Motorway, open road and harbour bridge?

[auvicua]

Hi guys:

I just got my bike yesterday and I'm still on a leaner's plate at this moment. I just wonder am I allowed to get on the motorway, the harbor bridge or even the open road? Since I only can go up to 70ks a hour. Could anybody give me some advice, because I want to go to the north shore during the weekend! :yes:
Thanks

[MadDuck]

I just wonder am I allowed to get on the motorway, the harbor bridge or even the open road?

Dont they tell you this stuff before you get your L Plate?

[mikemike104]

I'm on my learners and I just sit between a 100 and 110 , I feel as long as I don't ride stupid I wont get stopped and ticketed. *hopes*

[GOONR]

I went over the bridge 5 days a week on my L, it's only 80kph anyway so no big deal with regards to the L.

My advise would be to get on and off the motorway system as soon as you can once over the bridge.

Oh yeah, enjoy the ride and take it easy.

[GOONR]

Dont they tell you this stuff before you get your L Plate?

Unfortunately not :(

[GOONR]

I'm on my learners and I just sit on a hundred, I feel as long as I don't ride stupid I wont get stopped and ticketed. *hopes*


There have been a few (not many if I recall correctly) post's on here with people on their L being ticketed for breaching that just after being on the bridge.

[MadDuck]

Unfortunately not :(

Ok forgive me I wasnt meaning to sound sarcastic. I got my bike license when dinosaurs were still wandering the earth.

That someone has to come to an internet forum to see if its legal to cross the Harbour Bridge at (sorry below) the legal speed is SO WRONG!

[GOONR]

Ok forgive me I wasnt meaning to sound sarcastic. I got my bike license when dinosaurs were still wandering the earth.

That someone has to come to an internet forum to see if its legal to cross the Harbour Bridge at the legal speed is SO WRONG!

Haha. Didn't take it that way MadDuck, there is a lot that you aren't told but are expected to know, I guess it all comes back to personal responsibility at the end of the day.

[mikemike104]

There have been a few (not many if I recall correctly) post's on here with people on their L being ticketed for breaching that just after being on the bridge.

I'll just take my chance's with the rest of the road users I reckon.

[GOONR]

I'll just take my chance's with the rest of the road users I reckon.

Yeah, I don't think it is that common to be pulled up for it if your not drawing attention to yourself, just saying that it can happen.

[Spearfish]

I think for the most part you have the 10k discretion thing so any 80k zone is fine just don't stick out from the crowd to burn up that discretion (not that it legally exists any more). There is a scooter going over the bridge with L plates on in wind,rain or shine most mornings.

[crystalball]

if your worried just take off the L plate and stick to the speed limit. you only get pulled over if you do something wrong, like example, while back 10yrs or so lol, i was on my honda 250 cb travaling along highway one on learners. silly me nooby rider thought i was a big boy and over took a car and semi trailer truck now just managed to get in front of truck just befopr a small bridge and a oncoming truck. meanwhile the car i over took put its sirens on lol (undercover) and my little bike slowed down heaps going uphill. i pulled over onto a road to the left and two guys looked at me in shock lol, i had no L plate and they looked at my licence and then gave it back and said they giving me a warning as THEY ARE JUST HAPPY THEY DON'T HAVE TO CLEAN A MESS UP. LOL, i reakon learners should be able to ride up to 400cc!!

[davereid]

if your worried just take off the L plate and stick to the speed limit.

Never ride without your L plate. Its a license condition, and you will be-insured if you crash in breach of your licence.

The law is complete arse with the 70km/hr restriction, so try and get off the L plate license as quickly as you legally can.

L plates seem to cause aggression and frustration in some drivers. If you are concerned about this, attach your L plate to the left hand side of the number plate, with the L facing forward. It is then legally attached, and clearly visible, just not to the drongo behind you.

If you paint the back of it black, the following driver will be completely unaware that you are on an L plate.

[marty]

If you are really nervous about it, enter the bridge at Curran St, stay in the LH lane, exit at Stafford Rd or Onewa Rd. Plenty of buses and trucks that are going slower than 70km/h over the bridge, so you're hardly going to raise an eyebrow. Once you're over the bridge it's pretty wide open - would be an easy cruise staying left all the way to Esmonde if you felt that way inclined.

