Bucket development: A few questions for the wise ones

[Bert]

Hi all.
I been slowly building up a new F4 100cc two stroke bucket motor (first new motor in at lease 10 years) and I've got a few questions regarding:

1. Sparkplugs, Standard spark-plug (NGK B9EGV or NDw29ES*) thread lengths are normally 3/4" long, has anyone found a 14mm pitch racing plug that is in the same heat range (~NGK 9-10) that has a longer thread (lets say ~22mm, I recall something about tz125s & rotaxs kart motors having longer threaded plugs, so temp sensors could be installed)?
(reason: I'm figuring out the best way to profile my head). I've download the NGK catalogue but can't seem to find anything useful.

2. Carbs, Do early RGV (1988-90ish) require vacuum pressure or pressurised air-box to work correctly? (reason, I've got a box of carbs but the RGV fits the best).
Was planning on sleeving it down to 30mm. any help on these carbs would be great (I've spend hours looking/googling for information on these to no avail, so its time to ask).

3. Rubber engine mounts, I've done a little bit of work to mount the engine directly to the swingarm pivot, so now I just need to make some new rubber bushes. This is not looking like an off the shelve solution, so I'm going to need to make something up. I was thinking about some rubber hose with a steal insert (which the swingarm bolt go's through); but I'm not sure if hose will be dense enough or even be suitable. any thoughts ??

cheers in advance.

Brent

[schrodingers cat]

Hi all.

3. Rubber engine mounts, I've done a little bit of work to mount the engine directly to the swingarm pivot, so now I just need to make some new rubber bushes. This is not looking like an off the shelve solution, so I'm going to need to make something up. I was thinking about some rubber hose with a steal insert (which the swingarm bolt go's through); but I'm not sure if hose will be dense enough or even be suitable. any thoughts ??



The bush type you are decribing is known as a 'metalastic' bush.
Rubber hardness is expressed in 'Shore' numbers. The bigger the number, the harder the rubber. Usually this type of bush has a shore number of 80 or 90.
Your homemade hose bush would be lucky to achieve Shore 50. Better if you were able to crush the hose.


Get hold of The Mount Shop and have a look at their catalogue. There are all sorts of weird and wonderful things you may be able to adapt.
Otherwise look at Stocks range of Urethane bushings

[bucketracer]

3. Rubber engine mounts, I've done a little bit of work to mount the engine directly to the swingarm pivot, so now I just need to make some new rubber bushes. This is not looking like an off the shelve solution, so I'm going to need to make something up. I was thinking about some rubber hose with a steal insert (which the swingarm bolt go's through); but I'm not sure if hose will be dense enough or even be suitable. any thoughts ?? cheers in advance. Brent

Early TZ's came from the factory bolted up in the normal way at the rear mounting points and with metalastic bushes in the front. The top rear mount used to rip off and the frame crack around the lower rear engine mount. The cure was to discard the top rear mount and fit nolathane or metalastic bushes to the lower rear mounts.

Rubber hose and a steel bush, remember this is buckets and your allowed to explore any solution you like, if the rubber area of the bush is a lot longer than a normal metalastic bush, it might give the engine enough support to work.

[bucketracer]

2. Carbs, Do early RGV (1988-90ish) require vacuum pressure or pressurised air-box to work correctly? (reason, I've got a box of carbs but the RGV fits the best).
Was planning on sleeving it down to 30mm. any help on these carbs would be great (I've spend hours looking/googling for information on these to no avail, so its time to ask).
cheers in advance.

Brent

Are RGV carbs slightly down draft? as I think Chambers has an early 32mm RGV carb on his 22.5 rwhp GP100, it works just fine, I will see if I can find a picture for you to check, so you can see if its the same as yours.......

[bucketracer]

1. Sparkplugs, Standard spark-plug (NGK B9EGV or NDw29ES*) thread lengths are normally 3/4" long, has anyone found a 14mm pitch racing plug that is in the same heat range (~NGK 9-10) that has a longer thread (lets say ~22mm, I recall something about tz125s & rotaxs kart motors having longer threaded plugs, so temp sensors could be installed)?
(reason: I'm figuring out the best way to profile my head). I've download the NGK catalogue but can't seem to find anything useful.

cheers in advance.

Brent

Found this here:- http://www.two-strokes.com/forums/index.php?/topic/6985-honda-rs125-spark-plugs/

old = R6120-105 = R7282-105 = new => short insulator, thread dia 14 mm X 19 mm, spanner 16 mm,

e.g. Deto: R6120A-105 = R7282A-105 => thread dia 14 mm X 22 mm, spanner 16 mm, no gasket for deto counter

old = R6385-10 = R7376-10 = new => long insulator, thread dia 14 mm X 19 mm, spanner 20.8 mm

R7376B-10 => thread dia 14 mm X 22 mm, spanner 20.8 mm

PDF of NGK racing plugs here:- http://www.elit.cz/Files/ObrazkyPModdeleni/Elektro/NGK/brochure_racingplugs_ENG.pdf

[Bert]

Get hold of The Mount Shop and have a look at their catalogue.

Nice feedback guys. already some solutions. Thanks a lot.
Bucketracer, yes it is the same carb; so that said; it is safe to assume that it doesn't require either. just put it in and away we go... (well sort of).
Sparkplugs ouch, $$$, o'well its the price you pay for building silly things.

[=cJ=]

You can also go the sikaflex way for your rubber mounts, you just have to get an inner and outer bit of steel tube, then fill the gap.

Have a look here, the GT-4 guys also used it heaps.

http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=24675

[jasonu]

No need for rubber mounting if you do a proper job and your engine isn't a 'shaker'. The motor in the pic is totally solid mounted, it runs smooth with no vib problem in the pegs or bars and has never broken or cracked the frame.

[schrodingers cat]

You can also go the sikaflex way for your rubber mounts, you just have to get an inner and outer bit of steel tube, then fill the gap.

Have a look here, the GT-4 guys also used it heaps.

http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=24675


If you keep looking down the post there is some other interesting info

Hardness scale

Rubber band 25-35
Light car tyre 60-65
Tap washer 85-90
Heavy track tyre 95-100

Standard engine rubber mount 40-50
Noltec polyethylene bushes 80-85

From what I can see on the web, material with 70 to 80 hardness will be a good place to start.

As to the material choice.

Sikaflex does not seem to be the right material for the purpose.
It is primarily a sealant, and it’s hardness is 23-27, which is very low.
http://www.sika.com.au/home/cmc/cmc/...lexPRO_tds.pdf

Devcon’s Flexane 94 seems to be a good product, however with claimed hardness 97, I would not use it.
The harder the better is not the case – cracks in metal may be the result.
The softer version, Flexane 80, has hardness 87, which is still a bit high.
There is an add-on flexibiliser (what a word ) which lets you to lower the hardness.
http://www.devcon.com/techinfo/153.pdf
The good thing is you can do different hardness bushes from the same set of chemicals, so no waste.

So in fairness the sikaflex method is a band-aid.

I think JasonU is correct re solid mounting SO LONG AS your frame is sufficiently rigid and the casings you're attaching to are sufficiently strong.
THe last thing you need is critical areas of the engine getting distorted under load. 'Stressed' engines are designed to spread these loads in a predictable manner.

If yu're not generating a whole heap of grip and havn't got a berzillion HP then it is all a bit academic

[Bert]

No need for rubber mounting if you do a proper job and your engine isn't a 'shaker'. The motor in the pic is totally solid mounted, it runs smooth with no vib problem in the pegs or bars and has never broken or cracked the frame.


If you keep looking down the post there is some other interesting info

I think JasonU is correct re solid mounting SO LONG AS your frame is sufficiently rigid and the casings you're attaching to are sufficiently strong.
THe last thing you need is critical areas of the engine getting distorted under load. 'Stressed' engines are designed to spread these loads in a predictable manner.

.... berzillion HP then it is all a bit academic

Great feedback guys.
Maybe this is being over cautious, not having not actually had the motor running yet, I'm not sure if she will be a shaker or not (given the balancing work done thus far, she shouldn't be). The engine mounts/casings look like they have been designed with stressed member mounting in mind, so hopefully I havent gone down the wrong path with this...

But having destroyed my share of mounts and frames over the years; I thought it prudent to at lease try and do the job right to start off with.. As I suspect this might be my last build for some time (wifey issues) so I really want it to last.

[marsheng]

As you are using long plugs, mill the plug recess down by 2-3 mm. Then you can use standard plugs rather than special ones for the life of the motor. If you remove the thermocouple later, replace it with a 2 mm aly washer. Cheers

[F5 Dave]

Hi

With that engine you should be fine, but a TS/TF motor designed to run at 6000 rpm around a sheeptrack then asked to do 11,000 vibrates like a , . . .well I'll let someone deviantly filthy (like Jason) complete the analogy.

RGV carb should be fine on a hot 100 pulling revs, I wouldn't sleeve it. I have one of those on my 100. Later model RGV carbs should be avoided (solenoids etc).

[speedpro]

Use a B9(anything) plug. You can waste money on flash ones but my own personal experience says they don't melt before the piston and they foul up just as quick. My TS used to chew through plugs for some reason even with the same ignition I had/have used on other engines with no problems. No difference on the dyno either, I've checked.

I've used the same 32mm Mikuni roundslide carb for lots of years. It's way big enough. I had a 28mm Keihin semi flatslide on the MB sidecar and it was fine as well. So again from personal experience, anything in that range should be workable. 34mm might be tempting but it's a bit big I think.

Solid mount it, and I mean SOLID. Rebalance the crank, no science involved just press a slug of aluminium into each of the larger holes in each crank wheel. It works, I've done it. I've played with the engine mounting problem as well. Those TSs will vibrate your frame to bits if you don't get it right. If it is free to move at all it will sort of resonate. Tied into the frame it can't

[Bert]

've used the same 32mm Mikuni roundslide carb for lots of years. It's way big enough. .... 34mm might be tempting but it's a bit big I think.
Solid mount it, and I mean SOLID. ..... Those TSs will vibrate your frame to bits if you don't get it right. If it is free to move at all it will sort of resonate. Tied into the frame it can't

Cheers Speedpro & F5dave,
Maybe I should have shared what new engine is in development;
I've got a little TZR125, which is now a TZR100 (photos and the story on its way soon) same as Busa Petes new toy.

Given the comments, solid mounting looks like the solution (at lease a start). So I'll make up some low density nylon bushes and work up from there.

I measured up the RGV carbs; its 33.5 mm? (yes they looked modified), so hummm I might keep looking through the boxes.

Thanks guys

[F5 Dave]

Yeah I remembered what you said you were building & it will vibrate less than the TS fer sure. 33.5 huh? Well it was a 'production' bike & no one ever cheated on those. . .

[jasonu]

[QUOTE=F5 Dave;1129769481]Hi

. . .well I'll let someone deviantly filthy (like Jason) complete the analogy.

What are you trying to say???

[speedpro]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::slap:
33.5 huh? Well it was a 'production' bike & no one ever cheated on those. . .

which planet are you living on?

