Dangerous road markings

[Mom]

As the good folk that live up this way are well aware of, along with an increasing number of bikers around NZ whose roads are just getting tagged, the road painting monsters are out and about determined to frustrate for sure, and likely contribute to the road toll for absolute certain by spreading yellow and white paint all over the show.

I have joked on here before about the "Double Yellow Line Man" that has gone mad and covered seemingly every road with two unbroken yellow lines, reducing most traffic to a solid line stuck behind some plonker who is travelling under the posted speed limit as a result of the SPEED KILLS message we are contantly bombarded with. I argue chance would be a fine thing on most of the main arterial routes and many secondary routes up this way, but I digress.

Being stuck like that leads to frustration and people simply ignore those double yellows and overtake regardless. Problem with that is they are sometimes actually put in places you should never overtake, result, carnage, or reduced bank balances from road users that get ticketed for crossing them. This has been the subject of a bit of discussion in the past but please feel free to add your comments.

On the weekend just gone, I ventured back out on the roads after a non motorbiking injury before Christmas. We headed north to avail ourselves of a bit of Norfland hospitality and a chance to enjoy some of the best biker roads around. Imagine my disgust to see the middle of the lanes marked over and over and over again with friggen HUGE white painted arrows. Now, I know why they are there and I understand they may be considered to be helpful in keeping our tourists on the right side of the roadway, but surely there should be a bit more thought put into their placement on the roads?

Some of these things are bang smack in the riding line on corners where you are leaned over committed to the turn. All of a sudden your tyres connect with this slippery shit making for some weird lines being taken through corners. I dont know about you lot, but I avoid riding on paint at all costs, up this way you almost get no choice in places.

We have enough patch sealing (unmarked in most cases), tar snakes, uneven surfaces, idiots crossing over the centre line with no yellows etc to cope with, without these plonkers adding another risk into the mix. I think both "Mr Double Yellow Line Man" and "Mr Huge White Arrow Man" need to have a bit of retraining on where these things really should be painted :yes:

[Milts]

I agree entirely, I've been wondering whether the overenthusiastic double yellows contribute to the road toll by causing frustration for a while - I can easily see it happening.

It would be nice if something could be done about this, either by a mass submission of signature stating that this is madness, or (2nd best) by adding a number of 'slow vehicle' bays or more passing lanes. The issue with slow vehicle bays is that half the slow vehicles seem to think they're traveling more than fast enough and don't pull over.

I haven't myself seen the 'keep left' arrows on the apex of corners, but if that's the case then that's just pure madness and someone needs to smack the line painters one. Preferably at the same time as beating shitless the red-tape-mad official who who insisted they be painted everywhere.

[Mom]

The issue with slow vehicle bays is that half the slow vehicles seem to think they're traveling more than fast enough and don't pull over.

No, they simply speed up for fear they will be beaten by someone overtaking them. Can not count the number of times I have given up attempting to overtake something that has sped up exponentially once they are in the left hand lane of a passing oppertunity. I once got a ticket for doing that, I am a bit gun shy now, stuff the authorities, I wont pay them any more money for trying to overtake an appalling driver on a passing lane, rather do it in a safe place on the open road when the suckers are doing 80 kph. Oh, hang on, cant do it there either, as "Double Yellow Line Man" has got there first :D

[Toaster]

Road paint + rain + grease and grime = impromptu "horizontal parking".

[FJRider]

With Queenstown less than an hour away from my back door, those white arrows are a common sight on local roads ... with similar results in the wet. Just as well is doesn't rain down here ... much ...

[phill-k]

Is this the sort of thing Bronz should be lobbying on?

[Mom]

Is this the sort of thing Bronz should be lobbying on?

Perhaps, you should ask them :D

[phill-k]

Perhaps, you should ask them :D

I've just sent a letter to our council up here about the the gravel not sweeped from the corners where they have done repairs, specifically the Tutakaka Rd and the old Russell Rd. Also mentioned in the letter the placement of directional arrows near corners and the potential hazard these create to Bikers. Trouble is I'm just one person, and it's easy for the powers that be to ignore. Actually I would dearly love to see or be in a position to fund some legal action against the council & contractors who don't complete their work by clean / sweeping the lose chip after such repairs, along with their latest little habit of sealing around a corner but only 3/4 of a lane leaving a lovely ridge to ride up and down whilst leaned well over. That might make them rethink the poor and often uneven repairs they complete.

