MNZ AGM, anyone got any news?

[Kiwi Graham]

So a weekend of some of the most influential minds in motorcycle racing.

Has anyone heard what has been decided?

Have we all got to sell our bikes cos they've changed the specs?

Can we all fit Tc & Qs's?

Have they outlawed that obscenely fast BMW?

[roadracingoldfart]

So a weekend of some of the most influential minds in motorcycle racing.

Has anyone heard what has been decided?

Have we all got to sell our bikes cos they've changed the specs?

Can we all fit Tc & Qs's?


Have they outlawed that obscenely fast BMW?


Get hold of Ian Dawson , he was there and has posted a few details on face ache.

Paul.

[Maido]

Straight off Ian's Face palm page:.........

Back from Motorcycling New Zealand AGM in Wellington, Great weekend . Mike Pero is the new Patron of Motorcycling New Zealand

Unofficially Looks like Supers and Superstock could possibly be aligned with Aussie rules and 250GPs are in Formula 3.All discussed all still to be ratified. Three races per round for Supers 600 etc. And a superpole style qualifying.
New Names for Classes. Superbike , Superstock 1000 , Supersport , Superstock 600. F3 now SPORTBIKE. 250 4 Strokes now to be Super-Lite , run with streetstock.
125GP and Sidecar names still the same....
Rounds still to be decided , have had 4 Clubs express interest. Dates to be decided and number of rounds should be decided within a month. Order of rounds and time of year may not be the usual.
Other proposed rules tabled. New Jumped Start Rule and Starting proceedure, New rule for opening and closing of pit lane and formation on grid.Recommendation that complete set of flags on every marshall post (including red flag).
New tyre allocation rule. Bar coded tyre checking may be tried.Suspension will be open , in all classes except 600 Superstock should the Australian rules be adopted. In this class the suspension will be modified stock.
BMW 1000 has been requested by BMW NZ for homologation and is currently being processed.Aprillia and KTM have yet to file homolgation requests.This must be done for the national series , but is fine for everything else.

[eelracing]

250GP's in Formula 3...yew beauties.Gotta get me one of those.

[slowpoke]

I'm likin' the sound of that lil' lot, well done to all the people/clubs who made the effort to attend. Bring on 2011!

[budda]

actually 6 clubs indicating interest in a Champs Round !!!!!! proposed new rules to be distributed to all those who left their emails with the MNZ team, and will be posted on MNZ's website for a time to enable consultation ( i.e. feedback from the riders ) Suggestyou read them and get back to the Commission with positive comments, not just "that wont work" - if we can get to a workable compromise, indications are that any changes may take effect earlier than usual

[CHOPPA]

Sounds good to me! Oz superstock rules are very good for the 1000. Cant wait to see the rules!

Oz classes run control tyres though doubt we will be

[roadracingoldfart]

Sounds good to me! Oz superstock rules are very good for the 1000. Cant wait to see the rules!

Oz classes run control tyres though doubt we will be

Choppa , Knowing the Aussie rules like you do , is there many of our local bikes that would qualify easily or would it kill of a few of the candidates due to cost to convert back ??
Not stirring , just curious.

Paul.

[Kiwi Graham]

http://www.ma.org.au/index.php?id=142
For Aussie regs

[CHOPPA]

Choppa , Knowing the Aussie rules like you do , is there many of our local bikes that would qualify easily or would it kill of a few of the candidates due to cost to convert back ??
Not stirring , just curious.

Paul.

The oz superbike rules are more open then ours. I think they allow slightly diff head and piston modifications but thats not going to be an issue. It will still leave the older fully built supers out but there should be some sort of homologation law that protects those bikes.

Superstock rules are very good. You can run fork internals and diff shock. Head gasket changed. Full exhaust. Powercommander or similar.

No cams, no full ecu, no race wire looms, Tyres would be something NZ has to figure out but will prob be DOT.

They also make you run a shark fin thing on your swing arm for the chain. They make you use reinforced engine covers to stop oil spills from crashes

[Biggles08]

They also make you run a shark fin thing on your swing arm for the chain. They make you use reinforced engine covers to stop oil spills from crashes

The Coles would be interested in that wee addition I'm sure! Good Idea I think.

[Crasherfromwayback]

250GP's in Formula 3...yew beauties.Gotta get me one of those.

Here ya go then mate! A brand new in crate 2007 RS250! Having ridden an RS250...I can assure you you really do want one!

[Maido]

I think it is great to see the ship heading in a good direction. Steering towards a set of rules that is on par with Australia is logical. Hoefully that will entice our riders to head there and more to come here.

[gixerracer]

Yea I herd Pirelli got it??? For sbk and 1000 stock and conti for the 600 classes???
Sounds good to me! Oz superstock rules are very good for the 1000. Cant wait to see the rules!

Oz classes run control tyres though doubt we will be

[Kevin G]

Really I heard it was Bridgestone!

[gixerracer]

U r not allowed to get in on my shit stirin LOL
Really I heard it was Bridgestone!

[Kevin G]

Could not resist.....

[Maarty]

From the horses mouth as it were,

Bridgestone got the SBK fronts, Pirelli got SBK rears, SSSTK fronts, DUNLOP got SSSTK rears, and Gonti got all Supersport!
Nangkang got F3 and Shinko got Streetstock rears, Yokohama got Streetstock fronts!

We didn't want to be seen favouring anyone you see!

So now you know!

[Kevin G]

Who is the horse?

[Kiwi Graham]

I heard Michelin were doing suspension and CKT were doing tyres.......could be wrong.

[Ivan]

250GP's in Formula 3...yew beauties.Gotta get me one of those.



Thats not good a 125GP can run at the front of F3 let alone a 250 GP bike anyone remember Glen SKachill riding a RS250 dominating Supersport or f2

Might get me 250 then and go race that

[steveyb]

Dominating is pretty far from the truth Ivan.
He won one race that was in weather better suited to ducks than bike racing due to his superior rain riding skill and MotoGP rain tyres I managed to score.
In the dry he showed what 250GP bikes are capable of, but far from dominated.
I will be suggesting that the 250's are limited to year 2000 for Honda (ie up to NX5, no NXA's) and up to 2001 for Yamaha, so no latest generation bikes so that we can see whether it acutally works or not. But I won't be stomping my feet and crying foul if MNZ decide (after consultation) just to leave it open.
Would be great to see Karel P out again in an NZ level race on her 250. You never know, maybe I'll pull Mikes one out of his little shed where it is sitting all neglected.
My '89 Honda is unlikely to see an F3 race, but y'know y'never know, y'know.
Pete is on the money, it is still possible to buy late model 250s and the odd brand new one still (for what, $30k?? or something??), but you still have to be able to ride them and tune them.
I will say it again, I think there are a bunch of riders out there, and it is evidenced by Ivans comment, even if it was tounge in cheek, that think that buying and riding a 250GP bike will magically win them the F3, sorry, SPORTBIKE, title. Those riders need to have a good think about that.
My own feeling is that really not many will come out of the woodwork, but at least the rule change will allow it.
Oh, and have a look at the track records for F3 and 125GP and the average top level laptimes.
With the new crop of F3 bikes their laptimes are lower than the majority of 125GP riders by 1-3 seconds a lap in general terms.
The speed away from the line also gives 125GP a major disadvantage right from the start.

