250 gp bikes for f3

[crazy man]

seems a crazy thing to do when they are a f2 bike! l got told a japanese rider could get into the min 8's in the 90's at manfeld on one!

[JayRacer37]

seems a crazy thing to do when they are a f2 bike! l got told a japanese rider could get into the min 8's in the 90's at manfeld on one!

Wooohooo! Get those proper racebikes racing somewhere. The more bikes the merrier - and if it get's those enthusiast's 250's out of the garage awesome! They are also opening out the 650 twins rules to suit though I belive, so the playing feild should not be too far off level. 90's manfeild was a far better track (surface/grip) so I'm told than how it is now. Also lazy cyl'd 600's can really move.

Anyone got a mid 90's TZ250 they would like to sell?

[crazy man]

they would be better in the 125 class in a steped race as a seperate race. seen the 125s's are not so big

[JayRacer37]

they would be better in the 125 class in a steped race as a seperate race. seen the 125s's are not so big

But a 250 will absolutly wipe the floor with a 125. With a F3 Twin, like KB's own Glen Williams, or Terry Fitzgerald or Jason Easton, they all have around the 80hp mark, maybe a bit more, and all are getting very light with high quality frames and suspension. With parts prices and the avalibility of tuners in NZ, a 250 competing there is only going to be around the 75-80hp mark. It will have an advantage in weight. But if you look back over the last seasons 250's ran in NZ and compared their times to the F3 class at the same meetings, I think that most all of the time the F3 bikes would be winning. It will still come down to riders - it just gives another type of bike and therefore another intrest group somewhere to disply, ride and enjoy their racebikes. At the moment all they are doing is hiding in sheds, but this might be the incentive needed to get them out. If not, it won't make a difference either way :)

[crazy man]

all l know is there is a lot more 400's lying around than 250 gp bikes. they then should have pro twins with 400 4s!. ps l like a challenge dont like things handed to me!

[quallman1234]

But a 250 will absolutly wipe the floor with a 125. With a F3 Twin, like KB's own Glen Williams, or Terry Fitzgerald or Jason Easton, they all have around the 80hp mark, maybe a bit more, and all are getting very light with high quality frames and suspension. With parts prices and the avalibility of tuners in NZ, a 250 competing there is only going to be around the 75-80hp mark. It will have an advantage in weight. But if you look back over the last seasons 250's ran in NZ and compared their times to the F3 class at the same meetings, I think that most all of the time the F3 bikes would be winning. It will still come down to riders - it just gives another type of bike and therefore another intrest group somewhere to disply, ride and enjoy their racebikes. At the moment all they are doing is hiding in sheds, but this might be the incentive needed to get them out. If not, it won't make a difference either way :)

Agreed. The 125's/250's/350's/500's (If they are any), will be battling against each other in the "GP Class" @ TRRS.
Should be bloody cool watching (for me from inside the race itself) the new 125 riders verus the old men left on the other gp bikes. Hehe.

[steveyb]

seems a crazy thing to do when they are a f2 bike! l got told a japanese rider could get into the min 8's in the 90's at manfeld on one!

Typical half-baked comment.
NZ does not have a national Formula 2 class, so how does that comment help?
The bikes that the Japanese were riding back in the days of the Pan-Pacific series (bet you thought it was some club race) were not the same as the bikes we have available to us here.
Much closer to factory bikes than production bikes.

Have a look at the laptimes and see that in all reality, against modern 600s and the best riders riding 600, there is no competition.
Against modern F3 bikes they are competitive.
But I do agree that the latest model bikes would be too fast for F3 as it stands now.
Go on, get a 250 or blag a ride on one and see how you "get things handed to you".

[JayRacer37]

all l know is there is a lot more 400's lying around than 250 gp bikes. they then should have pro twins with 400 4s!. ps l like a challenge dont like things handed to me!

And 400's have had two classes for years (PC J & F3), yet they are still in the shed. They will also still be there in F3 - if people want to race them. It's like when 650's twins were allowed in. There is always going to be someone wanting it to be the same as it was in 1989. I think its great that there are some (any?) ideas out there to mix up what is becoming a group of quite stagnant classes.

[JayRacer37]

Typical half-baked comment.
NZ does not have a national Formula 2 class, so how does that comment help?
The bikes that the Japanese were riding back in the days of the Pan-Pacific series (bet you thought it was some club race) were not the same as the bikes we have available to us here.
Much closer to factory bikes than production bikes.

Have a look at the laptimes and see that in all reality, against modern 600s and the best riders riding 600, there is no competition.
Against modern F3 bikes they are competitive.
But I do agree that the latest model bikes would be too fast for F3 as it stands now.
Go on, get a 250 or blag a ride on one and see how you "get things handed to you".

Your dead right Steve. If it was bikes pre 98 (maybe 97 - when did the TZ's have the big upgrade?) they arn't going to have much if any advantage. And you need to have a decent rider to be getting the best out of them - or someone who is an enthusiast and gets a kick out of being able to race their bikes. The 250GP guys are a pretty hardcore crew...not much else is going to do it for them bike-wise eh Steve. You'll have to get the RS back out...

[crazy man]

for god sake work it out 600s then do l have to spell it to you! steveyb

[codgyoleracer]

Interesting idea that 250 thing - up side would be, More bikes in F3, More "fast bikes" in F3, More riders in racing generally, + adds a bit of spice and a few different noises to the norm of the last few years " Boom - Boom" . Downside, A modern one would a dot in the distance (when ridden half decently......... even Jay can punt one :-) ), Two strokes are being canned worldwide so should NZ be following ?, Will it bring new riders in or simply transfer existing ones to different machines ?.

Time will tell , but in my opinion it is definatley worth openly discussing the option and seeing what comes out in the wash.

Crazyman can re-call his glory days on 400's ! and getting his arse handed to him by 250GP bikes way back when, not sure that it would totally be the case now (if the same era 250s were out there against a hot Aprillia / SV / et all.

StevyB, how bout we restirct 250s to riders that are Hawaian shirt wearing ex surfi types, with high acedemic levels & who live in Wellywood....... ? ( ;-) )

[crazy man]

hotted up 250 prody bikes would be a good start. as l remember in the first 2 hour race at manfeild 2 tz 250s come home first and sec . bet the 1000s!

