Interesting reading - speed limit tolerance

[phill-k]

This is interesting reading

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/3780052/Taupo-cop-sets-pace-on-speed

If as they say it has had an effect, that's good, but they also need to consider that if they have had a constant high presence on the road, this won't only have an effect on speed but also concentration, and thus people paying more attention to their driving.
Speed on its own does not kill, it it the ability or lack there of, of the person behind the wheel.

[NZsarge]

Yes I believe it has far more to do with Police presence rather the a reduction of 5kph in their tolerance and that in it's self is a no brainer really. I also think they should pay more attention to slow moving traffic that has a lot of traffic backed up behind them.

[p.dath]

I think the increased Police presence on the road and not enforcing a 5km/h tolerance will be related to the change the Police are seeing.

Would be interesting to know the average speed on their roads compared to the rest of the country - which the Police say is currently 96km/h - already below the legal limit.

[CookMySock]

"Saying that it has had an effect" is hearsay. Where are there before and after results? Those are some of the widest and safest roads in the whole country.

I'd say he is more trying to prove his peers wrong and be a hero to his own industry. Picture him speaking at some conference to huge applause.


Steve

[Kickaha]

Where are there before and after results?

Between November 2008 and April 2009 a total of 24 people died on Taupo area's roads compared with three in the same period 2009 to 2010.

Didn't you read that bit?

[CookMySock]

Between November 2008 and April 2009 a total of 24 people died on Taupo area's roads compared with three in the same period 2009 to 2010.

Didn't you read that bit?Nope. LOL.

Steve

[Murray]

Those are some of the widest and safest roads in the whole country.

Steve

I would say I have seen some of the worst driving ever between Taupo and Taurangi and some of the passing on the windy bits in the desert road is unbelievable. Definately not wide and safe in my book.

The presence is what it is all about, having a 5km less tolerance than the rest of the country would make stuff all difference. 5Km pffttt

[Ocean1]

Didn't you read that bit?

Actually, neither did I.

I've given up taking any notice of the sub-set stat's presented in favour of any gov't policy.

In that area the weather makes that much difference, and more.

[Scuba_Steve]

Speed has never killed anyone, & its used as a cop out. If someone crashes at 80km/h in 100km/h area they'll go looking for driver mistake/inability, road conditions, mechanical etc. But if they were doing 120km/h its was "speed" thats bullshit! it was the same reasons just at a faster speed, then they have this 4km/h tolerance bull saying "speed is killing us", well most of the deaths actually happen within the speed limit so if anything speed is saving us. Also if speed is such a killer explain the autobahn a road with some of the fastest speeds & least deaths.

Then theres Northern Territory in OZ -
"Up until 2007, rural roads in the Northern Territory, Australia had no speed limit. Claiming that speed limits were essential to saving lives, the state government imposed a 130km/h (80 MPH) limit on the Stuart, Arnhem, Victoria and Barkly highways and a 110km/h (68 MPH) speed limit on all other roads, unless otherwise marked lower. Despite the best of intentions, however, the number of road deaths actually increased 70 percent after the change -- despite worldwide drop in traffic levels"

and as far as cameras go -
"UK/Australia study shows speed cameras reversed a decades-long trend toward fewer accidents."
"The net result of years of speed cameras in Britain and Australia is that road speeds have not slowed significantly, the downward trend in serious accidents and fatalities has been almost totally lost, hundreds of thousands of the safest drivers are convicted each year and the goodwill between law abiding citizens and the police is evaporating. In the midst of all this, British and Australian State governments are selling their speed campaigns as a great success. Don't believe it." - Dr. Alan Buckingham

[flyingcrocodile46]

Speed has never killed anyone, & its used as a cop out. If someone crashes at 80km/h in 100km/h area they'll go looking for driver mistake/inability, road conditions, mechanical etc. But if they were doing 120km/h its was "speed" thats bullshit! it was the same reasons just at a faster speed, then they have this 4km/h tolerance bull saying "speed is killing us", well most of the deaths actually happen within the speed limit so if anything speed is saving us. Also if speed is such a killer explain the autobahn a road with some of the fastest speeds & least deaths.

