What should the open road speed limit be?

[ukusa]

Speed limits/tolerances have been a hot topic lately so though it was about time for another poll. I've looked back and have found other polls on speed, but couldn't find one asking this simple question.
If you were transport minister, what would set the open road speed limit at. That means the speed you would set for the benefit of the country, not for your own benefit.

[Spyke]

My idea would be to set no legal speed limit. Have an advisory safe speed limit for trucks to take corners and use the dangerous driving charge for any silly behaviour on our roads.

[Eyegasm]

My idea would be to set no legal speed limit.

Agreed, let Darwinism deal to everyone...

But really, Why change the speed limit? No one abides by it anyway even knowing the consequences.
Death, Ticket or Vehicular Manslaughter twist the wrist to hard and one or more may apply.

Wanna go fast? Get to the track.

Eyegasm

[yachtie10]

I actually dont think it needs to be raised (could goto 120 in dual carriageways with median)
I just want to see intelligent enforcement
If the conditions are good and its not dangerous then why stop people and ticket them (particularly when passing slow traffic)
conversly if the conditions are bad (road, light, wet etc) or driving dangerously then no tolerance

the main reason not to raise it to much is fuel economy goes down fast as you go faster (resistance is proportional to speed cubed)

[MSTRS]

There really is no one-size-fits-all when it comes to open road speed limits.

Big parts of major state highways could happily be 120kph (or more) - but other parts not.
Too many of our roads are yellow-lined and 80kph.

Speed limits seem to have more to do with driver skills (lack of) than the roads themselves.

[bogan]

tough question, NZ'rs seem to have the speed limit is a speed target mentality, the idea that everyone should be doing the limit (100kmhr) all the time, raising the limit will just result in the same problems at higher speeds, lowering it will too (though at lower speeds). The immediate way to remove this mentality is to remove the speed limits, though of course that will result in carnage.

Think I'm with yachtie, maintain status quo but more intelligent enforcement.

edit: oh, and for those voting 120kmhr, I would refuse to do that speed in my van, fuel economy is already shit, and I don't want to have to thrash it everywhere, so would you enjoy being 'held up' by lots of slower drivers?

[Jantar]

+1 for "Have an advisory safe speed limit". Speeding in itself shouldn't be an offence, but if you cause an accident through going too fast for the conditions, or too fast for your own ability then the offence is either careless (for inattention and misjuding your speed) or dangerous (for deliberately going to fast). Either of the above would almost certainly result in loss of licence for a period, and would provide encouragement to learn how to judge the correct speed for the road and conditions.

[Spearfish]

same limit as the UK with the training to match.

[jeremysprite]

Agreed, let Darwinism deal to everyone...

But really, Why change the speed limit? No one abides by it anyway even knowing the consequences.
Death, Ticket or Vehicular Manslaughter twist the wrist to hard and one or more may apply.

Wanna go fast? Get to the track.

Eyegasm

Yeah agree with this... It could be 120kph in some areas, but a lot of our roads are too poor to handle 120kph. If people want to go stupidly fast (or even sensibly fast?) they do so, come hell or high water.

I would say more training and education would help but... I'm not convinced.

[Bren]

I would agree with some suggestions...120 on dual carriageways ON OUTSIDE LANE...

[Ixion]

120 by day, 80 by night, 150 for less than quarter kilometer if LEGALLY overtaking. And a new offence of "inappropriate speed" for speed over 80 if deemed inappropriate to conditions (charge rebuttable on the bais of facts - visibility, weather, road surface, traffic etc)

[NighthawkNZ]

I can't afford the gas to continuosly go over 120 anymore...

[MSTRS]

I dunno about the bike, but the Commodore reads a tad under 10lt/100km at 100kph and closer to 8lt/100km at 120kph. Draw your own conclusions...

[HenryDorsetCase]

Open = open, your choice, go as fast as you like but be prepared to wear the consequences.

there are sufficient penalties in law to punish miscreants: i.e. careless, reckless or dangerous driving.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I dunno about the bike, but the Commodore reads a tad under 10lt/100km at 100kph and closer to 8lt/100km at 120kph. Draw your own conclusions...

