Rekluse clutch

[Crisis management]

I stumbled across a thread in an american site about an old fart (like me, never raced before) starting racing cross countries (something that is on my "to do" list this winter) and as he was riding a 200EXC there was a lot there for me to learn. He is using a Rekluse clutch and claims it is very commonly used in the states in that type of racing but it is something I haven't heard of used here, I know what it is, I'm just unaware of it being used in racing here.
So, is everyone else here using auto clutches and no one has told me or is it an american phenomenon?
Riding the 2 stroke, my obvious interest is in steep uphills as that is one area I am weak in, digging trenches and back flips seems to be my common method of attack, is a Rekluse worth looking at?
Any comments and advice welcome, I'm certainly not rushing out to buy one to try out but I'm interested in others experience.

[guy smiley]

I've been running a rekluse z start pro for the last couple years and swear by it.
Wouldn't go back

[andy 101]

I had the z start pro on my rmz450 and it was awsome you get perfect traction on slippery hills can stop while still in gear and cant stall the moter as easey, and you still have a more or less normal manual clutch lever, there is a new one from revloc called the dyna ring but dont know much about them.

[Crisis management]

Thanks guys, what are they like in sand and Andy, would you run one on your 250?

[andy 101]

Thanks guys, what are they like in sand and Andy, would you run one on your 250?

I would not recomend them in sand realy, you need all the drive you can get the rekluse is designed to slip and get traction, there is a slight delay in accelarating out of corners in sand, it comes into its own on snotty slipery mud and rocks, and where you are going to keep stalling a 450f. personally i dont think the 2 srokes really need one. go to www. ktmtalk.com and search rekluse clutchs there is some good info there.

[secondfield]

Do some research on the Revloc dyna ring product, a few guys run them here in NSW and swear by them. A truck load cheaper than the Rekluse and you can jump start your bike. Takes a few minutes to install and your clutch feel stays the same.

[camchain]

I've noticed a fair few dudes seem to have them on KTMtalk.com - good place for specific info. Might even pick up a cheap used one?

Mate has a Recluse on his old school 500 4-banger and he's very happy with it. Damn near impossible to stall (even if you tip over and fall off) and super easy in the real snotty stuff. Almost like cheating - it really is that big a difference. He VMXs it as well and seems to get good starts with it.

I'd guess on a stroppy 'lil 200, the slow/gnarly stuff would probably be twice as easy with an auto-clutch. Even in normal riding it just makes for one less thing to deal with. Reckon the only time I'd really miss a clutch is a quick flick to build revs/break traction coming out of a corner or similar situation.

I found it quite weird to ride during my short half hour blast, but I'd say you'd adapt pretty quick. He has removed his rear brake lever and converted his clutch lever to work the rear brake instead. Gave myself a couple of frights trying to stomp on the non-existent brake pedal, but his rear brake operated by hand is pretty neat - heaps more feel than a clumsy boot. Liked this so much I've been pondering how to set up a handlever for rear brake on conventional bike ever since (Maybe a thumb brake lever?).

I always use clutch to change gear and it was hard to mentally overcome the clutchless idea, especially downchanging. Great to be able to have full grip on bar with clutch hand all the time though. I've hit the odd whoop wrong in the middle of a gear-change and hurty handy.

Felt like I had to be very mindful of what gear I was in because it seemed to work fine in a gear too high, but I don't think that would be too good on the clutch. You don't get same perfect feedback on what gear you're in (maybe just me?).

Took mate quite a while to tinker, and get it set up to work exactly how he wanted - eg right amount of slip/drive. A main disadvantage is you can't bump start with auto-clutch, but I can certainly see why folks like them.

[Taz]

I ran a rekluse on my YZF250 back when I was doing MX and offroad. I found it great. Awesome starts in 2nd gear. Less stalling etc. Reliable and easy to set up. Highly recommended but they are pricey.

[Crisis management]

Thanks for the replies guys, Camchain, there is now a rekluse Pro that retains the hand clutch operation and this seems popular with the Yanks, seems like they are more prevalent than I thought here but at the best part of $1000 I'm going to keep on using the lever on the handlebars.

[Reckless]

How do they go when your like chugging (using the torque) over a slippery dune or hill? Would they disengage?
But I have the same 2 stroke rider problem of digging trenches ( to much power)! Its so bloody hard on a sand hill (or the big dipper) to give it less power when every instinct is telling you to give it more to keep moving LOL!!!

I only use the clutch 50% of the time comes from my karting days where we never even had a clutch basket in the engine and did hundreds of changes each meeting.
And another question. I always change gear with no power on (karting style)! Can you pull it through under power with a Rekluse or is the power off technique still required????

