Min of Ed want every high school student to have a cell phone at school

[PrincessBandit]

Taken from the interdweeb this afternoon.

"Education bosses want every high school student armed with a cellphone to prepare them for a digital future, but a mother who lost her son to text bullying is appalled.
Teenager Daniel Gillies died after receiving vindictive texts about a facial disfigurement. His mother, Helen Algar, says they bring a culture of bullying that schools need to tackle before all students are made to carry them.
She wants students to embrace technology, but says schools have not yet managed to stamp out text bullying.
His mum says technology is clearly here to stay but it must be monitored carefully, or it will add to students' stress levels and play on their insecurities.
Many schools now ban cellphones because of the threat of bullying and inappropriate use. Some have raised concerns as they grapple with students using phones to bully, send abusive texts and pictures, arrange fights, and post from their phones to online sites.
But Education Ministry e-learning unit manager Howard Baldwin says digital devices will "massively increase" within five years.
The ministry was already funding an Auckland pilot programme where phones were compulsory and wants them used everywhere - although it will leave it up to schools to make that call.
Baldwin's unit was developing digital- device guidelines for schools and would work with schools to find the device that best suited them.
Concerns about costs were irrelevant because partnerships between providers and schools would likely be set up to buy them for students, and the majority of students had a cellphone.
"We will move away from the pen and paper world," Baldwin says.
He said portable devices like smartphones or stripped-down computers would be standard within five years."


I'm all for moving with the times, and digital is certainly looking to be the way of the future, but wonder just what the ramifications will be in the long term. We already have generations of kids who can barely spell or put a sentence together with passable grammar. Will we become a species who can no longer physically write (as opposed to typing and thumbing in text) further down the track?

[vindy500]

Will we become a species who can no longer physically write (as opposed to typing and thumbing in text) further down the track?

is that so bad? how many people can carve text onto stone tablets these days?

[schrodingers cat]

I think the Min of Ed are already doing a fine job or preparing the youth of today to be perfect consumers.

Cell phone addiction is a great way to keep a trickle of money flowing to large offshore owed corporations.

[Gubb]

Bullying is gonna happen no matter what, it'll never be "stamped out". Text Bullying or regular biffo is always gonna happen, particularly with things as unfortunate as facial disfigurements. And scaremongering because is this is pretty pathetic IMHO.

If you don't educate on things like this, all that will happen is create a wider gap between students. Those with cell phones and access to technology probably don't need this teaching, whereas those without access to it, it's probably giving them a slightly more even chance later in life.

[PrincessBandit]

is that so bad? how many people can carve text onto stone tablets these days?

Touche! A valid point. Evolution is alive and well.

[Blackshear]

Taken from the interdweeb this afternoon.

[I]We already have generations of kids who can barely spell or put a sentence together with passable grammar.

It's a good thing that NCEA allows txtspk then, isn't it?

[Headbanger]

I stopped hand writing many years ago, get rid of it I say.

[Blackshear]

I stopped hand writing many years ago, get rid of it I say.

Same here. Last time I used a pen must've been writing out my job application form.
That was 7 months ago.
Just make sure your phone/computer/faggotPad has a physical keyboard. You don't know how much you'll miss it when you have a touchscreen keyboard for everything.

[CookMySock]

What amazes me, is I am unable to receive a copy of my teen kids txts. Why not? Cellphones and txting is the new freedom, where your 13 y/o daughter may organise anything she likes behind your back.



Steve

[p.dath]

What are they hoping to gain by making cell phones compulsory? Are they also going to mandate with cellular carrier and call plan you are on as well?

[crazyhorse]

Yeah, but this generation can't add either - they need a calculator. There are still some things like spelling and addition that kids need to learn without the aid of something that gives you the answer or can correct the spelling for you if they want.

times really have changed alot

[Smifffy]

How many kids year 10 and over do any of you personally know that don't have a cell phone now?

[Headbanger]

Yeah, but this generation can't add either - they need a calculator. There are still some things like spelling and addition that kids need to learn without the aid of something that gives you the answer or can correct the spelling for you if they want.

times really have changed alot

I don't trust anyone who doesn't run their numbers through a calculator, Grey hairs are no exception.

[crazyhorse]

I don't trust anyone who doesn't run their numbers through a calculator, Grey hairs are no exception.