Then theres Northern Territory in OZ -
"Up until 2007, rural roads in the Northern Territory, Australia had no speed limit. Claiming that speed limits were essential to saving lives, the state government imposed a 130km/h (80 MPH) limit on the Stuart, Arnhem, Victoria and Barkly highways and a 110km/h (68 MPH) speed limit on all other roads, unless otherwise marked lower. Despite the best of intentions, however, the number of road deaths actually increased 70 percent after the change -- despite worldwide drop in traffic levels"

and as far as cameras go -
"UK/Australia study shows speed cameras reversed a decades-long trend toward fewer accidents."
"The net result of years of speed cameras in Britain and Australia is that road speeds have not slowed significantly, the downward trend in serious accidents and fatalities has been almost totally lost, hundreds of thousands of the safest drivers are convicted each year and the goodwill between law abiding citizens and the police is evaporating. In the midst of all this, British and Australian State governments are selling their speed campaigns as a great success. Don't believe it." - Dr. Alan Buckingham


:first: Exactly. The police are simply lying their fucking arses off to protect the revenue stream

[shrub]

Between November 2008 and April 2009 a total of 24 people died on Taupo area's roads compared with three in the same period 2009 to 2010.

Didn't you read that bit?

As someone with some understanding of statistical analysis, there is a golden rule: correlation is not cause. Given the dramatic difference and the very short period I would say that there are many other factors at play here, and our noble Police Ossifer is using a statistical anomaly to support his position.

[Scuba_Steve]

our noble Police Ossifer is using a statistical anomaly to support his position.

But if you take that away from them almost none of their statistics work...
after all There are 3 types of lies in this world. "Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics"

[shrub]

But if you take that away from them almost none of their statistics work...
after all There are 3 types of lies in this world. "Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics"

I can find statistics that have been much more scientifically collated that point very strongly to a DECREASE in road fatalities when open road speed limits are increased. People also forget that there are all kinds of different speeds - driving around town I think a 4 kmh tolerance is entirely fair because in many places 50 kmh is too fast, but on an open highway 104 kmh is not dangerous, and in fact 120 kmh may be safer. We have a "one size fits all" mentality that is doing us no favours.

[davebullet]

I'm thinking of asking my doctor to diagnose me with an infringement intolerance or police intolerance. That way, I can present it when I next get pulled over and argue it is against my health and could result in an allergic reaction to receive a ticket.

[flyingcrocodile46]

I'm thinking of asking my doctor to diagnose me with an infringement intolerance or police intolerance. That way, I can present it when I next get pulled over and argue it is against my health and could result in an allergic reaction to receive a ticket.


ROTFLMFAO :laugh:

[phill-k]

"Saying that it has had an effect" is hearsay. Where are there before and after results? Those are some of the widest and safest roads in the whole country.

I'd say he is more trying to prove his peers wrong and be a hero to his own industry. Picture him speaking at some conference to huge applause.


Steve

In the article they reference the road toll for the area since introducing their policy, this is dramatically down and that really is the only quantifiable result. However is that because of stricter enforcement or greater presence meaning drivers in the area pay much more attention to their surroundings.

[MSTRS]

In the article they reference the road toll for the area since introducing their policy, this is dramatically down and that really is the only quantifiable result. However is that because of stricter enforcement or greater presence meaning drivers in the area pay much more attention to their surroundings.

One year compared to the next means nothing. None of us are fooled. It takes many years to show a trend. And trends are where it's at. Not anomolies.

[Kickaha]

I would say that there are many other factors at play here, and our noble Police Ossifer is using a statistical anomaly to support his position.

You might say that, however it doesn't mean you are right or vice versa

[shrub]

You might say that, however it doesn't mean you are right or vice versa

I don't claim to be "right" about anything beyond a belief that trying to link an 800% decrease in fatalities to a minor tweaking of speed tolerance is disingenuous at best. Our Masters tell us that speed is a factor in 30% of crashes, so if they're right and our admirably zealous cuntstables managed to stop everyone from speeding, all you'd see is a 30% decrease. Any statistician who tried to identify a causal relationship with such limited data would be laughed at.

Basically he's talking shit.

[shrub]

One year compared to the next means nothing. None of us are fooled. It takes many years to show a trend. And trends are where it's at. Not anomolies.

What he said.

[Kickaha]

Basically he's talking shit.

So if they continue with their enforcement and the fatality rate stays low over the 2-3 years will he still have been talking shit?

[shrub]

So if they continue with their enforcement and the fatality rate stays low over the 2-3 years will he still have been talking shit?

Probably. Given the tolerance decrease is only 5 kmh, and that even Our Masters only claim that 30% of crashes are caused by speed (which is not entirely true), that the sample size is so small, that crashes rarely have one single cause; yes he's talking shit. You will need to take into account every variable, measure their relationships with each other and measure the proportionality of their influence on each other before you will be able to attribute such a minor tweak to anything.

Kind of like saying "my bike will be much faster if I fit Harris Pipes", but not taking into account cams, breathing, fuelling etc, and how each influences the other.

[duckonin]

Between November 2008 and April 2009 a total of 24 people died on Taupo area's roads compared with three in the same period 2009 to 2010.

Didn't you read that bit?

Total 'propaganda' bullshit. can they prove that facts relate emphatically to the 5ks over 100k's no they cannot, heaps of other variables are present..

[Kickaha]

Total 'propaganda' bullshit. can they prove that facts relate emphatically to the 5ks over 100k's no they cannot, heaps of other variables are present..

Can you prove otherwise?

[flyingcrocodile46]

Can you prove otherwise?


He doesn't need to. He ain't the one making bullshit claims.

It pisses me off when people argue statistics are the be all to end all when clearly they have no fucking clue. It causes lapses in my concentration when I am pulling 100 mile monos on my Goldwing

[duckonin]

Can you prove otherwise?

Can u prove I am wrong?

[Kickaha]

He doesn't need to. He ain't the one making bullshit claims.

It pisses me off when people argue statistics are the be all to end all when clearly they have no fucking clue. It causes lapses in my concentration when I am pulling 100 mile monos on my Goldwing

Now I know you're talking as much bullshit as him, everyone knows shafties can't wheelie :whistle:


Can u prove I am wrong?

Didn't claim I could, can you prove you're right no? didn't think so, of course motorcyclists wouldn't talk as much bullshit or try and use statstics that were incorrect or misleading would they :bleh:

[MSTRS]

Didn't claim I could, can you prove you're right no? didn't think so, of course motorcyclists wouldn't talk as much bullshit or try and use statstics that were incorrect or misleading would they :bleh:
The problem with statistics is that anyone can make them say anything. At least to a large extent. When an argument is 'supported' by the use of statistics, then the only counter weapon is use of the same...

[scumdog]

Can you prove otherwise?

It's KB - you can post any shit you want without proving it!

[DarkLord]

I commute from Taupo till about 10 minutes before Turangi every day. Lately I've seen a cop pretty much every time I have been on that road. It has helped me keep my speed down especially as I got clocked at 123 the other day and got 35 demerits and a $170 fine :P

Even though the road itself has improved, it is the idiots driving on the road that make it unsafe. The amount of times I've nearly been collected in a head on by stupid pricks coming the other way wanting to overtake without giving themselves enough clear space is crazy.

[rwh]

I don't claim to be "right" about anything beyond a belief that trying to link an 800% decrease in fatalities to a minor tweaking of speed tolerance is disingenuous at best. Our Masters tell us that speed is a factor in 30% of crashes, so if they're right and our admirably zealous cuntstables managed to stop everyone from speeding, all you'd see is a 30% decrease. Any statistician who tried to identify a causal relationship with such limited data would be laughed at.

Basically he's talking shit.

On that subject ... a reduction from 24 to 3 is an 87.5% decrease, not 800%.

Richard

[shrub]

On that subject ... a reduction from 24 to 3 is an 87.5% decrease, not 800%.

Richard

Correct. :Oops::Oops::Oops:

And it looks like Paula Rose et al are patting themselves on the back and declaring the 4 kmh tolerance an unmitigated suceess, and will make it universal. I predict that within 12 months Our Masters will have 4 kmh the default tolerance. They will then sit back and ignore the real problem: a hell of a lot of people who just don't have the skill to drive a car safely on the roads, even at 54 kmh.

[Kickaha]

So why don't they concentrate on shitty driving rather than speed or is it just more likely that motorcyclists as a group having such outstanding bike control don't ever get pulled up for anything other than speeding?

Is the information regarding what tickets are issued for available to the public?

[Ocean1]

So why don't they concentrate on shitty driving rather than speed

Greatest Enforcable Risk.

"Shitty" usually ain't quantifiable. What's more it don't figure in their current policy set, quite the reverse, they actively campaign against anything that might detract from budget allocated to speed enforcement.

They've got one thing in their favour: it's inarguable that speed causes injuries. But that's also not the full story eh?

[duckonin]

Can you prove otherwise?

Again why should I have to prove otherwise, have you not got a brain to get it figured out yourself?, maybe I could start you off to help you out ..Now lets start at (1) and we go to (50) variables that is, forget the 5k's..One =inattention 2=that is for you to do by the time you get to 50 you should have it all worked out, then you should see what I wrote would or may be correct....would even invite Scumdog to participate,maybe you could do it together, yep a good bonding session for you boys in the South..Scummy is such a knowledgeable person he should get at least one right without having to rely on being brainwashed by his superior's...

[Kickaha]

then you should see what I wrote would or may be correct.....

The crucial word being "may" but then again it may not

[duckonin]

The crucial word being "may" but then again it may not

HAHA ..if you apply yourself to the task I set you then you may see it in a different light..

[Kickaha]

.would even invite Scumdog to participate,maybe you could do it together, yep a good bonding session for you boys in the South..

Well I am in Dunedin shortly maybe I will call down to see him and ask for his help

[quickbuck]

Okay,
Has anybody carried out an "Accident vs Fuel Price" analysis?

I have always said the price of fuel has more to do with traffic behaviour than any amount of policing ever will.

This is because, as has been alluded to, drivers tend to behave better with Police Presents.
However, we ALL feel it when you don't get as much fuel for your dollar... OR, the tank costs twice as much to fill as a couple of years ago (Depends how you look at it).

As shrub said, we need to wait a little while for the trend to emerge before people pat themselves on the back.
Heck, dare i say it, a minivan could go off Bully Point, and that would throw the figures right out of there....

[MSTRS]

Okay,

Heck, dare i say it, a minivan could go off Bully Point, and that would throw the figures right out of there....
You are right. Imagine the hand-wringing that would go on, if a tour bus with 45 on board went over Skippers. All killed. Give it a month or two, and all that 'they' would look at would be the number. Statistical anomoly. And one that would be ignored, other than "This is unacceptably high. We need to slower speeds (or some other crock that is meaningless)"

[scumdog]

You are right. Imagine the hand-wringing that would go on, if a tour bus with 45 on board went over Skippers. All killed. Give it a month or two, and all that 'they' would look at would be the number. Statistical anomoly. And one that would be ignored, other than "This is unacceptably high. We need to slower speeds (or some other crock that is meaningless)"

Of course if the tours bus in the Skippers had been speeding...??

[Blinkwing]

So why don't they concentrate on shitty driving rather than speed

Focus on speeding:
+Easier than focusing on driver education.
+More revenue via fines.
-Not a long term solution, does not address the real issue.

Focus on driver education:
-Loss leader, no revenue gain.
-Less licensing income (revenue) due to shittier drivers being refused licenses.
+Less wankers on the road.

That's all I can think of, but of course, these are just general guesses .. not concrete evidence. The next post may as well shoot my post out of the water.

[Mudfart]

http://msn.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10650061&ref=rss
erm, as far as I'm aware a queens birthday weekend is 3 days and today is sunday, the second day. Lets just wait and see how many get caught out on the slippery roads with bad weather.
however I'm all for the new policy if it makes cars think more about actually driving as a skill rather than an instinct of "get in the car and go".
Coz that means they will be more aware of bikes. Lets face it, even the biggest most uncoordinated moron can and does get their license.
I've not heard of anyone being that crap, that they never get a license.

[Genestho]

It's a pity we couldn't go ahead and do something like this summary of 100 car study, quite interesting info gathered....

[Headbanger]

http://msn.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10650061&ref=rss


God damn, are the people in charge really that fucking stupid?

I find it hard to believe they have reached the positions they have when that is the shit they come out with.

I'm also waiting for our resident cops to put their brains in gear, are they even capable anymore?

or is it a case of........baaaaaaa?

[scumdog]

God damn, are the people in charge really that fucking stupid?

I find it hard to believe they have reached the positions they have when that is the shit they come out with.

I'm also waiting for our resident cops to put their brains in gear, are they even capable anymore?

or is it a case of........baaaaaaa?

No.
It's baaaa humbug..

[Kickaha]

Only one fatal on the weekend so far looks like the new speed tolerance policy is working :whistle:

[shrub]

Only one fatal on the weekend so far looks like the new speed tolerance policy is working :whistle:

Maybe they should introduce a zero tolerance - it should start bringing dead people back to life.

Statistics is not that simple - there are numerous variables attached to traffic crashes, and changing one independent variable without looking at what's happening with every other variable means any correlations claimed are spurious. You might as well say "we have had extreme weather in the BOP this weekend, and the road toll has dropped, therefore the cause of high crash rates is the weather in the BOP". The weather has quite probably had some impact because a lot of people won't have gone anywhere so stayed off the road, but it's silly to claim it is the sole cause just as it's silly to claim that this decrease in tolerance is the sole cause. It may have stopped a few crashes, but it may also have caused others. A trained statistician would need to spend a hell of a lot of time analysing every piece of data before any causality could be assigned and changing policy (which is what will happen) is either silly or cynical.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Maybe they should introduce a zero tolerance - it should start bringing dead people back to life.

Statistics is not that simple - there are numerous variables attached to traffic crashes, and changing one independent variable without looking at what's happening with every other variable means any correlations claimed are spurious. You might as well say "we have had extreme weather in the BOP this weekend, and the road toll has dropped, therefore the cause of high crash rates is the weather in the BOP". The weather has quite probably had some impact because a lot of people won't have gone anywhere so stayed off the road, but it's silly to claim it is the sole cause just as it's silly to claim that this decrease in tolerance is the sole cause. It may have stopped a few crashes, but it may also have caused others. A trained statistician would need to spend a hell of a lot of time analysing every piece of data before any causality could be assigned and changing policy (which is what will happen) is either silly or cynical.

Very true. Total waste of time if not done right. Did anyone count the volume of traffic?... No! of course not

[shrub]

Very true. Total waste of time if not done right. Did anyone count the volume of traffic?... No! of course not

It's not a total waste of time if the objective of the exercise is to soften up the public so they're happy when Our Masters remove the 10 kmh speed tolerance.

I've noticed the propaganda ministry have been changing the speeding ads from guys going well over the speed limit to just over (the father taking his son to sports who gets pinged for 112 kmh) to the guy who is mindlessly driving his Corolla around town at speeds reaching (shock, horror!) 60 kmh, and if he'd been doing 50 he'd have been fine, but he wasn't...

Last year's road toll was outside of normal expectations for a number of reasons, but Our Masters won't mention that. Tonight Paula Rose and her controllers will crow delightedly that the strategy of dropping the tolerance saved the lives of ordinary New Zealanders, so will be "trialled" again (probably on another time period that had a higher than normal road toll last year), and the experiment will be declared to be unequivocally successful, meaning that "in our best interests" Our Masters will replace the 10 kmh buffer with a 5 kmh buffer. And the people will happily take their medicine and agree that it's a good thing the government is taking the road toll seriously.

It's called social engineering and it seems our new masters are as good at it as the last lot - maybe they took lessons?

[Kickaha]

Very true. Total waste of time if not done right. Did anyone count the volume of traffic?... No! of course not

Is it possible to get those figures along with fuel sales compared to same period last year?

[shrub]

Is it possible to get those figures along with fuel sales compared to same period last year?

Unlikely, but I might see what I can find through the university. Hopefully over the next couple of weeks I'm going to dig around and see what I can find on relationships between speed limit changes overseas and road crash rates. I understand that in the US when they lifted the double nickel speed limit the open road fatality rate dropped in many of tje states where they lifted the speed and increased or stayed the same where they left it at 55mph, and in Northern Territories the fatality rate on the open road rose when they imposed speed limits. But as I keep saying, correlation doesn't necessarily mean cause.

I have always maintained that urban speed limits are about right and need policing, but that the real problem lies in the low skill level of a high percentage of drivers; something that is evidenced by people tailgating, driving while doing something else, cutting corners, poor overtaking etc, and Our Masters have told the cops to police speed at the expense of anything else because it's easy.

[MSTRS]

Only one fatal on the weekend so far looks like the new speed tolerance policy is working :whistle:

So far.
And (say) next w/e when we are back to normal, 15 are killed...the pricks will be able to say "See, the 10kph tolerance kills people"
With faces made of Teflon, the egg just will not stick.

[Scuba_Steve]

the guy who is mindlessly driving his Corolla around town at speeds reaching (shock, horror!) 60 kmh, and if he'd been doing 50 he'd have been fine, but he wasn't...

God that add pisses me off, nothing about this add is accurate or correct, they make NO mention of the illegally & stupidly car parked on the corner nor the fact he steps out in front of this guy, nor do they mention that by going 50km/h the whole way he would have potentially hit either the cyclist (as he would have now been in the way) or the guy getting out of his car (as he would now be in the middle of the road). Then even the physics is wrong in respect to the cash, firstly curbs aren't easy to get up especially when sliding sideways, but then they take him straight across in the "60km/h" scene, whereas he was not only sliding sideways but also backwards & his trajectory would have meant the front of his bonnet hit the pole NOT him & thus by going 60km/h (as he did) he saved the lives of every other person in the add & himself. But then I guess it just all comes down to (as someone else likes to say) "never let facts get in the way of a good rant" (or propaganda add as the case is)

[scumdog]

God that add pisses me off, nothing about this add is accurate or correct, they make NO mention of the illegally & stupidly car parked on the corner nor the fact he steps out in front of this guy, nor do they mention that by going 50km/h the whole way he would have potentially hit either the cyclist (as he would have now been in the way) or the guy getting out of his car (as he would now be in the middle of the road). Then even the physics is wrong in respect to the cash, firstly curbs aren't easy to get up especially when sliding sideways, but then they take him straight across in the "60km/h" scene, whereas he was not only sliding sideways but also backwards & his trajectory would have meant the front of his bonnet hit the pole NOT him & thus by going 60km/h (as he did) he saved the lives of every other person in the add & himself. But then I guess it just all comes down to (as someone else likes to say) "never let facts get in the way of a good rant" (or propaganda add as the case is)

Hey, he was just driving in the manner of a lot of bozos out there, to them it's 'normal' - they're (in their mind) a 'good driver'.

[shrub]

Hey, he was just driving in the manner of a lot of bozos out there, to them it's 'normal' - they're (in their mind) a 'good driver'.

Precisely - he tailgates, he cuts corners and he isn't paying any attention to what he's doing, and when he needed to stop he slammed on his brakes and swerved, but the Propaganda Ministry don't mention any of those (the causes of the crash), instead focussing on how incredibly dangerous breaking the speed limit is, whereas if you stick to the speed limit you can drive like a retard and you'll be fine.

[MSTRS]

Precisely - he tailgates, he cuts corners and he isn't paying any attention to what he's doing, and when he needed to stop he slammed on his brakes and swerved, but the Propaganda Ministry don't mention any of those (the causes of the crash), instead focussing on how incredibly dangerous breaking the speed limit is, whereas if you stick to the speed limit you can drive like a retard and you'll be fine.

You've hit the nail on the head.
The subliminal messages is where it's at. And none of them are condusive to 'good' driving. Is it any wonder that the standard is so poor, with the constant 're-inforcing' that ads like that give?

[shrub]

You've hit the nail on the head.
The subliminal messages is where it's at. And none of them are condusive to 'good' driving. Is it any wonder that the standard is so poor, with the constant 're-inforcing' that ads like that give?

We are told that obeying the speed limit = good driving which means the police don't have to anything more than police speeding and run a few booze buses to do their bit for road safety and Johnny Commodore and Mary Pajero don't need to actually know how to drive, as long as they're not speeding that's all they need to worry about.

[scumdog]

You've hit the nail on the head.
The subliminal messages is where it's at. And none of them are condusive to 'good' driving. Is it any wonder that the standard is so poor, with the constant 're-inforcing' that ads like that give?