Commodores are shite?

[MSTRS]

Yea whatever...

[bogan]

I dunno about the bike, but the Commodore reads a tad under 10lt/100km at 100kph and closer to 8lt/100km at 120kph. Draw your own conclusions...

in my experience the commonwhores have a pretty smooth slipstream, may be optimized for 120kph travel, or maybe the engine is at a more efficient RPM at 120kph, or maybe you gauge is just fucked.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Yea whatever...

Awwww come on. No bite? not even a leeeedle one?

[AllanB]

Depends on the road.

there are roads that could safely (?) have posted speeds of 120. But I'd have these as a special case road and most would remain 100.

Why you ask?

I keep thinking back to my family holidays - January traveling Christchurch to Kaiteriteri and Easter traveling south to Wanaka - I am constantly amazed at the fools on the road who are incapable of driving in a safe manner at 100 little loan anything higher!

Rules tend to cater for the lowest form of driver so no matter how capable you and your vehicle are there will always be some dick driving like a crazy dog in a piece of unsafe crap.

[AllanB]

in my experience the commonwhores have a pretty smooth slipstream, may be optimized for 120kph travel, or maybe the engine is at a more efficient RPM at 120kph, or maybe you gauge is just fucked.

Nah - 2 cylinders shut off when cruising at 120 so it is only a V4! (Ok I made that up, but I could be true!)

[ukusa]

Yeah agree with this... It could be 120kph in some areas, but a lot of our roads are too poor to handle 120kph. If people want to go stupidly fast (or even sensibly fast?) they do so, come hell or high water.

I would say more training and education would help but... I'm not convinced.

Talking open road limit here would also mean the top speed allowed, for roads that can handle that speed. Any roads not deemed suitable for the top speed would be re-labeled with a lesser limit. eg. Culverden straight could be set at the open road limit, say 120. Hitting the township it's obviiously down to 50, but the hiils after could be speed limited to 100.
So yes, dual carriagways could quite safely handle higher speeds, long straight roads & the like. Narrow roads & windy could have the speed limit lowered.

[avgas]

in my experience the commonwhores have a pretty smooth slipstream, may be optimized for 120kph travel, or maybe the engine is at a more efficient RPM at 120kph, or maybe you gauge is just fucked.
Yes, Yes and No.
When I had my 2003, good econ at 120-125 where it got worse either side.
Tank top up km demonstrated it was accurate (was a work car so all km/L recorded off real figures).

Interesting fact, I got better fuel economy out of the commodore than I did with the 2006 1.8L Viva doing open road trips.
Interesting fact 2, a 2009 Ford Focus TDCi will give you 1000km per tank if pushed.........but still remains a POS to drive

[The Pastor]

Main motorway 140

open road = no speedlimit.

[Scuba_Steve]

No speed limit! people should govern themselfs

[ukusa]

No speed limit! people should govern themselfs

a real responsible decision there from the transport minister :gob:

[pete376403]

I recall reading ages ago about an experiment in the US where speed limits were abolished - after a short period it was observed that the majority set their own pace of around 115 - 120 (KmHr) . Of course there were a few crazies (both below and above) but you'll get that no matter what the limit is set to. Think this was is Minnesota or Montana - both of which tend to have long, straight and probably properly engineered highways.
Nevada had (has?) no limit but the federal government has a 55(MPH) limit - if the state wants federal funding, the fed limit has to apply (according to a US person I was conversing with)

[SPman]

Prima facie no limit open road limit.
Les's "inappropriate speed" for speed over 100, reset after 2 years to the 85th percentile (85th percentile rule is only useful if taken under no restrictions - ie most open road speeds would probably settle around 115-120 for the 85th percentile..).
Lots of unmarked cars, with plice who have been screened for aptitude, "attitude" and common sense, hammering dangerous, careless and inappropriate driving! All fines and drivers concerned going to...........
Concerted effort on vastly improved, comprehensive driver training.
Those found to be incompetent banned to public transport (would then be a further incentive to upgrade public transport)

[ukusa]

who's the nana who voted for 80. Moped/Scooter rider :scooter: or Suzuki Alto?

