Watchdog slams police over child abuse cases

[Bounce001]

"A damning report into the police handling of child abuse cases shows at least one district prioritised traffic fines ahead of child abuse investigations". (Rest of article on link below).

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10645792

What is the country coming to when the Police are more worried about taxing us for going a couple of km's over the speed limit than following up on reports of child abuse.

[98tls]

I would be more concerned over the amount of reported child abuse cases myself,you might have issues with how the cops prioritise things sure but bottom line is as a society NZs on its way down the shitter.

[blackdog]

"It was noted that staff were often required to attend to other investigative work that, in some instances, included directions to assist in meeting road policing targets," the IPCA report found.

see, there are no quotas.........just targets

[Bounce001]

I would be more concerned over the amount of reported child abuse cases myself,you might have issues with how the cops prioritise things sure but bottom line is as a society NZs on its way down the shitter.

Yep, that too. Hundreds of "missing" files is just dodgy. And these are the people that have sworn to protect us!

[slofox]

I would be more concerned over the amount of reported child abuse cases myself,you might have issues with how the cops prioritise things sure but bottom line is as a society NZs on its way down the shitter.

Weeeeellll.... I wonder about that 98tls...part of me agrees and part doesn't.

My own belief is that child abuse has always been with us. 30 years ago when I was teaching in rural Norfland, I came across just as much child abuse as I hear about now. And 50 years ago, when I was myself a young whippersnapper, there was plenty of it going on in my neighbourhood.

I think we are more aware of it now - back in the day, a lot of it was swept under the carpet. We are more likely to have it reported and publicized now than we were then. Increased reporting may or may not indicate increased occurance. It could be that we are less tolerant now than then and make more noise about what we do detect.

I would like to know just how many cases there are per head of population now compared with, say, 50 years ago. But I doubt such figures would be accurate even if available because I have no doubt that a lot of it still goes undetected, sadly enough.

Our definitions of child abuse have also changed. My old man would, these days, be accused of child abuse for the way he dished out physical punishments with lumps of wood or whatever else he could lay his hands on at the time. But back then, that was the norm. Everybody seemed to do it - hell we even got our hands belted with lumps of bamboo for making spelling mistakes at school...

But I do agree with the OP - I would prioritize child abuse over traffic enforcement every time. But then traffic enforcement is a lot easier to do innit? Not that I am cynical or anything you unnerstand...

[Scuba_Steve]

The problem is child abuse cases can involve alot of effort & they don't bring in the profits like traffic enforcement. The only way to get the P.I.G's to actively chase child abuse cases is to put a decent monetary value (profit) on it. Its pathetically sad but its true!

[miloking]

Whats this...police bashing time???

[peasea]

Whats this...police bashing time???

Yippee, I'm in.

I love this bit; "obviously Child Abuse is not an area of importance for the Police, as opposed to other areas, such as Traffic, which is"

Fuckwits.

[Squiggles]

when the Police are more worried about taxing us for going a couple of km's over the speed limit

This line must be as popular as waving threads...

[miloking]

Yippee, I'm in.

I love this bit; "obviously Child Abuse is not an area of importance for the Police, as opposed to other areas, such as Traffic, which is"

Fuckwits.

Its kind of no fun when our piggie crew (you know who you are :D) are not here to tell us how child abuse is not as important as obeying traffic laws...i mean you gotta be finaly ashamed of what has your job become right???? (just like working for IRD but also driving holden while collecting the money)
i guess this topic doesnt inspire smart as trolling comments from them for once...

[peasea]

Its kind of no fun when our piggie crew (you know who you are :D) are not here to tell us how child abuse is not as important as obeying traffic laws...i mean you gotta be finaly ashamed of what has your job become right???? (just like working for IRD but also driving holden while collecting the money)
i guess this topic doesnt inspire smart as trolling comments from them for once...

From that we can only assume that the report is 100% correct and that the situation has been brought about by the fact that there is no money in 'real' policing. The real money is in traffic infringement notices and their associated quotas, syphoning money from otherwise law-abiding people. It's easy money and so much easier to obtain when the national speed limit is set at an unrealistically low figure (for so many areas). If they placed a fine-gathering infringement notice on child abuse cases in NZ they'd rake in a fortune.

[crazyhorse]

They introduced that stupid "no smaking" law to prevent child abuse - which 99% of NZ'ers knew would make no difference to those who abuse.

Sad thing is, we now have the next generation of smart arses coming through, wimps who need to be driven to school, text on cellphones all day long, can't play in trees, and don't know how to lose a game of rugby.

I for one would rather any case of real child abuse gets checked out - and hopefully prevent the next child death out there

[miloking]

They introduced that stupid "no smaking" law to prevent child abuse - which 99% of NZ'ers knew would make no difference to those who abuse.

Sad thing is, we now have the next generation of smart arses coming through, wimps who need to be driven to school, text on cellphones all day long, can't play in trees, and don't know how to lose a game of rugby.

I for one would rather any case of real child abuse gets checked out - and hopefully prevent the next child death out there

Well no smacking law prevents child abuse just fine....just like DUI law prevents drink driving doesnt it :D so kids are safe, in fact we are all safe....
I guess now we just need anti suicide law to stop depresed teens killing themselves, anti-tax advoidance law so there is more money in a budget and we will have it all sorted here in good ol'EnZed....

[miloking]

reading this IPCA report today...just shocking! (but not all that surprised)

[Mr Merde]

.... And these are the people that have sworn to protect us!

Wrong they have sworn to uphold the Law of the land. There is no way in hell that they are able to protect us. By the nature of the job they are reactive not proactive.

According to the UN and every other Bill of rights your fundamental right is tio protect yourself not ask the police to do it.

[Spearfish]

Seems the herald is the most accurate form of information there ever was...today anyway because its not about a biker bin.