[Kickaha]

Yokohama got Streetstock fronts!!

When you consider they haven't made a motorcycle tyre since the mid nineties it will be interesting to see how that works out :bleh:

[CHOPPA]

haha can you imagine someone rolling up on a 2009 RSR250 for formula 3!

[steveyb]

And before y'all go off half cocked, remember that these are only proposals suggested by the Road Race Commission.
If you want to make a submission, PM Budda or Kevin G or Dawson I and get a copy of the proposals and make a submission.

[steveyb]

haha can you imagine someone rolling up on a 2009 RSR250 for formula 3!

Be pretty sweet but ay? (except that a 2009 RS250 really is only a 2002 RS 250, no changes since then).

Sort of like a 2010 BMW Superbike in Superstock or whatever. hehehehe

[Ivan]

wasnt meant to offend anyone in my post just putting my opinion out there I am no longer in the class and it does not worry me to write in about it I was just stating my views on it they are my own personal ones

[eelracing]

Might get me 250 then and go race that


I reckon you'd be crazy not to if the new ruling goes ahead.
A 250GP bike will cream any SV based rocket in a straight line.(let alone corners)

Syeveyb you are right re;125's but an up and coming young fella like say Ivan should have a good look at a 250.Hell Jason Easton would be crazy not to think of it and even KB's own Glen Williams has said as much in the two stroke thread.

[Ivan]

I was joking for abit of fun I would love to race one tho but now am in 600's If I knew this was going to happen Iwould have got a 250 instead tho

[gixerracer]

I cant remember the last time someone on a 250 even went close to going fast no one knows how to tune or ride them properly I dont thinkthe current f3 front runner have mcuh to worrie about at this stage
Thats not good a 125GP can run at the front of F3 let alone a 250 GP bike anyone remember Glen SKachill riding a RS250 dominating Supersport or f2

Might get me 250 then and go race that

[Crasherfromwayback]

I cant remember the last time someone on a 250 even went close to going fast no one knows how to tune or ride them properly I dont thinkthe current f3 front runner have mcuh to worrie about at this stage

That's because you haven't been round for that long! But Simon Turner and Bruce Ainstey were both pretty handy on them...and tuning them ain't magic. I can assure you if someone with some skill got hold of a late model one...it'd be bye bye SV650!

[jellywrestler]

That's because you haven't been round for that long! But Simon Turner and Bruce Ainstey were both pretty handy on them...and tuning them ain't magic. I can assure you if someone with some skill got hold of a late model one...it'd be bye bye SV650! Ant Young was a weapon on a 250 too. Anstey held the lap record at Ruapuna over and above the Britten too 250's go like a Raped duck with the right set-up

[steveyb]

I cant remember the last time someone on a 250 even went close to going fast no one knows how to tune or ride them properly I dont thinkthe current f3 front runner have mcuh to worrie about at this stage

Good on ya.

[Kickaha]

Ant Young was a weapon on a 250 too. Anstey held the lap record at Ruapuna over and above the Britten too 250's go like a Raped duck with the right set-up

You sure about that?
I thought the fastest 250GP was Hayen Bool at around the 1.34-35 mark while the Britten had the outright bike record at 1.32 which stood until Stroud broke it at the John Britten Memorial meeting

[k14]

Well here is a good comparison. Jay Lawrence riding a RS250 in 2007 in the Spirit of Speed at teretonga nationals. He won with a fastest lap of 1.02.9. This year's fastest F3 lap was 1.03.7 by Terry Fitzgerald. So just under a second slower and that is 3 years later. In 06 F3 was doing pretty much same lap times. 600's were in mid 60s lap times. Teretonga would be the least favourable for the 250 too, at the rest of the tracks it would be even more beneficial to the 250. I think that is probably the best comparison in recent years and definately shows a good rider on decent bike would clean up very easily. It all depends on how many of them show up!

Edit: Forgot to say, got laptimes off mylaps here (http://www.mylaps.com/results/showevent.jsp?id=183379)

[Kiwi Graham]

Straight off Ian's Face palm page:.........

Back from Motorcycling New Zealand AGM in Wellington, Great weekend . Mike Pero is the new Patron of Motorcycling New Zealand

Unofficially Looks like Supers and Superstock could possibly be aligned with Aussie rules and 250GPs are in Formula 3.All discussed all still to be ratified. Three races per round for Supers 600 etc. And a superpole style qualifying.
New Names for Classes. Superbike , Superstock 1000 , Supersport , Superstock 600. F3 now SPORTBIKE. 250 4 Strokes now to be Super-Lite , run with streetstock.
125GP and Sidecar names still the same....
Rounds still to be decided , have had 4 Clubs express interest. Dates to be decided and number of rounds should be decided within a month. Order of rounds and time of year may not be the usual.
Other proposed rules tabled. New Jumped Start Rule and Starting proceedure, New rule for opening and closing of pit lane and formation on grid.Recommendation that complete set of flags on every marshall post (including red flag).
New tyre allocation rule. Bar coded tyre checking may be tried.Suspension will be open , in all classes except 600 Superstock should the Australian rules be adopted. In this class the suspension will be modified stock.
BMW 1000 has been requested by BMW NZ for homologation and is currently being processed.Aprillia and KTM have yet to file homolgation requests.This must be done for the national series , but is fine for everything else.

Any idea when it will all be ratified?

Super pole!!

like the idea but its going to make for a long day!

[Kickaha]

Super pole!!

like the idea but its going to make for a long day!

Super pole!!

Hate the idea, it's going to make for a long day, especially as they run out of time now

[k14]

Super pole!!

Hate the idea, it's going to make for a long day, especially as they run out of time now
Yeah agree, waste of time and will be boring for everyone. Most of the tracks have terrible sound systems so you can't hear the commentary properly. Secondly they have no intermediate timing beacons so you have no idea if the rider is doing any good till he crosses the line.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Well here is a good comparison. Jay Lawrence riding a RS250 in 2007 in the Spirit of Speed at teretonga nationals. He won with a fastest lap of 1.02.9. This year's fastest F3 lap was 1.03.7 by Terry Fitzgerald. So just under a second slower and that is 3 years later. In 06 F3 was doing pretty much same lap times. 600's were in mid 60s lap times. Teretonga would be the least favourable for the 250 too, at the rest of the tracks it would be even more beneficial to the 250. I think that is probably the best comparison in recent years and definately shows a good rider on decent bike would clean up very easily. It all depends on how many of them show up!

