Bike Insurance Illusion

[Maha]

An insurance question was cleared up for me last night.
I have my bike insured for $13K and paying the calculated premium for that amount.

Now, I thought (and I was wrong) that if at any stage, the Honda was written off, my insurance company would pay out $13K.
Not so.
They pay out the ' Market Value' correct?
So, if say, I was to write my bike in five years, the insurance company would pay the market Value at the time?
Not the $13K I insured it for in 08'?

Would it be advisable to re-calculate the Market Value on the bike every year or so and pay the reduced premium that would surely follow?

[spookytooth]

or you could ask about agreed value coverage

[Cayman911]

thats only if you agree on the market value.

some insurance companies value it on an agreed value, lets say your 13k. and when its written off you get 13k. but that price is reviewed and adjusted yearly.so is your premiums...
much better than market value in my opinion

[Laava]

The insurance company should automatically do that for you. If you have agreed value at $13k they would pay that out but even then it gets iffy as I found out. They will reduce the agreed value each year automatically whether you agree or not and they will never pay more than the bike is worth on the due date of issue of annual premium. Notice also that the premiums do not reduce as dramatically as the value of the bike! You and me should start an insurance scam.......er, I mean company! Kiwibarker ins. You'd have to be barking to insure with us!

[Cayman911]

The insurance company should automatically do that for you. If you have agreed value at $13k they would pay that out but even then it gets iffy as I found out. They will reduce the agreed value each year automatically whether you agree or not

they dropped the value of my car after one year by about $15000, i went to them and said hey whats going on with this? thats BS and you know it. in nicer words ofcourse.
she reviewd it, made a few phonecalls. and said thats true. it should've only gone down by about 5000.

fixed.

so talking to them does actualy help sometimes

[Laava]

I had a similar experience but they, AMI, made me get a valuation which cost me over $100

[Maha]

The insurance company should automatically do that for you. If you have agreed value at $13k they would pay that out but even then it gets iffy as I found out. They will reduce the agreed value each year automatically whether you agree or not and they will never pay more than the bike is worth on the due date of issue of annual premium. Notice also that the premiums do not reduce as dramatically as the value of the bike! You and me should start an insurance scam.......er, I mean company! Kiwibarker ins. You'd have to be barking to insure with us!

Yeah as it is right now Al it wouldn't be advisable to reduce at this stage.
Not that I would do that at anytime I wouldn't think.
Some good feeback so far.
Any reduction wouldn't amount to anything like you say.
Its a quality bike and Hondas hold thier value :shifty:

Kiwibarker ins?....nice name stink slogan :rockon:

[cowboyz]

without preempting my own agendas......

My bike was insured for $5k. at renewal (about 6 months ago) the insurance company suggested it was underinsured and a new policy was taken out for $6k..... then I crashed it and all of a sudden ... its lucky to be worth $3k? Ahem.. something doesnt add up!

[Laava]

Kiwibarker ins?....nice name stink slogan :rockon:

Work on that one! I can see myself sitting feet up at a desk with my fat belly taking up all my lap, DECLINE stamp in one hand and incoming premiums in the other! Have to get a Harley! Oops, can't afford to insure!

[Maha]

without preempting my own agendas......

My bike was insured for $5k. at renewal (about 6 months ago) the insurance company suggested it was underinsured and a new policy was taken out for $6k..... then I crashed it and all of a sudden ... its lucky to be worth $3k? Ahem.. something doesnt add up!

Your plight is why I raised the question.

[Maha]

Work on that one! I can see myself sitting feet up at a desk with my fat belly taking up all my lap, DECLINE stamp in one hand and incoming premiums in the other! Have to get a Harley! Oops, can't afford to insure!

You would certainly need vicissitudes to kick in some time soon for that to become a reality. :blip:

[Corse1]

I watch sales prices and adjust mine accordingly each year the premiums come up. I discuss with Kiwibike and we agree on the value.
The proof will be in the pudding when its crashed or stolen on payout of agreed value I guess..............coz at the moments its just words!!

[Laava]

vicissitudes :blip:

Hahaha! I had to look that up! And I'm still not sure what it means!

[Maha]

Hahaha! I had to look that up! And I'm still not sure what it means!

Change of circumstance etc....but just drop it into any conversation and people just nod.....:shifty:

I had Mr Collins opened on page 1038 at the time of posting.

[Owl]

My bike was insured for $5k. at renewal (about 6 months ago) the insurance company suggested it was underinsured and a new policy was taken out for $6k..... then I crashed it and all of a sudden ... its lucky to be worth $3k? Ahem.. something doesnt add up!

