Ok, ideas time - NZ MX park?

[scott411]

i am looking for ideas about a mx practice track, want some idea's on what you the riders want,

so fire them at me, and what you are prepared to pay for it, (i mean in per day term)

[Crasherfromwayback]

NZ needs a big oval dirt track so we can finally have some world beating road racers. Round and round they go.

[scott411]

NZ needs a big oval dirt track so we can finally have some world beating road racers. Round and round they go.

how much would you pay to practice there tho

[Crasherfromwayback]

Probably more than your average dirt rider!

[scott411]

Probably more than your average dirt rider!

would they tho? proper supermotord (with dirt) has stuggled in this country, so has speedway bike racing, is the average NZ rider into dirt track racing?

and this is way off topic anyway, what do you want off a mx track

[raglanash]

We pay $15 at Ardmore for 4 hours, thats sweet for a mint maintained track.
Probably pay more if the hours were longer and the track was as good.
Don't think people would mind paying good money if the track was up to scratch, people still pay $35 to ride at kimmys.
Get one put in at Hampton Downs!! It would be perfect, I drive past most days looking at all that clay going to waste.
Where are you thinking of doing this?

[fmxemz]

Somewhere close enough to town so it dosent cost too much to get there but far enough away for people not to complain.
A track were someone who has never raced can come and feel comfortable with every aspect or have two different tracks to keep the learners and stuff from being dominated, plus a kids track ? I dont know? It depends on budget.
But something that caters for all abilitiy levels but dosent bore skilled riders. Your normal... tables, big berms, mean straights, maybe a double or two!
Add a trail loop or 3 haha then you have a sick park!!!

Round 30 bux for a good days riding but maybe if you become a member a members price ? Base it on what people pay to trail ride $25-35 and then to race like normally you will pay 30-50 bux depending on if you have a licence or not plus your race class at race days ?

a girls idea lol :innocent:

As Raglanash says as long as its maintained well people will pay for a good track!

[bogan]

pretty much what fmxemz said, good location, multiple tracks for differing skill levels (don't skimp on track lengths though). Perhaps a very technical section like romaniacs start would be a bit of fun/laughs, hill climb also. So yeh, huge variation would be ideal, but price accordingly, a single track with moderate grooming i would expect to pay between 10-20 bucks (bit more if its real close though), full on mx park would only pay bout an extra 10 bucks per time, but go far more often. Offering member rates is also a good way to get free labour and help setting up / grooming / marshalling I reckon.

[fmxemz]

Yes i need to work on hill climbing lol in a big way so please include some of these :D lol i will regret this when im stuck half way up one !!!

[honda_power]

a sx style track would be good... not many places to ride that type of track

[bogan]

Yes i need to work on hill climbing lol in a big way so please include some of these :D lol i will regret this when im stuck half way up one !!!

oh I meant proper ones, you don't get stuck, you are either going up it, or rolling back down it :D

[barty5]

Would depend on where it was as to what most would pay and how well it was maintained would seam a lot of people are not happy bout paying for what is at kimmies track cost vs maintained track (i use this track as it always appears to come up). Would need to be a track or maybe two track so as to cater for different level of rider skill so those that are not as confident can get out and dont feel over powered by all those who dominate the track.

[Sunday Casual]

i am looking for ideas about a mx practice track, want some idea's on what you the riders want,

so fire them at me, and what you are prepared to pay for it, (i mean in per day term)


It is about time someone had a brain wave like this. I assume you're talking about a full time, everyday (or there abouts) kinda MX track, Scott? The amount of times that I have been wasting a day off doing nothing except dreaming about riding is something I don't want to think about. I would be prepared to pay a max. of $35.00 a day for a full blown moto track that is professionally maintained and kept up to scratch like over in America. I know it's hard to compare to America, but if that was someones full time job I'm sure it would pay it's way. Look at the likes of Pala raceway or Glen Helen, they are maintained day in and day out, surely if maintaining a motocross track was someones full time job (or a few people's) it wouldn't be too hard.