[JayRacer37]

hotted up 250 prody bikes would be a good start. as l remember in the first 2 hour race at manfeild 2 tz 250s come home first and sec . bet the 1000s!

They are still legal in F3...not competitive though, maybe against the 400's...

[Whitebait]

They are still legal in F3...not competitive though, maybe against the 400's...

My vote would be with relaxing the proddy rules for 250's if they are gonna let GP bike in there!

[lostinflyz]

as a point a competitive f3 bike will run you at least 20k to setup (as an absolute minimum/ well no ones done it for less but not many have done it)

how much pre 98 rs/tz could you get for that???? I imagine it would be quite alot. ok the setup and running costs are high-ish (probably not a whole lot more than my sxv will be though).

[lostinflyz]

My vote would be with relaxing the proddy rules for 250's if they are gonna let GP bike in there!

yea, let them have GP FRAMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[neil_cb125t]

hmmm the problem you def face - is that they are too much for f3 really.... it also destroys the idea of F3 - which is having a class to develope a machine. GP bikes are fully developed...... and illegal.... thats why there is so many rules against modding up your NSR.....

im pretty sure a RS250 won an F2 race a year or 2 ago.....

suppose im bias - seeing a 250 gp blast past me Legal F3 bike would piss me off - you want something like (modern and faster than everyone else), get an ozzy, least its legal.

[JayRacer37]

My vote would be with relaxing the proddy rules for 250's if they are gonna let GP bike in there!

Hell yeah, do what you want to the proddie bikes, surely!


as a point a competitive f3 bike will run you at least 20k to setup (as an absolute minimum/ well no ones done it for less but not many have done it)

how much pre 98 rs/tz could you get for that???? I imagine it would be quite alot. ok the setup and running costs are high-ish (probably not a whole lot more than my sxv will be though).

Yep plenty, and it will be a bloody nice bike too.


yea, let them have GP FRAMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hell, why not. And GP motors too!


seeing a 250 gp blast past me Legal F3 bike would piss me off - you want something like (modern and faster than everyone else), get an ozzy, least its legal.

The 250's will be too soon! You'll just have to get a new F3 bike or go PC racing only Neil! ;) Then your old bike will be able to keep up :)

[crazy man]

They are still legal in F3...not competitive though, maybe against the 400's...

thay have been left near stock not been alowed any cylinder modes

[neil_cb125t]

Is there some new rule i don't know about?? is this a discussion or a rule thats been changed without current F3 competitors been told??


The 250's will be too soon! You'll just have to get a new F3 bike or go PC racing only Neil! ;) Then your old bike will be able to keep up :)[/QUOTE]

As you can tell i get a bit pissed of - when i keep building bikes to the rules, while others buy ILLEGAL BIKES then complain the rules dont let them in...... F$%KEN BASTARDS

[lostinflyz]

nah man she's just a proposal and a pretty contentious one at that it would seem. In no way is this approved.

[Blackflagged]

New suggestion from a MNZ meeting discussion.



50 cent: .F3 is primarily for production based bikes,there will be more coming though.Relax rules for production 250 2t, by all means.Love two strokes, but there over and out in Moto Gp,a dead end. Move towards the future!Not obsolete present f3 bikes.

Also note Post classic Junior is a 600cc rule.

[satchriossi]

A 250GP bike such as an NX5 RS250 (that's the more common one with the single sided swingarm) with a fast rider on board would be way too fast for F3, you've only got to read up on the moto academy's website to see what laptimes Glen Skachill was doing on one. Here's a snippet from one of the race reports from 2008 on the website;

"Glen was getting into his work refining the 250 suspension after two meetings with the faster, more compliant rain settings. He ran a few laps in the low 1:13s - high 1:12s and declared that he was satsified."

HOWEVER, that's with a very talented rider on board and on the other hand you could note that last years winter series saw a modern TZ250 finishing mid pack in clubmans. So it really is down to who's riding it. This is always the case in club level racing, no matter where in the world you are.

So with that in mind i'd whole heartedly support GP bikes inclusion into F3. But that would have to mean open modifications for production based 250s and the legalisation of the Tyga 300 engine for NSRs.:shifty:

[Whitebait]

A 250GP bike such as an NX5 RS250 (that's the more common one with the single sided swingarm) with a fast rider on board would be way too fast for F3, you've only got to read up on the moto academy's website to see what laptimes Glen Skachill was doing on one. Here's a snippet from one of the race reports from 2008 on the website;

"Glen was getting into his work refining the 250 suspension after two meetings with the faster, more compliant rain settings. He ran a few laps in the low 1:13s - high 1:12s and declared that he was satsified."

HOWEVER, that's with a very talented rider on board and on the other hand you could note that last years winter series saw a modern TZ250 finishing mid pack in clubmans. So it really is down to who's riding it. This is always the case in club level racing, no matter where in the world you are.

So with that in mind i'd whole heartedly support GP bikes inclusion into F3. But that would have to mean open modifications for production based 250s and the legalisation of the Tyga 300 engine for NSRs.:shifty:

Relaxing the 250 rules would suit someone I know very well! ;)

Will be interesting to see what pans out!

Don't worry Neil you'll still be hauling arse on the 450!!

[budda]

the DRAFT new proposed rules for the various classes should be up on the MNZ website by Tuesday ....... the Road Race Commission is seeking CONSTRUCTIVE comments by the end of this month, so we can finalise the rules and get 'em ratified and in place by September 1st.
DONT need to know who thinks we're all dickheads, we want to make the best decisions for the future of OUR Sport, so feel free to do your bit too guys ...........

[steveyb]

A 250GP bike such as an NX5 RS250 (that's the more common one with the single sided swingarm) with a fast rider on board would be way too fast for F3, you've only got to read up on the moto academy's website to see what laptimes Glen Skachill was doing on one. Here's a snippet from one of the race reports from 2008 on the website;

"Glen was getting into his work refining the 250 suspension after two meetings with the faster, more compliant rain settings. He ran a few laps in the low 1:13s - high 1:12s and declared that he was satsified."

HOWEVER, that's with a very talented rider on board and on the other hand you could note that last years winter series saw a modern TZ250 finishing mid pack in clubmans. So it really is down to who's riding it. This is always the case in club level racing, no matter where in the world you are.