Edit: Forgot to say, got laptimes off mylaps here (http://www.mylaps.com/results/showevent.jsp?id=183379)

No disrespect to Jay...but I don't think he's in Simon or Bruce's league...especially not on a GP bike.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Ant Young was a weapon on a 250 too. Anstey held the lap record at Ruapuna over and above the Britten too 250's go like a Raped duck with the right set-up

Never come up against Ant. He started racing 250 proddies when I finished, and I started racing 883's when he'd finished! But did he actually ride a GP bike?

[k14]

No disrespect to Jay...but I don't think he's in Simon or Bruce's league...especially not on a GP bike.
Never said he was, just said good rider on a decent spec bike would clean up. Now get a great rider and a well spec'd 250 and they would make the 600's look slow.

[Ivan]

Never said he was, just said good rider on a decent spec bike would clean up. Now get a great rider and a well spec'd 250 and they would make the 600's look slow.

Will agree with you there for sure and theres more than a few people in this country capable of doing that

[cowpoos]

I cant remember the last time someone on a 250 even went close to going fast no one knows how to tune or ride them properly I dont thinkthe current f3 front runner have mcuh to worrie about at this stage

So you won't be racing one??? it would blow less smoke than your CBR :P

[gixerracer]

Been round longer than that I raced both of them, U missed my point no one in recent times bruce been gone for more than 10 yrs and simon not much less tell me the last time someone in nz lapped a track faster ona gp250 than current f3 times you will be going along way back
That's because you haven't been round for that long! But Simon Turner and Bruce Ainstey were both pretty handy on them...and tuning them ain't magic. I can assure you if someone with some skill got hold of a late model one...it'd be bye bye SV650!

[gixerracer]

lol not if i tune it
So you won't be racing one??? it would blow less smoke than your CBR :P

[gixerracer]

Will agree with you there for sure and theres more than a few people in this country capable of doing that

no there isnt

[gixerracer]

wot
Good on ya.

prove me wrong bob

[Crasherfromwayback]

Been round longer than that I raced both of them, U missed my point no one in recent times bruce been gone for more than 10 yrs and simon not much less tell me the last time someone in nz lapped a track faster ona gp250 than current f3 times you will be going along way back

Which is exactly MY point mate! The hot lap time on an F3 bike at Manfeild is what...1-11? Those times were beaten 10 years ago by GP bikes. Imagine what a decent GP jockey would do to those times now. When did you race Simon and Bruce...and what on? Either of them on a GP bike?

[gixerracer]

Which is exactly MY point mate! The hot lap time on an F3 bike at Manfeild is what...1-11? Those times were beaten 10 years ago by GP bikes. Imagine what a decent GP jockey would do to those times now. When did you race Simon and Bruce...and what on? Either of them on a GP bike?

My point is that we dont have any body even close to those guys level that would ride a 250gp bike in f3 any body that good will be racing at a higher level.
No body has been close to the times bruce done and as this class died a slow horrible death in NZ I doubt we will see any one do it soon.
I raced against bruce a few times but i never raced 250gp bikes I did follow him round manfeild a few times him on tz me on rgv so I didnt learn much from that.
Simon was never as good as he would like us all to beleive:shit:

[Sketchy_Racer]

Which is exactly MY point mate! The hot lap time on an F3 bike at Manfeild is what...1-11? Those times were beaten 10 years ago by GP bikes. Imagine what a decent GP jockey would do to those times now. When did you race Simon and Bruce...and what on? Either of them on a GP bike?

Manfeild F3 lap record was set in 2009 at a 1:12.0 and the fastest time I ever managed on a 250GP bike was 1:12.8 as a noob so it would be easily capable of doing 1:10s I would have thought on a "NZ spec" 250. Manfeild is not a track that is favorable for 250GP bikes, the difference would be even greater at other tracks. Does anyone know what the lap record was on a 250GP bike around Manfeild?

[Crasherfromwayback]

My point is that we dont have any body even close to those guys level that would ride a 250gp bike in f3 any body that good will be racing at a higher level.
No body has been close to the times bruce done and as this class died a slow horrible death in NZ I doubt we will see any one do it soon.
I raced against bruce a few times but i never raced 250gp bikes I did follow him round manfeild a few times him on tz me on rgv so I didnt learn much from that.
Simon was never as good as he would like us all to beleive:shit:

Can't agree with you on the last bit sorry. On the day (when he was on), Simon was every bit as fast as Bruce. It's just that Bruce was fast all the time.


Manfeild F3 lap record was set in 2009 at a 1:12.0 and the fastest time I ever managed on a 250GP bike was 1:12.8 as a noob so it would be easily capable of doing 1:10s I would have thought on a "NZ spec" 250. Manfeild is not a track that is favorable for 250GP bikes, the difference would be even greater at other tracks. Does anyone know what the lap record was on a 250GP bike around Manfeild?

Dunno mate...but I know they (they being one of the Aoki bros) did min 10's, maybe min 9's during the Pan Pacific series waaay back when!

Having done 16's on a 250 proddie bike there, and having (admittedly only a few times) raced an RS250, I certainly don't see it as being a problem to do 10's there. Christ...if a well tuned GP bike didn't make 2 secs on every one of Manfeilds straights over a 1991 KR1 I'd chew my own balls off.

[Ivan]

no there isnt

Hamish Laing,
He used to make that 250 fly.

Glen Skachill if he was to race one in F3 would win I am positive of it he is a extremly talented rider and learns bikes fast.

Shaun Harris I bet he could make one fly

Even yourself I bet you would be able to make one fly around the circuit

[Ivan]

Manfeild F3 lap record was set in 2009 at a 1:12.0 and the fastest time I ever managed on a 250GP bike was 1:12.8 as a noob so it would be easily capable of doing 1:10s I would have thought on a "NZ spec" 250. Manfeild is not a track that is favorable for 250GP bikes, the difference would be even greater at other tracks. Does anyone know what the lap record was on a 250GP bike around Manfeild?

And be it that the lap record was in summer when lap times are faster and you did that time in winter when the times are slower imagine what you could do in the middle of summer and I have no doubt in the way you rode that season that if you were racing in F3 those races you would have cleaned up

[Maido]

Been round longer than that I raced both of them, U missed my point no one in recent times bruce been gone for more than 10 yrs and simon not much less tell me the last time someone in nz lapped a track faster ona gp250 than current f3 times you will be going along way back

The last time I race a 250 round teretonga I did a 63 flat after not riding it for over a year, john was in the 2's on a regular basis on the TZ (that was in 2005) and I am not that flash! You would easily do a 61 round teretonga on a GP bike now.

[codgyoleracer]

My point is that we dont have any body even close to those guys level that would ride a 250gp bike in f3 any body that good will be racing at a higher level.
No body has been close to the times bruce done and as this class died a slow horrible death in NZ I doubt we will see any one do it soon.
I raced against bruce a few times but i never raced 250gp bikes I did follow him round manfeild a few times him on tz me on rgv so I didnt learn much from that.
Simon was never as good as he would like us all to beleive:shit:

Yip fully agree (even if it is with with a four fingered frick from fielding)
Bruce would blow Simons butt into the weeeeds. (& mine for that matter) - earth to Gimpy , Earth to Gimpy , sell some spuds and prepare for a new investment in two smokes.......................

