evil NZ road toll" is as bad as they would have us believe.

I used to think (because I was raised in NZ), that we must have a bad reputation when it come to road deaths, because it was always in the news.

It would seem that is incorrect, or at least "with-in international standards" (as far as statistics are concerned)

You hear the "highest Easter road toll in 5 years" reports on the news, then, you (later) find out that 3 people died. Last year there was 2.

about 350 people die on NZ roads a year, basically, an average of one a day.

How many people die from pleasure boating per year?

[firefighter]

You hear the "highest Easter road toll in 5 years" reports on the news, then, you (later) find out that 3 people died. Last year there was 2.

about 350 people die on NZ roads a year, basically, an average of one a day.


I agree with everything else you said, but this was a bad easter this year. It truely was a really high amount. We had more than Australia IIRC. (not per capita, in total, that IS bad)

[Whynot]

I think that one of the main reasons it seems so bad in NZ is the fact that most of the time there is no other news .... so thats all we hear about.

here's some good figures

link
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate)

[SS90]

I agree with everything else you said, but this was a bad easter this year. It truely was a really high amount. We had more than Australia IIRC. (not per capita, in total, that IS bad)

Oh, I see, Shit, that is bad!

[CookMySock]

motor vehicle accidenst should be well down the worry list. Spend your worry time worrying about the things that are most likely to bugger you. Raod crashes aren't in that list.Shush! The government is struggling like hell to build a megabuck business out of this, and it doesn't need blabbermouths like you letting the cat out of the bag!

Steve

[scumdog]

If that were a general concern, Rugby would be illegal.

I don't play rugby.

or snowboard

or

[Smifffy]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motoring/news/article.cfm?c_id=9&objectid=10637354

[schrodingers cat]

I think that one of the main reasons it seems so bad in NZ is the fact that most of the time there is no other news .... so thats all we hear about.



"Shit Neville - the whole news hour is gunna be full of rugby items unless we whip up some indignation over fuck all. Quick, dust off the old carage on the road story and put a kitten segment at the end"

[Ixion]

More perspective. From a male POV.

In 2004 (last year I find figures for) 585 men died of prostate cancer. In the same year 292 men died in road crashes.

So ,if you're male, the odds are you're twice as likely to die from prostate cancer than from a road crash

. Don't hear so much about the more likely cause though.Wonder why.

I can't find a figure for how much is actually spent on road safety each year (strange that) . But I'm willing to bet that even a percentage of that sum spent on education screening and earlier access to treatment would knock that 585 deaths from prostate cancer down by a big number.

Worry about what's likely to kill you. Not what's not.

[schrodingers cat]

Worry about what's likely to kill you. Not what's not.

100% of people that breath air discover it to be fatal. Danger is all around us

[Smifffy]

100% of people that breath air discover it to be fatal. Danger is all around us

Yeah, but people who have more birthdays live longer.

[schrodingers cat]

Yeah, but people who have more birthdays live longer.

Government sponsored birthdays will lower the road toll!!!!!

Brilliant!

[Dave Lobster]

Government sponsored birthdays will lower the road toll!!!!!

Brilliant!

Fuck that. Wouldn't you rather be sponsored by people that can count a bit more accurately??

[CookMySock]

In 2004 (last year I find figures for) 585 men died of prostate cancer. In the same year 292 men died in road crashes.

So ,if you're male, the odds are you're twice as likely to die from prostate cancer than from a road crash

Don't hear so much about the more likely cause though.Wonder why. The govt can't money from it. Imagine the uproar if they taxed the people who had prostate cancer.

This is stupid. Where's the raucous laughter? Where's the support from all sorts of organisations debunking the stupid governments' stance on this?


Steve