If they can't keep their eye on their speedo there's a good chance they can't keep an eye on anything else they do on the road..or be aware of it. "Bad driver? not me!!"

[MSTRS]

If they can't keep their eye on their speedo there's a good chance they can't keep an eye on anything else they do on the road..or be aware of it. "Bad driver? not me!!"

That ad shows a driver basically doing everything wrong. But speed is the only issue that is highligted. Ergo, speed is bad + everything else is fine.

A good driver (or rider) will be using the clues all around, including the occasional glance at the speedo, to travel at a safe, legal speed, whilst splitting their concentration on what is happening in front, to the side and to the rear. Allocating priority to where they'll be in 2/3 seconds including what else might be there too (but isn't, yet), then further out in diminishing importance.
In other words, being aware and ready to react if necessary, yet all at a speed which will not prove to be detrimental.

[scumdog]

That ad shows a driver basically doing everything wrong. But speed is the only issue that is highligted. Ergo, speed is bad + everything else is fine.

You would overwhelm their mind if anything more than one driving error was pointed out to them.

And a radar reading doesn't perpetrate a discussion "I didn't cut that corner" I DID stop at the stop sign" "I WAS wearing my seatbelt" yadda yadda..

Maybe if speed was not an issue the other problems would be looked at a bit harder?

If it was ONLY money it would make more sense to dish out $150 tickets for not stopping at a stop sign vs $80 for 57kph.

[MSTRS]

You would overwhelm their mind if anything more than one driving error was pointed out to them.



So why include them in such an ad. It grinds my gears to see stupidity being blamed on speed.

Besides, such mindless focus on one issue, whilst showing a heap of others, has trained their minds to be overwhelmed when presented with multiplicities of driving knobbishness...

"He only crashed because he was going 10kph too fast. Everything else must have been fine, otherwise they would have said."

[flyingcrocodile46]

I like it when a thread contains comments from people who are intelligent enough to see and comment on the validity (or otherwise) of the issues. Good shit. Much better than the average KB posts.

[shrub]

So why include them in such an ad. It grinds my gears to see stupidity being blamed on speed.

Besides, such mindless focus on one issue, whilst showing a heap of others, has trained their minds to be overwhelmed when presented with multiplicities of driving knobbishness...

"He only crashed because he was going 10kph too fast. Everything else must have been fine, otherwise they would have said."

Speed is easy to measure wheras bad driving is extremely hard. If I do 105 kmh there is a calibrated radar that shows how fast i was going and can be presented in a court of law to prove my naughtiness, wheres driving badly is very subjective and is entirely dependent on the interpretation of the officer concerned, and in a court of law will be relatively defendable if I have a good lawyer. So we're stuck with road policing that focusses on speed at the expense of almost anything else, and that isn't going to change because the Propaganda Ministry have done a sterling job with their advertisements, and John and Mary Citizen are now convinced that speed and alcohol are the only real problems on the roads (apart from risky intersections, but that's just a gamble).

[Scuba_Steve]

yea bad driving is hard to measure especially when age comes into it by being old you are automatically a good driver is seems & therefore don't get charged, its almost like being part of the P.I.G. gang
"Police say a couple, aged 100 and 99, are unlikely to face charges after driving the wrong way along State Highway 1 through Wellington's Ngauranga Gorge on Sunday, because of their age.
Amazingly the duo managed to dodge oncoming southbound traffic for about two kilometres before colliding with another car about 9pm." 2008 article

[Kickaha]

I see it is being claimed as a success


Road policing national manager, Superintendent Paula Rose said yesterday that the low road toll was pleasing but not surprising since police had introduced a "no excuses" policy towards all drivers breaking the speed limit this weekend. All drivers caught travelling more than 4kmh over the posted permanent speed limit were to be ticketed.


With less than 12 hours remaining in the Queen's Birthday Holiday weekend and just one recorded road death so far -- the lowest toll in more than 50 years -- police are trumpeting their zero tolerance approach to speeding as a factor.

http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/latest/7361409/holiday-weekend-road-toll-lowest-since-1956/
http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/mp/7359586/queens-birthday-road-toll-on-course-for-54-year-low/

[MSTRS]

I see it is being claimed as a success


We weren't expecting that...