Drinking Age?

[Skyryder]

Thought i would see how much support there is for a return to the drinking age of twenty years of age

[idb]

Thought i would see how much support there is for a return to the drinking age of twenty years of age
Frankly, every year my preference for the minimum drinking age goes up a year.
At the moment it sits at 40.

[Jeremy]

Well, as we've seen there's been a decrease in the drink related driving deaths with teens. There was a nice little graph in the herald a while back (a week ago I think). And all that it showed is that we're now at the same level it was around 1991. However that's in raw figures, so since we have an extra million people it's really decreased by around 25%.

I say get around to changing the casino law so those who are 18 are allowed to gamble in casinos as well.

[Sutage]

I turn 18 in August and will be highly pissed off if it changes to 20! Not that it really matters, can always get someone to get it for me, would be nice to be able to buy it myself :D Plus going into town/bars would be cool fun

[Wonko]

I remember the amount of shit I used to get up to when I was under 18, and able to get alcohol when the law stated 20. It was hard but doable. It was almost impossable when I was under 16. Now I go to parties, and there are 16 year olds with a 40 oz, drinking their nut's off. Raise the age again, and we'll have a lot less drinking related problems in 8 years time.

[John]

I turn 18 in August and will be highly pissed off if it changes to 20! Not that it really matters, can always get someone to get it for me, would be nice to be able to buy it myself :D Plus going into town/bars would be cool fun
This illustrates the point here, nuff said - "I'll just get someone else"

I think the driving age is more important 15? to drive I disagree, they cant drink but they can drive a 2 tonne metal machine around ?

[Ms Piggy]

It's just all a bit inconsistent really. Able to vote at 18, marry at 16 (with parental consent, marry at 20 (without parental consent), enlist at 18 (?), get your license at 15.

I'm really not sure but, I assume (without actually researching it) that lowering it has resulted in younger kids getting pissed and having access to alcohol.

[Hitcher]

The drinking age is 18. If society can't cope with that, then that is a problem caused by our attitudes and behaviours as a society towards consuming alcohol. God, how we delude ourselves as to how "grown up" we are. Good reason, in my view, to leave well enough alone with cannibis. Returning the "drinking age" to 20 will not help things one jot. The genie is too far out of the bottle now to catch and return.

[Waylander]

Had a bit of an upset in this when I moved here. Have to be 21 to drink in the states and I didn't turn that till I got here. Anyway that didn't stop me from drinking before and I doubt raising the age will stop any one who is underage to drink. It'll just mean that they will more often be drinking at a friends house and then try to drive home rather than being in town and nearly being forced to take a cab or the late bus. Positive not is it will clear all the teenie boppers out of bars and leave them for us older folk.

[SuperDave]

Like others have said, increasing the legal drinking age is not going to solve anything - but people continue to argue and delude themselves that it is the solution to the whole underage drinking/drinking driving problem. What they need to do is change the way our society views drinking. But that will be hard and is not something that will change overnight. Now if they really wanted to do something to prevent the high rate of road deaths/accidents due to underage drinking then they should change the driving age.

[Waylander]

Now if they really wanted to do something to prevent the high rate of road deaths/accidents due to underage drinking then they should change the driving age.

That wont change anything either. How many wrecks are caused by people with no licence at all... or even fake ones and such.

[Zed]

Thought i would see how much support there is for a return to the drinking age of twenty years of ageThere's no option in your poll for "instituting Prohibition"! That's what I'd vote for. :yes:

[Ixion]

Should there be any prescribed age ? Parental responsibility to stop children hitting the sauce , personal responsibility thereafter.

[Waylander]

There's no option in your poll for "instituting Prohibition"! That's what I'd vote for. :yes:
I remember learning about 'prohibition patty' or something like that in school. Seems this chick wanted prohibition to become law so she ran around atacking bars and such with an ax. They burned her at the stake or some such I believe.

[Phurrball]

NZ societal attitudes are more of an issue here...personal and parental responsibility do have a role to play in instilling better attitudes to alcohol in our young. (*Disclaimer* in spite of the previous words, I am not an ACT voter, or rabid right winger!) Many have a 'pisshead' phase and grow out of it, like many other 'antisocial' phases. (I did...to some extent :msn-wink: ).

