We're watching you, Mr Smith. Protest 27th June 2010

[BRONZ]

We're not happy. You're gouging money from bikers. Where's it going ?

Just what are we getting for our massively increased levies?

We've been told that a bunch of grumpy bikers are planning to turn out to demand some answers : to remind Mr Smith that we're not happy. And that we're watching him.

And to show him exactly what he can do with his A.C.C.

When ? Sunday 27th June.

Where . Eastern Viaduct. (http://www.viaduct.co.nz/files/Parking%20Map_7.pdf)

Slight change to location. Queens wharf down at the viaduct, not the Eastern carpark itself. They're right next to each other, same map. Follow the directions of the marshals

And some extra grumpy people may ride on to other places afterward. Not that we know anything about that. :innocent:. (less than 20km, easy riding, and very legal., No speed limits will be brioken. Quite the reverse. )

Be aware also that we may probably be breaking some rules of some sort.. This meeting may not be totally respectfull. Or polite. So anyone that has major issues with keeping squeaky clean and rule compliant may want to flag this one.

Some folk may want tp wear a mask. or balaclava. Or skull mask . We're encouraging masks and balaclavas. After all, it'll probably be cold. :whistle:

Probably be wet too. So if you're a wimp, you probably want to flag this one.

Otherwise, if you're not afraid of getting wet, and don't like bending over and taking it (there's a hint there for you) , be there. Disrespectfully, and noisily.

Central Auckland. Eastern Viaduct . 27th June 11am.

Anyone that can lead a group from the outskirts, (West gate, Autobahn, Dairy Flat ? ,) please post up , so groups can get organised.

[MSTRS]

I hate to admit it, but there are times when Orks is just a bit far away...esp when I have to be there the following w/e
Best of luck boys and girls.

[slofox]

W
Central Auckland. Somewhere. 27th June 11pm.

Why's it in the middle of the night?

[madbikeboy]

I for one certainly won't be there. I'll be hanging with SloFox (he's my alibi for that night). Now, where did I leave my balaclava?

[Eyegasm]

Why's it in the middle of the night?

Because they are to scared to create to much disturbance to the public?

Or it's outside someones house?

Just my guess

[BRONZ]

Fixed. Always get that wrong. Like East West. Why must they complicate things.

[CookMySock]

Fixed. Always get that wrong. Like East West. Why must they complicate things.Why not just write it 2300hrs and there will be no confusion. :lol:

Steve

[Ixion]

Bumpity for.bumpification

[Squiggles]

Bump? </10chars>

[RiderInBlack]

Am interested in coming along, but am not interested in needing ta cover my face. Will it be that "Cold" that face cover would be advisable:shifty:? With the BIKEIO, I knew what action I was backing, & was pleased with how is was run. Am ready for more serious action, but would like to know a bit more about it before joining in, OK? The BRONZ newsletter that I got via e-mail today didn't really let me know what I need ta know before joining in. Please Text 027 4534020 or PM me with the needed advise.

[MadDuck]

Can't tell you exactly where just yet.


So anyone that has major issues with keeping squeaky clean and rule compliant may want to flag this one.


Some folk may want tp wear a mask. or balaclava. Or skull mask . We're encouraging masks and balaclavas..


Probably be wet too. So if you're a wimp, you probably want to flag this one.

So you want people to turn up to an unknown location wearing balaclavas? I guess I will avoid this one thanks BRONZ.

[RiderInBlack]

So you want people to turn up to an unknown location wearing balaclavas? I guess I will avoid this one thanks BRONZ.It kind of reads that way. I hope not. If I'm going ta protest, I don't want ta be sulking about having ta hide me face. I would want them ta know I am coming and what for. If I believe in the action, then I would be happy to be detained for minor stuff. I wouldn't be hiding my identity. BUT, and it is a big BUT, I would need ta know exactly what I was put myself up for, and what the risks are.

[GOONR]

So you want people to turn up to an unknown location wearing balaclavas? I guess I will avoid this one thanks BRONZ.

Sounds like a raid on Kelly Tarltons.

[Reckless]

Sounds like a raid on Kelly Tarltons.

Something fishy going on here!!

[Mom]

It kind of reads that way. I hope not. If I'm going ta protest, I don't want ta be sulking about having ta hide me face. I would want them ta know I am coming and what for. If I believe in the action, then I would be happy to be detained for minor stuff. I wouldn't be hiding my identity. BUT, and it is a big BUT, I would need ta know exactly what I was put myself up for, and what the risks are.

I am with you on this one. My face and name is fairly well known in the protest against ACC levy hikes and changes. I dont have a problem with that, I also stand for what I believe in. Cloak and dagger is not my style, more of a dark glasses and pocket knife approach for this gal. We can organise some fairly good chaos legally to make our point I would have thought.

[Squiggles]

So you want people to turn up to an unknown location wearing balaclavas? I guess I will avoid this one thanks BRONZ.

Im thinking haloween masquerade

[Fatt Max]

Sounds like a raid on Kelly Tarltons.

Sick to the gills with all this secret squirrel stuff.

Whats the deal here......???

[bogan]

Sick to the gills with all this secret squirrel stuff.

Whats the deal here......???

agreed, some of us are considering trips from quite far away, and want to know whats actually happening. Whats wrong with a slow ride through main streets or something? going all secretive will get you fuck all bikes.

[Fatt Max]

agreed, some of us are considering trips from quite far away, and want to know whats actually happening. Whats wrong with a slow ride through main streets or something? going all secretive will get you fuck all bikes.

I know....did you get the 'gills' joke though....?

Crap, eh

[Katman]

I don't know whether BRONZ see this whole thing as a joke or not but they would be well advised to note that there's many motorcyclists that are fast losing all confidence in them.

[Murray]

Who is BRONZ??? He's made 6 posts on Kiwibiker and wants us to all go on a crusade with him.

Where do Ixion or some of the more reputable kiwibiker protest leaders sit on this.

Do mom, maha, caseye, fatt max, stoney and others know anything about this???

Maybe all will be revealed closer to the time???

[GOONR]

I know....did you get the 'gills' joke though....?

Crap, eh

Cool avatar, I want it ya basturd!

[GOONR]

I don't know whether BRONZ see this whole thing as a joke or not but they would be well advised to note that there's many motorcyclists that are fast losing all confidence in them.

I agree Katman,

from the BRONZ website,

----------------
THE AIMS OF BRONZ ARE:

To promote road safety through road user education.
Education rather than legislation saves lives.
To protect and promote the rights of the motorcyclist to decide his/her own future as a road user.
Let those who ride decide.
To promote and protect the general welfare of the motorcycling public.

----------------

I don't see how sneaking around in balaclavas at unknown locations is going to raise our profile and protect our rights as motorcyclist's.

[Squiggles]

So you want people to turn up to an unknown location wearing balaclavas? I guess I will avoid this one thanks BRONZ.


Something fishy going on here!!


I am with you on this one. My face and name is fairly well known in the protest against ACC levy hikes and changes. I dont have a problem with that, I also stand for what I believe in. Cloak and dagger is not my style, more of a dark glasses and pocket knife approach for this gal. We can organise some fairly good chaos legally to make our point I would have thought.


I don't see how sneaking around in balaclavas at unknown locations is going to raise our profile and protect our rights as motorcyclist's.

Unknown locations simply mean unconfirmed (in my experiences). Sneaking? When was the last time loud bikes were remotely sneaky?


BRONZ Meeting

The next BRONZ meeting will take place on Wednesday June 16th at 7.30pm at Danish House, 6 Rockridge Ave, Penrose. Meetings take place once a month, on the third Wednesday of the month. We would love to see some new faces so if you wish to contribute please come along.

Minutes:
The minutes from the last BRONZ meeting in May are attached.



I don't know whether BRONZ see this whole thing as a joke or not but they would be well advised to note that there's many motorcyclists that are fast losing all confidence in them.

So you keep saying :mellow:


BRONZ AGM

The 2010 BRONZ AGM will be held on Wednesday 21 July 2010.

Venue: The Danish House
Address: 6 Rockridge Road, (Off O'Rorke Road) Penrose, Auckland
Date: Wednesday 21 July 2010
Time: 7-30pm
Attached is a nomination form for nominating office bearers and committee members for the 2010/11 year. Everyone is welcome to come along and be a part of the AGM and join us for supper as this is your chance to meet other members and have an input into how YOUR organisation is run.

It would be great to have more members come along and see what we do. We really appreciate support and input from our members.

[GOONR]

Unknown locations simply mean unconfirmed (in my experiences). Sneaking? When was the last time loud bikes were remotely sneaky?


Where . Central Auckland. Can't tell you exactly where just yet. because if we do, we might be able to have it there. And we're having it there, permissions or not.

We'll update you with exact location , and game plan nearer the day. Sufficiently nearer that it's too late for TPTB to stop it.

Sorry, but that sounds like a confirmed location and people would be sneaking in.

[Mom]

Unknown locations simply mean unconfirmed (in my experiences). Sneaking? When was the last time loud bikes were remotely sneaky?

Perhaps this one has not been sold as well as it could have been?

I have found that a large bunch of bikes is anything but quiet :gob: they can take up a huge amount of space if parked correctly :innocent: and cause a bit of confusion for the constabulary when they group in large numbers on the motorways despite plod being made aware they would be there :D

[Fatt Max]

As someone said earlier, this could be seen by those we are trying to influence as a break in bikers solidarity. None of us want that cos it simply does not help.

I have to agree with Mom that whatever is being planned, it is being sold in a way that is almost....dare I say it....elite-ist (scuse spelling please). I joined BRONZ back in March because I felt there was a good angle in getting behind them. Trouble is, I have not heard anything from them as a member, only what has been posted here. I am a bit pissed off that there is the possibility of division especially after the AAG got the blood pumping again a couple of months ago.

In my humble and overweight opinion, can BRONZ please step on up, give both members and subscribers to this site (who are all bikers by the way.....apart from me at the minute cos my hand hurts....and I dont have a bike till next week....and my mum dressed me funny...) some true definition and purpose to what is happening here.

Bottom line is, if we divide we leave ourselves wide open for Smiffy and his cronies to spin the old 'see, the bikers cant even agree what was all the noise for' scenario.

Mom's comment re taking up a lot of space, well, I'm fecking good at that. No matter where you are on a ride, I'll be beside ya.....

As I said, my humble opinion

[Ixion]

Unconfirmed just mean unconfirmed. BRONZ are seeking official permission for three sites. Hopefully one will be definite by tomorrow night. One is bike accessible but not trike/car (bollardy things).

If we don't get permission they'll fall back to one that doesn't need it or just do it anyway.

Them as is sensitively concerned about not causing any disruption or problems, need not come. But many have pointed out that an apologetic "excuse me please' approach hasn't done an awful lot so far.

[Katman]

But many have pointed out that an apologetic "excuse me please' approach hasn't done an awful lot so far.

What's wrong with trying the "we can see where you're coming from and we're determined to clean up our own back yard" approach?

A little bit of humility could go a long way.

[MadDuck]

Them as is sensitively concerned about not causing any disruption or problems, need not come.

Ok not the first time you have stated this (ok BRONZ has stated this). Best of luck for the day......

[Ixion]

Perhaps this one has not been sold as well as it could have been?

I have found that a large bunch of bikes is anything but quiet :gob: they can take up a huge amount of space if parked correctly :innocent: and cause a bit of confusion for the constabulary when they group in large numbers on the motorways despite plod being made aware they would be there :D

With respect, I think it is now only preaching to the converted. At the last protest, there were 135 off bikes. Who listened to some speeches (which we al agree with).And then rode up Queen St. Which was very nice for those who did it.

But, how much impact did that have on the general public? No media mention at all that I saw, many of those who did see us on Queen St though we were part of the anti-mining protest. I doubt that anyone except a handful of people on Queen St even knew it happened.

Same goes for the much loved "ride slowly on the motorways". Motorways being slow in Auckland is the norm. The only people who will know its a bunch of bikers at the front at the half dozen cars at the front.

Bikers making speeches to bikers about how unfair it is is therapeutic, but it's not going to grab the attention of the 90% of the country who don't actually give a stuff.And if they have any knowledge at all of the issue, think we got our levies reduced , so it's all good now, right?

If bikers want to make the case that ACC is still rotten , we need to put on a spectacle. Something that attracts attention from the general public, not just bikers.

Bikers are famously about love and disrespect. Its time to show the disrespect .

Anyone ever hear what became of the petition ? You know, the one that we all put such effort into. The one with thousands of signatures. That was presented to Parliament by Mr Goff. Ever hear if any of TPTB took any notice of it ? Yep, disappeared without trace. A very polite respectful, way of making our point. But it didn't exactly get a lot of traction.

What DID get traction and attention (and the media still remember it and talk about it ) ? Bikers chanting BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT. And disrespecting a Minister of the Crown.

So , this isn't a protest for those who don't want to do anything other than sign petitions and politely listen to speeches. You're still very welcome. But Mr Smith and his ACC (and maybe others) are going to be disrepected. Legally (except maybe for some parking where shouldn't and making excessive noise type things ) , but not very politely.

If we do get media presence, there may be pictures of people. And some people have jobs where disrespect to authorities isn't allowed. Best not to come , in that case.

Love and disrespect. It's what we do .

[Katman]

Anyone ever hear what became of the petition ? You know, the one that we all put such effort into. The one with thousands of signatures. That was presented to Parliament by Mr Goff. Ever hear if any of TPTB took any notice of it ? Yep, disappeared without trace. A very polite respectful, way of making our point. But it didn't exactly get a lot of traction.



What about this one that you couldn't bother your arse doing anything about?

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/114790-Petition-sheets?highlight=petition

[Ixion]

I'm personally picking that there will be very few Ulysses members there , BTW. Which probably defines the whole issue. Peter McIntosh DEFINITELY will not approve.Growing old disgracefully, but only very quietly and politely , and if granted permission first.

And in a measure I guess maybe we're moving toward defining where NZ motorcycling is.

Peter Fonda, or Peter Mcintosh? The angry young men have grown old, and meek and respectful. The people who were famous for sticking it to the Man have become the Man.

So perhaps that's where NZ motorcycling is heading, polite and respectful, apologising constantly to the car drivers for getting blood on the cars , Mr Katman's vision of the lawn bowls society exchanging their Toyota Corollas for maxi scooters.

We shell see, I guess.

[Katman]

So perhaps that's where NZ motorcycling is heading, polite and respectful,

I would suggest that 'polite and respectful' in the way we present motorcycling, as a whole, to the general public would get us far further than your deluded rebel without a clue approach, you old fool.

