Which pretend classic is best? Kawasaki W650 or Triumph Bonne?

[Nat]

Hi everyone. I'm not sure if it's been covered or not, but I was wondering about pretend classics. From everything I can tell, everyone who rides one of the new but old looking Triumphs only has good things to say about them, and the same is true for the Kawasaki W650. Everyone says it's like riding a classic bike that actually works (!) and doesn't leak oil all over the place.

So which is a better bike? Kawasaki or Triumph?

Should someone in the market for one be swayed by the cheaper price of the Kawasaki? or the bigger engine in the Triumph? Or should they just harden up and get a real classic!?

[Motu]

The W650 is closer to an old Triumph than a new Triumph - it's smaller and lighter just like the original,and can be modified into what you want it to be.You can still buy a new Bonnie,and get the parts for them.And you can buy one modified from the factory into what you want it to be.

[jim.cox]

The Kwaka is a classic that works

The Trumpet is a retro-styled modern bike

So, which do you prefer? style or substance ?

Me - I ride a dinosaur :)

[Dodgyiti]

I had a Thruxton and liked it a lot, I have ridden a W650 at a Kawasaki test day but for 20 mins so the only comparison I could make is the Thruxton had quite a bit more urge up to 140 and the W650 was running out of puff after 120. The Triumph is a 900cc after all so that part is obvious. Both have decent parts backup but there is more out there for customisation for the W650 'off the shelf' from my investigations, especially now Deus Ex-Machina have set up shop here.
The Triumph will more likely hold it's value, the bottom of the range Bonnie goes for 14,500 new and it is hard to get a 5 year old one for under 9K. Plenty of low kms ex-Japan W650's to be had for cheaper if you get someone to import one for you.
Either way, personally I like the look of both of them but for open road and especially 2-up I would go the Triumph..

Edit: neither of them had any soul or charm like a real classic..

[AllanB]

The only thing I did not like about the W650 was it was not a W750! I'd probably own a highly modified one if it was a 750 with just that extra bit of poke. Pretty sure there is a big bore kit around.

There are some beaut ones around that have been modified.

Heres a dedicated site to perve over.
http://kawasakiw650.co.uk/index.html

Ironically the Kawasaki is more 'Triumph' than a new Bonnie but at the end of the day which one can you go to your local dealer and buy new?

[AllanB]

neither of them had any soul or charm like a real classic..

I am pretty sure that there is an after-market kit available for both bikes that causes them to vibrate badly and leak oil.

[Dodgyiti]

I am pretty sure that there is an after-market kit available for both bikes that causes them to vibrate badly and leak oil.

Haahaa, the vibrations keep you regular.. no excuses for the oil though:o

[Voltaire]

I have only ridden the Bonnie for about 1/2 an hour from a dealer, despite my Ducati Darmah leaking oil, not starting first time every time, I would not trade it for any of the retro bikes on the market...However If I had to ride one every day I'd probably go for the Thruxton as the Ducati Sports Classic is too expensive and looks very uncomfortable to ride.

Deus in the city gets the Kwaka 650s and makes bobbers and cafes out of them...look ok .

[KiwiRat]

I've racked up 98,500 km on my bonnie T100.

With a little bit of research, a fun time can be had.

[I'll C U Jimmy]

I was looking for a weekend fun bike and thought about the bikes you mentioned, then I bought a 79 XS650 and set about having a bit of fun re-building and modifying it. I can only say that you cant buy the satisfaction of having your handywork get through re-certification and back on the road. It vibrates like a bastard, is offensively loud, but its a totally involving ride...heaps of fun, and in the windies its bloody hard to shake off.

[toycollector10]

Does the "old look" in the "new style" ever work? :no: Just look at the PT Cruiser

[Stylo]

Does the "old look" in the "new style" ever work? :no: Just look at the PT Cruiser

It does'nt work , when has it worked ?

And, yes, the PT cruiser is a horrible piece of work, can't think of a car I'd like to own less , ugly, gutless and under-engineered .....

[Stylo]

I was looking for a weekend fun bike and thought about the bikes you mentioned, then I bought a 79 XS650 and set about having a bit of fun re-building and modifying it. I can only say that you cant buy the satisfaction of having your handywork get through re-certification and back on the road. It vibrates like a bastard, is offensively loud, but its a totally involving ride...heaps of fun, and in the windies its bloody hard to shake off.

Nice job you've made on the XS Jimmy !

[avgas]

- GB4/5/600
- Triumph Scrambler (NOT THE BONNIE!)

W650 is not a bad bike, but its as classic looking as a vrod.

[blackdog]

I am pretty sure that there is an after-market kit available for both bikes that causes them to vibrate badly and leak oil.

I offer that service for any bike.

Give it to me for 10000km or so to thrash the crap out of and will happily return it doing both those things.

[devo]

If you want a triumph lookalike, then buy the triumph.
But at the end of the day, your the buyer, who gives a fuk wot we think.
Ride em both and buy the one you prefer. easy eh.

[Love my Bonnie]

I take offense to my baby being called a "pretend" classic.
Shes a classy lady, runs well, starts first pop EVERY time & hasnt missed a beat since I got her.
Shes my daily ride, I've done 45000ks in 2 1/2 years, wouldn't part with her for anything.

