Tickets for 4km/h over the speed limit this Queens Birthday weekend

[Patrick]

Aw, ya meanie, there was bound to have been some good trolling could have been had from that 'fact' ya jst shot down...

DOH.... Didn't think of that....

Blardy Cabin Fever...!!!

[HenryDorsetCase]

The thing is, this "policy" will be hailed as a success. Not mentioning the fact that the weather has kept most of us tucked up in bed going "Hell with that for a game of soldiers"

[Sentox]

The thing is, this "policy" will be hailed as a success. Not mentioning the fact that the weather has kept most of us tucked up in bed going "Hell with that for a game of soldiers"

It was inevitably going to be the case though. The police's speeding statistics operate in a world of ceteris paribus that would make a first year econ major green with envy. Lower road toll = direct result of the lowered tolerance. Higher road toll = lowered tolerance prevented it from being even worse.

[cowboyz]

so has anyone been booked on the weekend for less than 10 k over the limit?

[Virago]

The thing is, this "policy" will be hailed as a success. Not mentioning the fact that the weather has kept most of us tucked up in bed going "Hell with that for a game of soldiers"

This has already happened - as expected:

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/7359586/queens-birthday-road-toll-on-course-for-54-year-low/

Alas, the police hierarchy will always use statistical blips to justify further draconian revenue gathering.

There will always be occasional bad weekends on the roads. One crash involving a People Mover or SUV can add several bodies to the weekend toll. But at the end of the year, it will all balance out. Yet again, police have used such statistically high figures to justify this move. As expected, this weekend's holiday toll is lower, and they have triumphantly declared that this measure has reduced the road toll. It's crap.

When the next statistically high holiday road toll occurs, there will be no admission that the changes didn't work. It will simply be an opportunity foist further revenue gathering nonsense on the public.

Reducing the tolerance to within 4% of the limit will simply result in many accidental breaches and subsequent infringements, due to normal speed fluctuations which happen on our roads. Gleefully pinging Mr or Mrs Lawful for negligable infringements at the bottom of dips in the road or at the end of passing lanes, will do NOTHING for road safety.

The real speedsters (those travelling at over 110km/h) are not affected by this change. They took the risk of being caught before, and that risk hasn't changed. They will continue to speed as before.

I am usually law-abiding on the roads, choosing to generally travel at the speed limit. But this illogical transfer of blame is pissing me off.

[Toaster]

It is no different to economists predictions. If the result reflects what they wanted, they say it is a success. If not, then they blame something else as a mitigant.

[Berries]

Well this is a bit of a surprise: Passing or attempting to pass where no-passing lines are marked on the road: 35 points

I've heard officialdom refering to them as "no passing" lines before, but I've also understood that they were, in fact "no crossing" lines.

Anyone care to clarify?

Road User Rule -
2.9 Passing where roadway marked with no-passing line
(1) This clause applies if a driver is at or approaching a portion of a roadway where the road controlling authority has, in accordance with any enactment, marked a no-passing line applying
to traffic moving in the direction in which the driver is moving.
(2) The driver must not pass or attempt to pass a motor vehicle or an animal-drawn vehicle moving in the same direction within the length of roadway on which the no-passing line is marked until the driver reaches the further end of the no-passing line, unless throughout the passing movement the driver keeps the vehicle wholly to the left of the no-passing line.

So yes, you can overtake where no passing lines are marked, as long as you don't go over the line. I do it in slow moving traffic sometimes, if I am in a hurry, but wouldn't do it on the open road, purely because you'll piss the car driver off or scare him enough to *555, and there will be overtaking opportunities soon enough.

[crystalball]

i just went for a short trip from papakura to huntly today. now i gota be carfull as caint aford to get pulled over untill im sorted (2moro =]) so i rode at 100km. now i did notice that there are alot of people whom driving at 90 to 95km on highway. so o.k thats all kool but i noticed when pulling into next lane to overtake them they would speed up to make you have to speed up. now im not prepared to do this so at one stage i had one car drive right up my rear end like 2 metres behind me because he wanted to get in front as well. e.t.c another time on motorway this weekend i had a car do same thing. 90km so i gop to over take then get in front then he speed up and over take me and then get in front and slow down. like cat and mouse. i find this road rule to be good for the road toll but not good for over taking.

[Ocean1]

I do it in slow moving traffic sometimes, if I am in a hurry, but wouldn't do it on the open road, purely because you'll piss the car driver off or scare him enough to *555, and there will be overtaking opportunities soon enough.

Cheers, that was my understanding. Seems sorta dishonest to call 'em no-passing lines then eh?

And yes I do it reasonably often, depends more on the "body language" of the passe' than anything else. Some of 'em move over just that tad that says "yup, go" and some stay lurking out by the cantreline.

[cold comfort]

This has already happened - as expected:

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/7359586/queens-birthday-road-toll-on-course-for-54-year-low/

Alas, the police hierarchy will always use statistical blips to justify further draconian revenue gathering.

There will always be occasional bad weekends on the roads. As expected, this weekend's holiday toll is lower, and they have triumphantly declared that this measure has reduced the road toll. It's crap
When the next statistically high holiday road toll occurs, there will be no admission that the changes didn't work. It will simply be an opportunity foist further revenue gathering nonsense on the public.

Reducing the tolerance to within 4% of the limit will simply result in many accidental breaches and subsequent infringements, due to normal speed fluctuations which happen on our roads. Gleefully pinging Mr or Mrs Lawful for negligable infringements at the bottom of dips in the road or at the end of passing lanes, will do NOTHING for road safety.
I am usually law-abiding on the roads, choosing to generally travel at the speed limit. But this illogical transfer of blame is pissing me off.

Couldn't agree more. Plenty of variables. People driving slower due threat of ridiculous response, rubbish weather, maybe lower traffic volumes. I for one avoid going anywhere on long weekends due to this sort of nonsense and the clowns on the road.

[quickbuck]

i find this road rule to be good for the road toll but not good for over taking.

Nope, not even good for the road toll....
See, these games of Cat and Mouse can end up in two dissimilar vehicles tangling together....

[miloking]

This has already happened - as expected:

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/7359586/queens-birthday-road-toll-on-course-for-54-year-low/

Alas, the police hierarchy will always use statistical blips to justify further draconian revenue gathering.

There will always be occasional bad weekends on the roads. One crash involving a People Mover or SUV can add several bodies to the weekend toll. But at the end of the year, it will all balance out. Yet again, police have used such statistically high figures to justify this move. As expected, this weekend's holiday toll is lower, and they have triumphantly declared that this measure has reduced the road toll. It's crap.

When the next statistically high holiday road toll occurs, there will be no admission that the changes didn't work. It will simply be an opportunity foist further revenue gathering nonsense on the public.

Reducing the tolerance to within 4% of the limit will simply result in many accidental breaches and subsequent infringements, due to normal speed fluctuations which happen on our roads. Gleefully pinging Mr or Mrs Lawful for negligable infringements at the bottom of dips in the road or at the end of passing lanes, will do NOTHING for road safety.

The real speedsters (those travelling at over 110km/h) are not affected by this change. They took the risk of being caught before, and that risk hasn't changed. They will continue to speed as before.

I am usually law-abiding on the roads, choosing to generally travel at the speed limit. But this illogical transfer of blame is pissing me off.

Well thats good for me as i like to travel bit faster than 110 sometimes, so while our almighty fuzz is busy giving that 56km/h ticket to Mrs."Never had ticket her whole life" once they chased her down in her people mover or VeeDub Beetle...at least they wont pay as much unwanted attention to me.
Otherwise yeah the campaign must have been complete success because there cant be any other reasons why there wasnt enough people on the road this weekend....yeah right!

Considering how much they lie to us i wouldnt be surprised that there isnt some car rolled in ditch full of dead people, covered with tarpaulin waiting to be "discovered" on tuesday morning...but i guess that would make me conspiracy theorist and there are much..much easier way to fudge stats :( (ehm...ACC...)


And one more thing even this lame quiz from stuff explains this weekends low road toll clearly but our retarded police still believes their 4km/h tolerance saved the world!

[MSTRS]

So...one fatality (apparently).
How many crashes were there, compared to 'normal'? And what kind were they?
Easter's carnage was mostly down to head-ons. Dropping 10kph collectively wouldn't stop the deaths. As we've said, that was a statistical anomaly. And so was this weekend. Normal service will not resume shortly, because it was never interrupted.

[flyingcrocodile46]

I think we are perhaps missing the point a little ourselves.

I don't believe that anybody (police incl) think that a 4-5kph speed reduction is going to save lives. It is more likely that the objective is to simply drive home the message that exceeding the speed limit by any amount is unacceptable and they are simply attempting to make us fear the consequences of speeding (via fines and demerit points) because we haven't responded so well to the advertising campaign aimed at making us fear the death and damages consequences of speeding (in their opinion).

Not that I agree with their approach. Just voicing the possibility that the logic behind their moves is not founded in the belief that 4 or 5kph speed reduction in itself is the answer so much as the need to change our perceived (in their opinion) ignorance of the consequences of speeding.

[Ixion]

The telling news report in Auckland is the one that didn't happen.

Normally on a holiday weekend there are reports in the press of the giant traffioc jams, usually with pictures of motionless queues of traffic.

No such reports this time. presumably becasue there was no congestion. Q. E. D

[oldrider]

It appears there was much less traffic on the roads over the weekend, mainly due to the crappy weather!

Those that were out and about were able to use the road much more clearly and get to their destination without undue hold up or delay.

Clearer roads less need to speed so improve the roads. :yes:

Broad (overweight) Howard and his claim that the closer margin of speed error and closer attention to it by police would have been a fail as a test over that weekend because nothing was normal!

They will grab it like a dog with a bone and manufacture all manner of statistics to back up their claims and their field staff will have to wear the brunt of the public backlash once again!

Bullshit just breeds bullshit whereas respect has to be earned. :rolleyes:

[duckonin]

So...one fatality (apparently).
How many crashes were there, compared to 'normal'? And what kind were they?
Easter's carnage was mostly down to head-ons. Dropping 10kph collectively wouldn't stop the deaths. As we've said, that was a statistical anomaly. And so was this weekend. Normal service will not resume shortly, because it was never interrupted.

Just read the news, there was still 332 crashes over the weekend to investigate, compared to 374 last year for the same
period..