So with that in mind i'd whole heartedly support GP bikes inclusion into F3. But that would have to mean open modifications for production based 250s and the legalisation of the Tyga 300 engine for NSRs.:shifty:

Someone with a bit of sense, finally!!

[Cleve]

Great idea. F3 is meant to be a mixture of interesting bikes, roughly equal in competitiveness and up to individuals rider and technical skills to get the most of it. If it turns out that all of NZ's top riders turn up on 2009 Aprilia 250 GP bikes well then ... actually that would be quite cool to watch...

[crazy man]

l remember dennis charlotte racing a 92 rs 250 in the vic winter serious went out and did 11.5 to 1.12 at manfeild and dicked all the 600s at the time only took the bike out for a play. tires are a lot better 6 years down the track and would go faster now!

[Yow Ling]

l remember dennis charlotte racing a 92 rs 250 in the vic winter serious went out and did 11.5 to 1.12 at manfeild and dicked all the 600s at the time only took the bike out for a play. tires are a lot better 6 years down the track and would go faster now!
Everything is better now except 92 rs250's , 600s are way faster.

Sounds good to me, a class to ride my TZ in, other than post classic

[Billy]

.

So with that in mind i'd whole heartedly support GP bikes inclusion into F3. But that would have to mean open modifications for production based 250s and the legalisation of the Tyga 300 engine for NSRs.:shifty:

Well you just might be in luck,From the information I have recieved,It may be even slightly better than you require.As Budda has stated,The proposed rules should be up early next week,So make sure you give them some positive feedback

[slowpoke]

l remember dennis charlotte racing a 92 rs 250 in the vic winter serious went out and did 11.5 to 1.12 at manfeild and dicked all the 600s at the time only took the bike out for a play. tires are a lot better 6 years down the track and would go faster now!


Everything is better now except 92 rs250's , 600s are way faster.


Haha, too true and well stated.

[crazy man]

what lm saying is the lap record is 1.12 for f3 at manfeild and let a good rider can hope on a rs for a play and do that like years ago!

[Billy]

hotted up 250 prody bikes would be a good start. as l remember in the first 2 hour race at manfeild 2 tz 250s come home first and sec . bet the 1000s!
The first all in 2 hour race at Manfeild was held November 1994 Organised by myself and Mike Perrin,Run by Yak Knight on the day,Won by John Hepburn on a GSXR1100 with no brakes for the last 4 laps.Also,If Sadanora Hikita came here and rode Glens SV,Id bet hed be in the 10s or lower as well,Such was the calibre of the man,2nd that year in the All Japan 250gp championship and went to wildcard rides in the World championship and his bike was no out of the crate production RS either.Brilliant idea,Bring it on

[crazy man]

the tzs must of come home sec and third then. me last on my kr250 lol

[GSVR]

Been thinking a bit about this and if the 250GP bikes are are quick as some are saying then its only fair to let the four stroke twins out to 750.

That way 750 twins that aren't that competitive in F2 can race in with the F3 bikes as they would be slower than 250GP bikes right? And also let the old 900 two valve air cooled in as wel(already been done before at some clubs)

What sort of laptimes does Nick Prestige do on his 749?

[codgyoleracer]

The first all in 2 hour race at Manfeild was held November 1994 Organised by myself and Mike Perrin,Run by Yak Knight on the day,Won by John Hepburn on a GSXR1100 with no brakes for the last 4 laps.Also,If Sadanora Hikita came here and rode Glens SV,Id bet hed be in the 10s or lower as well,Such was the calibre of the man,2nd that year in the All Japan 250gp championship and went to wildcard rides in the World championship and his bike was no out of the crate production RS either.Brilliant idea,Bring it on

If he could do that on the SVR (which i dont doubt) -then I hate to think what he could do on a 250GP bike then......................

[lostinflyz]

Been thinking a bit about this and if the 250GP bikes are are quick as some are saying then its only fair to let the four stroke twins out to 750.

That way 750 twins that aren't that competitive in F2 can race in with the F3 bikes as they would be slower than 250GP bikes right? And also let the old 900 two valve air cooled in as wel(already been done before at some clubs)

What sort of laptimes does Nick Prestige do on his 749?


jesus, 250gp bikes vs 750 twins(non air cooled), thats not f3 thats a new class! everything in f3 at the moment would be irrelavent

[codgyoleracer]

749R and a 250 GP bike are probably pretty well matched , so i suppose if ones in then why not the other ?. Now how do i shoehorn that Duke mota into that frame.......... :-)

[satchriossi]

True; water cooled <750 twins would fit (to my mind) in F2, among the 600/4s, which as we've established, can be beaten by a 250GP bike with Sketchy on board. Therefore if we're letting 250GP bikes into F3 (which have the shear peformance to win F2), then why not let a Ducati 749 in?

Water cooled 750 twins vs water cooled 650 twins is blatantly not fair - particularly when you consider that the Ducati 749 is a supersports machine, whereas the SV Suzuki is a middle weight sports bike with a much more 'street biased' chassis and engine. As we've said, the 250 is way to fast for the class too - but as with all things in club level, it very much depends on who's riding it. Sketchy can win F2 on a GP250 whereas i couldn't win clubmans on one... The same would apply for a 749 Ducati.

You'd have to introduce a clubmans style laptime cut-off thing that let people race these high spec machines in F3, so long as their laptimes stayed beneath a pre-determined threshold.

[scracha]

Over-night they'll render most of the existing field uncompetitive for what.....a dead end technology. I wouldn't mind so much if they were changing the rules to bring in NEW and relevant bikes (a bit like they did when brining in SV650's) but this is just bloody stupid. 2 strokes are dead. Race the 250 GP's in F2 or if they're older, race them in posties, open twins or whatever.

[quickbuck]

Over-night they'll render most of the existing field uncompetitive for what.....a dead end technology. I wouldn't mind so much if they were changing the rules to bring in NEW and relevant bikes (a bit like they did when brining in SV650's) but this is just bloody stupid. 2 strokes are dead. Race the 250 GP's in F2 or if they're older, race them in posties, open twins or whatever.