[Crasherfromwayback]

[QUOTE=codgyoleracer;1129764688Bruce would blow Simons butt into the weeeeds. (& mine for that matter) ..[/QUOTE]

That's odd mate...because when the 3 of use were racing 883's that didn't happen! And you obviously didn't watch Simon racing the late Robert Holden round Wanganui. Robert on a fully wanked 916, Simon on an RS250. I've raced Bruce more than most people here, and Simon a fair bit too. And on the day...Simon is easily a fast as Bruce ever was. Simon was also NZ's youngest ever national champ I believe racing a GP bike?? Bruce sure is fast..but there are others over the years that are/were just as fast.

[codgyoleracer]

That's odd mate...because when the 3 of use were racing 883's that didn't happen! And you obviously didn't watch Simon racing the late Robert Holden round Wanganui. Robert on a fully wanked 916, Simon on an RS250. I've raced Bruce more than most people here, and Simon a fair bit too. And on the day...Simon is easily a fast as Bruce ever was. Simon was also NZ's youngest ever national champ I believe racing a GP bike?? Bruce sure is fast..but there are others over the years that are/were just as fast.

Yes i did see Wangas, (I was still eating candy floss & in daipers of course.........) the streets are very different to purist racing.
I know where my hard earned cash would be......., unless the sherriff turned up of course on YSS suspension & then he would have my money for sure......

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yes i did see Wangas, (I was still eating candy floss & in daipers of course.........) the streets are very different to purist racing.
I know where my hard earned cash would be......., unless the sherriff turned up of course on YSS suspension & then he would have my money for sure......

Yes the streets are VERY different to PURIST racing. Guess that's why Bruce specializes at The Isle of Mann etc, and has never broken into PURIST racing over there eh? By the way...Bruce & Simon never raced the 883's on Street circuits. But Simon sure was as fast as Bruce as often as not. And don't forget...he was also NZ's youngest RR champ on an RS on the PURIST's tracks. I don't think that unless you've raced them both...on similar equipment you'll ever really know!

[codgyoleracer]

Yes the streets are VERY different to PURIST racing. Guess that's why Bruce specializes at The Isle of Mann etc, and has never broken into PURIST racing over there eh? By the way...Bruce & Simon never raced the 883's on Street circuits. But Simon sure was as fast as Bruce as often as not. And don't forget...he was also NZ's youngest RR champ on an RS on the PURIST's tracks. I don't think that unless you've raced them both...on similar equipment you'll ever really know!

True, Bruce never found the spare $300K to do that, then again nor did Simon. Mr Turner is undeniably quick - but in my book ran hot n cold speedwise compared to Ansty.

Bottom line though , both good blokes , and kiwi racers that have nothin left to prove to anyone. Unlike Craig , whom we are all still waitin to c win a nzsbk title............

[Crasherfromwayback]

Mr Turner is undeniably quick - but in my book ran hot n cold speedwise compared to Ansty.

Bottom line though , both good blokes , and kiwi racers that have nothin left to prove to anyone..

Bruce was more consistent yes. Bruce is a good friend of mine, always has been. Simon an aquaintance. And correct, nothing else to prove.

Speaking of titles...when are you gonna shake up some folks in a different class? Bout time you left F3 so some other cunt can win it!!!

[codgyoleracer]

Bruce was more consistent yes. Bruce is a good friend of mine, always has been. Simon an aquaintance. And correct, nothing else to prove.

Speaking of titles...when are you gonna shake up some folks in a different class? Bout time you left F3 so some other cunt can win it!!!

Speaking of titles - you make a strong point

[gixerracer]

C this is my point no way will any of these people go and race a 250 in f3 y the hell would they?
My whole point has been the bikes just arent that easy to go very fast on and any body that would be good enough will be in the 600cc or supers so it isnt a bad idea to get more people out there racing as there must b a swag of old 250s in garages lying around.
Maybe mr crasher can make a come back and show me how easy it is to go fast on one?
Hamish Laing,
He used to make that 250 fly.

Glen Skachill if he was to race one in F3 would win I am positive of it he is a extremly talented rider and learns bikes fast.

Shaun Harris I bet he could make one fly

Even yourself I bet you would be able to make one fly around the circuit

[Mishy]

Here ya go then mate! A brand new in crate 2007 RS250! Having ridden an RS250...I can assure you you really do want one!

Agreed - there's just nothing else quite like them !

[lostinflyz]

C this is my point no way will any of these people go and race a 250 in f3 y the hell would they?
My whole point has been the bikes just arent that easy to go very fast on and any body that would be good enough will be in the 600cc or supers so it isnt a bad idea to get more people out there racing as there must b a swag of old 250s in garages lying around.
Maybe mr crasher can make a come back and show me how easy it is to go fast on one?

ok ive been quiet long enough....

If 250's were in what would be the point in having any other bike. Even if glen/terry/jason stay there asis you would basically have to have a 250 coming through to have a shot at doing ok against anyone else that might have one, or rely on your significant skill advantage (or their lack of). its be like trying to run a 400 against an SV now, it just dont work.

and that being said the few 250's that are rocking about in sheds, most would need a fair bit of coin laid on them to have them ready to face 5 rounds of nationals (plus lead up rounds).

as someone attempting to build a full spec (i hope) f3 bike as we speak, not to win but to compete at least, i'd be pretty gutted to learn something far lighter with more power (and a chassis far superior to anything else) had suddenly been magically added in, that would make my time and money worth a lot less than when i started.

They may not be easy to go fast on, but as some are saying, if you can be within 2-3 seconds of current nationals pace on glen/terry/jasons , you would be about on for setting the f3 lap record as it stand.

[Mishy]

C this is my point no way will any of these people go and race a 250 in f3 y the hell would they?
My whole point has been the bikes just arent that easy to go very fast on and any body that would be good enough will be in the 600cc or supers so it isnt a bad idea to get more people out there racing as there must b a swag of old 250s in garages lying around.
Maybe mr crasher can make a come back and show me how easy it is to go fast on one?

Mostly, all the guys that have experience tuning these things are old and fat (like me) and don't ride much now !
Speaking from experience, these things are awesome when you are really on it, and the set up is right, but it's certainly not that easy to get the best out of them as a rider or tech.

[Billy]

Dunno mate...but I know they (they being one of the Aoki bros) did min 10's, maybe min 9's during the Pan Pacific series waaay back when!
.
Yip,Sadanora Hikita was the man that weekend,Qualified in the High 9s and won the Pan Pacific races at a canter in the very low 10s,Followed by aoki and Stephen Whitehouse also comfortably in the 10s as was Shaun Harris in the F2 support races and a host of riders were in the very low 11s,But remember it was a Pan Pacific championship round and the machinery and riders were of a far higher calibre than we normally see,As pointed out,It takes a very good rider too punt a 250GP machine at any sort of pace and anybody doing around the 1.18 mark at Manfeild on a production based 250 will struggle too get under 15s on a GP machine and SO WHAT if somebody spends $30k on a Gp 250 for F3,H ow does that differ from whats already being spent by the front runners in the class ????