[Stylo]

I take offense to my baby being called a "pretend" classic.
Shes a classy lady, runs well, starts first pop EVERY time & hasnt missed a beat since I got her.
Shes my daily ride, I've done 45000ks in 2 1/2 years, wouldn't part with her for anything.

Enjoy your ride mate ......

[Love my Bonnie]

Enjoy your ride mate ......

I do enjoy my ride Stylo
Shes the love of my life:love:
Far more reliable & trustworthy than most men I know.

[I'll C U Jimmy]

cheers Stylo.

[Grubber]

I do enjoy my ride Stylo
Shes the love of my life:love:
Far more reliable & trustworthy than most men I know.

OI! Enough of that ya hear!

[nudemetalz]

But is the Kwaka W650 actually a Bonnie inspiration or a Kwaka W1 650SS of 1965 inspiration? (which was actually a BSA 650 copy)
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/kawasaki/kawasaki_w1%20650%2065.htm

[Voltaire]

....or all just variations of Val Pages parallel twin....?

Still you can't go past Jack Wickes styling on the Edward Turner models.

[Motu]

It's inspired by Triumph of course,the styling clues are easy to pick up.

[Edbear]

But is the Kwaka W650 actually a Bonnie inspiration or a Kwaka W1 650SS of 1965 inspiration? (which was actually a BSA 650 copy)
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/kawasaki/kawasaki_w1%20650%2065.htm


It's inspired by Triumph of course,the styling clues are easy to pick up.

Yeah, Kawasaki only referred to the W1 to avoid praising Triumph and remind everyone they made a "Better BSA" back then. :yes:

The styling was pure Edward Turner, though and IMHO is far closer to the original than the current Bonnie. Personally I prefer the W650 based on looks, but I also like the Thruxton and Scrambler and would love one of each! :sunny:

[Motu]

If you are going to bring Edward Turner into it,then the modern Triumph aligns much more to his ideals.He would never produce just one stand alone model,he would spin it off into several different versions,and then use components on completely different bikes altogether.Anyone who has owned Triumphs knows that their Trophy is just not a Trophy - it's also a Bonnie,a Tiger,a T110,and Speedtwin or a Saint.......

[Edbear]

If you are going to bring Edward Turner into it,then the modern Triumph aligns much more to his ideals.He would never produce just one stand alone model,he would spin it off into several different versions,and then use components on completely different bikes altogether.Anyone who has owned Triumphs knows that their Trophy is just not a Trophy - it's also a Bonnie,a Tiger,a T110,and Speedtwin or a Saint.......

True, I was only referring to the styling. The fact that Triumph has had a lot more success than Kawasaki is, I believe due to this fact and that the brand itself stands in its own right, whereas Kawasaki brought out a single model to cash in on a retro movement that never really took off.

Still, there are enthusiastic owner groups for the W650 and specialist builders making differing models from the base bike.

[will650]

Just to reply to the original post. I have owned a 2005 W650 (Jap domestic model, grey import) for the past year in which time I have put about 10,000km on it via a mixture of daily commuting in Auckland and weekend trips out to the west coast, the Coromandel and Taupo.
I am a returning biker after a lay off of about 15 years (kids you know, nowhere to put a baby seat etc) and have found the W to be the perfect bike for me. I first saw one a couple of years ago when working in Thailand – my mate had bought one and it reminded me of those late 60’s Brit bikes that I always dreamed of owning. I have always had a hankering for a 1965 Triumph Tiger twin and the W had the same no-nonsense, no frills look but seem to offer the promise of less mechanical input per mile.
And this has proved to be the case. The bike is plenty fast enough for me, comfortable cruising on the motorway at 110kmph (any faster and the wind blast is a killer, although I did have it up to 145 kmph just for the fun of it but it was a one off!) The bike goes round corners pretty well as far as I am concerned – though I am sure not as well as modern race style bikes – in fact it reminds me of the XS650 I owned back in 1989. The major difference is the lack of vibration on the W. The XS was so bad it wobbled your eyeballs at traffic lights and blurred your vision! The vibes are there on the W but understated. The bike pulls strongly from tickover to redline with no step and sounds pretty good (if a bit quiet). Brakes are adequate for the performance, though the rear drum is a bit dead feeling.
I did consider trading it in for a Triumph and took a 2005 T100 for a test ride. To be honest, the Triumph felt more mass produced and Jap than the Kawa strangely enough. I changed my mind on the trade in and stuck with the kawa! IMHO the W is better looking anyway, the proportions are better and it just looks less cluttered and of course there is that bevel drive that sets it apart from the rest....
Overall then, it is an easy bike with a bit of character. Cheap to run (65+ mpg) and maintain – I change my own oil, filters etc and do the valves (dead easy due to sliding rockers and shims) and I am mechanically inept! Would definitely recommend it.
Oh, if you do get one, get used to old fellas coming over all misty eyed and reminiscing about the old Speed Twin they used to have in Invercargill back in the day.....

