September for new rules

[Shaun]

Copy of sent email


Hi peter

Re the proposed rule changes

If any of them happen, they cannot be approved until Sep 1st? is my understanding!

So HOW in 2 months, do all the riders that are interested in the new 600 tuning rules as well as the new Superbike rules, even have a chance of A, Finding the money in time to build such a bike

B- Find an engine tuner with good safe rep to do the work even in such a short time

I believe, we need to race this coming season with current Rules ( And they are cheaper to race under) and have the NEW rules introduced from the DAY the next season finishes, to give people a chance to budget and plan properly.

Please pass this on


Best Regards
Shaun Harris




PS, AGREE OR DISAGREE AND SEND EMAIL TO COMMISION MEMBERS

[gixerracer]

My f---en god this is best thing I have seen on this subject. Did you get a reply
Copy of sent email


Hi peter

Re the proposed rule changes

If any of them happen, they cannot be approved until Sep 1st? is my understanding!

So HOW in 2 months, do all the riders that are interested in the new 600 tuning rules as well as the new Superbike rules, even have a chance of A, Finding the money in time to build such a bike

B- Find an engine tuner with good safe rep to do the work even in such a short time

I believe, we need to race this coming season with current Rules ( And they are cheaper to race under) and have the NEW rules introduced from the DAY the next season finishes, to give people a chance to budget and plan properly.

Please pass this on


Best Regards
Shaun Harris




PS, AGREE OR DISAGREE AND SEND EMAIL TO COMMISION MEMBERS

[Rcktfsh]

Ditto to having a calender sorted well in advance of the season start, classes and dates should be finalised by now to allow teams to plan in advance.

[Shaun]

My f---en god this is best thing I have seen on this subject. Did you get a reply

As I only sent the email to one of our commisioners at 11-30 am yesterday, I have not had a reply as yet, but have confidence that they will when they can.

PS, thanks for the comment

[lee]

Funny, Iwrote to them the other week in a similar vein - highlighting the fact that some of us have been building bikes to the old rules with a view to racing nationals in Jan 2011. I haven't heard anything from them.

Must admit that my email was very badly worded and a bit long winded, it also contained lots of stupid questions about tyre rules and some other rubbish, so I'm not surprised I didn't get a response.

nice work Shaun, seems you've put into words what my non-working brain meant to say.

Lee

[Shaun]

Funny, Iwrote to them the other week in a similar vein - highlighting the fact that some of us have been building bikes to the old rules with a view to racing nationals in Jan 2011. I haven't heard anything from them.

Must admit that my email was very badly worded and a bit long winded, it also contained lots of stupid questions about tyre rules and some other rubbish, so I'm not surprised I didn't get a response.

nice work Shaun, seems you've put into words what my non-working brain meant to say.

Lee

Re write it mate, just focus on the timing side of it.

[lee]

Yeah, Like I said, I've written to them, I just don't think I was as clear or as to the point as I should have been.

[Maido]

Because they are taking submissions I would doubt they would reply to them, unless it is just a note to say they received them. I am guessing that they will have all say in rules, after reading the submissions and maybe altering if there is a general concensus that something in their draft rules must change.
I sent mine in last week sometime, I really wasn't expecting to hear back until the final regs were announced. Then we will see the forums rage for about a month afterwards, its going to be fun viewing!
I am just glad someone somewhere is doing something, after listening to everyone here talk about something needing to be done since these forums went online!

[Shaun]

Because they are taking submissions I would doubt they would reply to them, unless it is just a note to say they received them. I am guessing that they will have all say in rules, after reading the submissions and maybe altering if there is a general concensus that something in their draft rules must change.
I sent mine in last week sometime, I really wasn't expecting to hear back until the final regs were announced. Then we will see the forums rage for about a month afterwards, its going to be fun viewing!
I am just glad someone somewhere is doing something, after listening to everyone here talk about something needing to be done since these forums went online!




Agreed mate

[slowpoke]

What's the 2 months you speak of Shaun? If rules are ratified Sept 1st then that basically leaves at least 4 months until the end of the year? Nationals are done and dusted for 2010 so would have to be at least 2011 until next Nat's? Not having a go, just wondering if I'm missing something, I'm not the brightest light on the Christmas tree..........