[F5 Dave]

It's called sarcasm. All the TZR carbs I've had have had a idlejet stuffed in the powerjet rubber hose connecting with float bowl. Don't think that is std & gets around the 5% jetting rule.

[TZ350]

As you are using long plugs, mill the plug recess down by 2-3 mm. Then you can use standard plugs rather than special ones for the life of the motor. If you remove the thermocouple later, replace it with a 2 mm aly washer. Cheers

You can get standard plugs at bargin prices if you buy in bulk from ebay, we got 70, after paying for shipping they worked out at a $1 each.

[F5 Dave]

Some engines like specialised plugs & flash ignitions (timing aside) & some don't seem to give a donkeys, I have some fairly simplistic theories but it comes down to test & test again.

[Bert]

Some engines like specialised plugs & flash ignitions (timing aside) & some don't seem to give a donkeys, I have some fairly simplistic theories but it comes down to test & test again.

I'm hoping this one is a donkey... I've just about finished building my own ignition (with lots of help), The sparkplug discussion is more about dealing with the shape of the current TZR combustion chamber design and the fact that is doesn't suit the requirements now with a smaller bore.

So the head is going to be welded up and reshaped; but I'd like to set the sparkplug further down. so I was looking for the easiest option first (being longer plug as it is going to be welded up anyway). but it looks like machining the top of the plug surface down and running a standard plug is a better option; then run the old fav B9evg's... at lease will reduce one point of potential issue....

[speedpro]

I've reshaped an RGV combustion chamber and got immediate horsepower gains on the dyno. Compression was exactly the same and there were no other modifications. It was close to 10% improvement and improved the spread. Ended up with a nice squish area then a nice radius into an eliptical shaped bowl. Bit of welding involved but well worth it. The EGV plugs are a waste of time in my experience.

[F5 Dave]

Be careful who you get to weld combustion chambers, older cheaper welders just seem to create porosity, something about not being sinusoidal wave, or maybe square, I forget, but the modern ones are the other type from older cheaper ones & have half a chance. The ally used is casting ally with a lot of zinc & it bubbles easily.

EGVs gave no improvement in my H100. But they certainly liked the 50. (Mike think you are talking about the ones that are supposed to melt before detonation & they are EGs I think). But either way I've seen a $150 racing plug give almost a 1 hp on a 50. Big numbers. Tried in my bike it was no better, possibly worse. Glad I didn't have to buy it to find out.

If you can run a cheaper commonly available plug all the better.

[speedpro]

The only bike i ever had a power increase when changing plugs was an old (new then) XS1100 which gained 2hp when i fitted basically standard plugs with a "J" gap. The earth electrode was cut back so it only extended to the centre of the centre electrode.

[speedpro]

I think if a plug change causes a power increase it's probably because the ignition is marginal. The only other possibility is something mechanical like the gap being in the wrong place in the chamber.

[jasonu]

I've reshaped an RGV combustion chamber and got immediate horsepower gains on the dyno. Compression was exactly the same and there were no other modifications. It was close to 10% improvement and improved the spread. Ended up with a nice squish area then a nice radius into an eliptical shaped bowl. Bit of welding involved but well worth it. The EGV plugs are a waste of time in my experience.

I had similar results when fiddleing with dome shapes, squish widths and clearences.

[gatch]

Is there any sense in machining the head right out and pressing in a piece off a suitable grade ally, rather than welding on old castings ? No distortion with heat, no risk of porous welds etc..

I've heard of interchangeable combustion chambers for varying squish etc. Though this may be with water cooled motors only ?

With a pressed in insert, maybe heat exchange between 2 parts would be a problem ?

[F5 Dave]

Is there any sense in machining the head right out and pressing in a piece off a suitable grade ally, rather than welding on old castings ? No distortion with heat, no risk of porous welds etc..

I've heard of interchangeable combustion chambers for varying squish etc. Though this may be with water cooled motors only ?

With a pressed in insert, maybe heat exchange between 2 parts would be a problem ?

I have a head like this on my 500, works fine for watercooled as water flows over insert (& o-ringed). Wouldn't try it for aircooled.

[F5 Dave]

I think if a plug change causes a power increase it's probably because the ignition is marginal. The only other possibility is something mechanical like the gap being in the wrong place in the chamber.
Or the chamber is so shallow it shrouds the spark (sort of your option 2), that is where racing side projection type plugs come into their own.

I've had improvements with EGV plugs where the ignition wasn't marginal, or at least was a good ignition, just it liked the EGVs.

[Bert]

Is there any sense in machining the head right out and pressing in a piece off a suitable grade ally, rather than welding on old castings ? No distortion with heat, no risk of porous welds etc..

I've heard of interchangeable combustion chambers for varying squish etc. Though this may be with water cooled motors only ?

With a pressed in insert, maybe heat exchange between 2 parts would be a problem ?

something like these:

http://www.rscycles.com/images/vhm_products/vhm_heads.htm

yes, wouldn't that be nice; but I don't really have access to the required tools to make something like this.

[gatch]

I have a head like this on my 500, works fine for watercooled as water flows over insert (& o-ringed). Wouldn't try it for aircooled.

Stupid laws of physics..

Just had another though on it.. Because of the poor heat conductance, the inner piece would grow faster than the outer.. Then you might end up with a 3 part head..

[Bert]

Well I am building a water cooled engine, so this could be a good idea. more thinking required.

and stuff the laws of physics; whats the worst that could happen???

[Bert]

double post

[gatch]

Well I am building a water cooled engine, so this could be a good idea. more thinking required.

and stuff the laws of physics; whats the worst that could happen???

If buying the insert wasn't out of the question (ie conflict with "perfomance parts rules, or $$$ conflict", then I dont see that it would be too difficult to machine in a proper bore in the head to accept the squish insert. Or even make an O ring groove if there is room ?

[Bert]

To stay true the rules, maybe just cast and machine the insert?
The porosity is an issue, but in a slow cooling setup should reduce the potential???
more homework required. good excuse to get the furnace out again...

[Bert]

double post again... ?

[TZ350]

and stuff the laws of physics; whats the worst that could happen???

The laws of physics stuff you...........:laugh:.............Interesting project, looking forward to seeing some pic's.........

[koba]

To stay true the rules, maybe just cast and machine the insert?
The porosity is an issue, but in a slow cooling setup should reduce the potential???
more homework required. good excuse to get the furnace out again...

Furnace aye...?

[jasonu]

[QUOTE=F5 Dave;1129772389]Be careful who you get to weld combustion chambers, older cheaper welders just seem to create porosity, something about not being sinusoidal wave, or maybe square, I forget, but the modern ones are the other type from older cheaper ones & have half a chance. The ally used is casting ally with a lot of zinc & it bubbles easily.

Sounds like an excuse for shitty prep and or welding to me. I have welded all sorts of ali castings and never had a fuck up that couldn't be used because I am totally cool!!!!

[Ivan]

No need for rubber mounting if you do a proper job and your engine isn't a 'shaker'. The motor in the pic is totally solid mounted, it runs smooth with no vib problem in the pegs or bars and has never broken or cracked the frame.


Whatis that bike? is it a TZ125????

[Bert]

Whatis that bike? is it a TZ125????

Can't keep up Ivan?
yes mate its now a TZR 99 ish.

I've been a bit of a copycat, very similar build to Busa Petes Yamagama.. (well actually nearly the same).

TZR125 (4DL Italian version) sleeved down to fit a mod'ed RG400 rear piston.
Bore 50, stroke 50.7

water cooled, reed valve..... what more can i say... except i hope it goes....:shit:

[Yow Ling]

If buying the insert wasn't out of the question (ie conflict with "perfomance parts rules, ?

No such rule, check the rule book , there is a rule about competition parts however.

[Bert]

haven't really entered into the grey zone (performance vs aftermarket vs competition) thus far, so why start now.
I find that most of the fun of buckets is the building the bloody things
(though of late that hasn't been that successful, though the old girl was getting, well, old:brick:; good service for 13 of its 15 years), I hope that the new one will last that long.:love:

shitty photo but here we go...

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/album.php?albumid=2701&attachmentid=209457

[jasonu]

Whatis that bike? is it a TZ125????

TZR50 frame with various other stuff attached.

[F5 Dave]

[QUOTE=F5 Dave;1129772389]Be careful who you get to weld combustion chambers, older cheaper welders just seem to create porosity, something about not being sinusoidal wave, or maybe square, I forget, but the modern ones are the other type from older cheaper ones & have half a chance. The ally used is casting ally with a lot of zinc & it bubbles easily.

Sounds like an excuse for shitty prep and or welding to me. I have welded all sorts of ali castings and never had a fuck up that couldn't be used because I am totally cool!!!!

Shit you make me laugh mate. Pity you are too far away for more drinking sessions.

[jasonu]

[QUOTE=jasonu;1129773859]

Shit you make me laugh mate. Pity you are too far away for more drinking sessions.

Come on ofer for a visit. I'll buy the beer!!!

[SS90]

something like these:

http://www.rscycles.com/images/vhm_products/vhm_heads.htm

yes, wouldn't that be nice; but I don't really have access to the required tools to make something like this.

This may sound a little odd, but, if you don't have access to a good lathe set up, believe it or not, you can actually use a Dremel and simply cut your combustion chamber by hand, you just need to make up a template out of flat stiff plastic or aluminium plate, and slowly cut the head out matching it to the template.
It does sound bit rough, but I assure you it does work if you are handy with a Dremel.

Because basic head designs on small engines that produce a good spread of power usually have a squish area somewhere like 60%, it is not too tricky to achieve a satisfactory result, by no way am I saying it is better than using a lathe, but in a pinch, it does work, and plenty of tuners I know have, for various reasons, had to resort to such methods.

[jasonu]

This may sound a little odd, but, if you don't have access to a good lathe set up, believe it or not, you can actually use a Dremel and simply cut your combustion chamber by hand, you just need to make up a template out of flat stiff plastic or aluminium plate, and slowly cut the head out matching it to the template.
It does sound bit rough, but I assure you it does work if you are handy with a Dremel.

Because basic head designs on small engines that produce a good spread of power usually have a squish area somewhere like 60%, it is not too tricky to achieve a satisfactory result, by no way am I saying it is better than using a lathe, but in a pinch, it does work, and plenty of tuners I know have, for various reasons, had to resort to such methods.

Can you say 'COCONUT'?

[SS90]

Can you say 'COCONUT'?
Yea, sure, it's not ideal, but the first head I made for the development cylinder was made by hand, using only a template, and a Dremel (I now have a jig of course). Essentially, all theoretical gains aside, if you have your volume correct, and you squish area is essentially even (all really easy to check), you are going to be be pretty safe.

The first incarnation made over 21 PS, and it still runs today, using a head with a combustion chamber that was made with a Dremel.