[woodyracer]

dont worry guys, the minute 250gp's start kicking ass in F3 { or now as its called"Sportbike" lol} the amount of bitching will lead to them probualy being put in F2.....

Whats with this tire stuff?, im lost to hell

[slowpoke]

Super pole!!

Hate the idea, it's going to make for a long day, especially as they run out of time now


Yeah agree, waste of time and will be boring for everyone. Most of the tracks have terrible sound systems so you can't hear the commentary properly. Secondly they have no intermediate timing beacons so you have no idea if the rider is doing any good till he crosses the line.

Nah, I don't reckon it's so bad. If they did it right they could even save time. I'm guessing they will only run it for Superbikes? They could just run the normal first practice session(s) and instead of the 20min qualifying session run Superpole. Have the next rider start their lap as the previous bloke is half way round and it could easily be accomplished in 20 min's at even our longest track with the current entry numbers..

With running 3 x shorter races qualifying will be more important and I can see it generating a real buzz.

Even allowing for shit P/A systems and the spectators not necessarily being fully aware of the proceedings I can see a couple of benefits: it might encourage more competitors to have a go (something different) and competitors will have a chance to showcase their sponsors in isolation.

If nothing else it's something a lil' different and worth trying.....but I'd use a club/test day or two to trial/fine tune it first. Better than doing more of the same which just isn't working.

250's in F3? Different bikes on the grid has to be good and much better than the mostly 650 twins out there now. Take Glenn's and Jason's bikes out of the field and it's a pretty boring line up for what is a supposed Formula class. Ozzy's 450's generated a nice bit of interest and 250GP bikes could do the same again. If a decent rider/bike combo springs up and smokes everyone then just fit restrictors. Having a GP250 and being able to use it are 2 different things.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Maybe mr crasher can make a come back and show me how easy it is to go fast on one?

Don't recall saying they were easy to ride? But sure...get someone to supply me the bike and I'm sure I'll be able to get back in the groove.

May've been years since I raced...but that's never stopped me before.

[Kickaha]

dont worry guys, the minute 250gp's start kicking ass in F3 { or now as its called"Sportbike" lol} the amount of bitching will lead to them probualy being put in F2.....

Weren't 125GP removed from F3 because of the bitching about them?

[k14]

Yip,Sadanora Hikita was the man that weekend,Qualified in the High 9s and won the Pan Pacific races at a canter in the very low 10s,Followed by aoki and Stephen Whitehouse also comfortably in the 10s as was Shaun Harris in the F2 support races and a host of riders were in the very low 11s,But remember it was a Pan Pacific championship round and the machinery and riders were of a far higher calibre than we normally see,As pointed out,It takes a very good rider too punt a 250GP machine at any sort of pace and anybody doing around the 1.18 mark at Manfeild on a production based 250 will struggle too get under 15s on a GP machine and SO WHAT if somebody spends $30k on a Gp 250 for F3,H ow does that differ from whats already being spent by the front runners in the class ????
Someone spending 30k on a 250 wouldn't even need to be a good rider to win. It's the fact that someone could spend 10k and run at the front. Anyone with any experience on 125's "should" be able to step up. Looking at this years nationals the 125's were pretty close to the F3 guys on most circuits. Teretonga was the biggest difference in favor of F3 and ruapuna qualifying (all races were wet) the 125 pole time was over a second faster than F3 pole. On this evidence the 125's have a case to be included in F3, allowing the 250's would be opening the class up for major domination.

Weren't 125GP removed from F3 because of the bitching about them?
I think so, the story I was told was that after Steve Ward won both 125 and F3 title in the same year there was some fairly unhappy people in F3 so they got removed.

[Shaun]

Manfeild F3 lap record was set in 2009 at a 1:12.0 and the fastest time I ever managed on a 250GP bike was 1:12.8 as a noob so it would be easily capable of doing 1:10s I would have thought on a "NZ spec" 250. Manfeild is not a track that is favorable for 250GP bikes, the difference would be even greater at other tracks. Does anyone know what the lap record was on a 250GP bike around Manfeild?

You could do 10'z around there easy mate, I did that in Pan pacific series years ago

Bruce Anstey FAST FAST

Simon Turner- enough said already

[jellywrestler]

Never come up against Ant. He started racing 250 proddies when I finished, and I started racing 883's when he'd finished! But did he actually ride a GP bike?
He raced an RS250 and was the only one who was able to get in front of Anstey when he was on fire circa 1993

[prettybillie]

..... have had 4 Clubs express interest. Dates to be decided and number of rounds should be decided within a month. Order of rounds and time of year may not be the usual......

Does anyone know who these clubs are?????

[Crasherfromwayback]

He raced an RS250 and was the only one who was able to get in front of Anstey when he was on fire circa 1993

That's impressive!

[Billy]

Does anyone know who these clubs are?????
Pac club and Wanganui are 2 of them and theres more than 4 at this stage

[Billy]

Someone spending 30k on a 250 wouldn't even need to be a good rider to win. It's the fact that someone could spend 10k and run at the front. Anyone with any experience on 125's "should" be able to step up. Looking at this years nationals the 125's were pretty close to the F3 guys on most circuits. Teretonga was the biggest difference in favor of F3 and ruapuna qualifying (all races were wet) the 125 pole time was over a second faster than F3 pole. On this evidence the 125's have a case to be included in F3, allowing the 250's would be opening the class up for major domination.

I think so, the story I was told was that after Steve Ward won both 125 and F3 title in the same year there was some fairly unhappy people in F3 so they got removed.
Yeah but werent a couple of those 125s a bit faster than the average and I fully believe if the Gimp gets his act together and sorts that Tigcraft/Aprilia properly,It also will run away with the class.So whats the diff??

[Kiwi Graham]

Does anyone know who these clubs are?????

AMCC will be one

[k14]

Yeah but werent a couple of those 125s a bit faster than the average and I fully believe if the Gimp gets his act together and sorts that Tigcraft/Aprilia properly,It also will run away with the class.So whats the diff??
The difference is that was built to the rules that have been long standing for however many years they have been in for. I can see your point and somewhat agree with you. I just feel a little agrieved that I have built a decent and competitive bike to the old rules and now the goal posts may be moved somewhat. Anyone in my position would most likely have the same feelings. I have been giving moving up to 600's a bit of a thought lately and this may just make the decision easier.