[slofox]

I think we are perhaps missing the point a little ourselves.

I don't believe that anybody (police incl) think that a 4-5kph speed reduction is going to save lives. It is more likely that the objective is to simply drive home the message that exceeding the speed limit by any amount is unacceptable and they are simply attempting to make us fear the consequences of speeding (via fines and demerit points) because we haven't responded so well to the advertising campaign aimed at making us fear the death and damages consequences of speeding (in their opinion).

Not that I agree with their approach. Just voicing the possibility that the logic behind their moves is not founded in the belief that 4 or 5kph speed reduction in itself is the answer so much as the need to change our perceived (in their opinion) ignorance of the consequences of speeding.

Perzackerly. The effectiveness of this campaign is solely that of a "special one off" type scenario. Speeds may well have been lower and driving was perhaps safer - certainly it was probably more thoughtful. The one off nature of this campaign brings home the point to drivers that they are at greater risk than usual of getting pinched. So they are, for once in their lives, driving with their brains turned on instead of turned off.

Make the 4km/hr tolerance permanent and within a month it will have become the status quo and everyone will go back to driving with their brains off again with the predictable return of dorky driving practices and all their concomittant effects on crash rates...

[BoristheBiter]

Bullshit just breeds bullshit whereas respect has to be earned. :rolleyes:

Looks like KB is here to stay for a very long time.

[riffer]

from Stuff:

A single "needless" death marred what looks set to become the lowest Queen's Birthday Weekend road toll since records began.
Police said the low toll was partly due to their "zero tolerance" blitz on speed but also because holiday drivers had policed their own driving.
Up to 4pm yesterday, there had been 292 crashes, police roading national manager Superintendent Paula Rose said.
"Last year for the same time period we had 341, so it's a considerable reduction, especially given the nasty weather across the country."
Last Queen's Birthday Weekend, 10 people died and 159 were injured in road accidents, and 12 people died during Easter weekend this year. "Easter was just awful – so many families with whopping great holes left in them," Ms Rose said.
Police did not have figures on how many people had been injured this weekend, but the number was likely to be lower, she said.
She put that down to a tough stance from police on speeding, with marked cars out in force and drivers caught travelling at more than 4kmh over the limit ticketed.
"It's dramatic the difference it's made. We've targeted the slow drivers too – they can be very problematic."
She would not say if police would consider making the temporary 4km tolerance limit permanent.
"Like any holiday weekend, we'll review our tactics afterwards to see whether the things we did worked or didn't work."
Drivers had done their part, she said. "They've policed their own driving – they're the ones that have made the choice to slow down, to travel at the appropriate following distance, to drive to the conditions."
The "catch rate" at drink-drive checkpoints throughout the country was also low, Ms Rose said.
Wet weather had not deterred people from travelling, with plenty of traffic on the road during the weekend. Police hoped more rain expected overnight would not add to the death toll before the official holiday period ended at 6am today.
This year was the first time since 1956, when records began, that only one person died on the roads during Queen's Birthday Weekend.
Early on Sunday, Aroha Ormsby, 28, the mother of three young children, died when the car she was in veered off the road at Tokomaru Bay on the East Coast after a from a party.
The car hit a boulder and Ms Ormsby, who was not wearing a seatbelt, was catapulted from the passenger seat.
The male driver was not seriously injured but Ms Ormsby, the only passenger, died at the scene.
She and the driver had both been drinking and police said they were disheartened that speed and alcohol were both factors in a "needless loss of young life".

[riffer]

Perzackerly. The effectiveness of this campaign is solely that of a "special one off" type scenario. Speeds may well have been lower and driving was perhaps safer - certainly it was probably more thoughtful. The one off nature of this campaign brings home the point to drivers that they are at greater risk than usual of getting pinched. So they are, for once in their lives, driving with their brains turned on instead of turned off.

Make the 4km/hr tolerance permanent and within a month it will have become the status quo and everyone will go back to driving with their brains off again with the predictable return of dorky driving practices and all their concomittant effects on crash rates...

I agree with you 100%

[Hawkeye]

from Stuff:


"It's dramatic the difference it's made.

Wet weather had not deterred people from travelling, with plenty of traffic on the road during the weekend. Police hoped more rain expected overnight would not add to the death toll before the official holiday period ended at 6am today.

Yeah!! Wet weather didn't deter travelling - Tui moment. No 2-3 hour queues trying to get north from Welly on Friday. No 2-3 hour queues trying to get back through Otaki on Monday. No reports on the news of massive traffic jams up north etc etc.


from Stuff:

The car hit a boulder and Ms Ormsby, who was not wearing a seatbelt, was catapulted from the passenger seat.
The male driver was not seriously injured but Ms Ormsby, the only passenger, died at the scene.
She and the driver had both been drinking and police said they were disheartened that speed and alcohol were both factors in a "needless loss of young life".

So both had been drinking, the passenger was not wearing a seat belt, but it must have been speed that killed her. No one deserves to die like that but unfortunately she made her choices. She choose to get in a car where the driver had been drinking. She choose not to put her seat belt on. But speed must have been a contributing factor.
No! the only contributing factor was the dipstick that got behind the wheel of a cage whilst over the limit and killed someone. It could quite easily have been a pedestrian or a biker coming the other way taken out by this guy.

[Max Preload]

No! the only contributing factor was the dipstick that got behind the wheel of a cage whilst over the limit and killed someone. It could quite easily have been a pedestrian or a biker coming the other way taken out by this guy.Now you're just being a silly boy. You know as well as I do that had the drink-driver been driving under the speed limit nothing would have happened regardless of her wearing her seatbelt or not. Or haven't you been watching the TV ads?

[scumdog]

The one off nature of this campaign brings home the point to drivers that they are at greater risk than usual of getting pinched. So they are, for once in their lives, driving with their brains turned on instead of turned off.

Make the 4km/hr tolerance permanent and within a month it will have become the status quo and everyone will go back to driving with their brains off again with the predictable return of dorky driving practices and all their concomittant effects on crash rates...

Very true the first part - nothing like a 'hazard' that was previously unnoticed to get peoples attention and make them focus.

Sadly also very true the second part.

So what needs to happen is to rotate the perceived 'hazards' regularly so people are always focussed.!

[flyingcrocodile46]

Very true the first part - nothing like a 'hazard' that was previously unnoticed to get peoples attention and make them focus.

Sadly also very true the second part.

So what needs to happen is to rotate the perceived 'hazards' regularly so people are always focussed.!

Now you are on to it. Make it so Mr Scumdog.

[cowboyz]

one day after the weekend and the carnage starts......

[HenryDorsetCase]

one day after the weekend and the carnage starts......

I noticed that myself.

Of course Fatty broad will say "One day after we increased our tolerance again, the carnage starts, thus justifying more revenue collection and GPS based speed limiters in vehicles, because I rule you all, I AM THE KING OF THE WORLD MUAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA" The last bit might not get broadcast.

[miloking]

I noticed that myself.

Of course Fatty broad will say "One day after we increased our tolerance again, the carnage starts, thus justifying more revenue collection and GPS based speed limiters in vehicles, because I rule you all, I AM THE KING OF THE WORLD MUAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA" The last bit might not get broadcast.

It almost seems like Police and Media work together...somehow. But now that would be unethical so no that cannot be possible... :D

[caseye]

It almost seems like Police and Media work together...somehow. But now that would be unethical so no that cannot be possible... :D

Not only possible butt quite likely too!
Of course the Media and Police work together, often and most of the time for the right reasons.
Anything that reduces needless deaths on our roads is OK by me.
However, if the Police and the Media truely think that a lower tolerance before actioning for speeding ofences is what did the trick last weekend then it's only themsleves they are fooling.
WEATHER PLAYED THE BIGGEST PART in last weekends road toll being a record low, weather, the huge decrease in the number of people going anywhere at all and yes the extra effort the Police went to in diligently enforcing a reduced tolerance of speed.
Course they lied and placed camera vans at the end of double passing lanes etc because the barstards can't help themselves and no doubt their QUOTA's were doubled for the weekend.
If only we had pro active policing units out there.
You know standing on an intersection giving praise for good driving practicesa and being seen to stop the NUMPTIES doing dumb shit and crushing their cars there and then.
I'd in in for that in any amount.

[Fluffy Cat]

Not only possible butt quite likely too!
Of course the Media and Police work together, often and most of the time for the right reasons.
Anything that reduces needless deaths on our roads is OK by me.
However, if the Police and the Media truely think that a lower tolerance before actioning for speeding ofences is what did the trick last weekend then it's only themsleves they are fooling.
WEATHER PLAYED THE BIGGEST PART in last weekends road toll being a record low, weather, the huge decrease in the number of people going anywhere at all and yes the extra effort the Police went to in diligently enforcing a reduced tolerance of speed.
Course they lied and placed camera vans at the end of double passing lanes etc because the barstards can't help themselves and no doubt their QUOTA's were doubled for the weekend.
If only we had pro active policing units out there.
You know standing on an intersection giving praise for good driving practicesa and being seen to stop the NUMPTIES doing dumb shit and crushing their cars there and then.
I'd in in for that in any amount.

Sorry caseye but, I think you are been a bit myopic on that one. Very 1984, in my dream world the media ie, the news. Would be strictly impartial and objective in their views. Not an advertising medium for a sometimes misguided law enforcement arm of govenment.
There is a complete lack of this displayed by NZ media, they just go along with the plot. Never questioning the methods or results (at least not in any depth). It's death by a thousand cuts. Government and Media by the lowest common denominator.:yes:
And while I am at it......HDC, what a great idea GPS limiters. No more speeding fines ever.........I have a feeling it would not reduce the toll much.

[miloking]

Not only possible butt quite likely too!
Of course the Media and Police work together, often and most of the time for the right reasons.
Anything that reduces needless deaths on our roads is OK by me.
However, if the Police and the Media truely think that a lower tolerance before actioning for speeding ofences is what did the trick last weekend then it's only themsleves they are fooling.
WEATHER PLAYED THE BIGGEST PART in last weekends road toll being a record low, weather, the huge decrease in the number of people going anywhere at all and yes the extra effort the Police went to in diligently enforcing a reduced tolerance of speed.
Course they lied and placed camera vans at the end of double passing lanes etc because the barstards can't help themselves and no doubt their QUOTA's were doubled for the weekend.
If only we had pro active policing units out there.
You know standing on an intersection giving praise for good driving practicesa and being seen to stop the NUMPTIES doing dumb shit and crushing their cars there and then.
I'd in in for that in any amount.