I'm tending to agree with you there scracha.
In fact, how many more years do we have to wait until a pre 1995 class could be invented.... Then all the (not quite so) old smokers could run in that.
Then we could run the SuperSport (F2) CBR's.... Hell, they even have all the names to race.

[crazy man]

pre 1995 thats a cool idea:-}

[RDjase]

pre 1995 thats a cool idea:-}

Pre 95 and pre 89 race together and pre82 and pre72 in a separate postie race

[crazy man]

Pre 95 and pre 89 race together and pre82 and pre72 in a separate postie race

yes the good thing about that it would alowe these rs 250's in there. and alot of pre 95 bikes lyeing around

[scracha]

Pre 95 and pre 89 race together and pre82 and pre72 in a separate postie race
What...all 6 bikes?

[satchriossi]

pre 1995 thats a cool idea:-}

Agreed, that's an interesting idea - it'd be cool if it brought some old school blades and such out; superbikes that are totally outclassed by modern stuff, but would be top competitive machinery in a pre '95 class.

Has anyone else in the world run a class like that already?

[RDjase]

What...all 6 bikes?

The pre 82 and 72 dont turn up in big numbers coz racing with Pre89 isnt that much fun,

If you get pre95 the pre89 riders will be whinging about there better suspension and brakes.

If there was separate classes I would bring my TZR or RGV and race both classes, I prefer my pre82 bike tho

[crazy man]

l think its only the upside down forks are the main diffients the engines are similer i think up to 94 not much in brakes. all suspension can be up
graded anyway.

[codgyoleracer]

Typical half-baked comment.
NZ does not have a national Formula 2 class, so how does that comment help?
The bikes that the Japanese were riding back in the days of the Pan-Pacific series (bet you thought it was some club race) were not the same as the bikes we have available to us here.
Much closer to factory bikes than production bikes.

Have a look at the laptimes and see that in all reality, against modern 600s and the best riders riding 600, there is no competition.
Against modern F3 bikes they are competitive.
But I do agree that the latest model bikes would be too fast for F3 as it stands now.
Go on, get a 250 or blag a ride on one and see how you "get things handed to you".

Mostly true Steve, however on that theory then you would obviously allow carburetted 600's (mostly pre 2000) and bikes like the Ducati 748 into the class as they were the ones that competed with GP250 machines " in the day" - and got there butts handed to them by Glen Jefferies, Haden Bool & the like aye

[RDjase]

All the new rules for all classes are on the MNZ site now

http://www.mnz.co.nz/download/Proposed_RR_Rules_AppendixB_Sportbike.pdf

[nzkr1]

All the new rules for all classes are on the MNZ site now

http://www.mnz.co.nz/download/Proposed_RR_Rules_AppendixB_Sportbike.pdf

You got a spare 350 YPVS engine for my KR1 :shit:

[quickbuck]

The pre 82 and 72 dont turn up in big numbers coz racing with Pre89 isnt that much fun,

If you get pre95 the pre89 riders will be whinging about there better suspension and brakes.

If there was separate classes I would bring my TZR or RGV and race both classes, I prefer my pre82 bike tho

Bu&&er, I should have paitented the idea......

The way I see it is this:
Postie racing is all about looking like the period right? Now i know RDJase thinks all the plastic covered bikes look the same ;) (He said so this time last year).
SO, what do we do?? We get all the classic style of motorcycle and chuck them in with Faired bikes. Looks a bit od a shambles, and people are scrambling through their programmes to work out who is who, and what is what, and why are sooo many different looking bikes all racing together?? Is this Clubmans?? ..... I think you get the idea.

SO, why not run Pre 82, Pre72 etc in the same class... and yes, I believe more would find their way out there if there weren't this "Plastic" bikes on the grid....
And a seperate class for Pre 95 and Pre 89.... TBH, they almost look the same...
To keep in the spirit, ZX636 Farings will still be a no go..... Sorry Neil ;)

The Major difference started in 1996 IMHO with the GSXR750T. Then the rest followed. The Next mile stone was 2003 with the CBR600RR.... Course i'm talking Japanese here, as that is what I know.... But argubuly they lead the market anyway....

Just my 10 cents worth... Comments?

[Billy]

You got a spare 350 YPVS engine for my KR1 :shit:

If you read the rules properly George,You will notice the machine must retain the original chassis,IE you can 350 your KR1engine but you cant fit an LC engine too your KR1,Talk too me about it at Manfeild,I have a template to make all the later model 250s into 350s,Done one already(RGV) and the NSRs have the Tyga 300 kits available,Although technically these are illegal as they dont retain the original cylinder,If anybodys not happy,Make a sensible well constructed submission too MNZ

[nzkr1]

If you read the rules properly George,You will notice the machine must retain the original chassis,IE you can 350 your KR1engine but you cant fit an LC engine too your KR1,Talk too me about it at Manfeild,I have a template to make all the later model 250s into 350s,Done one already(RGV) and the NSRs have the Tyga 300 kits available,Although technically these are illegal as they dont retain the original cylinder,If anybodys not happy,Make a sensible well constructed submission too MNZ.

I thought I could just restamp the engine numbers :shutup:
This RGV you've already done, how much more power did it make?

[F5 Dave]

Hmm, does seem a bit odd they bother to include production 350s. Max reliable hp 70. A TZ250B (91) will do that. Be better if they allowed 410. Could slop on a CUB barrel (if aftermarket allowed).

I might be helping a friend move his 97/98? TZ out of his lounge room & down the stairs at this rate.

[Billy]

Hmm, does seem a bit odd they bother to include production 350s. Max reliable hp 70. A TZ250B (91) will do that. Be better if they allowed 410. Could slop on a CUB barrel (if aftermarket allowed).

.The rule reads "production based"and I assume is designed to make the 250 production based 250s more competitive and allow some of the guys like RD jase to run in F3 as well

[lostinflyz]

so as i see it you can have a 250 gp bike that will be more powerful than pretty well any 300 NSR/RGV you will make, and it can have a gp frame but a NSR/RGV can't??? except that your rs/tz has to run on pump fuel so itll blow up when your not winning.

thats silly.

man i hate writing letters

[quickbuck]

so as i see it you can have a 250 gp bike that will be more powerful than pretty well any 300 NSR/RGV you will make, and it can have a gp frame but a NSR/RGV can't??? except that your rs/tz has to run on pump fuel so itll blow up when your not winning.

thats silly.

man i hate writing letters
Yeah, so to sum up....
Restrictive as hell on one side of the coin... Turn it over.... and you have FULL HRC allowed if you want to burn some money...
Seems strange alright.