[gixerracer]

You could destroy f3 on a 450 by making it lighter with good wheels etc and just go nuts on the motor as there aint to many rules that stop you the engines pretty mild compared to what you can do, only limited by money really just go hard on one they could be so fast
The difference is that was built to the rules that have been long standing for however many years they have been in for. I can see your point and somewhat agree with you. I just feel a little agrieved that I have built a decent and competitive bike to the old rules and now the goal posts may be moved somewhat. Anyone in my position would most likely have the same feelings. I have been giving moving up to 600's a bit of a thought lately and this may just make the decision easier.

[k14]

You could destroy f3 on a 450 by making it lighter with good wheels etc and just go nuts on the motor as there aint to many rules that stop you the engines pretty mild compared to what you can do, only limited by money really just go hard on one they could be so fast
Yeah sure would love to, but as you alluded to only limited by money. Having spent the best part of $25k already where do you draw the line. I love the sport but there is a point where it just becomes rediculous and I may have already passed that!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Road racing can be a bottomless pit!

[gimpy]

FOR SALE: Tigcraft aprillia ,only used on weekends $50k or swap for late model 250GP bike

[cowpoos]

lol not if i tune it

You still wouldn't be fast on it...not with your mass...Your winning my poll at the moment...and its not even about you!! http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/123926-Are-you-sick-of-hearing-about-soccer?p=1129763561#post1129763561

[GSVR]

FOR SALE: Tigcraft aprillia ,only used on weekends $50k or swap for late model 250GP bike
Your my pick to take the F3 title this year. Weather you ride the tigcraft or decide to save time and money and get a GP bike.
For 50k you should be able to have a backup bike!

[Racey Rider]

I cant remember the last time someone on a 250 even went close to going fast no one knows how to tune or ride them properly I dont thinkthe current f3 front runner have mcuh to worrie about at this stage

Didn't that Craig Shirriffs guy beat all the 600's in supersport at Manfield on 26th June 2004 on a GP250?

[woodyracer]

Didn't that Craig Shirriffs guy beat all the 600's in supersport at Manfield on 26th June 2004 on a GP250?

but hes a "god like" rider soo you cant use hi mas an example :shifty:

[gixerracer]

That is simple! When you have won the Nats and then you move up a class and spend even more or you go play tidly winks
Yeah sure would love to, but as you alluded to only limited by money. Having spent the best part of $25k already where do you draw the line. I love the sport but there is a point where it just becomes rediculous and I may have already passed that!

[gixerracer]

But God is dead and also female????????????????
but hes a "god like" rider soo you cant use hi mas an example :shifty:

[gixerracer]

Haha still didnt go very fast and I ended up with 12 days in hospital 10 weeks of work and was less than 24hours away from getting my leg amputated fuckn hate 2strokes lol
Didn't that Craig Shirriffs guy beat all the 600's in supersport at Manfield on 26th June 2004 on a GP250?

[gixerracer]

You still wouldn't be fast on it...not with your mass...Your winning my poll at the moment...and its not even about you!! http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/123926-Are-you-sick-of-hearing-about-soccer?p=1129763561#post1129763561

lololololololololololololololololololololololololo . Got 2 be the 1st poll i ever won

[Kevin G]

Hi all.
Remember it is just a proposal and it is opened to all parties to have a say once posted on the MNZ web site as per the rule change process. It is not a done deal. Lots of good points have been raised, make sure you compile your views and make a submission when called for.

Good discussion keep it up.

Kevin Goddard
Board Member MNZ

[slowpoke]

So just hand the GP 250 riders a couple of $10 30mm (or whatever) restrictors and say "Fit em and come on in!". Easy. We should be figuring out ways to include bikes and vary the grid in our only Formula class, not narrow it down.

So what about the shorter 3 race propoasl and qualifying via Superpole? If I was a spectator who hadn't been along for a few years it would certainly have me think about going along again. I'd be rapt to see the Cole/Smith/Sketchy and Stroud/Bugden/Shirriffs type battles 3 times instead of just 2.

Can't wait to see the new race series schedule. Well done to MNZ for making some changes, the interest is building already. Oh yeah, can you please let me know who to send a copy of my work roster to so you can schedule everything accordingly.......it's all about me dontcha know!

[Kevin G]

What and where would such restrictors be placed...I am starting regret my wording already.....

[Shaun]

What and where would such restrictors be placed...I am starting regret my wording already.....


This IS NOT a good idea Kevin!!!!

These are 2 strokes, so messing with restrictors, will probally cause a LOT of MECHANICAL failures, as there are NOT MANY cleaver 2 stroke tuners left out there mate

[k14]

Yeah agree, GP bikes are very very highly tuned machines and interferring with anything in the inlet or exhaust system is steering at disaster. As many of us already can attest, a 2 stroke siezure can be very painful!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yeah agree, GP bikes are very very highly tuned machines and interferring with anything in the inlet or exhaust system is steering at disaster. As many of us already can attest, a 2 stroke siezure can be very painful!

No worse than a dirty old four stroke putting a leg out of bed.

[Kevin G]

I am very aware of the pitfalls but thought I should ask in case I am dumber than I thought! I assumed Mr. Slowpoke might know something about it to make such a comment.
There are still a few players around in the two stroke scene...now where did I park that NXA.

[Ivan]

Im just thinking out loud here and probably is a dumb idea but if enough 250 guys turn up why not run a sperate championship for them inside that one race? like pro twin allready is, So you would have sportsbike pro twin and 250gp

That way mr Joe Bloggs on his cbr400 doesnt get put off racing by mr Joseph Bloggys out there on his 2002 Honda RS125 GP bike and only beating him by straight line speed etc

Just an idea and probably a stupid one at that but worth putting my voice out here for you guys to consider

[steveyb]

Im just thinking out loud here and probably is a dumb idea but if enough 250 guys turn up why not run a sperate championship for them inside that one race? like pro twin allready is, So you would have sportsbike pro twin and 250gp

That way mr Joe Bloggs on his cbr400 doesnt get put off racing by mr Joseph Bloggys out there on his 2002 Honda RS125 GP bike and only beating him by straight line speed etc

Just an idea and probably a stupid one at that but worth putting my voice out here for you guys to consider

It's a great idea in principle Ivan, but the unfortunate side was that until a couple of years ago we had a 250GP national championship, but riders simply stopped turning up.
In 2009 we had 2 GP bikes and one 250 proddie bike enter the 250GP Grand Prix. This year one 250Proddie bike entered so it was not run.
I think that is the reality of that situation really.
There is some traction being gained by a new GP riders group, so you never know, but I do not see it soon at NZSBK.
But, there is precedent, in the UK.
They canned their 250GP championship a few years back, but through lobbying and support it has been ressurected and seems to be doing OK now.
The 250 championship seems to be going well in the USA through USGPRU.
My feeling is that there are not enough modern 250s in NZ at the moment to make the championship class viable again, but with a mixture of 350s, 250s, 250 Proddies and 125's there could be scope for GP bike events or mixed class races at other events, such as Taupo Roadrace Spectacular and Tri-Series.