[2wheeldrifter]

Agreed, let Darwinism deal to everyone...

But really, Why change the speed limit? No one abides by it anyway even knowing the consequences.
Death, Ticket or Vehicular Manslaughter twist the wrist to hard and one or more may apply.

Wanna go fast? Get to the track.

Eyegasm

He's right, you have to think of the lowest common denominator who can drive!


Anyhow you would still get stuck behind slower vehicles, on the flip side of that imagine a 45ton truck doing 120kmh passing and not on a passing lane, hate to meet that fucker in your little Honda city lol let alone a bike.

100kmh is fine if we had 110 speed tolerance, some how because if we know we can do 110 we will do 120 aye? maybe it's just the penalties will be harsher?

[slofox]

Others have already said as much, but I think the quality of the roads in NZ varies so much that no set limit is safe and/or sensible everywhere. Some roads I ride could happily carry 120km/hr limits. Others should be posted at 80km/hr. Or less in some places.
SO maybe individually post every road...yeah right. Imagine the chaos if that happened..."bt but but osshshshiffer, I wash shore the lummit wash 140 on thish road...?"

Strictly speaking common sense should prevail. What chance that? har de har har.

[Ixion]

I could go along with the status quo, or even an 80 limit, much more happily if you had to exceed it for a reasonable time/distance before getting a ticket, as was the case before radar.

I object very strongly to the way that one can get a ticket for a momentary overage, perhaps in the course of an overtaking manoeuvre, when the excessive speed is arguably much safer than prolonged time on the wrong side of the road.

I think that a short period over the limit (it used to be 2 tenths of a mile from memory) should be disregarded.

A momentary oversight , perhaps down a steepish hill, or a brief excess in overtaking did not use to be a problem. Whereas now, police park themselves in positions where they pick up drivers in exactly that situation - who may perhaps have driven for hundreds of kilometres in legal rectitude, then get a ticket for a few seconds speeding. Taint right.

This overcomes the problem that, what speed you set a limit at, there will be a significant number of people who will trundle along 10 or 20 kph under it, and make it as difficult as possible to overtake them

There is in my mind a very ig difference between the driver who goes 20 or even 50 kph over the limit for a few hundred metres, then returns to legality, and the driver maintaining a constant illegal speed (not that I condemn either of them, but I think the two cases should be distinguished)

[specter]

should have open road 100 passing 130. would solve alot of problems and be more safe and less bullshit over taking someone doing 90 at 100kph is not safe

[ukusa]

should have open road 100 passing 130. would solve alot of problems and be more safe and less bullshit over taking someone doing 90 at 100kph is not safe

I agree, too many pricks use the entire overtaking lane to pass one vehicle.

[bogan]

There is in my mind a very ig difference between the driver who goes 20 or even 50 kph over the limit for a few hundred metres, then returns to legality, and the driver maintaining a constant illegal speed (not that I condemn either of them, but I think the two cases should be distinguished)

exactly, going at a speed faster than normal generally obtains more attention, even though the damage occuring if an accident occurs at those speeds increases, the chances of one occuring at all decrease! thats what I reckon anyway.


should have open road 100 passing 130. would solve alot of problems and be more safe and less bullshit over taking someone doing 90 at 100kph is not safe

fuck yeh, think it used to be known as officers discrimination.


I agree, too many pricks use the entire overtaking lane to pass one vehicle.

I managed even worse than that once! I was in the old mans ute, got the run on a truck into the passing lane up a hill, got about halfway up beside the truck then fuck, I'm slowing down, fuck, truck is unladen and ute is gutles, fuck it, pulled back in behind him. So took up an entire passing lane to pass no vehicles! :slap:

[Berries]

The actual speed limit is irrelevant, there will always be those who go below it and piss people off, or who go above it and are dangerous child killers. It is how those who exceed the limit are treated that is the real issue.

If I was the Minister I would leave the speed limit at 100km/h - too much cost in changing all the signs over. But exceeding the speed limit would not be an offence on its own, there would need to be other circumstances contributing to an increased crash risk - such as traffic volumes, dangerous overtaking, tailgating etc etc. So in essence, 180 on a short straight between the twisties would not be a ticket, nor would a quick blat past a line of traffic.