Of course they are, but cant you see how wrong this is!!! No matter how noble the "reasons" are it sets dangerous precedent at best and for most confirms fact that we live in mind controling socialists state...

[red mermaid]

To back up and give your claim, and give it some credibility, of the weather playing the biggest part in the record low road toll, can you please post the research you did on the weather for last years Queens Birthday weekend.



Not only possible butt quite likely too!
Of course the Media and Police work together, often and most of the time for the right reasons.
Anything that reduces needless deaths on our roads is OK by me.
However, if the Police and the Media truely think that a lower tolerance before actioning for speeding ofences is what did the trick last weekend then it's only themsleves they are fooling.
WEATHER PLAYED THE BIGGEST PART in last weekends road toll being a record low, weather, the huge decrease in the number of people going anywhere at all and yes the extra effort the Police went to in diligently enforcing a reduced tolerance of speed.
Course they lied and placed camera vans at the end of double passing lanes etc because the barstards can't help themselves and no doubt their QUOTA's were doubled for the weekend.
If only we had pro active policing units out there.
You know standing on an intersection giving praise for good driving practicesa and being seen to stop the NUMPTIES doing dumb shit and crushing their cars there and then.
I'd in in for that in any amount.

[steve_t]

At least John Key was intelligent enough to suggest that only IF the police can prove that the speed tolerance reduction was the reason for the lower road toll, he'll support more resources for them. Obviously, he was also skeptical and considered other factors as well

[caseye]

No I haven't ,red and i aint gunna neither! So there.
My claim, as such, is simply that despite all that the Police and the media did, drivers concern for themselves and their passengers meant that either they did not go anywhere at all or they went there cautiously and with some care not to be caught doing more than 4 K's over the limit all the while taking into account the absolutely atrocious weather conditions experienced by most of the country.
Oh and of course despite their best attempts at hand on heart "we will not put cameras at the end of passing lanes, " THEY DID, as usual, they can't be trusted.
No research required for this one, I was out and about on Saturday and I saw this with myn own eyes, bastards. I don't mind being Policed, but I mind being fleeced so the damn Govt gets more dollars.
Afraid my experience of Policing in recent times has been marred by the belligerant, iHolier tha thou, I am the man, as opposed to the courteous, respectful officers I've dealt with in the past.
I give no offence nor disrespect to those officers I come into contact with and yet in the last two instances where I've had to address them it's been a fifty fifty call with one woman officer being a right pratt and getting put smartly back in her place by a much older and worldly wise citizen.The other ,again a woman officer, displayed the what I'd consder to be preferred manner and dealt with me and our discussion in a firm and frank way with no BS given or received. This officer was professional , cool calm and collected and proved to have a sense of humour and fair play.

[scumdog]

If only we had pro active policing units out there.
You know standing on an intersection giving praise for good driving practicesa and being seen to stop the NUMPTIES doing dumb shit and crushing their cars there and then.
I'd in in for that in any amount.

Hmm, imagine KB: "Yeah, I took off when the light went green and some arsehole cop pulled me over to tell me how good I was for not shooting through on the orange, who the hell does he think he is pulling me over when I hadn't done nothing wrong..."

[HenryDorsetCase]

Hmm, imagine KB: "Yeah, I took off when the light went green and some arsehole cop pulled me over to tell me how good I was for not shooting through on the orange, who the hell does he think he is pulling me over when I hadn't done nothing wrong..."

One of my favourite TV shows ever is "Cops", and there's ALWAYS that guy (who has usually been caught drunk as fuck driving, or with a pound of crystal meth, or a dead hooker in his car or whatever) saying "Why y'all locking me up for??? I didn't DO nothing!!!!"

awesome. :)

Oh, and things I learned from Cops:

"I didn't do nothin'"

"I ain't never seen that afore: Y'all planted it there"

"I've only had two drinks"

"I thought that was legal in this state" (where I have lived my whole life).

[flyingcrocodile46]

To back up and give your claim, and give it some credibility, of the weather playing the biggest part in the record low road toll, can you please post the research you did on the weather for last years Queens Birthday weekend.

Reminds me of the God debate. Is he real or is it fantasy.

Religious wackos (or power hungry manipulators... depending on your preference) wrote a fictional story about an imaginary god and his imaginary son. They then insisted that it was all for real and that we had to live by the made up Gods rules. Whenever anyone says that there is no proof that the story or gods rules are real and that it was all made up, the wackos respond with the challenge.... 'Prove it'.

Figures that those supporting fictional statistics would use the same lame fall back in their own defense. It simply serves to illustrate how piss weak the statistic ploy is.

Nice to see that Keys isn't so stupid as to give the bullshit claims any credibility.

[Katman]

Why should praise be expected for good driving practices?

Good driving practices should be expected.

[Scuba_Steve]

Reminds me of the God debate. Is he real or is it fantasy.

Religious wackos (or power hungry manipulators... depending on your preference) wrote a fictional story about an imaginary god and his imaginary son. They then insisted that it was all for real and that we had to live by the made up Gods rules. Whenever anyone says that there is no proof that the story or gods rules are real and that it was all made up, the wackos respond with the challenge.... 'Prove it'.

Figures that those supporting fictional statistics would use the same lame fall back in their own defense. It simply serves to illustrate how piss weak the statistic ploy is.

Nice to see that Keys isn't so stupid as to give the bullshit claims any credibility.

Its not just the God religions that use it all religions use that defense, God, Evolution, Global Warming, ACC statistics, etc etc etc

[Hinny]

WEATHER PLAYED THE BIGGEST PART in last weekends road toll being a record low

You are forgetting the Panel-beaters theme song.
<object width="480" height="385">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/wp2iNla2Y6s&hl=en_GB&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></object>

[Hinny]

Seriously, why are vehicles enabled to exceed the speed limit.
GPS controlled speed limiting devices are at the high end of control. Simple speed limiters would be as effective on the open road.
With this form of control we would anticipate a 2% decrease in the number of deaths on the road.
Some may say -"not worth it".
Obviously, this only applies to 'other unknown people' dying, or not.

[caseye]

LOL some bloody funny replies there gents.
Katman, yes it should be expected, the unfortunate thing is that good practice has never actually been taught here, so who the hell knows what is good or bad??
Positive repsonse to things done well, is the quickest way to get things done well repeatedly.

[Babelfish]

Hmm, imagine KB: "Yeah, I took off when the light went green and some arsehole cop pulled me over to tell me how good I was for not shooting through on the orange, who the hell does he think he is pulling me over when I hadn't done nothing wrong..."

I'd love to double my opportunity to whine about the rozzas, good thinking!

I cant believe the rozzas are still going for speed below 120. It wont make any difference up to that point...oh, other than the whole physics thing they force at us every night....stop here?.....or HERE? Spastic. If they spent as much time enforcing other things like keeping left unless passing, and driving common courtesy the road would be loads better. In fact, while I'm at it, they should be shooting fuckers who dont know what fog lights are.

Another example of an incompetent government organisation.

[86GSXR]

I went for a ride today and I may have seen 104 or so. I'm glad I didn't get nicked as I'd hate to think of more of my hard earned cash going towards politicians credit cards.

[BoristheBiter]

In fact, while I'm at it, they should be shooting fuckers who dont know what fog lights are.

.

Fog lights, those lights on my splitter that are on all time.
Those ones???

[Madmax]

104km pull!(for fucks sake i could skate faster), im gone! outta there
No reg, (not paying ACC levie) im gone! outta there
bad rep! dont care

[doc]

Why should praise be expected for good driving practices?

Good driving practices should be expected.


Got to be some mid ground somewhere here. The old saying "Constant criticism destroys enthusiasm" Even going back to a warning for 5km over would be reasonable. 5% speedo error more about revenue because number of infringement at 10% dropping . I would guess.

[miloking]

To back up and give your claim, and give it some credibility, of the weather playing the biggest part in the record low road toll, can you please post the research you did on the weather for last years Queens Birthday weekend.

Can you post the same research to support claims that 4km/h tolerance this weekend contributed to the low road toll?????????? (because thats the same bullshit that NZ police is currently claiming via media)

[miloking]

Reminds me of the God debate. Is he real or is it fantasy.

Religious wackos (or power hungry manipulators... depending on your preference) wrote a fictional story about an imaginary god and his imaginary son. They then insisted that it was all for real and that we had to live by the made up Gods rules. Whenever anyone says that there is no proof that the story or gods rules are real and that it was all made up, the wackos respond with the challenge.... 'Prove it'.

Figures that those supporting fictional statistics would use the same lame fall back in their own defense. It simply serves to illustrate how piss weak the statistic ploy is.

Nice to see that Keys isn't so stupid as to give the bullshit claims any credibility.

Agreed, Christianfags are cancer of this planet anyway...

Kind of same with power/money hungry politicians....

[red mermaid]

No, because Im not sure that it did, however the original post claimed that the major factor was the weather and lack of traffic on the roads due to that.

For this to be correct that person would have to know what the weather was like last QB weekend, otherwise its another KB myth.



Can you post the same research to support claims that 4km/h tolerance this weekend contributed to the low road toll?????????? (because thats the same bullshit that NZ police is currently claiming via media)

[red mermaid]

So in other words, your post and its claim was just something you made up as you hit the keyboard.



No I haven't ,red and i aint gunna neither! So there.
My claim, as such, is simply that despite all that the Police and the media did, drivers concern for themselves and their passengers meant that either they did not go anywhere at all or they went there cautiously and with some care not to be caught doing more than 4 K's over the limit all the while taking into account the absolutely atrocious weather conditions experienced by most of the country.
Oh and of course despite their best attempts at hand on heart "we will not put cameras at the end of passing lanes, " THEY DID, as usual, they can't be trusted.
No research required for this one, I was out and about on Saturday and I saw this with myn own eyes, bastards. I don't mind being Policed, but I mind being fleeced so the damn Govt gets more dollars.
Afraid my experience of Policing in recent times has been marred by the belligerant, iHolier tha thou, I am the man, as opposed to the courteous, respectful officers I've dealt with in the past.
I give no offence nor disrespect to those officers I come into contact with and yet in the last two instances where I've had to address them it's been a fifty fifty call with one woman officer being a right pratt and getting put smartly back in her place by a much older and worldly wise citizen.The other ,again a woman officer, displayed the what I'd consder to be preferred manner and dealt with me and our discussion in a firm and frank way with no BS given or received. This officer was professional , cool calm and collected and proved to have a sense of humour and fair play.