[will650]

Also - lots of tuning/looks goodies out there as it is a bit of a cult bike in Japan

[rok-the-boat]

I think Triumph based their new Bonnie on the 1978 Honda Superdream rather than the Bonnie of the same year - big mistake if you ask me. The Kawi looks a lot more the part, being based on it's old sibling. I'm British and I'd have a Bonnie of the Kawi didn't exist, but I can't buy the Kawi as it is just so Kawi.

[Big Dave]

Both are good vehicles. The Kawasaki has a pound for pound performance edge.

When I ride a new Triumph I feel like 'I'm riding a Triumph'.

When I ride a W650 I feel like 'I'm riding a copy of a Triumph'.

[JimO]

Both are good vehicles. The Kawasaki has a pound for pound performance edge.

When I ride a new Triumph I feel like 'I'm riding a Triumph'.

When I ride a W650 I feel like 'I'm riding a copy of a Triumph'.

the triumph is a copy of the triumph as well though

[nudemetalz]

...and the Kawasaki is a copy off a Kawasaki which is in turn a copy of a BSA...... :blink:

[Paul in NZ]

...and the Kawasaki is a copy off a Kawasaki which is in turn a copy of a BSA...... :blink:

Erm - Dunno... The W1 / W2 was initially a rebadged Meguro who couldnt make their mind up if they were copying a BSA or a Norton for a while. The styling was very un BSA and it went on quite late to about 1973 (from memory) hich was really amazing since BSA gave up on the pre unit 10 years earlier...

Mind you - they probably should not have bothered because in my opinion the A7 / A10 bikes were a happier unit than the A50 / A65...

Point is - style wise the W650 looks very little like the W1/W2 but its a lot like the T120

I like them a lot. They are cheap enough for a special now too.....

[nudemetalz]

Yes you are right, I forgot about the Meguro.

[tamarillo]

I was looking for a weekend fun bike and thought about the bikes you mentioned, then I bought a 79 XS650 and set about having a bit of fun re-building and modifying it. I can only say that you cant buy the satisfaction of having your handywork get through re-certification and back on the road. It vibrates like a bastard, is offensively loud, but its a totally involving ride...heaps of fun, and in the windies its bloody hard to shake off.

That is very very cool...

[tamarillo]

Have to ask - why either? Why get a retro with teh compomises the adhere to in trying to look retro. Do other mid sized bikes use old twin coils on the back?

Test a good mid sized modern (Kawasaki veryses etc) against these pose machines and then choose. Do you ride it or look at it?

Like others said if you're gonna have a classic get one - try airhead beemers if you need more reliabilty.

[Paul in NZ]

Oh Oh.... is it just me - or did the room just get a bit hotter :innocent:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/New-bikes/2010/august/aug2710-kawasaki-w800-is-real/

[Motu]

Is the management of the new Triumph company going to laugh this one off like their predecessors,or are they going to take it seriously.Because being a died in the wool Triumph fan,I know which one I'd be buying...and it'd have a green tank.

[Paul in NZ]

Is the management of the new Triumph company going to laugh this one off like their predecessors,or are they going to take it seriously.Because being a died in the wool Triumph fan,I know which one I'd be buying...and it'd have a green tank.

Different people buying them now Motu. Engine enthusiasts will buy the kawa, the image concious (like Big Dave) will go the triumph + accessories + jacket + cool factor :sick: Although - it would appeal to my sense of sick humour if it happened again...

Joking aside - I'm actually pleased this sector is getting more bikes - good stuff...

[Bren]

Oh Oh.... is it just me - or did the room just get a bit hotter :innocent:

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/New-bikes/2010/august/aug2710-kawasaki-w800-is-real/

Oi....nice link.....good to see Kwaka is going to release a larger version....might just be a possibility for me at some stage....

[Paul in NZ]

Yeah - gives me more chance to wind Big Dave up too ... :innocent:

[Bren]

Yeah - gives me more chance to wind Big Dave up too ... :innocent:

Well with the green paint it looks like an authentic Kawasaki, it reminds me in part to my first ever bike....a Kawasaki Z200...and the piping on the seat...very iconic of the 70s and early 80s

[Paul in NZ]

Well with the green paint it looks like an authentic Kawasaki, it reminds me in part to my first ever bike....a Kawasaki Z200...and the piping on the seat...very iconic of the 70s and early 80s

The piping is more a 50's 60's thing mate... unless my memory has gorn.... again ;-)

[AllanB]

Too late Kawasaki - silly buggers if it was a 750-800 to start with I'd have purchased one a decade ago. Still better late than never. Make a darn nice project bike.

60 hp :mellow:

My 1983 750 twin Kawasaki made 55 hp.

Surely they could have easily gotten 70hp out of it and really stuck it to Triumph.

Now that would be a kick - if you consider that the Bonneville was once a true performance bike then a Japanese copy of a Japanese copy of a copy making more power than Triumphs own copy .......

[tri boy]

try airhead beemers if you need more reliabilty.

Your taking the piss surely. Check some of the maintenance threads on adv or even here on the adv forum. Those clunkers are stripped and rebuilt very often.