I like the idea but it seems like cheating LOL!!

BTW Crisis can you post a link to the article I'd like to have a read of it.

[Crisis management]

Reckless, as requested.....

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=573245

It is a thread, so requires a bit of reading through but it was interesting to me as I'm busy trying to fend off old age and pretend I can still ride and not come last!

As far as the rekluse goes it's engaged unless revs are low (centrifugal clutch) so no different in gear changes than conventional. It would be interesting to see one on a 200 in the sand but I'm just going to keep practicing feathering the clutch at the moment.

[Reckless]

I think any spare money would go into a steering damper for me but if I won lotto I'd love to fit a new bike out with all the bullshit!! LOL!!!

Imagine it!! Brand new 2012 direct injection exc200 with olins damper and forks/shock, Rekluse clutch, pivot pegs, 10 years off the rider, Bloody magic!!!

[CRF119]

I dont have one but i have seen one in use when i did the wires with dafford, it works amazingly well you can have a much slower smoother aproch to things. Is handy when you cant get on your bike and you have to push using throttle to help or if you struggle with clutch control.

Personaly i wouldnt speend the money on one tho. Be good in those long enduros when you cant be assed with pulling the clucth in for thousandth time

Ive got pivot peggs they work so well boots last so much longer and you dont even know they are there.

[motor_mayhem]

A friend had one and the big down side was that he couldn't tow/hill start his bike

[Taz]

A friend had one and the big down side was that he couldn't tow/hill start his bike


Yeah if the bike stalls you can't drop the clutch and bump start it.

[camchain]

Yeah Crisis, that man/auto clutch combo is interesting. Hard to imagine how it might work in practice though. I wonder, could you flick the clutch to break traction, or if you dump the clutch while stopped/or v slow, would it stall? Seems to me as soon as you dump clutch the auto would kick in, so how useful might it be?


Quote Reckless: "How do they go when your like chugging (using the torque) over a slippery dune or hill? Would they disengage?"

For me, it didn't seem to disengage any more than I wanted, just smooth drive even with fairly small amounts of throttle. At no point in my ride (at Woodhill) did it feel like anything other than just plain easier to ride. I never really got to try that type of situation properly though. I think it mostly depends on how well it's set up.

I reckon on a small 2 stroke it could be harder to find that sweet spot in set-up.
I'd have really liked to have a go on that YZ125/auto that was on TradeMe recently!

I wonder too, what it'd be like if say, you were in 3rd going up a soft sand climb, 'off the pipe' - but wanted to get more rear wheel speed (but not clutch slip and useless revs)? With no man clutch lever to flick, i kind of think you'd need to change down.

Pretty sure changing gear without backing off would be as just tough on gearbox as with manual though.

On my mates bike it seemed (almost) as soon as you crack the throttle you get drive. It's just like the very first part of your throttle action becomes the clutch. It didn't feel too slovenly (e.g. not like that 'rubber band' auto transmission feel on a car), just felt more like you'd smoothly disengaged the clutch manually. My clutch feels a bit like an on-off switch! Been thinking about it, and I'd put money on me being quicker through the trees with an auto-clutch.

Another plus that comes to mind for an auto/4 stroke is lack of engine braking, for me an annoying 4T characteristic when swinging through the trees.

Hey btw, what's the deal on a go-kart with no clutch Reckless - how do you start?

[Reckless]

Hey btw, what's the deal on a go-kart with no clutch Reckless - how do you start?

Sprint racing: Crash/Push start out the pits, line up two lines and a rolling lights out start all races.
Road racing: Illegal for no disengage incase you had a sieze at high speed but we made up alloy dog teeth set ups to satisfy scrutineering.
You wouldn't believe how easy you guys treat your engines in MX Bikes!! LOL!!!
I spoke to a karter racing 125 gearbox overseas and they are now machining just over 3kgs out of the big end (crankshaft) in a high performance Rotax kart engine!! I have no reason to disbelieve him but shit that's huge!

[camchain]

That's amazing Reckless, wouldn't have thought a gearbox would stand up to it, especially with such a hard transfer of load with sticky tires on seal. Maybe I can afford to be a bit less of wuss with clutchless shifts.

[motor_mayhem]

KT100 karts are 1 gear and 0-100 in under 10 seconds

[clmintie]

I think any spare money would go into a steering damper for me but if I won lotto I'd love to fit a new bike out with all the bullshit!! LOL!!!