[flyingcrocodile46]

That particular bit of statistical data is recorded and not difficult to access. Met Service charge a small fee to provide the data but it is available............ For all the good it is in isolation.

[red mermaid]

Thats right, it is one small factor in isolation but it was caseye (I think) who said it was the major factor, and now can't, and won't back up his claim.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Thats right, it is one small factor in isolation but it was caseye (I think) who said it was the major factor, and now can't, and won't back up his claim.


I would have thought that the weather history was pretty obvious to anyone that had a reasonable memory and yes while it is only one factor, It is in all likelihood the second biggest (and most easily verifiable) as.... if you apply a bit of common sense (as Caseye has) logic suggests that the number of vehicles on the road (The biggest bit of data.. not so easily verifiable) drops significantly (in holiday weekends) when shit weather is forecast. So his statement has a hell of a lot more credibility than the line of bullshit used to justify the move.

If the people following the line of reasoning have the nouse to do so... this is all pretty obvious stuff. Don't you guys have some sort of IQ threshold that you have to demonstrate?

[Jantar]

That particular bit of statistical data is recorded and not difficult to access. Met Service charge a small fee to provide the data but it is available............ For all the good it is in isolation.
Actually, its available for free at http://cliflo.niwa.co.nz/. There is a lot of data there in the form of rainfall, temperature etc for anywhere in new Zealand. And yes the weather was much worse over the whole country this year compared to last.

[Berries]

Briscoes had a sale on as well. That would have meant less people travelling out of town.

[Hinny]

I can tell you - it was shit.
More shit than this year by quite a margin.
We had a very poor turnout, in terms of numbers, for the KB rally.
Got to ride through snowstorms for our ride-out.
That's snow-storms, not snow-showers by the way.
Big windscreens are so good!

[Hinny]

Briscoes had a sale on as well. That would have meant less people travelling out of town.

I traveled out of town.
Does that mean I am less of a person than those that went to Briscoes sale?

[Berries]

Quite possibly. Don't you need a waffle maker ?

[ukusa]

Quite possibly. Don't you need a waffle maker ?

they make good hand warmers, but you need two, one for each hand.

[Hinny]

Quite possibly. Don't you need a waffle maker ?

Waffles are a specialty of this house.

[Katman]

I can tell you - it was shit.
More shit than this year by quite a margin.
We had a very poor turnout, in terms of numbers, for the KB rally.
Got to ride through snowstorms for our ride-out.
That's snow-storms, not snow-showers by the way.
Big windscreens are so good!

Oh nos. Looks like everyones theories done got busted.:wacko:

[MSTRS]

Oh nos. Looks like everyones theories done got busted.:wacko:

And theories are all that ANYONE has, as to why the toll was so low.

The reality is that simple, dumb luck caused the pendulum to be at that end of it's swing...

[MarkH]

And theories are all that ANYONE has, as to why the toll was so low.

The reality is that simple, dumb luck caused the pendulum to be at that end of it's swing...

Well, you've described my theory pretty well.

The evidence that the vagaries of dumb luck are at play in available too. Take several weekends when nothing has changed from one to another and notice that the toll varies - that is because sometimes someone doesn't get away with something stupid, sometimes there is a car is coming the other way when you cross the centre line and sometimes there isn't. Sometimes you are lucky and live through a car accident and sometimes you are not.

What happens on one particular weekend does NOT make a trend! Only an idiot would think otherwise!

[MSTRS]

What happens on one particular weekend does NOT make a trend! Only an idiot would think otherwise!

Nor does what happens be solely because of what HP do or don't do...

[scumdog]

I can tell you - it was shit.
More shit than this year by quite a margin.
We had a very poor turnout, in terms of numbers, for the KB rally.
Got to ride through snowstorms for our ride-out.
That's snow-storms, not snow-showers by the way.
Big windscreens are so good!

So why weren't there MORE crashes due to flood, heavy rain, ice, snow?? (And generally snow etc draws out the idiots why want to 'see what it's like')

I thought those adverse conditions would have balanced the claim there were less people on the roads

[MarkH]

So why weren't there MORE crashes due to flood, heavy rain, ice, snow??

Random luck?

[Spearfish]

Waffles are a specialty of this house.

What is a waffle? a relation to a pancake?

[ukusa]

Random luck?

sure is.
There are idiots on the road also, maybe there were just less driving that weekend? The idiots on the road make bad decisions.
I believe a good proportion of death on our roads is just a way of weeding out the idiots who probably should never be on the roads anyway, but some dumb-ass somewhere in NZ gave that person a license after they managed to drive around the block a couple of times without crashing. Unfortunately for every one of these idiots killed on our roads, there are new idiots given licences every day to replace them.
Also unfortunate is the fact that sometimes these idiots kill people other than themselves, this is the main problem. It is also the hardest part to fix, because no speed limit will stop the idiot from overtaking on a blind bend/hill into the path of another car.

[scumdog]

sure is.
There are idiots on the road also, maybe there were just less driving that weekend? The idiots on the road make bad decisions.
I believe a good proportion of death on our roads is just a way of weeding out the idiots who probably should never be on the roads anyway,

I bet the rellies of those innocents killed by fuckwittery on the part of the driver of the other vehicle will be impressed!

[miloking]

I bet the rellies of those innocents killed by fuckwittery on the part of the driver of the other vehicle will be impressed!

I like how you have to twist everything to the extreme, obviously ukusa meant those idiots wrapping their cars around trees and such due to lack of skill/common sense... why would he call innocent victims of accidents idiots?

[Genestho]

I like how you have to twist everything to the extreme, obviously ukusa meant those idiots wrapping their cars around trees and such due to lack of skill/common sense... why would he call innocent victims of accidents idiots?

Obviously SD meant it is not just about "idiots" weeding themselves out.
As simple as the context Ukusa put it in, the "idiots" often take the contributors to society down with them, so therefore it is worth doing things to prevent roadcrashes and the resulting social cost to communities and families.

[miloking]

Obviously SD meant it is not just about "idiots" weeding themselves out.
As simple as the context Ukusa put it in, the "idiots" often take the contributors to society down with them, so therefore it is worth doing things to prevent roadcrashes and the resulting social cost to communities and families.

Of course it is worth saving innocent people from fuckwits killing them...but 4km/h tolerance being the way to do it is just retarded and i find it scary that its the best our police could come up with!

What if we will need them to solve some real problems in a future? (like ever increasing crime rate)

[scumdog]

Of course it is worth saving innocent people from fuckwits killing them...but 4km/h tolerance being the way to do it is just retarded and i find it scary that its the best our police could come up with!

What if we will need them to solve some real problems in a future? (like ever increasing crime rate)

Get verybody to drive more safely (hell, in some cases that could even mean going slower..;.)

Then there wil be spare cops to attend the increasing crime rate....

[Patrick]

Plus one, Scummy....

When this first came out, it sounded like a directive that all vehicles exceeding 4km would be stopped and will be ticketed.

Then, on the Friday of the holiday weekend, the call was made by the big cheeses that we had discretion... along with something like "we don't want to see patrols lurking around the end of passing lanes..." So there goes another KB myth.....

Locally - a grand total of 2 tickets issued, both for 109 - both were going faster, but when locked, both were for 109 and that is what they were written up for.

I do not know of ANY tickets lower than those two for 109.... locally.....

Here are some "stats".............. local ones at least....

105kmph up to 108kmph = 0 tickets

109 = 2

110 = 0

111 or more.... business as usual - but it was quieter than normal.

Plenty of traffic around these parts, but finally drivers were behaving themselves. The weather is usually good for more crashes, as the speed and following distances are the same, sometimes worse than when in the dry..... but no, everyone was slower.

Did the 4k tolerance work?

Plenty of traffic and holiday makers.... crap weather.... the usual mix for "problems...."

The only added was this 4k thing.....

[caseye]

Plus one, Scummy....

When this first came out, it sounded like a directive that all vehicles exceeding 4km would be stopped and will be ticketed.

Then, on the Friday of the holiday weekend, the call was made by the big cheeses that we had discretion... along with something like "we don't want to see patrols lurking around the end of passing lanes..." So there goes another KB myth.....

Locally - a grand total of 2 tickets issued, both for 109 - both were going faster, but when locked, both were for 109 and that is what they were written up for.

I do not know of ANY tickets lower than those two for 109.... locally.....

Here are some "stats".............. local ones at least....

105kmph up to 108kmph = 0 tickets

109 = 2

110 = 0

111 or more.... business as usual - but it was quieter than normal.

Plenty of traffic around these parts, but finally drivers were behaving themselves. The weather is usually good for more crashes, as the speed and following distances are the same, sometimes worse than when in the dry..... but no, everyone was slower.

Did the 4k tolerance work?

Plenty of traffic and holiday makers.... crap weather.... the usual mix for "problems...."

The only added was this 4k thing.....

On the face of it, we;d have to accept that the only variable was the 4 K over tolerance and accept that "IT" was effective.
Did see a camera van at the end of a passing lane though ! so There, lol.

[MarkH]

On the face of it, we;d have to accept that the only variable was the 4 K over tolerance and accept that "IT" was effective.

I don't think we have to accept that at all! In fact every vehicle and every driver on the road is a variable - so there are more variables than we could possibly keep track of. If a moron is playing with his/her stereo and crosses the centre line just at the time when there is no traffic coming the other way then we can have a mistake without fatal consequences, another time there could be a multiple fatality. The only difference is often just random luck. So this Queen's birthday weekend ended with a low road toll, if we have the same 4kph tolerance at labour weekend will the road toll be similarly low? I would say maybe, maybe not - with luck no one will die, but if the luck goes the wrong way . . .

If you flip a coin once and it comes up tails does that indicate that the coin has a pattern of coming up tails and that is the result you will mostly get?