So what does your own valuation say?

[Mom]

Yes indeedy there are traps for young players all over the show. Interestingly enough though, the premiums do not reduce in any way close to the amount that insurance companies will drop the market value at claim time :D

[Laava]

You want a job Mom? You can be the assessor! Assessing if the claims manager and all require coffee and cake etc!

[Maha]

or you could ask about agreed value coverage

So thats like say....insure for $10K and thats what you get, even if the bikes Market Value is under that?
Guess the premiums would be at a slightly higher rate?

[slofox]

In my experience, Insurance Companies are more than happy to have you pay premium on a value that they never intend to honour. And, they can be very reluctant to let you know just they would be prepared to pay out when you ask them. Believe me. I've been down that road before.

The only option is some kind of "replacement value" policy - if anyone does one for bikes. You can get such for houses and contents but I have my doubts about vehicles in general and bikes in parsnickular...and they still try to squeal their way out of it anyway.

[Maha]

Well, I have not long paid my annual premium so may look into it next time round.
On the other hand, I may have a different by then.

[Warr]

Kiwibike Ins. (Swan I think)
My experience was 20 year old bike insured for $3k, written off & paid out 3K less excess.

I queried them as to, what if my Insured Value was queried / deemed excessive.
Local bike shop said, no issue, & Swan said if I wasn't happy with the payout I could withdraw my claim, giving me the damaged bike back still with rego etc.

[hellokitty]

I am insured with Vero, they are not interested in what the bike is, what CC or anything - they just want to know what dollar value I am insuring it for.......
Unusual I thought, in fact they didn't even ask about what license I have!

[Mom]

You want a job Mom? You can be the assessor! Assessing if the claims manager and all require coffee and cake etc!

I wonder who will assess which one of the the staff will assess if my arse needs kissing by the claims manager and his cronies before they order cake in for themselves :D

[Rogue Rider]

without preempting my own agendas......

My bike was insured for $5k. at renewal (about 6 months ago) the insurance company suggested it was underinsured and a new policy was taken out for $6k..... then I crashed it and all of a sudden ... its lucky to be worth $3k? Ahem.. something doesnt add up!

I had an issue like that once with State insurance. After that I have always insured with companies who pay the agreed insurance amount. In saying that, I re calculate my insurance regularly to make sure I don't pay as much as little as possible without scrimping.
I am with AMI, they are a bit dearer, but the pay out straight away with no probs for what is insured for.
Classic cover is a good firm as well, they will insure at a reasonable rate too.

[breakaway]

I am insured with Vero, they are not interested in what the bike is, what CC or anything - they just want to know what dollar value I am insuring it for.......
Unusual I thought, in fact they didn't even ask about what license I have!

I wish you the very best of luck if you ever have to claim.

[Laava]

I wish you the very best of luck if you ever have to claim.

Agree, you need to be proactive here to save yourself some grief.
I am still with Classic Cover, after they paid out on our quite new bike. We got a hole punched thru the sump by road debris and they wrote it off. You get full replacement with brand new bike for the first year, so we found out. Very happy!

[hellokitty]

I wish you the very best of luck if you ever have to claim.

I got this insurance through Coleman's Suzuki when I bought a bike there last year - the excess is $300 compared to $1500 with IAG

[hellokitty]

I wish you the very best of luck if you ever have to claim.

I got this insurance through Coleman's Suzuki when I bought a bike there last year - the excess is $300 compared to $1500 with IAG

[Scotty595]

So Then... What happens when the bike goes up in value?

[DMNTD]

So, if say, I was to write my bike in five years, the insurance company would pay the market Value at the time?
Not the $13K I insured it for in 08'?

Would it be advisable to re-calculate the Market Value on the bike every year or so and pay the reduced premium that would surely follow?

100% advisable to recalculate your bikes' value every year(I can do it officially for you) so one can avoid potential BS when it comes to claim time.
No one can expect to get paid out what their bike was worth 5 years (an example) ago if they bin 'today.



My bike was insured for $5k. at renewal (about 6 months ago) the insurance company suggested it was under insured and a new policy was taken out for $6k..... then I crashed it and all of a sudden ... its lucky to be worth $3k? Ahem.. something doesn't add up!
Due to the fact that it was re insured a mere 6 months ago and the fact that the insurance company mentioned that it was under insured at $3,000, you re insured at the higher amount would suggest that you're correct...something isn't adding up :blink:

[jafar]

I wonder who will assess which one of the the staff will assess if my arse needs kicking by the claims manager and his cronies before they order cake in for themselves :D

fixed:done:

[Maha]

100% advisable to recalculate your bikes' value every year(I can do it officially for you) so one can avoid potential BS when it comes to claim time.
No one can expect to get paid out what their bike was worth 5 years (an example) ago if they bin 'today.