I got the idea for the template concept from when I was an apprentice for a Harley dealer way back....you could purchase them as a template to modify your 883 cylinder head to suit a 1200cc conversion using only a dremel.....it worked ok, so I simply adapted the idea for 2 strokes (at the time I had no jig for holding the heads to machine them, and I needed a solution)

In my opinion and experience, if you don't have a lathe, you can make a useable cylinder head for an aircooled two stroke using only a Dremel, a flat piece of Perspex, a graduated syringe (both for ccing the head) and a flat piece of stiff plastic or cardboard (cut to the profile you want to run on your head)

Obviously it is really simple to design and cut out the template from a piece of card or plastic, the only difficult part is to get the finished job as even as possible.

From memory, the finished article has a variation of something like .2mm (so the squish is between 1mm and 1.2mm depending on where you measure it, which luckily enough is larger on the exhaust side, which perhaps could be argued as beneficial, depending on who you talk to).

The power is the same with that original head, or the "series" one we used.

With a central spark plug, and higher compression etc, perhaps it may be measurable, but perhaps not.

"high end" stuff? with out a doubt.

[Buckets4Me]

dont think we have ever used a dremmel to do a head but the idear is sound


just some of the fun we have had

[bucketracer]

.

Where did you find those Pics of Thomas CCing a head? I remember he used brake fluid to make the measurements and a light smear of grease to seal the plastic lid of a take-away container to the head. Anti Freeze would work too, didn't rust anything if it got into the motor, engine oil is to viscous to make good measurements, and would trap air bubbles.

Chambers works out his exact corrected CR by setting the piston just at exhaust closing, CCing the cylinder above the exhaust port, then CCing the clearance volume in the head with the piston at TDC.

[F5 Dave]

your local engineer or engine reconditioner will have a lathe & a few educated guesses will get it sorted fine. If yo own a house & don't intend moving a lathe can be bought for $500. You won't look back.

[speedpro]

I used to have a cheapy 4-5' lathe and it had no end of uses. i too have carved out combustion chambers using a dremel type tool. My McIntosh head is radically altered and I've done a 2-stroke with success as well. If you have plenty of time and patience you can do all sorts. I've even filed back a welded up #2 main crank bearing support on the Z1. Took ages but the end result was perfect.

[Bert]

..........If yo own a house & don't intend moving a lathe can be bought for $500. You won't look back.

its a good point Dave; but i haven't had that much joy finding one local (ish) for ~500 most seem to be too big or to expensive.

[Yow Ling]

if you have 3 phase they are even cheaper, bit too much competition for the single phase ones

[F5 Dave]

Yeah that's true, I was lucky with the 3 phase.

[Bert]

not hard to do a motor conversion though, but you still have to find one.....

[Bert]

another Question

back to primary compression ratio, what is the best way of measuring this? (outside of sitting the motor flat and poring in fluid; measured); is there are trick to this?

does one have to measure the transfer& boost port volumes as part of this ?

I start to re-reading Jennings (but I'm a bit slow on the up take)..

[speedpro]

Going by the number of people I know who have ever measured it and who have a reasonably fast motor I don't think it's worth measuring. Any changes you could make are only going to be marginal, limited by the typical bore and stroke and the typical crankcase configuration.

[SS90]

I have to disagree on that Speedpro.

The opposite is true for my experience. If you are developing one engine only, it is a good idea to find out what you are starting with, because sometimes you find that an engine that is designed for road use, has gains to be made, be they increasing or decreasing the volume.

[jasonu]

I have to disagree on that Speedpro.

The opposite is true for my experience. If you are developing one engine only, it is a good idea to find out what you are starting with, because sometimes you find that an engine that is designed for road use, has gains to be made, be they increasing or decreasing the volume.

Sorry Green, I agree with SS90. If you don't measure the comp ratio you have a huge unknown. Is it too low, too high or just right? Who knows. I used the pack the rings with vaseline pour h20 in and measure method. A Graham Bells Two Stroke Tuners Guide is a good place to find info about this.. TBH Mike, I am a little surprised at what you said, coming from the proud owner of a high performance T bike where the comp ratio is critical.
Just sayin' mate.

[bucketracer]

another Question

back to primary compression ratio, what is the best way of measuring this? (outside of sitting the motor flat and poring in fluid; measured); is there are trick to this?

does one have to measure the transfer& boost port volumes as part of this ?

I start to re-reading Jennings (but I'm a bit slow on the up take)..

The question was "how" not "why" we have our own ideas but would be interested in how others go about this.

[Bert]

Got that one figured out now, I think.
I'll post up some photos when its done to share...

[bucketracer]

.

Photos are always interesting, we eagerly await them, and looking forward to seeing it out on the track.........

[Buckets4Me]

Got that one figured out now, I think.
I'll post up some photos when its done to share...

why wait till it's done
half the fun is showing off what you are doing

[Bert]

why wait till it's done
half the fun is showing off what you are doing

Cause progress is very slow...
But yes, I'll post up a few soon now that things are starting to move along.

[Buckets4Me]

Cause progress is very slow...
But yes, I'll post up a few soon now that things are starting to move along.

progress is always slow unless you have gazillions $ :)

this is what my bike has looked like for 3 months

and all I was doing is the frount engine mount and making the back mount stronger
:)

will try and get it all back together for next week (making sure all bolts are done up . because i will have noone els to blame this time. It's my bike after all and not a borrowed one)

[Henk]

I can lend you some excuses if you feel you need them.

[Bert]

Yes Please....

[Buckets4Me]

Yes Please....

see if you can beat mine :)

as it looks like I'm going under the knife for a 2 year old sholder injury

but it will gove me time to do small things I have been putting off
like a new throtel cable and paint job (those FXR's are looking good so I need to clean the bike up a bit)

any idears what colour I should go for ?
it's going to be polished ally frame and tank

[Henk]

We now have

Orange - Connor
Yellow - Pumba
Green - Un stable
Blue - Me
Purple (call it indigo and Violet) - Michelle

So if you go for a solid red we can pretty much line up the whole rainbow

[Bert]

All this talk in the ESE tread (thanks Wobbly, TZ and others) around porting, pipes and crankcase volume has me a little scared that I've stuffed things up a little with my build...

So my little project started it life off as a TZR125 that we have sleeved down to a 50mm bore (stroke 50.7), we pretty much kept the same shape transfers and exhaust port (some modification to the transfers shape to deal with the smaller bore) but over all we were relativity conservative with the porting this time around. full six petal reed block and VM28 downdraft (or PK28-30 flatslide) carbs.

here's the rubbing
228628

here's the port map with transfer angles into the bore. all ports are flat topped (except the the boost port which is about 60 degrees).
228629

Crank case volumes:
50 bore 50.7 stroke is 99.94, so using the figures of ~305cc for the crankcase volume at TDC & ~205 at BDC, that would be 305/ 205 = ~1.48
some attempt has been made to clean up the ports and match everything up (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/album.php?albumid=2701&attachmentid=228630)

So here is the full porting specs/figures:
228625

So I calculated up the pipe and it looks something like this (with adjustable header), which has been built off a modified RS pipe:
228627

Piston is a round top and I haven't started on the head design yet.

Wobbly has made the comment in the ESE tread that: (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/86554-ESE-s-works-engine-tuner/page217)
In general, high bmep engines that by default will have good port/duct geometry, will like a case com down near 1.3:1, lower performance engines with crap transfer/duct geometry will perform best with the ratio higher, up near 1.4:1.

So rather than grinding to increase volume I should be filling to decrease...

Any thoughts on this?

[F5 Dave]

why does it look like left & right front transfers are different sizes?

Transfers seem quite low. hmm, 38 deg blowdown is quite excessive, that will be quite peaky despite a tame ex port height. I'd be aiming for say 34.

[Bert]

why does it look like left & right front transfers are different sizes?

Transfers seem quite low. hmm, 38 deg blowdown is quite excessive, that will be quite peaky despite a tame ex port height. I'd be aiming for say 34.

I think I distorted the rubbing a little, I'll give it another go once the barrel & Head are back from machining the o'rings. when i measured up the entry angles they were ~ equal size.

as for the transfers heights/blowdown, I wander if that was like that on the 125 barrel for the powervalve? as it shuts off about 6mm of the exhaust height.

[kel]

Hi Bert, buy yourself a copy of port map analyzer http://www.porting-programs.com/analyzer/V3.0/PmapAnalyzerV3.0.html ($23US from memory) it will allow you to compare your time areas form you rubbings plus it will calculate effective changes. Get a copy of Blairs software (pm me for a copy if you dont already have this) to set your motors target BMEP then go back to port map analyzer and work with your time areas until they match, (the biggest problem has proven to be blow down as this has a specific area which also needs to be met) as you know everything needs to work together. My revised timings have come in at 130deg transfers 195deg exhaust (212deg inlet but you dont have to worry about that one)to meet the BMEP and time area requirements.
From memory the TZR125 had a low case compression what with the reed inlet and that ugly crank, Im suprised its so close to 1.5:1.
ps looks like your a lot closer to finishing than I am!

[Bert]

Hi Bert, buy yourself a copy of port map analyzer http://www.porting-programs.com/analyzer/V3.0/PmapAnalyzerV3.0.html ($23US from memory) it will allow you to compare your time areas form you rubbings plus it will calculate effective changes. Get a copy of Blairs software (pm me for a copy if you dont already have this) to set your motors target BMEP then go back to port map analyzer and work with your time areas until they match, (the biggest problem has proven to be blow down as this has a specific area which also needs to be met) as you know everything needs to work together. My revised timings have come in at 130deg transfers 195deg exhaust (212deg inlet but you dont have to worry about that one)to meet the BMEP and time area requirements.
From memory the TZR125 had a low case compression what with the reed inlet and that ugly crank, Im suprised its so close to 1.5:1.
ps looks like your a lot closer to finishing than I am!

Yip I've got a copy of Walter's porting software, nice to use. but it is getting a little beyond me somewhat; even after playing around with two strokes for a number of years, I'm sure it will click at somestage...

Thanks for the advise on the BMEP calcs (I'll have a look through my software downloads I think I have a copy), I'll go and have a play with this. Joys of being on holiday..
tHATS RIGHT THEY WON'T RUN ON VISA....

So what are you building??

[kel]

Im building a Kawasaki KE125. Goal is 30hp at the crank. I stupidly spent money lifting the power on the FXR so finishing the KE has been compromised for the moment.

How about these figures for your TZR based on Blairs calcs for BMEP of 11bar -

power 30hp
BMEP 11bar
swept volume 100cc
engine speed 12500
exhaust time area .0162
blow down time area .00113
transfer time area .0086
inlet time area .0162

Certainly achievable with a water cooled 100 but again the problem will be in the blow down.
The beauty of 125cc displacement allows the same power at 9 bar and 11500 rpm!

[kel]

So what are you building??
Here it is, plenty still to do.

229011

[F5 Dave]

Certainly is. Probably enough for a whole 'nother thread. I'd consider raising the front sprocket so you don't get a pronounced pro squat effect. I'm not psychic, but trust me.

[kel]

I'd consider raising the front sprocket so you don't get a pronounced pro squat effect. I'm not psychic, but trust me.

Hmm, so you recognise the chassis? Thought it was quite well disguised being so stripped down.

[F5 Dave]

Recognised & ridden

[jasonu]

Here it is, plenty still to do.