[Mom]

You know I attended a BRONZ meeting not long after these increases were first announced and the mandate from the attendees was to peacefully protest, infact I am certain BRONZ came out and said there would be NO illegal or disruptive protests condoned by them. I remember organising protests and getting no support from BRONZ incase we disrupted things. Things have started to heat up again and a small protest was organised recently(sadly clashed with the greenpeace anti mining one) but it happened. There is a fairly tight group of people dedicated to this cause, many of them not happy at all with peaceful protest and more than happy to make a scene. There are plans afoot and reasonably well progressed, but sitting, waiting for an opportunity to be used.

Up until this announcement from BRONZ it had been made clear that no protest ride would be supported by BRONZ at this event so one was not organised. This protest action is a BRONZ baby, no doubt I will be there in support, but wont be organising a ride associated with the protest.

[Toaster]

I would suggest that 'polite and respectful' in the way we present motorcycling, as a whole, to the general public would get us far further than your deluded rebel without a clue approach, you old fool.

Correct. You can't gain any empathy from the public or government by disorderly or incitive behaviour. They will distance themselves very quickly. Covering faces is simply intimidatory and cowardly. Do it by the book and lobby properly. Breaking the law will only hurt motorcycling's already tenuous reputation and land people in Court.... costing them much and gaining nothing but ill will.

[Ocean1]

I am certain BRONZ came out and said there would be NO illegal or disruptive protests condoned by them.

I'd just like to say that this was the reason I didn't support the protests at the time. S'not true though, I was outa town.

However, it is true that adding an hour or two to the average punter's commute a few times, or semi-regularly monopolising the CBD parking would do way more to advance the cause than sulking in the town square and muttering quietly.

In this the French've got it right. Just this, but Damn right.

[Ocean1]

Do it by the book and lobby properly.

Correct. If by lobbying properly you mean causing the most people the most inconvienience without breaking the law.

Nobody notices considerate dissent, dude, reply to dodgy legislation with a message of simple truth at maximum volume.

[Ixion]

You know I attended a BRONZ meeting not long after these increases were first announced and the mandate from the attendees was to peacefully protest, in fact I am certain BRONZ came out and said there would be NO illegal or disruptive protests condoned by them. I remember organising protests and getting no support from BRONZ in case we disrupted things. Things have started to heat up again and a small protest was organised recently(sadly clashed with the greenpeace anti mining one) but it happened. There is a fairly tight group of people dedicated to this cause, many of them not happy at all with peaceful protest and more than happy to make a scene. There are plans afoot and reasonably well progressed, but sitting, waiting for an opportunity to be used.

Up until this announcement from BRONZ it had been made clear that no protest ride would be supported by BRONZ at this event so one was not organised. This protest action is a BRONZ baby, no doubt I will be there in support, but wont be organising a ride associated with the protest.

Well, the resolution of that meeting certainly was that BRONZ did not support illegal activity. And that they would attempt to avoid disruption insofar as it could be avoided , whilst recognising that some disruption is unavoidable in protest activities.

Now, as to illegal - technically, riding without a rego label displayed (even if it's in your wallet), is illegal . So anyone who goes along with current rego is being illegal. But, on the assumption that illegal here really means Crimes Act stuff, assault, arson etc, I personally won't be down for that, if only because I don't think $517 is worth it.

Disruption, in fact, is unlikely to be much of an issue on a Sunday morning, we'd need 1000 bikes to do anything significant

But, as for peaceful and respectful, that may be another matter. Of course, it's always up to the people who attend. Nobody can make them do anything, after all.

It's not really quite correct that BRONZ didn't support any of your protests - in fact I think they endorsed all of them , put details in their newsletters, promoted them to the media.

But , life moves on. A good many riders have articulated that they feel it's time we all moved on from the ACC issue and let it rest

Certainly Joe Q Public, that deep and incisive thinker, believes that we have moved on. He thinks that it's all over, that we got our levies reduced and we're all happy little sand boys and sand girls.

So, if the motorcycle community DO still want to push the issue, we need to make Joe aware that we're not happy , and it's not all done and dusted. Weall agree it stinks. That argument is long since won, so we don't need to educate bikers (except Mr Katman). We do need to educate Joe. To do that , we need media coverage.

Sorry, but that's the way the world works. The only way we can get our case and our position in front of any significant percentage of the public is through the media. A protest that doesn't get coverage only showcases our argument to at most a few dozen people - probably not even that. Who like as not have no idea what we're on about anyway.

To get media buy in , we must provide one essential element. Whatever it is has to be newsworthy. Newsworthy by media standards, not ours. And by those standards, middle aged ladies and gentlemen making polite and respectful speeches to each other about how unfair it is , before trundling off for a nice latte, just doesn't count as newsworthy. Nothing personal, and I enjoyed the rides, but they aren't what makes Joe sit up in front of the tele and go "WTF - woz all THAT about". They're not what makes reporters say "Hold the front page..."

What may be newsworthy, is a bunch of angry looking bikers. Looking all mean and sinister and DETERMINED. And behaving disrespectfully. Doing the sort of thing we did in front of Parliament, in fact. Oddly , the iconic feature of BIKEOI!, the "Bullshit, bullshit" chant, wasn't anything BRONZ planned . It was completely spontaneous. But, it was highly newsworthy, it became the defining message of BIKEOI!. If we want media attention we need to replay that angry aggressive note. To remind the press, and Joe, that bikers are, well, BIKERS. And maybe not people it's wise to mess with. Only, we won't have 7000 bikers there to chant. So those that do , will have to make up for lack of numbers by presence. Of course, I don't make the call. The media may think that angry bikers in black leather is also boring. But, less probable.

I mentioned that some riders feel it's time to drop the ACC issue and move on. Others , however, have intimated that they think that a more aggressive approach is called for (noting that aggression doesn't need to mean people getting locked up).

I'm thinking that the turnout on the 27th will help define where the community stands (because remember, this isn't about BRONZ, or any of us - it's about all the bikers in the land). drop it and move on, or escalate. (Not expecting too many , regardless, given that it'll probably be pissing down).

The rides thing - that's a perennial debate. There are those in BRONZ (as well as elsewhere) who feel that a ride, in the publicity spotlight, is too risky . On account of someone falling off and going dead. We've been lucky so far, but, truth be told, we DO fall off our bikes at an alarming rate (note the tactful 'we' there). I wish y'all didn't do that. Makes it really hard to argue about ACC when they can point to such a long list of riders who have buggered themselves (usually at great expense). It's always down to the person holding the handlebars, y'know. And doing it on a protest ride would be a very bad look. So, decision was , no planned rides. 'Course , if people want to ride in, or go somewhere afterwards, well, that another matter. Unofficial, like. I will be , m'self.

[Ixion]

Correct. You can't gain any empathy from the public or government by disorderly or incitive behaviour. They will distance themselves very quickly. Covering faces is simply intimidatory and cowardly. Do it by the book and lobby properly. Breaking the law will only hurt motorcycling's already tenuous reputation and land people in Court.... costing them much and gaining nothing but ill will.

Hm. Lobbying. That's like the 2500 submissions that were made to ACC? Every one of which was completely ignored? Lobbying only works for corporates.

[Dare]

Hm. Lobbying. That's like the 2500 submissions that were made to ACC? Every one of which was completely ignored? Lobbying only works for corporates.

We need a bigger mouse trap.

[MadDuck]

What may be newsworthy, is a bunch of angry looking bikers. Looking all mean and sinister and DETERMINED. And behaving disrespectfully. .

So looking like the run ups to "The Gangs of Oz" that showed last night is the way you want to appear to the general public? I guess you will be inviting the local gangs after all they need regos for their bikes.

[Pixie]

So you want people to turn up to an unknown location wearing balaclavas? I guess I will avoid this one thanks BRONZ.

..............210731:banana::banana:

[Pixie]

Correct. You can't gain any empathy from the public or government by disorderly or incitive behaviour. They will distance themselves very quickly. Covering faces is simply intimidatory and cowardly. Do it by the book and lobby properly. Breaking the law will only hurt motorcycling's already tenuous reputation and land people in Court.... costing them much and gaining nothing but ill will.

Napoleon described the English as "a nation of shopkeepers" -it's a pity NZ didn't get more of a Gallic or Latin heritage.

[mashman]

People have accidents, get over it... do motorcyclists have a higher risk profile... imho, no (50% of accidents happen at home). Our risk profile is "perceived" to be high by those who wish to make us pay for OUR mistakes... (Whiners)But the figures all say motocycling costs lots... get over it, fuck what the figures say, that's not the founding principles of ACC. This is for everyone... we're just trying to highlight it... aaaaaand unfortunately we suck at it because we don't have "enough" power to make a difference... We need to be putting ourselves into a position of power... i'll be happy with a little mischief for a change if it has a chance of getting the message across to the bleaters...

"Otago University has forecast that in any given year farm workers will lose control of quad bikes on approximately 12,645 occasions, resulting in about 1400 injuries. Not all of these will be registered as workplace injury claims with ACC."

HOW MANY OF THESE 1400 INJURIES ARE NOT REGISTERED AS WORK CLAIMS AND WHY NOT... but by asking questions like this we're pushing the Woodhouse principles aside, albeit for good reasons, fact finding... the mere fact that you go looking for trends (and not under a safety umbrella) proves that the "principle" we hold dear, does not matter to those who make policy... there's no other reason to get stats from ACC other than to apportion financial blame... It needs to end.

http://www.3news.co.nz/ACC-Farmer-dies-every-28-days/tabid/209/articleID/161105/Default.aspx

[BRONZ]

11 AM (ie morning), 27th June 2010.

At Eastern Viaduct , Queens Wharf (http://www.viaduct.co.nz/files/Parking%20Map_7.pdf). look for the yellow trailer.

Slight change to location. Queens wharf down at the viaduct, not the Eastern carpark itself. They're right next to each other, same map. Follow the directions of the marshals

[Bodir]

Your advertising is great guys :brick: How about you share some clear points on what you are planning?

As it stands, I for one think "whatever" and will show up if I have nothing else going on by then. Or to translate that: you have not made me think that I need to go there. The current picture in my mind is of the usual gatherings of radicals with masks and stones and sticks going to trash something. I am pretty sure that is not the case but how can I be certain that this is not what you planned. Civil disobedience is one thing - serious crime is another. Remember the average biker is a real person in the real world with family etc. They need to justify what they are going to do on Sunday. Throw them a bone for [insert whatever you like here] sake to give them a chance to decide to atttend.

[Reckless]

I'll be there if I can borrow or buy a bike in between, I don't care what's planned I'm in even if I've gotta turn up on my boys little 2fidy again!
If I really needed to know I'd have turned up at the meeting last night (which I completely forgot about).
I doubt your gonna burn anyone at the stake and anything else is fine for the cause!
I'm also confused at why everyone wants a public list of the plans??
Why don't you use the PM function? Les only has to type it once then copy and paste to to whoever inquires, if he wants you to know?
Even if nothing untoward is happening the suspense alone will tempt the media, so I say keep it under your hat Les and others who are to old/scared to turn up and take a risk don't bother! Where's your sense of adventure?
Hopefully there will be more than a poultry few and everyone will get off their butts and show up!
Where's the party after mate lets make a night of it!!

EDIT: And the last thing thats needed if the media does come is for 5 bikes to turn up!! SO be there or be square!!

[Ixion]

This mans on to it.

[Maha]

EDIT: And the last thing thats needed if the media does come is for 5 bikes to turn up!! SO be there or be square!!

If it turns out that there is a small-medium turn out and the media does turn up, and decide to run with it, it could be detrimental to the cause. In saying that, our Xmas Orange/Coal event had a resonable turn out, but by the time the TV got there, down to about ten bikes, they covered it and it came across really well on the News.
Our last event (the day of the Minning March) we did not want media coverage at all on the day.
It was more of a 'lets see how many have lost interest' thing, we wanted to gauge the level of 'still pissed off bikers'. We (the organisers) were pretty stoked at the turn out, a tad over 100 bikes, but it was probably double the amount of what we were actually expecting if we are to be honest.

[Ender EnZed]

Our last event (the day of the Minning March) we did not want media coverage at all on the day

Why not?

10ch

[Maha]

Why not?

10ch

I explained that in my post, re-read it.

[RiderInBlack]

Why don't you use the PM function? Les only has to type it once then copy and paste to to whoever inquires, if he wants you to know?
EDIT: And the last thing thats needed if the media does come is for 5 bikes to turn up!! SO be there or be square!!Have asked for that here:

Am interested in coming along, but am not interested in needing ta cover my face. Will it be that "Cold" that face cover would be advisable:shifty:? With the BIKEOI, I knew what action I was backing, & was pleased with how is was run. Am ready for more serious action, but would like to know a bit more about it before joining in, OK? The BRONZ newsletter that I got via e-mail today didn't really let me know what I need ta know before joining in. Please Text 027 4534020 or PM me with the needed advise. But I'm yet ta get a reply on that. How am I going ta convince other Norf Riders ta come down and support this if I don't know enough myself. Living in Whangarei & work hard as Nurse means that getting to the BRONZ meeting in Dorkland is a bit difficult ta say the lest. So as a Member of BRONZ, I'm totally reliant on what information they E-mail me. In this case, it has be Jack-shit. If ya trying ta rally the Troops, ya need ta improve ya communication & try ta be motivating OK.

[Mom]

Have asked for that here:
But I'm yet ta get a reply on that. How am I going ta convince other Norf Riders ta come down and support this if I don't know enough myself. Living in Whangarei & work hard as Nurse means that getting to the BRONZ meeting in Dorkland is a bit difficult ta say the lest. So as a Member of BRONZ, I'm totally reliant on what information they E-mail me. In this case, it has be Jack-shit. If ya trying ta rally the Troops, ya need ta improve ya communication & try ta be motivating OK.

I got an email from BRONZ telling me that there was a protest on Sunday. It is a low key announcement

ACC - We're Watching You

Featuring a special guest from the beehive who you've all been longing to meet...

We're still not happy with ACC, come along to this event to make some noise and find out why!

* When: 27th June, 11am (This is the last weekend before the new levies come into play)
* Where: Viaduct Harbour
* Why: We are still not happy with ACC and have a message for the minister.

Flick me your email addy if you have not received the newsletter and I will make sure you are included on future mailouts. There is no mention here of face masks etc, so I think that was an off the cuff post somehow. I am not over the protests by a long chalk.

I will NOT cover my face to protest, I am happy to stand up and be counted, infact I have my next speech well underway, did you know one of the reasons that ACC "lost" money was because they own a shopping mall with empty shops. Yes I have read their financials :yawn:

I think anyone that is anti the changes should attend this protest. I may not be able to attend my mother is in hospital and is quite poorly, I had been with her in Thames all day Wednesday so could not attend the BRONZ meeting either.