Explain how a cop could stop an infant being stuffed down the back of a sofa where it died? As sick as that sounds it happened.
You should probably be asking where did the extra thousand sworn officers go, into admin or the front line?
Seems some bikers are more scared of a little piece of paper than killing themselves.

[avgas]

I haven't had a ticket in years. Therefore child abuse should be non-existent in NZ using your theories.

[SMOKEU]

There is always 2 sides to every story. The media are only telling one half of it.

[miloking]

Seems the herald is the most accurate form of information there ever was...today anyway because its not about a biker bin.

Explain how a cop could stop an infant being stuffed down the back of a sofa where it died? As sick as that sounds it happened.
You should probably be asking where did the extra thousand sworn officers go, into admin or the front line?
Seems some bikers are more scared of a little piece of paper than killing themselves.

He could! If he has fucking piece of paper somewhere in a pile of shit on his desk that says that neighbours called few times to report child crying and seeing the child with bruises etc....prior to some "couch stuffing" or "clothes dryer accident"! Nobody just kills their "well looked after" child one day out of blue...there are always some signs and there is always someone who notices those, but its up to police to act! ...at least go knock on the door and ask some questions!
and if he is too busy because he has to knock on too many doors..he should tell his boss who will tell his boss and then they can get more funding to hire more cops
....on the other hand if he is too busy chasing "speeding utes" to give them tickets,
what can they say?
admit that quotas are keeping them too busy????

And it should be nobodys business if i "want" to kill myselft or not (i dont by the way)....also that little piece of paper is not given to me to "save" my life, we all know that!

[Bald Eagle]

There is always 2 sides to every story. The media are only telling one half of it.

Actually there's four , 1. His 2. Hers 3. The truth 4. The media version

[Pixie]

Meh,convicting a kiddie killer/rapist never paid for 1 police car or speed camera

[BoristheBiter]

He could! If he has fucking piece of paper somewhere in a pile of shit on his desk that says that neighbours called few times to report child crying and seeing the child with bruises etc....prior to some "couch stuffing" or "clothes dryer accident"! Nobody just kills their "well looked after" child one day out of blue...there are always some signs and there is always someone who notices those, but its up to police to act! ...at least go knock on the door and ask some questions!
and if he is too busy because he has to knock on too many doors..he should tell his boss who will tell his boss and then they can get more funding to hire more cops
....on the other hand if he is too busy chasing "speeding utes" to give them tickets,
what can they say?
admit that quotas are keeping them too busy????


If it was just that simple.
for the police to act there has to be a complaint. it gets looked into and if no one says anything then it gets handed to CYFS to follow up.
maybe you should have a good rant about how shit they are but then i guess that would just get in the way of another cop bashing thread.

[miloking]

If it was just that simple.
for the police to act there has to be a complaint. it gets looked into and if no one says anything then it gets handed to CYFS to follow up.
maybe you should have a good rant about how shit they are but then i guess that would just get in the way of another cop bashing thread.

It definately would get in a way..also i dont realy get many tickets from CYFS while they should be out there protecting people....

[Toaster]

Meh,convicting a kiddie killer/rapist never paid for 1 police car or speed camera

Nobody likes a cost-centre. Sad but true. Sorry, can't elaborate in open forum!

[BoristheBiter]

It definately would get in a way..also i dont realy get many tickets from CYFS while they should be out there protecting people....

Why, do you get a lot of tickets then?

[jahrasti]

It definately would get in a way..also i dont realy get many tickets from CYFS while they should be out there protecting people....

So you are saying that Police should drop Road Policing altogether? Sweet they should do it, so there can be another daming report in the future.

If all those Police were taken off Road Policing and put into other areas would it make the difference that you expect as I get the idea that whatever is done you will moan like a bitch about.

Any Police officer could conduct a basic investigation however this area of investigation often takes specialised training and is very indepth.

A civil engineer that builds roads should then be able to do all forms of specialised civil engineering by your thinking?

The questioning of young people is conducted by once again specialised agencies, not just the Police. Guess what that takes time, but dont worry that will give you something else to bitch about, Infact wait I just had a thought, we should take all the Police that do Beat and Team Policing in City Centres and put them into investigating child abuse claims. After all, those fucken pigs ruin people's night by arresting them for Breach of Liqour ban, Disorderly Behaviour, Detox etc. If I want to get as drunk as I want and go into town and act however I want, I should be able to, that is my right isn't it?

How do you think the Police should go about their work when the families that are under investigation refuse to talk or clam up.

Just think your ideas could revolutionise the way Police work and we could all hail you a hero.

[Spearfish]

He could! If he has fucking piece of paper somewhere in a pile of shit on his desk that says that neighbours called few times to report child crying and seeing the child with bruises etc....prior to some "couch stuffing" or "clothes dryer accident"! Nobody just kills their "well looked after" child one day out of blue...there are always some signs and there is always someone who notices those, but its up to police to act! ...at least go knock on the door and ask some questions!
and if he is too busy because he has to knock on too many doors..he should tell his boss who will tell his boss and then they can get more funding to hire more cops
....on the other hand if he is too busy chasing "speeding utes" to give them tickets,
what can they say?
admit that quotas are keeping them too busy????

And it should be nobodys business if i "want" to kill myselft or not (i dont by the way)....also that little piece of paper is not given to me to "save" my life, we all know that!

So what's your solution to road policing considering at the moment there are very very few restrictions?
For the most part roads are self governed, they cant be everywhere all the time, I'm not sure there is enough maturity for that to ever start working.

We have the freedom to learn how to ride anyway we like, no compulsion to learn anything formally (some say that's not working)
A new rider with a shiny new class six licence can buy anything and go ride it straight off the showroom floor, with no compulsion to up skill.
I can take the speed limiter off the bike (I use 300+kph every day?)
I can customise the thing adding or taking away from its safety performance.
I can build my own one out of almost anything.
It goes on.

So what's the alternative?

[miloking]

Why, do you get a lot of tickets then?