229011

What a heap of shit. You must be a real wanker to have brought that...

[F5 Dave]

I hear everyone who touches it turns ghey as it was created by a master poofta & his dodgy accomplice.

[jasonu]

Certainly is. Probably enough for a whole 'nother thread. I'd consider raising the front sprocket so you don't get a pronounced pro squat effect. I'm not psychic, but trust me.

If it were me I would use the biggest front/rear sprocket combination I could find. That will move the chain run away from the swingarm pivot.

Good luck with it mate. I am looking forward to seeing it out there again.

[jasonu]

I hear everyone who touches it turns ghey as it was created by a master poofta & his dodgy accomplice.

You should know, you rubbed your genitalia on it several times.

[F5 Dave]

and strangely I find myself watching cooking programs.

Frame will be man enough for the job, A bigger front spkt may be all required, but a tilt forward should raise the sproket enough to make a pronounced effect

[jasonu]

and strangely I find myself watching cooking programs.

Frame will be man enough for the job, A bigger front spkt may be all required, but a tilt forward should raise the sproket enough to make a pronounced effect

agreed
atleast 10 characters

[Bert]

Silly question one:

I’m struggling to get one of my main bearings off the crank.
I can’t get a puller behind the bearing face. I’ve tried to freeze it and tap it free (but no luck).
I’m about out of ideas on this (don’t want to destroy it).

any other ideas or plans? or is it best to take it to a shop?

Silly question two:
Also, Was thinking about turning down a 420 front sprocket to a 415 (as I have heaps of chains and rear sprockets now). The idea whas to put the entire main shaft in the lathe and turn away the teeth and seat; then round things off again.
I'd be keen to talk to anyone that has attempted this? before i make a meal of it.
(P.S. I can't find a 415 front sprocket that suits the silly spline on my yamaha).

Cheers
Brent

[ac3_snow]

here's the port map with transfer angles into the bore. all ports are flat topped (except the the boost port which is about 60 degrees).
228629


just taking a step backwards for a moment. That looks like a big exhaust port and with a 50mm bore whichever way you measure it is above 75%...
Also in this pic the exhaust width is either 40mm or 38mm depending on how you measure, which is the correct measurement?

[Bert]

just taking a step backwards for a moment. That looks like a big exhaust port and with a 50mm bore whichever way you measure it is above 75%...
Also in this pic the exhaust width is either 40mm or 38mm depending on how you measure, which is the correct measurement?

40mm is the Arc length
38mm is the chord length

(38/50)= 0.76 or 76% of bore. I assume my maths is correct here (back to jennings for another read)
yes its big :shit: but i guess we will see how badly it all turns to sh!t...

[speedpro]

I thinned a 428 sprocket to 420 recently using a linisher (spelling?). Worked fine and didn't take too long. It's easy enough to get good enough. Only remove material from one side.

Flat top ports are not ideal, check the ESE thread. The exhaust is going to need a curve on the top, so if you keep the same max height you will end up with less exhaust time/area and less blowdown. The width really is on the edge of what's acceptable so you will have to be careful.

[bucketracer]

I’m struggling to get one of my main bearings off the crank.

We use tire levers, put the curved end of the leavers under the edges of the brg and leaver it up, works a treat.

[Yow Ling]

We use tire levers, put the curved end of the leavers under the edge of the brg and leaver it up, works a treat.

I use a bearing splitter , and give it a squish with a hyd press

[koba]

I use a bearing splitter , and give it a squish with a hyd press

I couldn't afford one so made one, it was just mild steel so is a bit ragged now but I can regrind the face every now and then and that keeps it going. Not that I need to now that my brother bought a proper one...

[gatch]

Hammer and cold chisel maaaaaaaaaaaaaate.

Off topic I know but..

I have seen sledge hammers being used on big diameter bearings.. I died a little when I saw it.

[F5 Dave]

yeah 420 to 415. Easier on the ally sprockets. Front steel ones are hard as hell so I;ve paid someone to do it. Just do one side as Mike sez, but do radius the edges of the teeth again or it will do bad things, or at best make a terrible noise. Think my bearing remover was $70

[Bert]

My God its nearly a year; but we have an aim to have it all finished so I can race it at the GP.

The story thus far (for those that don't want to go back over older posts).

The Engine:
TZR125 4DL sleeved down to 50mm running YZ100 pistons (not ideal but after destroying a couple of RG400 pistons to deal with the larger 16mm pin, i had to do something).
cleaned up the ports (still need work but for now its rough enough to get things going); the lack of skill and the real tools to completely sort out the transfers is the real hold-up here; but it will just have to do this time around.

Griffiths engineering Palmy made a fantastic job on my inserted head & o-rings (using the standard head) and using one of my KTM125 inserts as a guide/template (before anyone else asks). Still need to cut the squish and combustion chamber into the blank once the entire motor is back together. Also some work has been done on my crank/casings to enable the use of normal 17mm width main bearings (yamaha uses these stupid 16mm ones that are gold... well cost the same as:shit:) there is a little more to this story but it too boring to full you all in on now... I really Thank Dave G for his patients on this (lucky he is an ex-bucket racer from way back and thinks this is all a little nuts).

Exhaust:
Modified RS125 nearly meets my basic calculations using a combination of MacDizzy/mota/jennings and even Bell (those with the fancy software will surely tell me I've cocked this up... if you are willing to help let me know; I'm completely stumped now). I've been loving the information that Frits Overmars, TZ350, Wobbly & Speedpro (and other) have been contributing to the ESE tread (that really is turning into god mine) and I've been re-reading the key elements relating to porting and exhaust design (please keep it up).

Electrics:
Ignitech (thanks Wobbly), standard rotor for the mean time; probably going to be total loss until i get my charging circuit and light weight rotor sorted).

Carb:
wont really know until its all back together but have options from 28mm-36mm (think I'll be starting with the 28 and seeing how she runs).

Rolling Frame:
well the cats is out of the bag on this one... Crazy Man (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/145224-Race-chassis?p=1130228498#post1130228498) has been building a TZR250F3/TZR100F4 work of art, it is F##Ken gorgeous in my eyes:niceone: every time I've seen it I'm amazed with the quality of the workmanship; this is based around a RS125- forks/swingarm&Shock/wheels (shit that has been sourced cheap over the years).
the motors can be swapped out relatively quickly; this is still work in progress.


So there you go; we have a little to do like get the motor back together and sort out the Carbs and final'ish pipe & get the ignitech up an running; sort out the tank (and fairing for the TZR250F3 and GP version maybe) and nylon it up. the question is; is two months long enough to get it sorted for the GP?????? time will tell but I'm getting all pumped up now for the first time in ages...:eek:

here's a few photos to sort of show the fore mentioned progress (please don't take them as the finished product rather work in progress shots I haven't got that many of the more up to date engine progress).

More to come no doubt or hopefully I'll see some of you at the GP.

[Brian d marge]

looking good , be very interested in how it goes

Stephen

[jasonu]

What tubeing is that very nice frame made from?

[Kendog]

Great update, can't wait to see it in action.
Now that you other little project is completed you should have plenty of time to finish :innocent:

[Bert]

What tubeing is that very nice frame made from?

Not 100% sure (its thin wall steel tube) type? no idea sorry, that's "Crazy Man" speciality.
She's light though; it is approximately the same as my 1995 TZ125 4Jt frame (+/-0.5 kgs)..

The great thing here is that none of the GP running gear has been modified to do this; so maybe (and it will work); there is another option rather than cutting up GP bikes.
Take GP bike the running gear off, build a frame, bucket race it, get sick of it and put the GP bike back together and preserve some racing history rather than loosing it...
food for thought.:innocent:


Great update, can't wait to see it in action.
Now that you other little project is completed you should have plenty of time to finish :innocent:

heeehee Nothing like a planning wedding to slow down bike building progress... shes all go now though.

[F5 Dave]

Waaheyhey. Lookin good. a little too good. Will be good to see you with a hopefully reliable bike to race.

oh yeah congratulations btw.

[TZ350]

Looking good Bert ....

[Rick 52]

Take GP bike the running gear off, build a frame, bucket race it, get sick of it and put the GP bike back together and preserve some racing history rather than loosing it...
food for thought.:innocent:


Looking great !! I have just been looking at putting a CBR 150 into a RS but would have to cut it and I just carn't do it ! They are way to nice to be buggered up ...

[richban]

Looking great !! I have just been looking at putting a CBR 150 into a RS but would have to cut it and I just carn't do it ! They are way to nice to be buggered up ...


Seems that there are lots of builds on the go at the mo. Just get one of these Rick. Plenty of room. Frame, Forks, Front and rear Suspension bolted up 23kg. With the FXR engine and RS wheels it should be 85 ish. The small wheels will look a little lonely with the big swing arm but the rest should look great. Planning on running RS250 fairings.

[Tard]

Sure is a lot of effort going into building/engineering what'll be some priiidddy bikes when they're finished...respect :yes:

[Bert]

Seems that there are lots of builds on the go at the mo. Just get one of these Rick. Plenty of room. Frame, Forks, Front and rear Suspension bolted up 23kg. With the FXR engine and RS wheels it should be 85 ish. The small wheels will look a little lonely with the big swing arm but the rest should look great. Planning on running RS250 fairings.

Nice one Brother... see, you will have it done by the GP.

you might actually be surprised about the wheels as the originals weren't that much bigger (other than the hub). one word solution: hugger...

you just need one of my flash ass RS fairings and seat set...:innocent::yes::yes:



Progress Update:
Well; Dr Crazy Man has been busy. motor is in, pipe is fitted, tank is hidden under the tank shell and radiator is nearly there.:yes:

I'm still awaiting new rod to put the motor back together, bars & mastercylinders (as I keep selling them), rear brake & coil (on its way)...:sweatdrop

Some more specs:
Rake 24 degrees.
wheelbase 1320mm.

[Bert]

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::w oohoo:
Had to share...

A Big THANK YOU to Crazyman for a job well done (I'm stoked).


Its a bit over the top (for a bucket) with it's 250 fairing kit on it, but hay what the hell looks flash for photos....

So, its migrated from workshop to its new home; for a weekend of bolting it completely together and moving onto phase two (painting and engine). :yes:

[Moooools]

:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::woohoo::w oohoo:
Had to share...

A Big THANK YOU to Crazyman for a job well done (I'm stoked).


Its a bit over the top (for a bucket) with it's 250 fairing kit on it, but hay what the hell looks flash for photos....

So, its migrated from workshop to its new home; for a weekend of bolting it completely together and moving onto phase two (painting and engine). :yes:

Straight swaps for a standard CB125 single?

[sidwyz]

Bert,
Great job really looks the part!!
Def not over the top, just higher than most have gone thus far.

So we going to see this thing at taupo in march?

Looking at how buckets have grown the last 4 years, im sure there are more to come looking like yours in the next 18months.

I think this is great for our class carry on boys and girls.

[Bert]

Bert,
Great job really looks the part!!
Def not over the top, just higher than most have gone thus far.

So we going to see this thing at taupo in march?