[suzuki21]

My f---en god this is best thing I have seen on this subject. Did you get a reply

If SBK rules dont change this season, someone on a Honda might get his arse kicked by a stock 1000 hahahahahahahahaha

[suzuki21]

I believe the extra allowable modifications arent compulsory? Most people will still keep the normal mods untill they purchase a new model - and probably go in the stock class if the cost of SBK scares them. A slow Honda rider told me in the weekend did have a point about the cost to keep up with the jones' (excuse the pun) but that happens in every class now.
At the end of the day the top level riders on SSTK bikes will still spank 2nd tier riders on fully blown supers, so maybe they should cut their own costs back and go SSTK when they update rides, and stop complaining about the top riders having 1000 more horsepower.

[gixerracer]

Gez if i didnt know better i wood think you wer mates with BB or somthing
I believe the extra allowable modifications arent compulsory? Most people will still keep the normal mods untill they purchase a new model - and probably go in the stock class if the cost of SBK scares them. A slow Honda rider told me in the weekend did have a point about the cost to keep up with the jones' (excuse the pun) but that happens in every class now.
At the end of the day the top level riders on SSTK bikes will still spank 2nd tier riders on fully blown supers, so maybe they should cut their own costs back and go SSTK when they update rides, and stop complaining about the top riders having 1000 more horsepower.

[Robert Taylor]

If SBK rules dont change this season, someone on a Honda might get his arse kicked by a stock 1000 hahahahahahahahaha

Hondas budget was tight with no money for serious engine mods. But I do applaud that they were out there racing and Craig certainly kept everyone entertained, on track, off track and in the sandpit!

[cowpoos]

Hondas budget was tight with no money for serious engine mods. But I do applaud that they were out there racing and Craig certainly kept everyone entertained, on track, off track and in the sandpit!

I thought they had some serous mods??? converting four strokes in too two strokes??? well judging by the smoke puffs coming out the exhaust?

[suzuki21]

Gez if i didnt know better i wood think you wer mates with BB or somthing

I only defend him when he buy's good beer. Remember when he started buying the crew Victory and VB, then all off a sudden his TLR had a mysterious electrical fault that we "couldnt find"...................

[suzuki21]

Hondas budget was tight with no money for serious engine mods. But I do applaud that they were out there racing and Craig certainly kept everyone entertained, on track, off track and in the sandpit!
Too true Robert, Craig is a legend and I want to marry him, I just have to find a way to get rid of Jo. Unfortunately with tough economic times for everyone I do see why it has been recommended to push the SSTK class. One thing that people havent spoken about is that the very few people spending the big bucks on super's etc arent actually the racers themselves, whereas most people would be happy racing a bike with a pipe and suspension because they have less sponsorship dollar. It would negate the huge expense of buying all the trick gear for no particular reason, as those same 4-5 riders at the front would still be at the front no matter what class they are running.

[gixerracer]

I think it was the illegal high comp pistons closed up the plug gap was the electrical problem
I only defend him when he buy's good beer. Remember when he started buying the crew Victory and VB, then all off a sudden his TLR had a mysterious electrical fault that we "couldnt find"...................

[Shaun]

Too true Robert, Craig is a legend and I want to marry him, I just have to find a way to get rid of Jo. Unfortunately with tough economic times for everyone I do see why it has been recommended to push the SSTK class. One thing that people havent spoken about is that the very few people spending the big bucks on super's etc arent actually the racers themselves, whereas most people would be happy racing a bike with a pipe and suspension because they have less sponsorship dollar. It would negate the huge expense of buying all the trick gear for no particular reason, as those same 4-5 riders at the front would still be at the front no matter what class they are running.



So we UP the BUILD cost of a SB for next season over the last season's costs, and RE Introduce the SSTK class, with slightly different rules to the current ones------ WOW, what we have achieved here, is ???????????????

We just made racing more exspensive, but one manufacturer might be happy I suppose


F all this soft touch shite, lets just go back to F1 and F2, and if ya dont like it, go MotoX Ha ha

[cowpoos]

go MotoX Ha ha

Moto X is far too much hard work!! you have to be kidding!!

[paigeo]

What are the MNZ guys thinking. Am I missing something. By making the price to build a race bike more expensive going to attract more people to race. Dont we want to make racing cheaper to increase the grid sizes. Why would anyone go superstock and only 2 finish mid field in a race with the Superbikes. Because to any Joe Bloggs watching, It wont matter if you win the stock class you wont be noticed as your a midfield finisher!!!!