Then again, if I was the Minister I would be too busy watching porn with my gay lover than worrying about the plebs who have to drive themselves.

I see that nobody has voted for 90 yet. I bet that will be the open road speed limit within two years.

[Pixie]

Depends on the road.

there are roads that could safely (?) have posted speeds of 120. But I'd have these as a special case road and most would remain 100.

Why you ask?

I keep thinking back to my family holidays - January traveling Christchurch to Kaiteriteri and Easter traveling south to Wanaka - I am constantly amazed at the fools on the road who are incapable of driving in a safe manner at 100 little loan anything higher!

Rules tend to cater for the lowest form of driver so no matter how capable you and your vehicle are there will always be some dick driving like a crazy dog in a piece of unsafe crap.

When I traveled for my job,I would routinely sit around 120 kmh on backroads all over the North Island.I would take most corners without slowing and without ever crossing the centerline.This was in piece-of-shit Commodore Station Wagons.Never had an incident.

[Pixie]

..... have driven for hundreds of kilometres in legal rectitude

What kind of car is that?

[Swoop]

Take a leaf out of Queensland's book. 60kmh around town and 110 on the freeway.

[avgas]

What kind of car is that?
British....................

[oldrider]

Speed limits/tolerances have been a hot topic lately so though it was about time for another poll. I've looked back and have found other polls on speed, but couldn't find one asking this simple question.
If you were transport minister, what would set the open road speed limit at. That means the speed you would set for the benefit of the country, not for your own benefit.

Can't vote, you left out "unlimited"

Get rid of mandatory speed limits and come down hard and fast on "Dangerous driving"!

Convicted for dangerous driving....."Disqualified for life"!

Careless driving....three strikes converts to dangerous driving....your out!

No more stupid rules needed after that!

Watch the road toll go down then. :yes:

[_Shrek_]

leave cars & trucks as they are & lift bikes to 120 & 100kph for learners on the open road

[scumdog]

I voted for 80.

That way we can all feel like we're a rebel hero when doing 100kph...:whistle:

[swbarnett]

My idea would be to set no legal speed limit. Have an advisory safe speed limit for trucks to take corners and use the dangerous driving charge for any silly behaviour on our roads.
+1 ........

[RiderInBlack]

I voted for 80.

That way we can all feel like we're a rebel hero when doing 100kph...:whistle:In some way I agree with that. It is human nature to go at the limit or just a bit faster. If ya really want driver ta be going 100kph or less, then ya need ta set the limit at 80kph, but only ticket them for 110kph or more, and allow the Cop more discretion (as it was like back in the 80's).
Allowance should be made for passing speeds. I'm happy with the 100kph limit, but do feel that they should only be ticketing for above 120kph on good road condition day, but drop that to ticket at 100kph where conditions are appalling.

[MSTRS]

... but drop that to ticket at 100kph where conditions are appalling.

They can now. A lot of people forget aboyt those white signs with the black diagonal bar. Means 100kph in good conditions (whatever they are) but only 70kph in poor...

[RiderInBlack]

They can now. A lot of people forget aboyt those white signs with the black diagonal bar. Means 100kph in good conditions (whatever they are) but only 70kph in poor...Aye, but was more thinking of pieces of Open Road were the road has become like this photo (Cracker's Crash Site (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=210577&d=1276503124)) and it is raining (as it was in the accident on last Sunday's ride). Of cause it should be marked, and should get repaired, but until then the speed should be reduced (a limited Speed zone sign with a poor road condition/! warning sign would have helped).

[Motig]

Stick to present 100k with the 10% margin plus overtaking speed would have no limit as long as it was done safely. I'm afraid I just can't understand the concept of being ticketed for getting the overtaking manuover (sp) done so that your on the wrong side of the road for as short a time as possible. As for 120 plus, stuff that, there would have to be a vast increase in the quality of our roads and certainly something better than a strip of paint between me and uncoming traffic. Down here in the south anyway.