Imagine it!! Brand new 2012 direct injection exc200 with olins damper and forks/shock, Rekluse clutch, pivot pegs, 10 years off the rider, Bloody magic!!!

Imagine a fit, healthy rider, the real 'go fast' goodies.. :devil2:

Life is back to front.. Can't afford the cool stuff till we're too old to use it... :no:

[Reckless]

That's amazing Reckless, wouldn't have thought a gearbox would stand up to it, especially with such a hard transfer of load with sticky tires on seal. Maybe I can afford to be a bit less of wuss with clutchless shifts.

yeh but gearbox seizures where very far and few between, I never had one.
I suppose as long as you shift with no weight on the box ( off throttle) the tyres/load doesn't come into it?



Life is back to front.. Can't afford the cool stuff till we're too old to use it... :no:

Oh never a truer was spoken LOL!!! You are truly wise Oh great one!!

[camchain]

Cheers - interesting stuff Reckless. What's the reason for not running a clutch though, why not have one? Would've thought still a bit hard on gears especially (with amped-up youngsters) if downchanging too early? (E.g. My road going TL had some sort of slipper clutch deal for aggressive downshifts.)

Having never had a gearbox apart, interested to get an idea where main load is with a clutchless shift.

[Crisis management]

Having never had a gearbox apart, interested to get an idea where main load is with a clutchless shift.

Bike gearboxes are constant mesh..all the gears are always in mesh with their opposite gear so the "only" bits being loaded up are the gear dogs on the sides of the gears that interlock to drive through a particular gear set, with a clutchless shift you can't match engine & gear speeds so it's just a matter of forcing the dogs together.

What can possibly go wrong?

[Reckless]

Cheers - interesting stuff Reckless. What's the reason for not running a clutch though, why not have one?

Horsepower my friend LOL!! Think about it if you take the fan off a V8 you gain (is it??) 2 horsepower even on a big engine like that so removing the complete clutch basket off the end off the crank of a 125 ?? I can't remember the dyno figures its to long ago LOL!!


Bike gearboxes are constant mesh..all the gears are always in mesh with their opposite gear so the "only" bits being loaded up are the gear dogs on the sides of the gears that interlock to drive through a particular gear set, with a clutchless shift you can't match engine & gear speeds so it's just a matter of forcing the dogs together.

What can possibly go wrong?

We'd quickly punch down 2-4 gears nearly every corner in a sprint meeting and at Manfield we'd be flat out in 6th punch down one gear, no braking, and sling it onto the sweeper at the end of the straight at 120mph or so in the 125. The gear box ever missed a change, hit false neutral or any such carry one so they must be pretty good. Mind you it was a few years ago hopefully they are still making boxes as good now LOL!!!

Shit we've done a really good job of Hijacking this thread! LOL!!

[Crisis management]

An explanation of gearboxes....

http://www.gadgetjq.com/transmission.htm


Reckless, you're a rough bastard that doesn't appreciate good engineering :laugh:

[Reckless]

An explanation of gearboxes....

http://www.gadgetjq.com/transmission.htm

Good site!!


Reckless, you're a rough bastard that doesn't appreciate good engineering :laugh:

All in the name of speed my friend :laugh:!!!
We never knew to change to oil as I learned you guys do since I started dirt riding either? Maybe you guys have been conned by the oil companies? Although I do notice the fibers, aluminum plates in the clutch and the riding of the clutch (clutching) we do when we ride, do blacken the oil much much faster so I still change mine 5 hours earlier than the book recommends!

[andy 101]

http://ktmtalk.com/index.php?showtopic=390244

Here is a link to the dynaring testing on ktmtalk, I dont know wheather the link will work or not but worth a try.

[camchain]

Great info and answers gents. That gearbox page was good for me crisis, now I get the constant mesh thing / hooking different gears output shafts - cool.

Andy that KTMtalk link was well worth a look.
(for others if link no-worky, it's in the 2-stroke section - REVLOC Dyna Ring)

Auto to Man clutch with turn of a knob? $379 US, and 15 minute install too. Wow. Running fewer plates so probably faster wear, but still seems a pretty amazing device.

[marks]

I have a rekluse on my wr450 and I think the biggest benefit is that, in tight conditions, you don't tire out as quickly. As you get older your energy levels become the major limiting factor and I'm convinced I can ride for at least 25% longer on a auto clutch bike in tight conditions.

My son has a sx250 that we are looking at putting a revloc into so it will be interesting to see how that compares to the rekluse.

On steep hill climbs I struggle on the sx as its hard to keep that perfect point of traction where as the wr just tractors with the clutch slipping as and when needed.