I am kinda thinking I should do that Chris.
One thing that bothered me a tad was, there was (probably still is) an 08' CB for sale at $9K, I should add its a private sale so Market Value doesn't really play a part? or does it?
Whereas, if that same bike was on a shop floor it could be up around the $12-13K mark?

So, would an insurance company base the Market Value on the 'average' asking price of any bike of the same year?

[Hanne]

In a similar vein, I bought my zzr250 for around $2k, 2 years later the 250 market had gone insane and bikes like mine (50,000km!) were selling for closer to $4k.
I rang insurance company to ask what happens if 'market value' rises, they drew a blank, telling me that was impossible.
So 'market value' has less to do with the resale value of a vehicle and more to do with the companies' formulas... luckily I never had to test how much I would actually get if anything happened...

[DMNTD]

I am kinda thinking I should do that Chris.
One thing that bothered me a tad was, there was (probably still is) an 08' CB for sale at $9K, I should add its a private sale so Market Value doesn't really play a part? or does it?
Whereas, if that same bike was on a shop floor it could be up around the $12-13K mark?

So, would an insurance company base the Market Value on the 'average' asking price of any bike of the same year?
When I create a valuation for a customer I take into account all of the 'market'.
Prime example...several months ago a poor bloke had his ZX14 stolen. Unfortunately a certain ZX14 was sold for around the $8,500 mark a week prior.
To me it was obvious that I wouldn't/couldn't take that particular sale into account simply because it was a "one off" ,a desperate sale.
I had a phone call from his insurance company querying the valuation I gave...I put them straight and the bloke was paid out at 'true' market value for his bike.

[dogsnbikes]

I am insured with Vero, they are not interested in what the bike is, what CC or anything - they just want to know what dollar value I am insuring it for.......
Unusual I thought, in fact they didn't even ask about what license I have!


I wish you the very best of luck if you ever have to claim.


Agree, you need to be proactive here to save yourself some grief.
I am still with Classic Cover, after they paid out on our quite new bike. We got a hole punched thru the sump by road debris and they wrote it off. You get full replacement with brand new bike for the first year, so we found out. Very happy!

I am with Classic cover and as I found out earlier this year,Vero are the underwritters for my policies.....

service was great when dealing with claim and once all the paperwork was faxed through,my claim was approved within 30 minutes

[Oscar]

Insurers aren't valuers.

If your bike is insured for market value, it's up to you to make sure that figure is correct.
This is particularly true after the first year as most insurers don't adjust sums insured - they can't really: imagine what we'd be saying if they reduced the sum insured too far.

Also the premium is not directly related to the sum insured - a percentage gets loaded to a base premium according to the value, and adjustments are made for other factors (excess, age, claims etc). This is why if you half the sum insured, you will not half the premium.

[cowboyz]

Insurers aren't valuers.

If your bike is insured for market value, it's up to you to make sure that figure is correct.
This is particularly true after the first year as most insurers don't adjust sums insured - they can't really: imagine what we'd be saying if they reduced the sum insured too far.

Also the premium is not directly related to the sum insured - a percentage gets loaded to a base premium according to the value, and adjustments are made for other factors (excess, age, claims etc). This is why if you half the sum insured, you will not half the premium.

Why shouldnt insurers be valuers? Isnt that in their interest? If someone come to me and said... hey.. Ill give you $10 a week and if i get mobbed by 1000 sheep on the way to the dairy I would want to know 2 things.. 1. what are the chances of this happening.. and 2. what is the maximum this could cost me.

the same thing that is wrong with insurers arent assesors either! They use bike shops time and money to do the job for them. This is so wrong. In fact, what do insurance companies do exactly? Little care.. Less responsibility?

[MarkH]

In a similar vein, I bought my zzr250 for around $2k, 2 years later the 250 market had gone insane and bikes like mine (50,000km!) were selling for closer to $4k.
I rang insurance company to ask what happens if 'market value' rises, they drew a blank, telling me that was impossible.
So 'market value' has less to do with the resale value of a vehicle and more to do with the companies' formulas... luckily I never had to test how much I would actually get if anything happened...