Looking at how buckets have grown the last 4 years, im sure there are more to come looking like yours in the next 18months.

I think this is great for our class carry on boys and girls.

I HOPE to be at Taupo in March. As long as we can get it all tuned up alright by then (I'm not going to ride another half assed tuned bike, I've let myself down at few GPs).
The timeline is quite tight (and I've got to fit in a honeymoon as well:facepalm:)...


Straight swaps for a standard CB125 single?
Only two four strokes in my shed mate; Stinky the sidecar and a ZXR250 for shits and giggles (something about 20,000 RMP:weird:)..



Having started buckets back in the end of the "good old days"; I have always believed that this is one of the best road racing classes available.

As for looking flash; I guess I've always been a little prone to bling'ing things up. Sequence starts 1995 (as a spotty teenager:laugh:).

[Ivan]

Looking really good man

[crazy man]

(that looks like leroys old 50 the purple framed bike.. it that a super charger on that white new bike (-;

[jasonu]

I HOPE to be at Taupo in March. As long as we can get it all tuned up alright by then (I'm not going to ride another half assed tuned bike, I've let myself down at few GPs).
The timeline is quite tight (and I've got to fit in a honeymoon as well:facepalm:)...


Only two four strokes in my shed mate; Stinky the sidecar and a ZXR250 for shits and giggles (something about 20,000 RMP:weird:)..



Having started buckets back in the end of the "good old days"; I have always believed that this is one of the best road racing classes available.

As for looking flash; I guess I've always been a little prone to bling'ing things up. Sequence starts 1995 (as a spotty teenager:laugh:).

You look familiar. Did you come up to Mt Welli for the 2hr with Trustrum in the mid 90's???

[Bert]

You look familiar. Did you come up to Mt Welli for the 2hr with Trustrum in the mid 90's???
I wish. never made it to auckland until 97/98-01 (to live for a little while), only did a couple of meetings over that time.


(that looks like leroys old 50 the purple framed bike.. it that a super charger on that white new bike (-;

I think it was his frame; I butchered my TF into it..best bucket I ever had until now..
You got good eyes... :shit:

(SUNDAY)It raining so no landscaping today:

photo one/two the weigh in: 58.5kgs (dry, less the crank and gearbox) and watery/oily stuff.
and some progress on the paint side of things. decided on the old school RZ look I think... frame should stand out in red, me thinks.



(Monday UPDATE): and it does look stunning with a red frame; sorry for stealing your idea CrazyMan.

(last pic) the ideal finished product...:innocent:....The fairings....

[gav]

So whats that body kit you are using, Bert? Is it TZ250? Looks really good!

[crazy man]

I wish. never made it to auckland until 97/98-01 (to live for a little while), only did a couple of meetings over that time.



I think it was his frame; I butchered my TF into it..best bucket I ever had until now..
You got good eyes... :shit:

It raining so no landscaping today:

photo one/two the weigh in: (dry - the crank and gearbox) and watery/oily stuff.
and some progress on the paint side of things. decided on the old school RZ look I think... frame should stand out in red, me thinks.looks like a finsh weight will be around 70kgs! l wonder if the 250 will only hit the 80 kgs mark?!?

[Bert]

So whats that body kit you are using, Bert? Is it TZ250? Looks really good!

Hi Gav. Its a RS250 kit. Not the most amazing finish on it; but for the price (cheap) who cares; its not a show bike.



looks like a finsh weight will be around 70kgs! l wonder if the 250 will only hit the 80 kgs mark?!?

let hope we can get the 250cc below 80kgs; with the superdopper barrels it might be a weapon in the right hands (not mine:pinch::facepalm:)...

[F5 Dave]

You look familiar. Did you come up to Mt Welli for the 2hr with Trustrum in the mid 90's???
You're thinking of Laurie, he'd be somewhat older now.

Looks good.

[Bert]

Another week down (and down the drain due to old man's all day&night 60th) but some progress has been achieved.

frame is finished and it is slowly going back together (seat&tank have been primed ready for paint).
Ignitech loom built (thanks Wobbly for the great advice); exhaust temperature device all assembled.

But still looking for a rear calliper? dos anyone know what other model has the same rear brake as a RS125 nx4? MC18? RS250? (little single pot)

new radiator (CBR150 oversize; light as, half the weight of the KR one used for mock-up & weigh in) arrived today :)

[crazy man]

Another week down (and down the drain due to old man's all day&night 60th) but some progress has been achieved.

frame is finished and it is slowly going back together (seat&tank have been primed ready for paint).
Ignitech loom built (thanks Wobbly for the great advice); exhaust temperature device all assembled.

But still looking for a rear calliper? dos anyone know what over model has the same rear brake? MC18? RS250? (little single pot)

new radiator (CBR150 oversize; light as, half the weight of the KR one used for mock-up) arrived today :)did you miss out on the brake. think the one on ebay finshed yesterday

[crazy man]

the primer yellow goes good with red

[Bert]

did you miss out on the brake. think the one on ebay finshed yesterday

yip missed out on all three that i was watching; just couldn't keep my eyes open late enough last night...:facepalm::cry:


the primer yellow goes good with red

:shit: it would certainly stand out:facepalm:

[Pumba]

:shit: it would certainly stand out:facepalm:

You might give me a run for my money.

Fuck that frame looks horny in the red (actually it wasn't bad as bare metal either). Cant wait to see it in the flesh

[husaberg]

Another week down (and down the drain due to old man's all day&night 60th) but some progress has been achieved.

frame is finished and it is slowly going back together (seat&tank have been primed ready for paint).
Ignitech loom built (thanks Wobbly for the great advice); exhaust temperature device all assembled.

But still looking for a rear calliper? dos anyone know what other model has the same rear brake as a RS125 nx4? MC18? RS250? (little single pot)

new radiator (CBR150 oversize; light as, half the weight of the KR one used for mock-up & weigh in) arrived today :)

Crazy has the same question (For Bert I guess)i wish i had a more complete answer. but I know from a board somewhere a CR80 rear disk can be adapted with a little filing.
I had a basic look based on the seals and dust seals for the rear caliper.
It is not a total solution but i think it can work with a little effort (i believe the caliper will be a small scooter front like a DJ1 or similar.)
but here is what i found. As the seals and so are the same the pistons should be as well. Obviously the fixed vs floating will need work.

THe DJ1 was a floating caliper much like this one 3rd attached as it had a link front end this one looks like it could be adapted easily.
http://www.cmsnl.com/honda-nh90-lead-1993-spain_model3522/partslist/F__0900.html

[Bert]

That's a great starting point; I'll go on a bit of a hunt.
I was thinking if something like a NSR50/ns-1 etc might share the same unit...

Anyway the mockup is all nearly finished (all the little brackets, battery box, loom are complete. just need to finish the painting this weekend while waiting for parts)....
now it time to finish off the motor; starting to sound like Dave's "will i finish in time for the GP" thread...:bleh:

White is a stupid colour; it show every bloody finger print...

[husaberg]

That's a great starting point; I'll go on a bit of a hunt.
I was thinking if something like a NSR50/ns-1 etc might share the same unit...

Anyway the mockup is all nearly finished (all the little brackets, battery box, loom are complete.
now it time to finish off the motor; starting to sound like Dave's "will i finish in time for the GP" thread...:bleh:

Those Benly DOHC 50 possibly do. Not that that will help much:eek:

Right you are i was getting there slowly. Here is the rear of the NSR50/80


The other one is the MD80 Moriwaki I am pretty sure it had a striped NS1 frame chassis.
I haven't had time to compare all the numbers but they all look like they could work with a large enough Hammer.

http://www.rscycles.com/pdf_partsbooks.htm

[crazy man]

That's a great starting point; I'll go on a bit of a hunt.
I was thinking if something like a NSR50/ns-1 etc might share the same unit...

Anyway the mockup is all nearly finished (all the little brackets, battery box, loom are complete. just need to finish the painting this weekend while waiting for parts)....
now it time to finish off the motor; starting to sound like Dave's "will i finish in time for the GP" thread...:bleh:

White is a stupid colour; it show every bloody finger print...its a order you have to finsh it . you know l started after you right!?!?

[fi5hy]

That's a great starting point; I'll go on a bit of a hunt.
I was thinking if something like a NSR50/ns-1 etc might share the same unit...

Anyway the mockup is all nearly finished (all the little brackets, battery box, loom are complete. just need to finish the painting this weekend while waiting for parts)....
now it time to finish off the motor; starting to sound like Dave's "will i finish in time for the GP" thread...:bleh:

White is a stupid colour; it show every bloody finger print...

You make it to one of our rounds before May and you might take home the prize for best presented bucket.

[Moooools]

You make it to one of our rounds before May and you might take home the prize for best presented bucket.

I hear the guy who won that last year is super cool. (But didn't have a bike nearly that pretty)

[Kendog]

You make it to one of our rounds before May and you might take home the prize for best presented bucket.
Easy, that is one hot looking bucket.

[Bert]

its a order you have to finsh it . you know l started after you right!?!?

Don't forget you are waiting for parts from me...:innocent::confused:


You make it to one of our rounds before May and you might take home the prize for best presented bucket.

I'd have to cover the bloody thing up with 10kgs of Nylon to protect the track..
But the Focus after the bucket GP is to finish off the F3 250 motor for the winter series (as that is really what it was built for).

[Moooools]

Don't forget you are waiting for parts from me...:innocent::confused:



I'd have to cover the bloody thing up with 10kgs of Nylon to protect the track..
But the Focus after the bucket GP is to finish off the F3 250 motor for the winter series (as that is really what it was built for).

Use Black Acetal. 40mm round stock. 24mm bore down the centre with a 45 degree taper on the outside edge. Then it will still look puurdy. And very hard wearing too.

[Buckets4Me]

starting to sound like Dave's "will i finish in time for the GP" thread...:bleh:



it was will i get my 100 ready for in time for Taupo?

well the Trrs dosen't run anymore so if you make it you will have beaten Dave by several years :shit:

[F5 Dave]

hey I made it to Taupo last year, Berts build isn't newer than my thread. .

looking good thou.

[Bert]

..... Berts build isn't newer than my thread. .

shhhh Dave!! your not spose to tell people how long this project has really been going for....
But yes life & time has slipped by; with very little progress until CrazyMan (& Crazy Senior) stepped in a really helped me out (which they probably both regret now:facepalm:)...

[crazy man]

hey I made it to Taupo last year, Berts build isn't newer than my thread. .

looking good thou.with what i'v seen its restarted it self 3 times

[crazy man]

shhhh Dave!! your not spose to tell people how long this project has really been going for....
But yes life & time has slipped by; with very little progress until CrazyMan (& Crazy Senior) stepped in a really helped me out (which they probably both regret now:facepalm:)...no regret you just have to lap the feild twice like you said ;-) lol

[husaberg]

That's a great starting point; I'll go on a bit of a hunt.
I was thinking if something like a NSR50/ns-1 etc might share the same unit...