I guess this is a gather and listen and or make a shed load of noise type of protest, attend if you can, regardless if you support BRONZ or not. This is about saying no to the changes being made, and to get a fair go as bikers in the changes.

[RiderInBlack]

ACC - We're Watching You

Featuring a special guest from the beehive who you've all been longing to meet...

We're still not happy with ACC, come along to this event to make some noise and find out why!

* When: 27th June, 11am (This is the last weekend before the new levies come into play)
* Where: Viaduct Harbour
* Why: We are still not happy with ACC and have a message for the minister.Got that flier, but there was so little details that I come on ta here to see if anyone else knew any more and if any join up points had been organised only ta read this:

We're not happy. You're gouging money from bikers. Where's it going ?


Just what are we getting for our massively increased levies?

We've been told that a bunch of grumpy bikers are planning to turn out to demand some answers : to remind Mr Smith that we're not happy. And that we're watching him.

And to show him exactly what he can do with his A.C.C.

When ? Sunday 27th June.

Where . Central Auckland. Can't tell you exactly where just yet. because if we do, we might be able to have it there. And we're having it there, permissions or not. :whistle:

We'll update you with exact location , and game plan nearer the day. Sufficiently nearer that it's too late for TPTB to stop it.

And some extra grumpy people may ride on to other places afterward. Not that we know anything about that. :innocent:. (less than 20km, easy riding, and very legal., No speed limits will be brioken. Quite the reverse. )

Be aware that getting into the location may be difficult for trikes or sidecars . Anyone planning on bringing one, PM me.

Be aware also that we may probably be breaking some rules of some sort.. This meeting may not be totally respectfull. Or polite. So anyone that has major issues with keeping squeaky clean and rule compliant may want to flag this one.

Some folk may want tp wear a mask. or balaclava. Or skull mask . We're encouraging masks and balaclavas. After all, it'll probably be cold. :whistle:

Probably be wet too. So if you're a wimp, you probably want to flag this one.

Otherwise, if you're not afraid of getting wet, and don't like bending over and taking it (there's a hint there for you) , be there. Disrespectfully, and noisily.

Central Auckland. Somewhere. 27th June 11am.

Anyone that can lead a group from the outskirts, (West gate, Autobahn, Dairy Flat ? ,) please post up , so groups can get organised.

Which really didn't come accross well at all (especially the bits I have high lighted in red). It sounded like there might be a real need ta hide my Identity & could possibly risk prosecution. I am glad that more has been posted later to clarify things a little, because (as I have posted before) IF I am joining a protest, I like ta know what I am to expect when a get there.

[Ixion]

What's going to happen? I dunno. It's a BRONZ gig, not an Ixion or KB gig. BRONZ doesn't script stuff, they don't tell bikers what to do. Just put out that the gig's going down at time and place. Then when or if bikers turn up, try to find out what they want.

27th, my own guess, is what will happen , is nothing . Zip. Bugger all riders will turn up, we'll call the campaign closed and reconvene to the pub.

My reading ,is that the general mood is that it's time to suck up the levies and move on. Certainly based on KB , I'd say that was the case.

But, we also have some of old school bikers saying to us that they're not happy, and they reckon bikers should fight on, and get more aggressive and confrontational . These are guys from the old days when bikers were a lot tougher than they are now.

I've got to admit, that the "don't make waves" stuff has reached it's use by date. All the submissions have been sent in , and all ignored. All the speechs that could be made have been made, there's nothing new left to say. So, it's either move on, or move up.

Which said, we know that the people who call for a tougher line, all too often don't actually want to be involved themselves. They want someone else to do it.

Weather on the 27th's bound to be shitty. It'll be cold , and wet . Only the hard men will turn out for that, if anyone does . So, we'll see how many are willing to walk the walk (or , ride the ride as the case may be ) .

Far as I'm concerned , won't be anything illegal illegal (ie Crimes Act). Not worth it for $517. If by chance we DO get a decent number of hard, mean sinister looking bikers (pref in black leather) to parade to the media, we've got a little bit of a lampoon set up (probably - if it comes off). Not illegal. Far as I know. Maybe breachs some council bylaw. Definately not respectful. Probably downright vulgar. Maybe disruptive, though I doubt it on Sunday afternoon.

Hopefully calculated to make Mr Smith REALLY angry. That's the one thing he lost his rag over . BIKEOI! wasn't respectful to him. That made him really angry. I know that, because he told me so. If we do get some of the old school, we'll see if we can make him angry again. . Beyond that, it's down to who turns up.

I'm thinking that the end result will be I'll spend the day in the pub. But, I could be wrong

Every rider needs to make his own call . People who are respectful of authority and upset by vulgarity , obscenity and such like, probably won't be happy.

If you aren't comfortable with that sort of scene. In which case, best to stay home, pay the levy, stop complaining and move on. Complaining about things and not being willing to do whatever is needed to remedy them is pointless.

[Katman]

What's going to happen? I dunno. It's a BRONZ gig,

Once again, BRONZ (read Les Mason) fails to see the wood for the trees.

[miloking]

I would suggest that 'polite and respectful' in the way we present motorcycling, as a whole, to the general public would get us far further than your deluded rebel without a clue approach, you old fool.

Nah respectful doesnt get you anywhere....just ask Maoris and their foreshore plight. Once you stat jumping on car roofs and throw stuff on MPs and generaly look "dangerous" ...those meek, sheepish people with start to listen.

[miloking]

11 AM (ie morning), 27th June 2010.

At Eastern Viaduct car park (http://www.viaduct.co.nz/files/Parking%20Map_7.pdf). By the Maritime Museum, look for the yellow trailer.

If hypotheticaly one was to turn up ..what are the chances on being arrested that day? (its just that I gotta be somewhere else later on that night...)

50/50 is good enough for me though :D

[NONONO]

"sinister looking bikers (pref in black leather)" :blink:
"Only the hard men will turn out for that":shutup:
"If you aren't comfortable with that sort of scene.":shit:

We're not going up K Rd are we? It's not THAT type of protest is it?

[miloking]

"sinister looking bikers (pref in black leather)" :blink:
"Only the hard men will turn out for that":shutup:
"If you aren't comfortable with that sort of scene.":shit:

We're not going up K Rd are we? It's not THAT type of protest is it?

You mean this sort of thing, lol... i think this is more navy or police speciality...

[scracha]

Once again, BRONZ (read Les Mason) fails to see the wood for the trees.

Sometimes I'm in total agreement with you Katman. We needed continuous action. We needed to be unified. We needed more protest rides and gatherings. We needed more media coverage. At this late stage, I was hoping every bike would have a Fuck ACC / Nick Smith sticker or simliar. A campaign of civil disobedience where we simply refused to pay the rego fees would have hit them harder and generated far more media and public backing. They simply don't have the resources to chase us all for the money. This is merely a motorcycling poll tax.


We could salvage this.....but I suspect we'll all head down the pub and resign ourselves to registering our bikes for 6 months of the year or riding illegally. My thoughts on BRONZ were well known and I secretly hoped I'd be wrong. The usual Kiwi apathy combined with BRONZ's lack of organisation has meant we've spectacularly lost the ACC fight.

Meeting at Auckland Viaduct.....Nick Smith will probably snigger and just tell us losers to fuck off.
I'll see ya's all there

Epic Fail

[Phreak]

Metservice says the weather next weekend is going to be nice and sunny (I'm hoping so!!!) so if I can get off work I will be there. I'm not afraid to protest in the least.

What happened to the 'biker spirit that got so pissed off at the ACC shafting us...?

[Ixion]

If hypotheticaly one was to turn up ..what are the chances on being arrested that day? (its just that I gotta be somewhere else later on that night...)

50/50 is good enough for me though :D

Zero, I would hope. We don't need martyrs. Of course, if you insist on doing stupid shit ....

Disrespectful. Spectacular. Not illegal.

[Ixion]

"sinister looking bikers (pref in black leather)" :blink:
"Only the hard men will turn out for that":shutup:
"If you aren't comfortable with that sort of scene.":shit:

We're not going up K Rd are we? It's not THAT type of protest is it?

Yes! We welcome all sorts. You can bring those new arseless chaps of yours.

[Ixion]

Sometimes I'm in total agreement with you Katman.

Blah , blah, whinge , whinge.

Epic Fail


So, dude, what are you organising ? Y'know, it's a free country, if you don't like the program , you can start your own. It's quite easy actually, y' just gotta get off y'arse and , like, do it.

BRONZ only managed to roll 7000 bikes into Wellington, but with your consummate organising ability, you'll easily roll 20000.

When do we leave? Keep us posted on progress, won't you.

[Ixion]

Now, with all the handbag fighting that's going on, I've gone and forgotten an important point.

As well as disrespecting Mr Smith (we only does it cos we luvs y' Nick, you believe that don't you ?); and maybe providing some tree trembly spectacle for the press chicks ("Biker Bill's the name, sinister's the game"), we also have a serious question for Mr Smith.

That is , what's happening with the money being collected (forcibly) for his "Motorcycle Safety Fund". As you are aware (or not - nice rock) , as well as your actual ACC Levy, you're paying an EXTRA $30, for the aforesaid "Motorcycle Safety Fund". Administered by Mr Smith and the ACC.

That should amount to around $3 million a year. Every year. That's quite a bit of coin. They've started collecting it, but so far no-one (including Mr Smith) has been forthcoming on what precisely is happening with he money. And the Act doesn't specify.

Biker Bill, cynical coount that he is (and sinister - don't forget the sinister), reckons it's going to either be a slush fund, to fund overseas junkets, or disappear into vague unspecified stuff that doesn't benefit bikers at all.

BRONZ reckons that's biker money. Collected from bikers and should ONLY be spent on stuff that benefits bikers, and bikers only.

So BRONZ is going to be asking for answers, very publicly. And they've one of our own to put forward, which is using (some) of that dosh to provide motorcycle training facilities throughout the country. It's hard for motorcyclists to upskill (either newbies or experienced riders wanting to improve their skills) on the road. And the only venues available, like Hampton Downs cost megabucks. Other options like car parks are dodgy, unsafe and lack facilities like toilets and classrooms.

They reckon $3 million a year, every year, could provide a venue in every major centre, easy .

But that's just one idea. We want input from bikers on other ideas. (Unlike Messrs Scratcha and Katman, BRONZ works on the basis of asking bikers what they want , not ordering them about) .

So , if you are coming (all this is on the basis that I don't get to spend the day in the pub), put your think cap on and come up with some thoughts. BRONZ will have facilities to pass them on.

But , for Lawd's sake, DON'T go hog wild posting them up here. It's a BRONZ gig, not a KB one. Posting them here won't achieve anything. Take them along to the meeting, or email them to BRONZ.

[NONONO]

Yes! We welcome all sorts. You can bring those new arseless chaps of yours.

Arseless Chaps? Thank god for that.

[scracha]

So, dude, what are you organising ? Y'know, it's a free country, if you don't like the program , you can start your own. It's quite easy actually, y' just gotta get off y'arse and , like, do it.

Oh here we go. Well I thought I'd give BRONZ first crack since they're always wittering on about how they represent me. To be honest, it's not my "calling" and I'd rather not do something at all than do it half arsed.



BRONZ only managed to roll 7000 bikes into Wellington, but with your consummate organising ability, you'll easily roll 20000.

Really? That was all BRONZ was it? And I'm sorry, 7000 bikes ...pathetic. $3 grand collected? Ridiculous...less than 50c each. Yes, me, myself and I would easily have rolled 20,000. I'd have sat down with the motorcycle industry and the silly rich fucks at ULYSSES to ensure we were all singing fron the same hymn sheet



Unlike Messrs Scratcha and Katman, BRONZ works on the basis of asking bikers what they want , not ordering them about

Well if you're gonna make this personal :- I don't recall you asking me what I wanted before you rolled over for the television cameras. You can't really pull off the "psycopathic fucked off biker" thing after that performance Les.

You remind me of the silly beardy cunt who used to run MAG (Motorcycle Action Group) in the UK. He caused more damage than good and eventually got the boot for a more professional organisation.

ps. Can ya fix the amounts on your "damn the levies" page as I can assure you, my renewal notice was more than $426.92

pps. You've been told this before but spouting shite like "There is no proven benefit from compulsory driver/rider training, and the instigation of such policies, pending evidence to the contrary, needs to be revisited" on your website does us no favours.

ppps. See you at the "mystery tour" on Sunday the 27th.

[miloking]

Zero, I would hope. We don't need martyrs. Of course, if you insist on doing stupid shit ....

Disrespectful. Spectacular. Not illegal.

Unfortunately disrespectful is sometimes also illegal...if its anything to do with protesting and not conforming to the "system" but never mind.. i will just make sure i leave any weapons or drugs at home then :)

I will be there...

[Ixion]

Unfortunately disrespectful is sometimes also illegal...if its anything to do with protesting and not conforming to the "system"

.


That's true. I've seen cops at protests invoke great ingenuity to find excuses to arrest those who don't conform to the system. The actual legality of otherwise is a very minor point. As some protesters who were arrested the LAST time a Chinese delegation was here found out.

And bikers aren't exactly a conforming lot, on the whole. And as I noted there'll probably be enough unregistered, illegally parked, overly noisy etc etc bikes, if Mr Plod really wants to get stuck in.

However, bikers have a big brownie point credit with the police at present. They were so amazed that BIKEOI! didn't turn into a riot, that they think we're pretty cool .

So I don't think they'll be overly zealous.

[miloking]

However, bikers have a big brownie point credit with the police at present. They were so amazed that BIKEOI! didn't turn into a riot, that they think we're pretty cool .

So I don't think they'll be overly zealous.


Very good to hear that becuase i have CBR on hold and 0 demerits left

...its mostly all before i got my full, No "L" plate displayed 2x, riding 1000cc on restricted 1x and 61km ticket in a cage...one licence to be suspended in no time!

[MadDuck]

BRONZ only managed to roll 7000 bikes into Wellington.

BRONZ did what? Sorry maybe you need to have a reality check.

[miloking]

BRONZ did what? Sorry maybe you need to have a reality check.

Where do you get those? I think i need one done too...

[MadDuck]

Where do you get those? I think i need one done too...

There were a hell of a lot of people involved in organising the Wellington ride not affiliated with BRONZ. This was in time, money, energy and effort. For Les aka Ixion aka BRONZ to try and take credit for it is wrong!

Sorry 7000 wasnt enough for you Ixion. But it looked pretty bloody impressive from where I was standing at Westpac Stadium. BRONZ Auckland has done NOTHING since November and now you expect us to become all confrontational.