[Supertwin Don]

At the risk of being hung, drawn and eigthed -
1. roads are not generally "dangerous", that is, unless you are in the middle of an earthquake or something similar
2.speed limits are "maximum LEGALLY allowed in PERFECT conditions" - and the condition INCLUDES the state of the road.
3. if the "hazard" is known about - action can and should be taken by the road user - and (shock, horror) this may include slowing down!
4. finally, remember who chose to be out there on an inherently unstable mode of transport.

I enjoy a bit of speed as well as the next man, but if I know that there are more than the usual hazards about, I can still quite happily "cruise" along.

[Berries]

You’ll be seeing more of the arrows. MOTSAM was changed this year to officially endorse their use as keep left reminders. It is a tricky one because in some areas drivers from overseas get a lot of flak, when often their crashes are not related to driving on the wrong side of the road. But it happens, and head on crashes are never nice. So what do you do ? Education is a non-starter, they all know which side to drive on, but it is so easy to revert back to instinct.

Over here you’ll see them going in after rest areas and other likely places a tourist will stop, and then at roughly 5km intervals in between. Funnily enough I recently put together a schedule to put them down here and yes, I did ensure there were none where a bike would be leant over, braking or accelerating. I wasn’t told to do this, I ride so I did it, but I imagine if a non rider was putting them in then it wouldn’t be a consideration. NZTA are supposed to be thinking more of bikes these days so friendly reminders to local offices wouldn't go amiss. All it needs is a letter from an individual, you don't need petitions or ought like that.

[duckonin]

Is this the sort of thing Bronz should be lobbying on?

Yeah right ha ha, send them an email them wait for the reply, but have a half a dozen good long books to read, when finnished do not hold your breath...

[phill-k]

You’ll be seeing more of the arrows. MOTSAM was changed this year to officially endorse their use as keep left reminders. It is a tricky one because in some areas drivers from overseas get a lot of flak, when often their crashes are not related to driving on the wrong side of the road. But it happens, and head on crashes are never nice. So what do you do ? Education is a non-starter, they all know which side to drive on, but it is so easy to revert back to instinct.

Over here you’ll see them going in after rest areas and other likely places a tourist will stop, and then at roughly 5km intervals in between. Funnily enough I recently put together a schedule to put them down here and yes, I did ensure there were none where a bike would be lent over, braking or accelerating. I wasn’t told to do this, I ride so I did it, but I imagine if a non rider was putting them in then it wouldn’t be a consideration. NZTA are supposed to be thinking more of bikes these days so friendly reminders to local offices wouldn't go amiss. All it needs is a letter from an individual, you don't need petitions or ought like that.

I think they are a great idea, especially in areas where our visitors spend a lot of time on the roads, however its a shame that when the instructions went out, a little more thought didn't go into their placement. There are a couple on the loop road mentioned above that are just on the exit of some sharp corners, not the best location from a bikers point of view. As we all know a little bit of moisture, white paint and two wheels don't mix.

[Sentox]

No, they simply speed up for fear they will be beaten by someone overtaking them. Can not count the number of times I have given up attempting to overtake something that has sped up exponentially once they are in the left hand lane of a passing oppertunity. I once got a ticket for doing that, I am a bit gun shy now, stuff the authorities, I wont pay them any more money for trying to overtake an appalling driver on a passing lane, rather do it in a safe place on the open road when the suckers are doing 80 kph. Oh, hang on, cant do it there either, as "Double Yellow Line Man" has got there first :D

That's how I got my sole speeding ticket (thus far). Following a car (in a car myself) at 85 or so. Reach the passing lane, accelerate to just over 100. Said car speeds up to hold level with me. I accelerate to about 120. Cop comes around the corner. I swear I could see the cashtigmatism through his windscreen.


The issue with slow vehicle bays is that half the slow vehicles seem to think they're traveling more than fast enough and don't pull over.

Once I had a driver who refused to move over into the slow vehicle bay when I was riding through a twisty section. They weren't bothered by the fact I had caught them up at a fairly significant rate. Nope, they were happy with their speed and that was that. I undertook them using the slow bay. Not the most legal looking maneuver, I admit, but it beat passing on double yellows in frustration.