Had a look at a ebay search i had saved today surprise surprise
What did i see.
NH50 and the RS125 87-94 can use the same pads.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/BRAKE-PAD-HONDA-NH50-NH80-R80-NS125-RS125-KYMCO-SYM-/370318797656?pt=AU_Motorcycle_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5638b86b58
Well most of the leads NH's are Drum
but i have seen Lead 80ss with tiny disks and calipers. I think they are even 3 hole mounting for the disk if my memory serves me correct approx 170mm dia disk.

something like this also may be possible. Shit i actually need one myself now.
I will probably mod my sons KTM50 complee with slave cylinder to fit we will "Share it"

I see metal gear has update its website it now has a search by size or stud spacing PCD etc function. So is perfect for cross referencing.
http://metalgear.com.au/search_by_disc_measurements.php?user1=140&user2=&user3=&user4=&user5=&user6=&user8=&search_measurements=Find+Discs

This is the one i have generally used in the past.
http://www.moto-master.com/productnow.php#

[Bert]

One less excuse:
(EBAY via Poland; 1 week... my god that's faster than the local shop can sort something out by nearly a year)..

258260

So all I need to do is resolve the rear brake issue and hopefully we will be away.:clap:

:wait: 3 years..... :drool:

258264

[Ivan]

jesus bert thats unbeleivable its so nice actually looks like a proper gp bike!!!!!!

[crazy man]

jesus bert thats unbeleivable its so nice actually looks like a proper gp bike!!!!!!you must be near finsh with your hum diner of a machinm

[Ivan]

not really a few things to go getting close tho! still have to mount motor and make peg hangers etc

[crazy man]

not really a few things to go getting close tho! still have to mount motor and make peg hangers etcbetter get your ass into gear ! l may of over taking you lol

[Ivan]

better get your ass into gear ! l may of over taking you lol

does measuring the seat height put me back in the lead

[crazy man]

does measuring the seat height put me back in the leadnope but putting your motor in mite ! but you have only 20 hours to do that he he and drink around 3 10% whiskys may just pull it of

[Ivan]

nope but putting your motor in mite ! but you have only 20 hours to do that he he and drink around 3 10% whiskys may just pull it of

im screwed then i dont have access to the workshop for a while to lathe up the engine mounts

[crazy man]

im screwed then i dont have access to the workshop for a while to lathe up the engine mountsdont use (lath up) machine up! you will sound that much more on to it (-:

[Henk]

dont use (lath up) machine up! you will sound that much more on to it (-:

Turn up may also work.

[crazy man]

Turn up may also work.that will help but you may not like what you see

http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/30/206967530_full.jpg

[Bert]

that will help but you may not like what you see

http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/30/206967530_full.jpg

The new go fast carb for the f project. Good old anals...

[Kendog]

:wait: 3 years..... :drool:
That looks awesome!!!!!

But the big question is, do you remember how to race?

[Bert]

That looks awesome!!!!!

But the big question is, do you remember how to race?

Nope; (could I ever??)
but Rich & Crazy have been giving little pointers; something along the lines of "Stop being a soft cock and open the bloody throttle"... :killingme

I recall that it nearly didn't work out well last time aye Mr F5dave...

[crazy man]

here is a pic of my bucket god knows how to add the pic through KB )-: started it on about the 4th of this month

http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/41/207517041_full.jpg

[F5 Dave]

You just use manage attachments button in advanced reply & upload it from your PC.


Looks good, but seems to have slipped 4 stroke in it by mistake.

[crazy man]

258646258647ok thats see if this worked

[crazy man]

thanks dave l did it lol just got to remember how to do it. just made the exhaust today

[F5 Dave]

Looks like it will be ready for shake-down @ Kaitoke, erm think 18th March next, or GP if serious, or 7, 8th Easter Kaitoke 2 dayer.:niceone:

[crazy man]

Looks like it will be ready for shake-down @ Kaitoke, erm think 18th March next, or GP if serious, or 7, 8th Easter Kaitoke 2 dayer.:niceone:l'm planning on the gp but taking it to Kaitoke is a good idea to test it out

[Ivan]

i love that exhaust think i might steal the idea for myne! closest I got is sitting my motor in the frame need to make a new swing arm

[crazy man]

i love that exhaust think i might steal the idea for myne! closest I got is sitting my motor in the frame need to make a new swing arml need to make a swing arm to just put this spear one in for the gp. may run out of time! the front end is coming out to and the wheels after it but have some very nice replacement for it

[Ivan]

ill hopefully build my proper front end up over next few weeks and have the motor fully mounted

[crazy man]

ill hopefully build my proper front end up over next few weeks and have the motor fully mountedgood stuff l tryed to make the exhaurt like the 2004 honda motogp bike. it has a reverse cone with bafling in it

[Ivan]

good stuff l tryed to make the exhaurt like the 2004 honda motogp bike. it has a reverse cone with bafling in it

looks so nice,full moto3 bike there haha looking at yours makes me want to finish myne even more

[Rick 52]

Looking good ..that is a nice pipe .

[crazy man]

thanks guys:cool: hope it goes as good as it looks lol

[crazy man]

258689the brother shaging the bike lol:nono:

[Bert]

thanks guys:cool: hope it goes as good as it looks lol

Another stunning CrazyFrame; they taking over :msn-wink:

As long as it looks good who cares...:niceone:

Its a 4t anyway so you know it will last the distance. :dodge:

[worm13]

Looking good ..that is a nice pipe .

you should of seen how maori it was 2 hours before the picture was taken

[worm13]

258689the brother shaging the bike lol:nono:

Is he trying to sit on the other pipe between strokes?? always knew he was a 2 stroke fan:bleh:

[crazy man]

you should of seen how maori it was 2 hours before the picture was takenthanks for that you just stick to your condoms@$#$ are no slipons

[crazy man]

Another stunning CrazyFrame; they taking over :msn-wink:

As long as it looks good who cares...:niceone:

Its a 4t anyway so you know it will last the distance. :dodge:that is the idea to go the distances snail speed

[Ivan]

this motivates me even more to get myne finished

[Bert]

Crayman; Hows the progress going on the GPR150?? I trust the gpr100 is finished ;)

:drinknsin
Right back to my weight loss program drinking and sweating on the beach.

[crazy man]

Crayman; Hows the progress going on the GPR150?? I trust the gpr100 is finished ;)

:drinknsin
Right back to my weight loss program drinking and sweating on the beach.your bike looks so cool its not funny! only little things to go now. would post a pic but the old man must of taken the camera with him

[crazy man]

259930259931259933

team GPR. 100 and 150

[Bert]

259930259931259933

team GPR. 100 and 150


Love it.... :woohoo:

Far to flash..

[jasonu]

259930259931259933

team GPR. 100 and 150

By far the best looking and best thought out hand made buckets I have seen. (although it is a shame to see one wasted on a harley motor...)

[F5 Dave]

Bert buddy, you should have flown home early & gotten some tuning runs at kaitoke yesterday. Hope it sparks up well enough for the weekend.

[Bert]

Bert buddy, you should have flown home early & gotten some tuning runs at kaitoke yesterday. Hope it sparks up well enough for the weekend.

Yes, well... I think divorce would have been on the cards if I did that.

Anyway; Crazyman has preformed his magic while I was away and it all looks flash.

we got the ignitech on today and now have spark (a little more work to do on that). so tomorrow its time to get some gas in her and fire it up.
Might actually make it to the GP2012... :gob: first time in three years...:facepalm:

[Bert]

It lives:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:

[crazy man]

It lives:woohoo::woohoo::woohoo:well done! .not to bad timing to but have you got the motor running the right way (-;

[crazy man]

hopefully next year will be alot better only could get the bike into 4 gear with the gearing. some time on the dyno will help as well and berts bike . glad to put names on here with faces . may have a go myself in a meeting or two if my body is up to it

[Bert]

I have to say; early Friday morning (1am) I was think of flagging it as things weren't going back together very well);
the bike was spread around the shed after stripping the motor having forgotten a ball bearing in the clutch unit)..

Well; Crazyman, Regan and myself got both bikes running the Friday before the GP a couple of quick runs up the road declared it was well better prepared than some other GPs in the past. Packed and drove up.

Saturday:
Well it was a day of plug chops chasing Jetting and carb issues (the afternoon could not stop my PWK from pissing petrol everywhere). F5dave lent me a spare carb but alas suffered the same issue.
The engine ran surprisingly well when it was not filling with Gas; even with the powervalve locked 180 degrees for open:facepalm:
Big thanks to SteveB for the rear brake pads without them it was a no go.

Sunday:
Resorted to a old TZR carb after the first race that was sitting in bits in an emergency parts box (we managed to find most of the required bits; including a maori airjet care of Rich). no time for Jetting just ran the largest Jet I had...
GP; well rather worried about full throttle and melting stuff; I made the call after a four or five laps that just finishing was going to be an achievement (so I buttoned off).
So if I held you up I'm sorry (I tried to keep well out of everyone's way). Chequered Flag meant that I'd finally finished my first GP since 1999 :wacko:(all be it second to last but one of the few two strokes).

Looking Forward:
The motor felt good (with potential) so I'm looking forward to some testing with a more "racer" combustion chamber volume, working Powervalve (at least 180 degrees in the right direction) and a sorted 32mm Carb. which I hope to sort out this week before Easter (just waiting on a few more bits to arrive so it can be done namely the extra pins for the igntech plug which I somehow lost).
The Bike and handling; my god, I ridden a fair number of bikes over the years (buckets, 250, 600 & road bikes etc) none compare to the crazy frame in terms of how it handles esp mid corner (far better bike than I can ride at the moment; good excuse to ride more and get some race fitness again).. Its going to be a barrel of laughs with the 250 in it.

It was great to see old faces again (its been a couple of years); Rob, Mike, Dave etc. it was great to catch-up.

Crazyman, Crazydad (Dave G) and Regan (Team GPR); thanks for the help and patients with me over the weekend; and especially the amazing work done leading up the weekend to get the bike finished while I was off sunning myself on an Island.

[speedpro]

I wasn't alone in being impressed with your bike. Very very nice work.

[Bert]

I guess I'm now migrating this tread to a more; "how things are now progressing"

Firstly a big THANKS to Steve and Skunk for another great two day event.

So the Second Run.

Saturday:
Grand plans of having things sorted by Easter went out the window with going back to work; (and wanting to let Crazyman get onto his own projects without me in his ear with more silly ideas).
So I concluded that $60 for the weekend was still cheaper than dyno time (and the free advice was great too).... I arrived with a boot load of carbs (and what I though was enough jets to sink a battleship); folly.. The day was really spent chasing what I though was running too rich, starting with a 230 main dropping/stepping to a 150 main and thicker needle (it wasn't until near the end of the day with Rich Ban holding his hand over the back of the (TZR250 Mikuni 28mm) Carb did we come to the conclusion that Lean was the issue not running rich; piss poor plug chops didn't help the days progress). So back to original needle and 250 main and nearly spot on (a little flat in the mid range). Just in time for qualifying; a piss poor tenth was as good as I could muster.

