Speed guns

[AJT]

I couldnt believe how many cops are out there this weekend!!!

I got nabbed by a cop with a speed gun yesterday. I saw him note my plate and cops ahead pulled out too early so there was a car between us anyway I pulled off to gome home and he tried to make the offramp but missed (not deliberate on my part of course)

what next? fine in the mail or do they have to pull you over so you can see the speed reading etc?

[Jantar]

You will prpbably get a letter asking you for the identity of the person riding your bike on that day and time. If you admit that it was you then the ticket will follow. If you deny it was you and refuse to identify someone else, the penalty can be much higher, but no demerits.

[AJT]

I take it for the latter you get a speed camera fine amount which are higher that issued tickets?

[Jantar]

The offence of failing to identify is not a traffic matter, but is covered under some other act. From memory the penalty which has applied in the past is around $1500.

[crazyhorse]

We went to Wellington for the week, and I was surprised how few cops I saw. Even leaving yesterday afternoon we only saw about 2 and they were by Otaki, and we drove out of the big city about 3.45 pm

[AJT]

might have just been in my neck of the woods

[grusomhat]

Saw 3 cops on the way back from Akaroa today, including a friendly motorbike cop.

[NighthawkNZ]

haven't seen one all day...

[Scuba_Steve]

The offence of failing to identify is not a traffic matter, but is covered under some other act. From memory the penalty which has applied in the past is around $1500.

I think they try & do you for "obstruction of justice" its a bullshit charge as there is NO justice in traffic scams, but being as the judges look out for their buddies in the P.I.G gang they get away with crap like that.

[scumdog]

haven't seen one all day...

I looked in the mirror to see the one I did see.:blink:

[AJT]

I'll fess up if they do send a ticket but it occurred to me - what if you were selling your bike and someone was test riding it...lets face it that happens all the time! often you don't know who the person is...unless they buy the bike!

[Jonathan]

Coming home from Wellington today saw three cop cars and one cop bike had pulled over and were ticketing four separate drivers all within a one kilometre stretch.

They are out in force today. The annoying thing is it makes all other drives slow down to 90 on the motorway to be extra careful.

[marty]

The offence of failing to identify is not a traffic matter, but is covered under some other act. From memory the penalty which has applied in the past is around $1500.

Land Transport Act 1998 No 110 (as at 03 March 2010),

118 Owner or hirer or licence holder to give information as to identity of driver or passenger

(1) If an enforcement officer has reasonable cause to believe that the driver of a vehicle has committed an offence while in charge of the vehicle, the officer may request the owner or hirer of the vehicle to give all information in his or her possession or obtainable by him or her which may lead to the identification and apprehension of the driver of the vehicle.

[Mom]

I'll fess up if they do send a ticket but it occurred to me - what if you were selling your bike and someone was test riding it...lets face it that happens all the time! often you don't know who the person is...unless they buy the bike!

If you let someone test ride your bike without knowing who they are then more fool you :D Regardless if they buy the bike or not.

[rastuscat]

Saw 3 cops on the way back from Akaroa today, including a friendly motorbike cop.

Warm fuzzies.......the motorbike cop wuz me :)

Imagine that, being paid to ride a bike. Sigh. Life is good.

[CookMySock]

Tell them you note that you are compelled to reply under penalty of law, and intend to fully comply with their request to every reasonable extent, as this was some weeks earlier and you have been very busy you have no personal recollection by memory of the driver on that day, and since this shared vehicle and a number of drivers, that you have examined your fuel receipts and other written records and you are unable to draw a firm conclusion that they will be able use in a court of law, but the best estimate you have is either person a,b,c,d,e,f, or yourself, but they should only take this as a "best estimate." :blink:

You have complied with the law, but lets see the look on the judges' face when they read that to him.

Steve

[scumdog]

Tell them you note that you are compelled to reply under penalty of law, and intend to fully comply with their request to every reasonable extent, as this was some weeks earlier and you have been very busy you have no personal recollection by memory of the driver on that day, and since this shared vehicle and a number of drivers, that you have examined your fuel receipts and other written records and you are unable to draw a firm conclusion that they will be able use in a court of law, but the best estimate you have is either person a,b,c,d,e,f, or yourself, but they should only take this as a "best estimate." :blink:

You have complied with the law, but lets see the look on the judges' face when they read that to him.