[RiderInBlack]

There were a hell of a lot of people involved in organising the Wellington ride not affiliated with BRONZ. This was in time, money, energy and effort. For Les aka Ixion aka BRONZ to try and take credit for it is wrong!

Sorry 7000 wasnt enough for you Ixion. But it looked pretty bloody impressive from where I was standing at Westpac Stadium. BRONZ Auckland has done NOTHING since November and now you expect us to become all confrontational.Aye MD, although I might give BRONZ some credit for lobbying, but they could have worked harder at keeping us motivated. Rolling Protests straight after the Bikeoi should have been made, but no we were advise ta wait. Others have been organising protests since then. Now in the middle of Winter when a Majority of bikers have gone in ta hibernation and have gotten on with their lives, BRONZ decides ta dust it's self off for a protest. Too dam late. Of cause they will be able ta say they have tried, and use the "lack" of interest shown to say that it's not worth fighting for.
I am planning ta be there. I have since it was hinted at 2 months ago. I had booked work off, thinking that they might go for something big in Welly again. I hope that it will be worth it, but I'm afaid that they have left it all to late for real good turn-out to occur and for the protest to be effective.

[MadDuck]

I am planning ta be there.

I wont be. Best of luck!

[miloking]

Aye MD, although I might give BRONZ some credit for lobbying, but they could have worked harder at keeping us motivated. Rolling Protests straight after the Bikeoi should have been made, but no we were advise ta wait. Others have been organising protests since then. Now in the middle of Winter when a Majority of bikers have gone in ta hibernation and have gotten on with their lives, BRONZ decides ta dust it's self off for a protest. Too dam late. Of cause they will be able ta say they have tried, and use the "lack" of interest shown to say that it's not worth fighting for.
I am planning ta be there. I have since it was hinted at 2 months ago. I had booked work off, thinking that they might go for something big in Welly again. I hope that it will be worth it, but I'm afaid that they have left it all to late for real good turn-out to occur and for the protest to be effective.

its never late to fight for fairness or justice....of course chances of the ACC rego fees being lowered are slim to none....its now fight so there isnt another raise of fees next year and/or year after.

[mashman]

a glimpse into the near future should we decide to stop paying for rego perhaps... http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/7427211/motorcyclists-shocked-at-campaign/

[RiderInBlack]

a glimpse into the near future should we decide to stop paying for rego perhaps... http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/7427211/motorcyclists-shocked-at-campaign/ (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/7427211/motorcyclists-shocked-at-campaign/I)[/QUOTE]I (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/7427211/motorcyclists-shocked-at-campaign/[/QUOTE]I) wouldn't put it past them, that the real reasons for the check is that they know that a lot of us are threating to not pay our regs, so they are putting the boot in first.
ED: Well on reading <!-- title / author block -->Nelson blitz on bikers... (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/forumdisplay.php/showthread.php/125063-Nelson-blitz-on-bikers...) I see that they seem to have a fair point. One that doesn't boot well for Sunday's Protest. I just wonder what the Media will state after Sunday. I wonder what resent Stat's they will being up to counter ours.

[Ixion]

Well, the cops in Nelson were'nt really stopping bikes to check regos, as such. The rego checking was just in passing, usually cops aren't all that hot on regos. Not to say they'll ignore it, but it's not a big deal to them.

The Nelson thing was cos they thought too many bikers were falling off their bikes. (And maybe a bit of 'We hate those jafa bastards ' xenophobia)

And, end of day, the only way the ACC levy is going to come down, is if we (collectively) do something about that.

We (collectively) are falling off our bikes too fuck'in often. Hard to argue with ACC when they can point to the long list of bikers who have fallen off , and how much it costs to patch them up again (or bury them, as case may be) .

No, I've not turned into Katman, I don't believe that every single crash is always the biker's fault. And unlike him , I doesn't hate you all. In fact we luvs all you coounts, even the ones that are just cunts. But, regardless of who's to blame , we're the ones that end up smeared across the tarmac.

Gotta do something about that, mkay? All of us. Black rubbery bits go down, right , and when the road goes left or right, best idea is for the bike to do the same.

Which is not to let me Smith off the hook, cos it's stiff as unfair as an unfair thing.

[Ixion]

its never late to fight for fairness or justice....of course chances of the ACC rego fees being lowered are slim to none....its now fight so there isnt another raise of fees next year and/or year after.

This man's got the picture.

[Katman]

And, end of day, the only way the ACC levy is going to come down, is if we (collectively) do something about that.

We (collectively) are falling off our bikes too fuck'in often. Hard to argue with ACC when they can point to the long list of bikers who have fallen off , and how much it costs to patch them up again (or bury them, as case may be) .

You're spot on.......


No, I've not turned into Katman, I don't believe that every single crash is always the biker's fault. And unlike him , I doesn't hate you all.

........but you're still a cock.

[scracha]

And, end of day, the only way the ACC levy is going to come down, is if we (collectively) do something about that.

We (collectively) are falling off our bikes too fuck'in often. Hard to argue with ACC when they can point to the long list of bikers who have fallen off , and how much it costs to patch them up again (or bury them, as case may be) .


Ok then. How 'bout

1) as a starting point we push very hard for hospitals to collect better stats on ACC claims for motorcyclists. I've a feeling that non registered farm ATV's and recrational dirt bikes will be a fair percentage. That's achievable. Going head to head against the powerful farming lobby without some stats to back us up is a non-starter.

2) Promote increased training requirements for motorcyclists. A lot of the riding a see is frankly bloody shocking and we're doing ourselves no favours by the "she'll be right" and "I learnt from my dad on the farm" type attitude. This will almost certainly result in reduced motorbicycle accidents (quite why the opposite is implied on BRONZ's website is a mystery to me) and with any luck calls for c@r drivers to get better training will be listened to.

[bogan]

And, end of day, the only way the ACC levy is going to come down, is if we (collectively) do something about that.

We (collectively) are falling off our bikes too fuck'in often. Hard to argue with ACC when they can point to the long list of bikers who have fallen off , and how much it costs to patch them up again (or bury them, as case may be) .

Which is not to let me Smith off the hook, cos it's stiff as unfair as an unfair thing.

yeh we crash too often, but injuries and levies aren't linked for cyclists, sportspeople, or DIY'rs etc. We are just an easy target and thats what I object to.


Ok then. How 'bout

1) as a starting point we push very hard for hospitals to collect better stats on ACC claims for motorcyclists. I've a feeling that non registered farm ATV's and recrational dirt bikes will be a fair percentage. That's achievable. Going head to head against the powerful farming lobby without some stats to back us up is a non-starter.

2) Promote increased training requirements for motorcyclists. A lot of the riding a see is frankly bloody shocking and we're doing ourselves no favours by the "she'll be right" and "I learnt from my dad on the farm" type attitude. This will almost certainly result in reduced motorbicycle accidents (quite why the opposite is implied on BRONZ's website is a mystery to me) and with any luck calls for c@r drivers to get better training will be listened to.

agree with this 100%

[MSTRS]

yeh we crash too often, but injuries and levies aren't linked for cyclists, sportspeople, or DIY'rs etc. We are just an easy target and thats what I object to.


Too bloody right. It's inequitable and makes a mockery of all the holier-than-thou spoutings from Nick the Prick and ACC.

[wysper]

yeh we crash too often, but injuries and levies aren't linked for cyclists, sportspeople, or DIY'rs etc. We are just an easy target and thats what I object to.




I think this is the division they want to create in NZ'ers. So we start saying "Activity X is just as bad as us! Levy them too if you are going to levy us!"
Sure thing says Govt. And bang, there we have it, more levies for all.

[bogan]

I think this is the division they want to create in NZ'ers. So we start saying "Activity X is just as bad as us! Levy them too if you are going to levy us!"
Sure thing says Govt. And bang, there we have it, more levies for all.

and then everyone is pissed off with ACC and they sell it to the aussies. It's pretty transparent, but I still object to being treated differently because I am an easy target. It's a very shrewd scheme National are playing, increase the ACC fund so it is saleable, increase public annoyance with ACC so not many object to it's sale, and decrease the number of bikers (listed on the popo site as a major problem in road toll).

[mashman]

I"]http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/7427211/motorcyclists-shocked-at-campaign/[/URL]I (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/7427211/motorcyclists-shocked-at-campaign/I) wouldn't put it past them, that the real reasons for the check is that they know that a lot of us are threating to not pay our regs, so they are putting the boot in first.
ED: Well on reading <!-- title / author block -->Nelson blitz on bikers... (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/forumdisplay.php/showthread.php/125063-Nelson-blitz-on-bikers...) I see that they seem to have a fair point. One that doesn't boot well for Sunday's Protest. I just wonder what the Media will state after Sunday. I wonder what resent Stat's they will being up to counter ours.

Aye... it always starts with an excuse... check the rego, note it's out and fill in the paperwork when you get back to the station +1 in the no rego column... If they're trying to get bikes off of the road, this is a great place to start... destroy bikers in the eyes of the public, because we're not paying our fair share, and then move for a complete ban as it costs too much to catch the bikers who don't have regos, but are a constant danger to society... Pretty poor, but if I can think of it, you can bet someone else can... but they're not out to get me :shifty:

[Ixion]

yeh we crash too often, but injuries and levies aren't linked for cyclists, sportspeople, or DIY'rs etc. We are just an easy target and thats what I object to.



agree with this 100%

Yes. Hence my statement that it's unfairer than an unfair thing. Both are needed. Fair treatment by ACC, but we also need to stop falling off so fuckin' often. M'kay ?

[Ocean1]

Hard to argue with ACC

Ixion could try harder.

Fer sooksake, I didn't ask to join their bloody scheme so they don't get to dictate how I ride on my roads.

[Ixion]

I need to highlight that 27th is not a protest ride as such (if people want a blat afterwards that's another matter) . It is a protest.

Nor, as I have said several times, is it a KB gig. It's a BRONZ gig, there are a lot of riders out there who have no connection with KB. BRONZ needs to know their sentiments. F'instance they know that Ulysses is opposed to any further action. But, Ulysses also vehemently opposed BIKEOI!, but lots of Ulyssians turned up. So the exec may be out of sync with the membership.

And the wild geese are a big unknown.

BRONZ wants to know how widespread the sentiment is for a more aggressive campaign for 2010. And, more importantly how many of those who want more aggression are actually prepared to be agressive themselves.

Those things as relates to KB they can (sort of) find out here. As relates to non-KB riders, another matter. So , the point and message isn't necesary directed toward the KB echlon, and there may be significant differences in takeup.

During the 2009 campaign a lot of people demanded disruption, aggression, confrontation. But when the homonymic gentleman organised a (well sorted) campaign on that basis , he found that all the folk who had loudly been demanding action mumbled and shuffled off. I think he ended up with three bikes at Whangamata . So words don't always translate into actions.

[Bodir]

Was that so hard to post right away? Would have given some people more time to organise the non KB. But I for one did nothing up to now. Now I know what your aim is and can act accordingly

[Little Miss Trouble]

I hope you get a decent turn out. I won't be in on this one, I'm not scheduled to be back in Auckland again until the following weekend

[RiderInBlack]

Was that so hard to post right away? Would have given some people more time to organise the non KB. But I for one did nothing up to now. Now I know what your aim is and can act accordinglyExactly, I would have been texting and chatting to my non-KB rider mates back months ago if BRONZ was after a true show of feelings. Bit late now. I bet there are a lot of interested riders that don't even know this is going down. Even riders like myself who do know are still tossing up if this Sunday "Show Of Hands" is worth going to or that we will end-up looking stupid. BRONZ needs to show stronger leadership if they want more NZ Riders to have confidence in BRONZ's ability to lobby for Biker Rights in NZ.

[NONONO]

Sorry to break up this 'I can piss higher than you can'" competition but..
WTF are we actually meeting for on Sunday?
To stroke a few egos? Or to try and get BRONZ a share of the so called training budget?
Can't say I'm adverse to either but FFS will someone let the fucking plebs know so we can make an informed choice about turning up.
Y'know, the guys who did the Bikoi, turned up at all the protests, wrote their submissions, talked to their workmates about how it was all the thin end....blah blah blah.
Thought it was all about ACC and the National rip off, but could be wrong, apparently.
Fkin sick of this shit. Lets get together, do it, do it right or admit failure and buy a car.

[mashman]

It all seems pretty straight forward to me. Go find out for yourself, or don't. What's the worst that can happen. You'll get wet?

What's the best that can happen :shifty:

[Waxxa]

Sorry to break up this 'I can piss higher than you can'" competition but..
WTF are we actually meeting for on Sunday?
To stroke a few egos? Or to try and get BRONZ a share of the so called training budget?
Can't say I'm adverse to either but FFS will someone let the fucking plebs know so we can make an informed choice about turning up.
Y'know, the guys who did the Bikoi, turned up at all the protests, wrote their submissions, talked to their workmates about how it was all the thin end....blah blah blah.
Thought it was all about ACC and the National rip off, but could be wrong, apparently.
Fkin sick of this shit. Lets get together, do it, do it right or admit failure and buy a car.

+1. state the action of protest BRONZ or this will be a failure. The fact that there has been few protests since the Bikeoi last November and effective protests that have educated the public about the Woodhouse Principles of ACC means that the increased levies are here to stay and the changes to ACC are going ahead.

[Reckless]

I have a few thoughts!

Firstly looking the AGM pdf posted up from bronze there are only 242 paid up members in Bronze.
Given the above I hope all posters here putting their 10c in are paid members!

Secondly 242 members FFS that's a pittance!
There must be a shit load of people out there expecting to be represented and are NOT fronting up with their $20 sub!
Thirdly There are criticisms and calls for Bronze to work harder? I'm not close to Bronze management and have never attended any of their meetings. But from the outside I have never heard Les gets a wage for this and with a support base of only 242 members to ask to work harder and smarter is a bit of a joke imho! If another 5000 joined, fair enough, get stuck in to Bronze, but essentially if Bronze only represents 242 bikers they are pissing into the wind. And everyone who hasn't fronted up is making this whole thing a bit of a freckin joke! Nick smith must know this and is laughing all the way down the road! Its all wind and bullshit if Bronze has such a small membership as far as the ACC and Nick Smith is concerned. There simply is not enough voting base there to change a thing. The problem is not with Bronze its with their lack of support/members.

IMHO: First you join (its only $20 freckin bucks), then you get involved (if you want to), then you can criticise. If you are a member go through Bronze not here. If you can't be arsed doing any of the aforementioned things the least you can do is turn up with your Bronze subs on the day and see what happens.