I think the problem was that you spoke to an imbecile. If you have a bike insured for $2K and you would have to spend $4K to replace it then you should have take it somewhere to get a valuation. If you take the valuation to your insurance company and tell them that is what your bike is worth and you want to increase your insurance cover to reflect that - it is hard to see them refusing the extra premium they could charge you. They are free to ring up and talk to your valuer and/or check with another valuer - but once satisfied that the value for your bike is correct then they have no reason not to agree to up the cover.

[Oscar]

Why shouldnt insurers be valuers? Isnt that in their interest? If someone come to me and said... hey.. Ill give you $10 a week and if i get mobbed by 1000 sheep on the way to the dairy I would want to know 2 things.. 1. what are the chances of this happening.. and 2. what is the maximum this could cost me.

the same thing that is wrong with insurers arent assesors either! They use bike shops time and money to do the job for them. This is so wrong. In fact, what do insurance companies do exactly? Little care.. Less responsibility?

The can't be Valuers or Assessors & Loss Adjusters because it's a conflict of interest.
I certainly wouldn't be happy if insurers were a) valuing my bike for me, and b) assessing the quantum of a claim. It's in their interest to minimize both.

And if you don't think they don't do much, don't insure.
Your choice.

[R-Soul]

No one can expect to get paid out what their bike was worth 5 years (an example) ago if they bin 'today.
[/B]

But hang on a mo. I bought my VTR on a good deal for $5,500 about a year ago. andI insured it for this amount (which has no probably gone down on "depreciation" by some 15% by now. But if I have a look around at the market value, there is no way that I could replace it with the same bike and same condition without spending anything less than about $6,500.

So how do I approch this?
Do I reinsure it for higher? The market value doesn't ALWAYS go down...

[R-Soul]

I think the problem was that you spoke to an imbecile. If you have a bike insured for $2K and you would have to spend $4K to replace it then you should have take it somewhere to get a valuation. If you take the valuation to your insurance company and tell them that is what your bike is worth and you want to increase your insurance cover to reflect that - it is hard to see them refusing the extra premium they could charge you. They are free to ring up and talk to your valuer and/or check with another valuer - but once satisfied that the value for your bike is correct then they have no reason not to agree to up the cover.

oops didn't see your post.

[cowboyz]

The can't be Valuers or Assessors & Loss Adjusters because it's a conflict of interest.
I certainly wouldn't be happy if insurers were a) valuing my bike for me, and b) assessing the quantum of a claim. It's in their interest to minimize both.

And if you don't think they don't do much, don't insure.
Your choice.

is that what agreed value is? The insurance company doing their job and agreeing on a value first? What I am saying is if you want to insure your FA50 for $250,000 AND an insurance company AGREE TO ACCEPT YOUR MONEY then if you crash the said FA50 and its uneconomical to repair, they should pay you $250,000 less excess. It would seem that the the 'insured value' is an UP TO value.. Bit like a briscoes sale really.. EVERYTHING is UP TO 50% off? Which means frk all whn you look at it.


Oh, and if I had been told right at the start, you know,,... when THEY said that my bike was undervalued that *I* valued at 5k and *they* valued at 6k (or up to 6k.. meaning 3k) then I would have gone.. nah.. flag it.

The really ironic thing about all this...
If I wasnt insured... I would have my bke back on the road already for about $500. But being as insurance want to muck around with it for over a month I am still bikeless.

[p.dath]

The really ironic thing about all this...
If I wasnt insured... I would have my bke back on the road already for about $500. But being as insurance want to muck around with it for over a month I am still bikeless.

I have to say, I've considered third party many times for the bike for this reason. Effectively you are self insuring, and just covering yourself for damage you do to someone else.

But last time I looked at it, the cost difference was minimal (indeed, some insurance companies charge *more* for third party on motorbikes than for full insurance).

[ukusa]

When I create a valuation for a customer I take into account all of the 'market'.
Prime example...several months ago a poor bloke had his ZX14 stolen. Unfortunately a certain ZX14 was sold for around the $8,500 mark a week prior.
To me it was obvious that I wouldn't/couldn't take that particular sale into account simply because it was a "one off" ,a desperate sale.
I had a phone call from his insurance company querying the valuation I gave...I put them straight and the bloke was paid out at 'true' market value for his bike.

So a true market value should be (in my opinion anyway) the price it will cost to purchase the same bike, same age, with the same accessories (after-markets included), with similar milage. It should also be based on a retail/shop price, as you should have the peace of mind of being able to buy your replacement at a bike shop.

