How tight's tight?

[99CR250]

Hi
when tieing down the front of a bike to a trailer is there any rule of thumb on how tight to go? question is about adult bike, & also for 50/80 peewees which have softer suspension.
Also with 3 bikes on I can't strap adult bike to trailer corners as kids bikes in the way, have to strap just at slight angle forward to trailer A frame, if this makes any diffference, front wheel is in own bay between two blocks.
Cheers

[Blagger]

Screwing the suspension is nothing compared to having it coming off - my rule for tying any load down is if I grab the load (bike, whatever) and shake it slowly the whole vehicle (ute/trailer) should wobble back and forth.
Some guys stick a stump of firewood on top of their tyre and pull the travel of the bike suspension down 'til the inside top of the mudguard hits it but I haven't tried that myself

[laserracer]

we put a peice of 4x2 about 10'' to 12 ''long under the front guard and onto the top of the tire then pull tiedowns tight we carried 2 bikes last weekend to mx 1 was just tied down and the other tied down with the 4x2 The one without the wood was less stable sideways but still wouldnt have fallen off ..You can also buy plastic ones off trade me but woods cheaper ...try and put your tiedowns as wide as possible

[SpikedPunch]

we put a peice of 4x2 about 10'' to 12 ''long under the front guard and onto the top of the tire then pull tiedowns tight we carried 2 bikes last weekend to mx 1 was just tied down and the other tied down with the 4x2 The one without the wood was less stable sideways but still wouldnt have fallen off ..You can also buy plastic ones off trade me but woods cheaper ...try and put your tiedowns as wide as possible
If you do this make sure to secure your suspension saver/wood with something so if it comes loose it won't go flying off. We've had our SSavers pop out over big bumps once or twice, we use a curly cord to keep them attached to the bikes :)

[Latte]

we put a peice of 4x2 about 10'' to 12 ''long under the front guard and onto the top of the tire then pull tiedowns tight we carried 2 bikes last weekend to mx 1 was just tied down and the other tied down with the 4x2 The one without the wood was less stable sideways but still wouldnt have fallen off ..You can also buy plastic ones off trade me but woods cheaper ...try and put your tiedowns as wide as possible

Anyone got a picture of this in action? never heard/seen it before (I'm guessing it stops the forks compressing and taking the weight off the wheel allowing it to move around?)

[SpikedPunch]

Like this but with a bit of wood instead:

[RJM]

I swear by the block of wood technique. When I first bought my bike back in November a mate and I ventured down to Taupo. By the time we got down there was fork oil all over the trailer from his bike. I do need to modify my block with a little cross piece so it can't fall out, and will make it easer for tieing down.

I tie my bike down as tight as possible at the front and throw an extra tie down across the rear tyre for longer trips.

[99CR250]

Thanks I'd forgotten about the block thang, used tp useit long time ago, will add the cross also
cheers

[FlangMasterJ]

I use an aluminium fork saver. Pretty cheap at $25.

[laserracer]

Yep thats the one ..nice find.. SPIKEY..We crank ours down tight so the suspension cant compress has never come lose in 2 years but i do cover the top side with a bit of foam

[Latte]

Interesting. I've never used one in and I don't strap the rear down either. Probably a sign I'm cranking them down way too much huh.

[barty5]

Nah cause ive never used them either just pulled down even and firm never blown seals while bikes been on trailer ever.

[Reckless]

Some say you don't need them, some always use them, I'm of the later bunch and always use one.
Mainly because I can't help strapping them down really tight and don't won't that much oil pressure on the seals when they are strapped down tight and the trailer is banging itself over bumps as well.

Ok so all you need is an old bit of 4x2 300mm long and a bit off the side of an old nail box or packing case and a little black spray paint!
Cut a curve in the bottom, screw on the cross piece, Done!!
Oh and I have put some foam over the top since the pics where taken.
Then Pull the bike down till the fork prop punches into the tyre, mine have never moved (the cross piece is important).
Pics attached, they'll cost you nothing!

[vr4king]

And to add to this i use one of those plastic things and they seem to reduse blown fork seals.............Also i know hondas have hollow axles maybe some other colours do to but i have a piece of threaded rod through the axle with a eye nut on each end done up hand tight then you can hook a tie down to each side of the axles rod and secure the back from sliding around..........