[peasea]

Road paint + rain + grease and grime = impromptu "horizontal parking".

Me and the missus suffered a serious (but not horizontal) moment in the rain, in a corner, on a road suffereing from tar-bleed riding over the word 'school'. It was so big you couldn't ride around it, just ridiculous.

[phill-k]

At the risk of being hung, drawn and eigthed -
1. roads are not generally "dangerous", that is, unless you are in the middle of an earthquake or something similar
2.speed limits are "maximum LEGALLY allowed in PERFECT conditions" - and the condition INCLUDES the state of the road.
3. if the "hazard" is known about - action can and should be taken by the road user - and (shock, horror) this may include slowing down!
4. finally, remember who chose to be out there on an inherently unstable mode of transport.

I enjoy a bit of speed as well as the next man, but if I know that there are more than the usual hazards about, I can still quite happily "cruise" along.

Safe riding is all about being aware of on road hazards, however there is no excuse for poor workmanship, and some of the road repairs in Northland are well below standard. The simple act of sweeping the road upon the contractors return to remove signage should be a part of the standard these repairs are completed to. It is quite usual to see fine gravel on some of these corners months after the repair. To run a new surface half or three quarters of the way around a corner and there to be 20 - 30mm difference in height is not acceptable, to run seal covering only 3/4 of the width of the lane is not acceptable, yes all these things are visible and a hazard, no they have not as such caught me out, but one of the roads specifically loose ship some months after the repair caused at least three bike to be written off in the same area over the summer. So in my eyes the contractors and council need to be taken to task.

[oldrider]

I agree entirely, I've been wondering whether the overenthusiastic double yellows contribute to the road toll by causing frustration for a while - I can easily see it happening.

It would be nice if something could be done about this, either by a mass submission of signature stating that this is madness, or (2nd best) by adding a number of 'slow vehicle' bays or more passing lanes. The issue with slow vehicle bays is that half the slow vehicles seem to think they're traveling more than fast enough and don't pull over.

I haven't myself seen the 'keep left' arrows on the apex of corners, but if that's the case then that's just pure madness and someone needs to smack the line painters one. Preferably at the same time as beating shitless the red-tape-mad official who who insisted they be painted everywhere.

They won't be satisfied until there is a continuous set of double yellows from North Cape to the Bluff and these arrows every 100 metres each way to boot!

It sure is a whole lot cheaper than real road maintenance! :mellow:

[Mom]

I enjoy a bit of speed as well as the next man, but if I know that there are more than the usual hazards about, I can still quite happily "cruise" along.

Well even in your cruise mode you would be at risk from some of the hazards I saw this weekend on the road. Man made ones these things, I am not talking about the fallen rocks, or the washed gravel from the roadsides due to heavy rain.



Safe riding is all about being aware of on road hazards, however there is no excuse for poor workmanship, and some of the road repairs in Northland are well below standard. The simple act of sweeping the road upon the contractors return to remove signage should be a part of the standard these repairs are completed to. It is quite usual to see fine gravel on some of these corners months after the repair. To run a new surface half or three quarters of the way around a corner and there to be 20 - 30mm difference in height is not acceptable, to run seal covering only 3/4 of the width of the lane is not acceptable, yes all these things are visible and a hazard, no they have not as such caught me out, but one of the roads specifically loose ship some months after the repair caused at least three bike to be written off in the same area over the summer. So in my eyes the contractors and council need to be taken to task.

Amen! Bloody dangerous roads up this way. Hmmmmmmm, wonder if I can interest ACC in improving our chances of safely negotiating the rural roads up this way. Damn sure I can convince them that road condition can be an injury category, perhaps then we may get some action.

[schrodingers cat]

No, they simply speed up for fear they will be beaten by someone overtaking them. Can not count the number of times I have given up attempting to overtake something that has sped up exponentially once they are in the left hand lane of a passing oppertunity.

The 'Dog and Lemon Guide' once had an interesting peice of editorial. Long story short, research had shown that the greatest factor contributing to road user speed (or lack thereof) was road design. If the road FEELS/SEEMS narrow then most people slow down. When it opens up they FEEL more comfortable to drive faster.

It is frustrating but I think this type of road user (all too common) isn't even aware that they are doing it.