Steve

Yeah, THAT works all the time....pffft!:shifty:

[CookMySock]

It worked for me. Share your experience?

Steve

[scumdog]

It worked for me. Share your experience?

Steve

5 X Defendants in a row, each refusing to say who was driving.

$1,500 fine each.

That's MY experience.

[Ixion]

Lot cheaper than a disqualification , though ?

[Taz]

But even with video evidence the cops can't charge a chinaman with assault, Or find out the true killer of twin babies....... Maybe not enough money in these crimes?

[Ixion]

Interestingly, a woman at work asked my advice , what can I do about this. She hired a rental car. She did little of the driving, most of it being done by a (business) acquaintance . The purpose of the trip involved both of them, she hired the car because she arrived a day before he did. The rental car company specifically agreed that this was fine by them . He had proper licence etc.

After she returned home, she got a ticket in the mail. Speeding . The police had gotten her name etc from the rental car company. Not a bad one, but she knew that she was not the driver. She wrote and told them that , and told them who the actual driver was . Her acquaintance was happy to take the rap, and even wrote a letter , to accompany hers, admitting to the offence, providing details etc.

She got a reply back saying that it made no difference and SHE must pay the fine or go to court . She asked me what to do.

I told her to write to the senior officer of the district, and if he was as stupid as his underlings to contact her MP with the details, and let it go to court , and ask the judge for costs.

I await developments.

It is this sort of imbecility that is destroying public respect for the police. She is a middle aged woman, not a biker (that';s why she ask me what to do . She assumed a biker would know!). Previously an upholder of law and order etc. Now she thinks the police are "cretinous bastards". her words.

EDIT: She wasn't pissed off over getting the ticket. She was pissed off because despite her telling them she wasn't driving, providing the drivers details AND having him contact them and admit it, they just ignored all that.

[AJT]

Its an interesting subject as is often the case things aren't always clear cut. I was speeding and if I'm sent a ticket and they can prove what speed I was travelling at no problem I'll pay it. Whats not clear is can they simply say you were speeding at X Km/h pay up without any proof or without actually pulling me over and physically giving me a ticket?

I take the point that 'IF' someone gets a ticket on your bike during a test drive you are responsible to some degree - atleast asking to see the licence etc... in reality not many of us probabaly do this...I certainly haven't noted the persons details previously when selling a bike.

[scumdog]

But even with video evidence the cops can't charge a chinaman with assault, Or find out the true killer of twin babies....... Maybe not enough money in these crimes?

Shit no, why target something that will provide no $$ when there's a whole world of losers prepared to give away thousands of $$?

[grusomhat]

Its an interesting subject as is often the case things aren't always clear cut. I was speeding and if I'm sent a ticket and they can prove what speed I was travelling at no problem I'll pay it. Whats not clear is can they simply say you were speeding at X Km/h pay up without any proof or without actually pulling me over and physically giving me a ticket?

I take the point that 'IF' someone gets a ticket on your bike during a test drive you are responsible to some degree - atleast asking to see the licence etc... in reality not many of us probabaly do this...I certainly haven't noted the persons details previously when selling a bike.

I think you'll find you're are braver man than most

[scumdog]

Lot cheaper than a disqualification , though ?

Depends.

If you can walk to work it might not be so cheap.

[cruza]

Warm fuzzies.......the motorbike cop wuz me :)

Imagine that, being paid to ride a bike. Sigh. Life is good.


living the dream aye...............:whistle:

[SMOKEU]

5 X Defendants in a row, each refusing to say who was driving.

$1,500 fine each.

That's MY experience.

So the police prosecutor can prove that each of those 5 people were simultaneously operating the motor vehicle in question?

[scumdog]

So the police prosecutor can prove that each of those 5 people were simultaneously operating the motor vehicle in question?

Ehh???:scratch:

NONE of them were driving the cars they owned.