I just feel that trying to provide a very broad riding area, with a ride range of terrain would be a large challenge and that focussing on one aspect (e.g a full blown motocross track) would be a lot easier. The problem with trying to maintain a range of different riding terrain is that it becomes too hard to keep them all up to scratch and you have problems with keeping it good for riding. For example, Kimmies. I mean that place is good and all but their motocross and enduro loop is nothing to brag about, if they were properly looked after everyday (e.g - grooming and watering) it would be a worthwhile option going there, but the problem with it as it is, is that they haven't been able to maintain all the areas and it is not worth the trip.


If someone were to build, for example, a single purpose motocross track, and not a multi purpose riding area; I'm sure that a killing would be made. Ardmore is an example of this, the numbers that turn up their to ride an often underprepared and inadequate track (In comparison to NZ nations for example) is crazy, it's often hundreds of riders. Don't get me wrong, you will see me at Ardmore on a Wednesday afternoon as they offer a reasonably priced practice track. I would not pay any more for it at the moment but if they were to look after it better, and maintain it properly, I would. If Scott were to make a well prepared, looked after and safe practice track, I know that I would certainly be making the most of it.


Cheers.

[barty5]

And some sorta kids track as well (not just a dirt ring something interesting so they will want to go back)

[Reckless]

The sport is really hard on families when the kids are say High school (or even varsity) but dad is still paying for it all. Even though a lot of the time they are still learners.
3 bike x$30 = $90 plus gas to get there say $70 or more, then bike gas and incidentals can cost $180 - $200 for a family day out not including breakages and tyres etc.
Thats why $20, girls free and the card system ( 6th ride free) is so very good at Thunder X and why we never went to Powers or Kimis.
$25 out the sandpit is good to but hard on the family if they all have bikes over 85cc. Frankly I think Tony is wise at $25, he is making much more money out there at that, than he would with many less people at $35. From the pics on Facebook of last sunday it was packed, I dunno why the others don't see it.

So if you could find a way of creating a family concession even if ID or membership was required that would help the sport grow I reckon.
or a membership card with good benefits to the registered family memberships.

Ash is correct Ardmore is an excellent venue with a generally good maintained track at exceptable rates. ( if you don't have to wait for him to finish watering it for an hour after you turn up) LOL!! But he does have a problem with the locals sabotaging his equipment and the resource parameters preventing him from investing more money, I think??

OK her's a few ideas?

Members
$15 1/2 day 8-12 0r 12-4pm (Dunno if this is a goer but some little ones only last an hour or two)
$25 full day or part of
Females $15 flat rate
Family membership rate $60 per day

Casual riders (non members) $10 bucks on all of the above but $15 on the family rate as its additionally discounted to help members?
A card system is very simple and good ( like thunder X) if you can work it in.

If no membership is planned maybe add $5 to the members rates and go with that but implement the loyalty card system so your frequent riders get rewarded say every 5th ride free?

I dunno just a few thoughts we don't have to much of a problem now my son is working but a couple of years ago we only rode when we could afford it Max 2 times a month at best and 90% Thunder X. We still don't go Kimis or Powers rides as we are put off them because of the old days I suppose?

Anyway there's probably lots of holes in the above but hope these thoughts help?? Depends a little on what type of rider you are trying to attract if its all the single fast guys forget the above LOL!!!

[scott411]

cheers guys for the input, i had in my head what i thought was right, but to get a good range ideal's from the people that will use it, what i am thinking of is more of a pure mx track like Ardmore and Harrisville, not a off road park like Kimmy's, Thundercross/ The Sand Pit,

as for Pala Raceway, I wonder if i can convince some tribe to give me some of there land, i back myself as a salesmen but if i could get that deal done it would deserve my DB that day

ps: Pala and Glen Helen are $25 -$ 35 US a day,

[mfordy]

I think you would need 2 tracks and a kids loop as others have stated to cater for everybodys wants and to make it a family friendly place to be - An advanced SX/MX track and a gentler version for us wanna be's.
I'd be happy paying $20/each or $50/family for a days riding provided it was maintained and supervised.
Would this be a practice facility only or another MotoX club operating alongside existing locations eg Harrisville, Huntly, Mercer etc?

[SpikedPunch]

I'd happily pay $30 for a nice big track like harrisville if it was open all day. It's such a shame it can only be open such short hours :(
Agreeing with other people that the ideal situation would be a main track, novice track and kid's track. Oh and, girly opinion - flush toilets and somewhere to get changed would be nice haha :)
If space was an issue I guess instead of a novice track there could be an easier section on the main track with an option to either keep looping it or go on to the rest of the (harder) track? I guess that doesn't avoid the problem of vastly different skills of rider being on the track at once tho. But if the novice section had no big flying-past-your-head jumps, it wouldn't be that much of a problem?

[takitimu]

Seems to me one of the toughest parts is making it all weather, you could go this way http://www.sandboxarena.com/facility/theInside.aspx , but that is pretty expensive solution, though I guess it means you don't need to go sand based.
In terms of price I think $15 & 4 for $50 ( you can buy 4 tickets for $50, for families, people who want to group up, buying in advance ). Though it might have to proportionally more than that depending on costs.
In terms of track, my take is it's got to be maintainable & free draining, jumps that can be ridden or jumped safely ( no real gap jumps ) with good straight faces.
From there, I'd pay for timing, especially timing that was segmented, kind of like at go-karts but as I say with segments & preferably something you can break & have a look at your times & print/email/save out to take home.
Forgot to mention hook ups with trainers, be awesome to pay like $50 & get like 15 minutes + tips / feedback on your riding.

[Latte]

"Back in the day" Harrisville was good, all day riding, able to either loop the "SX" Part or the "MX" part, (or both of course).

You could have a track that's 2 in one - there's a shared part, then it splits into easy/hard , then they both join back into the shared part - hope that makes sense.

The fast/slow groups has it's merits when it's busy , when it's quiet could be an option to run "open", then people would ride/rest on their own rhythm, rather than rushing out at the same time as their "window" opens.

[Brian d marge]

A track where you could practice your jumping skills , nice and flowing and the ability to opt out of the jumps ( or scale em down )
So that the learners , kids , ME ( vintage MX ) do not get in the way of captain testosterone

A wash area ( bike and rider ) ie water , and shade

happily pay 30 to 40 for that

Stephen

[telliman]

ardmore is shit, basically we want harrisville closer to the city, and opened way more! with a garden bar overlooking the track, with a big sound system and heaps of chicks! lol

[telliman]

when i win powerball im gona biuld a mx/sx version of woodward! whatch this space!

[laserracer]

3 tracks 1 mx trail track for learners .. ..and 1.. sx mx track for race licence holders and 1 kids track .. if you have a full on mx type track with doubles whoops and stuff you really dont want inexperienced riders hurting themselves hence the race licence only track

[RJM]

I like what laserracer has said above but of course it all comes down to covering the cost of it all.

I know I harp on about being a novice rider, one of my biggest concerns is actually getting in the way of other people and ruining their fun and also being a hazzard. So in saying that it would be great to have a track that is beginner to medium friendly, and another with more technical sections.

I've personally ridden at Digger McEwens twice over Anniversary weekend, that was a great layout, big jumps that you could go as big (or small) as you wanted to comfortably and it was long enough that people could spread out alot.
I've also had a quick play at Ardmore on a Wednesday night and enjoyed the track layout for my level - even though I was told off for riding with the juniors / novices before the marshall realised they were all blasting past me!

I'm all for the membership idea and volunteers are always key. If you were running busy days you could have groups and when you're not on the track it would be kind of expected that you marshalled other track users while having a break. Of course there are also the enthusiasts who just enjoy watching the action and marshalling anyway.

[A&R]

The sport is really hard on families when the kids are say High school (or even varsity) but dad is still paying for it all. Even though a lot of the time they are still learners.
3 bike x$30 = $90 plus gas to get there say $70 or more, then bike gas and incidentals can cost $180 - $200 for a family day out not including breakages and tyres etc.
Thats why $20, girls free and the card system ( 6th ride free) is so very good at Thunder X and why we never went to Powers or Kimis.
$25 out the sandpit is good to but hard on the family if they all have bikes over 85cc. Frankly I think Tony is wise at $25, he is making much more money out there at that, than he would with many less people at $35. From the pics on Facebook of last sunday it was packed, I dunno why the others don't see it.

So if you could find a way of creating a family concession even if ID or membership was required that would help the sport grow I reckon.
or a membership card with good benefits to the registered family memberships.

Ash is correct Ardmore is an excellent venue with a generally good maintained track at exceptable rates. ( if you don't have to wait for him to finish watering it for an hour after you turn up) LOL!! But he does have a problem with the locals sabotaging his equipment and the resource parameters preventing him from investing more money, I think??

OK her's a few ideas?

Members
$15 1/2 day 8-12 0r 12-4pm (Dunno if this is a goer but some little ones only last an hour or two)
$25 full day or part of
Females $15 flat rate
Family membership rate $60 per day

Casual riders (non members) $10 bucks on all of the above but $15 on the family rate as its additionally discounted to help members?
A card system is very simple and good ( like thunder X) if you can work it in.

If no membership is planned maybe add $5 to the members rates and go with that but implement the loyalty card system so your frequent riders get rewarded say every 5th ride free?

I dunno just a few thoughts we don't have to much of a problem now my son is working but a couple of years ago we only rode when we could afford it Max 2 times a month at best and 90% Thunder X. We still don't go Kimis or Powers rides as we are put off them because of the old days I suppose?

Anyway there's probably lots of holes in the above but hope these thoughts help?? Depends a little on what type of rider you are trying to attract if its all the single fast guys forget the above LOL!!!

Having 4 kids - 2 now away - but still two at home would agree with all you have said Rick.

[honda_power]

when i win powerball im gona biuld a mx/sx version of woodward! whatch this space!

and when i win the following week, im gonna build a replica of fitzpatrics fmx compound!

I heard about a track that sounds kinda like what is being discussed. Its towards tokoroa. $20 all day riding... not many people know about it though. Heading there this weekend will tell ya what its like. Aparantly its groomed all the time.

If anyone wants to tag along that would be sweet, more the merrier

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlipJW0OICc

[fmxemz]

Haha i like someones post about girls riding free this is ideal :) then I will come every day :) haha i kinda get down for Maddix Park thats kinda cool for learning!!!

[oldguy]

Ok, ideal MX practice track, James Stewarts back yard.

In a way something along those lines, an out doors track and an SX track I think we need a dedicated SX track, as it is slowly becoming popular here.
With an out door track you could make it with an option, for a long track or shorten it up for say the younger kids, but it still has to be challenging.
The availabiliy of land, size and proximity will dictate alot.

you can please some people some of the time, but not please all of the peolpe all of the time.

Good luck with this.

[krad_nz]

A really important component to any good safe MX track is on-site medical staff. Harisville and the other big tracks usually have people handy I believe.

I'm pretty sure that Ardmore and the other smaller tracks don't have any one on site in the event of a bad off. This is probably why its so cheap though.
I would pay more if knew there were medics on site. (i don't know what that says about my riding :Police:)

A single track that could be divided up into beginners - intermediate - advanced would be the ideal. Keeps your options open.

I'm a MX noob, infact I've been told off by someones mum after their kid knocked me off my bike... from behind.... *cough*. Apparently I was swervign all over the place. Actually I probably was, but damit I was trying not too. :P

The point is my 'mobile berm' MX riding technique isn't compatible with the fast guys.

[Ride it till the red]

$20's ideal, $25's acceptable. Season/ year/ member rates are the best, even if this means doing volunteer work to be eligible.
Track has to be in reasonable condition. Easy draining is good, as is quick drying. Surfaces that can be ridden safely in the wet WITHOUT wrecking the track are great.
Having a mix of MX and SX would be choice, and reasonable difficulty would be good. Alot of tracks are too easy/ small. Being of decent length is good as it allows more riding before the track gets repetitive. Staggered lips, step ups/ downs, table tops and tripples all can be set up so as to be possible to jump 20ft up to 100ft...... It's good to remember that safer smaller lines don't just suit learners they also suit wet riding....

Medics are something I hadn't considered, but a very good idea if feasible.
The comment earlier about a seperate track for race license holders is a great idea, if space allows.
Also the comment about access to reasonably priced training (with pro's) is a wicked prospect, smaller time blocks or cheaper group rates would get alot more people interested in this.
Facilities are always good, even if it's gold coin showers/ toilets. Drinking water would be another major plus for me, again maybe a small charge to fill a bottle.

My 2c

[oldguy]

How much I would pay , would happliy pay $70 bucks for a day, its got to cover running costs. track maintance etc, otherwise it wont work. hell to do a trackday at hampton downs its $200 for a day, and most other tracks around $120 t0 $180.

[CRF119]

Im not worried about cost at the end of the day if the facilities are good people will come and so will i. Ive drempt up a motor x park in my head countless times. Ive made mx tracks with diggers before but limited on space.

If there wasnt a budget. I would have a technical Super X track, A motor x track somthing like a 5 min plus lap, a trail loop for the enduro boys with jumps in it, a trials area, Kids track. All the tracks would include those feel good sections every body loves you know those bits you go through and you wish you could turn back and do again and again and again.

[cheese]

Location is the important thing. Opening hours are key and price is always a funny one. If you charge less, more will come, charge more and you may get the same money with less people.... Hard to say aye. I think start off at $25 then if its not working increase the price. I think over $30 is a bit too much to pay. I honestly think that the sandpit works so wee because of the price point. Powers and Kimmys are killing it at $35 IMO.

[Ktmboy]

Well for us its the safety aspect, and its why I really don't like Logan riding on practice tracks where if a rider bins it over a blind jump then a jump marshall should be in attendance IMO.
Easy table tops etc would be the go. Just look at BT's latest practice at Glen helen. that was scary!

A SAFE park is a good park and I think that the prices that Kimmys and Thunder charge are really not too excessive. Their maintenance costs, being clay based and having to use a Buldozer are Ok in that respect. We have the luxury of having sand and to get good groomed tracks its a hell of alot easier, although we do spend 2 days a week on the tractor on average.

So its horses for courses really. big thing is Location, location, location. Good luck. (Want to swap some sand for dirt)

[cheese]

Oh and I'll sort you a coffee machine Scott! LOL I work with Rachael who I think that you used to work with at Northern? She was at AMPS a few years back.

[Ktmboy]

I think a combination between a Kawasaki Goodtime Scramble track and Harrisville would be the go. Mercer with a clay base perhaps.

[FlangMasterJ]

More importantly, are you guys willing to travel all the way down to Wellington to ride this new track?

[SpikedPunch]

Nah let's have it on the shore. You can bowl my neighbour's places, I'm sure they won't mind!
H-ville's alarm system thingy, where the alarm goes off when someone stops on the track - that's pretty good in place of a marshal if everyone is aware of it. But yeah, stuff like an on-site st james (kind of expensive though, we used to hire em for derby events) and an alarm system or marshals are important I think, and a big reason to ride a paid track rather than your mate's backyard one.

[Reckless]

quite frankly as to distance, Thunder and the Farm have proved people will travel to get there and its very very unlikely we could have it anywhere near the yuppy farmers now dotting the landscape. Even Thunder has issues with noise I understand?? So Be prepared to travel I reckon.

[oldguy]

Hampton Downs be a good location, next to the race circuit.