Sunday:
Well started the day with a running bike; so now it was time to actually learn to race again (Its been awhile).
Running well'ish non points race so attempted another plug chop and stopped early. bike stuttered every lap through the pit corner (I'll come back to this).
next race, Started at the back as it seems no one can actually read the grid board. good start up into mid pack then lost my gear linkage:pinch: but lets say the starts and turn one are rather, well F##Ken nuts (I had forgotten that bucket racers show no mercy at starts. I believe the quote of the day was pin-ball or holeshots... some rather interesting marks on my new paint job.:killingme
15 laper; well got halfway through and the old arms gave in a bit and then the brain froze while attempting to do another around the outside pass on turn four, full front lockup across the grass and into the hoardings/wall; then rejoined to finish off the race and the day (no damage other than pride).
Seems as it going; a few others took it out so I could see what it looked like :corn: and it look smart.


Thanks to F5Dave for answering the endless silly questions and sharing your Jets. TZ (Rob) for you help esp. jet drills. Rich to pointing me in the right direction again.. Henk and Michelle for their special light hearted feedback on sat that kept me motivated. also it was really great to see everyone else that I've not caught up with for a while.


The aftermath:
firstly the stutter; opps i left the 12k limiter on the Ignitech dumbass...:brick:

Approximately 3 hours running now so I pulled the head off again tonight to inspect things: No major scuffs on the piston or bore (even with running lean). no real burn marks on the piston edges or silvery bits or signs of det. We are running a larger volume combustion chamber (lets call it a endurance profile); but all of this is a good sign that the combination of bits are working together and the build is heading in the right direction. Working powervalve and some carb work should clean-up the low-mid range; (pipe mods and new combustion chamber should give a little more top end). but for now its good enough for me to get some time back in the seat and sort out my part of the equation (need more fitness).

Odd burn pattern on the head (not quite a butterfly; esp at the transfers).

[Henk]

Awesome toy you have there, looks bloody awesome, handles brilliantly, a bit more midrange and it'll be an absolute weapon.
Thanks for letting me take it out for a few laps.

[crazy man]

pulled out the half finshed centre hub steering bike . looks like the honda 125 twin will go into it (looks the best)

[Bert]

pulled out the half finshed centre hub steering bike . looks like the honda 125 twin will go into it (looks the best)

the GT.. the GT..:love:

So are you going to build a crazyman framed centre hub steering bike?? Roll over Elf Yamaha.
I better sort out those pistons then...


Third outing:

Well after getting up at some un-earthly hour on sunday morning I was lucky enough to share a van trip down with Crazyman and Regan for another day in sunny Wellington.

Made a wee opps at the start of the day by parking the van in the wrong car park?? while unloading, we suffered a very heated Kart'er dad yelling and swearing (actually right in my face) regarding his park (he must have got close to fisties before I could even apologise and explain we were out of town'ers :facepalm:); fortuitously another kart'er saw what was happening and stepped in too resolve the issue; we apologised for the fifth time and moved the van. Sorry if this caused any issues organisers... I wont be parking there again; that was unbelievable response given we had only been there a couple of minutes....

Anyway slow improvements...
Finally connected up the exhaust servo and configured an opening curve in the igntech that matched well----> nothing; all a guess.

Practice and race one??.
Well the jetting was more on target and the exhaust valve really helped with the low end response. but unfortunately the 25year old servo failed to last any longer than 10 minutes before it died and lock on closed (causing a stutter up high in the rev range)... rolled in unplugged the servo and wired it open. bugger but at least we know that it does make a difference; which until then was all speculation. Crazyman noted that the front tyre had been hitting the radiator.

Race:
Well now back to the bogging bottom end; race went well and started to find some confidence in the handling and slowly got the feeling I was going faster. only just missed lapping crazyman at the flag (that I suspect will be the last ever chance of doing that!!). An attempt to resolve the radiator wheel issue we gave it a bit more preload; this didn't really solve the issue

Race:
Well that started well; however exhaust popped off at the header connection to the cylinder in lap4 or 5. Came straight in as has caused piston issues in the past and the noise was terrible... This issue I would suggest is linked back the the radiator wheel issue as the radiator is close to both; something to get sorted me thinks.... heavy springs went on for a day solution..

Race:
A great tussle with Crazyman (whom had now woken up enough and had come to grips with bike and track); mid pack finishes. I really wanted to get up to Kendog as that is about the mark where I stopped two/three years ago; next meeting...

Last race:
Well most of you have likely has seen the footage of this.
Finally got a good start and found some room around the outside.
but four of us were rather "grouped" in turn two. not sure of names (and this is my recollection of events) but the two in front decided to have a wee lye-down together after the inside rider lost the rear; I didn't have anywhere to go other than into a sliding FXR and unfortunately took out the person on my outside as my bike went down (probably my bad here; I didn't yield my position on the inside going into turn two and really hadn't completed the pass that well);. then we all turned into a sliding mess/hazard bring down other riders coming through.
So; a few things now to fix up for next time (Which put toll to racing in the streetstocks class in the last round of BRM this weekend).
but other than a bent sub-frame (having been a pitbike launch ramp :cry:); bent foot pegs brackets and scuffed fairings; the bike is actually in good shape considering (& I spent a couple days limping around being laughed at by my staff after showing the clip).
The white nylon did its job and there is not a single scuff on any metal parts of the bike (other than the alloy exhaust; will have a better solution for this next time). So I hope that this event didn't upset the KART boys too much and I hope everyone is alright.

Will be back next meeting; its sooo much fun being out there again.

[crazy man]

the GT.. the GT..:love:

So are you going to build a crazyman framed centre hub steering bike?? Roll over Elf Yamaha.
I better sort out those pistons then...no l have reserved the frame the 125 twin was going into for the 100 twin he he. you better get the pistons here (-:

[husaberg]

the GT.. the GT..:love:

So are you going to build a crazyman framed centre hub steering bike?? Roll over Elf Yamaha.
I better sort out those pistons then...

Wasn't the ELF's er........ Honda powered they brought all the patents after the project like Proarm etc.
Serge Rosset went on to Build pretty but conventional framed and suspended ROC Yamaha's and Swiss auto powered stuff later?

PS found some RS rear brakes stuff carrier, MC etc caliper too i think as well if you are interested?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_VDCGGBYmNCk/TLRcdONMJFI/AAAAAAAAQPM/Yf3GH8Ztouw/s640/elf.JPG

[Bert]

ELF... Honda...

true; bugger.
yes well I was rather young at that stage of GP history... no excuse for that though.

[Henk]

Bert

Having riden that bike of yours I feel you are doing both yourself and the bike a huge dis-service if you are aiming at mid pack B grade finishes. I'm getting mid pack A grade results on a pretty stock FXR that your bike should shortly smoke in HP stakes as well as handling much nicer.

[jasonu]

pulled out the half finshed centre hub steering bike . looks like the honda 125 twin will go into it (looks the best)

Wot a 40kg motor that makes fuck all power? Surely there is a better (2 stroke) alternative.

[crazy man]

Bert

Having riden that bike of yours I feel you are doing both yourself and the bike a huge dis-service if you are aiming at mid pack B grade finishes. I'm getting mid pack A grade results on a pretty stock FXR that your bike should shortly smoke in HP stakes as well as handling much nicer.A grade in Auckland is like B grade in wellington (-;

[crazy man]

Wot a 40kg motor that makes fuck all power? Surely there is a better (2 stroke) alternative.l know what your saying but will have to get some more ponys out of it . l had a tf100 sitting in it but just did not look right ! its is just the Mark 1 so does not matter to much

[Henk]

A grade in Auckland is like B grade in wellington (-;

Rode against Bert in the B grade in Wellington at Easter. Managed to just edge ahead of him so you might be right.

[crazy man]

Rode against Bert in the B grade in Wellington at Easter. Managed to just edge ahead of him so you might be right.you are not ment to agree lol . l did find my self b grade harder than it was years ago but the tires are better and my fitness is not that grate . l was a top a grade rider 10 years ago but now a pussy

[Bert]

Bert

Having riden that bike of yours I feel you are doing both yourself and the bike a huge dis-service if you are aiming at mid pack B grade finishes. I'm getting mid pack A grade results on a pretty stock FXR that your bike should shortly smoke in HP stakes as well as handling much nicer.


Rode against Bert in the B grade in Wellington at Easter. Managed to just edge ahead of him so you might be right.

Henk you are right; I'm a pussy at the moment and the bike is much better than I am currently.:woohoo: not a bad situation to be in.

but the first aim was to get back out and finish some races and to get some confidence back (its been a while) and then Qualify for A-grade.
Don't forget the GP was my first real outing on any motorcycle in three years (track, dirt or road) on a untested bike finish the Friday beforehand; and Easter was spent resolving some more tuning issues ($60 was cheaper than a dyno run and I got to catch up with everyone)... and while I shouldn't throw stones in glass houses; didn't I finish in front of you at the GP? :innocent: and one of the very few two strokes home....:shutup:

But in all seriousness you are bang on about what I should be aiming for and you are not alone in making those comments over the last couple of weeks.
:drinknsin

right re-commence the general shit talking...

[worm13]

you are not ment to agree lol . lm just a pussy and thats all.

aha I knew.. I always thought you meowed when you walked past im glad you dont rub up my legs like you do with other people in the pits.

[Henk]

Um yeah the GP, I finished the race standing on the pit shed roof when my engine quit after seven laps. Suspect bent valves but as a four stroke rider the idea of taking my engine to bits to try and found out what went wrong is something I'm having to creep up on slowly.

[Rick 52]

Rode against Bert in the B grade in Wellington at Easter. Managed to just edge ahead of him so you might be right.

Great ride I think on a bike with only 8hp and a weight of about 90 kg . FXR 2 valve 100cc :Punk:

[crazy man]

aha I knew.. I always thought you meowed when you walked past im glad you dont rub up my legs like you do with other people in the pits.l thought you only came around to have your legs rubed ? l got that all wrong! so why were you winking at me then?

[worm13]

l thought you only came around to have your legs rubed ? l got that all wrong! so why were you winking at me then?

I didnt want that akward momemnt of rejecting you so I just played along!

[GHOSTRIDER1]

Hey team any idea if this shock will fit a 2002 150cc Fxr...http://www.suspensionshop.org/VIEW.php?brand=19&txtSearch=FX+125&cmdSearch=Show+Model#searchview

[Pumba]

Hey team any idea if this shock will fit a 2002 150cc Fxr...http://www.suspensionshop.org/VIEW.php?brand=19&txtSearch=FX+125&cmdSearch=Show+Model#searchview

Probably not the right thread but to answer your question look at these threads

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/131029-Ohlins-for-FXR?highlight=YSS

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/127165-Rear-shock-for-FXR-150?highlight=YSS

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/115115-FXR150-rear-shock-upgrade?highlight=YSS

[Bert]

Well after a number of years changing my mind about the F4 build and finally Crazyman coming to rescue with the ultimate F3/F4 solution; I've got a number of bits waiting for another project.

Could a F5 be on the cards (might as well have a crack at all F classes)???:headbang:

Don't know what Wifey will think about another bike appearing in the shed (I think I need off site storage).