[smoky]

we had discretion... along with something like "we don't want to see patrols lurking around the end of passing lanes..." So there goes another KB myth.......

Bull shit, seen it, if you want to catch fish you go where the fish are, I can assure you there are plenty of small minded wanker type cops who practise "lurking around end of passing lanes..." and other such pathetic crap

It's no myth at all

[scumdog]

Bull shit, seen it, if you want to catch fish you go where the fish are, I can assure you there are plenty of small minded wanker type cops who practise "lurking around end of passing lanes..." and other such pathetic crap

It's no myth at all

Never seen one at the end of passing lanes around here - and yes, we DO have them!

Mobile seems to be the go - we get a speed-camera down our way about once a month or so.

Ah the perk of living in the unpopulated frozen south!!:2thumbsup

[Coldrider]

Yeah Invers, two laned road into town and heaps of traffic lights, and no traffic LOL

[red mermaid]

Round here it was suggested that a good place to patrol was at the end of passing lanes, and I did so on QB weekend.

I've got no radar so wasn't looking at speed but rather for these drivers that think they can use the last piece where passing is no longer safe to pass and thereby crash.

Stats on patrol research I have seen show that this is a common occurrence.

[Coldrider]

Yes I agree, usually begins with a slow car speeding up in the left lane because they are more confident to reach 95kph on the straight.

[Ocean1]

I've got no radar so wasn't looking at speed but rather for these drivers that think they can use the last piece where passing is no longer safe to pass and thereby crash.

Stats on patrol research I have seen show that this is a common occurrence.

You mean the place where vehicles in the LH lane are supposed to give way?

[miloking]

Round here it was suggested that a good place to patrol was at the end of passing lanes, and I did so on QB weekend.

I've got no radar so wasn't looking at speed but rather for these drivers that think they can use the last piece where passing is no longer safe to pass and thereby crash.

Stats on patrol research I have seen show that this is a common occurrence.

Well thats because we know you are nice cop...so of course you wouldnt be giving out speeding tickets at the end of the passing lane :)

[Ragingrob]

Plus one, Scummy....

When this first came out, it sounded like a directive that all vehicles exceeding 4km would be stopped and will be ticketed.

Then, on the Friday of the holiday weekend, the call was made by the big cheeses that we had discretion... along with something like "we don't want to see patrols lurking around the end of passing lanes..." So there goes another KB myth.....

Locally - a grand total of 2 tickets issued, both for 109 - both were going faster, but when locked, both were for 109 and that is what they were written up for.

I do not know of ANY tickets lower than those two for 109.... locally.....

Here are some "stats".............. local ones at least....

105kmph up to 108kmph = 0 tickets

109 = 2

110 = 0

111 or more.... business as usual - but it was quieter than normal.

Plenty of traffic around these parts, but finally drivers were behaving themselves. The weather is usually good for more crashes, as the speed and following distances are the same, sometimes worse than when in the dry..... but no, everyone was slower.

Did the 4k tolerance work?

Plenty of traffic and holiday makers.... crap weather.... the usual mix for "problems...."

The only added was this 4k thing.....

I think you forgot that wet weather = no sun = no bbq = no beer. Not to mention the million other variables. A KB myth? I've seen PLENTY of patrol cars sitting at the beginning, middle and end of passing lanes... I'm pretty sure they weren't riding unicorns.

Btw I'll mention once again (millions of pages back)... What about the double standards eh? All's fair and good to ticket ppl who are breaking the speed limit in any way or form, but kinda sucks I can't ticket the cop I see speeding/disrupting traffic/failing to indicate/failing to give way.

[Hinny]

So why weren't there MORE crashes due to flood, heavy rain, ice, snow?? (And generally snow etc draws out the idiots who want to 'see what it's like')

I thought those adverse conditions would have balanced the claim there were fewer people on the roads

There, I fixed it for you.

Your point reiterates my point.
When it rains it generally rains 'Pennies from Heaven' for Panel-beaters and Taxi drivers - As I'm sure you are acutely aware.
We can, I guess, just lament that there was a lower contribution to the desirable outcome of a lower population.
Now if we can just figure out how to swap losing the good guys for those we don't like.
Mind you: Education and they will all be good guys.... Wishful thinking.

[smoky]

Round here it was suggested that a good place to patrol was at the end of passing lanes, and I did so on QB weekend.

I've got no radar so wasn't looking at speed but rather for these drivers that think they can use the last piece where passing is no longer safe to pass and thereby crash.

Stats on patrol research I have seen show that this is a common occurrence.

Just shows how retarded your thinking is

How about some attention to sorting the problem before it becomes a race at the end of a passing lane, like pulling over road hogs and giving them a little bit of advice about sharing the road with others who wish to maintain a legal 100 Klm/hr.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Just shows how retarded your thinking is

How about some attention to sorting the problem before it becomes a race at the end of a passing lane, like pulling over road hogs and giving them a little bit of advice about sharing the road with others who wish to maintain a legal 100 Klm/hr.

A great idea but not really practical. Consider the logistics of gathering the appropriate evidence for such prosecutions.... incredibly time consuming following people around like that and of course they won't behave the same with a patrol car up their date so unlikely to bear much fruit.

[scumdog]

Just shows how retarded your thinking is

How about some attention to sorting the problem before it becomes a race at the end of a passing lane, like pulling over road hogs and giving them a little bit of advice about sharing the road with others who wish to maintain a legal 100 Klm/hr.

Hah!

Join up (even as a 'non-sworn'), get an admin job and tell them to do as you wish, show them the most effective way to do the job, I'm sure you vast knowledge and experience in the matter will glow like a beacon and no retarded thinking will happen........pfft, like that's going to happen...

'Course sitting behind the keyboard always seems to impart knowledge to those who have none at times..

[MarkH]

pulling over road hogs and giving them a little bit of advice about sharing the road with others who wish to maintain a legal 100 Klm/hr.
A great idea but not really practical. Consider the logistics of gathering the appropriate evidence for such prosecutions.... incredibly time consuming following people around like that and of course they won't behave the same with a patrol car up their date so unlikely to bear much fruit.

Reading comprehension = fail!

Where did smoky say anything about prosecutions? How about a mufti car travelling along the road and observes a car travelling at 80kph with another car stuck behind it, when getting to the passing lane the slower car speeds up to 105kph and the car that was stuck behind speeds up to 125kph during the passing manoeuvre - mufti cop could then pull over the slow car and explain why what he was doing was wrong. People that speed up while being passed should really receive the fine and demerits that are currently going to the car doing the passing, but pulling them over and explaining why their discourteous and dangerous driving should change may work in some cases at least.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Reading comprehension = fail!

Where did smoky say anything about prosecutions? How about a mufti car travelling along the road and observes a car travelling at 80kph with another car stuck behind it, when getting to the passing lane the slower car speeds up to 105kph and the car that was stuck behind speeds up to 125kph during the passing manoeuvre - mufti cop could then pull over the slow car and explain why what he was doing was wrong. People that speed up while being passed should really receive the fine and demerits that are currently going to the car doing the passing, but pulling them over and explaining why their discourteous and dangerous driving should change may work in some cases at least.

Very fitting that the site is known as KB.. as it fits so well with the P in PKB.

Where in my post did I say it was a bad idea. (in fact I said it was a good idea) :rolleyes:

Yes he was talking about warnings and driver education but ultimately, what's the impact of warnings if they don't have the threat of prosecution eh?

My comments re practicality are based in the logic of efficiency time in motion etc (bang for $) Most of the police vehicles assigned to traffic are not mufti. Most mufti cars are used by proper policemen (who don't do traffic or education) who are involved in proper police duties. So it isn't really a practical use of the resources available. I for one do not want to see an increase in muftis for traffic policing. The negatives associated with the abundance of weasels in marked cars is enough without camouflaging them.

<edited for="" purpose="" of="" civility=""></edited>

[donmc]

If you go fast enough then their radar guns can't get an accurate reading on your speed.
in my experience, during rapid acceleration or deceleration the radar is unable to get a lock until your speed becomes constant.

[scumdog]

in my experience, during rapid acceleration or deceleration the radar is unable to get a lock until your speed becomes constant.

In my experience the time from radar turned on to locking on the speed is about the same time it take to do a channel-change twice with the TV remote.

So you would have to do a might fast accelerate/decelerate act to beat that.....

[SMOKEU]

In my experience the time from radar turned on to locking on the speed is about the same time it take to do a channel-change twice with the TV remote.

So you would have to do a might fast accelerate/decelerate act to beat that.....

Radar detector to the rescue!

[scumdog]

Radar detector to the rescue!

Yep - if you're attention is up to scratch it might save you from a ticket if you're doing say 115kph or so, if your doing 145kph it may save your licence.

And you have to be on the ball EVERY time.

But frankly I couldn't be naffed having one - the cost, the false alarms etc with the speeds I do make it a no-go - plus I'm sure I'd forget to transfer it from one vehicle/bike to another at some stage.

[SMOKEU]

Yep - if you're attention is up to scratch it might save you from a ticket if you're doing say 115kph or so, if your doing 145kph it may save your licence.

And you have to be on the ball EVERY time.

But frankly I couldn't be naffed having one - the cost, the false alarms etc with the speeds I do make it a no-go - plus I'm sure I'd forget to transfer it from one vehicle/bike to another at some stage.

I don't really worry about the false alarms, turning everything except Ka band off. Although some of the new camera vans are on K band I understand, but that's OK because I generally keep my speeds down around town.

[Hinny]

Yes he was talking about warnings and driver education but ultimately, what's the impact of warnings if they don't have the threat of prosecution eh?


The impact would be the same as teaching children how to behave.
One does not need the threat of a hiding to make the child understand and change the bad behaviour.
Get with the times.

[MarkH]

My comments re practicality are based in the logic of efficiency time in motion etc (bang for $) Most of the police vehicles assigned to traffic are not mufti. Most mufti cars are used by proper policemen (who don't do traffic or education) who are involved in proper police duties. So it isn't really a practical use of the resources available. I for one do not want to see an increase in muftis for traffic policing. The negatives associated with the abundance of weasels in marked cars is enough without camouflaging them.

To be honest I think the plonkers that speed up while being passed would not even notice a marked police car behind them. As far as bang for $ goes - I agree that is the mentality, the police don't want to get drivers to improve their driving behaviour, they just want to hand out tickets. It's a bit sad really.