IMHO, I would think that the bridge would be less of a stress than the Western/Upper Harbour route

[Nasty]

Ok forgive me I wasnt meaning to sound sarcastic. I got my bike license when dinosaurs were still wandering the earth.

That someone has to come to an internet forum to see if its legal to cross the Harbour Bridge at (sorry below) the legal speed is SO WRONG!

No one has to come to an internet to get this information. Its in the license books. The thing is the interpretation is not too clear.

I think the idea of keeping to 70 km was to keep learners off the motorway (which is rather silly) ...

[BoristheBiter]

I rode once at 70 on the motorway and would never do it again.
cars are so close behind you that if you fart they know what you had for breakfast.
I cut a yellow strip off and stuck it on the plate, got stopped once at a checkpoint and told them it must have fell off, got told to put it on again.
Like said above just get off the L plate as soon as possable.

[peasea]

No one has to come to an internet to get this information. Its in the license books. The thing is the interpretation is not too clear.

I think the idea of keeping to 70 km was to keep learners off the motorway (which is rather silly) ...

There's a fair bit of ambiguity in the NZ road rules, don't envy newbies. That 70kph thing is b/s for Aucklanders, it's just not safe in many areas to pootle along at 70. Screw it; go with the flow.

[Love my Bonnie]

Once I was confident, I never stuck to the 70k limit.
I agree with everyone that is saying that if you dont draw attention to yourself, the cops will leave you alone.

DON"T take your L plate off, I wish i could have had a flashing neon L plate when I was learning.
It lets others on the road know why you may stall or do something silly (as we all did when we were learning).

[BoristheBiter]

Once I was confident, I never stuck to the 70k limit.
I agree with everyone that is saying that if you dont draw attention to yourself, the cops will leave you alone.

DON"T take your L plate off, I wish i could have had a flashing neon L plate when I was learning.
It lets others on the road know why you may stall or do something silly (as we all did when we were learning).

Agreed, i had been riding for about 10 years on dirt before i got my learners so i had the confidence.
But yes if i didn't, i don't think i would have went on the motorway

[p.dath]

Hi guys:

I just got my bike yesterday and I'm still on a leaner's plate at this moment. I just wonder am I allowed to get on the motorway, the harbor bridge or even the open road? Since I only can go up to 70ks a hour. Could anybody give me some advice, because I want to go to the north shore during the weekend! :yes:
Thanks

You are not allowed to impede the flow of traffic. So if the traffic is moving at 100Km/h, you are not allowed on those roads. If you know there is traffic congestion, then you can.

[Swoop]

The bridge is an 80kmh zone, so the difference is minimal if wearing an L-plate.
Ride to the conditions and dominate your lane by using the right hand wheel track.


You are not allowed to impede the flow of traffic. So if the traffic is moving at 100Km/h, you are not allowed on those roads.
Rubbish. Small scooters are about the only thing not allowed on the motorway as they have to be capable of sustained motorway speeds.

[p.dath]

The bridge is an 80kmh zone, so the difference is minimal if wearing an L-plate.
Ride to the conditions and dominate your lane by using the right hand wheel track.


Rubbish. Small scooters are about the only thing not allowed on the motorway as they have to be capable of sustained motorway speeds.

Impeding the flow of traffic is around $150 fine and is covered in "Land Transport (Offences and Penalties) Regulations 1999". You can read about it in the Wiki:
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/wiki/Offences_and_Penalties

[RUSS]

When you get on the motorway from Fanshaw Street the speed limit is 70km/h due to the roadworks. When you get to the bridge the speed limit is 80km/h and remains 80 until past Stafford Road exit and before Onewa Road exit. You don't need to worry about a ticket because if you get one it's because you are speeding regardless of licence class.

[peasea]

You are not allowed to impede the flow of traffic. So if the traffic is moving at 100Km/h, you are not allowed on those roads. If you know there is traffic congestion, then you can.

And what happens when it suddenly clears and you go with the flow to avoid impeding the flow of traffic? Instant offence, ka-ching.

[sleemanj]

Never ride without your L plate. Its a license condition, and you will be-insured if you crash in breach of your licence.