I know it is only a proposal ,BUT hell GP Bikes.. If anybody has one, why not the Pre 95 class that i dreamed up....
You know, like the All the Classic Race Bikes in the other classic classes...

[snapoff]

2002 Manfeild Nats 250/F3 Terry Fitzgerald best lap 1.15.0, Andy Bolwell 1.15.9 to very fast riders on the fastest F3 bikes of the day , Troy O'Donoghue on sumone else's spare and old honda 250gp 1.12.2 ,Kris Shirriffs honda 250gp 1.13.0 ,a very big gap in lap times ,this gap will still be there if not bigger 8years later .

[satchriossi]

Lol, yeah its all fun and games until someone brings one of these motherfuckers to the party;

<a href="http://s26.photobucket.com/albums/c134/hairmit/?action=view&current=garagephp-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c134/hairmit/garagephp-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

This is an NXA, the last customer version HRC made before discontinuing the RS250 line. I don't know if anyone in NZ even has one of these ones. RS cycles has one crated still for $27,000US i seem to remember if anyone's keen?

[quickbuck]

Lol, yeah its all fun and games until someone brings one of these motherfuckers to the party



$US27000 = $NZ38000... plus a little bit for freight...
Stuff it... Dan, the Ninja deal is off... I'm going F3!!!!
Watch out Chappy :)

[Ozzy27]

Lol, yeah its all fun and games until someone brings one of these motherfuckers to the party;

<a href="http://s26.photobucket.com/albums/c134/hairmit/?action=view&current=garagephp-1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c134/hairmit/garagephp-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

This is an NXA, the last customer version HRC made before discontinuing the RS250 line. I don't know if anyone in NZ even has one of these ones. RS cycles has one crated still for $27,000US i seem to remember if anyone's keen?

Anthony Mcarthy has an NXA 250 in his shed in Christchurch Jay lawerence rode it a couple of years ago.
Attached is a dyno Graph of my own NX5 250 on Av gas Anthony's NXA on 98 unleaded and my 450 as Glen Rode it last year. Remember the 450 is 50-60kgs heavier than the 250's.
Now which bike would you Choose???:bye:

[quickbuck]

Now which bike would you Choose???:bye:

Well, that makes it bloody easy..... Holy cow! Impressive plots...
Still, I guess you still have to be able to ride one.
I guess this lady (http://www.prorider.co.nz/motorcycle-training-coaching.php?page=90) may be able to teach me a thing or two... ;)

[Mishy]

:) I'd take 83hp with that curve !
that was always a pretty good engine - good enough to win 250 GP races at National level even on a bad day, and with a fatty on board.
It's still basically not far from a stock, out of the crate model. A kitted bike of some sort would just make our one look stupid.

[codgyoleracer]

Anthony Mcarthy has an NXA 250 in his shed in Christchurch Jay lawerence rode it a couple of years ago.
Attached is a dyno Graph of my own NX5 250 on Av gas Anthony's NXA on 98 unleaded and my 450 as Glen Rode it last year. Remember the 450 is 50-60kgs heavier than the 250's.
Now which bike would you Choose???:bye:

As i said in an earlier post:

It s a " no brainer" , these words fit well with the one suggesting the concept.

[neil_cb125t]

So its agreed that the 250s are way ahead of any production based bike.... funny that - so what can we do about it??

do we complain to MNZ ??

i actually don't mind the proddy 2 smokers going to 350 not a bad plan at all -

[F5 Dave]

You club rep what is going to the MNZ meeting to vote on it.

So ignoring the GP bikes,
An RGV taken to 300 apparently pull 70, . . . while the crank & gearbox last. Hard to take them any further. That should make them sort of competitive. The only 350 is the poor old RZ & it will pull 70hp if tuned right, but need a decent chassis or all for naught. VS a top handling modern bike with more kilos but a wide spread of more power.

They would need free reign on chassis.

[neil_cb125t]

You club rep what is going to the MNZ meeting to vote on it.

So ignoring the GP bikes,
An RGV taken to 300 apparently pull 70, . . . while the crank & gearbox last. Hard to take them any further. That should make them sort of competitive. The only 350 is the poor old RZ & it will pull 70hp if tuned right, but need a decent chassis or all for naught. VS a top handling modern bike with more kilos but a wide spread of more power.

They would need free reign on chassis.

Yeah the 350 limit to an RGV i think is fine - it would be more on the lines of the INTENT of F3 - production based bikes that are formulated or modifying for racing....it also matches the 650cc lines more as a 300 -350 2 smoke is closer to a 650 4 stroke ( as close as a road based one will ever be ) a 250cc road bike had very little chance against a 650.....


My VJ23 - RGV250 had 65RWHP was quite hot but never lasted a race.... 70 would be achieveable for sure. You get a hot NSR with some nice wheels and some good tuning and you would have some good fun. I've seen An aprrilia Rs250 ( older one ) at 73hp with arrow pipes and some good old porting....


A GP bike just doesn't fit f3 - If the 250 GP riders got together and went to nationals - they could get there class back. how many would there be in the country?? it would be a nice steup up FROM F3!!

[Billy]

You club rep what is going to the MNZ meeting to vote on it.

So ignoring the GP bikes,
An RGV taken to 300 apparently pull 70, . . . while the crank & gearbox last. Hard to take them any further. That should make them sort of competitive. The only 350 is the poor old RZ & it will pull 70hp if tuned right, but need a decent chassis or all for naught. VS a top handling modern bike with more kilos but a wide spread of more power.

They would need free reign on chassis.

Wrong!!Make an informed and sensible submission too MNZ and the roadrace commission will consider it,

M y old VJ22 (ex Grant Ramage/Suzuki NZ) produced 72 rwhp,Stage 1 ignition,Sagaya pipes,Robert Taylor porting and a few other mods including boring the carbs too 35mm and raising the port timing.A 350 tuned properly should produce around 80 rwhp,But it wouldnt be cheap to build by any stretch

[F5 Dave]

As far as I'm aware they (RGV) don't go out past 300 easily. By 350 are you meaning RZ?

