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View Full Version : Calling those who are in the know: new computer time!



Kiwi Graham
26th May 2010, 14:04
Yep our home PC is creaking and groaning and it will soon be time to retire it off.

Which do I get next?

The children are not far off starting school and I hear they are using Apple Macs more and more now so am thinking I should go down that route.

Apple computers are about 2k to buy which isnt too bad but are they that much better? Ive asked around at work but seem to find (in those that give a shit) two ends of the spectrum in love them or hate them.

Anyone out there use both and can give me the real pro's and con's of each please.

Cheers

KG

firefighter
26th May 2010, 14:12
Apples are good......they are fast etc.

BUT. They are pieces of shit when you want to operate any programs with it. Yes most new programs are compatible with mac, but to give you an idea of how much of a fucken pain they are, a girl on my study group had to buy a notebook just to use an add on in excel called PHstat, as the mac just would'nt let it work, and she's had heeeeeaps of compatibility issues. A real pain in the fucken ass really. Yep you can run and additional program which is supposed to work like windows on your mac, but it does'nt work properly so often (like everything that is'nt purpose built) it was'nt worth the hassle and she just went and got the notebook.

For the money you pay for a basic mac, you can get a top of the line pc. Make life easier on yourself and get what will work with everything.

To top it off, all my mates who work in I.T hate macs.......

Tank
26th May 2010, 14:12
Anyone out there use both and can give me the real pro's and con's of each please.

First thing is to work out what you need it to do - then you can select the best tool for the job.

Apple vs PC - is just a argument thats going to end in tears.

Tank
26th May 2010, 14:14
Apples are good......but they are pieces of shit when you want to operate any other programs with it. Yes most new ones are compatible with mac, but to give you an idea of how much of a fucken pain they are, a girl on my study group had to buy a notebook just to use an add on in excel called PHstat, as the mac just would'nt let it work, and she's had heeeeeaps of compatibility issues. A real pain in the fucken ass really. Yep you can run and additional program which is supposed to work like windows on your mac, but it does'nt work properly so often (like everything that is'nt purpose built)

For the money you pay for a basic mac, you can get a top of the line pc. Make life easier on yourself and get what will work with everything.

All my mates who work in I.T hate macs.......



And people like the above seem to forget that a MAC is just a PC with a different operating system - heck - you can run Windows on a mac (dual boot) without issue - and then you can use all the PC software as well.

As for all IT people hating macs - pffft - we have dozens of them here and no complaints.

Bald Eagle
26th May 2010, 14:14
Apples are good......but they are pieces of shit when you want to operate any other programs with it. Yes most new ones are compatible with mac, but to give you an idea of how much of a fucken pain they are, a girl on my study group had to buy a notebook just to use an add on in excel called PHstat, as the mac just would'nt let it work, and she's had heeeeeaps of compatibility issues. A real pain in the fucken ass really. Yep you can run and additional program which is supposed to work like windows on your mac, but it does'nt work properly so often (like everything that is'nt purpose built)

For the money you pay for a basic mac, you can get a top of the line pc. Make life easier on yourself and get what will work with everything.

All my mates who work in I.T hate macs.......

Usual old stuff. I work in I.T supporting Novel network and windows and use a mac as my personal weapon of choice. My current one does everything I need and now they have intel processors if your desperate for the Gates virus ware you can always dual boot and run Windows when it's unavoidable.

firefighter
26th May 2010, 14:20
And people like the above seem to forget that a MAC is just a PC with a different operating system - heck - you can run Windows on a mac (dual boot) without issue - and then you can use all the PC software as well

You can, just do'nt expect half the programs to work. I seen it first hand, with most of the software put out by the publishers of textbooks. For some reason it wo'nt work with the dual boot thing.

I'd rather spend half the money and get a higher spec'd system, and not have to fuck around when I want to use add-ons etc.

I'm not going to get into debate on this with you guys though as with you both personally working in I.T and obviously know a shiteload more than I do! My opinion is just from user experience.

Tank
26th May 2010, 14:22
You can, just do'nt expect half the programs to work. I seen it first hand..

Im sorry - that is just nonsense.