"many" is a relative number...i think i get too many, but true is its quite a few they are mostly just retarded accusations, the latest one is...."incorrectly mounted" plate on my CBR (i have photo album of my bike so you can be the judge) - $200 and 25 Demerit points....real manace to society for sure, that dickhead copper saved you all by giving me that ticket
...also that was the only reason why i got pulled over, no speeding, etc.
so tell me its not all about money....

[miloking]

So what's your solution to road policing considering at the moment there are very very few restrictions?
For the most part roads are self governed, they cant be everywhere all the time, I'm not sure there is enough maturity for that to ever start working.

We have the freedom to learn how to ride anyway we like, no compulsion to learn anything formally (some say that's not working)
A new rider with a shiny new class six licence can buy anything and go ride it straight off the showroom floor, with no compulsion to up skill.
I can take the speed limiter off the bike (I use 300+kph every day?)
I can customise the thing adding or taking away from its safety performance.
I can build my own one out of almost anything.
It goes on.

So what's the alternative?

There is always, the nice sensible "middle" option.... policing as is but some fucking discretion from police!
I personaly got in last 2 years 2x tickets for 61km/h ...1x ticket for 63km/h ...1x ticket for incorectly mounted plate
...no other speeding tickets, not a single time was i just told off or given warning
My point is, i expect to ge ticket for 150km/h but for 61 seriously???????

(also those were not "discounted" tickets from like 70 or 80 km/h...they were the actual speeds!!!!)

[miloking]

So you are saying that Police should drop Road Policing altogether? Sweet they should do it, so there can be another daming report in the future.

If all those Police were taken off Road Policing and put into other areas would it make the difference that you expect as I get the idea that whatever is done you will moan like a bitch about.

Any Police officer could conduct a basic investigation however this area of investigation often takes specialised training and is very indepth.

A civil engineer that builds roads should then be able to do all forms of specialised civil engineering by your thinking?

The questioning of young people is conducted by once again specialised agencies, not just the Police. Guess what that takes time, but dont worry that will give you something else to bitch about, Infact wait I just had a thought, we should take all the Police that do Beat and Team Policing in City Centres and put them into investigating child abuse claims. After all, those fucken pigs ruin people's night by arresting them for Breach of Liqour ban, Disorderly Behaviour, Detox etc. If I want to get as drunk as I want and go into town and act however I want, I should be able to, that is my right isn't it?

How do you think the Police should go about their work when the families that are under investigation refuse to talk or clam up.

Just think your ideas could revolutionise the way Police work and we could all hail you a hero.

Your comment is almost not worth acknowledgement but anyway....nobody said stop road policing altogether!!!! But fucking prioritise, if you have pile of paper on your desk of child abuse, unsolved burglaries, car thefts etc....you should not be sitting in your Holden somewhere behind the bridge with laser gun!!!!

AND NOBODY needs special training to knock on a door and say...."why does you child have bruises on his/her face" !!!!

[BoristheBiter]

"many" is a relative number...i think i get too many, but true is its quite a few they are mostly just retarded accusations, the latest one is...."incorrectly mounted" plate on my CBR (i have photo album of my bike so you can be the judge) - $200 and 25 Demerit points....real manace to society for sure, that dickhead copper saved you all by giving me that ticket
...also that was the only reason why i got pulled over, no speeding, etc.
so tell me its not all about money....

Its not about the money. :)


the cop that gave you that ticket (not starting if it is right or wrong) does not get the money so where is the insentive for him to give you that ticket in the first place, oh thats right, that is his job.
If his job is child abuse and he is giving you that ticket than that is not how he should be spending his time but if he is on STU then thats what he should be doing.
All cops have different fields in which they work and to bag the whole department for the work, or lack of, that was spent on child abuse cases was very irresponsible.

[BoristheBiter]

There is always, the nice sensible "middle" option.... policing as is but some fucking discretion from police!
I personaly got in last 2 years 2x tickets for 61km/h ...1x ticket for 63km/h ...1x ticket for incorectly mounted plate
...no other speeding tickets, not a single time was i just told off or given warning
My point is, i expect to ge ticket for 150km/h but for 61 seriously???????

Your doing 11 and 13km over the speed limit. why do you think you should get off it?

[miloking]

Its not about the money. :)


the cop that gave you that ticket (not starting if it is right or wrong) does not get the money so where is the insentive for him to give you that ticket in the first place, oh thats right, that is his job.
If his job is child abuse and he is giving you that ticket than that is not how he should be spending his time but if he is on STU then thats what he should be doing.
All cops have different fields in which they work and to bag the whole department for the work, or lack of, that was spent on child abuse cases was very irresponsible.

What about "hate" for motorcyclists...because we are all bunch of criminals so we deserve to get ticketed for whatever they can ping on you? Could that be a reason?

also what are "road policing targets" ...i hear that term a lot these days?

So another incentive..."i give all the stupid tickets i can in a morning and then i can spend my afternoon sleeping in a holden behind the donut shop"...just a human nature realy!

[miloking]

Your doing 11 and 13km over the speed limit. why do you think you should get off it?

Because its a retarded* "limit" created for things that cannot stop fast enough or have too much mass (like bus or trucks)

*(retarded = arbitrary)

[BoristheBiter]

Because its a retarded "limit" created for things that cannot stop fast enough or have too much mass (like bus or trucks)

whether or not it is retarded is not the point, you were going over the limit and thats that. we have all had dumb tickets, and i've had a few, but we speed and tickets are the cost of speeding. The discretion is 10km over.

[miloking]

whether or not it is retarded is not the point, you were going over the limit and thats that. we have all had dumb tickets, and i've had a few, but we speed and tickets are the cost of speeding. The discretion is 10km over.

Yes i fully agree with "thats that" and "cost of speeding" ....

but...."dont piss on my leg and call it a rain" (*police speed kills add campain)....its nothing to do with "safety" and thats all iam getting angry about.