[Maido]

Anthony Mcarthy has an NXA 250 in his shed in Christchurch Jay lawerence rode it a couple of years ago.
Attached is a dyno Graph of my own NX5 250 on Av gas Anthony's NXA on 98 unleaded and my 450 as Glen Rode it last year. Remember the 450 is 50-60kgs heavier than the 250's.
Now which bike would you Choose???:bye:

I know where there is one of these for sale in the South Island if anyone wants one. It is a minter!
Also, My 2000 RS250 model was putting out about 78hp STD, so that appears to run inline with what mr McCarthy's one puts out. I sold mine to a guy in Washington USA, cos noone over here wanted it! Man I forgot how cool these look, also they are probably the easiest bikes in the world to work on, honestly everything about them is so nice!

oh, FYI, Mr Beck had 2 TZ 250's, one here and a higher spec on in Japan. He ran his one here through a flying quarter just before he sold it and it did 264kph, my 2004 CBR600 did 262.

I would be getting a 250....

[Whitebait]

For sale: Nice 3 bedroom house in Wanganui.....................HHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

P.s Rossi do you wanna buy a share in that NXA??

[Billy]

As far as I'm aware they (RGV) don't go out past 300 easily. By 350 are you meaning RZ?

Nope,Built an RGV350 in 05 but never bothered to develop it as there was no class for it outside of supersport

[Billy]

As i said in an earlier post:

It s a " no brainer" , these words fit well with the one suggesting the concept.

Assuming your talking about the commission member that put the idea of 250gp machinery in F3,You should also know that person wanted the rules relaxed around the air intakes of the 650s and was denied

[satchriossi]

I know where there is one of these for sale in the South Island if anyone wants one. It is a minter!

I wouldn't mind knowing how much the owner wants for it even though its bound to be way more than i can afford... These seem to be fetching mega money whenever they come up for sale. I'm hoping that once the Irish ban them from their road racing championships a load of NX5s and NXAs will come up for sale relatively cheapish. *Fingers crossed*.

Thanks for the graphs Ozzy, those are some strong motors!

[dave o]

dunno if you guys have seen this before.
this is part 1, links to part 2 after. some good ol' tz250 action. vs rc30 and rocket ron on his 500 and the norton rotary.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVVoHKlbN1Q

[satchriossi]

AWESOME. How ruthlessly fast was the 500!?

[codgyoleracer]

Assuming your talking about the commission member that put the idea of 250gp machinery in F3,You should also know that person wanted the rules relaxed around the air intakes of the 650s and was denied

Ahh, Yes I know........ - that was one of a number of suggestions made if the GP250 idea was going to be floored originally. Now i wonder who that was...........:shutup:

[lostinflyz]

I wouldn't mind knowing how much the owner wants for it even though its bound to be way more than i can afford... These seem to be fetching mega money whenever they come up for sale. I'm hoping that once the Irish ban them from their road racing championships a load of NX5s and NXAs will come up for sale relatively cheapish. *Fingers crossed*.

Thanks for the graphs Ozzy, those are some strong motors!

i know the NW200 no longer has a 250 class and its only a couple of years before they go else where. There has been quite a few nx5's and a couple of nxa's on ebay over the last 9-10 months.

[crazy man]

Assuming your talking about the commission member that put the idea of 250gp machinery in F3,You should also know that person wanted the rules relaxed around the air intakes of the 650s and was deniedwhat for 2 hp more lol

[jasonu]

749R and a 250 GP bike are probably pretty well matched , so i suppose if ones in then why not the other ?. Now how do i shoehorn that Duke mota into that frame.......... :-)

Yes, and let the hot rod 600/4's in and call it F2 (no disrespect intended)

[RDjase]

Bu&&er, I should have paitented the idea......

The way I see it is this:
Postie racing is all about looking like the period right? Now i know RDJase thinks all the plastic covered bikes look the same ;) (He said so this time last year).
SO, what do we do?? We get all the classic style of motorcycle and chuck them in with Faired bikes. Looks a bit od a shambles, and people are scrambling through their programmes to work out who is who, and what is what, and why are sooo many different looking bikes all racing together?? Is this Clubmans?? ..... I think you get the idea.

SO, why not run Pre 82, Pre72 etc in the same class... and yes, I believe more would find their way out there if there weren't this "Plastic" bikes on the grid....
And a seperate class for Pre 95 and Pre 89.... TBH, they almost look the same...
To keep in the spirit, ZX636 Farings will still be a no go..... Sorry Neil ;)

The Major difference started in 1996 IMHO with the GSXR750T. Then the rest followed. The Next mile stone was 2003 with the CBR600RR.... Course i'm talking Japanese here, as that is what I know.... But argubuly they lead the market anyway....

Just my 10 cents worth... Comments?

+1 !

I could race my 95 Duke Monster too :yes:

There are alot of Postie racers with a pre82 AND a Pre89 bike.

The new proposed changes to the 350 2stroke sound good. I havnt done many Vic Club rounds as my LC350 can only do one class, yet 1/2 the postie feild is pre89 bikes I race with any way.

[RDjase]

You club rep what is going to the MNZ meeting to vote on it.

So ignoring the GP bikes,
An RGV taken to 300 apparently pull 70, . . . while the crank & gearbox last. Hard to take them any further. That should make them sort of competitive. The only 350 is the poor old RZ & it will pull 70hp if tuned right, but need a decent chassis or all for naught. VS a top handling modern bike with more kilos but a wide spread of more power.

They would need free reign on chassis.

The RZ is a great engine and cheap to repair, New cranks are $600.

It makes sense to allow the use of Yamahagammas, Kwakaha's and TZR350's in F3, and most of these bikes can race on Pre89 as well

The RZ frame is just to old and heavy to be competitive

Top marks to MNZ for getting the proposed rules happening, Just about right IMHO

Submission writting time now

[RDjase]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/125441-MNZ-Submission-s-Due-in-before-July-!

Submissions only have till the end of June to be in !