Interstingly it also said that road design was the greatest factor in road fatalities. Our politicions and Police are well aware our road are crap. The SLOW DOWN message is cheaper than fixing the roads

I think its a shame that they don't run a campaign that says 'Get out of the fucking way!'
Also affix that message to every campervan in the country...

Unfortunatley, I'm sure many people feel they are saving your life by restricting you to their idea of a 'safe' speed

I've always taken the view to let people past and if (god forbid) they have that accident then its on a different piece of road to what I'm on.

It a pity the Police don't spank a few of these non-speeders and give them a curry up. In terms of good will it would go a looooooong way to building goodwill

[Mom]

It a pity the Police don't spank a few of these non-speeders and give them a curry up. In terms of good will it would go a looooooong way to building goodwill

I have only seen that once. Coming back from Paeroa a while ago and we were caught in the endless que of traffic doing 60-70kph. Was such a long line of vehicles (we were in the car) we culd not see the start. Once we got out on the straights we saw a house bus simply dawdling along totally oblivious to his discourteous driving. He was also oblivious to the cop a few cars behind him who had obviously been following him for a while. When the bus did not pull over to let the rest of us get on the cop flicked on his lights and pulled the bus over. We were a fair distance back but as we came alongside the bus I am sur I could hear the cop reading the riot act to the driver pointing out the number of vehicles he had held up. Hope the fine was HUGE!

[sunhuntin]

they have those arrows down south, but ONLY just outside rest point entries and exits, the places where tourists are most likely to stop and then pull out on the wrong side. i never saw any on corners. course, its been a couple of years, so its probably changed by now.

who decides that road markings need to be done, and their placement? certainly someone needs to be pulled up about it. in the wet, those corner arrows could be fatal even for a car driver, never mind a biker.

[Swoop]

The Yellow Paint Monster will cause the same effect as fluro vest wearing. Too much, and the message is lost.

Giant arrows pointing to the left should be painted on the straight roads. Useless fucking kiwi drivers who cannot keep left to save themselves... :ar15:

[george formby]

I've just sent a letter to our council up here about the the gravel not sweeped from the corners where they have done repairs, specifically the Tutakaka Rd and the old Russell Rd. Also mentioned in the letter the placement of directional arrows near corners and the potential hazard these create to Bikers. Trouble is I'm just one person, and it's easy for the powers that be to ignore. Actually I would dearly love to see or be in a position to fund some legal action against the council & contractors who don't complete their work by clean / sweeping the lose chip after such repairs, along with their latest little habit of sealing around a corner but only 3/4 of a lane leaving a lovely ridge to ride up and down whilst leaned well over. That might make them rethink the poor and often uneven repairs they complete.

PM me if you would be interested in discussing a Northland safety group type thingy so we can get a bit more weight brought to bare on these issues. The whole region suffers the same lack of diligence.

[george formby]

I reckon the arrows on the road have little effect on overseas drivers, they always seem to be looking at the scenery. Signs at the road side stand out far better.

[Berries]

who decides that road markings need to be done, and their placement?
For state highways NZTA or their consultants. These double yellows going in appear to be more for enforcement reasons than visibility issues therefore I suspect the Police have a hand in it.


I reckon the arrows on the road have little effect on overseas drivers, they always seem to be looking at the scenery. Signs at the road side stand out far better.
Signs get shot to buggery, and what would it say other than two opposing arrows ? I think arrows marked on the road can act as a good reminder, particularly if you are on the wrong side when you go over one the 'wrong way'. Hopefully you go over the arrow and realise your mistake before a logging truck comes round the corner.

[Hypobru]

These reminder arrows to keep to the correct side of the road are common in some European countries, but they are generally painted in the center of the road where the broken white lines are. The idea of these arrows has merit, but like many good ideas, something gets lost in translation. I'd imagine that it would be feasible for a 4 wheeled vehicle to lose traction in poor conditions if it hit road paint in a corner too so it seems a bit thoughtless on the part of the road painters to put any paint at all in a corner. apologies to anyone out there who does this for a crust, but if 'thought' was a strong point I doubt they'd be making a living painting lines on our roading system.

[Berries]

In the UK those arrows on the centre line are used ahead of no passing lines to tell you you need to get back on your side of the road - the same meaning as the five yellow stripes before solid yellow lines over here.