[Mudfart]

im with STATE. they insured my truck for 15k some 5 years ago. i imagine seeing as its not some incredibly rare classic, that its now worth about 4k. THEY HAVE NOT DROPPED MY PREMIUMS, yet when I call, they acknowledge, they will only pay to the market value.
You must ring them constantly, or you pay big premiums, and you dont get your money back!!!!!!.
Im gonna call them now, and try this agreed value thing.

[ckai]

So a true market value should be (in my opinion anyway) the price it will cost to purchase the same bike, same age, with the same accessories (after-markets included), with similar milage. It should also be based on a retail/shop price, as you should have the peace of mind of being able to buy your replacement at a bike shop.

This is exactly how I choose the value of my bike when insuring. But then if you have some goodies, you need to tell the insurance fella's otherwise they won't cover them.

The "value" of anything is like anything that gets valued...fair and reasonable with both parties agreeing. It's not the average of the sale prices over a given period. It takes into account all sale prices and looks at the trend. So "one-off" sales get thrown out the window and so do the likes of desperate sales etc, unless of course the majority are "desperate" then this is the market value.

Shit, I did remember something from my valuation years at uni :)

In the past I had a car over insured for agreed value until I realised the business of insurance and worked out that no company in their right mind would pay out $6000 for an '85 Holden Gemini. I thought I was gonna strike it rich when it got bent! Then I woke up and changed it to $3k, then 2, then 3rd party :D You gotta be realistic about these things.

[DMNTD]

But hang on a mo. I bought my VTR on a good deal for $5,500 about a year ago. and I insured it for this amount (which has no probably gone down on "depreciation" by some 15% by now. But if I have a look around at the market value, there is no way that I could replace it with the same bike and same condition without spending anything less than about $6,500.

So how do I approach this?
Do I re insure it for higher? The market value doesn't ALWAYS go down...

Right...so you got a great deal to start with...cool.
However when insuring your bike you need to think about its replacement therefore insure it for its market value at the time of insuring it.
IE: I would have insured it for $6,500.

Re extra's (pipes etc): these should all be noted when insuring your bike or they will not be covered. Unfortunately 'extras' do not add their total 'value' to the bike's value.
However if not listed they simply just won't be taken into account if shit hits the bitumen

[DMNTD]

Why shouldnt insurers be valuers? ...

...because it would open them up to heaps of potential bollix.
All the insurance companies that I know of utilise an independant source (bike shop etc...usually 3 different ones) to cover their butts

[wysper]

But hang on a mo. I bought my VTR on a good deal for $5,500 about a year ago. andI insured it for this amount (which has no probably gone down on "depreciation" by some 15% by now. But if I have a look around at the market value, there is no way that I could replace it with the same bike and same condition without spending anything less than about $6,500.

So how do I approch this?
Do I reinsure it for higher? The market value doesn't ALWAYS go down...

You have to be careful with that too, some insurance companies will only pay out a maximum of what YOU PAID for it. So if you a) got a good deal b) work in the industry and got is at special pricing then sometimes market value is irrelevant. At least this was true when I was insuring something at home that I had got from my work at considerably less than retail. Being honest with them I told them what it had cost me and what it was worth. They said they would only cover what it cost me to replace it. Which was less than market value because I could get it at trade.

Fair enough I thought. But useful to know.

[cowboyz]

but my whole argument revolves around the price of te bike being set BEFORE the crash. compulsory agreed value if you like. Then I would have no problem at all with insurers going.. We think your bike is worth $3k. right o.. do you want to insure it for $3k with us. Think of the real compedtiion that would invoke? if you could not only shop around for the bext preimums but the best value overall.

An insurance company might offer a bit of a carrot and go.. well your a low risk.. we will insure you for $5000 instead of the $4000 that other insurance companies ar offering.

Of course, nothing would have to change.. It would just mean that full disclosure would have to open up to a 2 way street and then you will find a heap of people getting upset that their 2009 super machine is no longer insured for $20,000. Its now insured for $15000 which is all they would have paid out anyhow.

Clarity is what we are looking for!

[Oscar]

In respect of the title of this thread - it's not an illusion.

It's a contract that you make of your own free will, with your own hard earned money. The details are in the policy - READ THE BLOODY THING!

[DMNTD]

but my whole argument revolves around the price of te bike being set BEFORE the crash. compulsory agreed value if you like. Then I would have no problem at all with insurers going.. We think your bike is worth $3k. right o.. do you want to insure it for $3k with us. Think of the real competition that would invoke? if you could not only shop around for the best premiums but the best value overall.