Also it should not be priority "work" over anything else that police should be doing!

[BoristheBiter]

What about "hate" for motorcyclists...because we are all bunch of criminals so we deserve to get ticketed for whatever they can ping on you? Could that be a reason?

also what are "road policing targets" ...i hear that term a lot these days?

So another incentive..."i give all the stupid tickets i can in a morning and then i can spend my afternoon sleeping in a holden behind the donut shop"...just a human nature realy!

I don't know about this "hate for bikes" thing as i know a few and non target bikes any differently than cars but you will always get them like the ginja nazi who's day is made if he takes somone licence off them,

As for the tagets they go along the lines of one contact every 15 mins or somthing like that. so even if you give out a shit load of tickets in the morning you still have to work in the afternoon.

[BoristheBiter]

Yes i fully agree with "thats that" and "cost of speeding" ....

but...."dont piss on my leg and call it a rain"....its nothing to do with "safety" and thats all iam getting angry about.

Also it should not be priority "work" over anything else that police should be doing!

again read the above posts about different fields of work within the police.
They have to come from somewhere and lets face it there just arn't enough to go around.

[SMOKEU]

Actually there's four , 1. His 2. Hers 3. The truth 4. The media version

I stand corrected.

[Smifffy]

If you don't like the herald reporting, the IPCA report is http://www.ipca.govt.nz/Site/Child-Abuse-Inquiry/default.aspx.

Clearly the IPCA are a bunch of hippies and sadly out of touch with the reality of life in NZ. Recently they released their report on the killing of Navtej Singh, which was ignored/discounted by at least two senior officers. Numerous times they have recommended that changes be made to police pursuit procedures, and we now know how much heed the force has paid to any of those recommendations. Now this.

The IPCA should be disbanded and their budget used to buy more speed cameras and ticket books. We might as well wind down CYFS while we're at it. Lower the speed limit back to 80 km/h like it used to be if speed kills so badly. I have never been beaten in cells, laid dying waiting for an ambulance, or been investigated for child abuse. Every time I've received a speeding ticket I have been at least 1, but no more than 16 km/h over the limit, clearly deserved it. The police do a fine job and are daily faced with armed murderous mobsters according to one heart-rending video I saw posted recently.

Stupid frikken IPCA and bleeding heart hippies at the herald.

[Jonno.]

again read the above posts about different fields of work within the police.
They have to come from somewhere and lets face it there just arn't enough to go around.

Read this: police get taken away from child abuse cases to meet traffic targets.
The fact that that is being allowed reflects on the police.
Police hand out tickets for minor speeding offences ie 61km which damages their reputation when a warning would suffice or would you be happy getting tickets for going 51km because I hate to tell you that's illegal too. Fortunately most officers use their DISCRETION.

Are you saying we should invest more people in the police so they can catch the speeders so the others can do their job of catching child abusers?
Why don't they get their priorities right?

[Spearfish]

If you don't like the herald reporting, the IPCA report is http://www.ipca.govt.nz/Site/Child-Abuse-Inquiry/default.aspx.

Clearly the IPCA are a bunch of hippies and sadly out of touch with the reality of life in NZ. Recently they released their report on the killing of Navtej Singh, which was ignored/discounted by at least two senior officers. Numerous times they have recommended that changes be made to police pursuit procedures, and we now know how much heed the force has paid to any of those recommendations. Now this.

The IPCA should be disbanded and their budget used to buy more speed cameras and ticket books. We might as well wind down CYFS while we're at it. Lower the speed limit back to 80 km/h like it used to be if speed kills so badly. I have never been beaten in cells, laid dying waiting for an ambulance, or been investigated for child abuse. Every time I've received a speeding ticket I have been at least 1, but no more than 16 km/h over the limit, clearly deserved it. The police do a fine job and are daily faced with armed murderous mobsters according to one heart-rending video I saw posted recently.

Stupid frikken IPCA and bleeding heart hippies at the herald.

I sense a hint of sarcasm mixed a bit humour. LoL

Just as a side thing I would recommend going on a ride'a'long with the police.
It has to be Friday, Sat night and in a major town with a GDB car. (south auckland is the best)
Then perhaps start a thread to share the experience?
It will answer many questions, dispel many myths, create many more questions, and probably sicken you to your core.
For those who seem to need a nemesis, know thy enemy.

[miloking]

For those who seem to need a nemesis, know thy enemy.

Haha funny!

I always wanted to go for one of those rides....but i dont think i can do it, its like 6 hours in car with them(they are probably still human beings like you and me but still...) i would have to cringe everytime they would be giving someone speeding ticket...and little voice on the inside would want to scream "go catch the real criminals"....

[jahrasti]

Your comment is almost not worth acknowledgement but anyway....nobody said stop road policing altogether!!!! But fucking prioritise, if you have pile of paper on your desk of child abuse, unsolved burglaries, car thefts etc....you should not be sitting in your Holden somewhere behind the bridge with laser gun!!!!

AND NOBODY needs special training to knock on a door and say...."why does you child have bruises on his/her face" !!!!

Sticks and stones.

Now I find your comment exactly shows that you have no idea.

Thats right anyone can knock on a door and ask any question they want. So if they say that the child fell over at school then sweet is that the end of it? If thats the case then there should be no paper work in the Police. Sounds like a winner to me.

I ask a serious question here, right here we go. Do you really think that cops that work in areas other than Road Policing, to quote you "if you have pile of paper on your desk of child abuse, unsolved burglaries, car thefts etc....you should not be sitting in your Holden somewhere behind the bridge with laser gun!!!!" Do you think that they worry about sitting under a bridge with a laser gun?

If you honestly wonder why the Police on this site don't answer your shit it is because you would never agree with anything thats said.

Big deal you got a stupid ticket about a number plate. Then defend it, it is your right after all. While your are doing that have the law changed so that particular piece of law is no longer reuired after all it is a silly ticket isn't it?