Anyway watch this space.

[husaberg]

Don't know what Wifey will think about another bike appearing in the shed (I think I need off site storage).

Anyway watch this space.

The way i see it you either

Have too many bikes ............Yeah Right

You could have too Many Wife's.........Not sure on the optimum, but a Number is somewhere between 1 and 0 i Guess.

Maybe if you upped your wife/bike ratio. (IE 2 wifes two sheds 2 beds):scratch:

[F5 Dave]

F5? Shweet. Let us know if you want any help with that RG engine.

[crazy man]

put a cb100 in it :cool:

[crazy man]

wonder if there will ever be enough f5 bikes to run a gp again?

[Bert]

F5? Shweet. Let us know if you want any help with that RG engine.

Cheers Dave. it would be great to see the class get some more numbers in it.


put a cb100 in it :cool:

tempting... not...

Now we have to get your RD going!!

[Gigglebutton]

wonder if there will ever be enough f5 bikes to run a gp again?

I have one almost finished and one in deelopement

[crazy man]

Cheers Dave. it would be great to see the class get some more numbers in it.



tempting... not...

Now we have to get your RD going!!sum forks for the rd and sum spark for the gt as well as rd and l'm away

[crazy man]

I have one almost finished and one in deelopementits a pain it cost so much to enter 2 bikes for the gp

[Pumba]

its a pain it cost so much to enter 2 bikes for the gp

I think you have nailed the problem on the head. There were enough bikes to hold it this year, and there are more being built all the time; however most also run and F4.

Shit I know I couldn't afford to do the F4 GP last time without even thinking about twoentry fees.

[Buckets4Me]

wonder if there will ever be enough f5 bikes to run a gp again?

I have 2 one for me (finished and raced rarley)
and one for the boy (nearly finished )
TZ350 has one he has nearly finished
Nedkelly is also building something special

just looking for enough round2it's to finish them all before the next GP

[F5 Dave]

ell maybe it won't be held with a National SB meet next time? No timing would save $ we don't need to spend. Oh sure its nice, but it doesn't change the racing 1 iota.

[crazy man]

264305finely building myself a bike . it has a 100 twin in it but made around putting other engines like tf100's and what ever. started on a swing arm as well

[Bert]

finely building myself a bike . it has a 100 twin in it but made around putting other engines like tf100's and what ever. started on a swing arm as well

Nice; look forward to seeing it tomorrow...:2thumbsup

[husaberg]

264305finely building myself a bike . it has a 100 twin in it but made around putting other engines like tf100's and what ever. started on a swing arm as well

Looks great.
Its amazing just how compact that motor is once the fining is removed. :niceone:

The Carbs look bigger than the cylinders
Come to think of it they would be over 3/4 bore-nearly.
Does it have MB based cylinders?
Sorry Scott can't be arsed looking back through the PM.s

http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/13/177903613_full.jpg

Also what size is the steering head?

[crazy man]

Looks great.
Its amazing just how compact that motor is once the fining is removed. :niceone:

The Carbs look bigger than the cylinders
Come to think of it they would be over 3/4 bore-nearly.
Does it have MB based cylinders?
Sorry Scott can't be arsed looking back through the PM.s

Also what size is the steering head?yep they are mb50 cyclinders they dont look much in size your right ! . 28 mm nsr carbs . l think the fork head is around 60mm l got the old man to machine it up

[crazy man]

Nice; look forward to seeing it tomorrow...:2thumbsupthanks to you berty getting back involed with this bucket racing thingy

[husaberg]

Its certainly a neat engine the MB is cylinder reed (you can just make out the original inlets)
Your engine is by the looks of it full Crankcase reed.

So was there a crankcase reed Gt125 or is it all Crazyman
I can only remember piston port ones not that they were that common.

It never ceases to amaze me. How much smaller those air cooled engines are with all those fins whipped of ESP the heads
http://images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/13/177903613_full.jpg
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=264305&d=1338443002

[crazy man]

full Crankcase reed has been welded into it . most the engine was done when l brought it l just ported the engine and now making some new heads for it. l need to do somthing about the water pump ( maybe a eletric one) if l can't fined a good place to run it of. pistons have been a problem but bert may have found me some. they keeped flaking at the top of the piston?

[F5 Dave]

Phil Bird? built that didn't he?

I ran RD50 pistons in the MB50, but there are two models & you want the 1.2mm ringed version, not the 1.5. Also the ring pegs need to be moved & you need to trim the bottom of the pistons on MB rods, but the GT ones probably allow you to keep them as it. Most important is you need to run thrust washers on the small end pin as the pistons are wider across the small end bearing.


Sitting around so long you'll need to redo the crank, or at least replace the Big end bearings & polish the rods. Any minor corrosion will end that crank as soon as you start asking it to do serious revs, which is the whole point of the twin.

[Bert]

264305finely building myself a bike . it has a 100 twin in it but made around putting other engines like tf100's and what ever. started on a swing arm as well


full Crankcase reed has been welded into it . most the engine was done when l brought it l just ported the engine and now making some new heads for it. l need to do somthing about the water pump ( maybe a eletric one) if l can't fined a good place to run it of. pistons have been a problem but bert may have found me some. they keeped flaking at the top of the piston?

whoooooo; looks very cool in the flesh; as well as a few other very interesting projects underway...

Cheers for a good day in the workshop (and letting me use the tool & toys). much more fun than sitting in meetings or looking at Dots or numbers on a screen :niceone:

[crazy man]

did not take you long to get on:headbang: here bert , you better have the fire going

[mossy1200]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=479843304

2 stroke or not 2 stroke. That is the carpet cleaners question. Would this be a better engine than a xl125 crank xl185bore xr200 head to work with?

[Henk]

One look at the head says two stroke, any good? No idea

[mossy1200]

One look at the head says two stroke, any good? No idea

yep twin 125 2smoke 14.7 hp stock i wonder how cheap 20hp would be. Might only take carb and good pipes. put the motor into mc17 instead of spend on the xl combo motor but i do like the way the xl exaust etc is done
264341

[crazy man]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=479843304

2 stroke or not 2 stroke. That is the carpet cleaners question. Would this be a better engine than a xl125 crank xl185bore xr200 head to work with?l want it:cool:

[cotswold]

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=479843304

2 stroke or not 2 stroke. That is the carpet cleaners question. Would this be a better engine than a xl125 crank xl185bore xr200 head to work with?

It's a gt125 suzuki 2 stroke twin in a french maids outfit, they run 2 x 19mm carbs so would have to either put a single 24 or a pair of 12's on it, they were plenty fast in their day ( around 80mph ) which would smoke the xl.
I also have it on my watch list, thought no one would see it hidden in parts other.
Not sure it would make a good bucket motor, there is a gp125 on t/m that would though.

[Henk]

I've got $10 that says Cotswold won't turn up at the next Mt Welly meet in a French maid outfit.

[F5 Dave]

A pair of 12s huh? another person who can't do the math. we've been over this before. area of two 12s is less than a 24.

[mossy1200]

It's a gt125 suzuki 2 stroke twin in a french maids outfit, they run 2 x 19mm carbs so would have to either put a single 24 or a pair of 12's on it, they were plenty fast in their day ( around 80mph ) which would smoke the xl.
I also have it on my watch list, thought no one would see it hidden in parts other.
Not sure it would make a good bucket motor, there is a gp125 on t/m that would though.

I just relised straight shipping stopped their service last June.
They used to have a drop off bike service and they sent once and week for about $40.00

[mossy1200]

A pair of 12s huh? another person who can't do the math. we've been over this before. area of two 12s is less than a 24.


looks like they bang 180 degree out so a 24mm carb feeding both would be the way?

[cotswold]

I've got $10 that says Cotswold won't turn up at the next Mt Welly meet in a French maid outfit.

When do i ever turn up??

[cotswold]

A pair of 12s huh? another person who can't do the math. we've been over this before. area of two 12s is less than a 24.

Oh you are so picky, I don't do math but I am guessing 2 x 19's may be a little large ??

How do you work out the area:scratch:

[mossy1200]

2 17mm flatslides would do total area same as one 24mm

[F5 Dave]

do a search here on GT125 & you'll find workings, or google 'area' or if you must
pi x Dia sq/4 or 2 pi R squared as we learneded at skool.

But yes Mossy is onto the obvious 180deg through a 24mm carb. If you were real keen short manifold into crankcase & vertical reedblock, one side, other side. kewl huh?

[Henk]

When do i ever turn up??

Never in a French maids uniform

[cotswold]

Never in a French maids uniform

I reckon i would be buggered if i did:buggerd:

[Yow Ling]

2 17mm flatslides would do total area same as one 24mm

MVX250 has 3 x 20mm flatslides, you could do some smoke and mirrors to get them to the 17mm carburetion equivalent

Heres a thread on GT125 bucket http://www.fxr150.co.nz/forum/showthread.php?540-gt125 did i mention its over at the world famous FXR150 site ?

[Bert]

Another sideline conversation starter.

http://www.facebook.com/MJworks.racing

I've been follow this guys work on facebook for a while now (actually one of the only reasons for FB other than getting mates to send me motorcycle stuff from around the world).

I've put together an interesting montage of his homemade swingarm (as part of his KTM LC supermono project) for those that don't want to use FB....

Another project for you Crazyman...:msn-wink:

[Pumba]

Another sideline conversation starter.

http://www.facebook.com/MJworks.racing

Link was given somewhere else on here a while ago, the whole build has been a thing of beauty. Wish I had the tools/time/money to give building a frame ago.

[Bert]

Yes; I had been warned that ceramic bearings were a waste of time.

and well after ~10 hours of running I now have to agree and will be heading back to Steel mains.... which is a shame really as they did feel so nice.

Last Sunday I ended up on my head in turn two; after the engine decided to lock solid mid turn and sent me skywards...:wait:

So here are a few photos of the state of insides.
265494265495265496

Luckily no significant damage has been found as yet; and I'm hoping to extract all the ceramic dust out of the motor.:spanking:

[mossy1200]

thats nasty stuff.

[husaberg]

Yes; I had been warned that ceramic bearings were a waste of time.

and well after ~10 hours of running I now have to agree and will be heading back to Steel mains.... which is a shame really as they did feel so nice.

Last Sunday I ended up on my head in turn two; after the engine decided to lock solid mid turn and sent me skywards...:wait:

So here are a few photos of the state of insides.
265494265495265496

Luckily no significant damage has been found as yet; and I'm hoping to extract all the ceramic dust out of the motor.:spanking:

When one of the kids drops a mug i use an er... vacuum cleaner............Too soon....
PS i am resisting the urge and man i am trying.
Shit thats really a mess though bugger, no injuries to you i hope then also you better tell YOW though cause i think he was thinking similar.....

[Yow Ling]

When one of the kids drops a mug i use an er... vacuum cleaner............Too soon....
PS i am resisting the urge and man i am trying.
Shit thats really a mess though bugger, no injuries to you i hope then also you better tell YOW though cause i think he was thinking similar.....

No I wasnt , Im dutch