As for posing on a new Bonnie, havn't seen a latte outlet on any of the hundreds of gravel roads/tracks the scrambler travels on. Pulling up at the Puhoi covered in dust and sculling a long neck makes the real posers on choppers and sprotbikes gag, to think such filthy scum should be allowed at a "bikers pub". God it feels good.
The Kawasaki is a nice all purpose bike, so is the new Bonnies. The 800 W looks OK, but I'm hanging out for the new Trumpy Triple adv bike.:Punk:

[Voltaire]

Your taking the piss surely. Check some of the maintenance threads on adv or even here on the adv forum. Those clunkers are stripped and rebuilt very often.


Your so right...my 1970 BMW R75/5 had its motor rebuilt in 1986..then a couple of tours of Europe, once with a sidecar....had to adjust valves, check tyre pressures...probably due new exhaust valves by now:innocent:

Mind you the later post 81 model build standard was not as solid.

[Motu]

60 hp :mellow:

My 1983 750 twin Kawasaki made 55 hp.

Surely they could have easily gotten 70hp out of it and really stuck it to Triumph.



Another one who buys a bike by the specs sheet - HP,1/4mile time and top speed....are you American? It's a twin!! Bottom end,mid range and scream it all the way to 7,000rpm.That's another reason for the decline of the British bikes...all potential buyers wanted to see in the spec sheets was big HP and a fast 1/4mile time.It took the Japanese a long time to notice a niche market away from the HP race.

[pete376403]

...and the Kawasaki is a copy off a Kawasaki which is in turn a copy of a BSA...... :blink:
The original W1-SS was purty. I could live with one of these.

[Edbear]

The original W1-SS was purty. I could live with one of these.

Me too, as long as you treated it as gently as an A7, the W1 650 did make improvements to some of the engine's shortcomings and a while ago won a comparison with the A7, or was it the A10?, in the UK.

I'll have to look it up again.

[AllanB]

Another one who buys a bike by the specs sheet - HP,1/4mile time and top speed....are you American? It's a twin!! Bottom end,mid range and scream it all the way to 7,000rpm.That's another reason for the decline of the British bikes...all potential buyers wanted to see in the spec sheets was big HP and a fast 1/4mile time.It took the Japanese a long time to notice a niche market away from the HP race.

No I'm not American, and you miss my point - I rode a 55hp twin for 23 years, I like parallel twins, - and although it was 'fun' a bit more would have been better. 70 is not much to ask surely out of 800cc of modern engine with a nice big torque increase as well. - in fact I have magazines lying around home with new Bonnies that have big bore kits in them producing this and a whole lot more torque and are proving reliable and every review states the same - Triumph please do this! Thunderbike in Nelson do a cam & pipe kit that give the Bonnie engine a welcome injection of personality. Ducati have been reliably offering more than this out of a twin of similar capacity, with the torque that is expected.

Triumph has made no attempt to produce a proper performance Bonnie engine - I hoped the Thruxton would have a hot-rod engine in it, but alas it was just another cosmetic change (how American is that!). I am still surprised they are not offering one - maybe they need a Triumph Screaming Eagle division - that's smart marketing for extra $.

I'd happily have another parallel twin as a 'keeper' for another 20 odd years (they make a great blank canvas to modify!) but I want one with a bit of kick in the engine department, if I wanted something to lug around town in high gears I'd get a Sporster.

[AllanB]

Had a look at the Triumph Website - I see the Thruxton is getting a claimed 68 hp now and the SE 66 - chuck a pipe on them (a Arrow from Triumphs catalogue) and you'll probably get my 70hp.

Now trim 20 plus kg off them and I'll be interested ................ :yes:

Do I get a free Triumph T-shirt if I buy one?

[Voltaire]

My old Darmah is 860cc and 60 HP, surely a Triumph must be more than that?
I test rode Holeshots Bonnie last year and it didn't seem anywhere near as powerful....
or am I gettting power and noise confused :innocent:

[Motu]

No I'm not American, and you miss my point -

I think you have missed the point of the W650 and W800 completely,I very much doubt it is the bike for you.The Indy Mile has just been won by a Kawasaki 650 twin,cleaning up the decades dominant Harley XR750,and the 900cc odd Ducati's and KTM's,plus some modern Triumph twins.To do that it's got to be putting out around 100hp....so why can't Kawasaki do that with the W800? If you have to ask that you are not in the market for a W800.

<img src="http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/6973/bsmith1.jpg">

<img src="http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/5769/start1.jpg">

[tri boy]

Fookin aye:Punk:
Mucho respecto:yes:

[trustme]

I suspect it is a Ninja or what we would call an ER6 motor, built by Bill Werner who is no slouch at building flat trackers.
http://www.google.co.nz/imgres?imgurl=http://thekneeslider.com/images/ninja650flattracker.jpg&imgrefurl=http://thekneeslider.com/archives/2007/11/30/kawasaki-ninja-flat-tracker/&h=269&w=470&sz=74&tbnid=9h2GAgF_P-ZPhM:&tbnh=74&tbnw=129&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dbill%2Bwerner&zoom=1&usg=__4YQgbFvvc_iZ4cWyQlbqKTAftDc=&sa=X&ei=qbZ8TNrLC4XmsQOo1qWDBw&ved=0CCEQ9QEwAw

Still tasty.