While you are at it you could go through and get rid of any other silly laws.

[BoristheBiter]

Read this: police get taken away from child abuse cases to meet traffic targets.
The fact that that is being allowed reflects on the police.
Police hand out tickets for minor speeding offences ie 61km which damages their reputation when a warning would suffice or would you be happy getting tickets for going 51km because I hate to tell you that's illegal too. Fortunately most officers use their DISCRETION.

Are you saying we should invest more people in the police so they can catch the speeders so the others can do their job of catching child abusers?
Why don't they get their priorities right?


It was miloking that was crying about getting the ticket and discretion.

If you are going to go down that road we should be having a go at the courts. If offenders were put away for life then that would take them off the streets so not likely to offend again so manpower to go round.

What i am trying to get at is the ones at the top dictate where the cops are put and what manhours are spent on what job. if the ones that are looking at child abuse aren't doing that then they should get there arse kicked, but it was becomeing another cop bashing thread.

[jahrasti]

Haha funny!

I always wanted to go for one of those rides....but i dont think i can do it, its like 6 hours in car with them(they are probably still human beings like you and me but still...) i would have to cringe everytime they would be giving someone speeding ticket...and little voice on the inside would want to scream "go catch the real criminals"....

Did he say Road Policing? No he said a GDB car. See as usual you are stuck key holed into your narrow perspective of life.

[BoristheBiter]

Haha funny!

I always wanted to go for one of those rides....but i dont think i can do it, its like 6 hours in car with them(they are probably still human beings like you and me but still...) i would have to cringe everytime they would be giving someone speeding ticket...and little voice on the inside would want to scream "go catch the real criminals"....

I think you should as you seem to have no idea of what cops do during the day.
STU is the traffic side along with motorways and GDB is the dealing with all the other shit.
Oh and its 8-12 hours in the car.

[jahrasti]

Read this: police get taken away from child abuse cases to meet traffic targets.
The fact that that is being allowed reflects on the police.
Police hand out tickets for minor speeding offences ie 61km which damages their reputation when a warning would suffice or would you be happy getting tickets for going 51km because I hate to tell you that's illegal too. Fortunately most officers use their DISCRETION.

Are you saying we should invest more people in the police so they can catch the speeders so the others can do their job of catching child abusers?
Why don't they get their priorities right?


Yeah we should invest more people in the Police. The popo's here are amoung the smallest cop to normal person ratio in the developed world.

[jahrasti]

I think you should as you seem to have no idea of what cops do during the day.
STU is the traffic side along with motorways and GDB is the dealing with all the other shit.

Na put him in with the child abuse team. hahaha

Man I crack me up

[miloking]

Sticks and stones.

Now I find your comment exactly shows that you have no idea.

Thats right anyone can knock on a door and ask any question they want. So if they say that the child fell over at school then sweet is that the end of it? If thats the case then there should be no paper work in the Police. Sounds like a winner to me.

.

NO thats not it, if the child has bruises again week later, something is wrong and bring out the "limited resource" cops that can investigate properly!





I ask a serious question here, right here we go. Do you really think that cops that work in areas other than Road Policing, to quote you "if you have pile of paper on your desk of child abuse, unsolved burglaries, car thefts etc....you should not be sitting in your Holden somewhere behind the bridge with laser gun!!!!" Do you think that they worry about sitting under a bridge with a laser gun?

.

No they probably dont, but who knows what directives they get..iam merely refering to the IPCA findings of "resources" being diverted to meet "road policing targets"...




If you honestly wonder why the Police on this site don't answer your shit it is because you would never agree with anything thats said.

.


What about this just to show as example of how wrong you are...


Yes i fully agree with "thats that" and "cost of speeding" .....

As much as i agree with you...i think you guys need to get new word

What do you say? and there are many more...you dont know me at all so dont assume that i dont agree with anybody just because i dont agree with bad policing...





Big deal you got a stupid ticket about a number plate. Then defend it, it is your right after all. While your are doing that have the law changed so that particular piece of law is no longer reuired after all it is a silly ticket isn't it?

While you are at it you could go through and get rid of any other silly laws.

Requested court apperance and going on 25th May! Of course i will fight those idiots and their money collecting scheme!

[jahrasti]

NO thats not it, if the child has bruises again week later, something is wrong and bring out the "limited resource" cops that can investigate properly!

And if the same answer is given then what? The point I am making is that serious accusations take SERIOUS investigating. You can't talk to everyone at any time. If the Police were to take the person to court unprepared and they got off would you then be bitching about that?
No they probably dont, but who knows what directives they get..iam merely refering to the IPCA findings of "resources" being diverted to meet "road policing targets"...

How many resources then? Does one theiving banker make them all theives?




You seem to brand all popos as traffic cops

[Mr Merde]

Yeah we should invest more people in the Police. The popo's here are amoung the smallest cop to normal person ratio in the developed world.

Approximately 10,000 police officers in NZ to enforce the laws both legal and "their interpretation"

About 8500 armed service personel to protect and defend the country an its population.

Why do we need more to control us than to protect us?

[peasea]

I think you should as you seem to have no idea of what cops do during the day.
STU is the traffic side along with motorways and GDB is the dealing with all the other shit.
Oh and its 8-12 hours in the car.

I managed to do an 'observer' stint for a shift with a couple of Auckland bobbies on a Saturday night. What a fuckin' joke. Driving around, doing fuck all for the most part, went to one domestic where some boozed-up jiggaboo had clocked his wife but by the time we got there she had decided not to press charges, waste of police time if you ask me. Cornered a tranny who'd lifted someones clothes (they used a dog in the end and terroised the tranny) and the big bust of the night was a carload of teens parked up a hill smoking a joint. They tipped the car out, searched it, found a tinny with less than sfa pot in it, nailed the driver, took his keys and left the remainder up the hill to fend for themselves. The cops thought it was funny, I thought it was typical of their bullshit attitudes but I digress. The driver was processed, which took ages, then released without having to go to a cell (I think they were all full) but he was forbidden to drive coz they beleived he was 'under the influence' although he denied smoking anything, just possessing. He was broke, they knew this coz they tipped his pockets out, then kicked him out of Auckland Central at 1.00am with no dosh. Knobs. It was a major fuck around for what would not have even been enough pot to roll a spliff.