An insurance company might offer a bit of a carrot and go.. well your a low risk.. we will insure you for $5000 instead of the $4000 that other insurance companies ar offering.

Of course, nothing would have to change.. It would just mean that full disclosure would have to open up to a 2 way street and then you will find a heap of people getting upset that their 2009 super machine is no longer insured for $20,000. Its now insured for $15000 which is all they would have paid out anyhow.

Clarity is what we are looking for!

Re clarity...this is why now days I do everything via email and save it as I too have had a bad experience from a large insurance company.
I do recommend that people get their bike valued prior to insuring it to help minimise bollix.

[Maha]

In respect of the title of this thread - it's not an illusion.

It's a contract that you make of your own free will, with your own hard earned money. The details are in the policy - READ THE BLOODY THING!

I was under the (false) illusion that you get paid out on the premium you have been paying for how ever long.
Not so as it turns out....that is why I included that word in the title....a personal thing.

[cowboyz]

In respect of the title of this thread - it's not an illusion.

It's a contract that you make of your own free will, with your own hard earned money. The details are in the policy - READ THE BLOODY THING!

hahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahaha

right.. tell me this..

In the 'contract' and I use that term loosely when talking about insurance, in my particular policy for my ROAD bike.. it stated that my excess is $250 for on road claim, $250 for off road claim, and $1000 for theft. Seems easy right?

So trackday comes up... and I tell my insurance company I going for a run round the track and they just pluck a $2000 excess figure out of thier arse.. Hold on.. Is the racetrack a road?? No?? So its off road then? no??? Because its paved? what is the reasoning here..? apart from... 'this is the way we do it!; ' hold on ... I thought I signed a 'contract' with you???

I never tested the theory and it never stopped me doing trackdays but always did want to take my road bike over to woodville motoX and see if I could claim on the $250 excess for off road crash after the first corner.

so again... insurance companies live in their own world... What puzzles me most is... the public let them!

[cowboyz]

I was under the (false) illusion that you get paid out on the premium you have been paying for how ever long.
Not so as it turns out....that is why I included that word in the title....a personal thing.

and where the illusion comes in is if you under insure your bike!

bike insured for $15000.. market value 12k.. payout 12k.
bike insured fr $10k.. market value 12k.. payout 10k

Its not market value... Its actually... market value UP TO insured value! Of course, if at the time you take out insurance you ask them what they would be willing to payout if you crash they cant give you a figure because 'its a conflict of interest for them to value your bike!'


They say the proof of insanity is that you feel like your the only sane person left in the world!

[Gremlin]

very few of the bike companies do agreed value, as I went through this. Bike is insured for more than retail, but less than that plus accessories. The long list specifically states all extras, but still had a hard slog getting the value accepted (and still, who knows come claim time). Next year, bike will have a big drop in value, parts will not be covered, and will be removed before company gets bike, should Shit happen.

[Oscar]

hahhahahahhahahahhahahahhahaha

right.. tell me this..

In the 'contract' and I use that term loosely when talking about insurance, in my particular policy for my ROAD bike.. it stated that my excess is $250 for on road claim, $250 for off road claim, and $1000 for theft. Seems easy right?

So trackday comes up... and I tell my insurance company I going for a run round the track and they just pluck a $2000 excess figure out of thier arse.. Hold on.. Is the racetrack a road?? No?? So its off road then? no??? Because its paved? what is the reasoning here..? apart from... 'this is the way we do it!; ' hold on ... I thought I signed a 'contract' with you???

I never tested the theory and it never stopped me doing trackdays but always did want to take my road bike over to woodville motoX and see if I could claim on the $250 excess for off road crash after the first corner.

so again... insurance companies live in their own world... What puzzles me most is... the public let them!


They can't just make up an excess - it breaches the Insurance Law Reform Act
Did you tell them that you were going to use it on the track?
It's not the fact that your on the road (paved or otherwise) that is the point, it's your use of the vehicle. If you read your policy it will define what is covered in terms of usage including racing, practising or training.



Basically what has happened is that you've changed the terms of the contract (I'll bet you didn't mention trackdays on the original proposal), leaving them free to impose whatever excess they think fits.

[Oscar]

and where the illusion comes in is if you under insure your bike!

bike insured for $15000.. market value 12k.. payout 12k.
bike insured fr $10k.. market value 12k.. payout 10k

Its not market value... Its actually... market value UP TO insured value! Of course, if at the time you take out insurance you ask them what they would be willing to payout if you crash they cant give you a figure because 'its a conflict of interest for them to value your bike!'