[Motu]

It's using the standard frame too...although I doubt it's completely standard.Werner calls it a junkyard bike,using second hand parts,and he reckons he hardly touches the engines...unlike the XR750's.Bill Werner would be one of the most knowledgeable tuners in flattrack - his bikes took Scott Parker to nine titles.He's not winging it with this junkyard bike,it's all part of a plan....5 years in the making.

[Mully Clown]

Had a look at the Triumph Website - I see the Thruxton is getting a claimed 68 hp now and the SE 66 - chuck a pipe on them (a Arrow from Triumphs catalogue) and you'll probably get my 70hp.

Now trim 20 plus kg off them and I'll be interested ................ :yes:

Do I get a free Triumph T-shirt if I buy one?

Well once you put the Arrow pipes on you've probably shaved off half of your 20kg. Little bit more if you grab the 2-1 as well.

[shafty]

Just to reply to the original post. I have owned a 2005 W650 (Jap domestic model, grey import) for the past year in which time I have put about 10,000km on it via a mixture of daily commuting in Auckland and weekend trips out to the west coast, the Coromandel and Taupo.
I am a returning biker after a lay off of about 15 years (kids you know, nowhere to put a baby seat etc) and have found the W to be the perfect bike for me. I first saw one a couple of years ago when working in Thailand – my mate had bought one and it reminded me of those late 60’s Brit bikes that I always dreamed of owning. I have always had a hankering for a 1965 Triumph Tiger twin and the W had the same no-nonsense, no frills look but seem to offer the promise of less mechanical input per mile.
And this has proved to be the case. The bike is plenty fast enough for me, comfortable cruising on the motorway at 110kmph (any faster and the wind blast is a killer, although I did have it up to 145 kmph just for the fun of it but it was a one off!) The bike goes round corners pretty well as far as I am concerned – though I am sure not as well as modern race style bikes – in fact it reminds me of the XS650 I owned back in 1989. The major difference is the lack of vibration on the W. The XS was so bad it wobbled your eyeballs at traffic lights and blurred your vision! The vibes are there on the W but understated. The bike pulls strongly from tickover to redline with no step and sounds pretty good (if a bit quiet). Brakes are adequate for the performance, though the rear drum is a bit dead feeling.
I did consider trading it in for a Triumph and took a 2005 T100 for a test ride. To be honest, the Triumph felt more mass produced and Jap than the Kawa strangely enough. I changed my mind on the trade in and stuck with the kawa! IMHO the W is better looking anyway, the proportions are better and it just looks less cluttered and of course there is that bevel drive that sets it apart from the rest....
Overall then, it is an easy bike with a bit of character. Cheap to run (65+ mpg) and maintain – I change my own oil, filters etc and do the valves (dead easy due to sliding rockers and shims) and I am mechanically inept! Would definitely recommend it.
Oh, if you do get one, get used to old fellas coming over all misty eyed and reminiscing about the old Speed Twin they used to have in Invercargill back in the day.....

Cool, throw up a pic of your ride on here or on your profile......

[AllanB]

I think we just have different expectations from a Bonnie or W800. Sure they are nice retro looking rides and Triumph has done very well out of this model but they are missing the market segment that I fall into.
I’m not a born-again rider returning after 25 years who wants to ease back into biking, and I’m not old enough to settle into a 90kmph cruiser yet plus I don’t want to wear rose tinted glasses and pretend I’m back in my glory-days.

I don’t want a commuter bike – I’ll get a GS500 or similar for that – I do not need 150hp of power, but I do desire a engine with a bit of a kick and excitement, one that is not described as ‘adequate’. I want to ride that fat midrange like I presently do on my Hornet.

I want a ‘hot-rod’ Bonnie. Harley have done it to global acclaim with the XR1200, I fail to see why Triumph do not produce a ‘XR’ 990 Bonnie. I’d prefer this over either a Ducati or the Harley.

Still – I’m winning Big Wednesday tonight and I’ll ship a new bonnie engine in a crate to that Norman Hyde chap to ‘fix’ for me with Wiseco pistons etc. Robert T can sort the rear suspenders, and I’ll graft on a decent dual brake front end. After that it is subtle cosmetic changes and I'll be sweet. :love:

[Motu]

The W650 has proven to be one of the most owner customised bikes after the XS650.Do that.

[pete376403]

Funny how the original Bonnie was around 47 - 49 HP and was the superbike of its day.

Now twice that power is considered merely adequate for a commuter bike.

[AllanB]

The W650 has proven to be one of the most owner customised bikes after the XS650.Do that.

I almost did! :yes::yes::yes::yes:

If I had the spare $ I'd find a cheap-O pre loved one to molest.

[nutjob]

No I'm not American, and you miss my point - I rode a 55hp twin for 23 years, I like parallel twins, - and although it was 'fun' a bit more would have been better. 70 is not much to ask surely out of 800cc of modern engine with a nice big torque increase as well. - in fact I have magazines lying around home with new Bonnies that have big bore kits in them producing this and a whole lot more torque and are proving reliable and every review states the same - Triumph please do this! Thunderbike in Nelson do a cam & pipe kit that give the Bonnie engine a welcome injection of personality. Ducati have been reliably offering more than this out of a twin of similar capacity, with the torque that is expected.