Assuming you meant to say "you will not be insured", then you are wrong wrong, wronger than a wrong thing.

Not having a WOF does not void your insurance.
Not having a current vehicle licence (Reg) does not void your insurance.
Not having an L-Plate does not void your insurance.
...

Insurance Law reform Act 1977 makes it clear that to deny a claim the reason must be directly relevant to the reason for the claim. If you get rear ended, or even have an off, not having an L-Plate attached to your bike is exceedingly unlikely to be in any way relevant to the claim.

[davereid]

Assuming you meant to say "you will not be insured", then you are wrong wrong, wronger than a wrong thing.

Not having a WOF does not void your insurance.
Not having a current vehicle licence (Reg) does not void your insurance.
Not having an L-Plate does not void your insurance.
...

Insurance Law reform Act 1977 makes it clear that to deny a claim the reason must be directly relevant to the reason for the claim. If you get rear ended, or even have an off, not having an L-Plate attached to your bike is exceedingly unlikely to be in any way relevant to the claim.

No you are wrong. Riding without an L plate (if one is a condition of your licence), means you don't have a licence.

And riding without a licence is directly relevant to your insurance.

Unlicensed drivers are not insured.


So you are wrong. Wronger than a wrong thing.

[sleemanj]

No you are wrong. Riding without an L plate (if one is a condition of your licence), means you don't have a licence.

And riding without a licence is directly relevant to your insurance.

Unlicensed drivers are not insured.


Care to provide a reference for your statement, a reference which superceeds the law?

"the insured shall not be disentitled to be indemnified by the
insurer by reason only of such provisions of the contract of
insurance if the insured proves on the balance of probability
that the loss in respect of which the insured seeks to be
indemnified was not caused or contributed to by the happening
of such events or the existence of such circumstances."

Insurance Law Reform Act 1977

If we took your line davereid then an insurer could say "no I won't pay out because you didn't have an L-plate" and get away with it even if the rider said "oh, somebody must have stolen it and I didn't notice" because the insurer says "doesn't matter, no l-plate no licence no insurance".

In my opinion the Insurance Law Reform Act 1977 precludes this precisely because an L-Plate satisfies this clause - "not caused or contributed to by the happening of such events or the existence of such circumstances" which prevents the insurer denying the claim on that basis.

[davereid]

Care to provide a reference for your statement, a reference which superceeds the law?

"the insured shall not be disentitled to be indemnified by the
insurer by reason only of such provisions of the contract of
insurance if the insured proves on the balance of probability
that the loss in respect of which the insured seeks to be
indemnified was not caused or contributed to by the happening
of such events or the existence of such circumstances."

Insurance Law Reform Act 1977

If we took your line davereid then an insurer could say "no I won't pay out because you didn't have an L-plate" and get away with it even if the rider said "oh, somebody must have stolen it and I didn't notice" because the insurer says "doesn't matter, no l-plate no licence no insurance".

In my opinion the Insurance Law Reform Act 1977 precludes this precisely because an L-Plate satisfies this clause - "not caused or contributed to by the happening of such events or the existence of such circumstances" which prevents the insurer denying the claim on that basis.

If you are in breach of your licence conditions you are unlicensed.

Care to quote a law which makes an insurer pay out for an unlicensed driver ? Being unlicensed is absolutely a contributing factor in an at fault accident.

Why not ring your insurer and ask ? Make sure the insurers representative understands that you will be riding unlicensed. He or She may not be aware that no L plate makes you unlicensed, but the insurance assessor will be. The same applies to an at-fault accident if you are drunk. The accident may have been caused by a road defect, vehicle defect, not the alcohol.

But you are still uninsured.

It is NOT the same as having a blown light bulb, or no current rego. The assessor may not notice you are supposed to have the L plate on, he may notice and not care. But if he does, you have just given him a get-out-of jail free card.

[Sentox]

If you are in breach of your licence conditions you are unlicensed.

Care to quote a law which makes an insurer pay out for an unlicensed driver ? Being unlicensed is absolutely a contributing factor in an at fault accident.