But it cost them $1,500 each for not saying who WAS driving them...:yes:

[Ixion]

Depends.

If you can walk to work it might not be so cheap.

True. But then again, one understands that such fines are very seldom paid anyway. Just added to the bill, so to speak.

[SMOKEU]

Ehh???:scratch:

NONE of them were driving the cars they owned.

But it cost them $1,500 each for not saying who WAS driving them...:yes:

I thought that if each person claimed ignorance, the courts would throw out the charges over something like that, which is difficult to prove.

[scumdog]

I thought that if each person claimed ignorance, the courts would throw out the charges over something like that, which is difficult to prove.

You own a car?

Won't say who was driving it at certain place/time/date?

It might cost you $1,500 for saying nothing.

"I thought" is very dangerous when it comes to the law.

It's almost as bad as saying "I was just...."

[SMOKEU]

You own a car?

Won't say who was driving it at certain place/time/date?

It might cost you $1,500 for saying nothing.

Picture this for a scenario:
I let a friend of mine borrow my car, I will call him 'friend A'
Without my knowledge, 'friend A' lets his friend, who I will call 'friend B' drive my car
'Friend B' causes a 1V and de-camps from the scene in the vehicle
A witness records the plates of my car and informs police.

The police come knocking on my door, and I tell police that 'friend A' was driving, but 'friend A' says that 'friend B' was driving
I do not know who 'friend B' is, and 'friend A' claims that 'friend B' is someone who he doesn't know the name of.

What will happen then?

[scumdog]

Picture this for a scenario:
I let a friend of mine borrow my car, I will call him 'friend A'
Without my knowledge, 'friend A' lets his friend, who I will call 'friend B' drive my car
'Friend B' causes a 1V and de-camps from the scene in the vehicle
A witness records the plates of my car and informs police.

The police come knocking on my door, and I tell police that 'friend A' was driving, but 'friend A' says that 'friend B' was driving
I do not know who 'friend B' is, and 'friend A' claims that 'friend B' is someone who he doesn't know the name of.

What will happen then?

As mentioned above, possibly a $1,500 fine.

Of course that's not as bad as the $10,000 max.

(Fuck, the fuzz get shit like that all the time: "Aw, I dunno who was driving boss" even when said driver is standing beside them with the keys (screw-driver?) in his hands....big surprise, - people LIE man, they lie heaps..and then they wonder why the fuzz gets cynical..)

[SMOKEU]

As mentioned above, possibly a $1,500 fine.

Of course that's not as bad as the $10,000 max.

(Fuck, the fuzz get shit like that all the time: "Aw, I dunno who was driving boss" even when said driver is standing beside them with the keys (screw-driver?) in his hands....big surprise, - people LIE man, they lie heaps..and then they wonder why the fuzz gets cynical..)

Fair enough, the police must have the patience of a saint to put up with that kind of bullshit.

[Muppet]

Land Transport Act 1998 No 110 (as at 03 March 2010),

118 Owner or hirer or licence holder to give information as to identity of driver or passenger

(1) If an enforcement officer has reasonable cause to believe that the driver of a vehicle has committed an offence while in charge of the vehicle, the officer may request the owner or hirer of the vehicle to give all information in his or her possession or obtainable by him or her which may lead to the identification and apprehension of the driver of the vehicle.



Just remember this is the obligation. The offence is failing to furnsh those details. Failing means you didn't, whether you refused or your wife's mate didn't know who he lent the car to blah blah blah. As the owner you are responsible and it's you who gets charged. Cos the courts see this crap all the time they'll know what's going on and just fine yer!

[davereid]

After she returned home, she got a ticket in the mail. Speeding . The police had gotten her name etc from the rental car company. Not a bad one, but she knew that she was not the driver. She wrote and told them that , and told them who the actual driver was . Her acquaintance was happy to take the rap, and even wrote a letter , to accompany hers, admitting to the offence, providing details etc.

Mate, that has to be a "gimme" in court.

Prosecution. "We photographed a red Toyota speeding, blah blah it was registered to Sunny Day Car Rentals who told us Jane Doe was the hirer. "

Judge "Jane Doe what is your defence."