Just my 2c

[Katman]

The problem is not with Bronze its with their lack of support/members.


I agree that 242 members is pathetically small.

But maybe the lack of support/members is due to a problem within BRONZ.

[Bald Eagle]

I agree that 242 members is pathetically small.

But maybe the lack of support/members is due to a problem within BRONZ.

Why not join and find out ?

[Ixion]

BRONZ represents motorcyclists the way greenpeace represents whales. Motorcycling not motorcyclists.

242 is a good increase from 40 a year ago!.

BTW, it costs about $500 - $1000 a year to be on the BRONZ committee - stuff that you pay for , travel costs etc.

Anyone is welcome to start an alternative, y'know.

[Katman]

Why not join and find out ?

Don't worry - I'm one of those 242.

[Reckless]

BRONZ represents motorcyclists the way greenpeace represents whales. Motorcycling not motorcyclists.

Good perspective!
Makes me feel a bit guilty for my lack of effort considering we'd prob all say we are passionate about Motorcycling!

And thanks from the quieter portion of the 242 for you and your teams efforts!

[RiderInBlack]

Firstly looking the AGM pdf posted up from bronze there are only 242 paid up members in Bronze.
Given the above I hope all posters here putting their 10c in are paid members!
Well I am, which is why I was hoping for more clarity from BRONZ for Sunday than what was given. But WTF, have made other plans for Sunday now anyway.

[Squiggles]

*bump*

</10chars>

[dpex]

BRONZ represents motorcyclists the way greenpeace represents whales. Motorcycling not motorcyclists.

242 is a good increase from 40 a year ago!.

BTW, it costs about $500 - $1000 a year to be on the BRONZ committee - stuff that you pay for , travel costs etc.

Anyone is welcome to start an alternative, y'know.

Ixion, you have to sit back and consider the nature of terrorism. The power of terrorism is contained in the threat, the possibility. And so one tells the media that such and such will happen, either, here, or there, or there. The result will be this, that, or the other.

For example, tell the media that 10,000 bikers are going to infest a Westfield carpark and deny the entire mall of parking spaces for a day, gets their interest; as history demonstrated.

The trick is to name several malls to then infest all the mall owners with the worry of thousands of bikers turning up to deny parking spaces to shoppers.

Then you contact the media, as a mall shop owner and complain. 'They're coming here! They will destroy my business!' Then you do it again, as a mall shop owner from another mall.

I won't take long for the story-starved media to pick up on it. Do it well and they will do the beat-up for you.

But, at the end of the day you have to deliver a lot of bikers to a place which will cause the media to follow it up.

You can tell the media anything. They're such dicks that the bigger the claim the more they hope a thousand bikers will turn up with shotguns and rotten eggs.

So the trick is; get media interest then make sure you turn up to a specific site, upset a whole bunch of folk, then tell the media why you're there.

Then repeat it again, every other weekend until someone finally says enough is enough.

Remember, most bikers have sucked on the ACC increase. Your task is to reignite their rage.

Good luck.

But for the record....I'll join the 27th protest if I know where to go.

[BRONZ]

Viaduct in downtown Auckland. Actually on Queens Wharf. See Post #1 . 11am.

[Mr Merde]

From todays NZ Herald

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10654221

"Dr Smith told Parliament's transport and industrial relations committee the corporation was expected to report about a $2 billion surplus this year, mainly due to a huge turnaround in investment markets, a $35 million reduction in administration costs and, most significantly, a stabilisation in the rate of increase of its long-term liabilities."

Thank you all for your generous assistance in making ACC profitable again

[MSTRS]

That's the spin version of...
The recession is easing. All levies are up. We've sacked a shitload of case managers and other paper shufflers. We've massively increased the number of claims denied. We've cancelled payments on existing claims.

[jafar]

From todays NZ Herald

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10654221

"Dr Smith told Parliament's transport and industrial relations committee the corporation was expected to report about a $2 billion surplus this year, mainly due to a huge turnaround in investment markets, a $35 million reduction in administration costs and, most significantly, a stabilisation in the rate of increase of its long-term liabilities."

Thank you all for your generous assistance in making ACC profitable again

That sits well with the claim that ACC is broke & we have to put up all vehicle registrations to cover the shortfall.
Wonder which one is the lie?
:mad:

[Mom]

I'll join the 27th protest if I know where to go.

You should have received an email from BRONZ, well 2 emails actually, giving details.

[MadDuck]

You should have received an email from BRONZ, well 2 emails actually, giving details.

I got 1. My frst since joining back in November..... Doesnt resemble anything like the post that is on here though. Maybe I will get email number 2 on Monday.

[Fatt Max]

I got 1. My frst since joining back in November..... Doesnt resemble anything like the post that is on here though. Maybe I will get email number 2 on Monday.

Far canal, I have not received a SINGLE email from them......is it cos I is fat...??

I'm going along on Sunday, I'll be in teh cage with mini Max but I want to see what the jackanory is on the day.

BRONZ dont like fat people, eh.......

[NONONO]

No one likes fat people, unless they are Maradonna,,,,no no, I was right the first time...
See you Sunday, and hopefully Monday after the 5 - nil destruction of the Bosh!

[Ixion]

I is fat, and i gets emails. If you're not getting them and you want them, pm hanne, she maintains the list. Bear in mind that by law you must opt in if ypu havent specifically given BRONZ approval to email you they cant do it

[Ixion]

Oh, and it may be an idea to check your spam folder or your isp's spam settings. A lot of spam filters regard anything sent to a lot of recipients as spam . You may need to add BRONZ to your white list

[MadDuck]

Oh, and it may be an idea to check your spam folder or your isp's spam settings. A lot of spam filters regard anything sent to a lot of recipients as spam . You may need to add BRONZ to your white list

Oh silly me. I should have known to log into KB to find out why I am not getting emails or any sort of communicaion from BRONZ since I gave them my hard earned cash.

I know better now

[Reckless]

Actually I haven't got any emails from Bronze either???

[NONONO]

Love the "Tags for this Thread" heading....Plot lost.

[jamfig]

where are we starting from "WESTGATE" for westies what time when are we leaving anyone going or is this so secret that not only ACC/GOVERNMENT dont know but someone forgot to tell those who wanna protest too ???????????????????????????????????????????????? clocks ticking someone wanna enlighten us all or shall we just do something else :)

[Ixion]

BRONZ hasn't organised anything for outlying points. Meeting place is Viaduct / Queens wharf. If people want to gather at Westgate and ride together thats fine, but over to them to meet up.

[Captian soup]

10am for westgate is what i have been told by a couple of seniors....mind u u cant trust these ol ppl... always up to somthing... HAHAHHA jokes.

Il be there and im too ugly for balaklavas, takes the shock factor away.

[Fatt Max]

Il be there and im too ugly for balaklavas, takes the shock factor away.

I dont have a balaclava. Mind you, I will wear my Bra-laclava to show off my ample flabby beer tits, that will frighten the crapola out of anyone....

[Phreak]

I dont have a balaclava. Mind you, I will wear my Bra-laclava to show off my ample flabby beer tits, that will frighten the crapola out of anyone....

Haha not sure if I wanna come now! Kidding, I'll be there. Interested just to see what will happen.........

[Phreak]

I dont have a balaclava. Mind you, I will wear my Bra-laclava to show off my ample flabby beer tits, that will frighten the crapola out of anyone....

Haha not sure if I wanna come now! Kidding, I'll be there. Interested just to see what will happen.........

[Pixie]

None of the cake shops in Bugtussle are open on Sunday,so I'll be out of luck.



Explain to me again why we need baklava?

[Ixion]

So that we can have our cake and eat it too, of course. Who's bringing the cucumber sandwiches?

[NONONO]

After being there this morning, I gots to ask....WTF???????????

[bogan]

after not being there this morn, I gots to ask, how did it go?

[riffer]

After being there this morning, I gots to ask....WTF???????????


after not being there this morn, I gots to ask, how did it go?


All right guys, what happened? :|

[bogan]

All right guys, what happened? :|

maybe they're all in the cells? or at the pub, my money is on the later!

[jade911]

there was like only 100ish bikes and no news crews, quite a dissapointing turnout

[Fatt Max]

Well, about, I donno, 60-70 bikes maybe turned up. I was in the cage and had mini Max with me. We gathered in the card park next to the ferry building, Les and a few of the BRONZ guys got up, said a few words, wanted to know from us what we wanted in the way of protest action. A petition was passed around inviting you to say what action you preferred. Then we got some postcards to send to Nick Smith and bought some stickers.

Then, a manequin dummy with Nick Smiths head on it was brought in on the back of a very nice bike, it was dumped in a 40 gallon drum of sheep shit and an oversized rego sticker stuck up it's arse while we shouted 'Get your ACC and jam it up your ARSE'.

And that was it.

Credit where it is due, BRONZ did try to rally support and get feedback from the crowd as to what action they wanted. Brave and ballsy IMHO. They invited anyone with questions or concerns to raise them, again ballsy.

I suppose the feeling I did get from talking to a few of the guys is that this particular gathering was not publicised as well as maybe it could or should have been. There was a lot of slagging going on and that did taint us all as being divided, which is not really where any of us want to be.

How do we fix that? Jeez I dunno, wish there was a simple enough answer but if we are a divided community then it plays into the hands of those we are trying to lobby and change.

As I said, credit where it is due, BRONZ did have a crack at rarking everyone up but the turnout was not spectacular, so not too much could be achieved.

Mind you, the lovely lady flogging the stickers did say (and I have heard MANY bikers say this) we must keep getting the word out.

Thats my take on it. Mini Max loved being among the bikes and the riders.

Oh, and I never went to the pub, honest.....

[Phreak]

Not the best protest I've been to, but nice to be out among other bikers again. The guys with the mannequin thing took off too early for anyone to follow...

Still, I reckon it was better than doing nothing. Bring on the next one guys!

(I'll be posting off my postcard to Mr Smith first thing tomorrow morning. Wonder if he'll reply...?)

[Marmoot]

Advertising the protest in NZHerald would be better for the exposure and sure to attract some attention (from everyone including opposition), wouldn't it?

[FastBikeGear]

It was pretty evident from the brief conversations that I heard this morning at the protest, that as someone said earlier in the thread there is very little consensus about protesting in the biking community.

There is an evident lack of consensus about both what people are protesting about and how to do it.

Here's some food for thinking. Please ignore the typos and bad grammar it's a bit of rapid brain dump.

There are a whole range of reasons as follows (and nicely summed up in the original BRONZ manifesto here http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/111647-Manifesto)

The following are the main items (Features) in the list.

Some people are protesting about the privatising of ACC accounts. Some of us believe that ACC is going to allow the private sector to move into providing injury insurance and compensation for motor vehicle accidents. Some riders want this opened up to private competition some don't.

Some people are Protesting about the move to the fully funded model. Some riders are in favour of this and some aren't

Some people are protesting about the inequity of 'insurance' fees paid by different risk groups and get into the analysis of complicated statistics to prove their point.

Some people are protesting because they want a return to the long abandoned principals of the Woodhouse report that ACC was founded on.

Some people are protesting because the new changes are being justified on a new philosophy that motorcyclists are ‘responsible’ for their accidents which re-introduces the notion of fault into the scheme when it was set up in the first place to avoid it.

Some are protesting that those who choose motorcycles instead of cars make a positive social and environmental contribution. motorcycles use less fuel, have a smaller footprint, cause less emission, congestion and pollution

Some are protesting that ACC should be required, as public policy to take account of social and environmental benefits when setting levies and accept a responsibility for promoting those

Some are protesting that the present method of levying vehicle registrations causes unjustifiable anomalies and injustice, not only to motorcyclists but to anyone who has more than one vehicle but drives only one at a time.

Some are protesting that ACC is not in financial crisis and is not broke. The "crisis" is an artificially engendered one to give spurious justification for actions that the Government could not otherwise justify

Some are protesting that there is no justification, statistical or otherwise, for different levy rates on different capacities of motorcycles.


The marketing problem

If this was a product and campaigning for changes to ACC is a marketing issue, then you have a problem. The problem is we have a product that has multiple features (the list above) and not all customers want all features.

When marketing a product (in this case your product is changing ACC) you are typically looking for a single (USP) Unique Selling Proposition sometimes called a Point of Difference that will both significantly effect (or benefit) the majority of customers and be simple to convey to the majority of customers.

Which would you pick as the USP from the list above?

Next you have to decide who the target market for the campaign is?

Is your market all New Zealanders, or just all motorcyclists, or is it just Nick Smith and key members of National Party that you have to sell our product to?

Or do you even need to sell your proposal to change ACC to the next government (perhaps Labour and Phil?) and get them to adopt it as part of their stated election campaign promises?

What will it take for the National Party to change their mind. Will you be able to convince them by logic they have made a genuine error so that they put up their hands and say we see the error in our decisions and will reverse them?

Can we change Nicks mind without support (pressure) from other groups and is the motorcycle riders market big enough on their own to bring pressure to change the system? Motorcyclists represent a reasonably big voting block on their own.

What form will the pressure need to be in?

1.If they don't change their minds it will be a key factor in them being voted out at the next election?
2.If they don't change their minds you will vilify and lampoon them so that they buckle and cave in?


Taking the campaign to the market

Having made these decisions it needs to be decided how to take it to market. What form and tone do your protests and marketing (lobbying) need to take to get the results you want? If you honestly believe you don't need the rest of the motoring public on side, maybe you can afford to alienate them and this may change the style of protesting/lobbying you opt for. There are many many ways you can take the message to the market. Maybe you organise a national petition to show that the countries leaders that the form of ACC we have is a voting issue.

So the decisions that need to be made are:

What is the USP?
Who are you marketing your USP to?
What pressure can you bring to support your USP
How do you take our message to the chosen target market?

[MSTRS]

My opinion is that Nick the prick isn't interested in our opinion. So we must grab his attention by targetting all of NZ. With the message that everyone is being charged more and is getting less for their money. Whether ACC remains a 'public' entity or goes private, makes no difference. Everyone is being shafted. The only way to stop this is to return ACC to it's founding principles. And stop all political tinkering.

[Katman]

What will it take for the National Party to change their mind.

The greatest leverage we could possibly get would come from motorcyclists being seen to be taking motorcycling a whole lot more responsibly (including putting pressure on fellow motorcyclists to clean up their act) and becoming a less costly burden for ACC.

We need to be seen to be crashing a whole lot less.

[bogan]

I think one of the reasons the bikeoi worked so well, was that it wasn't about any consensus's other than we don't want these fucking levies. Supporters of all actions turned up, and all the reps got a say (i think?).

Why not try that again, set a date, get speaker submissions (bronz, uylesses, wima etc; katman can even stand up in front of thousands of bikers and tell us to sort our shit out if he wants!), put the word out ages in advance, get huge numbers, that will send a message.

[retro asian]

Here are some photos, in case anyone wants to email a press release to stuff.co.nz or nzherald etc

The effergy was a novel idea, but there was no one (from the public) around in the vicinity to see it. If it was in the viaduct by the restaurants or on Queen st it would have been fun for the passers by to watch. And kinda gutted that we didn't get to ride through the city as a big group with our "Nick Smith".

[Katman]

The effergy was a novel idea, but there was no one (from the public) around in the vicinity to see it.

Thank fuck for that.

How big a laughing stock do you want us to be?

[Big Dave]

Advertising the protest in NZHerald would be better for the exposure and sure to attract some attention (from everyone including opposition), wouldn't it?

BRONZ can afford classified advertising.

[Katman]

BRONZ can afford classified advertising.

BRONZ need to start asking themselves why (at a time when motorcyclists are looking for positive and assertive leadership) are they not gaining the widespread support of motorcyclists that they should conceivably be able to expect.

[NONONO]

BRONZ need to start asking themselves why (at a time when motorcyclists are looking for positive and assertive leadership) are they not gaining the widespread support of motorcyclists that they should conceivably be able to expect.

Because, as Les keeps telling us, BRONZ do not represent bikers, they (we, I spose as a member) represent motorcycling.
Now I for one have never been off road on a bike, never raced on a track, don't hoon across deserts or play motorcycle polo. I ride on the roads so by definition am only a minor concern for BRONZ. Suppose BRONZ is the equivalent of "Bike Rider TV", interested in all things two wheeled and motorised. But I'm not really. I'm interested in road bikes and the people who ride them on the road.
There is a not too subtle difference and no doubt many of us do both. But I'm less than interested in quad bike races and agility trails.

[Katman]

Because, as Les keeps telling us, BRONZ do not represent bikers, they (we, I spose as a member) represent motorcycling.


Unfortunately, currently BRONZ seems to be representing nothing other than Les' bitter and twisted viewpoint.

[Ixion]

Worked for me, to the extent that it answered the questions I wanted answered.

About 75 bikes, a few more people. But, they were the same 75 that have faithfully turned out for each event.

And that wasn't the demographic we were looking for (as I kept saying). The people we were hoping to reach, the hardmen, the wild geese, not associated with clubs or the internet, weren't there at all. And we did try to reach them , through channels that (I hope) most of you don't know about.

They responded with a big yawn. So, my take , is that the "heaps of dudes ready for action so long as it's aggressive and confrontational", that we keep being told about, don't actually exist. And the hard men , the men who would be up for disruptive action, have solved the ACC issue the easy way- they're just not registering their bikes. Sorted.

The people we see still protesting (and full respect to them) are polite, respectful, law abiding. Very few Harleys, lots of BMWs sort of thing.

But those are the sort of people that political systems ignore. Unless there are thousands of them, 70 turnout in mid winter, maybe 300 in summer. 500 at max even with massive promotion. That won't set fear into the hearts of Mr Smith or Mr Judge.

We cut the program short when we saw the turnout, wasn't going to work with those numbers, and they weren't people that would have been comfortable with it.

Not analysed all the feedback yet , but overwhelmingly, as expected it's in favour of legal, mostly peaceful. Not convinced myself that it really reflects motorcycling, but it's the only feedback we have, and the numbers are what the numbers are, BRONZ isn't in the business of telling people what they should think.

Which at least settles the internal issue within BRONZ. Pity, but as I sa the numbers are what the numbers are.

BRONZ represents motorcycling , not motorcyclists. So we can't just ask our membership what they think, or even the internet (cos, odd as it may seem, some people aren't into the net). Today we asked those people, the ones who aren't on the net, aren't in BRONZ , if they wanted in. They weren't interested.

Doesn't mean we give up, but its pretty clear the numbers aren't there for mass action. So, it's back to the drawing board.

Further opposition is going to have be based in those smoke filled rooms again, the stuff Mr Wobblyas talked about. (interestingly, haven't heard from him in a long time. Sign of a changing tide? )

Thanks to everyone who turned out.

[Ixion]

Because, as Les keeps telling us, BRONZ do not represent bikers, they (we, I spose as a member) represent motorcycling.
Now I for one have never been off road on a bike, never raced on a track, don't hoon across deserts or play motorcycle polo. I ride on the roads so by definition am only a minor concern for BRONZ. Suppose BRONZ is the equivalent of "Bike Rider TV", interested in all things two wheeled and motorised. But I'm not really. I'm interested in road bikes and the people who ride them on the road.
There is a not too subtle difference and no doubt many of us do both. But I'm less than interested in quad bike races and agility trails.

Are "motorcyclists looking for positive and assertive leadship" ? I don't think they are. After todays meeting, I stopped at the abr in Wiawera. (Nice bar). lady behind the abr rides a CB400. Was mildly interested in the protest, agreed that ACC was expensive, not interested in actually doing anything about. Looking for "positive and assertive leadership". Nope.

Moved on to Puhoi. Couple of dozen Harleys there (the people I was hoping might turn out for the meeting). Had a wee talk with them. They don't like paying $517 Who does, But they don't see it as a big deal, they're not looking for any action on it. Looking for "positive and assertive leadership" . Nope. They'd tell the positive and assertive leader to fuck off.

Biggest motorcycle club in the country, Ulysses, looking for "positive and assertive leadership" ? As in , follow the one perfect motorcyclist and all drive round in two wheeled cars. Definitely not.

Are the (large number of) dirt riders unhappy and looking for "positive and assertive leadership"? I'm not into that scene , but I don't think they are.

Should they be? Maybe. Should they all be beating themselves over the head and yelling "I am evil, I am unworthy, everything is my fault". No. Fuck off.

I think "positive and assertive leadership" is code speak for "beat up on bikers who don't kowtow to the one perfect motorcyclist and drive two wheeled cars; and grovel apologetically to Mr Smith". And I don't see any appetite within motorcycling for that.

I don't agree with what Mr Smith and ACC are doing. Nor does BRONZ. But the vast mass of NZ motorcyclists aren't too worried about it. We'll keep trying to persuade bikers that they should be worried about it. But not at the expense of treating them like shit.

(but please stop falling off so forkin' often, m'kay)

[Maha]

''I don't agree with what Mr Smith and ACC are doing. Nor does BRONZ. But the vast mass of NZ motorcyclists aren't too worried about it''.

It really does seem that way Les.
But we will crack on regardless.

Like you said in Wellington ''this is not the end, its the begining''.

Our last outing attracted 105 bikes, and to be honest, that was more than any of us expected.
United we stand, divided we.......well you know how it goes.

[Ixion]

''I don't agree with what Mr Smith and ACC are doing. Nor does BRONZ. But the vast mass of NZ motorcyclists aren't too worried about it''.

It really does seem that way Les.
But we will crack on regardless.

Like you said in Wellington ''this is not the end, its the begining''.

Our last outing attracted 105 bikes, and to be honest, that was more than any of us expected.
United we stand, divided we.......well you know how it goes.

My problem is that 105 and the 75 today were the same people. It's not like we're adding new blood with each meeting/ride. We're not reaching the rest, like the couple of dozen Harleys at Puhoi today. They just don't see a problem.

I don't think we're actually all that much divided , no more than bikers always are , (except for the one obvious permanently divided gentleman), in that the people who aren't fighting don't actually disagree with the campaign, they just don't see it as an issue that's important enough to get their time or attention.

Apathy, not opposition is the problem.

[Katman]

Apathy, not opposition is the problem.

No, lack of vision is the problem.

[NONONO]

My problem is that 105 and the 75 today were the same people. It's not like we're adding new blood with each meeting/ride. We're not reaching the rest, like the couple of dozen Harleys at Puhoi today. They just don't see a problem.

I don't think we're actually all that much divided , no more than bikers always are , (except for the one obvious permanently divided gentleman), in that the people who aren't fighting don't actually disagree with the campaign, they just don't see it as an issue that's important enough to get their time or attention.

Apathy, not opposition is the problem.

I fkin give up..
So this is what you meant by "The hard men"? Harley riders? They ride a Harley so they must be hard men?
Yknow what Les, that just about does it for me, book yourself into a clinic man, youre about done.
BRONZ can have my membership back and sorely missed I'm sure I'll be, not being a member of HOG and all.
You disrespectful SOB. Those guys who turned out today, who have turned out time and time again, politely or otherwise deserve better than BRONZ relying on "the hard men" pushing the cause.
Hard men, my arse!
Buying in to the "in the wind" branding does fck all for this fight. 125 or Rocket 111, all the same to me, but not it seems to you.
Fck it...
Done with BRONZ, until it gets it's head out of it's arse (or gets the arse off it's head).

[wysper]

I personally don't believe we can change this with motorcyclists protesting. We would need to be joined by many other groups. Unless the Govt sees that it will lose power or money. They won't give a shit. Doesn't matter how big the protest is or how many sigs on the petition. Unless it is going to cost those in power that power or money, they will do what they like. That is democracy for you. Possibly better than a dictatorship, possibly not. But it is the style of government we have.

Money talks.
Power talks.
Mr and Mrs Everyperson can talk.. but will be ignored.

Even the way the voting system is set up is set up to keep them in power. We have given up our ability to vote some one out for 'fairer representation'. I thought MMP would be better, I didn't realise how impossibly hard it is to vote someone out with MMP.

And as for Ixions comment about not falling off so often, wouldn't matter if there wasn't another single motorcycle accident again, that is not their agenda, in this case privatising acc is. And god knows what else after that. We have seen how they ignore stats that work against them and bend others to work for them.

However, I will still join peaceful protests, I will still make submissions, I will still vote against National. I believe I must try.

I will also still pay my registration. I have more to lose than $517.

[Beeza]

So you want people to turn up to an unknown location wearing balaclavas? I guess I will avoid this one thanks BRONZ.

Sounds anti-social to me and precisely the sort of crap to get reasonable motorcyclists with a worthy complaint hated by the wider public. I'll distance myself from these dumb yahoos of BRONZ.

[RiderInBlack]

I personally don't believe we can change this with motorcyclists protesting........
And as for Ixions (change that ta Katman, and ya be right:rolleyes:, but the point is still true. RIB) comment about not falling off so often, wouldn't matter if there wasn't another single motorcycle accident again, that is not their agenda, in this case privatising acc is. And god knows what else after that. We have seen how they ignore stats that work against them and bend others to work for them.Totally agree with ya there Wysper (bar the about small suggested Edit:rolleyes:). The problem is ta get the idea across ta the masses. The loss of the Woodhouse Principle and the impending Privatisation of ACC is really what is at stack.
Ixon, don't judge all of Ulysses by the few that you know. The ones I ride with up in the Norf are quite a varied lot, and don't fit the mold ya trying ta label them all with (bit like bike riders as a whole).

[Ixion]

I fkin give up..
So this is what you meant by "The hard men"? Harley riders? They ride a Harley so they must be hard men?
Yknow what Les, that just about does it for me, book yourself into a clinic man, youre about done.
BRONZ can have my membership back and sorely missed I'm sure I'll be, not being a member of HOG and all.
You disrespectful SOB. Those guys who turned out today, who have turned out time and time again, politely or otherwise deserve better than BRONZ relying on "the hard men" pushing the cause.
Hard men, my arse!
Buying in to the "in the wind" branding does fck all for this fight. 125 or Rocket 111, all the same to me, but not it seems to you.
Fck it...
Done with BRONZ, until it gets it's head out of it's arse (or gets the arse off it's head).


I don't know if the 'hard men' ride Harleys. Certainly not all Harley riders would class as 'hard men'. Personally I am now fairly sure that the hard men don't actually exist.

Which is pretty much what the homonymic gentleman found earlier. But, we had to give them the opportunity to come forward if they were there. They didn't so we can ignore that approach in future.

But I do know that Harley riders form probably the biggest single group within motorcycling. They turned out in thousands for BIKEOI!. And haven't turned out again. If the ACC fight is one that involves motorcycling as a whole, then the opinions of the largest group in motorcycling can't be ignored. Even if those opinions are not those which you, or I, agree with.

Because, if we are to win, we must have the support of that group. And of many others, but Harleys are an easy one to identify. If we're not getting it (which we're not) then we (meaning me) need to find out why. That's not a matter of disrespecting those who have got the message and are supporting the cause. It's a matter of finding why a crucial part of our market isn't listening.

That 'finding out' is a bit tricky, because Harley riders are not majorily represented in BRONZ. Or here.But find out we must, and convince them that they should be fighting alongside us.

Which makes me start to think that the best approach may be education rather than protest. How can we show Harley riders (and scooter riders, another missing demographic) why they shouldn't be ignoring this.

(I'm probably including Harley type bikes as Harleys - the crusiers generally).

There are probably other big segments that aren't buying into the ACC fight. Harleys and scooters are two that I see. We need them aboard. Simple as that

[Ixion]

Totally agree with ya there Wysper (bar the about small suggested Edit:rolleyes:). The problem is ta get the idea across ta the masses. The loss of the Woodhouse Principle and the impending Privatisation of ACC is really what is at stack.
Ixon, don't judge all of Ulysses by the few that you know. The ones I ride with up in the Norf are quite a varied lot, and don't fit the mold ya trying ta label them all with (bit like bike riders as a whole).

I'm sure you are right about Ulysses. And, I do not know very many. Some (most ? all maybe) of those I do are very nice people. Their riding style doesn't work for me, but that's neither here nor there.

I do know (well, I think I do ) that Ulysses the organisation is very opposed to any resistance to ACC. They were from the beginning (again, that's the organisation, not the members), But, back at the beginning, a lot of Ulyssians turned out to fight, and ignored the Ulysses head office message . So I think that the organisational message wasn't in sync with the membership.

But now, I don't think I'm seeing them, in any numbers So I don't know if that's because they , like the Harley guys, don't think it's worth the effort; or because they've agreed with head office that the increase is , if not a good thing, then at least a justifiable one.

Once again, we need Ulyssians and Harley riders , and everyone else. We've tried peaceful, we've tried lobbying, we've tried protest rides. The ACC don't seem interested in taking any notice of any of it. And now we've made an honest effort to engage with the "not so peacful " people - who turn out, I suspect, not to exist. So, where to now ?

The only thing they (and Mr Smith) did take notice of was sheer numbers. 7000 bikes frightened them. So, how do we roll out 2000 bikes in Auckland (that being about the proportion I guess ?) . What will make the Harley riders, and the Ulyssians, and the scooter riders, turn out as they did for BIKEOI!.

[MadDuck]

Certainly not all Harley riders would class as 'hard men'.

Really? You have finally worked this out?



But find out we must, and convince them that they should be fighting alongside us.

Maybe give them a bit more respect? Just a thought.

This Harley rider (i.e ME) is unimpressed with your reference to the type of people WE are just because of the brand of bike we happen to enjoy riding.......

[bogan]

The only thing they (and Mr Smith) did take notice of was sheer numbers. 7000 bikes frightened them. So, how do we roll out 2000 bikes in Auckland (that being about the proportion I guess ?) . What will make the Harley riders, and the Ulyssians, and the scooter riders, turn out as they did for BIKEOI!.

perhaps going to parliament helped too, is there likely to be another bikeoi similar time this year?

[Ixion]

Well we tried to get BIKEOI2 off the mark back in December. But it got no traction and withered away . (threads still on the forum, last post about 27th Dec I think) .I don't know if another attempt would fare any better, unless ACC come out with another rape attempt in October.

We have to be careful though, last time we turned up with 7000. If we only managed say 1000 this time, Mr Smith would claim that as a victory and a sign that we had lost support.

[bogan]

Well we tried to get BIKEOI2 off the mark back in December. But it got no traction and withered away . (threads still on the forum, last post about 27th Dec I think) .I don't know if another attempt would fare any better, unless ACC come out with another rape attempt in October.

We have to be careful though, last time we turned up with 7000. If we only managed say 1000 this time, Mr Smith would claim that as a victory and a sign that we had lost support.

over the summer holidays probably wasn't the best time for organising anything and so soon after the first one too. I reckon if you want big numbers again, another bikeoi is the way to go, no other action has even got 10% of the bikes we had there (iirc). And the way I see it if we don't turn up again at all, nick doesn't have to claim anything, its obvious he's won.

[Katman]

So, where to now ?


You seem blinkered by the idea of protest.

Perhaps it's time to address the manner in which motorcyclists conduct themselves.

Or is that just too hard?

[bogan]

You seem blinkered by the idea of protest.

Perhaps it's time to address the manner in which motorcyclists conduct themselves.

Or is that just too hard?

and that will reduce the levies how? certainly not before 2019 anyway

[Katman]

and that will reduce the levies how? certainly not before 2019 anyway

If you want the levies reduced then the means lie within our own hands.

[bogan]

If you want the levies reduced then the means lie within our own hands.

simple repetition does not constitute a rebuttal.

[Katman]

simple repetition does not constitute a rebuttal.

Perhaps you need to open your mind.

[miloking]

The only thing they (and Mr Smith) did take notice of was sheer numbers. 7000 bikes frightened them. So, how do we roll out 2000 bikes in Auckland (that being about the proportion I guess ?) . What will make the Harley riders, and the Ulyssians, and the scooter riders, turn out as they did for BIKEOI!.

I think BBQ and beer wil guarantee much higher turn out (oh and summer helps too :D)....by the way i was there at wharf today(10 minutes late but still) signed the petition and when i heard "lets go ride" left..

Also if we are to have any chance to "protest" anything...i think we have to stop this arguing about who is riding Harley and who isnt or if you support BRONZ or if you are member of Ulysses etc. in the end we are all bikers and this is the exactly what Nick Smith wants, for bikers to be divided in invidiual clubs with their own agendas fighting each other... if we continue this we are all truly fucked.

[cowpoos]

and that will reduce the levies how? certainly not before 2019 anyway


If you want the levies reduced then the means lie within our own hands.

Bogan.....he's saying...stop falling off ya bikes...and it will get cheaper. simple ;)

[Virago]

...I don't know if the 'hard men' ride Harleys. Certainly not all Harley riders would class as 'hard men'.

---

(I'm probably including Harley type bikes as Harleys - the crusiers generally)...


...Biggest motorcycle club in the country, Ulysses, looking for "positive and assertive leadership" ? As in , follow the one perfect motorcyclist and all drive round in two wheeled cars. Definitely not...


I'm sure you are right about Ulysses. And, I do not know very many. Some (most ? all maybe) of those I do are very nice people. Their riding style doesn't work for me, but that's neither here nor there...

I'm surprised that whilst you talk of uniting motorcyclists in this battle, you choose to categorise, factionalise and alienate with such snippets as above. Do you think that if car drivers were facing a similar battle, they would segregate into Ford versus Holden camps?

I personally believe that this particular protest action was poorly conceived, and doomed to fail from the start. The initial proposal would give no detail, other that dark mutterings about physical intimidation and law-breaking. This appears to have alienated the majority.

The actual reality, which simply involved quietly meeting somewhere to perform perversions on an effigy, appears to have disillusioned many of those few prepared to turn up.

Time for some fresh thinking, perhaps...

[cowpoos]

I'm surprised that whilst you talk of uniting motorcyclists in this battle, you choose to categorise, factionalise and alienate with such snippets as above. Do you think that if car drivers were facing a similar battle, they would segregate into Ford versus Holden camps?

I personally believe that this particular protest action was poorly conceived, and doomed to fail from the start. The initial proposal would give no detail, other that dark mutterings about physical intimidation and law-breaking. This appears to have alienated the majority.

The actual reality, which simply involved quietly meeting somewhere to perform perversions on an effigy, appears to have disillusioned many of those few prepared to turn up.

Time for some fresh thinking, perhaps...

I had an Epiphany just before and started a thread with a similar frame of mind as some of your post....infact....I like some of your post better than my opener in my thread...so you should copy paste it thier to make my thread look better ;)

[RiderInBlack]

Time for some fresh thinking, perhaps...2010 BRONZ AGM, Wednesday 21 July 2010 (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/125393-2010-BRONZ-AGM-Wednesday-21-July-2010) (New Thread Started follow LINK (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/125393-2010-BRONZ-AGM-Wednesday-21-July-2010)), might be a good start.

[MSTRS]

It's quite obvious to me that Les's beloved 'hard men' don't exist. If they ever did. And if they ever did, chances are they'd have opted out of protest anyway, by the simple expedient that they do (did) their own thing. They'd just refuse to pay their rego/levy and get on with life.
As for the various factions within motorcycling...the clubs, interest groups etc...it is also obvious that their leaders(?) aren't interested in resisting changes/increases to ACC. Trying to reach their members through them is an exercise in futility.
The only thing that will get the word out is targetting ALL bikers as individuals. And that means saturation advertising in the media. Who can pay for that?

[bogan]

Bogan.....he's saying...stop falling off ya bikes...and it will get cheaper. simple ;)

yes i realise that :rolleyes:, but do you think they will bring the biker levies down again if we do? I seriously doubt it. And not till 2019 because we have to catch up to full funding.

[Katman]

yes i realise that :rolleyes:, but do you think they will bring the biker levies down again if we do? I seriously doubt it. And not till 2019 because we have to catch up to full funding.

They possibly won't bring the levies down but it might well make them think twice before putting them up further.

(I hope you don't think we've heard the last of levy increases).

[MSTRS]

It's quite obvious to me that Les's beloved 'hard men' don't exist. If they ever did. And if they ever did, chances are they'd have opted out of protest anyway, by the simple expedient that they do (did) their own thing. They'd just refuse to pay their rego/levy and get on with life.
As for the various factions within motorcycling...the clubs, interest groups etc...it is also obvious that their leaders(?) aren't interested in resisting changes/increases to ACC. Trying to reach their members through them is an exercise in futility.
The only thing that will get the word out is targetting ALL bikers as individuals. And that means saturation advertising in the media. Who can pay for that?

In fact, perhaps the time has come to stop with the bikes angle. Combine forces with other lobby groups and regain the numbers are strength thing.
Nothing to stop another BIKEOI! for our own particular ACC issues. But for ongoing lobby/protest/exposure...drop the bikes.

[Katman]

drop the bikes.

I think that's what has brought us to where we are now.

:whistle:

[outlawtorn]

I reckon it would be really great if everyone who has posted their opinion on this topic actually got round to a meeting....basically I'm saying pull yer finger out and give BRONZ a hand, remember BRONZ is a handful of dedicated bikers trying their damndest to accurately and fairly represent your best interests.

Come on guys, less bitchin and more thoughtful suggestions, if we are to make any difference at all we need to think, act and move forward collectively!
Cheers
John

[mashman]

I reckon it would be really great if everyone who has posted their opinion on this topic actually got round to a meeting....basically I'm saying pull yer finger out and give BRONZ a hand, remember BRONZ is a handful of dedicated bikers trying their damndest to accurately and fairly represent your best interests.

Come on guys, less bitchin and more thoughtful suggestions, if we are to make any difference at all we need to think, act and move forward collectively!
Cheers
John

Well said. and in that spirit... the boyracers (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/7474006/mayor-harassed-by-boy-racers-again/)have tried an idea out on the mayor of Christchurch that i'd have liked to have tried on tricky nicky

[Katman]

Well said. and in that spirit... the boyracers (http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/top-stories/7474006/mayor-harassed-by-boy-racers-again/)have tried an idea out on the mayor of Christchurch that i'd have liked to have tried on tricky nicky

Did you read the comments below that article?

The general public have had enough of boy racers and are insisting that something is done to get rid of them.

And you'd like to emulate the boy racers actions?:weird:

[MSTRS]

Did you read the comments below that article?

The general public have had enough of boy racers and are insisting that something is done to get rid of them.


The public tend to be just as stupid...

Natural selection will take care of the problem. They, all due to inexperience, will eventually crash and kill or hurt themselves and the numbers will dwindle accordingly.
WTF? There is an endless supply of innocents that they can and do, take out. Plus, an endless supply of younger ones joining the ranks to keep the mayhem going.
The logic behind that person's comment may be better applied to bikers (who are generally the ones that are killed when (anything) goes wrong) YET I don't see our numbers dwindling either...

[MSTRS]

Did you read the comments below that article?

The general public have had enough of boy racers and are insisting that something is done to get rid of them.


The public tend to be just as stupid...

Natural selection will take care of the problem. They, all due to inexperience, will eventually crash and kill or hurt themselves and the numbers will dwindle accordingly.
WTF? There is an endless supply of innocents that they can and do, take out. Plus, an endless supply of younger ones joining the ranks to keep the mayhem going.
The logic behind that person's comment may be better applied to bikers (who are generally the ones that are killed when (anything) goes wrong) YET I don't see our numbers dwindling either...

[Katman]

The public tend to be just as stupid...



Yep, but they've got the weight of numbers on their side.

[mashman]

Did you read the comments below that article?

The general public have had enough of boy racers and are insisting that something is done to get rid of them.

And you'd like to emulate the boy racers actions?:weird:

Not exactly what I was thinking about... the general public are fed up with boy racers hooning about the place... they were protesting against a law that stops them from driving where they like... it also got SOME FUCKING PUBLICITY, well just publicity... we're protesting, well some of us, about the abuse of the ACC health care system and the fact that Joe Q is being stiffed so that the government can cook the books to suit their own agenda... subtle differences KM... i was tipping my hat in regards to the action taken by people "we" like to villify... ironic eh!

[yachtie10]

I reckon it would be really great if everyone who has posted their opinion on this topic actually got round to a meeting....basically I'm saying pull yer finger out and give BRONZ a hand, remember BRONZ is a handful of dedicated bikers trying their damndest to accurately and fairly represent your best interests.

Come on guys, less bitchin and more thoughtful suggestions, if we are to make any difference at all we need to think, act and move forward collectively!
Cheers
John

+1
I am guilty of this (but I have excuses)
The only way things will change is if a lot of people are willing to get off there arses and make a positve contribution
whinging about what other people have done doesnt get us any where.
Lets have some positive ideas

I am talking about the levies (not about national vs labour)
my personal belief is that nothing will change because New Zealanders are to apathetic to get out in numbers to make a difference
I have been to every protest (including yesterday and Wellington) and apart from Wellington we seem to lack numbers required to achieve anything.

The only other way I see forward is to lobby effectively with the Media on the facts. Unfortunately I dont know how to achieve this. If anyone does I am in for any help I can

I also want to give thanks to those who have organised the protests at least you made an effort

[MSTRS]

The only other way I see forward is to lobby effectively with the Media on the facts. Unfortunately I dont know how to achieve this.

Neither do I. I've had 10 letters published in the local paper. Not one of them has sparked any kind of exchange, nor did the paper do any sort of expose or investigative journalism. The media is as apathetic as their readers.

[retro asian]

Proof that those who turned up yesterday actually are hard men (and women):

(Look at the f%$#-ing big puddle !!!)


http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/jammasterjames2/bikedocking01.jpg


http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i219/jammasterjames2/bikedocking02.jpg

[jamfig]

Proof that those who turned up yesterday actually are hard men (and women):

(Look at the f%$#-ing big puddle !!!)

hey wheres the photo of me at the gates to HELL!!!!!!!!! lol :headbang:

[Brian d marge]

Plus three

Some people just need their heads banged together and to STFU

If any of you have had ANY experience with government departments then you will know that numbers count BIG TIME ( or media exposure , but as is a state owned Enterprise , Im not holding my breath )

Les , may not be holey agreed with , may not be the most photogenic , and has admitted to liking the odd two stoke

BUT HIS THE ONLY ONE WE HAVE GOT

So

Be quiet , and join the protest rides ,

OR

ACC WILL BE GONE

Stephen

[miloking]

I guess similar things will happen to us if we protest the ACC leveis too much....http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3863394/Cabbies-fined-for-tooting-their-horns-in-protest

All i can say is fuck the motherfucking cops!

[Point n Shot]

OK guys, the ACC hike is tomorrow. Are we just sit on our collective butts and take it laying down as the NZ public are used to doing. Or, has something being done by the major bike groups? Next they will be making us put number plates on our front guards as they used to. We need to make another stand ( a lot louder)

[outlawtorn]

OK guys, the ACC hike is tomorrow. Are we just sit on our collective butts and take it laying down as the NZ public are used to doing. Or, has something being done by the major bike groups? Next they will be making us put number plates on our front guards as they used to. We need to make another stand ( a lot louder)

Dude, where have you been for the past year? We (BRONZ) have done heaps and will still continue to fight the hikes in one way or another....join your local BRONZ chapter and help with the fight!

[DEVVIL]

OK guys, the ACC hike is tomorrow. Are we just sit on our collective butts and take it laying down as the NZ public are used to doing. Or, has something being done by the major bike groups? Next they will be making us put number plates on our front guards as they used to. We need to make another stand ( a lot louder)

November protest is on (Wellington) lets make some noise!!!!

[NONONO]

Dude, where have you been for the past year? We (BRONZ) have done heaps and will still continue to fight the hikes in one way or another....join your local BRONZ chapter and help with the fight!