[RDjase]

The rules are out

http://nzsbk.blogspot.com/2010/07/superlite-regulations-2011.html

400 2 Stroke :yes:

No GP bikes

[Yow Ling]

Mine is coming along slowly

214617

[k14]

The rules are out

http://nzsbk.blogspot.com/2010/07/superlite-regulations-2011.html

400 2 Stroke :yes:

No GP bikes
The perfect result, now we might see some crazy bastard try get a RD400 running in a better frame!

[RDjase]

The perfect result, now we might see some crazy bastard try get a RD400 running in a better frame!

Just stretch a RZ engine, lots of goodies available for them, handy there the same engine as a banshee;)

Skunk will be able to race his RD400 powered ZXR250:yes:

[scracha]

The perfect result, now we might see some crazy bastard try get a RD400 running in a better frame!
Hmm...does "production based" mean that engine swaps can be done? If so an NSR400 engine in RGV250 frame sounds like a plan.

Oh well....that's the hordes who've spent lots of money big boring their 400 4's fucked.

[RDjase]

Hmm...does "production based" mean that engine swaps can be done? If so an NSR400 engine in RGV250 frame sounds like a plan.

Oh well....that's the hordes who've spent lots of money big boring their 400 4's fucked.

The proposed rules said that 350 2T MUST use original frame and swing arm, which means RZ350 is tha latest bike you could use. The new rules have no mention of using original frames so repowers of any sort are allowed? There are a few repowered bikes out racing anyway
The rules sort of read as long as it has production cases and a production bike you can fit what ever engine into any frame

Will ask MNZ when it is on there site

Have you got a NSR engine and a RGV ? be a nice combo

[scracha]

The proposed rules said that 350 2T MUST use original frame and swing arm, which means RZ350 is tha latest bike you could use. The new rules have no mention of using original frames so repowers of any sort are allowed? There are a few repowered bikes out racing anyway
The rules sort of read as long as it has production cases and a production bike you can fit what ever engine into any frame

Will ask MNZ when it is on there site

Have you got a NSR engine and a RGV ? be a nice combo

Saw a tatty one in the UK. Good handling (the NSR400 is too old), weighed fuck all and reliable and not too peaky 76bhp.

[satchriossi]

i didn't spot any restrictions on after market fairings or using bodywork that doesn't resemble the original production bike's silouette. Did anyone see anything i might've missed or is it looking like Tyga bodykits (for exmaple) are all good under the new rules?

[codgyoleracer]

i didn't spot any restrictions on after market fairings or using bodywork that doesn't resemble the original production bike's silouette. Did anyone see anything i might've missed or is it looking like Tyga bodykits (for exmaple) are all good under the new rules?

Narp, looks like thats been dropped, all good to get artistic !

[ahamay]

So, am I totally blind or do these rules mean the 250GP bikes have been given the boot and now have no class to run in?

[satchriossi]

You're not supposed to use them in F3 but as far as i understand, you never were allowed so nowt's changed there. Theyre all good to use in F1 or, more appropriately, F2 where of course Glen Skachill used an NX5 RS250 to win a race a couple of years ago. Clubmans is fine and there's the dude with the TZ250 (you?) running in those races.

[Billy]

i didn't spot any restrictions on after market fairings or using bodywork that doesn't resemble the original production bike's silouette. Did anyone see anything i might've missed or is it looking like Tyga bodykits (for exmaple) are all good under the new rules?

Yip,Bodywork will be optional,I have a brand new set of Tyga NSR500 replica bodywork to fit MC21/28 complete with screen for sale $750.00 if anybodys interested

[steveyb]

Yip,Bodywork will be optional,I have a brand new set of Tyga NSR500 replica bodywork to fit MC21/28 complete with screen for sale $750.00 if anybodys interested

COOOL!!!! Which year Billy?

Isin't it amazing how desire or enthusiasm turns one thing into another in people minds.
For some reason some people thought that 250GP bikes had been included into the F3 class (at NZSBK level), and did not understand that it was only a proposal!
That proposal has been quashed and 250GP bikes will not be included in the F3 class at NZSBK level.
On the other hand, what clubs want to do is up to them.

Having said that, it was possible to buy a pretty tricked up Japanese F3 250 proddy bike from Japan back in the day that would be as close as it is possible to make a proddy bike to a 250GP bike. Jarrod Wintle had one at one stage even if it didn't go so well at the time. Maybe some of those are still around?

Also, I have not yet got my head around the rules, but maybe this bike (in 400cc version, not 500cc) will be eligible???
It uses production cases and a production chassis, although from different manufacturers. Check it out!!!
Designed and manufactured in NZ and Australia. Can't do better than that ay?

www.twostrokeshop.com

[Billy]

COOOL!!!! Which year Billy?

Isin't it amazing how desire or enthusiasm turns one thing into another in people minds.
For some reason some people thought that 250GP bikes had been included into the F3 class (at NZSBK level), and did not understand that it was only a proposal!
That proposal has been quashed and 250GP bikes will not be included in the F3 class at NZSBK level.
On the other hand, what clubs want to do is up to them.

Having said that, it was possible to buy a pretty tricked up Japanese F3 250 proddy bike from Japan back in the day that would be as close as it is possible to make a proddy bike to a 250GP bike. Jarrod Wintle had one at one stage even if it didn't go so well at the time. Maybe some of those are still around?

Also, I have not yet got my head around the rules, but maybe this bike (in 400cc version, not 500cc) will be eligible???
It uses production cases and a production chassis, although from different manufacturers. Check it out!!!
Designed and manufactured in NZ and Australia. Can't do better than that ay?

www.twostrokeshop.com

Err,Not sure,They must be reasonably late model though,They are a copy of a set Leon Haslam used at the Malaysian GP.

Re the multi cylinder 2 stroke rules for F3,Ihave serious doubts they will be ratified by the board in their current format as they are just a step too far,I have seen one of those Aprilia/Banshee engined machines dynoed locally and it was producing in excess of 100 rwhp.Plonk that in an RS or TZ chassis as the current proposed rules allow and youd have a seriously fast F3 machine

[bloodnut]

Sounds like some sense at last, having a class were kiwis can build and race there own creations is long overdue as there are many talented builders in NZ.

I also think this class will create alot of public interested with all of the different styles of 4 strokes and of course getting some 2 strokes back out there.

Heres my entry...

[Deano]

That is a trick looking NSR bro !!