Why not ring your insurer and ask ? Make sure the insurers representative understands that you will be riding unlicensed. He or She may not be aware that no L plate makes you unlicensed, but the insurance assessor will be. The same applies to an at-fault accident if you are drunk. The accident may have been caused by a road defect, vehicle defect, not the alcohol.

But you are still uninsured.

It is NOT the same as having a blown light bulb, or no current rego. The assessor may not notice you are supposed to have the L plate on, he may notice and not care. But if he does, you have just given him a get-out-of jail free card.

Question remains then: what happens if someone steals the plate while you're parked, or it comes off in the accident and can't be found? Tough luck, no insurance?

[firefighter]

There is so much mis-guided, wrong and downright stupid fucken advice in this thread it should be put straight into P.D.

Yes, you can ride on the fucken motorway. Period. Riding at 70KPH on the motorway is not an offence.


Interestingly, when I checked the road code for this, I came across this little gem;

Safe riding on motorways

When riding on a motorway:

keep left, unless you are passing WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!! Some real good advice there from the road code.......:mellow:

Also there's some shit in the law changes section about texting or making calls while riding, i'm not joking. It says it must be hands free now......good to know?! :blink:

Goes to show, motorcycles are so far down the give a shit list, I dunno why BRONZ bothers, big ups to them, but obviously the system is'nt interested.
watch for exit signs
get into the correct exit lane in plenty of time
signal for at least three seconds before you change lanes
you must not stop your vehicle, except in an emergency
you must not make a U-turn
you must not stop to let down or pick up passengers
if you miss your exit, don't stop and reverse - instead, drive on to the next exit.

[sleemanj]

Arguing with you I can see will be pointless as your mind is made up. However, I will guarantee you, if you want to believe it or not, that the ILRA1977 precludes any such "get out of jail free". You can not contract out of law.

[davereid]

Question remains then: what happens if someone steals the plate while you're parked, or it comes off in the accident and can't be found? Tough luck, no insurance?

As I commented, technically you are unlicensed without it.

Which is just part of the crappy learner licensing system. I would hope that a reasonable insurer, with a reasonable assessor would still give you cover.

But you would be a fool to deliberately remove it, and take that chance.

[davereid]

Arguing with you I can see will be pointless as your mind is made up. However, I will guarantee you, if you want to believe it or not, that the ILRA1977 precludes any such "get out of jail free". You can not contract out of law.

Fair enough mate. Its your insurance, I hope you never get to find out. But they are not contracting out of law - as you are un licenced they are not obligated to pay.

[GOONR]

If you are in breach of your licence conditions you are unlicensed.

I read it as.. if the bike doesn't show the L plate then you are not authorised to use that bike but you are still the holder of a learner licence. I can't find anywhere that says you are unlicensed opposed to being in breach of licence.

Are the penalties different for a learner driver in a car without a full licence holder present as opposed to a person driving a car with no licence at all. Serious question, I don't know the answer to that.

[firefighter]

Dont they tell you this stuff before you get your L Plate?


Fair enough mate. Its your insurance, I hope you never get to find out. But they are not contracting out of law - as you are un licenced they are not obligated to pay.


Does this include not being registered?

[firefighter]

Fair enough mate. Its your insurance, I hope you never get to find out. But they are not contracting out of law - as you are un licenced they are not obligated to pay.


Does this include not being registered?

[Sentox]

As I commented, technically you are unlicensed without it.

Which is just part of the crappy learner licensing system. I would hope that a reasonable insurer, with a reasonable assessor would still give you cover.

But you would be a fool to deliberately remove it, and take that chance.

Insurers are hardly renowned for their goodwill, sadly. Keeps the profit margins healthy, I guess.

[davereid]

I read it as.. if the bike doesn't show the L plate then you are not authorised to use that bike but you are still the holder of a learner licence. .

Your licence is only valid for a motorcycle of less than 250cc that carries L plates. Riding a bike without L plates, or a bike of greater than 250cc means you ride unlicensed. Its a crappy law. But it is the one we are stuck with.

[davereid]

Does this include not being registered?

I discussed this at length with my broker.

No license or not being licensed for the class of vehicle you are driving = no insurance
Drunk = No insurance. In fact insurers have declined claims when the driver has been drinking but is not legally drunk, ie < .08
No vehicle registration = not relevant
No WOF = insurer may decline claim if vehicle defect is relevant

I am sure there will be those who have had insurance accepted when drunk, unlicensed etc. But I wouldn't bet on it.