Triumph has made no attempt to produce a proper performance Bonnie engine - I hoped the Thruxton would have a hot-rod engine in it, but alas it was just another cosmetic change (how American is that!). I am still surprised they are not offering one - maybe they need a Triumph Screaming Eagle division - that's smart marketing for extra $.

I'd happily have another parallel twin as a 'keeper' for another 20 odd years (they make a great blank canvas to modify!) but I want one with a bit of kick in the engine department, if I wanted something to lug around town in high gears I'd get a Sporster.

I have gone a bit silly with my Thruxton, I have chucked in new cams and high comp pistons from TPUSA, had the head ported and flowed, changed the pipes, ripped out the airbox, remapped the ignitor unit and raised the rev limit (plus a shitload of other stuff). I havn't had it dyno'd yet but it is definitely a lot more tourquey than the stock set up (which truly was pathetic). The stock CVK carbs are the real bottleneck, they cannot even flow enough air through a stock head! Anyway these bikes are a good blank canvas if you want to muck around with them and make them your own.

[Zookey]

While we are not talking classics here only retro s,i when looking for a new triumph coudnt get the colour i wanted nor one allready built as a complete tourer,but found one (new)latest model injected in the States,landed same price as N.Z. However she had the "New Bonnieville Company" Motor, Wiseco 903cc upgrade.Slapped on the Triumph off road pipes bloody load but ime deaf.Will pull a full 20MPH past the dial.dynoed 21hp on standard,not bad for a Speedmaster with every option fitted ,and ime 110 wet + leathers: scooter:
ps My son told me the speed while chasing his mate who was riding "his" RSV Corser Ltd

[Subike]

I guess you could take a differing road and combine two bikes of the same style
Make a lookalike thats right but wrong for all the right and wrong reasons

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q305/subike/truaha.jpg
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q305/subike/trupyam.jpg

[will650]

I was asked for a picture or 2 of the bike by shafty- here you go. Enjoyed your profile pic thingy!218845218846218847218848

[Voltaire]

Anyone taken one of those new W800's out for a spin? I understand they are dearer than the Bonnie?

[Dodgyiti]

Enough holding back, it's well overdue to have a little rant about the perception of modern classic bikes and how they fit into the classic bike genre.

Simple answer to that in my opinion is they don't.

I quote the final paragraph from a review of the Kawasaki W800 from Old Bike Australisa;



This is a wonderful interpretation of the way it used to be and I have no doubt that with the many classic bike rallies around these days, you could very easily turn up with the W800 and have many 'knowledgeble' enthusiasts commenting, "......nice bike mate...nice restoration...what year is it?"
Holy shit! Please save me from writing my first ever letter to a bike magazine, better still I will have a rant on KiwiBiker as it is the 'done thing'

Now let us analyze that statement shall we?
Any enthusiast even slightly worthy of carrying that description would not be such a dork surely?
Secondly what the hell gives someone the right to even turn up on their modern Bonnie/W800/Guzzi V750/et al in the first place?
Classic bikes and their riders/restorers/constant fettlers are a distinct group within the motorcycle community. They are people who have thumbed their noses at the high tech, faster than the law, point and shoot, book it in for a service, what polish do you use, soft cock fraternity of modern bike owners.
Hard core statement? You bet your grubby fingers it is. But I stand by it because it is my opinon and screw anyone else. And that, I think, is the classic bike attitude. It defys logic, common sense and practicality. It goes against what your friends and family believe because it is what you believe.

Turning up to a classic bike run on a modern classic is downright wankie. You have not earned the right to even be there. Turn the key, put some gas in and make sure it has been serviced and your there.

Whilst everyone else has been through the proceedures we all go through in preperation of going to a rally, sometimes it can take hours, midnight oil, hurried calls and emails to try and find parts, taking tools and spares..etc etc... all part of the process of the elation it gives actually making the event, and sometimes even making it home again.
Thus giving you the right to be there, you have earned it, enjoy it. You know the intricate workings of your bike, you know where to find the tricky bits, you know what could go wrong and hopefully how to prevent it.
It's a whole different world to the 'turn key' bike and in my view should be kept seperate.

Sure some of these modern classic riders may have had a Triumph/Norton/Beeza/UJM back in the day...why not now? The parts are out there, the knowledge is far greater than it was back then, problems have been addressed, solutions found. It can't be the cost as all of the above are cheaper than a new modern classic. It can't be the reliability because a 'real' classic bike can be made reliable given an owner capable of earning the knowledge and skills required to make it reliable.

So the only answer is that the modern classic bike owner is a soft cock.

Job done, glad Uncle Dodgy explained that for you eh?

Ride on, and don't give 'em the time of day, maybe offer some viagra to help their emmm..issues

[Dadpole]

:corn:.....

[Dodgyiti]

:apint:

:drinkup:

[Voltaire]

Not everyone has the skills or wants to spend time working on old bikes.:rolleyes: The guy I bought my Commando was selling it as he was retiring and it was getting hard to kick start. I gotta say stalling at the lights with a kick start is a pita as you have to find neutral to start....easier said than done.

[eelracing]

Excellent rant there Dodgy but how are they different from the enthusiast that turns up with bike on trailer, whats the point if your not going to ride it.Surely this is what bikes are all about?