Yeah, but they can still add it wrong. If they don't understand how to add, why then would you trust them to add it with a calculator. But I do agree, double checking in that respect is a good idea.

[Blackshear]

Yeah, but they can still add it wrong. If they don't understand how to add, why then would you trust them to add it with a calculator. But I do agree, double checking in that respect is a good idea.

Just pray they don't come across a problem long enough to warrant BEDMAS.
Looks like now is the time to take out a degree in accounting.

[PrincessBandit]

Yeah, but they can still add it wrong. If they don't understand how to add, why then would you trust them to add it with a calculator. But I do agree, double checking in that respect is a good idea.

What makes me laugh is the situation where, in a shop for example, the thing is rung up on a till incorrectly but they accept the answer because that's what the machine tells them. You, as the old fogey, are able to point out to them that it's incorrect (you did the equation in your head, even if it was only an approximation). They're astounded when the answer you gave them magically comes up when they operate the machine correctly this time!

[crazyhorse]

Just pray they don't come across a problem long enough to warrant BEDMAS.
Looks like now is the time to take out a degree in accounting.

Accounting doesn't teach someone how to add - teaches bookwork and balancing of accounts and what you can screw the tax department for

[crazyhorse]

What makes me laugh is the situation where, in a shop for example, the thing is rung up on a till incorrectly but they accept the answer because that's what the machine tells them. You, as the old fogey, are able to point out to them that it's incorrect (you did the equation in your head, even if it was only an approximation). They're astounded when the answer you gave them magically comes up when they operate the machine correctly this time!

ANd they also rely on the till to work out how much change they need to give back. They don't even know how to count the change back the old fashioned way

[FJRider]

What makes me laugh is the situation where ...

Or when they are using an older style till (or in a power cut so the till doesn't work) and they can't give change because they can't work out how much to give ...

[MsKABC]

Banning cell phones is unrealistic, unreasonable, and not enforceable. It's hard enough stopping them from using them in the classroom, let alone the playground. There are enough things for teachers to have to worry about today (like declining standards of behaviour), without giving them another thing to police.

[Neshi]

ANd they also rely on the till to work out how much change they need to give back. They don't even know how to count the change back the old fashioned way

that was what astounded me when I came here and bought my first things in the store.. Nobody counts the change back, they just chuck it in your hands and there you go :O
In holland the ones working the till were required to count back (as a safety measure for yourself for not giving too much change accidentaly as well) , if you couldn't do it you had to learn it.. fast.


Can't wrap my head around the fact the bullied boy in the opening post didn't just change his phonenumber if he was having that much grief with the texts he was getting.. be more careful who you give your number to..

[Babelfish]

The woman who's kid was text bullied to death is just another mourning parent who needs to shut the fuck up and mourn without thinking the country wants to hear her bleating. Dont get me wrong, bullying is fucked, but its never changed and the ignorance of the bitch in terms of technology always makes me pity her more.

The only thing I pity more than her ignorance is the ignorance of turning around and making cellphones compulsory in school. Oh dear god I can imagine the look of faux innovation in everyone's face when that came up in a min edu meeting. Not one of them would have completely grasped the enormity of implementing that.

I think they should stick to fucking up what they currently do (going by recent reports) before jumping into the complexities of personal devices for each student.

[crazyhorse]

that was what astounded me when I came here and bought my first things in the store.. Nobody counts the change back, they just chuck it in your hands and there you go :O
In holland the ones working the till were required to count back (as a safety measure for yourself for not giving too much change accidentaly as well) , if you couldn't do it you had to learn it.. fast.

My Mum was dutch and her multiplication and division astounded me. That is somethiing that I'll never forget about her and I agree, kids just don't count back properly or at all

[Babelfish]

The other thing to note here is that most people have attached the cell phones in schools to mathmatical implications. Of more worry will be gramatical, as we've already turfed so many words in favour of txt speak.

[Headbanger]

The other thing to note here is that most people have attached the cell phones in schools to mathmatical implications. Of more worry will be gramatical, as we've already turfed so many words in favour of txt speak.

Yeah, because as a language evolves (and they all evolve or die) then the planet runs out of oxygen.

People will use what works best, why shouldn't they?

Because the new way is different from the old way?

Oh the horror of realising you're not important in the great scheme of things.

[Babelfish]

Yeah, because as a language evolves (and they all evolve or die) then the planet runs out of oxygen.

People will use what works best, why shouldn't they?

Because the new way is different from the old way?

Oh the horror of realising you're not important in the great scheme of things.

0 yeh u r rite, i wll rmber tht n 4 nxt time

[rie]

Basically, schools have no right to demand parents to provide things for their kids that is unrelated to the curriculum. I don't see what cellphones have to do with any aspect of the school's business of schooling.

[Neshi]

indeed.. it just provides extra costs for parents and the wealth gap will become only larger.. as kids with expensive cellphones looking down on / bullying the ones with less expensive ones..

[imdying]

People will use what works best, why shouldn't they?Because it doesn't work best.

[Headbanger]

Because it doesn't work best.

Obviously for that group and for what they are using it for, It best suits their purposes.

To say otherwise just puts you in a different group, and who are you to tell them it doesn't suit them or their use?

[Babelfish]

indeed.. it just provides extra costs for parents and the wealth gap will become only larger.. as kids with expensive cellphones looking down on / bullying the ones with less expensive ones..

This is what I meant about the enormity of implenting cellphones to all kids. Technical considerations, school logistics, parental impacts...no small fete. I dont hold any hope on this having been in any way covered off within a feasability study before they shot off their mouth.

Just today one of my team had their daughter text them from within a class to get the answer to a test.

[imdying]

Obviously for that group and for what they are using it for, It best suits their purposes.I agree with that, for their group it's all good. But he was talking about the implications of encouraging the use of txtish by cell phones being used in schools, which will then carry into the workplace where it will be of no use... not that they'll know because they will lack the communication skills required to get a job.

[The Pastor]

what benefit do cellphones add to the classroom? I can't see any. I can only see negatives to having cellphones compulsory in school.

[Headbanger]

I agree with that, for their group it's all good. But he was talking about the implications of encouraging the use of txtish by cell phones being used in schools, which will then carry into the workplace where it will be of no use... not that they'll know because they will lack the communication skills required to get a job.

Is that really the case though? That we have produced or are producing an entire generation of extremely stupid kids, unable to not only add but understand the concept, unable to spell,unable to communicate to the level even to get employment?

I call bullshit, There have always been a percentage of stupid bastards, a percentage of gifted twats, and everyone else sits somewhere in the middle.

The Government have claimed that the level of education is higher then it has ever been in the past, Sure they also talk shit but I haven't seen any credible attack on that claim.

That aside, My boy has been at school for a year, He can read at the level he is expected to, he understands the concept of addition and suntraction and can do it at the expected level.

Getting a cell phone isn't going top alter his education for better or for worse, Not that he is getting one any time soon.


And I expect the staff in most shops to be stupid, thats who those jobs are for.

[imdying]

You can't even manage to work out where to use a capital letter, so I'm not putting a lot of faith in your assessment of your boy.

[Headbanger]

You can't even manage to work out where to use a capital letter, so I'm not putting a lot of faith in your assessment of your boy.

Poor criteria to base your conclusion on, especially as that wasn't the point of my post. Though it does demonstrate the weakness of your position.

[imdying]

No, it shows how little faith I have in getting intelligent debate on communication from somebody who is so demonstratively terrible at it.

You're looking for evidence when we haven't even had a generation of people brought up on txtish to get a result set from. But gee, there's no firm evidence of it being a problem yet, so why bother doing anything now... let's ignore the anecdotal evidence and wait for it to become a problem, much better idea :rolleyes:

[Headbanger]

No, it shows how little faith I have in getting intelligent debate on communication from somebody who is so demonstratively terrible at it.


Saves you from actually contesting anything put forward then aye?

Is that really the best you have?

You been shown to have nothing so you bring up something petty, unrelated, pointless, and then claim you're above it.

LMFAO. Piss weak.

Its just another case where insecure people put themselves on a pedestal and then try and ridicule others by picking up on petty diiferences to justify their delusions, The youngsters and their use of txt is an easy target for these weak minded people.

If all someone has to make themselves superiour is being a spelling pendant or making an issue about counting back change then its pretty laughable and pathetic. Even more so when they use this unjustified position to condemn an entire generation.