[swbarnett]

They can now. A lot of people forget aboyt those white signs with the black diagonal bar. Means 100kph in good conditions (whatever they are) but only 70kph in poor...
The sign you mention is just an open road speed limit sign. Same meaning as a red circle on white with black "100". I think what you may be referring to is the "LSZ" sign (Limited Speed Zone) which means open road speed limit unless conditions are poor and then it's 50kph.

[MSTRS]

Eh. Wrong. The black bar sign IS an LSZ sign. And unless something has changed since I got out of nappies it mean 100/70kph depending on conditions.
When I learned this shit, it was 50mph or 40mph.

[Jantar]

Eh. Wrong. The black bar sign IS an LSZ sign. And unless something has changed since I got out of nappies it mean 100/70kph depending on conditions.
When I learned this shit, it was 50mph or 40mph.
Uh, the Limited Speed Zone sign used to be LSZ, but that was repealed back in the mid 80s. There is now no provision for a limited speed zone. The white circle with a black bar has always meant De-restricted speed zone which these days is 100.

[ukusa]

In some way I agree with that. It is human nature to go at the limit or just a bit faster. If ya really want driver ta be going 100kph or less, then ya need ta set the limit at 80kph, but only ticket them for 110kph or more, and allow the Cop more discretion (as it was like back in the 80's).

It might be human nature for some, but for the majority it's not. Recently went to Leithfield for work a couple of days in a row, both times in reasonably fine weather, virtually all the way there & all the way back I was forced to sit at 80 - 85 kph, all because some cock sat in front of everyone doing this speed. Only one overtaking lane in that stretch during which only a couple of the 6 to 8 cars managed to pass (not counting dual lane northern motorway Kaiapoi). Traffic coming opposite direction meant no chance of overtaking elsewhere. Most of the time I'm happy just to get to the speed limit, but it's not possible in a car (easier on the bike though).
I travel quite alot for work, Christchurch - Kaikoura is quite regular. People travelling at 80 - 95 would be 80 - 90% of the traffic on the road. Several of the ones that do 80kph on the open road don't change their speed when entering a 70kph zone. They just carry on in their own little world, completely oblivious to those around them.

[MSTRS]

http://www.roadcodepractice.co.nz/roadcode/motorcycle-road-code/about-limits/speed-limits.aspx

Oops, one or more of us had it wrong.
What's that about old dogs and new tricks?

[Berries]

Oops, one or more of us had it wrong.
What's that about old dogs and new tricks?
At least we now know who was at the head of the queue of slow moving traffic doing 70 in a 100 zone when it was raining.

[Rogue Rider]

hmmm, well in my opinion, the open road speed limit on dual lane motorways should be 120- 130km p/hr, and open road speed limits should be 110-120.
I think motorway roads are up to the parr for these conditions, some of our SH1 may not be but the roads in general should be lifted in qualtiy somewhat. Some of our road conditions are terrible, especially with smooth tar in alot of places.
I noticed this weekend that Brynderwins south of Waipu have had the speed limit dropped to 80km p/hr. Thats absolutely nuts, its probably the countries longest up hill passing lane and they have dropped it to 80 km zone.
I also noted that popo were in enforce big time ticketing everyone...... nobs.

[Hitcher]

New Zealand's roads largely dictate what the average speed should be. Given that there are diminishing opportunities to pass on single carriageway, and fucking meanderthals who crawl along in the righthand lanes on dual carriageways or motorways, your speed will be decided by the slowest vehicle in front of you. On that basis the fastest you will get to travel is about 95kmh, or 90kmh if there are cops around. It's nothing more than a simple exercise in fluid dynamics and Nash Equilibriums.

[dipshit]

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091203115930AAWSDfX

[MarkH]

I have travelled on NZ roads at >130kph while not feeling like it was in any way dangerous - I think the limits are a rather blunt instrument to keep drivers safe and they are often silly. There are roads with poor visibility and lots of side roads and driveways and corners and it is legal to drive 100kph on them in the pouring rain, there are other roads with almost no driveways or side roads and good visibility and it is illegal to drive along them at more than 100kph in fine weather. I voted for 125+ limits and I would like to see them coupled with improved driver training so people know when and where it is safe to travel at faster speeds and more importantly when & where to slow down and drive with caution. I don't think all roads should have a high limit and I 100% agree with a 40kph limit past schools at times when children are about.