Sorry mate, don't mean to be divisive, but what exactly have "We" (Bronz) done heaps of over the last year?
Decided at meetings to support, or not, protests arranged by others?
BRONZ need to drop the "we don't represent bikers, we represent motorcycling" tag to be effective in this. Cos Nick and Judge ain't screwing motorcycling, they are screwing bikers.

[Reckless]

OK guys, the ACC hike is tomorrow. Are we just sit on our collective butts and take it laying down as the NZ public are used to doing. Or, has something being done by the major bike groups? Next they will be making us put number plates on our front guards as they used to. We need to make another stand ( a lot louder)


November protest is on (Wellington) lets make some noise!!!!

Look I didn't mean to put a damper on your enthusiasm but the way I see it Bronze was calling for some more aggressive action with this last protest. Probably as a gauge to how keen everyone was. And as far as the comments I've read on here ( because I'm one of the slack bastards that didn't turn up) it went fizz. Bikers aren't turning out. What do they do they seem to be hamstrung by lack off attendance!


BRONZ need to drop the "we don't represent bikers, we represent motorcycling" tag to be effective in this. Cos Nick and Judge ain't screwing motorcycling, they are screwing bikers.

Mate same as above how can they represent bikers when only 242 bikers are willing to front up with their $20 bucks membership!

But hey if Bronze represents bikers like me, that post on threads, don't go to the meetings or turn up to every protest ride, are unhappy to pay but to busy to get off there asses and still trundle off to grudgingly pay there rego! Its not their fault they are pissing into the wind its MINE!!!

[SpankMe]

Look I didn't mean to put a damper on your enthusiasm but the way I see it Bronze was calling for some more aggressive action with this last protest. Probably as a gauge to how keen everyone was. And as far as the comments I've read on here ( because I'm one of the slack bastards that didn't turn up) it went fizz. Bikers aren't turning out. What do they do they seem to be hamstrung by lack off attendance!

Bikers can't turn up if they don't know about the protest. I only found out about it a couple of days before the event. They need to advertise their events better.

[Squiggles]

Sorry mate, don't mean to be divisive, but what exactly have "We" (Bronz) done heaps of over the last year?

You a member or just jumping on the bandwagon?

[NONONO]

You a member or just jumping on the bandwagon?

FFS, what bandwagon?
And yes, I'm a member, but probably not going to renew.
My point is this, if, as we keep being told, BRONZ represents motorcycling and not bikers then what's the point of a biker being a member?
Bikers Rights Organisation New Zealand....maybe a name change to accuratly reflect the focus of the organisation?
Motorcycle Rights Organisation New Zealand.....
"Motorcycling" does not give a flying shit about it's rights.
BRONZ does not represent motorcyclists.
As Les pointed out, a very large percentage of bikers don't give a toss for BRONZ and have thier own representing bodies.
Erm..WTF?
Bandwagon? My arse.

[nosebleed]

Frankly this whole event was a mashup.
Les stated on here that his intention here was to gauge the feeling of bikers outside of KB, and the way I read it, he didn't want KB'ers along fudging his numbers.

The whole subtefuge angle was too bizaare for me anyway.

Then we're reminded that the Bikers Rights Organisation represents motorcycling not motorcyclists, whatever that means.

The result? Too many mixed messages so I invested my minimal time off, elsewhere.

[Squiggles]

FFS, what bandwagon?
And yes, I'm a member, but probably not going to renew.
My point is this, if, as we keep being told, BRONZ represents motorcycling and not bikers then what's the point of a biker being a member?
Bikers Rights Organisation New Zealand....maybe a name change to accuratly reflect the focus of the organisation?
Motorcycle Rights Organisation New Zealand.....
"Motorcycling" does not give a flying shit about it's rights.
BRONZ does not represent motorcyclists.
As Les pointed out, a very large percentage of bikers don't give a toss for BRONZ and have thier own representing bodies.
Erm..WTF?
Bandwagon? My arse.

As a member you can set the direction for the organisation...

[NONONO]

As a member you can set the direction for the organisation...

Priceless........

[jamov13]

As a fairly new bloke to motorcycling I think I have a fairly even perspective. I really feel for the biking fraternity as you and I are being set up for a right shafting.



... BRONZ represents motorcycling and not bikers then what's the point of a biker being a member?
Bikers Rights Organisation New Zealand....maybe a name change to accurately reflect the focus of the organisation?
Motorcycle Rights Organisation New Zealand.....
"Motorcycling" does not give a flying shit about it's rights.
BRONZ does not represent motorcyclists.


NONONO is right. BRONZ indeed appears to be an acronym for bikers rights. This aside and supposing they had a different name, they absolutely need to be helping the bikers at this time (as do all other motorcycle groups and organisations). Even if the particular group has no interest in our specific problem they should be totally behind us - when it's them behind the gun we should reciprocate - that's how it works. When the heat comes on it's unity that gets the desired results.




As Les pointed out, a very large percentage of bikers don't give a toss for BRONZ and have thier own representing bodies.


This may be true but a larger percentage don't know what/who BRONZ are. Excuse my ignorance but my friends and I only have a basic idea of what they stand for. I bet the general public have no clue.

Out of interest, where does BRONZ draw its constituency from? Surely the day to day commuter and weekend enthusiast are a large part of this. If that's true then really - who in the motorcycling arena are BRONZ backing?




Bikers can't turn up if they don't know about the protest. I only found out about it a couple of days before the event. They need to advertise their events better.


A major hurdle to over come is gathering numbers and uniting the collective for the period of the dispute. This forum is excellent and a credit to the guys who maintain it. However I suggest that there's a country of bikers out there who are pissed about Nick's changes and can therefore be rounded up. Unfortunately loads of the guys I work and ride with have pretty limited computer skill's or just don't use them - somehow they need to be reached outside of the interweb-box (I'm still thinking as to the best means). Which ever it'll take a well run highly organised group just like BRONZ to do this rounding up and won't be easy.


I'm not a member of BRONZ, nor are my mates. When we don't see BRONZ proactively supporting bikers they lose our respect and the prospect of us being future members grows slim. So does the desire to support other issues we don't care so much about.

No matter whether BRONZ (and all other motorcycle related groups) support motorcycling, racing, commuting, weekend rides, motorX...whatever. They all share a collective...the motorcycle. If for nothing else but for this reason alone, when any of the collective are in trouble or require assistance we ALL need to back the issue and show unity.

Band together fellas - Only then can we fight a Gov.

[NONONO]

Nice post Jamov, but it's a bit late as the shafting's already happened and the next round of shafting is just round the corner.
Hope you don't let my ranting stop you and your mates signing up with BRONZ or any other organisation new or old.
Just a cynical old bastard who's having a rough year (but thankful that it's not as rough as some are having).
This whole thing is much more than just bikers, it's about a fundamental change in how we live our lives here.
Get informed and get active.
Good luck.

[outlawtorn]

Maybe it might just be a good idea to not bother with BRONZ at all, and to sit on my lazy fucking arse like most of the bikers out there and bitch like a baby at the levies but be completely prepared to do sweet fuck all about it!

If you are unhappy, get of your lazy arse and attend your local BRONZ chapter meetings, it is not rocket science people! With more support and numbers we have more effect and presence! Why the fuck does this need to be said over and over again? People are so very quick to jump up and say we aren't doing anything, or what we are doing is not right, yet they themselves are not prepared to pull their finger out and help!

If you don't like what Les is doing, put yourself in his shoes and stand for president of BRONZ, if you want to help, have a say and contribute, then join a local chapter. But for fucks sake please don't do anything, and then bitch and moan about how we are getting screwed.

[bogan]

If you don't like what Les is doing, put yourself in his shoes and stand for president of BRONZ, if you want to help, have a say and contribute, then join a local chapter. But for fucks sake please don't do anything, and then bitch and moan about how we are getting screwed.

some of us aren't cut out to do the whole leadership thing (and too far away to go to any meets), so we leave it to bronz, who imo needs to sort their shit out, many people didn't even know about the last protest, and even fewer knew what was happening. Bikers who are against the ACC levy increases (which is pretty much all of us) need to be provided with simple instructions of where to go, when to be there, and far in advance so we can spread the word out. Surely that is the best way to get big numbers? Perhaps a way of getting those who aren't on the same wavelength as to the best way to lobby tptb would be to encourage speakers from all perspectives to speak at a gathering. Is it a coincidence all of those elements were present at the bikeoi? I think not.

[Squiggles]

we leave it to bronz

You leave it to a handful of us.

[jeffs]

I watched this thread for a few days before the planned protest.

I did not go because the planning was so cryptic I did not under what was going on.

Was the plan to do something legal or illegal ?
Was the plan to promote the bikers view or shout at the unjust ACC ?
Was the plan to show that some bikers take safety seriously ?
Was it just a day out on our bikes riding with friends ?
Was this deliberately cryptic in an attempt to hype the protest to get press interest?

For me it ticked non the boxes above, so I was confused and did not go.

Nor did any of my other biker friends, because when I told them there was a planned protest, I could not explain
what it was about.

I have been on several Protests with Bronz, but do not intend on becoming a member.
Not because I disrespect them, quite the opposite, they have at least kept active over the ACC increases.

I just don't understand them anymore.

Sorry :(

[RiderInBlack]

If you are unhappy, get of your lazy arse and attend your local BRONZ chapter meetings, it is not rocket science people! With more support and numbers we have more effect and presence! Why the fuck does this need to be said over and over again? People are so very quick to jump up and say we aren't doing anything, or what we are doing is not right, yet they themselves are not prepared to pull their finger out and help!

If you don't like what Les is doing, put yourself in his shoes and stand for president of BRONZ, if you want to help, have a say and contribute, then join a local chapter. But for fucks sake please don't do anything, and then bitch and moan about how we are getting screwed.And to show ya how little interest we are showing in that idea just go to
2010 BRONZ AGM, Wednesday 21 July 2010 (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/125393-2010-BRONZ-AGM-Wednesday-21-July-2010) . I started that thread so that I might get to know the candidates better (was nothing on the BRONZ web site, not even the date for the AGM on the Event Calender), and to see if anyone was going to the AGM. Only 2 posts and they are both mine. Obviously we don't care enough, and those that will get elected will be chosen from the very few the can make it there.

[bogan]

You leave it to a handful of us.

yeh, isn't that how bronz works, theres a bunch of people doing the work? I'm not sure what your point is :confused:

[jamov13]

...This whole thing is much more than just bikers, it's about a fundamental change in how we live our lives here.
Get informed and get active.
Good luck.

There's nothing wrong with being a cynical old bastard from time to time!

I couldn't agree more, NZers are far too docile. I was watching the 1080 protests on the news again. I know what it really does to our wildlife and DOC have some answering to do so I support the protesting the coasters are putting up. I'm not sure how we flip the switch on the country but it needs doing (sooner rather than later).

For those who think we're lazy bastards for not holding your hands at BRONZ meetings please bare in mind that this is not the only injustice going on right now. I understand your sentiments completely though. I'm personally involved to my eye balls in organisations that really return little to me and yes it's with sweet FA help from those that should be. Good on BRONZ and all the guys that are putting the effort in.

Unfortunately I don't have the answers about how to get everyone involved - One thing for sure though, abusing anyone in a forum probably isn't going to drum up too much support.

[outlawtorn]

There's nothing wrong with being a cynical old bastard from time to time!

I couldn't agree more, NZers are far too docile. I was watching the 1080 protests on the news again. I know what it really does to our wildlife and DOC have some answering to do so I support the protesting the coasters are putting up. I'm not sure how we flip the switch on the country but it needs doing (sooner rather than later).

For those who think we're lazy bastards for not holding your hands at BRONZ meetings please bare in mind that this is not the only injustice going on right now. I understand your sentiments completely though. I'm personally involved to my eye balls in organisations that really return little to me and yes it's with sweet FA help from those that should be. Good on BRONZ and all the guys that are putting the effort in.

Unfortunately I don't have the answers about how to get everyone involved - One thing for sure though, abusing anyone in a forum probably isn't going to drum up too much support.

Yeah mate, you are bang on right! My little rant was out of order and I apologise for that, I reckon I am just frustrated at the whole thing. Kinda feels like no matter what we do we are powerless.

[Hitcher]

Mr Smith is watching us. One suspects he's having a damned good laugh.

[Phreak]

Mr Smith is watching us. One suspects he's having a damned good laugh.

Highly likely.

Has anyone (that went to the BRONZ protest) received any reply for their yellow mailers?

[MadDuck]

Maybe it might just be a good idea to not bother with BRONZ at all, and to sit on my lazy fucking arse like most of the bikers out there and bitch like a baby at the levies but be completely prepared to do sweet fuck all about it!

Lets clear something up here ok? The Auckland protest rides have NOT been organised by BRONZ Auckland and in fact they distanced themselves from the rides. Although they did send out notice to their members (well the lucky ones anyway)....thats all they have done since November. These rides have been organised by a group of bikers using KB as a means to get the message out.

YES some of us got off our arses at huge cost in time, energy and money.......and done something and will continue to do so.

[Drogen Omen]

seems our efforts to stop acc levies going ahead have failed...

they got introduced on 1st July... :(

running all 3 of my bikes with no rego... haven't been pulled over yet...

[Katman]

seems our efforts to stop acc levies going ahead have failed...
they got introduced on 1st July... :(


Fuck, did they? We should protest.

[Maha]

Lets clear something up here ok? The Auckland protest rides have NOT been organised by BRONZ Auckland and in fact they distanced themselves from the rides. Although they did send out notice to their members (well the lucky ones anyway)....thats all they have done since November. These rides have been organised by a group of bikers using KB as a means to get the message out.

YES some of us got off our arses at huge cost in time, energy and money.......and done something and will continue to do so.

Clear and concise message there MD.....:yes:

seems our efforts to stop acc levies going ahead have failed...

they got introduced on 1st July... :(

running all 3 of my bikes with no rego... haven't been pulled over yet...

Dont think the thought of stopping the incease all together was ever on the agenda.

[mashman]

Maybe we're going to get a discount after all... just saw on the news that businesses can get up to 50% off... Agent Smith was there... we must be due a discount too :)

[Katman]

Maybe we're going to get a discount after all... just saw on the news that businesses can get up to 50% off... Agent Smith was there... we must be due a discount too :)

Well that's gotta be an incentive to start cleaning up our own back yard.

[Baldy]

:Punk:wot does it mean, less riding time, registering yr bike every 3months instead of 12:angry: hey rsole ive got 650cc i now have to pay $515 inclusive 2 lots of acc:angry::angry: baldy