Big time cops or what? Ok, it's against the law and the driver MIGHT have had a toke, but ffs, they coulda just confiscated it and kicked them all out of the car together, at least that way they might have had some way to wangle a ride home, but no....

Before that night I thought cops were tossers. That just confirmed it.

[miloking]

You seem to brand all popos as traffic cops

OK i understand that there is "TRAFFIC" cops and real police out there...my issue here is mostly with the traffic "police" but...the line is blurred a little when they can "pull" the resources as they see fit...so one day "child abuse" cop is a traffic cop next day (on whim of a boss who needs to meet quota) so as far iam concerned they are all traffic cops in disguise.

(armed squad guys are another story)

[jahrasti]

Approximately 10,000 police officers in NZ to enforce the laws both legal and "their interpretation"

About 8500 armed service personel to protect and defend the country an its population.

Why do we need more to control us than to protect us?

I agree. It is because we hide behind the coat tails of Australia's Defence force that our Military is so under manned/resourced.

The LAV is a good vehicle when used properly, however it is good for fuck all when used by itself.


We have more Police than peeps in the Military, big deal. As I said the number of popo's to peeps is alot less in this country than others.

That means that resources are going to get pooled at times. Do you think the cops involved liked it?

[jahrasti]

OK i understand that there is "TRAFFIC" cops and real police out there...my issue here is mostly with the traffic "police" but...the line is blurred a little when they can "pull" the resources as they see fit...so one day "child abuse" cop is a traffic cop next day (on whim of a boss who needs to meet quota) so as far iam concerned they are all traffic cops in disguise.

(armed squad guys are another story)

So how often are the resources pooled? What if other cops other than traffic have to help out at the field days, or beach Policing over christmas or even a bad car/bike crash.

The stations involved that you talk about are smaller stations where they might have to relieve sometimes.

A detective could issue traffic tickets (albiet he would be so out of practice that he would probably get it wrong and the person would get off :innocent:) but certain Police could not investigate serious cases of abuse.

So is the next tirade against the AOS?

[scumdog]

Your doing 11 and 13km over the speed limit. why do you think you should get off it?

same reason why he probably thinks you should get off if you're 11 to 13% over the breath alcohol limit???:doh:

[Smifffy]

same reason why he probably thinks you should get off if you're 11 to 13% over the breath alcohol limit???:doh:

Or 11 to 13% over the bruises on the kid's back limit?

But really here we go again, all this blame shifting, excuse making, mobster video posting bullshit. I've been riding with cops before, and they were on completely the wrong side of town from where they were meant to be and had to hoon like fuck to respond to a call they were meant to respond to. 100K up Cook St was kinda fun.

Rather than all of this, why doesn't the force man up, take the recommendations on board and move on?

Or else admit that they are in no way interested in changing, that the ICPA recommendations are that;- only recommendations, and just keep on handing out tickets. Oh wait....

Probably for the same reason the hippy herald likes to pick out a couple of disparaging looking sentences from the overall report, and sell some ad space.

[BoristheBiter]

I managed to do an 'observer' stint for a shift with a couple of Auckland bobbies on a Saturday night. What a fuckin' joke. Driving around, doing fuck all for the most part, went to one domestic where some boozed-up jiggaboo had clocked his wife but by the time we got there she had decided not to press charges, waste of police time if you ask me. Cornered a tranny who'd lifted someones clothes (they used a dog in the end and terroised the tranny) and the big bust of the night was a carload of teens parked up a hill smoking a joint. They tipped the car out, searched it, found a tinny with less than sfa pot in it, nailed the driver, took his keys and left the remainder up the hill to fend for themselves. The cops thought it was funny, I thought it was typical of their bullshit attitudes but I digress. The driver was processed, which took ages, then released without having to go to a cell (I think they were all full) but he was forbidden to drive coz they beleived he was 'under the influence' although he denied smoking anything, just possessing. He was broke, they knew this coz they tipped his pockets out, then kicked him out of Auckland Central at 1.00am with no dosh. Knobs. It was a major fuck around for what would not have even been enough pot to roll a spliff.

Big time cops or what? Ok, it's against the law and the driver MIGHT have had a toke, but ffs, they coulda just confiscated it and kicked them all out of the car together, at least that way they might have had some way to wangle a ride home, but no....

Before that night I thought cops were tossers. That just confirmed it.

So what do you think they should be doing?
I felt like having a bit of a rant but then you so so anti cops and so closed minded so whats the point.
we would so worse off if they weren't there to sort this shit out, and yes there are some tossers out there as there is in any job.
The media will find anything that will sell their story, whether or not it is true is beside the point and when MOT became police just made it worse.

[peasea]

So what do you think they should be doing?
I felt like having a bit of a rant but then you so so anti cops and so closed minded so whats the point.

Helping old ladies cross the street?

No, go ahead, have a rant, be my guest. I do it all the time and feel so much better afterward.

Tell you what; you have a rant, I'll go get a cold beer and we see who finishes first, ok?

[The Stranger]

see, there are no quotas.........just targets

Well surely they have quotas too for solving real crimes don't they?

[miloking]

Well surely they have quotas too for solving real crimes don't they?

One would hope so...but since speeding is "real" crime as far as they are concerned i think as long as tickets are being handed out at rate 1x/15min ...job well done!

[miloking]

same reason why he probably thinks you should get off if you're 11 to 13% over the breath alcohol limit???:doh:

No i dont! i dont drink...but while we are at it, alcohol does different things to different people so 11% over for me is different to 11% for you...so again arbitrary limit, but since cop cannot "judge" personal tolerance to alcohol by looking at a person i do understand we do need some limits.

Speed is different tho, me traveling on my 176Kg (+fluids) bike at 61km is completely different to 25ton 18 Wheeler full of donuts doing the same speed...so thats where YOU should use your brain and discretion when handing out the tickets....
but since you've never heard of things like kinetic energy (5th form) or stopping distance i think you have no idea what iam talking about....

[miloking]

So how often are the resources pooled? What if other cops other than traffic have to help out at the field days, or beach Policing over christmas or even a bad car/bike crash.

The stations involved that you talk about are smaller stations where they might have to relieve sometimes.

A detective could issue traffic tickets (albiet he would be so out of practice that he would probably get it wrong and the person would get off :innocent:) but certain Police could not investigate serious cases of abuse.

So is the next tirade against the AOS?

Ok Yes i understand that they need to "help" out with things..on holidays or in case of emergencies (sickness, leave etc) but i think road policing (speeding namely...) should be the last thing on the priority list.
BTW detective should never issue a tickets of any kind...they should be more than busy enough with real crime!
Also no tirades against AOS those guys are cool!

[peasea]

No i dont! i dont drink...but while we are at it, alcohol does different things to different people so 11% over for me is different to 11% for you...so again arbitrary limit, but since cop cannot "judge" personal tolerance to alcohol by looking at a person i do understand we do need some limits.

Speed is different tho, me traveling on my 176Kg (+fluids) bike at 61km is completely different to 25ton 18 Wheeler full of donuts doing the same speed...so thats where YOU should use your brain and discretion when handing out the tickets....
but since you've never heard of things like kinetic energy (5th form) or stopping distance i think you have no idea what iam talking about....

Would they be the long, apple-filled donuts or the round donuts?

[miloking]

Would they be the long, apple-filled donuts or the round donuts?

Well the donuts with hole in a middle are significantly lighter so that truck could also do 60km/h safely.....but considering "precious" nature of its cargo, i dont think any officer would look lightly at such a truck speeding and putting its cargo at risk!

[BoristheBiter]

One would hope so...but since speeding is "real" crime as far as they are concerned i think as long as tickets are being handed out at rate 1x/15min ...job well done!

See again you are reading what you want to out of a post.
never does it says hand out a ticket every 15 min, it say stop a vehicle every 15 min, and that only applies to cops that are on traffic duties, normal cops don't have said system.

But i guess getting your facts, knowing what you are talking about and having another cop bassing thread are 3 completly different things.

[miloking]

See again you are reading what you want to out of a post.
never does it says hand out a ticket every 15 min, it say stop a vehicle every 15 min, and that only applies to cops that are on traffic duties, normal cops don't have said system.

But i guess getting your facts, knowing what you are talking about and having another cop bassing thread are 3 completly different things.

Its called sarcasm...of course i know they dont have to hand out tickets on every stop...BUT the million dollar question is do they know it too????

[BoristheBiter]

No i dont! i dont drink...but while we are at it, alcohol does different things to different people so 11% over for me is different to 11% for you...so again arbitrary limit, but since cop cannot "judge" personal tolerance to alcohol by looking at a person i do understand we do need some limits.

Speed is different tho, me traveling on my 176Kg (+fluids) bike at 61km is completely different to 25ton 18 Wheeler full of donuts doing the same speed...so thats where YOU should use your brain and discretion when handing out the tickets....
but since you've never heard of things like kinetic energy (5th form) or stopping distance i think you have no idea what iam talking about....

Again what a pile of shit.
if you get hit at 100km your going to die or at the least be in some awlful pain no matter what hits you.

The limits are set for the average person/vehicle.

The problem is people think they are better drivers/rides than they are. all you have to do is look at the road toll to know how wrong most are.
Yes there are some very good drivers in the country but how could you gauge that? put them on a track? nice gold star on licence? I ride much faster on the track than on road and see some that should never be on a bike.

[BoristheBiter]

Its called sarcasm...of course i know they dont have to hand out tickets on every stop...BUT the million dollar question is do they know it too????

Sarcasm is what peasea has been posting, saying that they need to hand out tickets is just plain lying.

[miloking]

Again what a pile of shit.
if you get hit at 100km your going to die or at the least be in some awlful pain no matter what hits you.

The limits are set for the average person/vehicle.

The problem is people think they are better drivers/rides than they are. all you have to do is look at the road toll to know how wrong most are.
Yes there are some very good drivers in the country but how could you gauge that? put them on a track? nice gold star on licence? I ride much faster on the track than on road and see some that should never be on a bike.

If i get hit at 100Km/h i might die yes...but if i get hit at 61km/h i probably wont, so where did you get the 100 from?????

Everybody is maker of their own destiny, i dont need some arogant cop to tell me that i need to "save" my life via court enforced infringement notice!

And neither should you...who do you guys think you are??? You dont own me and neither does government....

** Expecting tirade of comments how iam selfishly only thinking of myself and my 61km/h is going to kill some child or kitten that stepped into the road....**

(well fuck it where is the kids mum that should be holding their hand)

[miloking]

Sarcasm is what peasea has been posting, saying that they need to hand out tickets is just plain lying.

Dont twist my words, nobody said cops need to hand out tickets...sad fact is they just do that anyway! But we all know they actualy dont have to....

[BoristheBiter]

If i get hit at 100Km/h i might die yes...but if i get hit at 61km/h i probably wont, so where did you get the 100 from?????

Everybody is maker of their own destiny, i dont need some arogant cop to tell me that i need to "save" my life via court enforced infringement notice!

And neither should you...who do you guys think you are??? You dont own me and neither does government....

** Expecting tirade of comments how iam selfishly only thinking of myself and my 61km/h is going to kill some child or kitten that stepped into the road....**

(well fuck it where is the kids mum that should be holding their hand)

The 100 was just a speed pulled out of the air like most of your facts.

If you feel this way than so be it, i guess there is always one that thinks they are better then the rest and laws don't apply to them because they know best.

I will leave you with this thought;

If traffic offecnce's are a waste of time than why are more people killed/injured on our roads than repoted cases of child abuse?

(i do agree with the mum holding the hand bit)

[jahrasti]

BTW detective should never issue a tickets of any kind...they should be more than busy enough with real crime!


This comment is either a troll or shows how little you know either way probably both the same thing.

The popos can stop any vehicle on any road blah blah Land transport act blah blah.

for example what happens if they are on their way to solve some real crime and a vehicle goes straight through a stop sign/red light. They pull over said vehicle. Vehicle has not had a Warrant or rego for over a year.

Does this vehicle not deserve some punishment i.e ticket? How do the cops know that it is a safe vehicle as it hasn't had a warrant for a year? What happens if the driver has a Warrant for his arrest?

Can you see that it is not all about speed. yeah some people enforce it as part of their job wow big deal. Truckies hate CVIU, you hate HP and the world will go on.

I tire of this, you sprout as much kaka as you want.

[candor]

Meanwhile with all this time committed by performance agreements to tickets we have leading child road death rates AND leading child abuse rates. Get sisyphustic work stories. And remember that tonight Campbell Live has some bollox about speed causing 70% of the toll to distract us from reality as encapsulated in the whistle blower cops comments to the IPCA. He gets most irresponsible hjourno award - but I s'pose 3 needs the ad revenue from nzta/police. They broadcast Brian Tamaki as well.

[BoristheBiter]

Get sisyphustic work stories.

????????????????????????????????????????????????

[miloking]

Meanwhile with all this time committed by performance agreements to tickets we have leading child road death rates AND leading child abuse rates. Get sisyphustic work stories. And remember that tonight Campbell Live has some bollox about speed causing 70% of the toll to distract us from reality as encapsulated in the whistle blower cops comments to the IPCA. He gets most irresponsible hjourno award - but I s'pose 3 needs the ad revenue from nzta/police. They broadcast Brian Tamaki as well.

Its called "mi casa es su casa" .... you use media to run your "product" add campaign (speed kills...tickets are neccesary) and media will throw in some freebies in form of Campbell live promo for your campaign!

[miloking]

This comment is either a troll or shows how little you know either way probably both the same thing.

The popos can stop any vehicle on any road blah blah Land transport act blah blah.

for example what happens if they are on their way to solve some real crime and a vehicle goes straight through a stop sign/red light. They pull over said vehicle. Vehicle has not had a Warrant or rego for over a year.

Does this vehicle not deserve some punishment i.e ticket? How do the cops know that it is a safe vehicle as it hasn't had a warrant for a year? What happens if the driver has a Warrant for his arrest?

Can you see that it is not all about speed. yeah some people enforce it as part of their job wow big deal. Truckies hate CVIU, you hate HP and the world will go on.

I tire of this, you sprout as much kaka as you want.

I know you are getting tired of this...but hang on there for a moment longer i think we are getting somewhere!

So you were saying detective is on his way to solve real crime, and sees car run red light.... and now this gets realy interesting, what if he ignores it (as its just traffic offence) and continues to the said real and probably serious crime and solves it....wouldnt that be wonderful?????

And no rego and no WOF definately doesnt deserve punishment!!!...since when you pay rego its back dated anyway so you never "steal" any money from poor ACC!

And WOF....some western countries dont have compulsory WOF and the world didnt end because of it!

BUT...

I do agree with YOU...if said detective is just driving to a donut shop and sees car driving thru a red light....he should definately pull him over!!!!

( but i still believe that they should be more than busy with real crime)

[miloking]

I will leave you with this thought;

If traffic offecnce's are a waste of time than why are more people killed/injured on our roads than repoted cases of child abuse?

(i do agree with the mum holding the hand bit)

There is lot more traffic offences because there is lot more bad drivers compare to bad abusive parents (i dont have official statistics for that but it does make sense) also did you consider that there could be lots of child abuse gone unreported???? (child has no way of letting police know and neighbours dont care, perhaps)

Of course you could be right as well and there is lots more "dead" people because we need to educate our drivers more and make obtaining licence more strict!

[scumdog]

No i dont! i dont drink...but while we are at it, alcohol does different things to different people so 11% over for me is different to 11% for you...so again arbitrary limit, but since cop cannot "judge" personal tolerance to alcohol by looking at a person i do understand we do need some limits.

Speed is different tho, me traveling on my 176Kg (+fluids) bike at 61km is completely different to 25ton 18 Wheeler full of donuts doing the same speed...so thats where YOU should use your brain and discretion when handing out the tickets....
but since you've never heard of things like kinetic energy (5th form) or stopping distance i think you have no idea what iam talking about....

Met me and know me huh?

Ya know I've 'never heard of things like kinetic energy' huh?

or stopping distance?

If I didn't know you were just trolling (rather poorly I might add) i might have thought you were that annoying spotty oik from Nelson College all those years ago.....he was just like you.

[Smifffy]

Met me and know me huh?

Ya know I've 'never heard of things like kinetic energy' huh?

or stopping distance?

If I didn't know you were just trolling (rather poorly I might add) i might have thought you were that annoying spotty oik from Nelson College all those years ago.....he was just like you.

Did the oik from Nelson college also think that 25ton of donuts with holes in them weigh less than 25ton of donuts without holes? :rofl: :rofl:

Nice way of derailing the thread that, rather than discuss the ICPA report, and possible procedural changes that need to happen within the force, it's much easier to attack individual coppers and masturbate over minor petty traffic infringements and drivel on about physics and kinetic energy.

[peasea]

Sarcasm is what peasea has been posting, saying that they need to hand out tickets is just plain lying.

Sarcasm? Me? Never!