But what I like most is the passion with which so many people are speaking about this proposal.
Clearly many of them are not GP bike riders, but it means that people are passionate about these bikes even if they do not ride them themselves.

At the risk of creating more ire and heated discussion, I have had a bit of a look through Mylaps as much as I could to compare 250GP laptimes with current F3 laptimes.
We should bare in mind that what Fatty Shirrifs says is right, very few top NZ riders will divert their attentions from 600 or SBK to race 250s in F3/Sportbike.
So, the riders that will be on 250s in general terms, are those who are a bit older of spirit, larger of stomach (like Craig), and not the best young riders, although I think they should, but that is just my opinion. And the riders we have seen on 250GPs over the last 5 years or so of the championship were those types of riders. Good or even very good, but older and mixed in with enthusiasts and not so good riders. This is unlikely to change, in my opinion, except if some of the current 125GP riders progress onto 250GP rather than 600.
Anyway, the current F3 laptimes at NZSBK are virtually the same as 250GP laptimes of the past 5-7 years.
People will say, ah but so and so went faster than that, those riders were shit etc etc.
But the reality is that the riders that have ridden 250s over the past 5-7 years are the types of riders that will ride them in the future.
Hence, I feel that if 250GP bikes are included in Sportbike, I think that they will be very similar in terms of performance and that it will make the class just that much more interesting.
But as I have said previously, I do think that at least to start with, there should be age limits on the bikes with Honda up to 2000 (i.e up to NX5 model as very little that is useful can be put from the later NXA onto the NX5), and Yamaha up to 1999 5KE1 (or is it 4TW5??) model.
It is probably pretty clear that new model Hondas and especially Yamahas would be somewhat better than even the best current F3 bikes.

[Kevin G]

All it needs for a national class is six, I know Nigel has 4 already, I know of 1 other coming soon so we only need 1 more and you have a class. Will require some lobbying to get it turned back on but if the numbers are there it can happen.

[RDjase]

, but with a mixture of 350s, 250s, 250 Proddies and 125's there could be scope for GP bike events or mixed class races at other events, such as Taupo Roadrace Spectacular and Tri-Series.



350's , Sounds good to me,

Will bring out all the old TZ's, RZ's and LC's that arnt elegible for F3 now

[ttelp15]

350's , Sounds good to me,

Will bring out all the old TZ's, RZ's and LC's that arnt elegible for F3 now

Speaking of which, I know of a 1980 TZ 350 for sale. Got some history. Ex Bruce Woodley. Anyone keen? Let me know

[Ivan]

yip which is why I am saying run a class for them inside f3 then if they get the required numbers its a national class but they dont have sperate track time for 6 bikes hurtling around track at nats and it doesnt "put off" current f3 riders who dont have all the gizzmo wizz bang bikes

[lostinflyz]

yip which is why I am saying run a class for them inside f3 then if they get the required numbers its a national class but they dont have sperate track time for 6 bikes hurtling around track at nats and it doesnt "put off" current f3 riders who dont have all the gizzmo wizz bang bikes

or you could run 250gp inside 125's, as most are suggesting anyone running one would be on about their times??? (I think this is a stupid idea.........)

The trouble with multi class races is there is often no real reason to race the guy in front if their in another class, especially if crashing could hurt your position.

on the putting off side, there is a large difference between nats and club racing rules here that is an inherent problem with f3. At club level the rules don't make sense as most are not on "whizz bang bikes", with the class really being a pretty stock protwin/400 competition, while at nats the bike set is completely different. If you buy a bike to nats rules and go club racing your going to have an inherent advantage over a significant majority of the field. Down south competitive club f3 times for the podium were anywhere from 5-8 seconds off nationals pace at least. Usually theres one or maybe two under that then a gap to the 400/250 club racer brigade.

[Billy]

Speaking of which, I know of a 1980 TZ 350 for sale. Got some history. Ex Bruce Woodley. Anyone keen? Let me know
Thats my old TZ,One of the few left using the genuine Yamaha frame,One very fast bike,Was clocked at 166MPH at the Featherston Flying quarter back in 1985,Has Mike still got it and what does he want for it???

[Ivan]

Thats my old TZ,One of the few left using the genuine Yamaha frame,One very fast bike,Was clocked at 166MPH at the Featherston Flying quarter back in 1985,Has Mike still got it and what does he want for it???

Holy shit the Featherston Flying quarter were aboutsin Featherston was that I am from the town of course was it the old East West Access?

[Ivan]

even inside 125's I did not think of that,

But the thing is I am all for them getting back out there and possibly getting there own class on its own but you would want the class to Viable before dedicating track time to them,

The average spectator doesnt want to turn up to Nationals to watch 6 bikes racing even tho it could be good racing 6 bikes does not seem enough to have here own dedicated track time but if the numbers were high enough then sure why not

I am not against the 250 come back I would prefer to see 250gp tho as there own class and not a part of f3

[Kiwi Graham]

Well I think the 600 & 1000 superstock class is going to take off next season.
I like the Aussie rules = sensible cost effective performance mods allowed. Average Joe really can be competitive for very little money.
I suppose you could go down the whole blue print the motor and spend heaps if you were keen route. Tony showed us what you can do with a pretty standard R1 eh!

[Clivoris]

Shit hot discussion going on here. I thought the AGM, and the road race commision in particular, was very positive with people looking to make things work.

[slowpoke]

[QUOTE=Kevin G;1129766123]What and where would such restrictors be placed...I am starting regret my wording already.....


This IS NOT a good idea Kevin!!!!

These are 2 strokes, so messing with restrictors, will probally cause a LOT of MECHANICAL failures, as there are NOT MANY cleaver 2 stroke tuners left out there mate

The MX dudes seem to be able to handle it alright, although the application is somewhat different. From a 2 stroke tuning website:

In general a small diameter carburetor will have high velocity and a good flow characteristic for a low to mid rpm power band. A large diameter carburetor works better for high rpm power bands. For 125 cc engines a 34mm carburetor works well for supercross and enduro and a 36 or 38 mm carburetor works best for fast mx tracks. For 250 cc engines a 36 mm carburetor works best for low to mid power bands and a 39.5 mm carburetor works best for top end power bands. Recently there has been a trend in the use of air-foils and rifle-boring for carbs. These innovations are designed to improve air flow at low throttle openings. Some companies sell carb inserts, to change the diameter of a carb. Typically a set of inserts is sold with a service of over boring the carb. For example; a carb for a 250cc bike (38mm) will be bored to 39.5mm and two inserts will be supplied. The carb can then be restricted to a diameter of 36 or 38mm.

[Billy]

Surely the safest and simplest way would be too give them a weight restriction,Somewhere around 130kgs would even the playing feild up.