[slowpoke]

I dunno. Go along to a Vic Club meeting and the number of bikes isn't the problem....the problem is getting those same people to turn up to a National's meeting. You can buy Brian Bernard's ex-Gareth Jones freshened up R1, which is a farkin' quick bike, for less than the price of a new road bike, or you could have bought Stroudies or Robbie Bugden's GSXR's complete with spares for the same. That's a helluva lotta bike, ready to race, for way less than the price of a new Aprilia or BMW S1000RR (which you then have to get race ready). So what is better value?


What are the MNZ guys thinking. Am I missing something. By making the price to build a race bike more expensive going to attract more people to race. Dont we want to make racing cheaper to increase the grid sizes. Why would anyone go superstock and only 2 finish mid field in a race with the Superbikes. Because to any Joe Bloggs watching, It wont matter if you win the stock class you wont be noticed as your a midfield finisher!!!!

[codgyoleracer]

[QUOTE=Shaun;1129783838]Copy of sent email


Hi peter

Re the proposed rule changes

If any of them happen, they cannot be approved until Sep 1st? is my understanding!

So HOW in 2 months, do all the riders that are interested in the new 600 tuning rules as well as the new Superbike rules, even have a chance of A, Finding the money in time to build such a bike

B- Find an engine tuner with good safe rep to do the work even in such a short time

I believe, we need to race this coming season with current Rules ( And they are cheaper to race under) and have the NEW rules introduced from the DAY the next season finishes, to give people a chance to budget and plan properly.

Please pass this on


Best Regards
Shaun Harris




Did you get an answer on timing/dates Shaun ?

[Shaun]

[QUOTE=Shaun;1129783838]Copy of sent email


Hi peter

Re the proposed rule changes

If any of them happen, they cannot be approved until Sep 1st? is my understanding!

So HOW in 2 months, do all the riders that are interested in the new 600 tuning rules as well as the new Superbike rules, even have a chance of A, Finding the money in time to build such a bike

B- Find an engine tuner with good safe rep to do the work even in such a short time

I believe, we need to race this coming season with current Rules ( And they are cheaper to race under) and have the NEW rules introduced from the DAY the next season finishes, to give people a chance to budget and plan properly.

Please pass this on


Best Regards
Shaun Harris




Did you get an answer on timing/dates Shaun ?

NO MATE Not heard a thing

[Robert Taylor]

[QUOTE=Shaun;1129783838]Copy of sent email


Hi peter

Re the proposed rule changes

If any of them happen, they cannot be approved until Sep 1st? is my understanding!

So HOW in 2 months, do all the riders that are interested in the new 600 tuning rules as well as the new Superbike rules, even have a chance of A, Finding the money in time to build such a bike

B- Find an engine tuner with good safe rep to do the work even in such a short time

I believe, we need to race this coming season with current Rules ( And they are cheaper to race under) and have the NEW rules introduced from the DAY the next season finishes, to give people a chance to budget and plan properly.

Please pass this on


Best Regards
Shaun Harris




Did you get an answer on timing/dates Shaun ?

The reality is that a LOT of people are saying exactly what is ably pointed out above. Its also interesting to note that a lot of racers who already are well versed in the suspension backup that they recieve in Supersport 600 ( and other classes ) are less than keen on the idea of running modified stock rear shocks and forks as its going to be a lot more complex and difficult with spring changes , revalving and longevity.
This should not be taken as a commercial statement as we would otherwise do pretty okay out of it, but for the racers it will be much more frustration and ultimately cost.
One current reality is that we ( CKT ) carry nigh on 30k worth of rotational springs to have on hand to exchange for our many customers. With the predominant use of the TTX36 ( not a commercial statement here, its a reality ) we only have to carry one generic series of rear shock spring excepting a slightly shorter series specific to the R6. Similarly with fork springs, we carry one basic series only that fit all the Ohlins catridges and we also use them in Pro Twin SV650s. That frankly makes life very very easy for everybody and its not an inventory nightmare.
We are the only people that carry a full range of springs at meetings to service the shocks we have sold, that is a commercial statement but I am proud that when someone needs a spring we very very rarely dont have it.
All of these years we really should have been charging a nominal exchange fee for spring swaps to those riders not on paying contracts, as long as the spring swap yielded a positive result. So this has FALSELY kept one of the costs of road racing down and if anyone has accused us of being money grabbers then I invite you to see that we dont have flash homes and flash cars etc etc. We help anybody who asks.
Fast forward to the proposed Superstock 600 rules. I have and continue to do my homework on this, 5 different bikes that are popular for the class, five different shock springs and adaptation spacers required that you have to have machined, doubtless differences in the fork springs. Who is going to carry a big and diverse range of springs so they can be exchanged at meetings? Buggered if Im going to have another 30k of dead money to do so. Committed racers who dont want to burn tyres when they get to tracks such as HD and Teretonga will have to purchase and have to hand their own spring options.
Those who can and will spend the money to extensively rekit the internals of stock shocks ( ie the distributors, one in particular ) will do so. And without elaborating too far its well beyond just fitting an aftermarket piston kit or drilling out the ports in a stock piston to achieve a limited result. Ride height changes, how easy is that with a stock shock, especially the CBR600?......
Spring preload changes, easy with a high quality aftermarket shock during the middle of a brief practice session, roll into pitlane and have your mechanic twist the preloader, stopped for 10 to 20 seconds and out again to verify the result before the end of the session. Try that wiith a stock shock, beating on the tight to turn lockrings in a recessed cavity in a swingarm and only achieving a 1/16th to 1/8 turn at a time if youre lucky. Skinned knuckles, ugly looking adjust nuts and lots of cursing and swearing.......
It might be easy to cite the example of Aussie Superstock 600 but its prudent to look behind the veneer, many of the leading SS600 teams have several spare bikes and spare stock shocks, Id lay money on it that the most committed guys have spent a lot of money modifying those shocks. A number of the teams also have their in house suspension guys, that is the reality of a country with a population 5 and 1/2 times ours and more expendable income. Phil Tainton in Australia has spent a lot of time internally modifying, dynoing, testing and optimising stock SS600 shocks and he hasnt been doing it for nothing!!
The reality here in NZ is different and to requote what someone else picked up on 1 race day, 120 riders, 3 suspension guys. Tongue in cheek at least 2 of us work our butts off and we are working on equipment that is designed to be worked on and worked on very very quickly, that is one of the many but very important virtues of race quality suspension. Add and / or partially substitute that with modified stock shocks and the service time of these shocks is 3 to 4 times longer. There will be riders that may miss out on setting changes between sessions because the workload for the suspension guys has been significantly magnified. This is also a COST.
Anyone at this point who thinks one setting and one spring rate will suit all tracks is very very naive. That is unless you dont want to maximise your chances of finishing well and dont worry about the cost of tyres, the very biggest single cost in road racing.
And heck do you want me to start on forks, even spring changes with oem fork internals can be a lengthy drama, where do all the people come from that have the tools and can do such work quickly and competently at the snap of ones fingers????
The reality is the costs will not by any means be significantly less running modified oem suspension and in real terms could even be higher,with rather less residual value at the end of it.
Superstock based formula for 600s yes to keep engine build and maintenance costs down, but its a mistake given the nature of the NZ race scene to not allow aftermarket shocks and fork cartridges.
In the last few days I have pulled apart an aftermarket HRC shock marketed by Honda as an aftermarket shock to go racing with when you decide to race your CBR600. The message in this is that if you want to go racing you need a proper racing shock that is developed specifically to do so and has all the convenience features.

Frankly ( and with all respect ) I dont think the commission has devoted much time to realising what the practical realities and problems are.

[neil_cb125t]

I definitely agree with the top classes requiring more time to prepare 20-30-40K+ machines. its also annoying to change rules that were only created last year aka 600 production class.

I too have submitted thoughts on F3 or Sport bike regs, hopefully we all get a response as soon as possible - I have spent all year putting money aside to be able to spend thousands on my f3 push to nationals, if 250 gp machines can roll up ...i may as well hang up the boots, and go travelling with some german tourists!!

email attached if your interested

Dear MNZ

I understand that the intent of changing the F3/Sportbike rules is to try and bring more entrants to the ‘party’ whilst keeping its close, competitive, formula based spirit alive.

I believe the proposed change to production 250cc 2 strokes, increasing the limit to 350cc, is a good one. The 250cc 2 stroke production machines have been out powered since the introduction of 650cc water cooled V twins. Either an over-bored RGV250 motor or LD350 motor in a RGV/NSR or even ZXR400 frame would be a very competitive option to 450cc multis and 650cc twins currently competing in F3. It stays within the intent of a formula based class that has production ‘based’ machines, it also brings the gap between 2 stroke and 4 strokes closer together. This would entice more competitors to enter nationals as there will be more bike and engine options allowed into the class that will be competitive.

The proposed inclusion of 250GP machines I do not believe will keep the close competitive spirit of F3 alive. It does open up another machine option to the class – however the inclusion of this size of Grand Prix machine will be of detriment to the class. The technology advancement in any GP machine is up to 10 years ahead of any road based machine, this makes any advancements carried out by current F3 competitors hugely out of date. Secondly the minimum power output of a 250GP machine is equal to or above all other allowed engine configurations, maximum out puts. The superior engine coupled with the vastly advanced frame, weight saving and braking technology would mean the advantage that any competitor would have by competing on a 250GP machine would be so great, that all other machines will out rightly, out classed. A hand full of 250GP riders would have the strangle hold on the top spots of the class, meaning new entrants will be put off beginning
or continuing a race career in F3. This is against the intent of the proposed rule changes.

It is a shame that the 250GP class has dissolved – it would be a great step up for someone like me after I have competed in F3 for a good period of time. With the world climate being against 2 strokes (phasing them out) the inclusion of them would be a very short term improvisation.

A far more comparable inclusion would be a 125GP machine – and I could see that if the 125GP class dissolved then the machines would be a better suited (and possibly accepted) option.


Many thanks
Chappy

Neil Chappell

[Kickaha]

I invite you to see that we dont have flash homes and flash cars etc etc.

I think this would indicate otherwise :bleh:




Now I must away, Im looking out at the panoramic seascape of activity from my waterfront mansion. The new leather armchairs are really comfy and I especially like the new solid oak sidetables that have just been delivered, they are the right height so that I dont have to strain unduly to reach my cocktails. I will be bored with this soon though and retire to the southerly end of the house that overlooks the 1000 acres of plains where I can witness herds of vildebeests majestically sweeping across the horizon. It also troubles me which vehicle Im going to drive to the bordello tonight, the Ferrari or the new Aston.

[Robert Taylor]

I think this would indicate otherwise :bleh:

Fancy coming up for a bit of fox hunting and a few pink gins this weekend Warwick?
Theres a couple of new girls at the bordello , they do outcalls at a paltry 2k each overnight and they are happy to dress up in Nazi regalia......New imports from the UK, Max and Bernie highly recommended them.
Ill pick up the tab from my handsome profits.

[SWERVE]

funny..........the mental image of Robert in a tweed hunting jacket, with a silk cravat & sporting a monocle in one eye, being served "driinkies" by a scantily clad porn starlet.............isnt that difficult to conjure up. Jolly Ho chaps..........

[cowpoos]

funny..........the mental image of Robert in a tweed hunting jacket, with a silk cravat & sporting a monocle in one eye, being served "driinkies" by a scantily clad porn starlet.............isnt that difficult to conjure up. Jolly Ho chaps..........
Really....I ca see it...in a Jeeves and Wooster, kinda way....Robert as Wooster and Dennis as jeeves...'' What 'O' bertie...spot a cup of the continents finest?'

[Billy]

[QUOTE=codgyoleracer;1129798405]

NO MATE Not heard a thing

As I understand it,Nobody should be expecting a reply,

The idea was for submissions to be sent in for the roadrace commission to consider before finalising the new rules.

[lostinflyz]

a simple generic "your submission has been received" couldn't have hurt.

[Maido]

I bet ACC didn't reply to everyone who sent in a submission to them about the acc hikes...... (just shit stirring here!)

[Robert Taylor]

Really....I ca see it...in a Jeeves and Wooster, kinda way....Robert as Wooster and Dennis as jeeves...'' What 'O' bertie...spot a cup of the continents finest?'

Righto, but steady on old chap!!

[Biggles08]

[QUOTE=Shaun;1129798584]

As I understand it,Nobody should be expecting a reply,

The idea was for submissions to be sent in for the roadrace commission to consider before finalising the new rules.

I got a "thank you" email from them :-)