[imdying]

Ah huh, and when did I've never seen any problems become a valid rebuttal? Oh wait, you've seen a 5 year old that you think is doing alright, all must be well for the literacy standards in NZ :rolleyes:

[Headbanger]

Ah huh, and when did I've never seen any problems become a valid rebuttal? Oh wait, you've seen a 5 year old that you think is doing alright, all must be well for the literacy standards in NZ :rolleyes:

Nah, we're done. You lose.

[imdying]

Nah, we're done. You lose.Hypocrite :rolleyes:

[Smifffy]

Nah, we're done. You lose.

Everybody loses. But that's ok, cos we all win and nobody fails.

[Babelfish]

Kids already use a large amount of technology in schools (some schools) with micro pc's becoming more prevelant. Sure a kid needs to understand using everyday technology in life, but I guess it will come down to how the technology works within the curriculum. Given this is a fresh approach, will this mean a fresh approach to the curriculum? And what is wrong with the current use of cell phones that they need to make such a change?

Headbanger, it's too easy to throw off the old "different things for different groups" approach but this guy (min ed) is talking about it being compulsory in ALL schools. In reality the effort required to implement this would be far beyone the competency of the govt dept in question (dont get me started on their attempt at learning assessments), but they have decided to come out with fancy talk and deserve to be flamed.

I look forward to schools adding a cell phone cost to my fees and expecting me to roll on it. This said, I'll make sure my kids are well aware of the technology and how to use it to best effect before they're starting to use them.

[Headbanger]

Headbanger, it's too easy to throw off the old "different things for different groups" approach but this guy (min ed) is talking about it being compulsory in ALL schools.


Yeah, Its a fucktard idea, thats why I was ignoring it.

[Smifffy]

Yeah, Its a fucktard idea, thats why I was ignoring it.

By the time the fuckwits in the min of ed can come up with a curriculum relevant to digital technology, the technology will have changed, and the kids will already be ahead of the men from the ministry.

Education is too imoportant to allow it to be run by academics.

[SS90]

What amazes me, is I am unable to receive a copy of my teen kids txts. Why not? Cellphones and txting is the new freedom, where your 13 y/o daughter may organise anything she likes behind your back.



Steve


Hang on a minute, she told me she was 17!

[Headbanger]

By the time the fuckwits in the min of ed can come up with a curriculum relevant to digital technology, the technology will have changed, and the kids will already be ahead of the men from the ministry.
.

I would say that something a bit more advanced and more useful but along similar lines as an iphone will become a tool for the masses, and common place as a learning device in schools, it will also be their main communication tool, and that everyone will have one.

Provided we sort out our shithouse telecommunications and the devices are reasonably priced.

Its not a matter of if but when, and they won't be called a cell phone.I also predict txt speak will fade out of use for the majority as screens get bigger and touch-keyboards become common place. A few will still usetxt-speak as they get off having their own cryptic language and it will no doubt become impossible to read for everyone else.

Meanwhile the silly old irrelevant fuckers will moan about shit because its different.

[Pixie]

is that so bad? how many people can carve text onto stone tablets these days?

Th 10 Cmndmnts

1 I m th Lrd yr Gd, hu brt u ot of th lnd of Egpt, ot of th hse of slvry;

2 Dnt hv ny othr gds b4 me.

3 U shl nt mk 4 yrslf n idl, wthr n th frm of nythng tht s n hvn abv, r tht s n th rth bnth, r tht s n th wtr ndr th rth.

Etc.

Gd 4bd

[Babelfish]

Education is too imoportant to allow it to be run by academics.

Shame every senior role in the Min of Ed is taken by teachers and principles then eh?


I would say that something a bit more advanced and more useful but along similar lines as an iphone will become a tool for the masses...it will also be their main communication tool, and that everyone will have one.....I also predict txt speak will fade out...bla bla

Jesus, move over Nostradamus...oh wait....THAT'S ALREADY HAPPENED! :shutup:


Meanwhile the silly old irrelevant fuckers will moan about shit because its different.

Unfortunately their mass makes them relevant but I've yet to realise your point.

[Neshi]

Not all changes to the way things are now is for the better... when are people gonna learn this.

[Headbanger]

Jesus, move over Nostradamus...oh wait....THAT'S ALREADY HAPPENED! :shutup:



No, it hasn't already happened, But thatss what the call for cell phones in schools is heading towards, a digital assistant for all students hooked into a school wide wireless network. Homework, reading material,research media,all the students work all able to be carried with them in a hand held device. Imagine the possibilities and abilities of such a system.

Good bye to text books,exorcise books,reams of paper,hello instant up to date information and vast resources instantly.

Thius device will also be able to send localised texts and phone calls via the school network, and futher afeild via the mobile network if enabled, and of course, take videos,photos,play media and access the internet.


Unfortunately their mass makes them relevant but I've yet to realise your point.

HA.

They are ignored and impotent. as they deserve. Shit changes, always. deal with it....or carry on whining, it matters not which way you go.

[Babelfish]

No, it hasn't already happened...bla bla


Yeah, changed your prediction there somewhat, and while it's a lovely dream Nostradamus it wont be schools that drive it (with the exception of tertiary). It doesnt take much to make such a dream start smelling when trying to implement it, as some posts in this thread point out.


They are ignored and impotent. as they deserve. Shit changes, always. deal with it....or carry on whining, it matters not which way you go

...yeah, I still dont think you have much of a point in the context of responses to this thread without understanding the basis to the comments

[Headbanger]

Yeah, changed your prediction there somewhat,

I expanded on it as you failed to grasp the concept. No surprise there though.

And it will happen, the world is going digital, and the capabilities are too much to ignore, The world of 20 year old text books and pen on paper is already on the way out.

[Tank]

What amazes me, is I am unable to receive a copy of my teen kids txts. Why not? Cellphones and txting is the new freedom, where your 13 y/o daughter may organise anything she likes behind your back.

Is this her: http://www.exclusivepussy.com/rss/ICB65000275/l_h_rss001.jpg

On the bright side - no matter what you are thinking she might be arranging behind your back - she's probably doing something worse. :2thumbsup:2thumbsup:2thumbsup:2thumbsup:2thumbsup

[Headbanger]

...yeah, I still dont think you have much of a point in the context of responses to this thread without understanding the basis to the comments

Your referring to the "can't be done, too hard,we didn't have it in our day brigade"

Personally I can't respect any input that solely consists of why something can't be done, with lttle to no concept of the benifits.

Look at what a current model phone can do, Apart from all the obvious like take notes, video, photos but also display maps and satellite photos on the entire planet, display interactive positional star fields, take you under the ocean. access nearly every work or text ever made.

You can look up the works of Stephen Hawking, watch a video of his presentation, cross reference it with others in the field, look up and participate in debate on his work, hell if you had his number you could ring the man up and video conference with him.

Afterwards you could go on youtube and watch an old man get kicked in the nuts by a cow.

And thats just scratching the surface of current tech, god knows what a $99 device will be capable of in a decade, But lets not write it off as too hard. Have some vision, embrace change. It may well create the most advanced and capable generation ever, Opening up a whole new era for mankind (cue trumpets and starships flying in formation)

[scumdog]

I don't trust anyone who doesn't run their numbers through a calculator, Grey hairs are no exception.

I feel sorry for those that CAN'T do numbers in their heads..grey haired or not

[Squiggles]

No, it hasn't already happened, But thatss what the call for cell phones in schools is heading towards, a digital assistant for all students hooked into a school wide wireless network. Homework, reading material,research media,all the students work all able to be carried with them in a hand held device. Imagine the possibilities and abilities of such a system.

Good bye to text books,exorcise books,reams of paper,hello instant up to date information and vast resources instantly.

Thius device will also be able to send localised texts and phone calls via the school network, and futher afeild via the mobile network if enabled, and of course, take videos,photos,play media and access the internet.

Tis a scary idea for some but thats where its heading so we might as well get a head-start.

[Babelfish]

I expanded on it as you failed to grasp the concept. No surprise there though.

And it will happen, the world is going digital, and the capabilities are too much to ignore, The world of 20 year old text books and pen on paper is already on the way out.

I did grasp your concept, it just seems to take so long to come out...we've gone through about 3 of your paradigm shifts while you've been blabbing on about the same lame stuff. I'm quite aware of where we can get to, and work in an industry that is constantly driving it. But what you are talking about is already here. While you sadly snear at people you think are missing the point, you've missed a large portion of it yourself....at least you're typing has improved a little in the process though.