[Shaun]

[QUOTE=slowpoke;1129765919]




The MX dudes seem to be able to handle it alright, although the application is somewhat different. From a 2 stroke tuning website:

In general a small diameter carburetor will have high velocity and a good flow characteristic for a low to mid rpm power band. A large diameter carburetor works better for high rpm power bands. For 125 cc engines a 34mm carburetor works well for supercross and enduro and a 36 or 38 mm carburetor works best for fast mx tracks. For 250 cc engines a 36 mm carburetor works best for low to mid power bands and a 39.5 mm carburetor works best for top end power bands. Recently there has been a trend in the use of air-foils and rifle-boring for carbs. These innovations are designed to improve air flow at low throttle openings. Some companies sell carb inserts, to change the diameter of a carb. Typically a set of inserts is sold with a service of over boring the carb. For example; a carb for a 250cc bike (38mm) will be bored to 39.5mm and two inserts will be supplied. The carb can then be restricted to a diameter of 36 or 38mm.

So where is the mention of of OLDER 2 STROKE road bikes in this?

[slowpoke]

Surely the safest and simplest way would be too give them a weight restriction,Somewhere around 130kgs would even the playing feild up.

130kgs? Blardy hell Billy, stop typin' and get down the chip shop fella! Oh.......you mean the bikes dontcha.....?

Yep, another option I was thinkin' 'bout too. Be good to see 'em out there, so I genuinely hope they come up with some way of making it happen.

[suzuki21]

[QUOTE=slowpoke;1129768041]

So where is the mention of of OLDER 2 STROKE road bikes in this?

And new expansion chambers to suit ya reckon?

[suzuki21]

Why do people get so passionate about "needing" a National level class for every bike ever made? Most of the old 250 2-smokes should be damn near post classics by now, why dont we just call the Pukekohe classics meeting the nationals and be done with it? The classes need to move with the times or we would still have FZ750's in superbike.
People wanting a 250 class at national level? Yeh that worked good a few years ago didnt it, died a natural death so why is now different? The 250 class is dying world wide so why flog a dead horse? Speaking of flogging a horse, even tubby Chris Osbourne rode his lard arse to a win at Manfield on a 250.
We need classes that will have near full grids at every round, not just some guys that will say "we are doing the nationals", then turn up to one meeting.

[ttelp15]

Thats my old TZ,One of the few left using the genuine Yamaha frame,One very fast bike,Was clocked at 166MPH at the Featherston Flying quarter back in 1985,Has Mike still got it and what does he want for it???

Yeah Mike still has it, but he has no use for it. Last time he rode it was Cemetery Circuit 50th. Blew a head gasket. Hasn't been run since. Wants it gone to a good home - somewhere where it will get used, and not just sit in a shed (like hes done lately with it). Open to serious offers.

[Mishy]

I like the Aussie rules = sensible cost effective performance mods allowed. Average Joe really can be competitive for very little money.

To be quite honest, I fear that the exact opposite will be true in the 600's.
The whole area of modified stock has a REAL chance of making it a lot more dificult for most riaders to get the same performance without spending a lot of money.
At the moment, we can all fit a TTX36 for stuff all, and get pretty much any spring we want at a meeting any tme we want it - just go see Robert.
That makes it a pretty level playing field in that respect as far as cost goes.
Modifying stock means that the clever guys with time and money will be most likely to find something creative that works better, and also be able to buy the stack of springs etc so that they have all bases covered.
I can EASILY see the gap widening - not closing, and I can see it becoming somewhat more difficult for at least half of the field to avoid spending entire weekends wrecking tyres - which is where the most money is wasted with no residual value in 600 racing.

[Robert Taylor]

To be quite honest, I fear that the exact opposite will be true in the 600's.
The whole area of modified stock has a REAL chance of making it a lot more dificult for most riaders to get the same performance without spending a lot of money.
At the moment, we can all fit a TTX36 for stuff all, and get pretty much any spring we want at a meeting any tme we want it - just go see Robert.
That makes it a pretty level playing field in that respect as far as cost goes.
Modifying stock means that the clever guys with time and money will be most likely to find something creative that works better, and also be able to buy the stack of springs etc so that they have all bases covered.
I can EASILY see the gap widening - not closing, and I can see it becoming somewhat more difficult for at least half of the field to avoid spending entire weekends wrecking tyres - which is where the most money is wasted with no residual value in 600 racing.

I had one customer yesterday who said he was going to purchase a spare rear shock as he knows that revalve times are much greater than with racing specific shocks that are made in such a way that they can be revalved very very quickly. We have on occassion managed it in ten minutes with a TTX, and the front NIX system is now extremely user friendly.
Plus a whole new can of worms is going to be opened up with spring options. Not all brands and models are consistent meaning that there is a whole plethora of different spring dimensions and adapter plates required, thats before we even look at spring rates. Its just as bad with fork springs, if not moreso.
In our trailer we have an inventory of nigh on 30k worth of springs to look after our road race customers. The real positive is that most of the shocks out there are TTX meaning we only have to carry 2 series of springs for those. With fork springs we have made it as easy as possible for ourselves and therefore the end users, we carry only 4744 series Ohlins superbike springs that are used in all the cartridges and in also all of our SV650 Pro Twins installations.
Perhaps we have made it too easy for people and should be charging exchange fees every time where there is a legitimate improvement, as in theory much of this is dead money where riders should be purchasing their own spring options ( some in fairness choose to )
But one thing I will say is we are definitely not repeating that whole inventory again in respect to spring options for oem, people are going to have to purchase and carry their own options, TOTALLY essential for tyre ripping tracks such as Teretonga and HD.
And then theres revalve times, its wonderfully short with the new NIX fork system and TTX and you almost talk yourself into it as its not a big deal. Its a LOT longer to do oem stuff, who pays? Theres only 2 suspension techs at the main meetings and a third guy when he is disposed to do so. We are all stretched now and it doesnt matter how well prepared everyone is in pre season testing and irrespective of who does the work. There will be occassional issues at different tracks that will require respringing and also revalving.

Cheaper? Bollocks.

User friendly, definitely not. You wont be able to just cruise into pitlane within a short practice session and have your mechanic twist that hydraulic preloader to a new setting within 10 seconds or so. Has anyone tried to adjust rear spring preload quickly with those horrible manual lockrings on oem shocks, usually a little recessed inside the well of the swingarm? And there will also be people that could miss out on a revalve between practice sessions because they would now take so long to do. The big money teams who put up most of the money to have suspension tuners present always get first call, but with the user friendly nature of race spec aftermarket suspension we most usually have time to look after anyone else that may ask, AND THATS IMPORTANT!!!! ( so is being motivated )

Yes the gap would widen as the major distributor backed teams ( if they compete in Superstock 600 ) WILL purchase extra suspesion units to be able to ''leapfrog'' setting changes more readily

I can see the mentality of trying to keep the rules as consistent as possible with the dingos over the ditch but how many actually bring their own bikes here to race and what numbers are travelling from NZ?

There are as above lots of ''inconvenient'' practical realities and headaches that a lot of people just dont realise because as I have intimated in many ways we have actually made it too easy in terms of suspension support infrastructure. Any of those who have heard many horror stories from overseas will understand where I am coming from.