[satchriossi]

Sounds like some sense at last, having a class were kiwis can build and race there own creations is long overdue as there are many talented builders in NZ.

I also think this class will create alot of public interested with all of the different styles of 4 strokes and of course getting some 2 strokes back out there.

Heres my entry...

NICE!! So that's a Suzuki RGV frame and swingarm, NS400R motor, presumably a bespoke exhaust system, Tyga footrests, Ohlins 46HRCL remote resevoir shock but where, or what did the wheels, forks and brakes come from?? The seat cowl looks Tyga shaped but the subtle differences make me wonder if its a one off, self supporting unit?

Well done on the project so far! Not that i'd want to block you from using it for racing but are the miss-matched engine and frame legal for F3? The KR1 dude was straight in there voicing his objection to my 300 kitted NSR before it was all made legal so he's probs not gonna be impressed with your Honzuki if it isnt strictly kosher!

Aren't those NS triples good for making about 70 horsepower at the crank? Have you done anything special with the airboxes? Are there HRC parts that work with that engine at all?

[Whitebait]

Sounds like some sense at last, having a class were kiwis can build and race there own creations is long overdue as there are many talented builders in NZ.

I also think this class will create alot of public interested with all of the different styles of 4 strokes and of course getting some 2 strokes back out there.

Heres my entry...

That looks awesome! Keep up the good work.

Will look forward to seeing what comes out of the woodwork in the next year or so with these new rules.

[bloodnut]

NICE!! So that's a Suzuki RGV frame and swingarm, NS400R motor, presumably a bespoke exhaust system, Tyga footrests, Ohlins 46HRCL remote resevoir shock but where, or what did the wheels, forks and brakes come from?? The seat cowl looks Tyga shaped but the subtle differences make me wonder if its a one off, self supporting unit?

Well done on the project so far! Not that i'd want to block you from using it for racing but are the miss-matched engine and frame legal for F3? The KR1 dude was straight in there voicing his objection to my 300 kitted NSR before it was all made legal so he's probs not gonna be impressed with your Honzuki if it isnt strictly kosher!

Aren't those NS triples good for making about 70 horsepower at the crank? Have you done anything special with the airboxes? Are there HRC parts that work with that engine at all?

Hey,

Correct on the engine and frame, the forks are FG348's ohlins made for the 07-08 gsxr1000, the front brakes are 290mm Brembo racing cast iron discs made for a late model rs250r, mated to Fireblade calipers and a Nissin Factory 19mm radial m/cyl (off a puka 500GP bike). The front wheel is a magnesuim RS250r rim 3.5x17, the rear is 5.25 Marchesini made for a rs250r 5.25x17.

The engine has been Wobbly tuned with cr125 barrels modified to fit, basically every part of the engine is modified or improved.

The rear seat is self-supporting kevlar/carbon based on the last of the nsr500 tails. Custom made by myself with much help from Dilz and Drew.

Should be up and running this side of xmas.

Cheers

[Maido]

Hey,

Correct on the engine and frame, the forks are FG348's ohlins made for the 07-08 gsxr1000, the front brakes are 290mm Brembo racing cast iron discs made for a late model rs250r, mated to Fireblade calipers and a Nissin Factory 19mm radial m/cyl (off a puka 500GP bike). The front wheel is a magnesuim RS250r rim 3.5x17, the rear is 5.25 Marchesini made for a rs250r 5.25x17.

The engine has been Wobbly tuned with cr125 barrels modified to fit, basically every part of the engine is modified or improved.

The rear seat is self-supporting kevlar/carbon based on the last of the nsr500 tails. Custom made by myself with much help from Dilz and Drew.

Should be up and running this side of xmas.

Cheers

Very impressive!

[satchriossi]

HOLY SHIT. I love the carbon airbox, does it fully seal to the underside of the tank? Will it be fed by a ram air duct? Is the tank carbon/kevlar too?

Have you got some proper exhaust gaskets sussed to stop black jizz running out the headers? Its gonna make a proper mess coming out of the the rear facing cylinder. I use a combination of these metal/fibre gaskets from supercheap auto and Threebond 1207B to make a good seal that lasts and resists virbration.

That front end is pure SEX mate. And it thought sliding an RVF fork into my MC21 was cool...

[gimpy]

Hey,

Correct on the engine and frame, the forks are FG348's ohlins made for the 07-08 gsxr1000, the front brakes are 290mm Brembo racing cast iron discs made for a late model rs250r, mated to Fireblade calipers and a Nissin Factory 19mm radial m/cyl (off a puka 500GP bike). The front wheel is a magnesuim RS250r rim 3.5x17, the rear is 5.25 Marchesini made for a rs250r 5.25x17.

The engine has been Wobbly tuned with cr125 barrels modified to fit, basically every part of the engine is modified or improved.

The rear seat is self-supporting kevlar/carbon based on the last of the nsr500 tails. Custom made by myself with much help from Dilz and Drew.

Should be up and running this side of xmas.

Cheers

Thats cool, cant wait to see it going.

[Ivan]

Now that is Nice have you ran it properly? does it rev like no tommorow 3 CR125 barrels is impressive those CR's go like snot let alone 3 of them

[dilz]

Hey,

Correct on the engine and frame, the forks are FG348's ohlins made for the 07-08 gsxr1000, the front brakes are 290mm Brembo racing cast iron discs made for a late model rs250r, mated to Fireblade calipers and a Nissin Factory 19mm radial m/cyl (off a puka 500GP bike). The front wheel is a magnesuim RS250r rim 3.5x17, the rear is 5.25 Marchesini made for a rs250r 5.25x17.

The engine has been Wobbly tuned with cr125 barrels modified to fit, basically every part of the engine is modified or improved.

The rear seat is self-supporting kevlar/carbon based on the last of the nsr500 tails. Custom made by myself with much help from Dilz and Drew.

Should be up and running this side of xmas.

Cheers

:rolleyes: oh no,now look what youve gone and started :drool:

[steveyb]

Now, where did you put those barrels again??????........

He's been saying it will be running this side of Xmas for years. Which Xmas will that be then Jarred???

:innocent:

I got the '89 RS250 finished last week, so maybe this side of Xmas I'll take it out for a spin too.

Later.

Steve