But I have a confession to make...

I took a W800 out for a test ride yesterday,and had a blast (gasp,shock,horror,oh the humanity of it all)the only prob I had with it was the fact that it's to quiet.
Similar power to my Commando but without the hinge in the middle effect when hitting bumps mid-corner (gotta tighten those iso's again).

As for the modern Bonnie it does nothing for me in the looks department whereas the kwaka just screams retro the bonnie just looks brick-ish.And as a Norton man I would'nt be seen dead on a Trumpy in the first place but i'm sure it rides the same I guess,if a little ponderous.

[davebullet]

As for the modern Bonnie it does nothing for me in the looks department whereas the kwaka just screams retro the bonnie just looks brick-ish.And as a Norton man I would'nt be seen dead on a Trumpy in the first place but i'm sure it rides the same I guess,if a little ponderous.

Ooops - the new Norton's chief designer came from Triumph!

[Voltaire]

But I have a confession to make...

Read the Norton Owners Club Notes 10 times...
and all the part numbers starting with 60-
also go and sort your vernier isos..:rolleyes:

[eelracing]

Ooops - the new Norton's chief designer came from Triumph!

So he's seen the light then.

[eelracing]

But I have a confession to make...

Read the Norton Owners Club Notes 10 times...
and all the part numbers starting with 60-
also go and sort your vernier isos..:rolleyes:

Forgive me Voltaire for i have sinned,it has been 6 days since my last clutch releasing kick...

[Voltaire]

new designer...Pierre Terreblanche.....designed some of the less popular Ducatis....

[pete376403]

... I gotta say stalling at the lights with a kick start is a pita as you have to find neutral to start....easier said than done.

Thats why you should have bought Royal Enfield - they have a lever that automatically selects neutral (the real one, not one of the false neutrals the box is full of)

[Voltaire]

Thats why you should have bought Royal Enfield - they have a lever that automatically selects neutral (the real one, not one of the false neutrals the box is full of)


My work around is finding neutral before I stop..... see you don't get to do shit like that on a modern
also a bit of a blip on the throttle on the downshift works wonders...
I had a Chaing Jaiing with a neutral finder...the kicker had a mean kickback.....limping around mean

[Paul in NZ]

The problem, particularly on the hinternet, of taking a strong stand is that anyone and everyone will then fire back 20,000 points of where you went wrong...

I agree 95% with uncle dodgy. I don’t for a minute think a modern retro machine dilutes the classic scene (although god knows why people put em on trade me in the classic section) but rather I see them as an affirmation that the people who originally designed those bike knew a thing or two about producing a satisfying ride for a certain group of people.

There will come a time when I cant quite manage my classic's as easily as I could a modern. That’s a wee way off yet but I see it happening so some of the guys and frankly if the answer for them is a W800 or new bonnie and that means we can still enjoy a ride, so be it. The older bikes are harder on the body, no doubt about it but if you put in some gym time and lay off the pies you seem to do OK.

I suspect that mostly people stop riding them because they loose faith in their ability or the bikes ability to provide reliable transport. The doubt generated about doing things for yourself not quite being good enough by modern living (buy a new bike every year or so) is utterly crippling. That said - 2 up on a 4 speed triumph 650 on the open road is hard yakka these days, you sure isn’t the king of the highway any more!

Maintaining and using a classic regularly is a different thing to going modern. If you do put in the effort though I'm convinced it provides a much more satisfying experience. Knowing that every nut and bolt has at some stage had my spanner on it simply adds to the enjoyment. The discipline, dedication and effort required to do it is a personal journey and you need to find your own way because no one starts it or finishes it in the same place. It can be painful and frustrating for sure.

Of course its not the only way - and outsiders will have no idea, its just an old bike to them and they will never understand - a case of he who hears not the music thinks the dancers mad?

[tri boy]

All the tossers wanking on about pre ride checks, wank wank wank, etc etc...........
are holding themselves in too fine a light, on a pedestool miles to high.
Yes, you have/had to do it. Thats cos the engineering was basic at it's best.
That don't make you some hero, or above any other rider.
Hell, I challenge any Trumpy, Maico, Laverda "classic" owner to PULL Start a Wiscosin petrol 25hp stationary engine that was fitted with a "state of the art" magneto.

Old bikes are old bikes, new/newer bikes are just that.
Stop the wanking and take it out for an adventure.

(I'm really getting over the whole bike scene, think Paul has medication for that).

[Dodgyiti]

Excellent rant there Dodgy but how are they different from the enthusiast that turns up with bike on trailer, whats the point if your not going to ride it.Surely this is what bikes are all about?

.

Nah, not fond of that crap either, ride them.

I remember last year at the HB classic club, old dude with Vincent. Only rides it on classic runs- the reason being so that one of the guys can kick it in the guts for him- but at least he is doing his best to ride it. That sort of thing I admire. The trailer queens..oh don't get me started:rolleyes:


Paul
Maintaining and using a classic regularly is a different thing to going modern. If you do put in the effort though I'm convinced it provides a much more satisfying experience. Knowing that every nut and bolt has at some stage had my spanner on it simply adds to the enjoyment. The discipline, dedication and effort required to do it is a personal journey and you need to find your own way because no one starts it or finishes it in the same place. It can be painful and frustrating for sure.