For my ute i have made up a solid bit that connects to the axle rod to secure one side to the deck then just tie down across the tray to the other side also acts as a barrier to stop shit from sliding of when the tail gate is down

All rather well thought out hehehehehe

[Latte]

And to add to this i use one of those plastic things and they seem to reduse blown fork seals.............Also i know hondas have hollow axles maybe some other colours do to but i have a piece of threaded rod through the axle with a eye nut on each end done up hand tight then you can hook a tie down to each side of the axles rod and secure the back from sliding around..........

For my ute i have made up a solid bit that connects to the axle rod to secure one side to the deck then just tie down across the tray to the other side also acts as a barrier to stop shit from sliding of when the tail gate is down

All rather well thought out hehehehehe

Sounds like the polar opposite to me, tray down, stuff loose in the ute (even gloves/socks etc) , as long as it's near the front it seems to stay on fine. Although now I've mentioned it I'm bound to lose everything next time I go out :D

[laserracer]

Some say you don't need them, some always use them, I'm of the later bunch and always use one.
Mainly because I can't help strapping them down really tight and don't won't that much oil pressure on the seals when they are strapped down tight and the trailer is banging itself over bumps as well.

Ok so all you need is an old bit of 4x2 300mm long and a bit off the side of an old nail box or packing case and a little black spray paint!
Cut a curve in the bottom, screw on the cross piece, Done!!
Oh and I have put some foam over the top since the pics where taken.
Then Pull the bike down till the fork prop punches into the tyre, mine have never moved (the cross piece is important).
Pics attached, they'll cost you nothing!

Black spraypaint :gob: Shouldnt it be Orange :shifty:

[Reckless]

Black spraypaint :gob: Shouldnt it be Orange :shifty:

He good call ! The CRF honda one is red and the one I use for my 200 exc was originally used on my CR250 so lucky the only thing I had was black tyre paint LOL!!
The one pictured is on my boys 03 Ktm.
I'm not as fixed a Ktm fan as people make out! Its just they are the only ones making a good 2smoke enduro bike! LOL!!!!
I'm actually a Kwaka man seeing as I've owned a classic Kwaka since 90' Good spotting though!!! LOL!

[scott411]

ok their are some myths in this thread,

holding the forks down will not up the pressure on the fork seals, the oil is not pressurised in a fork,
and you will not wear out your springs by holding them down, they are held under preload anyway when they are full extended,

i do not use a block but think they are not a bad idea, helps getting the bikes a bit tighter,

i load bikes all the time, i make sure they are on secure buy shaking them before i drive off, just as a check

[Rupe]

I'm not as fixed a Ktm fan as people make out!

nice try buddy. Just about anybody who wants a new bike gets steered towards a ktm200 by you. Do a search....I dare you!

[Rupe]

ok their are some myths in this thread,

holding the forks down will not up the pressure on the fork seals, the oil is not pressurised in a fork,
and you will not wear out your springs by holding them down, they are held under preload anyway when they are full extended,

i do not use a block but think they are not a bad idea, helps getting the bikes a bit tighter,

i load bikes all the time, i make sure they are on secure buy shaking them before i drive off, just as a check

I reckon most blown/leaking seals are from people not pulling their dust seals down and cleaning them out. or just worn dust seals letting shit in and not out as most people just change the fork seals.

[Buddy L]

Ive got one of those tie down black plastic things that the photo is of on page one, tryed it once and have never tryed it again. I just can't be arsed using it.
As Scott says the oil isn't under pressure.
If anyone wants its come and get it.... send me a PM. Im in auckland.

[Reckless]

holding the forks down will not up the pressure on the fork seals, the oil is not pressurised in a fork

Even If you tie a bike tight down with fork fully compressed Scott. You fill them to only a bout 100mm from the top so sqwezing them tight down must have some affect?
My boys old CR125 used to leak a bit on the ute when tied down hard but not out on the trails? Probably showing my ignorance here though!


nice try buddy. Just about anybody who wants a new bike gets steered towards a ktm200 by you. Do a search....I dare you!