Drinking in controlled environments has got to be better than getting older mates to buy booze so you can get trashed on the sly away from any responsible oversight. Perhaps a universal age of majority would be a good idea?

My $0.02...

[sAsLEX]

It's just all a bit inconsistent really. Able to vote at 18, marry at 16 (with parental consent, marry at 20 (without parental consent), enlist at 18 (?), get your license at 15.

I'm really not sure but, I assume (without actually researching it) that lowering it has resulted in younger kids getting pissed and having access to alcohol.

I was only 17 when I joined the Navy

[Zed]

I remember learning about 'prohibition patty' or something like that in school. Seems this chick wanted prohibition to become law so she ran around atacking bars and such with an ax. They burned her at the stake or some such I believe.She probably got what she deserved! Anyway Waylander, you'd know more about Prohibition coming from the States than most people in NZ would - we've never had it here.

[Waylander]

She probably got what she deserved! Anyway Waylander, you'd know more about Prohibition coming from the States than most people in NZ would - we've never had it here.
Not in Texas mate. petitions going round right now to make the legal drinking age 16 in Texas.:drinknsin

[John]

Not in Texas mate. petitions going round right now to make the legal drinking age 16 in Texas.:drinknsin
Yea america, land of the fucken retards - opps I didnt say that

go capitalism :wait:

[Ixion]

NZ societal attitudes are more of an issue here...personal and parental responsibility do have a role to play in instilling better attitudes to alcohol in our young. (..

Do they really need better attitudes ? Overall ? Seems to be a universal thing that everyone clobbers young folk over their attitude to this, attitude to that, bitches about them doing this or that. I've got to say that young people seem to have an attitude toward booze that's not much different to when I was their age. And probably for a couple of thousand years before that .

There'll always be a few exceptions in any age group, but the vast majority of young people I see don't have an attitude problem with booze. Yeah, maybe someone gets tanked up occasionally, but so do their parents. And grandparents. Most don't.

Maybe the politicians and the media should just leave the youff alone and stop using them as a convenient way to whip the Mrs Grundys into a fever.

[Motu]

There will always be underage drinkers - the lower the legal age,the lower the illeagal age...

[dart1202]

maybe old age 20 that newly can drink because when under age will not awake and dangerous when accelerate in is high-speed.

[James Deuce]

Do they really need better attitudes ? Overall ? Seems to be a universal thing that everyone clobbers young folk over their attitude to this, attitude to that, bitches about them doing this or that. I've got to say that young people seem to have an attitude toward booze that's not much different to when I was their age. And probably for a couple of thousand years before that .

There'll always be a few exceptions in any age group, but the vast majority of young people I see don't have an attitude problem with booze. Yeah, maybe someone gets tanked up occasionally, but so do their parents. And grandparents. Most don't.

Maybe the politicians and the media should just leave the youff alone and stop using them as a convenient way to whip the Mrs Grundys into a fever.

It's not their attitude in question. My examples of just how to consume alcohol in a social setting were, how would you say, extreme. NZ society as a whole seems to revel in excessive binge drinking. It isn't viewed as an adjunct to a social setting, it is the reason for the social event.

Prohibition didn't have any net effect in the US in regard to the amount of alcohol consumed, it just added the frisson of being illegal to going to the pub, in the same way that 16 Kiwi girls love going to the pub. The only lasting effect of prohibition was to almost completely destroy the quality and reputation of the better Irish Whisky distilleries.

[ManDownUnder]

The drinking age is 18. If society can't cope with that, then that is a problem caused by our attitudes and behaviours as a society towards consuming alcohol. God, how we delude ourselves as to how "grown up" we are. Good reason, in my view, to leave well enough alone with cannibis. Returning the "drinking age" to 20 will not help things one jot. The genie is too far out of the bottle now to catch and return.


AAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH - I'm agreeing with Hitcher - AAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHH

Cognitive dissonance... must stay calm... need a drink - no no - that's a depressant... ...MUST... FIND... sedatives...



..aaaaaaaaa... das bedda!
MDU :love:

[Lou Girardin]

50's good.

[MSTRS]

Perhaps a universal age of majority would be a good idea?


Yeah. Kids should be placed in secure lockup at puberty & not released til age 30.
Seriously tho, I think it is correct to say that the genie is out of the bottle so to speak. It is attitudes that are the problem not the age per se

[Coldkiwi]

Seriously tho, I think it is correct to say that the genie is out of the bottle so to speak. It is attitudes that are the problem not the age per se

don't really agree with that. Its dangerous to simply look at a reported 25% increase in underage drinking related deaths and say that lowering the drinking age has helped. I mean, can anyone here actually offer a sensible argument for why that would happen solely because the age was lowered? It may have had no affect at all and its quite possible it made it worse (more immature people can obviously buy it and supply it to others) but theres no logic whatsoever to suggest it made the driving problem better.

THUS.... it seems reasonable to assume that if the age were raised back, the young 'uns driving drunk problem would either:
a) stay the same or
b) reduce

As for the rest of it.. how about we ask some coppers on this site if they've found it easier to deal with drunk kids since the age was lowered since they'll be the ones who have to deal with them.

yes, one generation of horses have bolted, but there's still generations of horses to come that can be helped by the change.

[Biff]

I side with the social attitude bunch here. If you take a look at those countries that almost encourage drinking as part of the their dining culture, like France, you tend not to see such bad examples of teenagers drinking stupid amounts and getting into the mess, fighting, causing damage and develop drinking problems that many other countries that frown upon teenage alcohol consumption experience.

Maybe it's because teenage drinking is almost a social taboo that so many go out on the weekend and get smashed on quantities that are seriously dangerous for their health.

I do believe that NZ has a growing problem with teenagers getting wasted on the weekends. As the adage goes, it's not because you drink it's how you drink that’s the problem.

[Sutage]

Raise alcohol and legalise marijuana would actually probably be my vote. Or leave alcohol alone and legalise marijuana, thats where the real problem is.. getting arrested for having marijuana which does a hell of a lot less harm then tobacco/alcohol/coffee even. But the alcohol age wont get raised, the govt gets too much money from it, especially id say from 18-20 year olds, and at the end of the day whats it going to do? stop 16-19 year olds getting alcohol? I doubt it. The worst that would happen from raising the age to 20 and keeping marijuana illegal is people are going to go to other drugs... shit you can buy from scum drugdealers.. like P.
My 2c from a youngun :D
-Richard

[Ixion]

..

Maybe it's because teenage drinking is almost a social taboo that so many go out on the weekend and get smashed on quantities that are seriously dangerous for their health.

I do believe that NZ has a growing problem with teenagers getting wasted on the weekends. As the adage goes, it's not because you drink it's how you drink that’s the problem.



What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions.Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?

Plato circa 350BC. And the plagarising git stole it from a babylonian inscription about 2500 years older than that

So if them degenerate youff ain't learned better in 5000 odd years, don't expect they will any time soon.

[sAsLEX]

I side with the social attitude bunch here. If you take a look at those countries that almost encourage drinking as part of the their dining culture, like France, you tend not to see such bad examples of teenagers drinking stupid amounts and getting into the mess, fighting, causing damage and develop drinking problems that many other countries that frown upon teenage alcohol consumption experience.


Mate just got back from France, and while having a few beers after a parade ,the waiter looked at them weird when they kept ordering beer/wine for a total of about three glasses over a few hours, they are used to nursing one drink over an evening.

oh and a dozen Heiniken is like 6 bucks new zealand over there, and you can get bottles of wine for 40c

[MSTRS]

don't really agree with that. Its dangerous to simply look at a reported 25% increase in underage drinking related deaths and say that lowering the drinking age has helped. I mean, can anyone here actually offer a sensible argument for why that would happen solely because the age was lowered? It may have had no affect at all and its quite possible it made it worse (more immature people can obviously buy it and supply it to others) but theres no logic whatsoever to suggest it made the driving problem better.

THUS.... it seems reasonable to assume that if the age were raised back, the young 'uns driving drunk problem would either:
a) stay the same or
b) reduce

As for the rest of it.. how about we ask some coppers on this site if they've found it easier to deal with drunk kids since the age was lowered since they'll be the ones who have to deal with them.

yes, one generation of horses have bolted, but there's still generations of horses to come that can be helped by the change.
I didn't agree with lowering the age back when, and I agree with those that say it should go back to 20. What I was saying was the abuse of alcohol is an attitude thing rather than age, but that the problems out there now won't go away with raising the age. As a 17/18yo in the '70s I had no problem buying at the bottle store, neither did my mates and yes, some of us did get written off. But we had a lot more respect for adults, police etc & there were never any scenes of out of control debauchery like is fairly common these days. I think the attitudes of Generation ME is more the problem than chronological age when drinking, so putting the age back up will help a little but won't be the fix that some would suggest.