SMOKEU
26th May 2010, 14:27
Macs are gay, there are some very good Linux OS out there on the other hand.

Headbanger
26th May 2010, 14:31
Apple VS PC.

Your paying a premium for the Apple, so you really want to be positive your keen on the OS.Forget dual booting, If you want to do that then buy a PC. Paying the Apple premium and then running Windows on it is madness.

You could alays consult your kids as well, if they want to use it as a gaming platform then get a PC.

Playtech has some nice systems, You can get a more powerful PC built with quality components for about half the price of an Apple.

http://www.playtech.co.nz/


http://www.playtech.co.nz/afawcs0139235/CATID=54/ID=13921/SID=642089740/productdetails.html

firefighter
26th May 2010, 14:33
Im sorry - that is just nonsense.

Nope. http://www.prenhall.com/phstat/

It refused to work. (We had a download from the Uni website via Stream which is where we get all our info from).

I have no reason to just make that up.

Headbanger
26th May 2010, 14:37
Ah, I see your kids aren't yet school age,in which case....

I got something similar to this for my inlaws via playtech.

http://www.playtech.co.nz/afawcs0139235/CATID=139/ID=6760/SID=1051025654/productdetails.html

Paired it with a 22" LCD and they were more then happy, and I haven't yet been called back to sort anything on it and its been months.

High Lord
26th May 2010, 14:39
you can get cheap-ish lappys from Dic smith now...$1200.... that unless yr CAD/making movies etc should do everything you need , and you can stash it away when you suddenly find yr kids just wanna play spacies and google swear words...

Ronin
26th May 2010, 14:39
Nope. http://www.prenhall.com/phstat/

It refused to work. (We had a download from the Uni website via Stream which is where we get all our info from).

I have no reason to just make that up.

Can you not just do stats the way that ACC do and make them up? Then it wouldn't matter what OS you are using.

imdying
26th May 2010, 14:40
The children are not far off starting school and I hear they are using Apple Macs more and more now so am thinking I should go down that route.Apple have been hard out into schools since even when I was there... guess what... in the workplace, it's all still PCs. You'd be better off to get a PC so they have some exposure to something that might actually be useful to them.

imdying
26th May 2010, 14:43
It refused to work.I believe you... my Mac, useless turd that it is... download the new version of iTunes... message box "Incorrect version", and that was it. Incorrect version of what you might ask... that's a good question. It's always like that, minimal error messages so not to freak out mom and pop, but no useful information that might actually help someone who could deal with it. Fab. And you get to pay a premium for that privledge. I love my Mac, can ya tell?

bogan
26th May 2010, 14:43
My Summary

Macs:
look cool
fashionable
can do whatever a PC does (if you know how to dual boot)
macOS is sposed to be quite good

PCs:
cost bout 25% less than an equivalently spec'd mac
heaps of choice so you can get one you think looks cool anyway
never found a program i couldn't run on them
win7 is a pretty sweet OS

firefighter
26th May 2010, 14:47
Can you not just do stats the way that ACC do and make them up? Then it wouldn't matter what OS you are using.

Hahaha, fuck I wish mate! I fucken hate stats. Maths was never a strong point. I can understand the basics of most every area, but when you go in depth the old "shotgun in mouth toe on trigger" comes to mind.....

Scuba_Steve
26th May 2010, 15:20
Mac & OS X are much nicer to use than Windows. I was using windows since Win 3.11 to WinXP/2000 (& have used Win7), But I switched to Mac OS X in 2003 I would NEVER go back to windows now.
As for the price thing, you can get cheaper windows machines but then you can get a cheap Chinese bike too... Would you???. If you look at equivalent spec with equivalent design & quality (your looking at higher end HP, Toshiba, Sony now) the prices are very similar.
Apple put alot of effort into every aspect of their product, Quality, Functionality, Aesthetics, Usability etc. As they say its the small things that count & you'll find Macs know this. Yes you are paying for a high end machine but thats what it is, a bloody good PC & OS second to none as far as a home computer goes.

firefighter
26th May 2010, 15:27
but then you can get a cheap Chinese bike too... Would you???.

That's not even nearly a relevant comparison.

Try japanese or european.

You could buy a cheap Jappa, but would you? Yep.

spajohn
26th May 2010, 15:43
Anyone out there use both and can give me the real pro's and con's of each please.

KG - I'm an IT Pro of approx 15 years ... we run Windows in the office, and I use a Mac at home. Why did I switch? Because I wanted a computer that works at home, so I don't have to spend time fixing it etc. As for the comments on IT guys hating them, I know more and more who are switching over to Mac. But that may just be for the geeky fun of trying something new.

What Mac are known for is that they are easy to use....as a friend using mine put it - "Wow, it's like a computer made for humans to use." Anyone who isn't particularly computer literate I point in their direction, and as I said for myself, it means they just work without me having to do too much. They have excellent phone support, and a really good self help online. There will of course be that initial pain of getting used to it, but I think it is well worth it.

Yes, there are less programs about that support Mac, but for most uses it makes little difference as there will be an alternative, and if you run into a major deal breaker you can go and buy a copy of Windows and make the machine dual boot to either operating system. There is a great tool included to help you do this which makes it pretty simple for non-tech folk. If you are just using it to browse the web and email etc everything you need is included, and there is good bundled software for a lot of other things, like photo's etc. The included Time Machine is miles ahead of the backup solution on a Windows machine, and something overlooked by most people. Are they faster? Possibly not at the lower end, however the quick startup / resume from sleep is great.

The biggest issue you that you may have is sharing Microsoft Office files, like Word or Excel. You can buy Office for Mac which solves that easily enough. I chose to buy Apples iWork, which can read those Office files, but it means you need to Export, rather than Save, to send them to your friends still living in the Windows world. At the time it was a lot more expensive to buy Office than iWork, but I see they are a lot closer now.

Mac's are expensive, no two ways about it, but since going Mac, I have happily paid more for an Apple wireless network device...because it just works! Can't wait to upgrade my Fiancee's PC to a Mac and have one less PC in my life that is a drain on my time.

If you have any questions please feel free to PM me.

Added: On the Windows side the new Operating system "7" is a very welcome upgrade. It was Vista that pushed me over the edge to change to Mac. I still think Mac is designed more with the end users experience in mind, and they do a better job of it.

bogan
26th May 2010, 16:08
Mac & OS X are much nicer to use than Windows. I was using windows since Win 3.11 to WinXP/2000 (& have used Win7), But I switched to Mac OS X in 2003 I would NEVER go back to windows now.
As for the price thing, you can get cheaper windows machines but then you can get a cheap Chinese bike too... Would you???. If you look at equivalent spec with equivalent design & quality (your looking at higher end HP, Toshiba, Sony now) the prices are very similar.
Apple put alot of effort into every aspect of their product, Quality, Functionality, Aesthetics, Usability etc. As they say its the small things that count & you'll find Macs know this. Yes you are paying for a high end machine but thats what it is, a bloody good PC & OS second to none as far as a home computer goes.

bollocks, asus (and i'm geussing many others) make products at least as good quality and design wise for significantly less price. And apple put a lot of effort into their marketing campaign, nuff said.

<img src="http://trollcats.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/your_operating_system_sucks_trollcat.jpg" />

anyhu, enough of the OS holy war.

Kiwi Graham, kids are pretty quick to pick up whatever computer system they use, maybe mac at school and a PC at home would make them more computer savvy? and keeping with the current type of system is probably a lot easier on the older generation.

Tank
26th May 2010, 16:19
You can, just do'nt expect half the programs to work. I seen it first hand, with most of the software put out by the publishers of textbooks. For some reason it wo'nt work with the dual boot thing.

I'm not going to get into debate on this with you guys though as with you both personally working in I.T and obviously know a shiteload more than I do! My opinion is just from user experience.

Re the 1/2 programs to work thing - if you are running windows on the mac - its just the same as any other PC - so that isnt a issue with it being made my apple. As for it not dual booting - meh - Id suggest you get better IT people.


Apple VS PC.

Your paying a premium for the Apple, so you really want to be positive your keen on the OS.Forget dual booting, If you want to do that then buy a PC. Paying the Apple premium and then running Windows on it is madness.


No its not because the OP was thinking of the mac OS for his kids as its the same as schools - a apple can dual boot and run mac OS and windows - a windows PC cannot** dual boot into mac OS - so its hardly madness - it simply gives the OP access to both options.

** Yeah - I know you can with hacked installed etc - but lets keep this non technical 'ish

You could alays consult your kids as well, if they want to use it as a gaming platform then get a PC.


Playtech has some nice systems, You can get a more powerful PC built with quality components for about half the price of an Apple.

http://www.playtech.co.nz/


http://www.playtech.co.nz/afawcs0139235/CATID=54/ID=13921/SID=642089740/productdetails.html

Indeed - Playtech are really nice blokes and you can get a lot of computer for little $. AND - if something goes wrong - they do stand behind it.


Nope. http://www.prenhall.com/phstat/

It refused to work. (We had a download from the Uni website via Stream which is where we get all our info from).

I have no reason to just make that up.

Yeah = but your comment was about 1/2 of all software - a far cry from what you were inferring (incorrectly)




anyhu, enough of the OS holy war.

Kiwi Graham, kids are pretty quick to pick up whatever computer system they use, maybe mac at school and a PC at home would make them more computer savvy? and keeping with the current type of system is probably a lot easier on the older generation.

- good post. and probably the best solution also

Ronin
26th May 2010, 16:24
bollocks, asus (and i'm geussing many others) make products at least as good quality and design wise for significantly less price. And apple put a lot of effort into their marketing campaign, nuff said.


anyhu, enough of the OS holy war.

Kiwi Graham, kids are pretty quick to pick up whatever computer system they use, maybe mac at school and a PC at home would make them more computer savvy? and keeping with the current type of system is probably a lot easier on the older generation.

Good point. I wandered past my 11 year old the other day using my mint linux with chrome and open office. Never showed him how to he has always used the windows boot before.

avgas
26th May 2010, 16:41
you can get a cheap Chinese bike too... Would you???
Said the FXR150 owner.........replaced any Chinese/Malaysian bolts lately.......

avgas
26th May 2010, 16:46
Buy a mac.
For no other reason other than "you will use it".
You will get pissed off with what it can't do, but "you will use it everyday".
Macs are like lego - you never out grow them, but you never achieved much with them either.

Tank
26th May 2010, 16:56
Macs are like lego - you never out grow them, but you never achieved much with them either.

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x305/tbjundun/FP/LegoPorn.jpg

Tank
26th May 2010, 16:58
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_LjkTcIrZHko/SgoYDQOXizI/AAAAAAAAAlc/IQxAYDwMdlU/s400/legoMoAisha+(1).jpg

Sorry - just saw this and had to share....

Sam I Am
26th May 2010, 17:03
Mac for me ... they seem to last the distance I work every day on a mac and have had this laptop for 4 1/2 years i am only just thinking of upgrading it for a little more speed..
my last mac laptop that is 7y's old is still running my itunes every day in the corner and the kids use it for youtube.. I think they come with most programs you will need and most others are not that expensive untill you get into "pro" programs but they expensive no matter mac or PC...

ps there easy to use..

Scuba_Steve
26th May 2010, 17:09
Said the FXR150 owner.........replaced any Chinese/Malaysian bolts lately.......

Hey they were Taiwanese thank you very much!... or was that the hooker? I forget


Macs are like lego - you never out grow them, but you never achieved much with them either.

I achieve more with my Macs than I ever did with my Windows machines & enjoy using them ALOT more too... Shit just works! & works well!

NZsarge
26th May 2010, 17:18
Meh, get a Mac, I like em...

Gremlin
26th May 2010, 17:52
mac is easy to use because it hides all the advanced stuff, which usually stops you really wrecking it. Personally, I have found mac works fine if you use it the way they want you to, which I don't. Drives me crazy. Yep, in IT and I prefer windows. Re kids, windows is the most widely used...

Wannabiker
26th May 2010, 20:42
As long as the kids can transfer their homework from the home computer to school and vice-versa......(Nothing worse than losing that homework project I can assure you)

My two staff swear by their Macs...I just use a cheap e-machines from Dick Smith...coz all I do is surf the net and check e-mail at home.....