[Ixion]

No , it is a breach of license conditions. You can't break licence conditions unless you have a licence.

Same as not wearing spectacles if that is a condition of your licence.

If you were riding unlicensed you could be forbidden to drive and your vehicle impounded if you did

[Virago]

No you are wrong. Riding without an L plate (if one is a condition of your licence), means you don't have a licence.

And riding without a licence is directly relevant to your insurance.

Unlicensed drivers are not insured.


So you are wrong. Wronger than a wrong thing.

Twaddle.

A minor breach of law does not render you "unlicenced". Are you saying that anyone who accidentally leaves their licence at home when they go out is unlicenced and uninsured...?

For an insurance company to decline a claim, they must show that any law breach at the time contributed to the accident.

[davereid]

Twaddle. A minor breach of law does not render you "unlicenced". Are you saying that anyone who accidentally leaves their licence at home when they go out is unlicenced and uninsured...? For an insurance company to decline a claim, they must show that any law breach at the time contributed to the accident.

Hmm.. Not riding without carrying your licence is illegal, but does not make you unlicensed. I agree there.

But, I'm not sure I agree that you would still be licensed if your were riding a 350 on a learners licence, as your licence does not authorise that class of vehicle. By the same token your licence authorises you to ride a 250 or less, that is fitted with L plates.

So riding without L plates effectively means you are unlicensed.

Nonetheless I would be extremely pleased to find I am wrong !

[Ixion]

Different issues regarding insurance versus law . Legally you either have a license or you don't. The rest is conditions endorsements etc.

But an insurance company could probably argue that if you have no bike icence then there is no evidence that you know how to ride at all and that they would not have insured you in the first place if they had known that

[barty5]

Back to the original question this being the Auckland harbor bridge when dose it ever really get up to its posted speed limit anyway half the time it would be quicker to walk.

[auvicua]

Thanks for all the (different) advices! :)
To sum it up, I think it will be ok for me to ride cross the harbor bridge but will not be very wise to ride on the motorway. And I think I will have my L plate displayed for now.

[FJRider]

But, I'm not sure I agree that you would still be licensed if your were riding a 350 on a learners licence, as your licence does not authorise that class of vehicle. By the same token your licence authorises you to ride a 250 or less, that is fitted with L plates.

So riding without L plates effectively means you are unlicensed.

Nonetheless I would be extremely pleased to find I am wrong !

As I understand it ... Riding a 350 cc bike, when you are only licenced to ride a 250 cc ... with L plates. Means ... you are in riding breach of your licence conditions .... Which you can be charged with ... $400 fine for that I think ...

[davereid]

As I understand it ... Riding a 350 cc bike, when you are only licenced to ride a 250 cc ... with L plates. Means ... you are in riding breach of your licence conditions .... Which you can be charged with ... $400 fine for that I think ...

And 25 demerits (maybe 35 now with the demerit increase ?)

My argument is not that its a serious offence, cos its not. It shouldn't even be an offence. What I'm suggesting is that its a breach of your licence conditions may mean that you are technically unlicensed. Which may effect your insurance. I sincerely hope its not the case, but I'd drive a vehicle I'm licensed for if I was relying on my insurance.

[FJRider]

And 25 demerits (maybe 35 now with the demerit increase ?)

My argument is not that its a serious offence, cos its not. It shouldn't even be an offence. What I'm suggesting is that its a breach of your licence conditions may mean that you are technically unlicensed. Which may effect your insurance. I sincerely hope its not the case, but I'd drive a vehicle I'm licensed for if I was relying on my insurance.

It would seem not a serious offence at first ... but if riding outside licence conditions (ie:riding a motorcycle you are not licenced for [thats how it is read out in Court] ... maybe with a pillion) and an accident occurs, regardless of whom is at fault ... it can get very messy ... very quickly. Especially with a "lesser" skilled rider ...
As for insurance ... if in doubt folks ... read your policys, contact your insurer ... and ask questions ...
With the ACC shake ups ... they may not pay out if laws were broken at the time of the accident ...