[Hitcher]

Few things make something as sexy and appealing to younger folk as placing age restrictions on them. Cigarettes, party pills, alcohol, pornography, sexual intercourse...

[Lou Girardin]

I was raised with the Italian attitude to alcohol. Kids had diluted wine with meals from a young age, it was no big deal. Then when I was a teenager I experienced binge drinking, I couldn't touch vodka for the next 10 years. While I have had the occasional "big night", the older I get - the less getting pissed appeals.
So I can't really understand the attitude that says you have to get off your face several times a week. Why are they trying to obliterate reality, self-hatred?

[Waylander]

Why are they trying to obliterate reality, self-hatred?

It's becouse we have old folk constantly telling us that the real world sucks and we'd better be ready for it. That and the constant bombardment from TV news and comercials and shows means that we are never in silence even in our own minds. Drinking seems to help create that silence. Me? I just go for a blat on the bike.

[Sutage]

I was raised with the Italian attitude to alcohol. Kids had diluted wine with meals from a young age, it was no big deal. Then when I was a teenager I experienced binge drinking, I couldn't touch vodka for the next 10 years. While I have had the occasional "big night", the older I get - the less getting pissed appeals.
So I can't really understand the attitude that says you have to get off your face several times a week. Why are they trying to obliterate reality, self-hatred?

Some of us prefer smoking a quiet joint with our friends but The Man says thats illegal.. leaving the legal alternative alcohol. I personally hate seeing drunk people at parties, especially females.. no offense.. but peoples personalitys totally change when theyve had too much to drink. Why do young people drink? Social, fun. Why do people get shit faced? Too much alcohol and not knowing their limits. Hohum.

[Biff]

Some of us prefer smoking a quiet joint with our friends but The Man says thats illegal.

Yup - would much prefer to smoke a bit of pot, laugh, giggle like a big girl, not put on weight nor feel like shit in the mornings (not that I can find any!) than drink. The legal alternative, as seen on the streets of our major towns and cities, is people, predominantly youngsters, getting pissed, fighting and smashing the place up. Ok - so I'm generalising to labour a point.

Most weekends I used to frequent a well known dance club back in the UK. A club regarded as being bit of a 'druggies' place because a lot of people there took ecstasy, smoked pot etc. I recall having a discussion with a police officer outside of the club one night and commented that he must hate working the night shift as that's when all the piss heads cause trouble. He replied, something along the lines of, "If it was up to me I'd ban alcomahol and allow the stuff that lot take in there. At least there is never any trouble caused by them when they come out. They just laugh, hug one another and go home."

Hmmmmmmmmm

[Sutage]

Yup - would much prefer to smoke a bit of pot, laugh, giggle like a big girl, not put on weight nor feel like shit in the mornings (not that I can find any!) than drink. The legal alternative, as seen on the streets of our major towns and cities, is people, predominantly youngsters, getting pissed, fighting and smashing the place up. Ok - so I'm generalising to labour a point.

Most weekends I used to frequent a well known dance club back in the UK. A club regarded as being bit of a 'druggies' place because a lot of people there took ecstasy, smoked pot etc. I recall having a discussion with a police officer outside of the club one night and commented that he must hate working the night shift as that's when all the piss heads cause trouble. He replied, something along the lines of, "If it was up to me I'd ban alcomahol and allow the stuff that lot take in there. At least there is never any trouble caused by them when they come out. They just laugh, hug one another and go home."

Hmmmmmmmmm

Exactly, try telling that to the rest of the public though, mainly the govt. When people get real drunk me and friends go off smoke a bit come back, we never fight, get loud do stupid stuff. And yeh sometimes you get classed a 'druggie' by ignorant morons but at the end of the day i have fun and i dont wake up in the morning feeling like shit. Too many people get violent and stuff when they drink, and to be honest its usally one of us 'druggies' who say, woah man just calm down etc.

Vote greens !

[inlinefour]

There is enough shyte behaviours about NZ without promoting it by allowing teenagers to get shit faced with alcohol. Most people thought it was a bad idea at the start, Govt probably thought of the tax that could be made from extra sales. Now they have the re-think? But slow if you ask me. Yea, I kow that there probably are teenagers out there that are OK with alcohol, but plenty of em aint.

[Lou Girardin]

Governments! The morons that raised the tax on light spirits to curb teen drinking. Curbed the oldies sherry and port instead.

[Phurrball]

Seems to be a universal thing that everyone clobbers young folk over their attitude to this, attitude to that, bitches about them doing this or that. I've got to say that young people seem to have an attitude toward booze that's not much different to when I was their age. And probably for a couple of thousand years before that .

Maybe the politicians and the media should just leave the youff alone and stop using them as a convenient way to whip the Mrs Grundys into a fever.

Jim2 puts it nicely in his earlier post. (I'm very glad that there was a qualifying 'almost' WRT the reputation of Irish Whiskey distilleries though! Anyone for a Bushmills single malt? :yes: ) [BTW, where's the drooling Homer icon when you need it?]

Indeed I agree with you Ixion - it was not the yooff I was getting at: Youff will always be youff, and as such *some* need to make mistakes to learn on occasion. I was more aiming at NZ's attitude to the firewater in general. To give you the societal context that partly shapes my attitudes, I was 20 when the drinking age was dropped. I think it should stay at 18 personally, and it seems hypocrasy to have tobacco and alcohol legal and controlled, and not cannibis.

(Please note: I'm not saying that the green stuff is a good thing, I don't like inhaling any smoke personally - no cookie recipies please!:msn-wink: )


Seriously tho, I think it is correct to say that the genie is out of the bottle so to speak. It is attitudes that are the problem not the age per se

Aye, the genie is out, and the de facto drinking age is now 'set', and shifting it would be an exercise in perversity. More worryingly, the attitudinal genie will take quite some shoving in again, as he's grown into quite a tubby bloater! :drinknsin

That said, these are more general arguments that ignore the more immediate 'cause and effect' scenarios that raising the drinking age would have - but I do think overall that raising the age would be a sticking-plaster solution at best.

[scumdog]

It's just all a bit inconsistent really. Able to vote at 18, marry at 16 (with parental consent, marry at 20 (without parental consent), enlist at 18 (?), get your license at 15.

I'm really not sure but, I assume (without actually researching it) that lowering it has resulted in younger kids getting pissed and having access to alcohol.
CSL, I often hear 'arguments' comparing drinking age to voting age to enlisting age, my point is at 18 NOBODY has got any real life experience and few have any common sense.
My job involves dealing with so many people who are under 18 who get themselves into so much strife by being drunk out on the street.

In the days of no drinking in public (or getting into night-clubs etc) until 20 years of age we had heaps less trouble.

I have seen so many 14 - 15 year olds comatose, in fights, not remembering who rooted them, crashing cars, being ripped off etc that I would be first in line to get the drinking age lifted. (idb's age of 40 sounds just about right)

[Skyryder]

http://www.20years.co.nz/ This just popped up in my email. If you feel strongly one way or another........................

Skyryder

[Clockwork]

Cause and effect SD. Is it only people under the age of 20 getting wasted? I suspect not. Do people below the legal drinking age still get wasted, yes. Will changing the law change these facts? Seems unlikely to me.

IMHO So long as getting "totally" pissed is socially acceptable, so long as parents "don't give a shit" what their teenagers are doing after 10pm at night, so long as bars target young drinkers with advertising and "atmosphere" and then hype them up with loud music etc.... so long as advertisers promote the "Export gold, party culture" then this shit is going to continue regardless of legal age limits.

Personally, I think it's time we stopped restricting the activities of responsible members of society because of the excesses of the minority and I don't see how society can vest the resposibilities of an adult in an 18 year old without allowing them the priveliges of adulthood.

[Hitcher]

Please don't turn this into a cannibis versus alcohol thread. This has been done before and is decidely unproductive. And I'm in no mood to rant. Maybe I need to ingest a mind-altering substance...

[El Dopa]

I remember learning about 'prohibition patty' or something like that in school. Seems this chick wanted prohibition to become law so she ran around atacking bars and such with an ax. They burned her at the stake or some such I believe.

Good fnukin' job. Prohibition didn't work last time, and actually increased the number of bars in the US by something like 1000%. If you want Zed, I'll dig the exact figures out for you.

[Lou Girardin]

Cause and effect SD. Is it only people under the age of 20 getting wasted? I suspect not. Do people below the legal drinking age still get wasted, yes. Will changing the law change these facts? Seems unlikely to me.

IMHO So long as getting "totally" pissed is socially acceptable, so long as parents "don't give a shit" what their teenagers are doing after 10pm at night, so long as bars target young drinkers with advertising and "atmosphere" and then hype them up with loud music etc.... so long as advertisers promote the "Export gold, party culture" then this shit is going to continue regardless of legal age limits.

Personally, I think it's time we stopped restricting the activities of responsible members of society because of the excesses of the minority and I don't see how society can vest the resposibilities of an adult in an 18 year old without allowing them the priveliges of adulthood.

SD says that there were less problems before the legal age was dropped to 18. So if it's raised to 20, why do you think the problem won't be eased? After all, the de facto age will increase too. It seems logical that the entire situation will revert to how it was pre - 18 limit.
BTW, you have to earn those priviliges, something that hasn't happened so far. Perhaps they should raises all legal age limits to 20.

[Clockwork]

In six years, society has moved on. I'm sure in another six years it will move on further. These changes that I don't dispute SD has witnessed may not be attributable to the law change. Binge drinking was not perceived to be a problem in the UK either 6 years ago...... yet they haven't changed their legal age of consumption.

And where did you get this idea that adult privileges have EVER needed to be earned? How did you earn yours?

[MSTRS]

SD says that there were less problems before the legal age was dropped to 18. So if it's raised to 20, why do you think the problem won't be eased? After all, the de facto age will increase too. It seems logical that the entire situation will revert to how it was pre - 18 limit.
BTW, you have to earn those priviliges, something that hasn't happened so far. Perhaps they should raises all legal age limits to 20.
If only you were both right - but I suspect that attitudes will be the things that makes the difference

[Indiana_Jones]

I think it should be 20, Im 18 and I don't think I should be drinking, well not the amount i do sometimes :drinknsin

But like it's been said before, kids will always get there hands on it :whistle:
It's kinda like gun laws, a few pricks kill the fun for everyone else

-Indy

[Lou Girardin]

In six years, society has moved on. I'm sure in another six years it will move on further. These changes that I don't dispute SD has witnessed may not be attributable to the law change. Binge drinking was not perceived to be a problem in the UK either 6 years ago...... yet they haven't changed their legal age of consumption.

And where did you get this idea that adult privileges have EVER needed to be earned? How did you earn yours?

Blood, sweat and tears.

[FlyingDutchMan]

I recon you should only be able to buy low alcohol (less than 8%) stuff from the age of 18, and then from 20 you can buy anything. I've never ever seen anyone go comatose from drinking beer (just chunder), but from bicardi or stronger stuff like that I've seen a few, and it definitely not pretty.

I was in Holland for a few months a few years ago and the drinking age there is 16 for beer and 18 for anything else, and I only every saw 2 people chunder (myself excluded :msn-wink: ), and none even get close to comatose. Seems to work really well.

[Sutage]

I recon you should only be able to buy low alcohol (less than 8%) stuff from the age of 18, and then from 20 you can buy anything. I've never ever seen anyone go comatose from drinking beer (just chunder), but from bicardi or stronger stuff like that I've seen a few, and it definitely not pretty.

I was in Holland for a few months a few years ago and the drinking age there is 16 for beer and 18 for anything else, and I only every saw 2 people chunder (myself excluded :msn-wink: ), and none even get close to comatose. Seems to work really well.

Beer can make you puke when people bang the top so it all froffs up and you have to finish the bottle.. then they do it again and again ... :whistle:

Very good idea though, 18 for beer/silly lolly drinks then 20 for spirits :niceone:

[ManDownUnder]

Sure ED, if you have *proof* that Prohibition in the US was the cause of a 1000% increase in bars I would love to see it...but even if you provide that evidence it doesn't necessarily mean it "didn't work" during the time it was in effect! :D

I love stats!

That means there could have been 10 new bars open (if there was only one...)

imagine it - 10 bars right across the US... hell that's 2.5 in every timezone!

Or it could mean no new bars (if there were none open - it was prohibition after all)...

or it might mean MILLIONS of new bars opened... and I wonder how many went out of business after prohibition stopped...

ooo I just love stats...

Lies, damned lies and STATISTICS!!

[Skyryder]

Sure ED, if you have *proof* that Prohibition in the US was the cause of a 1000% increase in bars I would love to see it...but even if you provide that evidence it doesn't necessarily mean it "didn't work" during the time it was in effect! :D

I take great delight in shooting you down in flames Zed and the above is no exception. If there ever was an argument of illogical logic you seem to find it.

Of course prohibition did not work. That's why they did away with it. But your probably believe that the real reason was so Holywood could make gangster movies.

Skyryder

[Matt Bleck]

If you can vote, go to war, root and get married, then shouldn't you be able to get your own grog??

[inlinefour]

Please don't turn this into a cannibis versus alcohol thread. This has been done before and is decidely unproductive. And I'm in no mood to rant. Maybe I need to ingest a mind-altering substance...

Here was I thinking that was where you got all your "words of wisdom"...

:killingme

[Rainbow Wizard]

I think it should be 20, Im 18 and I don't think I should be drinking, well not the amount i do sometimes....
18 for restaurants ie with a sit down meal. How's that for a compromise?

[Indiana_Jones]

18 for restaurants ie with a sit down meal. How's that for a compromise?

That doesn't sound too bad :niceone:

-Indy

[El Dopa]

I love stats!

That means there could have been 10 new bars open (if there was only one...)

imagine it - 10 bars right across the US... hell that's 2.5 in every timezone!

Or it could mean no new bars (if there were none open - it was prohibition after all)...

or it might mean MILLIONS of new bars opened... and I wonder how many went out of business after prohibition stopped...

ooo I just love stats...

Lies, damned lies and STATISTICS!!

Now where the deuce (gotta be respectful to Zed, like) is Zed's reply to my post, that this a reply to? I'll dig out the statistics at te weekend and post them up. As a taster, and from memory, one of the choicer ones is something like: before prohibition there were 123 bars in X state. When prohibition was repealed there were 2,000 - in one county of that state.

Like I say, I will dig them out at the weekend.

[Goddess of Goof]

I personally hate seeing drunk people at parties, especially females.. no offense.. but peoples personalitys totally change when theyve had too much to drink. Why do young people drink? Social, fun. Why do people get shit faced? Too much alcohol and not knowing their limits. Hohum.

Yeah, I come down on the Social Conditioning side of the argument too.

Teenage behaviour has a lot to do with status, being recognised, and being in with the crowd. Older, more mature societies like Italy and France & so on, don't have a problemo because they acknowledge their young Men & Women earlier, and better than we do. Present-day NZ often shows a totally dysfunctional approach to alcohol, sex, and personal responsibility.

Jewish culture holds Bar (Boy) & Bat (girl) Mitzvah's to formally welcome the ex-child into adult ranks.
If we developed "Welcome to Adulthood" ceremonies in NZ which expressly welcomed 16 year olds into adult society, and getting totally pissed wasn't the mark of being an adult -------- who knows, we might get better behaviour ???? But mostly our adults are too insecure, too emotionally illiterate to ever develop an appropriate Welcoming ceremony for our young 'uns.

And if the parents won't do it, who will?
Creepy Cults, church zealots, your local gang, the teenagers themselves??
Of course - Whangamata at New Year's YEAH :yes:

[NC]

Ah make it 21!

[John]

Ah make it 21!
I'll make you 21!

[NC]

I'll make you 21!
Respect your elders!

[John]

Respect your elders!
I only respect my booze, I would be thoughly pissed off If I couldnt wander over the road pick up some beer and then work on my bike, infact I'd be pissed off - but then I supose I could get someone else to get it but why its to late to stop this crap its being fucked up for years if you all dont drink infront of the kids then maybe they wont see it as a glorified act and then go and get wasted with there friends?!

If you play nice I will let you have some cat food :)?