Jane "I was the hirer your honour, but I was not the driver. I told the police this but its me they are prosecuting anyway"

Judge "Can you prove this"

Jane "yes Fred was driving and he is here as a witness"

Judge " For fucks sake. Go home girl."

[Gremlin]

as muppet says, as the owner of the vehicle it is basically your responsibility to know who was driving at any time. Simply saying you don't know isn't going to fool anyone. Max is $10k and/or 3 months in jail I think.

[ukusa]

(Fuck, the fuzz get shit like that all the time: "Aw, I dunno who was driving boss" even when said driver is standing beside them with the keys (screw-driver?) in his hands....big surprise, - people LIE man, they lie heaps..and then they wonder why the fuzz gets cynical..)

It's a natural reaction isn't it? What's the main reason they lie? they don't want to pay a fine.
It might be bloody obvious they're guilty, but hey, who really loves parting with some of their hard earned?

My brother got a letter in the mail a few years ago saying he was observed "driving through a orange light". He was asked to provide the details of the driver. His reply was that it was a company car, and it could have been as many as 4 different people driving it that day, but there was no log book kept and it was a couple of weeks prior so no-one could remember. He supplied all the names. After about 3 or 4 letters later with threats, the original officer for some reason found the need to pass into onto a more senior officer to handle. Another couple of letters & a court date set, 6 months down the track the action was eventually withdrawn because of lack of evidence. Put in the too hard basket I think.

[miloking]

It's a natural reaction isn't it? What's the main reason they lie? they don't want to pay a fine.
It might be bloody obvious they're guilty, but hey, who really loves parting with some of their hard earned?

My brother got a letter in the mail a few years ago saying he was observed "driving through a orange light". He was asked to provide the details of the driver. His reply was that it was a company car, and it could have been as many as 4 different people driving it that day, but there was no log book kept and it was a couple of weeks prior so no-one could remember. He supplied all the names. After about 3 or 4 letters later with threats, the original officer for some reason found the need to pass into onto a more senior officer to handle. Another couple of letters & a court date set, 6 months down the track the action was eventually withdrawn because of lack of evidence. Put in the too hard basket I think.

Cool so all i need to do is live at the same address with four people that have motorcycle licence and each time any of us does a runner and cops come knocking on a door we will say we share that "one" bike and cant remember who had it that day :) Awesome...thanks guys lots of helpful info in this thread!

[ukusa]

Cool so all i need to do is live at the same address with four people that have motorcycle licence and each time any of us does a runner and cops come knocking on a door we will say we share that "one" bike and cant remember who had it that day :) Awesome...thanks guys lots of helpful info in this thread!
no chance for you miloboy, you would have to find 4 people willing to admit riding a Honda first.

[warewolf]

- the fuzz LIE man, they lie heaps..and then they wonder why people gets cynical..)Fixed. 

[miloking]

no chance for you miloboy, you would have to find 4 people willing to admit riding a Honda first.

touche :)

....

[SPman]

I looked in the mirror to see the one I did see.:blink: Yeah.....but all those motorists on the road. Who'da believed it.......

[scumdog]

Cool so all i need to do is live at the same address with four people that have motorcycle licence and each time any of us does a runner and cops come knocking on a door we will say we share that "one" bike and cant remember who had it that day :) Awesome...thanks guys lots of helpful info in this thread!

Goood one, it's worked for everybody that's ever tried it, you should definitely follow that plan...:shifty::rolleyes:

[Max Preload]

The offence of failing to identify is not a traffic matter, but is covered under some other act. From memory the penalty which has applied in the past is around $1500.

Same Act - Land Transport Act 1998 Section 118 (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1998/0110/latest/DLM435112.html).


5 X Defendants in a row, each refusing to say who was driving.

$1,500 fine each.

That's MY experience.


As mentioned above, possibly a $1,500 fine.

Of course that's not as bad as the $10,000 max.

$20,000 max - went up last year. (http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1998/0110/latest/DLM434682.html#DLM434682)