Use of intermediate wets?

[et al]

Use of Intermediate Wets?
What I want to know is: why are Intermediate Wet tyres not popular?
At VMCC RD1 I noticed some racers went out on "Rain" tyres (Full Wets) onto a drying track. Not questioning why the riders did that because it was a tough call and not everyone has the time, helpers, or wherewithal to change tyres at short notice but result in some cases was destroyed tyres and/or riders not completing full distance. Seems to me that Intermediate Wets could be a better option on those sorts of days when the weather is going to be changeable. I spoke to someone who had recently enquired about Pirelli "Wets" but was told they are not imported anymore because there is no demand for them. So can anyone tell me why there is no demand for the "Wets" ie is there some reason why racers don't want to use them? Any Dealer/Distributor watching and can tell me if any other brand eg Metzeler RACETEC WET (which is same as the Pirelli) is available in NZ?

[steveyb]

IMO cost is the main issue.
Inters would be great in a lot of the wet conditions we end up with, especially at Manfeild cos it dries so quickly in most places.
But that would mean an expensive set of tyres, a spare set of wheels and pit crew to change wheels in quick time.
It is odd however, that the distributors choose to no longer bring in the production rain tyres.
A few years ago everyone wanted them, but many proddy riders do not want the expense of spare wheels.
In any case, an inter is very similar to a race compound DOT tyre when it boils down to it.

[Biggles08]

In any case, an inter is very similar to a race compound DOT tyre when it boils down to it.

Not really actually...the compounds they use are completely different. In the last race for F2 that was red flagged the surface was just getting greasy and no standing water yet...I knew it was going to be carnage after the warm up lap....and I was on Dunlop DOT Prods (211GP's). They were VERY slippery in those conditions. Ideally intermediates would have been preferred and they would have worked a lot different to the Dunlops I had on.

[Tim 39]

I had a set of hand cut slicks for two years on the 125, never used them... so this year I didn't take them, and needed them twice in the first round. For those of you who are about to say that they're no better and blah blah blah. They are better... you take the softest compound available and the cuts in them allow the tyre to move more during its contact period (which heats them up)... the cuts ARE NOT to displace water on a SMALL TYRE as the contact patch is too small to get any aquaplaning unless there's lying water, when you should be on wets anyway. Obviously you need an extra set of spare wheels, a way of cutting them, and also a set of tyres to cut. So it's quite expensive for the little time you'd use them, which is on a damp track.

different tyres handle the wet track differently, on the 125 I felt the Bridgestones were far better on a damp track than the Dunlops because of the softer construction.

But about the question... Intermediates are far too expensive to keep lying around, and you wouldn;t want to use them on a club day because you should re sharpen them after it (not worth it for club racing!)

[cowpoos]

Use of Intermediate Wets?
What I want to know is: why are Intermediate Wet tyres not popular?
At VMCC RD1 I noticed some racers went out on "Rain" tyres (Full Wets) onto a drying track. Not questioning why the riders did that because it was a tough call and not everyone has the time, helpers, or wherewithal to change tyres at short notice but result in some cases was destroyed tyres and/or riders not completing full distance. Seems to me that Intermediate Wets could be a better option on those sorts of days when the weather is going to be changeable. I spoke to someone who had recently enquired about Pirelli "Wets" but was told they are not imported anymore because there is no demand for them. So can anyone tell me why there is no demand for the "Wets" ie is there some reason why racers don't want to use them? Any Dealer/Distributor watching and can tell me if any other brand eg Metzeler RACETEC WET (which is same as the Pirelli) is available in NZ?

In my opinion...If in NZ climate with racing during the winter series's, if a intermedieate tyre is required...I would consider a high quality Road tyre...one with full tread and designed for 1000 cc bikes. it would have a pretty good temp range...and respectable grip!

[Racey Rider]

Our next shipment from Heidenau Germany will have a set of intermediate compound wets in it in the 120 f & 160 r 17" sizes. K73 (http://www.reifenwerk-heidenau.de/modules/reifenliste/view.php?point=3&rtyp=20&PHPSESSID=461bf2392412a91b526d3d17bc39e152&sv=1&profil=139&pic=69)
I was just going to test the market.
Racey.

[et al]

Thanks for your replies so far everyone. To explain further.... I actually have Intermediates and started using them during last year's VMCC series. Last Saturday I used them for the Qualifying session (wet track) and then in the 10 lap Clubmans race (dry track) during which I set a good time (for me). I have not seen anyone else using Intermediates but I swear by them and am concerned that I might not be able to get any more so that is mainly why I am interested in what other people think at the moment. I do not have "Rain" (full wet) tyres or plan to use them at all because I figure that if the conditions are bad enough to need those then I would rather not go out at all. So in my situation having the Intermediates for the damp/changeable (or wet if I feel brave enough) track conditions and Slicks or DOT tyres for the dry is working out OK for me. Taking on board what Cowpoos says maybe for the future I should consider using a "full tread" road tyre in place of the Intermediates. I am guessing by "full tread" you mean something with more/deeper tread than tyres like Supercorsa or the 211GP's that Biggles08 used? Bearing that in mind does anyone have any opinions or recommendations on which brand/type of "full tread" tyre would be good for me to use on a damp/wet track?

[Kiwi Graham]

Used to run Michelin Inters alot in the UK during winter (dry) or as was more usual on a dry day but on a track that would not dry. Running wets would have muntered them and slicks would have lost too much temp. Tread pattern similar to supermoto tyres (cut slicks)

[Shaun]

Pirelli Diablo Corsa 111. These are exellent in damp ie, Intermediate conditions

[Toast]

Ask Paul Duncan – I forget his KB name – how he found using Pilot Power 2CTs in the wet at a Manfeild race meeting. Didn’t have a load of fun if I recall correctly.

Using your spare set of rims for a set of road tyres seems a waste to me. The advantage in grip they have over race DOTs in damp would be nowhere near the advantage that full rains have over the road tyres if it gets a bit more wet.

And if conditions do get ‘bad enough’ that you wouldn’t go out on full rains anyway…they’re about to close the track. Racing on full rain tyres in the pissing rain is a mind fk at first, but is totally awesome! Your eyes tell you that you should be going slower but everything underneath you feels so good!

[Norton54]

I tried Dunlop Q2s at Manfeild last weekend for the first time when I couldn't get Pirelli Intermediates. I wanted these specially for the winter series when it's mostly cold and wet and I only run the one set of tyres. Had to scrub in for the wet practice so couldn't try them out properly, but they went fine in the mixed conditions the rest of the day. I had SuperCorsas before and the Q2 has a slightly different profile that tipped in better at the hairpin. I'm not very hard on my tyres and have yet to see how they wear but I certainly felt confident in the damp.

[et al]

Thanks for all the replies. I tried Rain tyres (Metzelers) for the first time at VMCC RD4 and was very pleased with them - totally confidence inspiring in those conditions. I still believe Intermediates have their place but the weather we have encountered at each round so far definitely dictates the need for the Rains/"full wet" tyres.