Your referring to the "can't be done, too hard,we didn't have it in our day brigade"

...nope you were...



Personally I can't respect...bla...can't be done...bla...on the entire planet...bla...take you under the ocean (:shit:)...bla...video conference with him...(deep breath)...bla...get kicked in the nuts by a cow...bla bla...most advanced and capable generation ever, Opening up a whole new era for mankind (cue trumpets and starships flying in formation)

If you'd started that with "I have a dream!" you might have got the oscar. All a great fantasy Headcase, and things we've been doing for years. It'll be great to hear from you when you catch up with current tech and what will ACTUALLY be possible in another decade.

Just because some people dont hold an interest in the advances of technology however, dont disrespect them. There is much to honour lifes simplicities and restrain oneself from thinking such people dull and ignorant.

However, we're talking about the kids, and compulsory cell phones. I thought back in my day at school that by the time I got into work EVERYONE would be computer savvy. Not so. And still at school, not every kid is tech focussed. Compulsory?

School should be preparing kids for tertiary learning or work, not trying to be bleading edge themselves. This isnt to say that experimentation in school shouldn't be prevelant, more to say that such a sweeping compulsory change is short sighted at best. While there are ways to implement such devices as tools within learning, this will be part of natural evolution outside of school. A school is simply not equipped to deal with implementing what seems a simple idea, yet is a very complex undertaking.

I more than anyone want to see technology used as much as possible. I have commited by life to technolgy and pushing change. My point is simply that the ministry of education is again trying to be bleading edge rather than focussing on properly supporting schools in preparing our kids toward their careers.

[Headbanger]

I did grasp your concept

Cool, in which case you had your eyes and your mind opened a little, and I don't need to read the rest of whatever crap you posted, consider it along the same lines as pen and paper are currently compulsory.

And while the idea was floated badly, the concept is sound.

Hail to the future.

[Babelfish]

Cool, in which case you had your eyes and your mind opened a little

Ha ha, by your retardese? Fuck that's like Einstein being tought physics by a Paua.

But it's great that you're enthusiastic, keep up the great effort there Headcase.

[Headbanger]

Ha ha, by your retardese? Fuck that's like Einstein being tought physics by a Paua.

But it's great that you're enthusiastic, keep up the great effort there Headcase.

So you're comparing yourself to Einstein?

pffft.

You're in no more a position to claim to be a genius then you are to be calling anyone names, But after that effort I doubt you can make yourself look any sillier.

Take what you have learned and stfu aye. Good lad.

[Smifffy]

So you're comparing yourself to Einstein?

pffft.

You're in no more a position to claim to be a genius then you are to be calling anyone names, But after that effort I doubt you can make yourself look any sillier.

Take what you have learned and stfu aye. Good lad.

I don't ever recall seeing Einstein use the word 'fuck' in any of his texts, just as I'm sure he knew how to spell "taught". I'd be surprised if he knew what a paua was, much less seek one out as a teacher, but then again he was a smart guy, and recognised that he still had many things to learn from many quarters.

Isaac Newton was taught much about physics by an apple, which some may consider to have even less intelligence than a paua.

[PrincessBandit]

Okay, so I know this is :Offtopic: but it's my thread so what the hell. (Not going to start a new thread since this is still tied up with schools).

Read this morning about a teacher down in Flaxmere (at the kura kaupapa school) who is in the shit over the fact that he lost his rag with his students. Students who have admitted to making a game of baiting him in quite an extreme fashion.

Apparently they said he would start off asking them politely to behave but would go to such extremes to disobey, disrespect and even physically abuse him all in order to get him to lose his temper.

FFS, these are primary school kids! No wonder some of them are such no hopers by the time they reach secondary school age. Those parents must be awfully proud of the way their kids have been taught to behave.......

[mashman]

FFS, these are primary school kids! No wonder some of them are such no hopers by the time they reach secondary school age. Those parents must be awfully proud of the way their kids have been taught to behave.......

I wonder where the kids learned how to behave in such a way... but kids are getting much older much younger and the school system needs to find a way to deal with it... Personally i'd be allowing them more discussion time, let them chat for an hour a day in regards to common issues, something they all share... but that's just 1 idea. Perhaps they'll start viewing their fellow students and teachers in a new light...