NA Rupe to scared to do that, I might realise what a big mouth I've got! LOL!! And you'll notice I have toned it down lately!! But hey I really like my bike, cheap to maintain, goes through fuck all gas and is as fast as anything out there with a decent rider on it. But I guess I've just proved your point LOL!!

Anyway Back on topic "fork props"!!!

[noobi]

Your compressing the air in the fork, not the oil. Thats why the air gap has an effect on the way the fork works. More air = slightly plusher ride, less air = slightly firmer ride. I think?

[scott411]

Even If you tie a bike tight down with fork fully compressed Scott. You fill them to only a bout 100mm from the top so sqwezing them tight down must have some affect?


fork oil is approx 100mm from the top, with the forks fully compressed, and springs out, so even at full compression they are not under pressure,

[oldguy]

theres no room to put any wood between the guard and the wheel.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=207663

[Reckless]

theres no room to put any wood between the guard and the wheel.

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=207663

:bash:Its your other bike we are talkin about ya silly old bugger!! LOL!!!!:innocent:

[Reckless]

fork oil is approx 100mm from the top, with the forks fully compressed, and springs out, so even at full compression they are not under pressure,

I freckin knew that too as I've done it a few times! DUH! Furkin big senior moment I had there ay!!! DUH!!! Forget I said anything ok!!

[barty5]

So moral of it all is tie the bloody thing down as tight as you want just as long as it dont fall off case closed.......................

[Crisis management]

So moral of it all is tie the bloody thing down as tight as you want just as long as it dont fall off case closed.......................

That'll never catch on Barty, far too simple. :mellow:

If you want to be sure you have sufficient suspension compression to withstand the vertical and horizontal G forces encountered in trailered transportation it is fairly simple to obtain a measurement you can work with.

Just a couple of simple steps (front suspension used as an example, it's the same for the rear).

1. Measure the unloaded (suspension fully extended) distance from the from axle centre to lower triple clamp.

2. Measure the race sag (sit on the bike) and subtract that from the unloaded length, this is the usable suspension stroke.

3. Multiply by 0.378912329 then subtract 2, write this down , it's next weeks lotto numbers.

4. Find the inverse of this number and convert to millimetres by multiplying by about a gazillion.

5. This is the length a fully tensioned tie down should be when measured between the trailer connection and the bar end weight on a standard (NZS19728.09. 1895) single axle trailer.

6. This loaded length is acceptable for trailer speeds up to 70 km/hr on smooth roads, for every additional 10km/hr of speed subtract 1.35mm from the tie down length, for gravel roads subrtract 10mm from the tie down length.


See, really easy, I use this method every time I trailer the bike, any other questions?

[Reckless]

That'll never catch on Barty, far too simple. :mellow:

If you want to be sure you have sufficient suspension compression to withstand the vertical and horizontal G forces encountered in trailered transportation it is fairly simple to obtain a measurement you can work with.

Just a couple of simple steps (front suspension used as an example, it's the same for the rear).

1. Measure the unloaded (suspension fully extended) distance from the from axle centre to lower triple clamp.

2. Measure the race sag (sit on the bike) and subtract that from the unloaded length, this is the usable suspension stroke.

3. Multiply by 0.378912329 then subtract 2, write this down , it's next weeks lotto numbers.

4. Find the inverse of this number and convert to millimetres by multiplying by about a gazillion.

5. This is the length a fully tensioned tie down should be when measured between the trailer connection and the bar end weight on a standard (NZS19728.09. 1895) single axle trailer.

6. This loaded length is acceptable for trailer speeds up to 70 km/hr on smooth roads, for every additional 10km/hr of speed subtract 1.35mm from the tie down length, for gravel roads subrtract 10mm from the tie down length.


See, really easy, I use this method every time I trailer the bike, any other questions?

oh Shit now I've got to cut 7.54567mm off my fork props!

[RJM]

Damn I'm doing it all wrong! That sir is a great Friday funny. You're obviously flat out.

[barty5]

just cut your forks down.

[2fitty]

i reckon it pays to use proper bike straps with handle bar loops and karabinas on the trailer, never fails, and not cheap ones from supercheap that you have to undo with a handsaw.

[scott411]

i reckon it pays to use proper bike straps with handle bar loops and karabinas on the trailer, never fails, and not cheap ones from supercheap that you have to undo with a handsaw.

very well said, i always use this set up