When I used to drive a car it was often difficult to safely pass slow idiots when there weren't any passing lanes. I remember coming to a passing lane and changing down a gear and planting my boot - I got passed one car and had accelerated from 80 to 145kph, then the passing lane ended and I had to continue sitting behind the other slow arseholes. But as you say, the police have no interest in educating drivers about why they shouldn't speed up when other vehicles are pulling out into the passing lane to get passed them. They don't even mention dick moves like that in their ads.

[flyingcrocodile46]

The impact would be the same as teaching children how to behave.
One does not need the threat of a hiding to make the child understand and change the bad behaviour.
Get with the times.Well Hiney as the police aren't actually educating children (or drivers), but are in fact smacking them around the ears and taking their lunch money. I would respectfully suggest that it might in fact be yourself that is out of touch 'with the times'.

Unless you are going to significantly increase the number of police on traffic work (say 2 to 3 times) it is not a practical use of limited resources. It is more effective to increase the effectiveness of the presence of a finite resource by having it wave a big stick menacingly than to make infinite resources available to track everybody's every move and provide kind words of guidance whenever they stray from the path.

[Coldrider]

Well Hiney as the police aren't actually educating children (or drivers), but are in fact smacking them around the ears and taking their lunch money. I would respectfully suggest that it might in fact be yourself that is out of touch 'with the times'.

Unless you are going to significantly increase the number of police on traffic work (say 2 to 3 times) it is not a practical use of limited resources. It is more effective to increase the effectiveness of the presence of a finite resource by having it wave a big stick menacingly than to make infinite resources available to track everybody's every move and provide kind words of guidance whenever they stray from the path.Sounds like the nuns that were my teachers when I was at convent school, they could break a ruler across the palm of your hand LOL.

[Hinny]

Well Hiney as the police aren't actually educating children (or drivers), but are in fact smacking them around the ears and taking their lunch money. I would respectfully suggest that it might in fact be yourself that is out of touch 'with the times'.

Unless you are going to significantly increase the number of police on traffic work (say 2 to 3 times) it is not a practical use of limited resources. It is more effective to increase the effectiveness of the presence of a finite resource by having it wave a big stick menacingly than to make infinite resources available to track everybody's every move and provide kind words of guidance whenever they stray from the path.

Boring old school conservatism. This negativity precludes the adoption of alternative methods without empirical evidence to justify the decisions made.
This results in simply doing the same old same old and expecting a different result.
It is the only course of action you are going to get if you have people in charge that are unable or unwilling to think properly. The ones that rise to the top by following the dictates of their antecedents - follow the rules and keep your nose clean type people. Not the sort of innovative, open minded thinkers that are able to embrace the idea that there may be better ways of doing things.

The child rearing scenario is totally relevant. The outcry of people over adoption of Sue Bradford's repeal bill and their proclamations of social collapse is of exactly the same ilk.

I would also suggest your proclamation that to 'increase the effectiveness of the presence of a finite resource by having it wave a big stick menacingly' is equally flawed thinking.
You just have to look at the anti-drug culture that has resulted in the worldwide proliferation of drug use.
The chastity-ring wearing culture that results in mass 'out of wedlock' childbirth.
The list of similar scenarios is long and obvious .

The continued adoption of these type of counter-productive policies, whilst expecting a different outcome, is quite simply dopey.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Boring old school conservatism. This negativity precludes the adoption of alternative methods without empirical evidence to justify the decisions made.
This results in simply doing the same old same old and expecting a different result.
It is the only course of action you are going to get if you have people in charge that are unable or unwilling to think properly. The ones that rise to the top by following the dictates of their antecedents - follow the rules and keep your nose clean type people. Not the sort of innovative, open minded thinkers that are able to embrace the idea that there may be better ways of doing things.

The child rearing scenario is totally relevant. The outcry of people over adoption of Sue Bradford's repeal bill and their proclamations of social collapse is of exactly the same ilk.

I would also suggest your proclamation that to 'increase the effectiveness of the presence of a finite resource by having it wave a big stick menacingly' is equally flawed thinking.
You just have to look at the anti-drug culture that has resulted in the worldwide proliferation of drug use.
The chastity-ring wearing culture that results in mass 'out of wedlock' childbirth.
The list of similar scenarios is long and obvious .

The continued adoption of these type of counter-productive policies, whilst expecting a different outcome, is quite simply dopey.

We pay too much in taxes now. The country can't afford your high ideals (which appear to require a limitless budget in the absence of any PRACTICAL alternatives offered up... as an alternative to all of society's aforementioned inadequacies that you have highlighted). I don't want to subsidise everybody else's idea's of pathways to utopia. It ain't my destination.

By all means raise peoples awareness of poor driving skills. Just do it cost effectively. I like the cops idea of videoing people crossing center lines in high risk areas (low man hours per bad deed observed). Use speed cameras and traffic light cameras in high risk areas. Use flashing speed signs at high risk areas to remind speeders of the limit etc, etc. Those sorts of policing use way less resources, are effective and leave policemen free to do proper policing. The demerit point system works pretty well, apply it to speed camera fines as well. Driver education could be handled by mandatory attendance to annual seminars at licensing centers or advanced driver training courses.. or some such, if required. And make the punters pay for it.

[PrincessBandit]

I can't see why there couldn't be a limited range of speed restrictions for the open road. There are already a variety of them for residential streets (50, 40 around schools etc.) It couldn't be too hard to set limits ranging between 90 (such as that stretch just outside of Tauranga) and, say, 120 on expressways. But by bringing these speeds up have no exceptions made for breeching them. There are definitely some roads, such as SH2, which could be made 90kph zones. (Except people continually flout the speed zone through Maramarua anyway). Other stretches of road could easily be 120 and still be quite "safe". Higher speed areas with NO tolerance over the limit could work???? Hang on, I forgot that speed kills.....(p/t)

[Ocean1]

I can't see why there couldn't be a limited range of speed restrictions for the open road.

They do that in Perth, amongst other colonies. The posted speed changes are prolific, (I once counted 8 ranging from 30K to 90K in increments of 5k in less than 5 kilometres) and nonsensical and on "certain special days" there's politz lurking at every third change. To be fair to the Perthians, (although I don't see the point, apart from needing the practice) there's not the slightest hint of any expectation that the fuzz, (in particular those ones on traffic duty) are anything OTHER than a random menace to be avoided if possible and who exist for the sole purpose of enforcing the local protection racket.

Antirant: FFS why can't you lot see the obvious? The person who needs to make the decision about how fast he's going is the one who's foot/hand/tentacle is on the throttle.

Anything else at all is pure bullshit.

[scumdog]

Boring old school conservatism. This negativity precludes the adoption of alternative methods without empirical evidence to justify the decisions made.
This results in simply doing the same old same old and expecting a different result.
It is the only course of action you are going to get if you have people in charge that are unable or unwilling to think properly. The ones that rise to the top by following the dictates of their antecedents - follow the rules and keep your nose clean type people. Not the sort of innovative, open minded thinkers that are able to embrace the idea that there may be better ways of doing things.

The child rearing scenario is totally relevant. The outcry of people over adoption of Sue Bradford's repeal bill and their proclamations of social collapse is of exactly the same ilk.

I would also suggest your proclamation that to 'increase the effectiveness of the presence of a finite resource by having it wave a big stick menacingly' is equally flawed thinking.
You just have to look at the anti-drug culture that has resulted in the worldwide proliferation of drug use.
The chastity-ring wearing culture that results in mass 'out of wedlock' childbirth.
The list of similar scenarios is long and obvious .

The continued adoption of these type of counter-productive policies, whilst expecting a different outcome, is quite simply dopey.

How come those that know exactly what to do and how to run the country aren't??:blink:

[Ragingrob]

If exceeding 100kph requires death-defying skill, then why does the govt not limit vehicles to 100kph. If it is illegal to exceed 100kph in NZ then why do they give us the opportunity?

[Brian d marge]

How come those that know exactly what to do and how to run the country aren't??:blink:

because my name isn't walmart

Bp

or indeed do I have any hope of getting into the Hallowed halls of the IMF

and I Didn't borrow the money in the first place ( well only a little but I will pay it back ,I promise )

Stephen

[Hinny]

If exceeding 100kph requires death-defying skill, then why does the govt not limit vehicles to 100kph. If it is illegal to exceed 100kph in NZ then why do they give us the opportunity?

Seems like a sensible solution.

[Smifffy]

How come those that know exactly what to do and how to run the country aren't??:blink:

Would you vote for me?

[Hinny]

How come those that know exactly what to do and how to run the country aren't??:blink:

Well that's pretty obvious isn't it.
You and I didn't throw our hats into the ring.

[Fluffy Cat]

Well that's pretty obvious isn't it.
You and I didn't throw our hats into the ring.

Eh.....oh! you think the elected govt runs the country.
Better to get a job in a bank or as a barrister.......:yes:

[Patrick]

On the face of it, we;d have to accept that the only variable was the 4 K over tolerance and accept that "IT" was effective.
Did see a camera van at the end of a passing lane though ! so There, lol.

Should have told the Commissioner. He said "don't go there...."


Bull shit, seen it, if you want to catch fish you go where the fish are, I can assure you there are plenty of small minded wanker type cops who practise "lurking around end of passing lanes..." and other such pathetic crap

It's no myth at all

Must be where you live. If I want to catch fish, of course I go where the fish are. The last one was a 10.1kg snapper surfcasting off our local beach.


I think you forgot that wet weather = no sun = no bbq = no beer. Not to mention the million other variables. A KB myth? I've seen PLENTY of patrol cars sitting at the beginning, middle and end of passing lanes... I'm pretty sure they weren't riding unicorns.

Btw I'll mention once again (millions of pages back)... What about the double standards eh? All's fair and good to ticket ppl who are breaking the speed limit in any way or form, but kinda sucks I can't ticket the cop I see speeding/disrupting traffic/failing to indicate/failing to give way.

Report it to the station. You yourself might not get to write the ticket, but it is how the Senior Sergeants get their quota.


Just shows how retarded your thinking is

How about some attention to sorting the problem before it becomes a race at the end of a passing lane, like pulling over road hogs and giving them a little bit of advice about sharing the road with others who wish to maintain a legal 100 Klm/hr.

Daned if you do something to fix a dangerous problem, and damned if you don't. Go figure.

Don't forget now.... 100 is the maximum. It isn't a target....... although the signs do look like one.... and some even have bullet holes in them around here.... hang on.... as you were.... it is a target......


To be honest I think the plonkers that speed up while being passed would not even notice a marked police car behind them. As far as bang for $ goes - I agree that is the mentality, the police don't want to get drivers to improve their driving behaviour, they just want to hand out tickets. It's a bit sad really.

When I used to drive a car it was often difficult to safely pass slow idiots when there weren't any passing lanes. I remember coming to a passing lane and changing down a gear and planting my boot - I got passed one car and had accelerated from 80 to 145kph, then the passing lane ended and I had to continue sitting behind the other slow arseholes. But as you say, the police have no interest in educating drivers about why they shouldn't speed up when other vehicles are pulling out into the passing lane to get passed them. They don't even mention dick moves like that in their ads.

And what did you learn then?

All that effort for one place. WOW!!!!!!


If exceeding 100kph requires death-defying skill, then why does the govt not limit vehicles to 100kph. If it is illegal to exceed 100kph in NZ then why do they give us the opportunity?

Coz there would be an outcry on KB..................?

[Katman]

Why are you dragging all these fucked threads back to the top?

Let them fucking die.

[Patrick]

Coz I was away for a little...

If it wasn't me, it would be someone else.....

But fair call though.....

LOL.....

[Brian d marge]

have to say
been here ten years ( Japan ) seen the po po twice ( maybe three times )

got pinged for 90 in a 60 , cost 100 000 yen and a months ban all up

but can go about my daily business with out fear or favour from po

heh even ask for help sometimes , as they are,,,err helpful

I mean I don't mind being pinged for 104 , what I don't like is being lied to

104 , 120, 95 what ever its going to hurt

and even the most retarded on this list knows 104 over to Motueka is going to end in tears... but the inganangahui ( SP) to the west coast

104 is fked

Any right minded individual who toes the line "Speed kills" etc or other lines given to you by the "man" , lines owes it to themselves to at least do a bit of research

THEN If The Man speaks the truth , so be it

but to blindly regurgitate is a waste of a life

Stephen

[Dodgyiti]

Just getting back to the 4km/k over bit...

Does anyone think there is an argument for speedo inaccuracy of older bikes (and cars) in order to put a plea of not guilty?
If so, what would be an approach to this type of defence?

Why I say that is not all bikes (or cars) can actually accurately register to within 5km/h by the time they eventually get to 100km/h.
My old 60's Holden ute speedo flutters at 60mph by about 5mph so I have no hope of getting close to 4km/h of 100km/h
I have road tests of my Mk1 where journalists write "...the wildly inaccurate speedo..." and my Ambassador that I ride every day is 5-7 miles out by 60mph with a nicely fluttering speedo needle. So my chances of being that close to the speed limit are slim to F/A.

Any gems of explanatory wisdom to get me off would be greatly appreciated thanks...

[Berries]

I don't see how you can mount a defence on the basis of using inaccurate measuring equipment, unless you are talking about the variance in Police equipment. You need to calibrate it so that you know how fast you are going, rather than waiting for the cops to tell you.

You could think you are doing a cruisy 98km/h but you may be doing a quite antisocial 105km/h. Obviously you will die instantly at that speed, so I'd get it sorted before you incinerate yourself.

[Dodgyiti]

They are 'factory' inaccurate. In days of yore we used mph. A flutter of the needle in mph is a lot of km/h. I had my speedo fully restored when rebuilding my Mk1, does not mean it is accurate because it never was from new.

[Brian d marge]

You haven't seen an Enfield Speedo it has a mind of its own

usually reads lower but even then i wouldn't trust it

Stephen

[Ixion]

Just getting back to the 4km/k over bit...

Does anyone think there is an argument for speedo inaccuracy of older bikes (and cars) in order to put a plea of not guilty?
If so, what would be an approach to this type of defence?

Why I say that is not all bikes (or cars) can actually accurately register to within 5km/h by the time they eventually get to 100km/h.
My old 60's Holden ute speedo flutters at 60mph by about 5mph so I have no hope of getting close to 4km/h of 100km/h
I have road tests of my Mk1 where journalists write "...the wildly inaccurate speedo..." and my Ambassador that I ride every day is 5-7 miles out by 60mph with a nicely fluttering speedo needle. So my chances of being that close to the speed limit are slim to F/A.

Any gems of explanatory wisdom to get me off would be greatly appreciated thanks...

No, sorry, not a starter.

Pre 1950 bikes don't have to have a speedo at all. Years ago, when they were more common, a few people mounted defences based on "I have no speedo, and dont have to have one, so I could not know I was speeding". All failed

Speeding is what is termed (I think) an 'absolute offence'. Simply, if a cop can show you were going faster than the speed limit you are guilty. The facts that you didn't intend to, didn't realise you were, had no way to know etc are irrelevant. All that matters is were you, or not.

This is different to say, burglary or murder or assault, where intent matters - the police have to show that you m,eant to do it/know you were doing it etc. Speeding, they don't. The only time it might be useful would be as a mitigation plea in a 'speed dangerous' charge. It won't get you off, but if the judge really believed that you din't know you were speeding he *might* cut you some slack on the penalty

[Jack Miller]

Nice rant. I'm one of the above mentioned trained monkeys.
To answer your questions;
Police don't build roads or intersections. Refer to your local council or LTNZ office.
We don't fix potholes. Refer to your local council or LTNZ office.
We don't provide public transport. See your local authority about this.
We don't build cheesecutters. Refer to your local council or LTNZ office.
We don't issue drivers licences. Refer to your local licensing agent.
We don't build passing lanes. Refer to your local council or LTNZ office.
We don't priovide duel lanes, altough I guess you mean dual lanes, not lanes for people to duel in. Certainly duelling lanes would mean pistols at dawn through open drivers windows. Imagine that.
We do, however, hammer shitty cars with the laws that exist. We process as many drunks as we humanly can. Few things give us more satisfaction.
We turn up at work every day to be pilloried, scorned and abused by such as yourself, and continue to go out and do the job we are told and paid to do.
I hope this clears up your misconceptions. But I doubt it.
Ho hum.

You don't build passing lanes but you make the ones we have got useless by
1. ticketing overtakers who slip a few k's over the speed limit and
2. refusing to ticket slow vehicles that speed up when someone tries to pass
It is now common to see a queue of vehicles traversing a passing lane at 80-90kph because the truck in front is a road hog and everyone behind is too scared to pass in case it speeds up forcing them over 100k to stay safe when you'll hit them with a ticket. Once the nice straight passing lane is gone and everyone is back into the windies the truck drops back to 70 and everyone curses you - quite rightly.

[Kickaha]

2. refusing to ticket slow vehicles that speed up when someone tries to pass
Can you show me your proof of this? I've been in court and seen a person prosecuted for it

It is now common to see a queue of vehicles traversing a passing lane at 80-90kph because the truck in front is a road hog and everyone behind is too scared to pass in case it speeds up forcing them over 100k to stay safe when you'll hit them with a ticket. Once the nice straight passing lane is gone and everyone is back into the windies the truck drops back to 70 and everyone curses you - quite rightly.
You must travel a lot different roads than I do because I've rarely struck that problem?

[BoristheBiter]

You don't build passing lanes but you make the ones we have got useless by
1. ticketing overtakers who slip a few k's over the speed limit and
2. refusing to ticket slow vehicles that speed up when someone tries to pass


i have seen a few cars pulled over for this.

It is now common to see a queue of vehicles traversing a passing lane at 80-90kph because the truck in front is a road hog and everyone behind is too scared to pass in case it speeds up forcing them over 100k to stay safe when you'll hit them with a ticket. Once the nice straight passing lane is gone and everyone is back into the windies the truck drops back to 70 and everyone curses you - quite rightly.

If i see a truck around here doing 90 i know there is a car in front holding it up, unless it is a horse float in which case it will only be doing 70.


nice dredge by the way.

[Hoon]

You don't build passing lanes but you make the ones we have got useless by
1. ticketing overtakers who slip a few k's over the speed limit and
2. refusing to ticket slow vehicles that speed up when someone tries to pass.
Dude in case you didn't realise, the '4kph+ ticket' war is over - won convincingly by the Police with their killer knockout blow last long weekend.
All the cop bashers have quietly slinked back into the shadows and were hoping that this thread would never see light of day again.

[oneofsix]

Dude in case you didn't realise, the '4kph+ ticket' war is over - won convincingly by the Police with their killer knockout blow last long weekend.
All the cop bashers have quietly slinked back into the shadows and were hoping that this thread would never see light of day again.

You are a deluded dreamer Hoon. QB 0 road deaths had causes other than the 4k :BS: as has been fully discuss here and else where. Nice Troll but next long weekend will revive all the discussion better.

[MSTRS]

Dude in case you didn't realise, the '4kph+ ticket' war is over - won convincingly by the Police with their killer knockout blow last long weekend.


Of course that is what their Minister of Propaganda is going to say. Those of the public that believe it are in for a rude shock when reality 'returns'...

[BoristheBiter]

Of course that is what their Minister of Propaganda is going to say. Those of the public that believe it are in for a rude shock when reality 'returns'...

like when gas prices go down.
Can't see that happening anytime soon.

[MSTRS]

like when gas prices go down.
Can't see that happening anytime soon.

True, that.
However, all that means is that people will continue to travel less than in the past, that being a factor in the lower toll.
Even the braindead public will eventually realise they've been had with the claims that a 4kph tolerance is responsible...or am I giving them too much credit?

[BoristheBiter]

True, that.
However, all that means is that people will continue to travel less than in the past, that being a factor in the lower toll.
Even the braindead public will eventually realise they've been had with the claims that a 4kph tolerance is responsible...or am I giving them too much credit?

I don't really know.
I have noticed that not many people overtake anymore (in cages) and that with the error in them most are only doing 90 at the most.
That might be a factor too.

[cold comfort]

You don't build passing lanes but you make the ones we have got useless by
1. ticketing overtakers who slip a few k's over the speed limit and
2. refusing to ticket slow vehicles that speed up when someone tries to pass
It is now common to see a queue of vehicles traversing a passing lane at 80-90kph because the truck in front is a road hog and everyone behind is too scared to pass in case it speeds up forcing them over 100k to stay safe when you'll hit them with a ticket. Once the nice straight passing lane is gone and everyone is back into the windies the truck drops back to 70 and everyone curses you - quite rightly.

This is so true-last trip back from Chch was in same boat. My RD was going nuts from being pulsed whilst in passing lanes, the bastards i attempted to pass kept speeding up thwarting that, and there was a line backing up as far as i could see:mad: What else can u do expect park in cruise control, fiddle with the stereo,and make cell phone calls to pass the time..:-)

[MarkH]

This is so true-last trip back from Chch was in same boat. My RD was going nuts from being pulsed whilst in passing lanes, the bastards i attempted to pass kept speeding up thwarting that, and there was a line backing up as far as i could see:mad: What else can u do expect park in cruise control, fiddle with the stereo,and make cell phone calls to pass the time..:-)

One huge advantage of riding a motorcycle is that you can sit behind the arseholes that speed up when the passing lane starts and shoot passed them when they slow down after the passing lane ends.
The good thing about driving a car is that it helps you understand how much better things are on a bike.




2. refusing to ticket slow vehicles that speed up when someone tries to pass
Can you show me your proof of this? I've been in court and seen a person prosecuted for it

So a person has been prosecuted for speeding up while being passed? What the fuck does that prove - that every rule has an exception?
What about the jerks that speed up while not being passed? Like those that speed up as they approach a passing lane and hold a solid 110kph (on non-holiday weekends) and then slow down to 85kph afterwards - that's not even illegal as far as I know (or if there is a law against that behaviour it isn't easy to enforce).

[Captain_Salty]

Like those that speed up as they approach a passing lane and hold a solid 110kph (on non-holiday weekends) and then slow down to 85kph afterwards
I think it's an old guy thing lol. same guy likes to sit in the right lane on the motorway doing exactly 100. If someone catches up to me then I just accept they wanna speed and help them pass, plus hopefully they'll mop up any cops ahead

[ukusa]

You are a deluded dreamer Hoon. QB 0 road deaths had causes other than the 4k :BS: as has been fully discuss here and else where. Nice Troll but next long weekend will revive all the discussion better.

the celebrations were short lived;
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10733808

doesn't appear to be driver fault either.

[Swoop]

the celebrations were short lived;
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10733808

Now that all the bullshit propaganda has been well and truly shovelled around by the public servants, they are not likely to retract that their "no deaths" statements were wrong.

I'm sure Paula Rose will try again though.

[oneofsix]

the celebrations were short lived;
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10733808

doesn't appear to be driver fault either.

sadly so was the pedestrian.
Young guy hit at traffic lights in the city. Speed not a factor. :gob: Actually speed was a factor as both the pedestrian and vehicle were moving, speed in excess of the limit or conditions was not a factor.

[oneofsix]

just noticed this in the article from the person who was crowing about the numbers

""We are in the habit of calculating success by calculating the number of deaths but we must not lose sight of the fact, that these are real lives we are talking about and any death is a tragedy," Ms Rose said. "

[Scuba_Steve]

just noticed this in the article from the person who was crowing about the numbers

""We are in the habit of calculating success by calculating the number of deaths but we must not lose sight of the fact, that these are real lives we are talking about and any death is a tragedy," Ms Rose said. "

"success" should be done on accidents & they know this!!! Its our cars saving us. Fewer accidents means we're getting somewhere, fewer deaths just mean vehicle manufactures are getting somewhere, & have kept a customer through improvement of safety devices.

[Ocean1]

"success" should be done on accidents & they know this!!!

Success should be based on the number of happy motorists, they're not there to invent and promulgate their own agenda, they’re public servants FFS

[oneofsix]

Success should be based on the number of happy motorists, they're not there to invent and promulgate their own agenda, they’re public servants FFS

:shit: they would never succeed!
reduction in accidents per km traveled

[scumdog]

sadly so was the pedestrian.
Young guy hit at traffic lights in the city. Speed not a factor. :gob: Actually speed was a factor as both the pedestrian and vehicle were moving, speed in excess of the limit or conditions was not a factor.


I guess 'they' will have to use the expression 'excessive speed' or 'exceeding the speed limit' for the bozos that don't understand they mean as such when the term 'speed was a factor' is used...<_<

[Scuba_Steve]

I guess 'they' will have to use the expression 'excessive speed' or 'exceeding the speed limit' for the bozos that don't understand they mean as such when the term 'speed was a factor' is used...<_<

they should already be using it, the reason they use "speed was a factor" is because it gives an impression of an 'uncontrollable speed' where as "exceeding the speed limit" would just have people going 'so???', it just doesn't sound as 'bad'. - Propaganda marketing 101

[Ocean1]

:shit: they would never succeed!
reduction in accidents per km traveled

It's already mind-numbingly low. They're wasting huge money trying to gain miniscule improvements. Take their budget off them and give it to someone who will improve roads.

[oneofsix]

It's already mind-numbingly low. They're wasting huge money trying to gain miniscule improvements. Take their budget off them and give it to someone who will improve roads.

what? like suicide prevention which outnumbers road deaths?

[ukusa]

what? like suicide prevention which outnumbers road deaths?

drownings are also very high in NZ. I bet their budget is almost non existant compared to road safety.

[oneofsix]

drownings are also very high in NZ. I bet their budget is almost non existant compared to road safety.

yeah they have got them sorted. Make it too expensive for school to keep their pools open and the curriculum impossible to fit swimming lessons in. Now all they need is a system that makes it profitable to fine people for going in the water when they can't swim. :puke: :p

[Bald Eagle]

Now all they need is a system that makes it profitable to fine people for going in the water when they can't swim. :puke: :p

I'm sure they're working on that, do you get a licence label to pin to your speedos.

[ukusa]

I'm sure they're working on that, do you get a licence label to pin to your speedos.

and fluro water wings as compulsory :lol:

[Ocean1]

yeah they have got them sorted. Make it too expensive for school to keep their pools open and the curriculum impossible to fit swimming lessons in. Now all they need is a system that makes it profitable to fine people for going in the water when they can't swim. :puke: :p

Pound to a pinch of shit there's more drownings now than there was before that wee "initiative".

Still, look on the bright side, drownings cost ACC fuck all.

[ukusa]

yeah they have got them sorted. Make it too expensive for school to keep their pools open and the curriculum impossible to fit swimming lessons in. Now all they need is a system that makes it profitable to fine people for going in the water when they can't swim. :puke: :p

and it's funny how swimming lessons used to be a part of the school curriculum, but driving never was (and still isn't). Yet driving is a much more useful tool in the big wide world, especially when it comes to employment opportunities. Yes, even more so than algebra!

[oneofsix]

and it's funny how swimming lessons used to be a part of the school curriculum, but driving never was (and still isn't). Yet driving is a much more useful tool in the big wide world, especially when it comes to employment opportunities. Yes, even more so than algebra!

Swimming you are best to learn young. Driving is best left until later and more subject to personal choice as to what if anything you drive. In a country surrounded with water and fill of lakes and rivers swimming is a must.

[pritch]

In pioneering days drownings were referred to as "The New Zealand death" so common were they. It seems that for various reasons they may be about to make a big jump in the statistics again?

When I went to school basically every kid learned to swim. The teachers I recall were all male. Perhaps too many female teachers are more interested in art than sport?

Reportedly schools don't have sufficient funding to operate their pools, interesting to contemplate whether that is correct of whether it is actually a question of priorities?

Whatever, it will cost lives. But nobody will be responsible...:whistle:

[oneofsix]

In pioneering days drownings were referred to as "The New Zealand death" so common were they. It seems that for various reasons they may be about to make a big jump in the statistics again?

When I went to school basically every kid learned to swim. The teachers I recall were all male. Perhaps too many female teachers are more interested in art than sport?

Reportedly schools don't have sufficient funding to operate their pools, interesting to contemplate whether that is correct of whether it is actually a question of priorities?

Whatever, it will cost lives. But nobody will be responsible...:whistle:

Funds to run pools has the potential to be a political football. It can be shown they have the money it is how the chose to spend it but really if you don't already have the trained staff the school is kind of screwed. To run the pool they need trained life saving staff, trained chemical handling staff and all the other shit to meet OSH requirements. As i understand it it is the cost of meeting the OSH and other regulation's requirements that is killing most school pools, not the cost of running the pool itself.

[scumdog]

F To run the pool they need trained life saving staff, trained chemical handling staff and all the other shit to meet OSH requirements. As i understand it it is the cost of meeting the OSH and other regulation's requirements that is killing most school pools, not the cost of running the pool itself.

Hardly worth it all - just to prevent a kid or two from drowning eh...:rolleyes:

[scumdog]

Still, look on the bright side, drownings cost ACC fuck all.

But tetraplegics caused by diving into shallow water must cost them a bundle eh...:(

[BoristheBiter]

In pioneering days drownings were referred to as "The New Zealand death" so common were they. It seems that for various reasons they may be about to make a big jump in the statistics again?

When I went to school basically every kid learned to swim. The teachers I recall were all male. Perhaps too many female teachers are more interested in art than sport?

Reportedly schools don't have sufficient funding to operate their pools, interesting to contemplate whether that is correct of whether it is actually a question of priorities?

Whatever, it will cost lives. But nobody will be responsible...:whistle:

You must have been at a posh school, we were told to run to the beach and swim there.

[pritch]

You must have been at a posh school, we were told to run to the beach and swim there.

In Christchurch I went to school on the airport, it woulda been a long run to the beach. Although with all the shaking going on down there the sea may be getting closer?

[oneofsix]

But tetraplegics caused by diving into shallow water must cost them a bundle eh...:(

only if rescued before they drowned :shutup:

[oneofsix]

Hardly worth it all - just to prevent a kid or two from drowning eh...:rolleyes:

exactly. I mean if they can't afford an rich kids private school then the chances are they are going to cost the govt. in welfare benefits and if you can't drown them at birth I guess not teaching them to swim in a wet, island country is the next best thing. :2thumbsup
This coupled with the enforced secrecy around suicides we should be able to cut benefit dependence in the lower middle section of the community. Pity the bottom feeders are too doped out to make it to the nearest body of water or get depressed enough about their status to relieve the wealthy of their presence.