They say the proof of insanity is that you feel like your the only sane person left in the world!

Actually there are a few insurers that will pay more than the insured value should the market value warrant it.

[cowboyz]

Actually there are a few insurers that will pay more than the insured value should the market value warrant it.

not many... if any.........

[breakaway]

This is fucked up. I can't believe how many of you are happy forking your money over for 'insurance' but have no idea what will happen in the event of a prang.

One would have assumed that one would discuss all these issues with the companies before signing anything!

[cowboyz]

They can't just make up an excess - it breaches the Insurance Law Reform Act
Did you tell them that you were going to use it on the track?
It's not the fact that your on the road (paved or otherwise) that is the point, it's your use of the vehicle. If you read your policy it will define what is covered in terms of usage including racing, practising or training.



Basically what has happened is that you've changed the terms of the contract (I'll bet you didn't mention trackdays on the original proposal), leaving them free to impose whatever excess they think fits.

not at all! I was completely upfront about what I use the bike for. And I specifically mentioned the trackdays at time of purchase and it was a 'we will lok at that by a case by case basis.... as in .. if we decide to honour our part of the contract at the time or not. No discussion, in voice or in writing was made reguarding to excesses. It was only after they imposed the $2k excess where I questioned it to find that its 'common practice''. You talk to anyone who does trackdays.. esp on expensive bikes and they will tell you its acceptable that insurance companies charge between $2k-$4k for an excess for track - eventhough its not in their policy becuase tracks are dangerous and the risk is soo much higher. (another point I argue because the whole point of going to a track is to go fast in a safe environment)

The point is... Its only illegal if someone challenges it and its too troublesome/expensive to bother challenging it. You can jump up and down about insurance law reform acts all you want but that doesnt stop 'common practice'

[cowboyz]

This is fucked up. I can't believe how many of you are happy forking your money over for 'insurance' but have no idea what will happen in the event of a prang.

One would have assumed that one would discuss all these issues with the companies before signing anything!

discuss all you want.. its all a bunch of fluffies and yeah.. we will pay out if you crash.. no hassles.. remove all hassles blah blah blah... until...................................

[Owl]

...because it would open them up to heaps of potential bollix.
All the insurance companies that I know of utilise an independant source (bike shop etc...usually 3 different ones) to cover their butts

And if all else fails, they'll use the local dickhead tow truck driver.

No, I'm not kidding either!:no:

[Pegasus]

and where the illusion comes in is if you under insure your bike!

bike insured for $15000.. market value 12k.. payout 12k.
bike insured fr $10k.. market value 12k.. payout 10k

Its not market value... Its actually... market value UP TO insured value! Of course, if at the time you take out insurance you ask them what they would be willing to payout if you crash they cant give you a figure because 'its a conflict of interest for them to value your bike!'


They say the proof of insanity is that you feel like your the only sane person left in the world!

You are close, but if as you used above your bike were worth 12K, and you only insured it for 10K, the Insurer would only pay you out 10. But once they start to "recover" the loss (sell the wreck etc) you are entitled to be indemnified before they are, therefore you could get more than the 10K depending on the situation.

A side note, was it your Broker who advised you to increase the value at renewal, and do you have it in writing?

[Gremlin]

I can't believe how many of you are happy forking your money over for 'insurance' but have no idea what will happen in the event of a prang.
No no, its quite simple. I'm going along :scooter:, have a bit of a :shit: and I need to call insurance :mobile:

We talk a bit, they do a bit of :buggerd: I :crybaby: and :wait: and eventually I'm :ride: again

:niceone:

[DMNTD]

And if all else fails, they'll use the local dickhead tow truck driver.

No, I'm not kidding either!:no:

Oh fark that! Way too easy to challenge his "valueation"

[Owl]

Oh fark that! Way too easy to challenge his "valueation"

We did and got it dropped, but at the price of dropping our highest valuation. His PAV was about $3K lower than the third highest, therefore way out of the ball park. Vehicle was insured for $8K.

[Logpot]

If the motorcycle is uneconomic to repair in our opinion,

we’ll:

1. pay you the sum insured, if the motorcycle was in a

good and well maintained condition in our opinion when

the loss happened, or

2. pay you the market value up to the sum insured, if

the motorcycle was not in a good and well maintained

condition in our opinion when the loss happened, or

3. replace the motorcycle with a new one, as long as:

(a) the loss happened within 12-months of you buying

the motorcycle new, and

(b) the same model and specification is available in New

Zealand.