True. Being master of your stuff instead of it mastering you:not:


Honestly I hope they sell truckloads of W800's. They take a 19 front and an 18 rear so it will keep tyre companies making those sizes- bonus for the rest of us


Voltaire
I can't find netural on me Norty

I can't find netural on my Norton either, I thought you borrowed it:weird:

[Motu]

I guess I haven't got a leg to stand on really,I've only ever owned 2 brand new state of the art motorcycles....and that was in 1971 and 1972.Every other bike I've owned has been a has been...I have no right to comment on modern retros.Apart from lack of funds,why on earth would anyone spend 41 years on bikes that were considered old fashioned at the time of ownership? I'm too set in my ways to change now.

[Kickaha]

new designer...Pierre Terreblanche.....designed some of the less popular Ducatis....

You mean all the ugly ones


but if you put in some gym time and lay off the pies you seem to do OK.

That's just crazy talk


All the tossers wanking on about pre ride checks, wank wank wank, etc etc...........

The only thing I check is that it starts

[Voltaire]

All the tossers wanking on about pre ride checks, wank wank wank, etc etc...........
you owe me a beer Dodgy.

[Paul in NZ]

All the tossers wanking on about pre ride checks, wank wank wank, etc etc...........
are holding themselves in too fine a light, on a pedestool miles to high.
Yes, you have/had to do it. Thats cos the engineering was basic at it's best.
That don't make you some hero, or above any other rider.
Hell, I challenge any Trumpy, Maico, Laverda "classic" owner to PULL Start a Wiscosin petrol 25hp stationary engine that was fitted with a "state of the art" magneto.

Old bikes are old bikes, new/newer bikes are just that.
Stop the wanking and take it out for an adventure.

(I'm really getting over the whole bike scene, think Paul has medication for that).

Nope - not at all. But just like I look at some dude dressed like an extra from The Sons of Anarchy or another dripping with knee slidery and team colours from spain and dont understand you dont see the thrill in what we do.

Rebuilding something from the ground up and taking that first ride or solving some problem is a genuine buzz as much as winning a F3 race at manfield on club day... Its just different but no ones pretending anyones better or worse...

[Voltaire]

had a taste of adventure....not a modern one with a full support crew, GPS, mobile phone, email sort ...a real one with no support...just the tools you have, parts you have and nous.

In 1987 I rebuilt my then 17 year old BMW in a lounge in Sydney, shipped it to the UK, spent a whole summer riding around Europe as far east as Turkeys border with Syria, rode it to East Germany to a Rally in the middle of winter and there was snow with a sidecar, took it up to the top of Sweden to the Arctic Circle. Did a gearbox swap on an English High street....
Still have it btw...its in the restore queue.
Did a similar trip in a Kombi van I restored here in the early 00's.....restored that and shipped it too....30 000kms of Euro touring....only had to pull the motor out twice...once in a campground in Wales and once in Berlin....bloody clutchs...
Spent a whole morning once cycling around engineering shops in Monte Casino looking for rocker shaft shims....was given them in the end for free.

If I was doing it again I'd take either the BMW or the Kombi.:banana:

I have had a Commando for about 6 weeks....riding it work every day :drool:
My modern bike is on Trade Me.....
....Must get on to the BMW rebuild....:rolleyes:

[Dodgyiti]

you owe me a beer Dodgy.

No worries Volty, it was a sure bet for you anyway.
I have some of those Stones Ginger Beer 5% or else it will have to be Corona


Voltaire
Corona ain't beer

:clap: Your right, how about a spin through the paddocks in the Corona then?

[Voltaire]

My Corona..

<a href="http://media.photobucket.com/image/macarena smiley/BJ_BOBBI_JO9/Dance and music related/Macrna.gif?o=0" target="_blank"><img src="http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u55/BJ_BOBBI_JO9/Dance%20and%20music%20related/Macrna.gif" border="0"></a> <a href="http://media.photobucket.com/image/macarena smiley/BJ_BOBBI_JO9/Dance and music related/Macrna.gif?o=0" target="_blank"><img src="http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u55/BJ_BOBBI_JO9/Dance%20and%20music%20related/Macrna.gif" border="0"></a>
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<a href="http://media.photobucket.com/image/macarena smiley/BJ_BOBBI_JO9/Dance and music related/Macrna.gif?o=0" target="_blank"><img src="http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u55/BJ_BOBBI_JO9/Dance%20and%20music%20related/Macrna.gif" border="0"></a>
<a href="http://media.photobucket.com/image/macarena smiley/BJ_BOBBI_JO9/Dance and music related/Macrna.gif?o=0" target="_blank"><img src="http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u55/BJ_BOBBI_JO9/Dance%20and%20music%20related/Macrna.gif" border="0"></a>

[Bonez]

Nice Avatar :devil2: Kawasaki will be forever greatfull for the advertising ;)

[Voltaire]

Nice Avatar :devil2: Kawasaki will be forever greatfull for the advertising ;)

If they were to thank me by giving me one for free....I'd happily push my Ducati 900ss out into the rain....:rolleyes: