Help for a girl just getting into it (oracle)

[oracle]

Hey everyone, if you could help me with some advice that's be great. Atm I'm just looking into starting to ride, hoping to get my learners in the uni holidays once I'm out of the craziness that is doing biomed. Was looking round at a couple of bikes and would like to know if Lifan is any good? Also any advice for a real beginner. Cheers

[R-Soul]

No
10 characters

[kiwifruit]

Best to learn away from the road if you can. A small dirt bike in a paddock is my suggestion.
Welcome to the site :)

[Devil]

Hey everyone, if you could help me with some advice that's be great. Atm I'm just looking into starting to ride, hoping to get my learners in the uni holidays once I'm out of the craziness that is doing biomed. Was looking round at a couple of bikes and would like to know if Lifan is any good? Also any advice for a real beginner. Cheers

Lifan are at the acceptable level of chinese bikes. They have distributor support in NZ. I'd still pick something else however.

[NewRob]

Hi, welcome to KB.
Ask your uni friends about the bikes they ride and you will get the idea of what kind of bike to get. I have seen many uni students with bikes. Lifan is ok, but shop around and you can compare the difference in quality of each bike manufactures. Cheers

[reemit]

Hi there young'un. No idea about Lifan, sounds crap tho, like them lawnmowers from the BBQ factory.
But before you fight the Auckland traffic best to get some lessons from a riding school, balance and control etc.
The trick in the city is getting a sixth sense about whats gonna bite ya. Learn where the hotspots are for idiots in cars who havent a clue what their doing and keep your eyes wide open.
Good luck and have fun.

[Qkchk]

Here is a bike that would be VERY suitable for Learning on. CBR125 (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/123607-Cbr125?p=1129755810#post1129755810) Currently for sale...........

[R-Soul]

Hey everyone, if you could help me with some advice that's be great. Atm I'm just looking into starting to ride, hoping to get my learners in the uni holidays once I'm out of the craziness that is doing biomed. Was looking round at a couple of bikes and would like to know if Lifan is any good? Also any advice for a real beginner. Cheers

Seriously. Get a bike that is made in Japan, and has a bit of oomph behind it. the power is actually helpful in dodgy situations. and just because youhave it doesn't mean you have to use it (yeah right!).

Jap bikes have decent servicing costs, decent reliability, and decent resale value. And dont fall apart and are not made with dodgy materials and dodgy design. Lifan may be cheap short term but I think it could bite you later....

And honestly, get yourself a decent tutor/trainer and do a few courses AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE (the ride right ride safe course for one). And do reading of books. Specifically and most importantly, learn what counter steering is, and DO IT consciously for as long as it takes until it becomes subconscious.

Biking is ALL about technique. Poor technique is poor control, and lack of confidence. Riding while being unconfident in your abilities to control the bike is damn scary and takes away from the pure joy that is avialable otherwise. And with good technique, even a relative newbie can ride better than some "experienced" riders that have retained bad habits because they have never bothered to get off their ass and think/learn a bit more....

You can tell these riders on the forum by their comments:
"Dont overthink it - just ride"
"Its not a science lesson, just go out and do it", etc.

Never be scared to ask - if you dont ask, you dont learn. And if there is ever ANY doubt about your capabilities or your bike's, then DONT DO IT. A rider driven by ego is a very dangerous thing.

[nodrog]

get a gsxr1000

[rie]

1. university of auckland scooter and motorcycle club meets fridays (see thread in this forum under "AUSMC"...or some acronym to that effect).
2. utilise search engine in this forum
3. utilise google to go beyond nz opinion
4. pm ppl on this forum you think may be especially helpful to you

[Sentox]

And honestly, get yourself a decent tutor/trainer and do a few courses AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE (the ride right ride safe course for one). And do reading of books. Specifically and most importantly, learn what counter steering is, and DO IT consciously for as long as it takes until it becomes subconscious.

Biking is ALL about technique. Poor technique is poor control, and lack of confidence. Riding while being unconfident in your abilities to control the bike is damn scary and takes away from the pure joy that is avialable otherwise. And with good technique, even a relative newbie can ride better than some "experienced" riders that have retained bad habits because they have never bothered to get off their ass and think/learn a bit more....

You can tell these riders on the forum by their comments:
"Dont overthink it - just ride"
"Its not a science lesson, just go out and do it", etc.

+1

I'd be a much worse rider without a systematic application of learning and practice. Get any training you can, read everything you can. Knowledge is power.

I've still got a lot to work on (and probably will do until the day I die), but at least whenever I go out and ride I feel completely in control of the bike. It's not about over-confidence, it's about having a grasp of the mental and physical aspects of riding so that the bike simply does what you want it to do, rather than you fighting against it.

[R-Soul]

Biking is ALL about technique. Poor technique is poor control, and lack of confidence. Riding while being unconfident in your abilities to control the bike is damn scary and takes away from the pure joy that is avialable otherwise. And with good technique, even a relative newbie can ride better than some "experienced" riders that have retained bad habits because they have never bothered to get off their ass and think/learn a bit more....

You can tell these riders on the forum by their comments:
"Dont overthink it - just ride"
"Its not a science lesson, just go out and do it", etc.



A qualifier: once you have learnt what good technique is, you should go out and practise it until it is second nature. The right things to do does NOT just happen intuitively in bad and scary situations. Even if you do theoretically know what they are. In emergency situations, there is no time for thought processes- only ingrained reflexes.

[Gone Burger]

Hey chickie! Good luck with the licence process. I myself have didn't have any licence 10 months ago, and now I have my full and a very lovely bike. The learner license process for me was full on, but I loved every minute of it (almost).

Many on here will have opinions about which bike will be best for you. Take on board what you want to , but I personally think its about finding the bike that suits your needs and you are a person (physically). I learnt on my keeway supershadow. Many would laugh at them as they too are a cheap import bike. But I loved it, and it was the perfect bike for me to learn on. It was light weight and easy for me to learn gearing on, shifting weight etc.

Have a sit on a few different kinds of bikes. See how they feel, how heavy you find them etc. My cheap and tacky keeway that i loved so much served me well, and as I grew confidence it also kepted up with more experinced riders who were kind enough to take me under thier wing.

You'll have a blast - this has been the greatest thing I have ever gotten into!

[rie]

Hey chickie! Good luck with the licence process. I myself have didn't have any licence 10 months ago...
You'll have a blast - this has been the greatest thing I have ever gotten into!

holy crap you can go from zero to full in 10months???

[ital916]

6 months learners, 3 months restricted for 0ver 25 with def driving course is my guess...unless there was an exemption involved katiepie?

[Little Miss Trouble]

Biking is ALL about technique. Poor technique is poor control, and lack of confidence. Riding while being unconfident in your abilities to control the bike is damn scary and takes away from the pure joy that is avialable otherwise. And with good technique, even a relative newbie can ride better than some "experienced" riders that have retained bad habits because they have never bothered to get off their ass and think/learn a bit more....

You can tell these riders on the forum by their comments:
"Dont overthink it - just ride"
"Its not a science lesson, just go out and do it", etc.



*Facepalm*

Have you stopped to think that perhaps these riders are just 'natural' riders who do infact just learn by doing what feels right rather than having to read loads of books and over analyse everything? I wonder if Rossi has read a million books on technique or mentally calculates the ratios of tip in before each corner?

Not everyone learns the same way, what works for you may not work for someone else, so I would humbly suggest you STFU and stop over complicating everything

[hayd3n]

wear protection, or up the bum no babies

[Gone Burger]

6 months learners, 3 months restricted for 0ver 25 with def driving course is my guess...unless there was an exemption involved katiepie?

Correct.. Over 25, and did my defensive driving course. 9 months almost to the day from no licence to full. Lets just say I got very impatient, was hooked from day one. Funny thing is that the defensive driving course pratical was in a CAR as it applied to my bike license. Was going to cost me more if I wanted to do that part on the bike. Crazy system. But hey, got my 3 months off and here I am. HOOKED!

[bogan]

*Facepalm*

Have you stopped to think that perhaps these riders are just 'natural' riders who do infact just learn by doing what feels right rather than having to read loads of books and over analyse everything? I wonder if Rossi has read a million books on technique or mentally calculates the ratios of tip in before each corner?

Not everyone learns the same way, what works for you may not work for someone else, so I would humbly suggest you STFU and stop over complicating everything

agreed, and I've read a lot of books too :bleh: wisdom is tempering other's advice with your own experience, just make sure you get plenty of both and you'll be fine :yes:

[Sentox]

Have you stopped to think that perhaps these riders are just 'natural' riders who do infact just learn by doing what feels right rather than having to read loads of books and over analyse everything?

I'm not stupid enough to think anyone will convince you otherwise. I'll just offer my opinion that willful ignorance in an activity that is very much life-threatening is quite a horrifying concept to me. No human being was built to ride a motorcycle. Not one. It's simply unnatural; a learned activity in every essence. Can you learn without explicit understanding? Of course, much like a child with a bicycle. Your brain will interpret the results of what is essentially a trial-and-error process until it develops a subconscious understanding of what physical inputs are required. Whether that will hold you in good stead under pressure, or let you develop your riding to the best it can be is another matter

I'm sorry, but a bike is a mechanical object that responds in an exactly predictable way to any given input, no exceptions (assuming mechanical fidelity). You can either make the effort to understand what inputs are required and develop them, or rely on osmosis. If people want to put their safety at risk and hamper their riding abilities, so be it. And as for the "everyone learns differently" business... if you can't so much as stomach a few written (or spoken) sentences explaining how to turn a bike at speed or respond to a corner that you've entered too hot... I don't know what to say, really.

And let's be clear, the human brain, in most cases, does not develop a riding style totally at harmony with the bike. Survival instincts (and flying along on the back of something that is pretty much the minimum of machinery needed to harness significant amounts of power is something I'd call a threat to survival) simply prevent it. Ergo the benefit of learning correct technique and rehearsing it to overcome this.

But hey, it's a free country.

[Little Miss Trouble]

Blah blah blah, I'm a fooken noob, who likes to use big words.

Dude, all I was saying is that there are other ways to learn how to ride, ways that don't include over-filling your head with techniques from books (and dubious statements from 'interweb experts') that you aren't even ready for yet.

Me? I learnt by getting out there & doing what felt right and following the big boys around.

Go ask some of the KB old farts who've been riding since *mumble mumble* how they learnt, I bet it wasn't by reading about it either.

Go ask Biggles or Choppa or Shaun, I bet they all learnt by getting out there & doing it as well as learning from others too.

[Sentox]

Blah blah blah, I lack maturity, so I will make retarded edits to the quote

I guess the fundamental difference is that I think a little knowledge is better than ignorance. No doubt, you can reach a proficient level of riding without any reading/training/whatever. It will almost certainly take longer and be more pain-filled, unless you were somehow incapable of learning in any capacity to begin with (in which case you'd probably lack even a basic education).

"What feels right" leads to numerous rider errors. What feels right is rolling off throttle if you're too hot into the corner, riding crossed up instead of leaning with the bike... the list goes on. Target fixation, arm tension under panic, etc, all come 'naturally'. Most riders will either defeat these in time, or learn to live with them... or crash.

I'm in complete agreement that you don't need to analyse every facet of your riding. That's not for everyone. But nearly anyone can improve their riding skills faster with a little knowledge. Get better quicker, be safer? I guess that's not for everyone either.

Edit: sorry to the OP for the semi-hijack. At least you have some, uh, varied opinions to consider :p

[Gwinch]

"What feels right" leads to numerous rider errors. What feels right is rolling off throttle if you're too hot into the corner, riding crossed up instead of leaning with the bike... the list goes on.

Total balderdash. There is an immense difference between "what feels right" and "natural reaction" which only the former falls into.

[Sentox]

Edit: this thread has been hijacked enough.

[reemit]

No doubt, you can reach a proficient level of riding without any reading/training/whatever. It will almost certainly take longer and be more pain-filled. unless you were somehow incapable of learning in any capacity to begin with (in which case you'd probably lack even a basic education).

Yeah when I crashed my brothers bike he beat the crap outa me. That lerned me.

[Sentox]

Yeah when I crashed my brothers bike he beat the crap outa me. That lerned me.

:laugh: Who needs books, eh. Nothing like a good old-fashioned beating to impart wisdom.

Mind you, if that were true my dad would have turned me into the smartest man alive.

[Gwinch]

Er, and the importance of this distinction is? Surely you agree that most riders (especially beginners) have a tendency to get off the throttle when they find themselves in too hot? By definition, this must be "what feels right" in lieu of some other reason for doing it (e.g. bad advice).

And certainly riding crossed up comes from the brain and body's tendency to feel more comfortable when more upright.

No, I call that a survival reaction that is brought forward by panic. To me, "what feels right" is a course of action that is ideal for the situation.

Sure, if you're a total wussbag who finds riding a motorcycle completely and utterly unnatural.

[Sentox]

To me, "what feels right" is a course of action that is ideal for the situation.

I believe you're mistaking "what feels right" for "what is right". It will "feel right" once you know it, of course, but that's getting the cart before the horse.

[Gwinch]

I believe you're mistaking "what feels right" for "what is right".

You'd be amazed how often those two things coincide. You should try it sometime.

[Sentox]

You'd be amazed how often those two things coincide. You should try it sometime.

*facepalm*

Of course the correct course of action will "feel right"... if you know the correct course of action, have practised it, and can execute it. However, the context here is learning to ride, when you're at the other end of the spectrum, and don't have that knowledge or experience. If instinct immediately guides you to the best response to any situation on a motorbike, I expect you will be lapping Rossi next year, because you're obviously God's gift to motorcycling.

Edit: damn it, I'm getting trolled hard.

[Sentox]

Oh yeah... welcome to Kiwi Biker! :laugh: Run away now.

[Little Miss Trouble]

I guess the fundamental difference is that I think a little knowledge is better than ignorance. No doubt, you can reach a proficient level of riding without any reading/training/whatever. It will almost certainly take longer and be more pain-filled, unless you were somehow incapable of learning in any capacity to begin with (in which case you'd probably lack even a basic education).
Where did I say I had no riding training? I got myself along on rides and learnt from those who've been doing it a hell of a long time, some who've been riding for more years than I've been alive!


"What feels right" leads to numerous rider errors. What feels right is rolling off throttle if you're too hot into the corner, riding crossed up instead of leaning with the bike... the list goes on. Target fixation, arm tension under panic, etc, all come 'naturally'. Most riders will either defeat these in time, or learn to live with them... or crash.
You seem to be a little confused here, fear/panic reactions, do not feel right at all, they upset the bike and you come away thinking WTF??!
I was talking about a person's own natural style, what feels right for me for example, is virtually not touching my brakes at all when riding through twisties, I use throttle control and gearing to make the bike behave the way I want, this comes natural to me, but is not an absolute and everyone should find their own 'correct' way of doing things to suit them.


I'm in complete agreement that you don't need to analyse every facet of your riding. That's not for everyone. But nearly anyone can improve their riding skills faster with a little knowledge. Get better quicker, be safer? I guess that's not for everyone either.

Edit: sorry to the OP for the semi-hijack. At least you have some varied opinions to consider :p

So we are basically agreeing after all that then? That people should improve their skills in whatever way suits them and that their are no absolutes - other than the laws of physics (which some here will still argue!) Coz thats all my fooken point was in the first place.


P.S. I would suggest you go meet some of the 'old bastards' that still ride and take their advice over interwebby 'experts'

[ReQuiEm]

Humans are "naturals" at a few things sure.. that is call "instinct" which is something we have developed throughout our existence, unfortunately.. we have not had cars, motorcycles and other such machines very long at all, comparatively speaking

we all learn differently, some of us have the "right stuff" and get by with trail and error and no instruction from anyone, it can often be a painful experience, and its very easy to miss the finer points when you have nothing to relate too, reading a book or watching a video is not going to teach you how to ride, neither is talking to someone for advice, most humans learn by doing, very simple concept

if we can relate this to another learning experiences, martial arts for sake of an example, one can argue that humans naturally know how to defend themselves.. but you can practice for years and years, doing something that actually IS natural to humans, and still get roflstomped by an actual training and experienced martial artist.. why?

this is all subjective as hell, some are happy being "competent" and "safe" riding on the street their whole lives, but would never sit foot on a track, some are a bit of a mix..of course, but the inescapable truth here.. is that humans are all different, and we all have different barriers to overcome when we learn something new, regardless of what that might be


who taught most of us to drive our first car? or go-kart.., ride our first bike? we all have to learn everything we do, is it safer to have some help? of course, we should NEVER try to force "our way" onto another person, never tell anyone to learn "your way" let them do it the way they feel comfortable with, what sane person would argue its "bad" to read a book on a subject? seems pretty dumb to me.. but this seems to be what is being suggested

maybe its bravado? posting such replies to further your own ego, suggesting that you did it the "hard way" and anyone who does it the "easy/boring" way is less amazing than you


generally speaking humans suck at most things they try, some exceptions sure, but overall.. its best to give yourself every advantage you can when learning something that could easily kill you, with a simple mistake.. but either way, its still dangerous even if you read books, take courses etc., understanding the finer points of the machine you are attempting to operate is a MUST in any situation, and there is a big divide between learning WHY something happened, and experiencing it happen... who can possibly argue that?

I want to see an inexperienced rider back into a corner, consistently without high siding, because hes doing "what feels right"... im sure he could learn that technique through "trail and error" over the majority of his natural life.... hmm >.>

[Sentox]

Where did I say I had no riding training? I got myself along on rides and learnt from those who've been doing it a hell of a long time, some who've been riding for more years than I've been alive!

Well, that's one of the ways I consider learning. All I'm trying to say is that going it competely alone is ill-advised. If learning from others works better than books for you, sure. I just think that gaining a little understanding of how to ride goes a long way.


You seem to be a little confused here, fear/panic reactions, do not feel right at all, they upset the bike and you come away thinking WTF??!

I agree, poor word choice on my part. I'm just trying to make the point that these panic reactions are going to be your natural response to difficult situations on a bike. It's much easier to conquer them (imo) if you know what you're supposed to do. Knowing something and doing it, of course, are two very separate things. But the former should help the latter.


So we are basically agreeing after all that then? That people should improve their skills in whatever way suits them and that their are no absolutes - other than the laws of physics (which some here will still argue!) Coz thats all my fooken point was in the first place.


More or less, I guess :laugh: I agree that you should learn however suits you best... but I firmly believe that you should actively learn. Try to build a complete riding style from instinct strikes me as a dangerous path.


P.S. I would suggest you go meet some of the 'old bastards' that still ride and take their advice over interwebby 'experts'

I don't get all my knowledge from interweb 'experts', you know :laugh: I consider people like Nick Ienatsch, Andy Ibbott, Keith Code, etc, to be fairly reliable sources. They're veterans, and make a living out of teaching the pursuit of riding. Chances are they know a thing or two.

[nodrog]

you cunts read too many fuckin books.

[R-Soul]

*Facepalm*

Have you stopped to think that perhaps these riders are just 'natural' riders who do infact just learn by doing what feels right rather than having to read loads of books and over analyse everything? I wonder if Rossi has read a million books on technique or mentally calculates the ratios of tip in before each corner?

Not everyone learns the same way, what works for you may not work for someone else, so I would humbly suggest you STFU and stop over complicating everything

FYI I had two accidents as a kid PURELY because nobody had told me about counter steering, or because I had not done any research myself. As soon as I found out about it, I was a million times safer on my bike. Since then I have ravenously researched techniques (because NOBODY ELSE TELLS YOU OTHERWISE) and spread them around as much as I can for what they may be worth in helping others. I like to thinkthat in a very short time, my own riding has grown better exponentially. So, no, I WILL NOT STFU.


Why do you think Rossi (in particular) is called "The Doctor"? Do you think its because he learns the hard way by falling off a lot? Or do you think its because he analyses tracks, cambers, elevation, radiuses and gear ratios in depth, and goes out on track knowing exactly what works well, and where? I think you know the answer - nothing "natural" about it.

If you want to learn the hard way, fine. Then the school of hard knocks is for you. Dont overtax your straining brain with difficult thoughts. But your assertion that these people are "natural riders" is laughable. Riding is NOT intuitive for most techniques and for most people (and I argue that those that think it is natural for them are deluded). But encouraging a new rider to not even try to understand the basic techniques (or even find out about them) because its "over complicated" is downright criminal.

I admit I do tend to analyse thingsto the nth degree - and I do it out of curiosity and because I do learn that way (I prefer to learn from others mistakes) . If others dont want to be part of those discussion, dont read them. Some people do get useful info/tips out of it, and good on them. The OP ASKED what was the best way IN OUR OPINION - I told her.

I wanted to warn her about people that would try to discourage in-depth thought, learning of thoeretically good technique and application of teh technique on the road, and who apparently get abusive when any alternative than their own simple minded approach is recommended.

[R-Soul]

No, I call that a survival reaction that is brought forward by panic. To me, "what feels right" is a course of action that is ideal for the situation.

Sure, if you're a total wussbag who finds riding a motorcycle completely and utterly unnatural.

So if standing the bike up and braking hard (when going into a corner too hot) does not "feel right" then why do ALL newbie bikers (and a lot of 'ol boys too) still do it? It obviously IS the fallback position for the brain because it does feel the most comfortable.

[R-Soul]

FYI I had two accidents as a kid PURELY because nobody had told me about counter steering, or because I had not done any research myself. As soon as I found out about it, I was a million times safer on my bike. Since then I have ravenously researched techniques (because NOBODY ELSE TELLS YOU OTHERWISE) and spread them around as much as I can for what they may be worth in helping others. I like to thinkthat in a very short time, my own riding has grown better exponentially. So, no, I WILL NOT STFU.


Why do you think Rossi (in particular) is called "The Doctor"? Do you think its because he learns the hard way by falling off a lot? Or do you think its because he analyses tracks, cambers, elevation, radiuses and gear ratios in depth, and goes out on track knowing exactly what works well, and where? I think you know the answer - nothing "natural" about it.

If you want to learn the hard way, fine. Then the school of hard knocks is for you. Dont overtax your straining brain with difficult thoughts. But your assertion that these people are "natural riders" is laughable. Riding is NOT intuitive for most techniques and for most people (and I argue that those that think it is natural for them are deluded). But encouraging a new rider to not even try to understand the basic techniques (or even find out about them) because its "over complicated" is downright criminal.

I admit I do tend to analyse thingsto the nth degree - and I do it out of curiosity and because I do learn that way (I prefer to learn from others mistakes) . If others dont want to be part of those discussion, dont read them. Some people do get useful info/tips out of it, and good on them. The OP ASKED what was the best way IN OUR OPINION - I told her.

I wanted to warn her about people that would try to discourage in-depth thought, learning of thoeretically good technique and application of teh technique on the road, and who apparently get abusive when any alternative than their own simple minded approach is recomemnded.

And you will note from my original post tht I did not tell her to understand the physics - I told her to read up on techniques. Obviously asking people about them is also good. But FOOKING learn them from somewhere dammit!

[bogan]

FYI I had two accidents as a kid PURELY because nobody had told me about counter steering, or because I had not done any research myself.

<img src="http://www.motifake.com/demotivational-poster/0810/only-a-sith-deals-with-absolutes-motifakes-demotivational-poster-1225143426.jpg" height=480 />

[Sentox]

ONLY A SITH DEALS WITH ABSOLUTES

So is your philosophy more like this?

<img src="http://artcentric.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/star-wars-demotivational-poster.jpg" />

Just kiddin :laugh:

[Little Miss Trouble]

FYI I had two accidents as a kid PURELY because nobody had told me about counter steering, or because I had not done any research myself. As soon as I found out about it, I was a million times safer on my bike. Since then I have ravenously researched techniques (because NOBODY ELSE TELLS YOU OTHERWISE)

So you aren't a natural rider & you had no mates to help you?

Geez that must suck, good thing we aren't all like you huh?

[bogan]

So is your philosophy more like this?

http://artcentric.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/star-wars-demotivational-poster.jpg

Just kidding :laugh:

:lol: that kid really needed to look up a family tree or something.

[nodrog]

:lol: that kid really needed to look up a family tree or something.

its ok, isnt his name mark hamilton?

[R-Soul]

So you aren't a natural rider & you had no mates to help you?

Geez that must suck, good thing we aren't all like you huh?

No - my mates believed in learning naturally....
And when I was a kid, the internet didn't exist! Or else I could have gone on KB and be told to "do what comes naturally" by you....
And I am rather happy that you are nothing like me...

[davebullet]

Oh the humanity... Back on topic for the OP....

Oracle - Some questions:
1. Do you want to go over 60kph? (eg. do you want a powerful scooter or a motorcycle? Are you commuting in town or planning on highway riding?)
2. Is fuel economy important to you? (eg. Hornets will eat more gas than a Scorpio)
3. Are there any bikes you don't like the style of? (eg. cruiser, vs. standard naked, vs. standard faired, vs. sports faired)
4. How tall are you? (not a prying question - but affects seat height as some bikes can be difficult for the physically short - even learner ones)
5. Do you plan on keeping for a few years or might you want a bigger bike (I know - hard to know when you've never owned / ridden)
6. Is a new bike warranty important? (or can you / do you have a friend who can inspect a 2nd hand bike)
7. What is your budget? (allow $1,000 - $1,500 for decent protective riding gear - helmet, gloves, jacket, pants and boots). You'll need this not only to be safe but keep warm and dryish over winter

[oracle]

Oh the humanity... Back on topic for the OP....

Oracle - Some questions:
1. Do you want to go over 60kph? (eg. do you want a powerful scooter or a motorcycle? Are you commuting in town or planning on highway riding?)
2. Is fuel economy important to you? (eg. Hornets will eat more gas than a Scorpio)
3. Are there any bikes you don't like the style of? (eg. cruiser, vs. standard naked, vs. standard faired, vs. sports faired)
4. How tall are you? (not a prying question - but affects seat height as some bikes can be difficult for the physically short - even learner ones)
5. Do you plan on keeping for a few years or might you want a bigger bike (I know - hard to know when you've never owned / ridden)
6. Is a new bike warranty important? (or can you / do you have a friend who can inspect a 2nd hand bike)
7. What is your budget? (allow $1,000 - $1,500 for decent protective riding gear - helmet, gloves, jacket, pants and boots). You'll need this not only to be safe but keep warm and dryish over winter

1. Will definitely need to go over 60km/h cause I live at the end of the Northwestern motorway and go to uni in town and I get off before rush hour some days
2. Fuel economy would be good but not a huge priority, as long as it uses less than my car
3. I don't hate any type of bike but would definitely prefer a sports bike if I can get one
4. I understand why you ask, I'm pretty short tbh about 5'5" probably
5. I can probably see myself keeping it for a few years considering I will be at uni for another 6 years if all goes well
6. I have one friend who could come check it out for obvious flaws but was wondering if there were any professional places that I would be able to get to look at it for me (or some nice KBers who wouldn't mind being paid, perhaps in beer?) as I don't have the budget for a new bike
7. Excluding gear I'm looking for one about $2000, maybe a little bit less (yeah I know it won't be a great one) depends on how much money I can put together before next semester

[R-Soul]

1. Will definitely need to go over 60km/h cause I live at the end of the Northwestern motorway and go to uni in town and I get off before rush hour some days
2. Fuel economy would be good but not a huge priority, as long as it uses less than my car
3. I don't hate any type of bike but would definitely prefer a sports bike if I can get one
4. I understand why you ask, I'm pretty short tbh about 5'5" probably
5. I can probably see myself keeping it for a few years considering I will be at uni for another 6 years if all goes well
6. I have one friend who could come check it out for obvious flaws but was wondering if there were any professional places that I would be able to get to look at it for me (or some nice KBers who wouldn't mind being paid, perhaps in beer?) as I don't have the budget for a new bike
7. Excluding gear I'm looking for one about $2000, maybe a little bit less (yeah I know it won't be a great one) depends on how much money I can put together before next semester

Sportsbikes are not always great for commuting. A more upright seating position makes for better commutes. As I said, stick to Jap bikes for now. Maybe hyosungs - although the earlier models at least had bad build quality.
Hondas have traditionally good build quality (especially amongst older bikes) - but you can see it in the resale values. 1992 CBR250RR's till go for $5k.

Probably the best bet for that prices is a good deal on an older honda VTR 250.

[skinman]

Could I suggest that as you want a relaible bike for commuting that you definatly stay away from Lifan & Keeway or any other unknown. They may be fine but best not to be the tester esp as a being a student. Stay with Honda, Suzuki, Yamaha. As a learner get a bike with not to much plastic as you will drop it. Even if it just falls off stand or some other silly mistake if you break a fairing it will cost $$$$. Mine has fallen over & just scratched muffler (best thing about naked bikes). However a screen would be really nice esp on days like the last couple. Definatly get some gear, if nothing else it will help keep you dry (ish)

[oracle]

Hey, yeah I'm looking toward an fxr150 maybe or a gn250. I've found a couple which look ok in my price range and as a sports bike, the fxr150 doesn't have that much fairing.

[Little Miss Trouble]

This one appears to be in pretty reasonable nick http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-282629802.htm and has had a lot of recent maintainence work (always make sure you see reciepts for work that has supposedly been done) so shouldn't need big money spent on it for a while yet

[oracle]

This one appears to be in pretty reasonable nick http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-282629802.htm and has had a lot of recent maintainence work (always make sure you see reciepts for work that has supposedly been done) so shouldn't need big money spent on it for a while yet

That looks really good, too bad I don't think it'll be round till next semester :( Man I wish my scholarship money would come in sooner

[Little Miss Trouble]

That looks really good, too bad I don't think it'll be round till next semester :( Man I wish my scholarship money would come in sooner

Depending how much you already have, course related costs?

[oracle]

Depending how much you already have, course related costs?

Can only get $1700 together right now, with course related so I'll have to wait and hope there's something as good when I have my money

[Gwinch]

Can only get $1700 together right now, with course related so I'll have to wait and hope there's something as good when I have my money

Prices are (almost) always negotiable, and cash is a big motivator...

[oracle]

Prices are (almost) always negotiable, and cash is a big motivator...

Yeah I could imagine them coming down like a couple hundred but I'd still be $400 short and considering my parents don't want me to get it anyway I can't really see them helping me out here :P

[bittertwistedcute]

Great bike to learn on and build confidence, LMT is spot on with this recommendation - although I would find someone to check out the state of the bike itself - the type is great

Good luck


This one appears to be in pretty reasonable nick http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-282629802.htm and has had a lot of recent maintainence work (always make sure you see reciepts for work that has supposedly been done) so shouldn't need big money spent on it for a while yet

[The Pastor]

Seriously. Get a bike that is made in Japan, and has a bit of oomph behind it. the power is actually helpful in dodgy situations. and just because youhave it doesn't mean you have to use it (yeah right!).

Jap bikes have decent servicing costs, decent reliability, and decent resale value. And dont fall apart and are not made with dodgy materials and dodgy design. Lifan may be cheap short term but I think it could bite you later....

And honestly, get yourself a decent tutor/trainer and do a few courses AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE (the ride right ride safe course for one). And do reading of books. Specifically and most importantly, learn what counter steering is, and DO IT consciously for as long as it takes until it becomes subconscious.

Biking is ALL about technique. Poor technique is poor control, and lack of confidence. Riding while being unconfident in your abilities to control the bike is damn scary and takes away from the pure joy that is avialable otherwise. And with good technique, even a relative newbie can ride better than some "experienced" riders that have retained bad habits because they have never bothered to get off their ass and think/learn a bit more....

You can tell these riders on the forum by their comments:
"Dont overthink it - just ride"
"Its not a science lesson, just go out and do it", etc.




Man you sound like such an egg roll

[The Pastor]

Can only get $1700 together right now, with course related so I'll have to wait and hope there's something as good when I have my money

Are you at auckland uni? Come hang out at strata 4.30ish to 5 is where the SMC club meets every friday. It only costs $1 to join :)

(if ur not at auckland uni, you can still come its not a AU only club, anyone can come hang)

[Thani-B]

I started on a gn250 and it was fine for me. If you want to catch up to talk, join us at Strata... Or give me a PM if you wanna females perspective.

Also, biomed, that's cool. It's what I wanted to do but ended up at Massey doing Bio instead. Hopefully will be able to get to AU to do biomed next sem or next year.

[R-Soul]

Man you sound like such an egg roll

and you sound dangerous.

[R-Soul]

and you sound dangerous.

OK just to get my street cred back (do I lose it again for saying "street cred"?) here goes:

Nah, dont bother even coming on these forums to try and learn anything- biking is reaally easy and it all just comes to you naturally after you fuck around for years on end. Just make sure you wear really good gear, because you are going to need it. Eventually you will get it (or not...) - here's hoping that you will still be alive at the time. If not, hey, you can always try again next life (if your'e Buddhist - otherwise its game over for you).

[Ryder]

Hey sugar :) Riding is so much fun! it will give you a new lease on life! picking the right bike for you - sit on it and you will just know - it will feel right. don't just pick a bike cos you think its cool. make sure that its running right etc and get a background check and a mechanical done or alternatively buy from a dealer. Red baron do learner packages on some of thier bikes so that you are able to get a bike and get fully geared for a good price. you could maybe talk to Matthew there for some advice on picking the right bike. he is there every saturday.

Maybe try going to NASS on a Wednesday night once you get a bike. My partner often mentors there and there are some other great mentors the go to share their knowledge and experiences. they all practice skills of different kinds and then go to bar africa for a drink and a natter afterward. its good fun and good company and a great way to pick up new skills, tips and advice and squeeze in a little practice too :) and currently there is a lady going that is a almost learner in that she hasnt ridden in years and has just got back into it on a harley so don't worry about being new to it all cos they welcome all people from all walks of life and tend to all skill sets :)

[oracle]

I started on a gn250 and it was fine for me. If you want to catch up to talk, join us at Strata... Or give me a PM if you wanna females perspective.

Also, biomed, that's cool. It's what I wanted to do but ended up at Massey doing Bio instead. Hopefully will be able to get to AU to do biomed next sem or next year.

Hey Thandi, thanks I've got a lecture till 5 on fridays so I might try coming next week when lectures are finished, otherwise next semester.
I hope you get in, it's a really interesting degree full on though, just get in touch if I can help with anything to do with biomed

[oracle]

Hey sugar :) Riding is so much fun! it will give you a new lease on life! picking the right bike for you - sit on it and you will just know - it will feel right. don't just pick a bike cos you think its cool. make sure that its running right etc and get a background check and a mechanical done or alternatively buy from a dealer. Red baron do learner packages on some of thier bikes so that you are able to get a bike and get fully geared for a good price. you could maybe talk to Matthew there for some advice on picking the right bike. he is there every saturday.

Maybe try going to NASS on a Wednesday night once you get a bike. My partner often mentors there and there are some other great mentors the go to share their knowledge and experiences. they all practice skills of different kinds and then go to bar africa for a drink and a natter afterward. its good fun and good company and a great way to pick up new skills, tips and advice and squeeze in a little practice too :) and currently there is a lady going that is a almost learner in that she hasnt ridden in years and has just got back into it on a harley so don't worry about being new to it all cos they welcome all people from all walks of life and tend to all skill sets :)

Thanks Ryder, I've definitely been looking at that once I get a bike. I think it's so awesome that there are people who are willing to donate their time to pass on their knowledge to other riders. Good to see the real community that revolves around riding

[Thani-B]

Hey Thandi, thanks I've got a lecture till 5 on fridays so I might try coming next week when lectures are finished, otherwise next semester.
I hope you get in, it's a really interesting degree full on though, just get in touch if I can help with anything to do with biomed

We are usually there for a few hours, so if you can make it it would be good to meet you.
And yeah, I'm hoping too. What are you heading towards with it?

[oracle]

We are usually there for a few hours, so if you can make it it would be good to meet you.
And yeah, I'm hoping too. What are you heading towards with it?

Sweet as, I might come round this Friday then
Well next year, I'm thinking of focussing more on reproduction or cardiology but ultimately I want ot get into med school the following year. Otherwise idk really, maybe midwifery or something, can't really see myself stuck in a lab all day

[Ryder]

Thanks Ryder, I've definitely been looking at that once I get a bike. I think it's so awesome that there are people who are willing to donate their time to pass on their knowledge to other riders. Good to see the real community that revolves around riding

you're welcome :) and i very much agree with that! i was quite pleasantly surprised by that when i first joined KB too. Riding is a passion and a life long love. it is great being able to communicate on and offline with and organize rides and events with like minded people. We try to look out for each other as a community. for this reason i think a lot of people are happy to share their knowledge and experience freely with others. My partner says he does it so that people can be provided with the correct knowledge instead of having to make it up as you go like he had to - he learnt the hard way and wants to save the world! lol :)

[2nd2last1]

buy mine... lol
good learner.... taught my mate on the road in 10mins :)

[Mrs Busa Pete]

Here is a bike that would be VERY suitable for Learning on. CBR125 (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/123607-Cbr125?p=1129755810#post1129755810) Currently for sale...........

Very good choose there and while you are at it would give dawn a call to help with the licence process. Have herd a lot of good feedback. I myself will go to dawn when i ready to go that step further.

[oracle]

My partner says he does it so that people can be provided with the correct knowledge instead of having to make it up as you go like he had to - he learnt the hard way and wants to save the world! lol :)

Haha well hopefully I'll meet him one day when I finally get licence and wheels, otherwise good luck for saving the world to him :p


buy mine... lol
good learner.... taught my mate on the road in 10mins :)

Wow, I think I'm gonna take a bit longer to learn than that


Very good choose there and while you are at it would give dawn a call to help with the licence process. Have herd a lot of good feedback. I myself will go to dawn when i ready to go that step further.

Sorry, I'm showing my ignorance here; dawn?

[Little Miss Trouble]

Dawn = Qkchk, shes's a license instructor. I have plans to send my brother to her for his license when he gets of his arse & gets motivated to get a bike

[Scorp]

Hey everyone, if you could help me with some advice that's be great. Atm I'm just looking into starting to ride, hoping to get my learners in the uni holidays once I'm out of the craziness that is doing biomed. Was looking round at a couple of bikes and would like to know if Lifan is any good? Also any advice for a real beginner. Cheers
Hi Oracle. I'm new to all this too, only a little further down the road. Personally, as someone who's working his way through the process of trying to learn how to ride a bike, I'd say that the advice given here by R-Soul and Sentox is worth it's weight in gold.

Some posters say things like: "if you're thinking about it you're doing it wrong." But acquiring knowledge through books, talking to bikers, learning from your instructor, is not the same thing as 'thinking it through' while you're doing it.

For example, I'm really glad I read, digested, and fully understood the physics behind counter-steering before I first applied it. But while I was doing it, I was not 'thinking' about the physics. I was thinking, "wow, this feels awesome," with a big grin across my face.

I will continue to consciously use the technique until it becomes second (unconscious) nature. Same goes for all the other techniques. For me, it makes sense to understand the techniques first, then apply them, then practice them, then acquire them as second nature. A good instructor is going to be invaluable, but books do help in the understanding of how a bike works. I found "Proficient Motorcycling" by David L. Hough to be a brilliant primer.

[oracle]

Dawn = Qkchk, shes's a license instructor. I have plans to send my brother to her for his license when he gets of his arse & gets motivated to get a bike
Oh right, yeah she looks like a really great trader. I've got a voucher for Riderskills, so would like to use that if I can. Does anyone know how they compare in quality? Or if Riderskills is any good?



Hi Oracle. I'm new to all this too, only a little further down the road. Personally, as someone who's working his way through the process of trying to learn how to ride a bike, I'd say that the advice given here by R-Soul and Sentox is worth it's weight in gold.

Some posters say things like: "if you're thinking about it you're doing it wrong." But acquiring knowledge through books, talking to bikers, learning from your instructor, is not the same thing as 'thinking it through' while you're doing it.

For example, I'm really glad I read, digested, and fully understood the physics behind counter-steering before I first applied it. But while I was doing it, I was not 'thinking' about the physics. I was thinking, "wow, this feels awesome," with a big grin across my face.

I will continue to consciously use the technique until it becomes second (unconscious) nature. Same goes for all the other techniques. For me, it makes sense to understand the techniques first, then apply them, then practice them, then acquire them as second nature. A good instructor is going to be invaluable, but books do help in the understanding of how a bike works. I found "Proficient Motorcycling" by David L. Hough to be a brilliant primer.

Thanks Scorp. Not that I have any real experience yet, but I would definitely agree with this advice from experience with other parts of life such as sports I've played. You may be able to do something and you may be fairly good at it but understanding whysomething works can only help improve technique (guess that what draws me to science).

I'll look for that book. Gonna see what the local library has first, hopefully can acquire some free knowledge. Knowledge may be freedom, but it is rarely free :P

[Riderskills]

Hi Oracle,

Good to see you taking the first step in your motorcycling career

Use the voucher for riderskills and save yourself some of the expense,

Then report back on here about your experience so everyone gets some feedback about the quality of our training. Any questions about our professionalism should be allayed by reading through the forums on kiwibiker.

I would echo the sentiment here that the Ride right ride safe course at whenuapai is a great add on to your basic handling skills training.

Philip McDaid Chief Instructor - Riderskills
Chief Examiner (motorcycles) - Institute of advanced Motorists (NZ)
NZTA Approved riding instructor

[oracle]

He, another question. When I do start to seriosusly look at bikes what sort of mileage should I be looking to stay under? It doesn't need to last forever, just about 2 years so I can get my full and maybe upgrade at that point.

There is an fxr150 on trademe <a href="http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=293850883">here</a> that looks good and I like the fact that it has a service history available but am afraid the k's could be quite high

[Gibbo89]

He, another question. When I do start to seriosusly look at bikes what sort of mileage should I be looking to stay under? It doesn't need to last forever, just about 2 years so I can get my full and maybe upgrade at that point.

There is an fxr150 on trademe <a href="http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=293850883">here</a> that looks good and I like the fact that it has a service history available but am afraid the k's could be quite high

k's are not really relevant, it is to do with how well the bike has been maintained and serviced. an fxr would be a good bike to learn on. you will find bikes with high k's are still running really well, if the proper servicing has taken place. and, of course, just get a pre purchase check if your getting a bike privately.

[oracle]

Hey everyone, I've bought the fxr and it got delivered today, now I just have to get my licence. Basic handling skills test and training booked for the 19th through riderskills so will likely be slowly out on the road by the end of the month. :D

[slofox]

Hey everyone, I've bought the fxr and it got delivered today, now I just have to get my licence. Basic handling skills test and training booked for the 19th through riderskills so will likely be slowly out on the road by the end of the month. :D

Well done - have fun!!

[Henk]

If you want to see what FXRs with decent tyres are capable of turn up at the bucket meet next weekend at Mt Wellington for a look.

[Gone Burger]

Well done miss. I'm sure you'll have a blast on your new bike. Now go get the licence ;)

[Gibbo89]

Hey everyone, I've bought the fxr and it got delivered today, now I just have to get my licence. Basic handling skills test and training booked for the 19th through riderskills so will likely be slowly out on the road by the end of the month. :D

congrats. :)

[tate35]

Best to learn away from the road if you can. A small dirt bike in a paddock is my suggestion.
Welcome to the site :)

Yes like Kiwifruit says, "learn on a small dirtbike in a paddock". That's how I first learnt, on a little xr100 down at our local river, away from trafffic and mayhem, learning on a small dirt or trail bike will give you lots of confidence. Good luck :)

[oracle]

If anyone is interested, I just got my learner's today (not just laziness needed to make sure I had ID for when my mate from Otago was up). Didn't get a chance to ride today cause I'm a bit crook but am aiming for Friday. Cleaned the chain on the fxr today though and they guy who owned it before me kept the rest of it in pretty good condition but my god the chain was shocking caked in crap and took an hour and about half a litre of kero to clean it all off. Never again will I let it get that bad if for no other reason than the time!

[Neshi]

congratulations on the license, I hope you enjoy it as much as I did when I first stepped on the bike!
good to hear you really care for the bike :)

[Gone Burger]

Congrats girl. No stopping you now! License - check. Bike - check. Ready to roll!

[Scorp]

If anyone is interested, I just got my learner's today (not just laziness needed to make sure I had ID for when my mate from Otago was up). Didn't get a chance to ride today cause I'm a bit crook but am aiming for Friday. Cleaned the chain on the fxr today though and they guy who owned it before me kept the rest of it in pretty good condition but my god the chain was shocking caked in crap and took an hour and about half a litre of kero to clean it all off. Never again will I let it get that bad if for no other reason than the time!
Congrats and enjoy riding on and learning from your new machine!

From the sounds of that chain you might want to take it for a spin down to the local Suzi dealer and ask them to have a look at it though. Just a thought.

[oracle]

From the sounds of that chain you might want to take it for a spin down to the local Suzi dealer and ask them to have a look at it though. Just a thought.

Yeah I'm planning on doing that as soon as I have enough confidence to ride to it cause it's got a bit of rust on the outside as well

[Roadsafe Nelson]

I'd be a much worse rider without a systematic application of learning and practice. Get any training you can, read everything you can. Knowledge is power.

I've still got a lot to work on (and probably will do until the day I die), but at least whenever I go out and ride I feel completely in control of the bike. It's not about over-confidence, it's about having a grasp of the mental and physical aspects of riding so that the bike simply does what you want it to do, rather than you fighting against it.

Bingo.. good point! Education is the secret to safe riding..Learn in a friendly, low pressure environment where you learn the skills necessary to keep yourself and others safe on the road, Gain confidence and have FUN while riding!

[oracle]

So after the lurgy and then being too busy to take out the bike, I tried yesterday to find (with no surprise really) that the battery was flat. After giving it a charge overnight I tried again today. Started off great, pulled out of the driveway and within 10 seconds was going over twice what I had ever done (in the BHS). I'm thinking "this is great", but then things started to change. I wasn't getting as much power for the same amount of throttle and then no power whatsoever. Got to the end of the road and the roundabout and the bike just died. Tried starting it again and wouldn't turn over. With a queue forming behind me I started to panic and whilst trying to push the bike off the road I accidentally let it down. No real damage, just a crack and a bit scuffed up of the plastic of the wing mirror. After a the person behind me very nicely helped me get it back up and onto the footpath I had to look for the mirror which had popped out. I got help from another nice person who found it and let me use her driveway to figure out what was wrong. Thinking of the problem with the throttle before it died, reminded me of threads I've read where people run out of fuel. But I knew the tank was about half full, so that couldn't be it. That's when I remembered about the fuel tap... which I forgot to turn on :doh: I turned the tap and tried to get out of there as quick as possible before her biker partner realised my stupid mistake
After that very noob mistake, the rest of the ride was awesome! A few idiots pulling out where the gap wasn't big enough, I was keeping an eye on them so was expecting it and the only time I stalled was whilst trying to do a hilstart on a big hill at another roundabout (definitely need more practise at those, well at everything really).
Anyway, despite the (what I consider) little hiccup, I definitely enjoy riding and am looking forward to a longer ride tomorrow!

[Gone Burger]

That a girl! Believe me, MOST of us here have done very similar - both with the fuel tap and laying it down - oh and stalling :) Yes, I admit to all of the above in my first year of riding.

So well done for thinking it through, not getting too shaken up about laying her down, and then getting it going again and continuing on your ride. Its easy to let experiences like these put us off on the day. Pleased to hear you are heading out again tomorrow for another ride. Have a GREAT ride, and a safe one.

Its good fun learning isn't it? I love your attitude to it all ;)

[R-Soul]

Thinking of the problem with the throttle before it died, reminded me of threads I've read where people run out of fuel. But I knew the tank was about half full, so that couldn't be it. That's when I remembered about the fuel tap... which I forgot to turn on :doh: I turned the tap and tried to get out of there as quick as possible before her biker partner realised my stupid mistake


Well done! - good clear, logical thinking through the problem, and not panicking - clearmindedness under pressure.

It helps to have a little pre-pulloff routine (like an aircraft pilot would go through before takeoff) to avoid incidents like that. Testing tyres for hardness, and lights for operation should probably also be there, since the effect of them not being properly operational can have nasty consequences.

[geekay]

Just remember resale is a factor to be aware of, whats the resale like on Lifan ? I had a Hyosung (GV250) and had no problems in the two years I rode it so from experince it was great, but I would stick to mainstream manufacturers if possible, cheapest price is not always the best.
Some of the others have suggested driver training and I fully endorse this option, get all the help you can from other bikers, learn the difference between good and stupid road manners, let others make mistakes for you because it can be painful.
Get good gear, pants, jacket and helmut and gloves and wear it, it could save a lot of skin and even your life.