I need to find out how the deem that the motorcycle was in a good and well maintained condition :confused:

[R-Soul]

Also I dont get this:

I insure the bike (for argument sake) at $5000 initially. The next year, they drop its market vaue by 15% for "depreciation'(despite this being bollox as it probably is worth the same or very similar) . So they will only pay $4250 now. But after that year, they have raised your premiums (to account for inflation of about 5%), so that you are paying more for less cover.

[breakaway]

Can't you just tell them to pay out on market value? That way at least you can be sure you will be able to replace your bike.

[Crisis management]

Can't you just tell them to pay out on market value? That way at least you can be sure you will be able to replace your bike.

Just a point here, I have always understood "market value" for insurance purposes to be the amount a bike shop will pay you for your bike if you wander in and say "I want to sell this to you"....not the price the bike shop will sell you the same bike for. There is a substantial difference in those figures.

[breakaway]

You understood wrong then. When I had my bike valued after a not at fault prang, they valued it at what they'd sell it for. Market value, by definition, is what a bike sells for. Not how much you'd get if you tried to sell it / trade it in. Damn, aren't/weren't you in business? Shouldn't you know this shit?

[Oscar]

Just a point here, I have always understood "market value" for insurance purposes to be the amount a bike shop will pay you for your bike if you wander in and say "I want to sell this to you"....not the price the bike shop will sell you the same bike for. There is a substantial difference in those figures.

Market value is supposed to represent the full retail cost of the vehicle.

When I was a broker, I got into an argument (not like me, I know) with an Assessor about the value of a car that had been stolen. The client insisted that it was worth 10k, and the Assessor made the mistake of saying that his valuation of 8.5k was based on prices from three local car dealers and you could buy one for that price in Auckland, no sweat.

I said, fine - my client will settle for one of those, could you direct us to their yards?
My client got a cheque for $9,500.

[Crisis management]

Damn, aren't/weren't you in business? Shouldn't you know this shit?

Wasn't me mister....just a simple pleb like you...where's Oscar?

Edit.....Shit, that was quick Oscar, obviously I am misinformed!

[breakaway]

Good stuff Oscar.

People who have insurance need to know that if your shit gets fucked up, often, it's not a case of just making a call and a new bike's in your driveway. Often, they will bitch about value and all sorts of shit and string it out for months.

A lot of them have a rosy picture of how it works. Just pay the money and forget about it until your shit gets messed up. More often than not, your shit doesn't get messed up.

The Insurance company business model is based on the fact that you keep paying premium and don't have any prangs. And boy, does it work well.

[Oscar]

Good stuff Oscar.

People who have insurance need to know that if your shit gets fucked up, often, it's not a case of just making a call and a new bike's in your driveway. Often, they will bitch about value and all sorts of shit and string it out for months.

A lot of them have a rosy picture of how it works. Just pay the money and forget about it until your shit gets messed up. More often than not, your shit doesn't get messed up.

The Insurance company business model is based on the fact that you keep paying premium and don't have any prangs. And boy, does it work well.

If you make a claim, always keep records.

If you are speaking to a claims person or Loss Adjuster in person or on the phone, get their e-mail address. When you've finished, send them an e-mail and ask them to confirm your understanding of the conversation. Actually this is summat you should do in any negotiation.

Before you speak to someone, check the policy wording. Off the cuff remarks guarantee confusion.

If you're getting the run around, politely but firmly ask for the Managers/Supervisors e-mail address and copy them in. The squeaky wheel gets their claim paid.

[Shaun]

An insurance question was cleared up for me last night.
I have my bike insured for $13K and paying the calculated premium for that amount.

Now, I thought (and I was wrong) that if at any stage, the Honda was written off, my insurance company would pay out $13K.
Not so.
They pay out the ' Market Value' correct?
So, if say, I was to write my bike in five years, the insurance company would pay the market Value at the time?
Not the $13K I insured it for in 08'?

Would it be advisable to re-calculate the Market Value on the bike every year or so and pay the reduced premium that would surely follow?



I would contact Dave at Kiwibike Insurance direct mate, Dave is very honest

0800-629253

[Owl]

Dave is very honest

That's a matter of opinion, but not necessarily fact.

[Gremlin]

poor dave, he reads kb! Or at least gets told about it. He is indeed matter of fact, I think he's real good... But that's just my opinion aye? :bleh:

[p.dath]

I would contact Dave at Kiwibike Insurance direct mate, Dave is very honest

0800-629253

+1. I've found Dave at Kiwibike to be excellent.

[Motig]

Agreed value is what I always do with my vehicles. So much easier.