[sinned]

Last year I spent hours/days in a bus on a tour through Europe. What fascinated me was the discipline on the motorways and main roads and amount of traffic. No one hogged the fast lane and passing maneuvers were efficient, some cars were going very fast on the unlimited speed sections. The bus I was in was governed at 100kph and that is the speed we rolled at. When we caught up to a slower vehicle the driver indicated moved out, passed and then indicated back and moved back even if the next slow vehicle was only a 100 or so meters further up the road. This kept the fast lane free for passing. No one seemed to be driving poorly or misbehaving and I saw few cops. I asked about law enforcement and was assured that is was there in the form of cameras etc and that it wouldn't take long before a slow or inconsiderate driver was apprehended.

What a difference to here in god's own where the traffic flow is constantly clogged up with slow, inconsiderate and incompetent drivers.

[scumdog]

What a difference to here in god's own where the traffic flow is constantly clogged up with slow, inconsiderate and incompetent drivers.

Hence why they've slapped 100kph speed limit on gods own.

(And yeah, better training would help but too many are too incompetent to do any better, it would be safer if we could take them off the road - yaay, 48% less traffic!)

[ukusa]

(And yeah, better training would help but too many are too incompetent to do any better, it would be safer if we could take them off the road - yaay, 48% less traffic!)

Why aren't they targeted then for their poor driving? Anyone who is not competent to drive at the speed limit in perfectly fine conditions shouldn't be on the road. Too many times I've been stuck behind some clown doing 75 - 80 on the open road, on a straight stretch of road, in perfectly fine conditions. Five to fifteen vehicles stuck behind them like a giant centipede. A cop come towards us & drives merrily on by. Is it really too much to ask? Better roads (like Europe) would help, but I know that's too much to ask for.

[slofox]

What a difference to here in god's own where the traffic flow is constantly clogged up with slow, inconsiderate and incompetent drivers.

You forgot "who have an aggressive attitude to other road users..."

[p.dath]

The think I don't like about limits is it implies that the road is safe to use at that speed, when that may not be the case. Look at Western Australia - road accidents went up 30% on the rural highways when they went from no speed limit to an imposed speed limit.

I also look at places like Great Barrier Island. Although they mostly (seems to me) to have a 100km/h speed limit, they have a lot of "advisory" signs, because their roads are not capable of being driven at pace. If they can manage with advisory signs, can't the mainland do the same?

[scumdog]

T If they can manage with advisory signs, can't the mainland do the same?

Nah, they would be ignored as they do all other signs...familiarity breeds contempt and all that..

[slofox]

Nah, they would be ignored as they do all other signs...familiarity breeds contempt and all that..

I never ignore them - I always try to see how much I can add on and still get round without binning...:whistle:

[FROSTY]

I reckon the answer is HUGE sighns that light up when theres not accidents or similar USE COMMON SENSE Then scrap the speed limit.
It isn't speed that kills its uneducated speed in cars that are poorly maintained

[Blackshear]

What's the point in raising the limit if half our damn country can't even execute a proper intersection merge?

I think we need to follow less Britain and Australia, and more Germany.
Really sick of all these dumbass laws we're borrowing off nanny-countries.

[JR1]

we are all biased bikers. If it was up to me fzr250s could go as fast as they wanted wherever they wanted..

[swbarnett]

(And yeah, better training would help but too many are too incompetent to do any better, it would be safer if we could take them off the road - yaay, 48% less traffic!)
This is exactly what you get with an efficient, frequent, cheap (relatively) and convenient public transport system that spans the whole country. This is what you have in switzerland. You can get to every town, no matter how small, at least once a day by either train, bus or boat. The practical upshot is that those who don't want to drive, for whatever reason, don't have to. The roads are left to those that actually have a clue and want to drive.

I don't see this happen here, however. Switzerland is the size of the central North Island with a population of around 7.5million people. Economys of scale make their transport system possible.

[Berries]

we are all biased bikers. If it was up to me fzr250s could go as fast as they wanted wherever they wanted..
No change from the 100k limit then:bleh: