Fuel storage at Manfeild

[CHOPPA]

Someone sent this through to me...

I need to raise with you and MNZ a new policy that has been introduced across the board at ALL circuits in NZ, but I suspect no-one has bothered to enlighten MNZ to this as it was driven by MSNZ…funny that.

The policy is being driven by ERMA and HSNO Act and is about potential impacts to the environment from fuel.

Please see attached a copy FYI.

We really need MNZ buy in to this and support to this message out to competitors. I have copied Clive from the Vic Club as they are our no.1 motorcycling client.

There are aspects of the policy that we as a circuit have to fulfil, in such that we have to provide an overnight storage facility. We will also be making changes to our hire agreements for both circuit and garaging to reflect this policy. At this stage we haven’t invested in the storage facility but will have to, being a 10 foot internal bund container, which hirers will get to use for overnight fuel storage. Basically competitors will need to start marking their containers and the hirer will need to have someone manning the container at the end of the day to store the fuel and then unlock the next day to distribute.

We are also going to become very strict on fuel storage in our garages as anything over 40L is a breach of the policy and also our Insurance. Hirers will be asked to sign a hire agreement that states they cannot store more than 40L and if they do and a fire does happen they will be liable.

The main effect of this policy is when we have two day meetings where people remain onsite with quantities of fuel.

Please have a read and pass to your CEO (I couldn’t find his email to copy), but would ask that MNZ look to embrace the policy and assist in getting the message and rules within the policy out to its many members and competitors.

I would be interested to know if any other circuit has bought this to your attention.

[roogazza]

Mmmmmm Choppa, I'm guessing we'd be laughed out of the pub nowdays ?
I think we were probably the first to store our petrol in the cold store of the Feilding Pub for the Castrol Six hour races !!! G.

[Marknz]

Hardly surprising given the highly regulated society we leave in nowadays. But I'll stick with my 20L container thank you very much.

Cheers

[Bykmad]

Choppa.

It is a 41 page document of which I received a copy yesterday, so I cannot load it on this site. I could however E-mail it to you if you desire. PM me.
When I rang the MNZ Office, the General Managers comment was, "What Fuel Storage Strategy".
Oh, by the way, it doesnt just apply to Manfeild. It is EVERY circuit in the country!

[Shaun]

I just DRINK my spare fuel

[CHOPPA]

Choppa.

It is a 41 page document of which I received a copy yesterday, so I cannot load it on this site. I could however E-mail it to you if you desire. PM me.
When I rang the MNZ Office, the General Managers comment was, "What Fuel Storage Strategy".
Oh, by the way, it doesnt just apply to Manfeild. It is EVERY circuit in the country!

Yeah i didnt bother reading it cause i never have more then 20l of fuel

[Deano]

The rules will apply per garage not per individual. Anyone got an approved handlers certificate ? LOL

[jellywrestler]

Time for a Electric bike class eh?

[Fooman]

The rules will apply per garage not per individual. Anyone got an approved handlers certificate ? LOL

Actually, as an approved handler for Classes 2,3,4,5,6,8 and 9, I can recall in the course it was mentioned that handling petrol (which would be Class 3.1 - most flammable of the flammable liquids class) is specifically exempted from the legislation - otherwise no-one would be able to pump gas into their car without breaking the law unless they were approved handlers for 3.1. Storage, or commercial usage outside transportation may be a different matter, which is why the circuits may be having an issue - they run a business which involves the storage of a hazardous, flammable material.

Cheers,
FM

[Deano]

Actually, IIRC only one approved handler is required per site at any one time - in any case I was just having a larf, hence the LOL at the end.

[scracha]

Hardly surprising given the highly regulated society we leave in nowadays. But I'll stick with my 20L container thank you very much.

Cheers

Do the motorcycles themselves count? 12 bikes stored in garage, typically 1/2 fuelled up so that's about 100 litres.

[steveyb]

This new regime will not only affect fuel storage, but also the fire extinguisher policy, esp at Manfeild, is going to change slightly and be more rigorously enforced apparently.
For example, for those renting pit-lane garages, you will need to supply your own 9kg (I think it is 9) CO2 extinguisher AND a 9kg (again I think it is 9, might be 6) powder extinguisher. This is a requirement of their building insurance apparently.

The fuel policy has been driven by ERMA, OSH and Motorsport NZ, so ALL of the wording refers to cars and car use. There has been no consultation with Motorcycling NZ and no thought to how it impacts motorcycle use.
But if you think about it, in most cases bikes will have on board only very slightly smaller amounts of gas as most cars. Sure the bigger V8s and the like will have more, but most of the Production cars will not run much gas at a time I would think.
BUT, I am feeling that the days of storing 12 bikes in the pit-lane garages at least, might be coming to an end.

EDIT: For Pit-lane garages it is: 1 x 4.5kg CO2 AND 1 x 4.5kg Powder. For endurance races they must be 9kg.
EDIT:

[schrodingers cat]

Welcome to the big can o worms!

Back in 07(?) when the Toyota Racing Series coverted to E85 Ethanol is was necessary to
a. the get stuff approved for use without excise tax (alcohol you see)
b. Have a document to cover the handling of this VERY HAZARDOUS MATERIAL. (incidentally, if petrol were invented today, the conditions surrounding the use, storage and handling would make it impractical to be bothered with the stuff)

A couple of other things came out of this. Because some of the people these days at the racetrack are paid professionals, the pits are deemed to be a 'place of work' and all the OSH BULLSHIT applies
The Code of Practice, Motorsport Fuel, Storage and Handling is here http://www.motorsport.org.nz/Regs/manual.htm#CodeofPracticeFuel

Much of this is obviously impractical but these are the hoops they had to jump through to keep the Dept of Labour happy. Having nothing better to do with their time DOL has been sending inspectors to car meetings to ensure everyone is behaving

Incidentally - if you are someone who supplies goods or services at the track for reward then you (if self employed) or your employer is ultimately responsible and accountable for your safety. There should be a copy of hazard analysis, a training and monitering plan, first aid kit, extinguishers, List of employe details with next of kin etc, acident/incident reporting forms all in your pit garage

The fuel thing has been a bit of an issue - in 06 (?) Mike Pero Motosport had a pit fire and were verrrrrry lucky their awning didn't catch fire.
The first time the new pit garages at Manfeild got used for the Toyota Racing Series there was a big pit fire.
The endurance car guys are tighening their regs - some of the refuelling rigs in the past were spooky and 200l+ per car spooky...

Fuel in a vehicle tank doesn't count. Same as when you have a vehicle in a truck/trailer. The tank can be full but you are only allowed (I think) 40l fuel in churns.

In the back of your car you're only supposed to have 5l

I'm a bit unsure of the last two amounts - someone will know the actuals - please correct me

[Gubb]

The rules will apply per garage not per individual. Anyone got an approved handlers certificate ? LOL
I do. Lend me your spare bike, and I'm sure we can work out a deal.

:shifty:

[roadracingoldfart]

Mmmmmm Choppa, I'm guessing we'd be laughed out of the pub nowdays ?
I think we were probably the first to store our petrol in the cold store of the Feilding Pub for the Castrol Six hour races !!! G.



You sneeky bugger , we used the Awahiri pub cause the Feilding one had already made an "arrangment " lol.

[Nicksta]

I got the email too and am writing a few questions to Steve at Manfield.... i guess this new ruling was made with cars in mind.. where its one competitor per garage... not like us who fit on average 3-6 competitors per garage, each with a 20L gas can i suspect. I also wonder if they consider the new sheds and doubles as 2 garages? I can understand 20L max per old garage, but the doubles could have double the amount of gas? I wonder also if the rule applies to gas stored in the garage itself, not including the support vans/trailers/cars outside? gosh soo much to think about on a long weekend!

[wharfy]

might start running the van on 98 - then just syphon ten litres at a time into my small fuel container ?

[schrodingers cat]

THe story with cars is no more than one 20l fule churn PER car in the garage at a time. Don't sit them all tidily together as that rather defeats the purpose.

What you keep in your van/trailer is up to you but best to plan on buying the fuel locally as to travel with lots o litres of fuel in multiple fuel churns is a big no-no.
Obviously not a priority for policing in the way that exceeding the posted speed limit by 4km/h but it does attract heafty fines

[roogazza]

You sneeky bugger , we used the Awahiri pub cause the Feilding one had already made an "arrangment " lol.
Bugger me, you'll remember those dry old stalls with dirt floor made in about WW2 with dry hay all around ? Everyone smoking (cos it was compulsary) petrol everywhere with carbs being jetted ! How did we ever survive ? I can't recall any fires either. Gaz

[roadracingoldfart]

Bugger me, you'll remember those dry old stalls with dirt floor made in about WW2 with dry hay all around ? Everyone smoking (cos it was compulsary) petrol everywhere with carbs being jetted ! How did we ever survive ? I can't recall any fires either. Gaz


Hell Gazza , no disrespect to the presant crop of racers but i bet they would never believe the conditions we had to endure in the pits .
I remember having to put wood under the stand to stop the bike sinking in the dirt , standard pit tool was a rake to clean the horse shit away , if you didnt have a torch you could loose all sorts on the floor lol. The back stalls were my fave ( by the potty block) cause you could always have a chat th guys in the potty cue from your dirt box lol.
I remember a couple of fires but most of those were hay fires started after leaning a bike over to fix an oil leak or whatever , Ahhhh the good old days . When racers were tuff , and fancy stuff like warmers were the hotty you stuffed down your leathersa on a cold winter series day.

Paul.

[quickbuck]

Okay,
Back to the Rules thing.... IF each garage has to have 2 x 4.5kg fire extinguishers compulsory, then why aren't they provided with the garage?
Obviously rents might well go up a little, but it is better than forking out for two bottles to only be sat there in the garage at home for most of the time..

Wouldn't it be better that said bottles remain at the track??

Also, when was the last time Joe motorcycle racer got his fire extinguisher serviced?
Might be "just another one of this things I forgot about".

Would be better for the Circuit to get a contractor to come and inspect them all at the same time!
Obviously any that are used... Well, I guess insurance will pay for a new one....??? Hate to make that user pays...

[xr-rider]

Hell Gazza , no disrespect to the presant crop of racers but i bet they would never believe the conditions we had to endure in the pits .
I remember having to put wood under the stand to stop the bike sinking in the dirt , standard pit tool was a rake to clean the horse shit away , if you didnt have a torch you could loose all sorts on the floor lol. The back stalls were my fave ( by the potty block) cause you could always have a chat th guys in the potty cue from your dirt box lol.
I remember a couple of fires but most of those were hay fires started after leaning a bike over to fix an oil leak or whatever , Ahhhh the good old days . When racers were tuff , and fancy stuff like warmers were the hotty you stuffed down your leathersa on a cold winter series day.

Paul.

What year was that photo taken paul?

[steveyb]

I made an error in my earlier post about extinguishers.
This from Manfeild Ops manager:

2.4…our current Pit Lane garage management plan which is posted on every wall in those garages requires competitors to have a 9L Foam and a 9kg Dry Powder…this is an insurance requirement over an above the Policy, but yes the policy insists EVERY competitor whether Bikes or Cars has a an extinguisher. We will not supply them in the garages as they will get taken. We will supply and have always had extinguishers in Pit Lane for test days whether cars or bikes.

Not 4.5kg as I thought, but 9kg and 9L.

No specific mention of other garages requirements, but given that the risks of losing the pitlane building are greater than the old garages and stalls, I would think that they are minimal in comparison.

The reason they state that extinguishers are not provided is that they would go walkabout.
I would have thought that it would be an OHS and building code requirement for the owner of the building to provide fire fighting equipment to protect its buildings and also to protect its staff. If there is a fire and the user of the building is not there (e.g. they are on their own and out on track) what happens then?
If a neighbouring user gets involved and makes it worse, do they become liable?
If the track staff turn up and cannot find the extinguisher, or it doesn't work, what then?
Our common practice of having a small 1.5kg extinguisher lying on the floor somewhere in the garage and who knows where, is clearly inadequate.
Go on, those of you with multiple users in one garage, who provides it and who tells everyone where it is and then who tells anyone how to use it?
Different fires need different treatment techniques.

These extinguishers need to be mounted somewhere in a safe place where everyone in the garage and all those entering it can find it.

He won't thank me for saying it, but we do have at least one senior firefighter on site at almost all our race meetings.
He can be found head down and bum up under the Celtic Leathers awning.

Can - o - worms in my book.

[Shaun]

I made an error in my earlier post about extinguishers.
This from Manfeild Ops manager:

2.4…our current Pit Lane garage management plan which is posted on every wall in those garages requires competitors to have a 9L Foam and a 9kg Dry Powder…this is an insurance requirement over an above the Policy, but yes the policy insists EVERY competitor whether Bikes or Cars has a an extinguisher. We will not supply them in the garages as they will get taken. We will supply and have always had extinguishers in Pit Lane for test days whether cars or bikes.

Not 4.5kg as I thought, but 9kg and 9L.

No specific mention of other garages requirements, but given that the risks of losing the pitlane building are greater than the old garages and stalls, I would think that they are minimal in comparison.

The reason they state that extinguishers are not provided is that they would go walkabout.
I would have thought that it would be an OHS and building code requirement for the owner of the building to provide fire fighting equipment to protect its buildings and also to protect its staff. If there is a fire and the user of the building is not there (e.g. they are on their own and out on track) what happens then?
If a neighbouring user gets involved and makes it worse, do they become liable?
If the track staff turn up and cannot find the extinguisher, or it doesn't work, what then?
Our common practice of having a small 1.5kg extinguisher lying on the floor somewhere in the garage and who knows where, is clearly inadequate.
Go on, those of you with multiple users in one garage, who provides it and who tells everyone where it is and then who tells anyone how to use it?
Different fires need different treatment techniques.

These extinguishers need to be mounted somewhere in a safe place where everyone in the garage and all those entering it can find it.

He won't thank me for saying it, but we do have at least one senior firefighter on site at almost all our race meetings.
He can be found head down and bum up under the Celtic Leathers awning.

Can - o - worms in my book.


I believe, that you CANNOT legaly hire anything out, if it itself is NOT legal? So how can any track company hire out sheds with out Fire Exti in them if that makes them NOT legal

[CHOPPA]

At $200 a day you would think they could supply them...

[schrodingers cat]

Pay a bond and get them with the garage key. Therefore key holder takes responsibility for keeping track of them.

Don't you love the ripples of bureaucracy?

[roadracingoldfart]

What year was that photo taken paul?


That was about 2002 - 2003 Jeff. Before it looked pretty lol.


Pay and bond and get them with the garage key. Therefore key holder takes responsibility for keeping track of them.

Don't you love the ripples of bureaucracy?


OMG , i agree with him :gob::shit: He will never believe im serious.
I like the bond and rental agreement part , but i dont like to think of the cost of the increase from manfield for the garage rental.

Paul.

[roadracingoldfart]

The reason they state that extinguishers are not provided is that they would go walkabout.
I would have thought that it would be an OHS and building code requirement for the owner of the building to provide fire fighting equipment to protect its buildings and also to protect its staff. If there is a fire and the user of the building is not there (e.g. they are on their own and out on track) what happens then?



I have never looked up in the pit lane garages Steve , is there a sprinkler system fitted in them ???

Paul.

[Tony.OK]

So the fuel reg is no biggie........just leave ya fuel in the trailer or outside(hopefully it won't get pinched). I thought the rules didn't allow refuelling inside the garages anyway?

Is this extinguisher thing just for the pit lane sheds or all of them? Can't see alot of folks rushing out to spend hundreds on extinguishers, might be easier to buy a decent tent?

[Sidewinder]

thats why ya take it home with ya and full up on the way to the track duh!

[Kiwi Graham]

I think this could go deeper than simply how much and where you keep your fuel on the day.
It may end up with deignated refuling areas (was tried in the uk) having a 'trained' suitibly equiped fireman stood next to you (Le Mans) the list could go on.

How the fuck are the car guys going to manage it with the amount of gas they haul around.

Alot of tracks in the uk and europe ended up putting in fuel bowsers to get over this and having to charge mega $ for it.

The nanny state is taking over!

[Shaun]

I think this could go deeper than simply how much and where you keep your fuel on the day.
It may end up with deignated refuling areas (was tried in the uk) having a 'trained' suitibly equiped fireman stood next to you (Le Mans) the list could go on.

How the fuck are the car guys going to manage it with the amount of gas they haul around.

Alot of tracks in the uk and europe ended up putting in fuel bowsers to get over this and having to charge mega $ for it.

The nanny state is taking over!


That is because our state is based on dam POMY land

[Kickaha]

Alot of tracks in the uk and europe ended up putting in fuel bowsers to get over this and having to charge mega $ for it.


Ruapuna has had one for as long as I can remember and while more expensive than some other places not mega $ more

[Team JDR]

sorry logged on as wrong person ment to be on as ivan

[Ivan]

Woops thats better its getting carried away regarding fuel who is going to be a fireman to stand by if they bring that law in as you need to be trained I could be a fireman on the day but I would be riding its rediculous lets hope this is only for serious ammounts of fuel and not the 20litre supercheap auto fuel can

[schrodingers cat]

Ruapuna has had one for as long as I can remember and while more expensive than some other places not mega $ more

The Ruapuna facility sold AvGas. Now that it is being 'phased out' (banned) from car racing the facility will probably be dismantled.
At Teir One level ,Motorsport New Zealand put out to tender for fuel supplies at the track. Our old friends BP are the officiial supplier. They bring a 10 or 20ft container with drums of fuel and sell it to you 100l max at a time. The price - a bargin at $2.50l. No, you can't drive out the gate and buy some at the servo for $1.90l

Arse

[Kickaha]

No, you can't drive out the gate and buy some at the servo for $1.90l

You can if you race a bike and only run it on 98

[schrodingers cat]

You can if you race a bike and only run it on 98

To clarify - the situation regarding the use of only the (expensive) official fuei in car racing is only at Teir One - for now.
Otherwise its a case of please yourself.

I have a couple of jiggers with sealed ECU's which are just as happy on 91


Given that shit only flows downhill, it would seem that bike racing is 2 - 3 years behind the car twits

[schrodingers cat]

You can if you race a bike and only run it on 98


You can if you race a bike and only run it on 98

To clarify - the situation regarding the use of only the (expensive) official fuei in car racing is only at Teir One - for now.
Otherwise its a case of please yourself.

I have a couple of jiggers with sealed ECU's which are just as happy on 91


Given that shit only flows downhill, it would seem that bike racing is 2 - 3 years behind the car twits

[Grumph]

I asked several months ago what was happening at the Ruapuna fuel installation and was told it will carry E85 from some time in June...

Looks like a remit to accept E85 in the classes allowed 100 octane - and Methanol...