GSXR400/1135 hybrid race bike '80s

[sidecar bob]

Does anyone remember a bike that was raced in Australia in the 80's that appeared to be a GSXR 400 with an 1135EF engine in it?
Im curious to know more about it. Who built it, who rode it, was it competitive, & what became of it.

[Billy]

Does anyone remember a bike that was raced in Australia in the 80's that appeared to be a GSXR 400 with an 1135EF engine in it?
Im curious to know more about it. Who built it, who rode it, was it competitive, & what became of it.

Yip,As I recall it was the beginning of their superbike class,Was piloted by Robbie Phillis,Dont remember who built it though,I remember a write up in the Two Wheels mag about it,Try contacting them

[BIG DOUG]

Hmm was it action suzuki or mick hone,yea remember robbie riding it in the swan series I think.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Wot he says I think

[Kickaha]

I remember a write up in the Two Wheels mag about it

I think I have that article somewhere, only a couple of hundred magazines to look through

[burtsidecar16]

did you want me to get robbies phone number bob then you can talk to him about it

[Dadpole]

Tell me more. I happen to have one of those engines around here somewhere. A certain Croc in Akld will be watching with interest too

[sidecar bob]

Thanks everyone for your answers.
If you could draw his attention to this thread Burt, that would be great.
Its as if this thing never existed. Ive googeled every possible combination of Phyllis, Suzuki, Hybrid GSXR400 etc etc & turned up nothing.
Im very interested to know wether it was a success or an ill mannered lemon, & wether a replica of it would be eligible for pre '89 recing.

[Crasherfromwayback]

.
Im very interested to know wether it was a success or an ill mannered lemon, & wether a replica of it would be eligible for pre '89 recing.

I believe they had all sorts of 'handling' issues if my memory serves me correctly. And I'm not surprised. Even the (much stronger) GSXR750 frame freaked when Suzuki put an 1100 donk into it. Hence the GSXR1100 frame is much beefier than the 750's.

[Grumph]

The works raced an aluminium framed 1000 in TTF1 - then I think reengined them with 750's.
Saw one of the chassis used in a readers special in PB years ago - looked just like a GSXR400.
Wouldn't surprise me if the one in OZ was ex works.
The poms persist in calling them by XR numbers - memory says XR72 ?
Stil got the PB here somewhere, I'll have a look.

[Grumph]

Found the article - PB Jan 88. They call it an XR69 but it's in fabricated alloy not the steel tube the "classic" XR69 is usually seen in - maybe an "evolution version" ?
Monoshock with the 8 valve 1000 originally.
In side view it looks just like a braced GSXR400/early GSXR 750
Some searching turned up the XR41 - alloy framed prototype of the GSXR which may be what you're looking for as the 400 was pretty much identical.
If an XR41 got to OZ it wouldn't have been unreasonable for a 16v motor to go in - but don't forget they still had a 1000cc top limit at the time.

[malcy25]

The bike originally asked about was built by by Action Suzuki for I think the 84 or 85 Swann Series in Aussie. Phillis rode it. was a GSXR400 frane etc (some spweccy forks IIRC) with a worked and oversize GSX750ESD (not 1100) engine fitted. Was none too reliable as the engine continually over heated. Not sure if it got used much after that. Have some video footage of it in the family files.

[malcy25]

http://liveimages.editorial.carsales.com.au/bikepoint/general/editorial/ge4820182846080836364.jpg

[sidecar bob]

Thanks for that Malcy, wondering if you can youtube the footage sometime.

[malcy25]

Unfortunately the tape (yikes, I shoulfd fix that!) is about 5000 miles away. I watch it about once a year!

[jellywrestler]

combination of Phyllis, Suzuki, Hybrid GSXR400 etc etc & turned up nothing.
try again with Phillis as the correct spelling Bob

[sidecar bob]

Big thanks to KB member Robin m, i am now in possesion of an immaculate copy of Revs Jan '85 which includes an in depth test of the bike in question.
Sweet as, Thanks Robin.

[roadracingoldfart]

Big thanks to KB member Robin m, i am now in possesion of an immaculate copy of Revs Jan '85 which includes an in depth test of the bike in question.
Sweet as, Thanks Robin.


Well share it man , share it.

[slowpoke]

Big thanks to KB member Robin m, i am now in possesion of an immaculate copy of Revs Jan '85 which includes an in depth test of the bike in question.
Sweet as, Thanks Robin.

19 80 fucking 5.....jaysus, that's a scary long time ago for someone who can remember seeing pic's of the bike at the time.........I s'pose I should at least be happy I can still remember it.

Now if I could just remember where I put my dentures this morning.........hmmmm, prolly find 'em in the fridge and the cat food next to the bed....again.

[sidecar bob]

Hoping someone may have further information on this bike since I last asked.
Im about ready to build a replica of it after I finish restoring Kasper, the ex Bill Biber K100 race bike.

[nodrog]

meanwhile, a little Katana waits.....

[sidecar bob]

meanwhile, a little Katana waits.....

I can do two at once. :yes:

[Grumph]

Hoping someone may have further information on this bike since I last asked.
Im about ready to build a replica of it after I finish restoring Kasper, the ex Bill Biber K100 race bike.

Going to use a big 750 or the bigger lump 1135 ?
Even with the 750's known problems you could end up with something very like Gary Jamieson's Moriwaki Honda 750...which ain't slow.

[sidecar bob]

Going to use a big 750 or the bigger lump 1135 ?
Even with the 750's known problems you could end up with something very like Gary Jamieson's Moriwaki Honda 750...which ain't slow.

I have a complete 1135 engine, but I also know where a 750 pop up Katana engine is that I may be able to get.
If they are physically the same size I may just cheat & chuck it the 1135 engine, even though the original had an ESD 750 engine out to 997.

[Katman]

meanwhile, a little Katana waits.....

Well you're not getting any of mine.

[malcy25]

Bob,

Brefriend Rob Phillis on Facebook - I believe he may still has the original that was built by Chris Dowde and Action Suzuki in his garage?

I recall it was a GSX750ESD motor out to a 1000 and ran really hot.

[sidecar bob]

Well you're not getting any of mine.

I have sufficient, believe me.

[sidecar bob]

Bob,

Brefriend Rob Phillis on Facebook - I believe he may still has the original that was built by Chris Dowde and Action Suzuki in his garage?

I recall it was a GSX750ESD motor out to a 1000 and ran really hot.

Cheers, Im in contact with Rob by other means.

[nodrog]

Cheers, Im in contact with Rob by other means.

prayer?
____

[Katman]

I have sufficient, believe me.

I scored me a very tidy 750 the other day.

[sidecar bob]

prayer?
____

No, I tend to go for a more plausible means of two way communication.

[Grumph]

I scored me a very tidy 750 the other day.

Couple of months ago i pointed a guy at a popup 750 I'd been hoping a customer would buy and turn into an 1100....At least it will be done now, just not by me, bugger.

Bob, I have the feeling that the 1135 may well prove to be just too big physically.

[sidecar bob]

Bob, I have the feeling that the 1135 may well prove to be just too big physically.

It would be funny though.

[Katman]

Couple of months ago i pointed a guy at a popup 750 I'd been hoping a customer would buy and turn into an 1100....At least it will be done now, just not by me, bugger.

Mine's the '81 version.

[husaberg]

400 framed big motor.

I have a couple of pics of it somewhere including it being pushed by sphilis
I thought it said it was a 750?

[sidecar bob]

I have a couple of pics of it somewhere including it being pushed by sphilis
I thought it said it was a 750?

Yep, 750 out to 998. Care to post the pics up?

[nodrog]

No, I tend to go for a more plausible means of two way communication.

Oh, oijua board.

[husaberg]

Yep, 750 out to 998. Care to post the pics up?

I actually found the mag but sorry its the EF framed version Dam.
I def have mags where it is mentioned including a Aussie road test of a GSXR400.
its just a question of where.
One thing i do remember is the mag where it is mentioned is a road test of a GSXR400 called Decapiston Demon.
GK71.
you should scan and post the revs article though.

[husaberg]

Mentions of it
http://www.gixxer.com/forums/15-oil-cooled-gixxers/459754-gixxer-his-baby-brother.html

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/15-oil-cooled-gixxers/327355-not-quite-gsx-r-but-way-go.html

http://www.speedzilla.com/forums/street-track/7766-look-what-i-cant-buy.html

https://netrider.net.au/threads/yamaha-rz500-project-bike.147296/

https://motomatters.com/news/2011/12/23/motogp_silly_season_2013_starts_early_ya.html

I will scan the bit in the GSXR400 but alll it says is that Rob Shored horned a F1 750 engine in for the first round of the Swan Series.
If the idea of it was just to do a hot rod.
I would rather a FZR1000 engine in a FZR400 which is suposed to be a near bolt in.
Bob scan and post up the mag.

[Shaun Harris]

I happen to have a complete GSXR400 GK76a bike here if you need one

[sidecar bob]

I happen to have a complete GSXR400 GK76a bike here if you need one

Is it that the first model & is it mainly black? Because that's what is needed.

[husaberg]

No.....................GK71 is what you need.
http://www.suzukicycles.org/GSX-R-series/GSX-R400.shtml
*Note the last attachment.
I have dealt with Simon quite a few times he is easy to deal with.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/parts-for-sale/wrecking-bikes/auction-952671285.htm
note what else he has
If you are building a race bike all you will need is tank and frame swingarm maybe yokes and forks

[sidecar bob]

No.....................GK71 is what you need.
If you are building a race bike all you will need is tank and frame swingarm maybe yokes and forks

You're an incredible source of information.
Hoping to get what's left of the original, otherwise I'll start on my own.
The ball is rolling, very slowly.

[husaberg]

You're an incredible source of information.
Hoping to get what's left of the original, otherwise I'll start on my own.
The ball is rolling, very slowly.

Have a look at this, better than a still picture a movie.
https://youtu.be/gMqaZeHFiP4
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/gMqaZeHFiP4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/R4yZVJw8Tk4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Mercury outboard magneto mounted behind the cylinders.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/kLf-N7v0z74" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[sidecar bob]

Apart from having just bought a mint 17,000km gk71b gsxr400 a couple of weeks ago for my wife to ride, I got this last night, so I have a start point for the project.http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=965825739
I have also been offered a couple of 750esd engines, same as pop up katana.
Am catching up with Phillis this weekend as well, so things should start moving along.

[scrivy]

Cheers, Im in contact with Rob by other means.

Reach around???? :eek::devil2:

Define contact........ :bleh:

[scrivy]

I can do two at once. :yes:

Mass bukkake??:cool:

But would that be 2 BFHM??

[sidecar bob]

Mass bukkake??:cool:

But would that be 2 BFHM??

Theres always one sick cunt & its usually you.:niceone:

[Shaun Harris]

Apart from having just bought a mint 17,000km gk71b gsxr400 a couple of weeks ago for my wife to ride, I got this last night, so I have a start point for the project.http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=965825739
I have also been offered a couple of 750esd engines, same as pop up katana.
Am catching up with Phillis this weekend as well, so things should start moving along.


I was just quoted $400-00 for set of needle valves and floats for the one I have here. Some one has fucked with the float heights on this one and there is NO recoreded data ( Apart from forums, and fuk them ) setting for them. Yes I could play around and find a setting that works, but as you know, time is money, and the needles do not seat, have tried the old soaking trick, but still a no go bugger it.

[sidecar bob]

I was just quoted $400-00 for set of needle valves and floats for the one I have here. Some one has fucked with the float heights on this one and there is NO recoreded data ( Apart from forums, and fuk them ) setting for them. Yes I could play around and find a setting that works, but as you know, time is money, and the needles do not seat, have tried the old soaking trick, but still a no go bugger it.

Is yours a twin carb? if so these ones are for sale or swap something useful for the build.
I also have a genuine Suzuki workshop & setup manual for 84-85 GK71B.

[husaberg]

Apart from having just bought a mint 17,000km gk71b gsxr400 a couple of weeks ago for my wife to ride, I got this last night, so I have a start point for the project.http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=965825739
I have also been offered a couple of 750esd engines, same as pop up katana.
Am catching up with Phillis this weekend as well, so things should start moving along.

How hard is the mercury magneto to find? there is a guy that posts on the ese thread that was right into outboards in that period.
I'm still keen to see the magazine article on it.

[husaberg]

I was just quoted $400-00 for set of needle valves and floats for the one I have here. Some one has fucked with the float heights on this one and there is NO recoreded data ( Apart from forums, and fuk them ) setting for them. Yes I could play around and find a setting that works, but as you know, time is money, and the needles do not seat, have tried the old soaking trick, but still a no go bugger it.

Have a look at the sudco site (longshot as they likely didn't go into the states)
http://www.sudco.com/CatalogDigital.html
looks like all the other Suzukis with mikunis only used a few different seats and needles but good knows what's in those twin barrel ones. pop one open and post a pic with the measurements

Also there is a crowd that advertises on Ebay they sells a lot of stuff like that Keystone or something they also have a pic of a half naked woman.
http://www.keyster.jp/product_e.htm (page appears down) but its a Japanese company so they should do them?


There is another crowd to but can't remember where at the moment.

[scrivy]

Oh, oijua board.

I got it..... I reckon it's docking..... :niceone::lol:

[nodrog]

..... I got this last night, so I have a start point for the project.http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=965825739
......

has it got a clutch lever?


I got it..... I reckon it's docking..... :niceone::lol:

space docking?

[sidecar bob]

has it got a clutch lever?


I don't know, you will have to drive to Waitakere & tell me.

[Shaun Harris]

Is yours a twin carb? if so these ones are for sale or swap something useful for the build.
I also have a genuine Suzuki workshop & setup manual for 84-85 GK71B.


nah m8, bank of four, and mine is a GK76a cheers

[Shaun Harris]

Have a look at the sudco site (longshot as they likely didn't go into the states)
Also there is a crowd that advertises on Ebay they sells a lot of stuff like that Keystone or something they also have a pic of a half naked woman.
http://www.keyster.jp/product_e.htm (page appears down) but its a Japanese company so they should do them?


There is another crowd to but can't remember where at the moment.





cheers man

[husaberg]

cheers man

Is it the twin barrelled carb model or the std looking carbs.
Cause if its the std looking carbs they should be pretty cheaply available as I doubt they are model specific
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-CARBURETOR-FLOAT-NEEDLE-VALVE-SUZUKI-GSXR1100-GSXR-1100-GV1200-MADURA-GS1000-/231473209121?fits=Model%3AGSXR1100
like these.

the best way i know of figuring out what worls is to go to the parts fiche find the part number and then do a search on that part number to see what else uses it.
You might find it is the same part number as say a GS500 and then they are available everywhere aftermarket in the states.

[Grumph]

Either stay away from the mercury mag or use it as a carrier for the trigger for an electronic ignition. I wouldn't mind betting that when you talk to Rob he says much the same thing.
Biggest problem with the 750 is making the bottom end reliable.

Shaun, has Terry's boy still got the manuals and info Terry accumulated ? Worth asking...

[husaberg]

Either stay away from the mercury mag or use it as a carrier for the trigger for an electronic ignition. I wouldn't mind betting that when you talk to Rob he says much the same thing.
Biggest problem with the 750 is making the bottom end reliable.

Shaun, has Terry's boy still got the manuals and info Terry accumulated ? Worth asking...

The mercury or what ever mag was mounted ARD style by the look of it behind the block to slim up the motor but pretty easy to dummy up. As Grumph said
It was mentioned in the Video I posted I think.

[Shaun Harris]

Is it the twin barrelled carb model or the std looking carbs.
Cause if its the std looking carbs they should be pretty cheaply available as I doubt they are model specific
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-CARBURETOR-FLOAT-NEEDLE-VALVE-SUZUKI-GSXR1100-GSXR-1100-GV1200-MADURA-GS1000-/231473209121?fits=Model%3AGSXR1100
like these.

the best way i know of figuring out what worls is to go to the parts fiche find the part number and then do a search on that part number to see what else uses it.
You might find it is the same part number as say a GS500 and then they are available everywhere aftermarket in the states.



Cheers for your posts, I had already ordered them through a friend at his cost, so all done now, but thanks again. The rest of your feed back I understand man, been doing the same thing for many moons now bro

[sidecar bob]

I found this, which puts my fear to rest that it may have handled like a pig.
https://www.facebook.com/post.classic.3/posts/1472827293031693
With the removable r/h lower frame tube, I will attempt to put the stripped frame on to the motor(1135 to start with) & see if it fits, as its probably easier to wield 8kg's of frame than 100kg's of engine.

[husaberg]

I found this, which puts my fear to rest that it may have handled like a pig.
https://www.facebook.com/post.classic.3/posts/1472827293031693
With the removable r/h lower frame tube, I will attempt to put the stripped frame on to the motor(1135 to start with) & see if it fits, as its probably easier to wield 8kg's of frame than 100kg's of engine.

It handled "Horn":niceone:
316934316935

[sidecar bob]

:D:D
It handled "Horn":niceone:


Horn will be near enough for me.:eek:
Robbie told me to put 17's on it on the weekend, he rekoned building a bike you can buy tyres for is more important than building an authentic replica.
Seeing as it came from him I've taken that on board.

[husaberg]

Horn will be near enough for me.
Robbie told me to put 17's on it on the weekend, he rekond building a bike you can buy tyres for is mor important than building an authentic replica.
Seeing as it came from him I've taken that on board.

It had a 16 on the front and a 18 on the rear by the time that you take into account the tyre widths and profile changes onto modern 17's it will have the same ground clearance. Question is what forks and wheels did the original run anyway?

Do you know what the SSX400 had 17 front and rear in 125GP/ MOTO 3 sizes anyway.
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gallery%20%20A/Suzuki%20GSX%20400x%2086.jpg

Front Tyre
110/80-17

Rear Tyre
130/80-17

Close enough looking if it had std wheels and the same widths or maybe wider than a GSX1100ef of the era
http://suzukigsxr.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/1984-Suzuki-GSXR-400-1.jpg

Koosman used to widen std GSXR wheels in the states the same way as they used to do steel car wheels here in the 70's and 80's.
He even used to even change the sizes using different beads

[Grumph]

The advice from Rob to use 17's is pragmatic - and realistic. Also I believe he loves the Moriwaki on 17's rather than the original 18's...

i wouldn't use Impulse rims even if they look like what was used. From memory they're 3 inch front and 3.5 rear, but more importantly the wheel bearings are too close together. On a light bike, no problem, heavy bike and they cut out quickly cos of the narrow load bearing base. Saw it frequently in the 90's when scrutineering as they were a popular wheel to use.
At the time I'd think the original bike used the GSXR400 forks. They're 38mm stanchions and actually a pretty good fork even if they have a crude anti dive.
My 500 kawasaki F3 bike uses those sliders on the Kawa stanchions to get twin disc fitting.

[malcy25]

:D:D

Horn will be near enough for me.:eek:
Robbie told me to put 17's on it on the weekend, he rekoned building a bike you can buy tyres for is more important than building an authentic replica.
Seeing as it came from him I've taken that on board.

yep....I've got to know well the man who helped write the Aussie Pre 82 rules years ago. He said they allowed 17 inch wheels in to give riders a sporting chance of staying upright and not hurting themselves. His view was that 17's would give the grip to go with the motors they would inevitably build (usually first, before the chassis....)

[husaberg]

The advice from Rob to use 17's is pragmatic - and realistic. Also I believe he loves the Moriwaki on 17's rather than the original 18's...

i wouldn't use Impulse rims even if they look like what was used. From memory they're 3 inch front and 3.5 rear, but more importantly the wheel bearings are too close together. On a light bike, no problem, heavy bike and they cut out quickly cos of the narrow load bearing base. Saw it frequently in the 90's when scrutineering as they were a popular wheel to use.
At the time I'd think the original bike used the GSXR400 forks. They're 38mm stanchions and actually a pretty good fork even if they have a crude anti dive.
My 500 kawasaki F3 bike uses those sliders on the Kawa stanchions to get twin disc fitting.

Personally I am more concerned with Bobs bike looking right, rather than his personal safety.:shifty:
Why the heck did they use impulse wheels on other bikes (when they didn't have too) they are bloody ugly.
Was it just because all the original impulses engines had fried their alternators?

The RG500 Had a 17 inch rear rim but it looks narrower than a Impulse as it carried a 120 tyre.



Found these GSX600-F 88-97
Front tyre: 110/80-17
Rear tyre: 140/80-17
316949316950

[husaberg]

this is the air cooled bike Grumph was referring to ealier
it had the air cooled GSX1000 donk in a works frame in 1984

Its called the XR41
http://www.good-bits.co.uk/2015/02/suzuki-xr41-gs1000r-f1/
http://www.good-bits.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/IMG_4883.jpg
http://www.good-bits.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/IMG_4883.jpg
http://www.good-bits.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/IMG_4857.jpg

[Kickaha]

i wouldn't use Impulse rims even if they look like what was used. From memory they're 3 inch front and 3.5 rear,.
Pretty sure the front is 2.5

[Grumph]

Personally I am more concerned with Bobs bike looking right, rather than his personal safety.:shifty:
Why the heck did they use impulse wheels on other bikes (when they didn't have too) they are bloody ugly.
Was it just because all the original impulses engines had fried their alternators?

The RG500 Had a 17 inch rear rim but it looks narrower than a Impulse as it carried a 120 tyre.

It's being built for pre 89 period. marvics were pretty common here and oz in race circles anyway, by the mid 80's so a Marvic lookalike type of rim will be acceptable.
Impulses got written off in big numbers for many reasons. 17's were not that plentiful in reasonable widths at wreckers in NZ so Impulse rims appeared on a lot of BEARS bikes among others. At any given Canty meeting in the late 80's I'd toss out at least one bike with shot wheel bearings.


this is the air cooled bike Grumph was referring to ealier
it had the air cooled GSX1000 donk in a works frame in 1984

Its called the XR41

wrong....The XR41's the poms raced in TTF1 had the 8V GS1000 motor in (like the picture) until F1 went 750. Then they put the GSX750 motor in for a couple of years till the GSXR750 came out. Then the bikes were sold off. In the US yoshimura used the GS1000 motor until their F1 went 750 when I believe they concentrated on Superbike till the GSXR came out. Don't know if yosh USA ever got the alloy frame at all. They raced the GSX1000 Katanas in Superbike of course.

[sidecar bob]

I'm very grateful for all the input & no doubt this thread will shape my decisions on what to use in the build.
It just occurred to me that I could build it as a road legal race replica, that would probably be more fun & useable than coming 7th in pre '89, it's unlikely to get near the front runners. Although it's another rego to keep up on & I do have plenty of road bikes, oh, and race bikes.
What a dilemma.

[husaberg]

It's being built for pre 89 period. marvics were pretty common here and oz in race circles anyway, by the mid 80's so a Marvic lookalike type of rim will be acceptable.
Impulses got written off in big numbers for many reasons. 17's were not that plentiful in reasonable widths at wreckers in NZ so Impulse rims appeared on a lot of BEARS bikes among others. At any given Canty meeting in the late 80's I'd toss out at least one bike with shot wheel bearings.



wrong....The XR41's the poms raced in TTF1 had the 8V GS1000 motor in (like the picture) until F1 went 750. Then they put the GSX750 motor in for a couple of years till the GSXR750 came out. Then the bikes were sold off. In the US yoshimura used the GS1000 motor until their F1 went 750 when I believe they concentrated on Superbike till the GSXR came out. Don't know if yosh USA ever got the alloy frame at all. They raced the GSX1000 Katanas in Superbike of course.

Right you are but almost certain there was a gsx powered version in (I think Japanese f1) it may have been 750 I think it may have been Suzuki rather than Yoshi but not sure I have posted a pic before somewhere.

[Drew]

I'm very grateful for all the input & no doubt this thread will shape my decisions on what to use in the build.
It just occurred to me that I could build it as a road legal race replica, that would probably be more fun & useable than coming 7th in pre '89, it's unlikely to get near the front runners. Although it's another rego to keep up on & I do have plenty of road bikes, oh, and race bikes.
What a dilemma.

I'll get a podium finish for ya...Rossi styles!

[sidecar bob]

I'll get a podium finish for ya...Rossi styles!

You were Jay's first pick to ride the GSX at the Barry Shorai. Can't say I was disappointed with my own choice however.:bleh:

[Grumph]

I'm very grateful for all the input & no doubt this thread will shape my decisions on what to use in the build.
It just occurred to me that I could build it as a road legal race replica, that would probably be more fun & useable than coming 7th in pre '89, it's unlikely to get near the front runners. Although it's another rego to keep up on & I do have plenty of road bikes, oh, and race bikes.
What a dilemma.

Have you seen Gary Jamieson's Moriwaki Honda 750 ? It's pretty much what you want to build but Honda...
Horses for courses, on Levels with Robbie riding, the good FZR1000's and GSXR's can't stay with the Mori...I'd reckon to know at least two or three riders who could do the same on it too. Just got to pick your battles with a 750. Street circuits and tight tracks you're in with a chance.
And it's something different. I'm a great specials fan and loathe the stock manx Norton pre 63 and the "factory racing" TZ's etc. Celebrate the great specials building history here and in Oz.

[Kickaha]

Can't say I was disappointed with my own choice however.:bleh:

Probably saved you a lot of crash repairs as well

[scrivy]

You were Jay's first pick to ride the GSX at the Barry Shorai. Can't say I was disappointed with my own choice however.:bleh:

Was Ken caught measuring your shocks??

[sidecar bob]

Was Ken caught measuring your shocks??

Yep, lurkers be lurkin.
https://www.facebook.com/carlcoxmotorsport/photos/pb.1496677837235805.-2207520000.1446252850./1686527688250818/?type=3&theater
The rear warmer isint even on yet & he's got his notebook out writing down the spring numbers.
That's after the organiser put us back on the 5th row due to a protest after a qualifying hiccup where we had been allowed front row.

[sidecar bob]

Have you seen Gary Jamieson's Moriwaki Honda 750 ? It's pretty much what you want to build but Honda...
Horses for courses, on Levels with Robbie riding, the good FZR1000's and GSXR's can't stay with the Mori...I'd reckon to know at least two or three riders who could do the same on it too. Just got to pick your battles with a 750. Street circuits and tight tracks you're in with a chance.
And it's something different. I'm a great specials fan and loathe the stock manx Norton pre 63 and the "factory racing" TZ's etc. Celebrate the great specials building history here and in Oz.

I'm all about the specials. The best part about them is they're unique, & usually built by battlers that can't afford the latest GP machinery which makes them quite inexpensive to duplicate as they're often a mix of readily available period stuff, not unobtanium & cantaffordium.
I don't know the Jamison bike.

[sidecar bob]

Probably saved you a lot of crash repairs as well

I think Jay was keen to see someone slower than him on it. :facepalm:

[Grumph]

lets see if I can now post a pic.

Looks like it's worked, This is the Moriwaki Honda. Full HRC 16V 750 motor. As ridden by Robbie in Japanese F1. Mr Gardener rode one too and would like to buy it....

[husaberg]

lets see if I can now post a pic.

Looks like it's worked, This is the Moriwaki Honda. Full HRC 16V 750 motor. As ridden by Robbie in Japanese F1. Mr Gardener rode one too and would like to buy it....

That stuff on the Moriwaki did I email it to you I can't seem to find where I posted it if I did?

[jasonu]

lets see if I can now post a pic.

Looks like it's worked, This is the Moriwaki Honda. Full HRC 16V 750 motor. As ridden by Robbie in Japanese F1. Mr Gardener rode one too and would like to buy it....

The frame looks like it is made from furniture tube.

[Grumph]

That stuff on the Moriwaki did I email it to you I can't seem to find where I posted it if I did?

Don't know, can't remember, between you and gary reciting it's history i hit overload...


The frame looks like it is made from furniture tube.

Yes, but big square Japanese furniture tube, NOT. Moriwaki were pioneers of alloy frames and did their research on alloys first.....Apparently the collector who had that also had a rolling chassis much the same for a Z1 motor. Gardner rode an alloy framed Z1 for Moriwaki at daytona...If I'd had the dosh, I'd have followed that one up.

[husaberg]

The frame looks like it is made from furniture tube.


Don't know, can't remember, between you and gary reciting it's history i hit overload...
Yes, but big square Japanese furniture tube, NOT. Moriwaki were pioneers of alloy frames and did their research on alloys first.....Apparently the collector who had that also had a rolling chassis much the same for a Z1 motor. Gardner rode an alloy framed Z1 for Moriwaki at daytona...If I'd had the dosh, I'd have followed that one up.
it would be in Jan 2014 this is where these pics where in an email to you I have a habit deleting stuff once I post it.
I can't be assed trying to remember what magazine it was in.
but the story goes that it was a back door engine developed mainly by HRC they did a lot of kit parts for the bike but never pushed it hard as they didn't want it to overshadow the V4's. so it was left to Moriwaki to race.
it had a lot of Ti and other special parts like the gearbox.
It only just missed out by a few points beating all the much newer bikes in the Japanese F1 comp.
Moriwaki also did a frame for the RS250 that like the CBX with twin shocks only mounted even further through the swingarm.

[nudemetalz]

Reminds of this I had back in 1990. Magic bike, loved it to bits,..that is until I wrote it off coming back from Akaroa.....

[Grumph]

Moriwaki could almost have had the slogan "racing the motors Honda don't want to..."
The only time in period they did something in parallel to the works bikes was the RC30 we saw here. Quite different to a customer RC30. Different pipes, visibly different power characteristics - a wheelie monster. I remember watching it exit the Levels esses - on the back wheel. Which aint easy - or common even now...

[husaberg]

Moriwaki could almost have had the slogan "racing the motors Honda don't want to..."
The only time in period they did something in parallel to the works bikes was the RC30 we saw here. Quite different to a customer RC30. Different pipes, visibly different power characteristics - a wheelie monster. I remember watching it exit the Levels esses - on the back wheel. Which aint easy - or common even now...

I remember the pics of the one that Croz used to have something to do with the testing of them out here in the off season, not a part that even looked like a RC30 than even had another name for it X something.
Pretty def the frame was Moriwaki own design.

I posted these pics maybe I never scanned the article

I like the Honda version better (ok moriwoki)
Note the rear shocks i think they did a NSR version as well

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/73540-Bucket-bits-4-sale/page132?p=1130666019#post1130666019

[sidecar bob]

Reminds of this I had back in 1990. Magic bike, loved it to bits,..that is until I wrote it off coming back from Akaroa.....

Wife's bike. 17,000km like new.
Anybody got a set of same coloured bodywork for my hybrid project?

[Drew]

You were Jay's first pick to ride the GSX at the Barry Shorai. Can't say I was disappointed with my own choice however.:bleh:

He was keen not to put anyone fast on it.

To spite Warwick, I've not crashed a solo in a long time by employing his riding style...slow as a wet fucken week.

[sidecar bob]

I have this evening had a fantastic breakthrough with regards to this project.
On the weekend I caught up with Robbie Phillis & quizzed him once again about this bike.
He was able to give me the name of the guy that pieced it together, a chap named Chris Dowde, now retired near Sydney.
I have had a decent chat with him on the phone & have now got direct e mail dialogue with him.

[Drew]

I'm kinda scared to see this come about.

[sidecar bob]

I'm kinda scared to see this come about.

This is my semi retirement long term project. Its not going to happen in a hurry, as you can see by the thread dates.
I just as keen now as I was in 2010 though.
Maybe my grandchild that hasn't been conceived yet can race it.

[jellywrestler]

I'm kinda scared to see this come about.

why it's been done before and worked.

[Drew]

why it's been done before and worked.

It just seems like something I'd build...and that's usually a recipe for disaster.

[sidecar bob]

It just seems like something I'd build...and that's usually a recipe for disaster.

Could you please set about building that rear wheel steer, front wheel drive bike I was trying to fool you into building when we had been drinking.

[husaberg]

Could you please set about building that rear wheel steer, front wheel drive bike I was trying to fool you into building when we had been drinking.

Drysdale built one in the 90's except it was two wheel drive two wheel steer, same bloke that built the V8 based on 2 FZR400's (i think or was that hallam)

[sidecar bob]

Drysdale built one in the 90's except it was two wheel drive two wheel steer, same bloke that built the V8 based on 2 FZR400's (i think or was that hallam)

I was just thinking of a two stroke we could run backwards & linkage some handlebars off the rear mudguard & sit on it backwards.:facepalm:

[Drew]

I was just thinking of a two stroke we could run backwards & linkage some handlebars off the rear mudguard & sit on it backwards.:facepalm:

Come up with your own damn way of doing it!

[jellywrestler]

Drysdale built one in the 90's except it was two wheel drive two wheel steer, same bloke that built the V8 based on 2 FZR400's (i think or was that hallam)

the drysdale was v8 the hunwick hallam was a v twin
was at PI when both were there, the v8 just wasn't pleasant sounding at all oddly.

[husaberg]

I was just thinking of a two stroke we could run backwards & linkage some handlebars off the rear mudguard & sit on it backwards.:facepalm:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f38yJDF2HTI


some other stuff
http://www.odd-bike.com/2014/07/hunwick-hallam-hunwick-harrop-aussie.html


The V8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5gUX7rUU3o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zk-43ACRLQg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJafcYQfpoY

[husaberg]

the drysdale was v8 the hunwick hallam was a v twin
was at PI when both were there, the v8 just wasn't pleasant sounding at all oddly.

got em all, above this post or below yours. hehe

[Hemi Makutu]

I'm kinda scared to see this come about.

Modern rubber allows those big-as, pumped-out, 'roid-rage style 4T pus-buckets to dominate post-classic & etc,
- in a way they could never do back in the day against pukka G.P. machines...

Are you concerned the extra grip available will make that re-animated freak even more deadly?

[Drew]

Modern rubber allows those big-as, pumped-out, 'roid-rage style 4T pus-buckets to dominate post-classic & etc,
- in a way they could never do back in the day against pukka G.P. machines...

Are you concerned the extra grip available will make that re-animated freak even more deadly?
Sounds like a completely pointless widow maker. So I like it a lot. But he's a mate of mine, so some dumb things could happen with enough Heineken.

[Grumph]

Are you concerned the extra grip available will make that re-animated freak even more deadly?

The 400 frame is at least as stiff as the OE 1135 frame - possibly more so. Some judicious bracing will help.
Any extra grip from modern rubber is moot as these things become rear wheel steerers in the hands of a decent rider anyway - which "proper race bikes" of the era wouldn't readily do.
They have enough surplus HP to carry sideways action for as far as the rider wishes...controllably.
I love 'em.

[Hemi Makutu]

'...which "proper race bikes" of the era wouldn't readily do..."
They have enough surplus HP to carry sideways action for as far as the rider wishes...controllably.
I love 'em.


https://motorcyclephotooftheday.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/h1tweak2.jpg


Yeah right.. Kanemoto & Carruthers thought otherwise..

& actually, could it be why the AMA banned them - to stop them - from doing just that?

[jasonu]

https://motorcyclephotooftheday.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/h1tweak2.jpg


Yeah right.. Kanemoto & Carruthers thought otherwise..

& actually, could it be why the AMA banned them - to stop them - from doing just that?

I always thought the AMA banned it because the Hardleys couldn't keep up...also pretty sure Kenny Roberts recommended it be banned.

[Hemi Makutu]

AFAIR, for Kenny, it was more like "I don't get paid enough - to ride this thing"..

He got a contra-deal from the AMA, whereby roadracing was to be separated from dirt, championship-wise,
& so he went to Europe & took back the 500 G.P. class crown for Yamaha ( X3) from Suzuki/Sheene...

Kanemoto went F750 World-Championship hunting with Gary Nixon & the Kawasaki KR 750/3, but got stiffed for the title...

[jellywrestler]

https://motorcyclephotooftheday.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/h1tweak2.jpg


Yeah right.. Kanemoto & Carruthers thought otherwise..

& actually, could it be why the AMA banned them - to stop them - from doing just that?

kenny roberts rode a water cooled tz750 yamaha, this isn't one of dem.

[Hemi Makutu]

kenny roberts rode a water cooled tz750 yamaha, this isn't one of dem.


Erv Kanemoto, as noted - did it with that H2R, before the TZ,
& factory F750 Triumph/BSA triples were used on the mile dirt tracks, before that too..

Here's Gary Nixon doin' it on the dirt..

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/4e/b3/6d/4eb36d5cd921b9913a7511539ea2504e.jpg

[Hemi Makutu]

Here he leads the Sacramento mile on a Triumph triple.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/91/4e/2a/914e2a0d170b368d2b80a6170dd58249.jpg

[jellywrestler]

Here he leads the Sacramento mile on a Triumph triple.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/91/4e/2a/914e2a0d170b368d2b80a6170dd58249.jpg

not bad for a cheekie darky.

[jasonu]

kenny roberts rode a water cooled tz750 yamaha, this isn't one of dem.

Plus Kennys bike had one more cylinder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8k8hJWKIVNs

[Hemi Makutu]

Here's a line up of Triumph Trident milers, inc' a brace of Rob North factory roadracer F750 converts..

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/0/0/9/0/0/1/webimg/337397887_o.jpg

[Hemi Makutu]

not bad for a cheekie darky.

He looks more like George W. Bush.. esp' next to those two 'beaners'..

[jasonu]

Here's a line up of Triumph Trident milers, inc' a brace of Rob North factory roadracer F750 converts..

http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/0/0/9/0/0/1/webimg/337397887_o.jpg

Gary Nixon, Don Vesco, Gene Romero?????

[Grumph]

Gary Nixon, Don Vesco, Gene Romero?????

Nixon, Don Emde, Romero.

No one ever won a major dirt race with a factory trident. Nixon got closest but fell when he grounded the cases which was the main problem with them.

This is not relevant to building a post classic roadrace special.

[The Chow]

Nixon, Don Emde, Romero.

No one ever won a major dirt race with a factory trident. Nixon got closest but fell when he grounded the cases which was the main problem with them.

This is not relevant to building a post classic roadrace special.

Not that it matters but . Gary Nixon , Don Castro and Gene Romero

[Hemi Makutu]

Nixon, Don Emde, Romero.

No one ever won a major dirt race with a factory trident. Nixon got closest but fell when he grounded the cases which was the main problem with them.

This is not relevant to building a post classic roadrace special.

If the rather wide crankcases of the big Suzuki 4 stick out further than a 400/4 - in the same chassis?

& the discussion was in relation to sliding about on big roadrace engine powered bikes back in the day.
Both the H2R & TZ 750 did win on the dirt, wide cases 'n' all- if maybe set a bit higher - due to no bulky/heavy/complex 4T top-end..

AFAIR, 'On Any Sunday' shows Jim Rice ( or was it Dave Aldana) tossing his BSA Rocket 3 dirt machine away,
- after winning a Q-'heat' race for a 'major', the Sacramento mile..

( & those three factory Triumph riders do have their first names clearly visible on their trick white leathers).

[Voltaire]

Nixon, Don Emde, Romero.

No one ever won a major dirt race with a factory trident. Nixon got closest but fell when he grounded the cases which was the main problem with them.

This is not relevant to building a post classic roadrace special.

Its what James does..... probably listens to Skyhooks " Livin' in the 70's" on repeat :laugh:

[Hemi Makutu]

Its what James does..... probably listens to Skyhooks " Livin' in the 70's" on repeat :laugh:

Norton machines won a few on the dirt, but I wonder why BMW didn't even try? They're both twins L.O.L...

[Leon Curtis]

Well this is grandfathers axe discussion. The original bike was destroyed in a fire at a workshop during extensive mods to go back on the track (so I have been told). The new owner who got it soon after the swan series wanted to invest heavily in a trick bike.

That means he did not use a lot of stuff from the bike as raced.

So what I have is:-
-A replica frame built and welded by Chris Dowde in the same jig he built for the original
-Swingarm is an 1100 EFE item caged and moded to fit same as original
-I have the original front end including billet fork brace and EFE 1100 brake dive mods as per Chris Dowde
-Replica engine ESD 750 running the forged Katana Air Cooled 1000 pistons (the production racing special with wire wheels. actual capacity actually just under 860cc

-I have the original Dymag front Wheels 16" and the hand widened (yes you are reading correctly) mag built by Chris when the racing wheel ordered from England did not arrive in time. The disks on the original are from the RG 500 Mk 5 and were floating disc. I used Brembo items.

-The crank is the original item with the alternator end lopped off. A secondary oil pump drive developed for the original but not used due to time pressure is fitted to this engine.

Sorry no carbs they were cannibalised.

I have a few sets of barrels and a couple of heads etc that go with it.

If you are still interested I will photograph the bike and send them.

Happy to sell to a good home.

No bodywork , I changed all that to get rid of the sitting on a fence seating position.

Regards Leon

[husaberg]

Well If you are still interested I will photograph the bike and send them.



Regards Leon

yip post em...........

[sidecar bob]

Just to put the contributors to this thread in the loop, I have done a deal with Leon to purchase his bike for the purpose of restoring it back to a replica of the Phillis bike, with the emphasis being more on making it as it was, rather than as a competitive current race bike.
Thanks to all that have helped with info & photos & especially Robin M who posted me a copy of Revs magazine from '84 with a test of the bike in it, & husaberg, who seems to posses some kind of special powers to turn up information on random stuff.
Also, thanks in advance to grumph, for already agreeing to go through the engine for me.
Suffice to say, that after seeing some of the mods & engineering, it would have been impossible to re create this bike without having a large part of the original machine, which I am very pleased to have located.
I don't really feel like posting on this forum anymore, but may slip some pics of the rebuild in this thread from time to time.
Cheers,
Steve.

[merv]

I don't really feel like posting on this forum anymore, but may slip some pics of the rebuild in this thread from time to time.
Cheers,
Steve.

How come, we love hearing from you?

[HenryDorsetCase]

I am also keen to see pix. I really ilke this thread.

[Reckless]

Me to mate its an interesting project.
Some of us KB oldtimers dont post a lot and only come for MotoGP Discussion, Ese thread and threads like this project.
Keep us up to speed :)

Im about to start a post classic build :)

[HenryDorsetCase]

Me to mate its an interesting project.
Some of us KB oldtimers dont post a lot and only come for MotoGP Discussion, Ese thread and threads like this project.
Keep us up to speed :)

Im about to start a post classic build :)

............and still the best avatar on KB. In fact on the entire internet

[Grumph]

Me to mate its an interesting project.
Some of us KB oldtimers dont post a lot and only come for MotoGP Discussion, Ese thread and threads like this project.
Keep us up to speed :)

Im about to start a post classic build :)

God help you.....

I can see a smallish prob on the horizon with getting this bike from Oz running - as I'm sure it will be run at least once...
The 16inch front. rocking horse poo now.
Jay got any ideas ?

[Drew]

God help you.....It's all fun and games...till ya want the bike to be competitive.


I can see a smallish prob on the horizon with getting this bike from Oz running - as I'm sure it will be run at least once...
The 16inch front. rocking horse poo now.
Jay got any ideas ?
Impulse wheel looks the same.

[tigertim20]

I would also love to see a build thread. it sounds like an awesome project. reminds me of the guy who built a 600 SRAD gsxr with a Busa engine in it.

[Grumph]

It's all fun and games...till ya want the bike to be competitive.
Impulse wheel looks the same.

As the OE 400 rim, yes - but it's got a Dymag fitted. All the 16in Dymag fronts I ever saw were 3.5in wide, Impulse is 3in I think.


I would also love to see a build thread. it sounds like an awesome project. reminds me of the guy who built a 600 SRAD gsxr with a Busa engine in it.

As i've pointed out to several people, you can fit an FZR1000 engine in the last version FZR400 frame...and a 5.5 rear too......

[HenryDorsetCase]

I would also love to see a build thread. it sounds like an awesome project. reminds me of the guy who built a 600 SRAD gsxr with a Busa engine in it.

I'd be interested to read that. For, uh, reasons.

[jellywrestler]

As the OE 400 rim, yes - but it's got a Dymag fitted. All the 16in Dymag fronts I ever saw were 3.5in wide, Impulse is 3in I think.




just get one 3 d printed.

[tigertim20]

I'd be interested to read that. For, uh, reasons.

was on a gsxr forum a couple years ago when i still owned a gsxr

[husaberg]

It's all fun and games...till ya want the bike to be competitive.
Impulse wheel looks the same.


God help you.....

I can see a smallish prob on the horizon with getting this bike from Oz running - as I'm sure it will be run at least once...
The 16inch front. rocking horse poo now.
Jay got any ideas ?

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/125459-GSXR400-1135-hybrid-race-bike-80s?p=1130917103#post1130917103
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/125459-GSXR400-1135-hybrid-race-bike-80s?p=1130917347#post1130917347

Oh it has a dymag.
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/125459-GSXR400-1135-hybrid-race-bike-80s?p=1131018835#post1131018835

[Grumph]

Well until it arrives and the condition of the Dymag is seen, the question is moot. But I was more concerned about finding a suitable tyre for the front than wheel. If it is to stay as a period correct replica the 16 stays...
I'd also assume that because of the close contact, Jay may well be willing to source a suitable tyre...

[nodrog]

Well until it arrives and the condition of the Dymag is seen, the question is moot. But I was more concerned about finding a suitable tyre for the front than wheel. If it is to stay as a period correct replica the 16 stays...
I'd also assume that because of the close contact, Jay may well be willing to source a suitable tyre...

Lololololol, bt45 or some pirelli are about it.

Still good for beating people on full wets in the rain.

[T.W.R]

To be period correct the tyre would have to be the likes of a Pirelli MP7S or Michelin A59 etc
Btw the 16in suzi front hoop on impulses were MT16x2.50

[husaberg]

To be period correct the tyre would have to be the likes of a Pirelli MP7S or Michelin A59 etc
Btw the 16in suzi front hoop on impulses were MT16x2.50

Pretty sure some impulses were arround that width but 17's.
there was also a model likely japan only that was twin shock also called the impulse released in the early 80's

[T.W.R]

Pretty sure some impulses were arround that width but 17's.

Yeah true, but the gsxr400, gsx550esd, gsx750esd-g, gsx750se-f were 16x2.50

[husaberg]

Yeah true, but the gsxr400, gsx550esd, gsx750esd-g, gsx750se-f were 16x2.50
i don't think the rear was much wider than 2.5 either.
yeah but it depends if he wants to build a bike to be raced or a 100% replica right down to the rivots.
Have you ever seen one of the earlier twin shock impulses with the humped seat. I remember seeing pics in a Aussie mag, i think it had spoked wheels.

[T.W.R]

i don't think the rear was much wider than 2.5 either.
yeah but it depends if he wants to build a bike to be raced or a 100% replica right down to the rivots.
Have you ever seen one of the earlier twin shock impulses with the humped seat. I remember seeing pics in a Aussie mag, i think it had spoked wheels.

Ha yeah 2.75s running 130s
Actually about to go into the bomb site that I call the shed and try & locate some MCN mags, I'm sure I've got an article on this bike in one of them.

Got couple of mags with what were to the writers amazing jap 400s & 250s for the jap domestic market before we got flooded with grey imports...CB400F with VTEC heads etc circa 1984 & so forth

[husaberg]

Ha yeah 2.75s running 130s
Actually about to go into the bomb site that I call the shed and try & locate some MCN mags, I'm sure I've got an article on this bike in one of them.

Got couple of mags with what were to the writers amazing jap 400s & 250s for the jap domestic market before we got flooded with grey imports...CB400F with VTEC heads etc circa 1984 & so forth

From what i found the GSX600F katana had wheels that looked almost exactly the same but were in decent widths and in 17 They were also made for a heap of years in the US unchanged.
GSX600F 87-92
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Suzuki-Katana-GSX600F-1988-1996-Front-Wheel-White-2-50X17-54111-30B03-28W-/361838282586?hash=item543f3e075a:m:mErcORKMSaCGvv9 FI15Ytmg&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-Suzuki-Katana-GSX600-1988-1996-Rear-Wheel-MT3-00X17-White-64111-30B02-28W-/322340079726?hash=item4b0cf7486e:g:~RoAAOSws4JW79I b&vxp=mtr

[malcy25]

16 inch front racing
http://www.avonmotorsport.com/historic/motorcycle/am22

[T.W.R]

Well after some digging haven't had any joy yet, but have a couple more places to look so will do a bit of shifting around to get into where I need to get to.
Though unearthed so interesting articles:
85 Bathurst 4 pages on Rodger Freeth & the McIntosh and what Alan Franklin did to the bike.
Bimota SB2 thru to SB4 tests
A fancy piece of kit built by kiwi Grant Saunders...GSX1100 powered thing that looks like a cross between a Harris Magnum & a Bimota
A Kwaka powered Motoplast beastie
A piccy of me getting John Surtees autograph at Ruapuna circa 1980
A mobil oils maintenance handbook for motorcyclists circa 1960

So some wee gems but not what I'm after so will keep looking when time allows...got stuff located in so many places its a bit scary

[Grumph]

A piccy of me getting John Surtees autograph at Ruapuna circa 1980
So some wee gems but not what I'm after so will keep looking when time allows...got stuff located in so many places its a bit scary

I'd have given you my autograph at that meeting if you'd asked....I was winning in a different class to John but when it came to an all-in race, George Begg wouldn't let me ride against John..."It's for genuine race bikes only" John's Vinnie special was as much a factory race bike as my Domiracer....It might have been close too. Hand timing said we were the two quickest bikes there.

i've got that Saunders article too. Always wondered if he came back and was SME in Auckland.

[T.W.R]

I'd have given you my autograph at that meeting if you'd asked....I was winning in a different class to John but when it came to an all-in race, George Begg wouldn't let me ride against John..."It's for genuine race bikes only" John's Vinnie special was as much a factory race bike as my Domiracer....It might have been close too. Hand timing said we were the two quickest bikes there.

i've got that Saunders article too. Always wondered if he came back and was SME in Auckland.

:facepalm: George Begg mmm a name I haven't heard for a long time....not very popular in the PVMC plenty of coin to buy good toys but an attitude to go with it & couldn't ride a hot knife into butter...Ron Battersby loved him with a passion:yes:
Can't remember exactly on dates etc but around the same year the Malasian GP team came out to a meeting too, I spent the whole day with them ripping up the pits on their mini-bike etc while the oldman spent the day yarning with John Woodley ( think he was acting as unofficial baby sitter for them).
The following week Suzuki NZ had a MX Demo day at Woodford Glen with Iki Watanabe (78 world MX champ) riding the new RM250 with full floater suspension....Ivan Miller, Craig Coleman etc were all there. Spent that whole day again with JW & the GP team

[jellywrestler]

i've got that Saunders article too. Always wondered if he came back and was SME in Auckland.

he's still selling shit on trade me, carb kits etc

[Grumph]

he's still selling shit on trade me, carb kits etc

If it is the same Saunders who built bikes in the NW of England, one of his would definitely fit your collection...

[Reckless]

SME
If its the same guy, he lives in Whitford (well did a few years ago) I bought some Carb Bits off him for the Z1R (I Think).
I cant remember his name might still have the purchase docket somewhere?

[malcy25]

SME is Alec Saunders. His brother Bruce worked for him also when in Marua Rd.

[sidecar bob]

Packed & paid for.
Give it a bit of zoom. Especially the rear suspension.
I have a stock GK71b. It's not even close.
The engine is quite a bit larger too!

[Grumph]

Looks like at least a couple of inches can come out of the rear arm.
I've got an 18 X 4 rear Dymag if you want to match the front...

[sidecar bob]

Looks like at least a couple of inches can come out of the rear arm.
I've got an 18 X 4 rear Dymag if you want to match the front...

Yes please, very much!
He asked to keep the FZR front wheel, which I didn't want anyway, as it's not period or correct & wanted it on 18's

[husaberg]

The engine certainly fills the cradle.;)
The shock set up is unusual, I would be looking to see if it mimics' a GP ot F1TT bike of the period.
It would be easier to ask the dude that built it though.....

[Grumph]

Yes please, very much!
He asked to keep the FZR front wheel, which I didn't want anyway, as it's not period or correct & wanted it on 18's

This is what I've got. 18 X 4 Bought from Holden uncoated bare casting and apparently unused. Supposedly ex Wgtn M/c wheel stash.
We made up bearing carriers - 20mm axle - and cush. Disc fitted is anodised alloy.
Used one season on my F3 500 kawasaki.

If the Chow ever comes back on here, he can explain the poor job his tyre fitters did at a WSB round - which is where the chipped powdercoat around the rim came from. No damage to the casting. Needs stripping and recoating.

[sidecar bob]

The engine certainly fills the cradle.;)
The shock set up is unusual, I would be looking to see if it mimics' a GP ot F1TT bike of the period.
It would be easier to ask the dude that built it though.....

Apparently it's a copy of a RG500 GP bike. Not sure which mk tho.

[husaberg]

Apparently it's a copy of a RG500 GP bike. Not sure which mk tho.

According to the net the first works bikes had it in 1980
the First one I can find is the XR35 of 81
Personally Id be thinking XR40 era or 1982/3
or about RGB MK7
http://www.ozebook.com/compendium/suzi/rg500/rg500b.html
http://raresportbikesforsale.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/LR_suzrgg5002.jpg (http://www.google.co.nz/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwj-06WW-uPaAhXGgbwKHZEpAdsQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fraresportbikesforsale.com%2F1982-suzuki-rgb500-mk7-moto-gp-factory-racer-on-ebay%2F&psig=AOvVaw0K-HWdwW2iuucwtDfUclPI&ust=1525244868703408)https://www.avto-magazin.si/media/cache/upload/Photo/2007/10/15/mm_slika-2_biggalleryimage.jpg (https://www.avto-magazin.si/moto/moto-testi/suzuki-500-xr-40-gamma-3/)

Hard to believe some aussie hadn't already tracked it down and snapped it up when the previous owner posted about it on this thread. Well Noah's axe close as you can get to the original anyway
It's probably the coolest "homemade" superbike ever made.

[Grumph]

Apparently it's a copy of a RG500 GP bike. Not sure which mk tho.

Doubt it. The triangle plates on the arm are straight 1100EFE - and the rocker setup is OE 400 full floater.
The two pushrods simply join the bits in the simplest fashion.
From what I can see they're at a quite different angle to the links on the 400 arm which leads me to suspect that it may actually be falling rate initially then pretty much straight line rate. Sorting a working rear spring rate might be fun...

[husaberg]

Doubt it. The triangle plates on the arm are straight 1100EFE - and the rocker setup is OE 400 full floater.
The two pushrods simply join the bits in the simplest fashion.
From what I can see they're at a quite different angle to the links on the 400 arm which leads me to suspect that it may actually be falling rate initially then pretty much straight line rate. Sorting a working rear spring rate might be fun...

Be easy enough to mock up with a few drawing pins and a bit of card board do it to scale then just plot the movements.
Most of the ones in the 80's were well wrong anyway so it could still be factory.........

[sidecar bob]

According to the net the first works bikes had it in 1980
the First one I can find is the XR35 of 81
Personally Id be thinking XR40 era or 1982/3
or about RGB MK7
Hard to believe some aussie hadn't already tracked it down and snapped it up when the previous owner posted about it on this thread. Well Noah's axe close as you can get to the original anyway
It's probably the coolest "homemade" superbike ever made.

This bike was truly forgotten.
The proprietor of the shop in Melbourne I'm having it delivered to was at Oran park the year it ran & he has no memory of it.
I wound him up today that it's taking a Kiwi to restore a bike with an iconic Australian history.

[sidecar bob]

Be easy enough to mock up with a few drawing pins and a bit of card board do it to scale then just plot the movements.
Most of the ones in the 80's were well wrong anyway so it could still be factory.........

I'd rather have it exactly as it was, than "right" hence the 18 inch wheels.

[Mental Trousers]

Be easy enough to mock up with a few drawing pins and a bit of card board do it to scale then just plot the movements.
Most of the ones in the 80's were well wrong anyway so it could still be factory.........

I'd rather have it exactly as it was, than "right" hence the 18 inch wheels.

You might change your mind after riding it haha

[husaberg]

I'd rather have it exactly as it was, than "right" hence the 18 inch wheels.

You have changed your tune from the earlier pages.:whistle:

:D:D

Horn will be near enough for me.:eek:
Robbie told me to put 17's on it on the weekend, he rekoned building a bike you can buy tyres for is more important than building an authentic replica.
Seeing as it came from him I've taken that on board.

I was just suggesting to map it to see what it does, It took until about the mid nineties for Kawasaki to get a linkage right.

[jellywrestler]

According to the net the first works bikes had it in 1980
the First one I can find is the XR35 of 81
steve roberts had factory full floater drawings when he built the alloy monocoque bike in 1981 obtained through Rod coleman

[sidecar bob]

You have changed your tune from the earlier pages.:whistle:


I was just suggesting to map it to see what it does, It took until about the mid nineties for Kawasaki to get a linkage right.

I've also had plenty of time to think. People sweated rivets to build these kind of things & it is what it is.
I could build a race bike better than this for half the money with locally sourced bits, but it wouldn't be this bike.
It's not going to be ridden in anger, so I'd rather just leave it proper period.

[husaberg]

:D:D

Horn will be near enough for me.:eek:
Robbie told me to put 17's on it on the weekend, he rekoned building a bike you can buy tyres for is more important than building an authentic replica.
Seeing as it came from him I've taken that on board.


I've also had plenty of time to think. People sweated rivets to build these kind of things & it is what it is.
I could build a race bike better than this for half the money with locally sourced bits, but it wouldn't be this bike.
It's not going to be ridden in anger, so I'd rather just leave it proper period.

Fair enough I guess for pre 89 you could do a GSXR slingshot 7/11 for far less.
Out of interest what carbs and front wheel did it have in swan series trim.

[sidecar bob]

Fair enough I guess for pre 89 you could do a GSXR slingshot 7/11 for far less.
Out of interest what carbs and front wheel did it have in swan series trim.

I think the front may have been an Astralite.
I have a set of 29mm Mikuni Smoothbores to go on it, which I'm pretty sure is what it had & certainly period & a bit rarer than CR's which are everywhere.
It comes with a pile of info on the original bike.

[husaberg]

I think the front may have been an Astralite.
I have a set of 29mm Mikuni Smoothbores to go on it, which I'm pretty sure is what it had & certainly period & a bit rarer than CR's which are everywhere.
It comes with a pile of info on the original bike.
I wouldn't mind seeing that revs write up you mentioned.
But I guess Tracy would have to scan it for you......:shifty:
The front wheel looked small diameter in the video I posted.

[sidecar bob]

I wouldn't mind seeing that revs write up you mentioned.
But I guess Tracy would have to scan it for you......:shifty:
The front wheel looked small diameter in the video I posted.
I will study it hard before I start the resto. I've got that much other stuff on my plate at the mo that it's a far off, hobby thing Right now.
Most important part is getting it securely in my basement & assesing it.

[jellywrestler]

Most important part is getting it securely in my basement & assesing it. sounds like just what Joseph Fritzl used to do...

[malcy25]

I've also had plenty of time to think. People sweated rivets to build these kind of things & it is what it is.
I could build a race bike better than this for half the money with locally sourced bits, but it wouldn't be this bike.
It's not going to be ridden in anger, so I'd rather just leave it proper period.

Steve, there's now some great 18 inch radial race tyres coming out. Dunlop are doing the Alpha 14 in 18's front and rear, Metzeler are doing the Racetec RR in 18's, there's new Avon Storm based 18 inch radials over and above the AM223/23, plus the Conti CR. So leaving it on 18's is no major issue and doing so I reckon would be cool!

[sidecar bob]

Steve, there's now some great 18 inch radial race tyres coming out. Dunlop are doing the Alpha 14 in 18's front and rear, Metzeler are doing the Racetec RR in 18's, there's new Avon Storm based 18 inch radials over and above the AM223/23, plus the Conti CR. So leaving it on 18's is no major issue and doing so I reckon would be cool!

It's about time too. Will any of them be slicks? It's a styling thing.:niceone:

[malcy25]

It's about time too. Will any of them be slicks? It's a styling thing.:niceone:

No, but the Racetec RR is closest http://www.metzeler.com/site/uk/products/tyres-catalogue/Racetec-RR.html

[HenryDorsetCase]

No, but the Racetec RR is closest http://www.metzeler.com/site/uk/products/tyres-catalogue/Racetec-RR.html

I've got them on my Street Triple and they are brilliant... did that trackday on them recently as well as road miles. Oooh errr missus.

[HenryDorsetCase]

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a.aspx?id=1623259864&tm=email&et=47&mt=9C1D36CC-4229-4A71-BC36-5A25A9BF762F

anyone want to build another?

[sidecar bob]

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a.aspx?id=1623259864&tm=email&et=47&mt=9C1D36CC-4229-4A71-BC36-5A25A9BF762F

anyone want to build another?

Ahem. . . It wasn't built out of an impulse:msn-wink:
If anyone wants a rolling alloy frame for the bike in question, I have one that could be had for almost next to not much eventually, as I did buy one to build a replica before I found the bike itself.

[jasonu]

https://www.trademe.co.nz/a.aspx?id=1623259864&tm=email&et=47&mt=9C1D36CC-4229-4A71-BC36-5A25A9BF762F

anyone want to build another?

What the fuck does 'It has two stage throttle pick up and will go when extended' mean???

[jasonu]

Ahem. . . It wasn't built out of an impulse:msn-wink:
If anyone wants a rolling alloy frame for the bike in question, I have one that could be had for almost next to not much eventually, as I did buy one to build a replica before I found the bike itself.

Keep it ya mug. Ya never know...

[sidecar bob]

Keep it ya mug. Ya never know...

Lol, I cleared out my storage shed during the week. Do you know how many times i said, "I'm keeping that in case the GSX1100 gets endoed"
Anyone need any 1980 gsx1100 road parts? The kind of stuff race bikes don't use.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Ahem. . . It wasn't built out of an impulse:msn-wink:
If anyone wants a rolling alloy frame for the bike in question, I have one that could be had for almost next to not much eventually, as I did buy one to build a replica before I found the bike itself.
Wait,whut? Oh there was a pic of an impulse a few pages back but it might have been in relation to wheel sizes

[sidecar bob]

Look what finally turned up at my workshop today.:2thumbsup
This thread is almost exactly nine years old & im just as keen on this project as I was then.
And a copy of the revs magazine with the bike on the cover taped to the seat.
Ill photograph some of the handmade components over the next few days & put the pics up.
Anyone want a McIntosh seat unit?

[sidecar bob]

Heres the bike i got cheap in January to take the bodywork off.
The bloke must have thought i was a fairly easy going buyer.

[roogazza]

Look what finally turned up at my workshop today.:2thumbsup
And a copy of the revs magazine with the bike on the cover taped to the seat.
Ill photograph some of the handmade components over the next few days & put the pics up.
Anyone want a McIntosh seat unit?

Nice, I'm thinking I remember that bike ??? Keen on your progress with it.

[Grumph]

I'll put my hand up for the seat, thanks. We can offset it against something I'm sure. There's a small suzuki project about to start - and that seat on it will offend Ken nicely.
The rear wheel in the racebike - is it an OE suzuki widened by welding ? If it is, I can see why you wanted my Dymag. I've seen that done down here - but only once. Jim Landrebe of all people, made a small comeback on a Honda Bros i'd done the motor on for the previous owner. He widened the OE front to a more suitable 3.5in.

[sidecar bob]

I'll put my hand up for the seat, thanks. We can offset it against something I'm sure. There's a small suzuki project about to start - and that seat on it will offend Ken nicely.
The rear wheel in the racebike - is it an OE suzuki widened by welding ? If it is, I can see why you wanted my Dymag. I've seen that done down here - but only once. Jim Landrebe of all people, made a small comeback on a Honda Bros i'd done the motor on for the previous owner. He widened the OE front to a more suitable 3.5in.
The seat is yours, it can be full payment for that really simple honda motor you have apart of mine at the mo.:msn-wink:
Yep, the rear wheel is welded widened, will post a close up sometime. I will keep it on the bike, as its part of what makes it what it is.
why did i want your dymag? It has one on the front, maybe a wet wheel, but mainly because I know rocking horse shit when I see it.

[Grumph]

The seat is yours, it can be full payment for that really simple honda motor you have apart of mine at the mo.:msn-wink:


On that basis, I can't afford it.

[husaberg]

I'll put my hand up for the seat, thanks. We can offset it against something I'm sure. There's a small suzuki project about to start - and that seat on it will offend Ken nicely.
The rear wheel in the racebike - is it an OE suzuki widened by welding ? If it is, I can see why you wanted my Dymag. I've seen that done down here - but only once. Jim Landrebe of all people, made a small comeback on a Honda Bros i'd done the motor on for the previous owner. He widened the OE front to a more suitable 3.5in.

Koosman in the USA did thousands of them he even used to change the diameters as well as the widths
http://kosmanspecialties.com/product/wheel-widening/
Fisrt time i heard it used was on the CW 7/11 in the 80's
over 12000 wheels according to the blurb.
now done here
https://www.custommetalspinning.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=wheelwidening
i had a write up on the process but it was simply done how you would think it was.

[Grumph]

Not worth doing now. So many aftermarket rims available plus the widths have pretty much standardised now.
Drebe did the Bros wheel in the early 90's because he couldn't find a 3.5in which would drop in and use the Honda disc.
Then he finished up putting a second caliper on the thing...When I saw that, I told him he should have saved time and money just swapping a twin disc front end into it.
The bike is owned in ChCh now and hasn't been out for years.

[husaberg]

Not worth doing now. So many aftermarket rims available plus the widths have pretty much standardised now.
Drebe did the Bros wheel in the early 90's because he couldn't find a 3.5in which would drop in and use the Honda disc.
Then he finished up putting a second caliper on the thing...When I saw that, I told him he should have saved time and money just swapping a twin disc front end into it.
The bike is owned in ChCh now and hasn't been out for years.

The reason they used to do it was it was cheap and it was fast. rather than lack of choice.
They could get aftermarket wheels then same as now, but back then a Marvic set was 2G, when 2g was 4 about weeks wages.

If it was for period look wheels for a race class or even for a resto-mod it could still have it place.
Bros wheels were ugly, but they were one of the few bikes overshod and over forked for its day for a road bike anyway

[HenryDorsetCase]

Richard Pollock (Mule Motorcycles) does his or gets Kosman to on some of the trackers he builds.

Cool AF. As you say basically to get the look he wants.

I love these and want one. Basically I want one of everything.

[sidecar bob]

I have been messaging Leon, the guy I got the bike off. He passed on the following info.
I've chopped it about a bit, but it still makes sense.

Do you know what state the engine is in?
The engine has 1 Bathurst and 1 Oran Park meet on it since a full rebuild. All new consumables except the pistons.

What state of tune is it in?
it is half way between endurance and grenade. idle is 1800min

What Pistons,
These are the forged pistons from an air cooled GSX1000 katana race special. The included angle of the valves is very different and each piston has had the four valve pockets fly cut to suit. These were plasticine checked to have 0.8mm minimum clearance between valve and piston at the extreme of the overlap. be careful with cams of more duration and lift

cams,
These are specials based on a racing powerboat design (originally a V12 Jag engine design) for early torque development. I will try to remember the name of the original artist and send it latter. Any good grind shop can measure

compression ratio,
approx 11.2 with the thin head gasket (copper core only) and 10.9 with a std head gasket

Clutch has been strengthened with very heavy backlash springs and hew heavy rivets, still has the helical cut gear. the original first engine had a straight cut gear that howled. It was replaced for the next meeting as Phillis did not like it I was told.

What is the disconnected pump on the LH side of the engine for?
This was meant to be an auxiliary and completely separate pump to service a tail unit oil cooler, all pump internals are based on that era (1984) Honda XR 250 4 stroke dirt bike the drive chain is the cam drive from the same motor

What are the front calipers off? I see Yamaha Tokico on them, what model?
These were never one the original, they are from the 4 cylinder RZ500 GP street bike Yamaha made. The original had all Lockheed brakes off the English Bandit version of the RGB 500 Mk5 (I think) including the discs. Oddly enough the bolt pattern and disc size of the GRXR1000K1 is almost identical and very similar in appearance

Do the forks have any internal mods?
The fork internals are revalved and resprung ( Chris Dowde special) Not sure of the details. The brake pressure activate anti-dive brake feature at the front of the forks was replaced with the resistance type ones of the GSX1100EFE

I think I have the headlight blanking mould I built for this , If I find it I will make one and send it

[Grumph]

The cams are a slight worry. This engine uses rocker arms and an assymetric cam to suit. Jags are symmetrical cams.
That's tight valve to piston too.
Worth asking if any mods were made to the lubrication system - uprated pump etc.

How long ago was it last run ?

[sidecar bob]

The cams are a slight worry. This engine uses rocker arms and an assymetric cam to suit. Jags are symmetrical cams.
That's tight valve to piston too.
Worth asking if any mods were made to the lubrication system - uprated pump etc.

How long ago was it last run ?
I'd guess it hasn't been running for a minimum of ten years.
Yep, I agree with you about the piston to valve, might work a bit more of a margin in there.
As far as the rest of it goes, I'm going to put it back pretty much as it was & see how it goes.
I found these in a cupboard today, 29mm smoothbores, I thought I'd find a use for them some day.:2thumbsup

[Grumph]

See what the pistons are like. OE GSX1000 are 69.4mm bore. Wiseco do a 70mm piston set for that motor which would solve any piston or ring availability problems.
Coincidentally, I'm respacing a cut set of 29mm smoothbores for a twin project. Bought a damaged set for peanuts years ago and made a pair out of them. This will be the third different spacing, LOL. Need to make bellmouths for them. I've got pressformers for this size - do you want a set for those ones ?
They'd be alloy and will take a polish.

[sidecar bob]

See what the pistons are like. OE GSX1000 are 69.4mm bore. Wiseco do a 70mm piston set for that motor which would solve any piston or ring availability problems.
Coincidentally, I'm respacing a cut set of 29mm smoothbores for a twin project. Bought a damaged set for peanuts years ago and made a pair out of them. This will be the third different spacing, LOL. Need to make bellmouths for them. I've got pressformers for this size - do you want a set for those ones ?
They'd be alloy and will take a polish.

Polished alloy bellmouths? Yes please, that's another problem solved!
Will strip it down & give it a clean up & measure, but by the sounds of it, storage aside, it's quite low mileage on a rebuild.
It's not going to get a hiding, so I might just safe it up & run it near enough as it is.
To be honest, I'm probably going to do a lot more looking at it than riding it.

[husaberg]

Polished alloy bellmouths? Yes please, that's another problem solved!
Will strip it down & give it a clean up & measure, but by the sounds of it, storage aside, it's quite low mileage on a rebuild.
It's not going to get a hiding, so I might just safe it up & run it near enough as it is.
To be honest, I'm probably going to do a lot more looking at it than riding it.

Judging by the comments the pistons should be 72MM?



-A replica frame built and welded by Chris Dowde in the same jig he built for the original
-Swingarm is an 1100 EFE item caged and moded to fit same as original
-I have the original front end including billet fork brace and EFE 1100 brake dive mods as per Chris Dowde
-Replica engine ESD 750 running the forged Katana Air Cooled 1000 pistons (the production racing special with wire wheels. actual capacity actually just under 860cc
72mmx53mm =863cc

[sidecar bob]

Judging by the comments the pistons should be 72MM?

That's what a standard 1075cc GSX1100 runs. I have a pile of them & 74mm 1135cc Suzuki and Wiseco branded ones.

[husaberg]

That's what a standard 1075cc GSX1100 runs. I have a pile of them & 74mm 1135cc Suzuki and Wiseco branded ones.

So are GN250's and they are more likely to have a similar valve angle.:msn-wink:
Also the S3 GSX750se has closer ratios
plus very different primary ratios?
I know the Giles Katana runs GSX750 primaries.
https://bikereview.com.au/shawn-giles-19-tbr-katana/

[Grumph]

Slow down a bit there Husa. Builder said Air cooled gsx1000 katana pistons - 69.4 bore. std 750 is 67 so that's a 2.4mm overbore. Knowing suzuki barrels, I'd doubt if 72mm is practical - let alone 74mm - without resleeving.
It was built for the Aussie 1000cc limit of the time too.
Until Bob gets it apart, we're only guessing anyway. If it is 69.4 - and has sat for that long, rings could be a problem. Maybe the contacts made at team classic Suzuki UK might come in handy after all...

[husaberg]

Slow down a bit there Husa. Builder said Air cooled gsx1000 katana pistons - 69.4 bore. std 750 is 67 so that's a 2.4mm overbore. Knowing suzuki barrels, I'd doubt if 72mm is practical - let alone 74mm - without resleeving.
It was built for the Aussie 1000cc limit of the time too.
Until Bob gets it apart, we're only guessing anyway. If it is 69.4 - and has sat for that long, rings could be a problem. Maybe the contacts made at team classic Suzuki UK might come in handy after all...

I am only going from the builders claim of 860cc but yeah until it stripped who knows..........

Well this is grandfathers axe discussion. The original bike was destroyed in a fire at a workshop during extensive mods to go back on the track (so I have been told). The new owner who got it soon after the swan series wanted to invest heavily in a trick bike.
That means he did not use a lot of stuff from the bike as raced.
So what I have is:-
-A replica frame built and welded by Chris Dowde in the same jig he built for the original
-Swingarm is an 1100 EFE item caged and moded to fit same as original
-I have the original front end including billet fork brace and EFE 1100 brake dive mods as per Chris Dowde
-Replica engine ESD 750 running the forged Katana Air Cooled 1000 pistons (the production racing special with wire wheels. actual capacity actually just under 860cc
-I have the original Dymag front Wheels 16" and the hand widened (yes you are reading correctly) mag built by Chris when the racing wheel ordered from England did not arrive in time. The disks on the original are from the RG 500 Mk 5 and were floating disc. I used Brembo items.
-The crank is the original item with the alternator end lopped off. A secondary oil pump drive developed for the original but not used due to time pressure is fitted to this engine.
Sorry no carbs they were cannibalised. Grumph looks like santa.

I have a few sets of barrels and a couple of heads etc that go with it.
If you are still interested I will photograph the bike and send them.
Happy to sell to a good home.
No bodywork , I changed all that to get rid of the sitting on a fence seating position.
Regards Leon





Here is the stuff you wanted anyway


There's more than one way to do it...
Pressed these out today. 3mm wall 6061 alloy tube in a size where the ID doesn't need to be touched to match the carb.
40mm long, recess machined at the carb end to suit the body OD. The main portion of the length is then machined to approx 1.8mm wall thickness - taking it off the OD. Lightly polished on the lathe to assist pressing.
Pressed onto a male form made up in mild steel and highly finished. Well lubed when pressing.
I've done bigger ones before and it's possible to get an impressive flare on the end before it splits...
342176


Press forms for 2 sizes of bellmouth and a couple of samples. Forms are just turned up from scrap mild steel. The shape and form of the taper can be whatever you prefer.
It would in theory be possible to actually do a roll on the outer edge of the bell, I've made a form for that on steel silencer ends way back. As what i'm using is 6061 in T6 condition, I'd doubt if it would form that much without annealing - which i've not found necessary yet.
The disadvantage of using tube for the raw material is of course finding the correct size...The last lot was particularly hard as i could have bought a 5m stick but not the small quantity I wanted. Solution - ask the wholesalers who they last supplied and go beg an offcut.
342177

[Grumph]

Thanks Husa. The 29's take the larger ones in the 2nd pic. The set of four in the first pic use the smaller size. They're actually Kawasaki Z650 carbs narrowed and remounted to suit the big CB350/4 I built. 26mm bore vs the OE Honda 20mm odd.
I have enough tube left in stock to do a batch for myself and Bob's set - if I don't split too many.

[Drew]

Still got my hand up to ride for ya.

[sidecar bob]

Still got my hand up to ride for ya.

What age are you considering riding to?:laugh:

[husaberg]

the GS1000s was 69.4mm std bore. they have 1.5mm higher domes.
The biggest listed piston on the std sleeve for a 750 is 70mm or 3mm over.
My thoughts are if you are going against 1000cc bikes in the swan series and you go to all the trouble of adapting a outboard mag and other mods a new set of sleeve isnt an issue
On the other hand its a lot of trouble to go to on a replica.
Warwick likely has access to a Gn250 piston to measure. Which have likel had a fair few designs over the years along with the DR and sp versions.
Diameter(mm): 72
Pin(mm):18
Total Height(mm):53
Compress Height(mm):27
Doom Height(mm):0
https://image.dhgate.com/albu_870109686_00/1.0x0.jpg

The 18mmx63 pin was std on Suzuki GS750 80-81 4-valve- GS1000 78-81 2-valve- GS1100 4-valve


Pretty sure the older roller bearing GS's had the same rods and the Gn's with odball bearing sizes. the Kawasaki from what i found ran Kl250 Kz200 rods

[Grumph]

Forget GN250 pistons. The exhaust valves are wide apart compared to any of the fours. The cutaways would have to be reworked severely.

The GS/GSX confusion is coming back too. The 16V750 GSX uses the same pin size as the GSX400 twin - but not the same as the GSX1100 - and the 1135 is bigger again. If you were serious about a big GSX750, you'd have to use aftermarket rods in order to use pistons made for the bigger 16V engines.
Then you run into the well known lubrication and bottom end issues of those motors.
Simpler to bolt in an 1100 - which uses pretty well the same mounts anyway.

[husaberg]

Forget GN250 pistons. The exhaust valves are wide apart compared to any of the fours. The cutaways would have to be reworked severely.

The GS/GSX confusion is coming back too. The 16V750 GSX uses the same pin size as the GSX400 twin - but not the same as the GSX1100 - and the 1135 is bigger again. If you were serious about a big GSX750, you'd have to use aftermarket rods in order to use pistons made for the bigger 16V engines.
Then you run into the well known lubrication and bottom end issues of those motors.
Simpler to bolt in an 1100 - which uses pretty well the same mounts anyway.


Pretty sure the 1100 is lighter even but that raises a point why did they use the os 750 engine?
the pins stuff was from here the yanks often call the first 4v GS
https://www.z1enterprises.com/piston-pin-18mm-x-24724quot-unchromed-gs.html
https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=_CWcbfdLZ5MC&pg=RA15-PA50&lpg=RA15-PA50&dq=gs1000s+cycleworld&source=bl&ots=iSQfhcC91f&sig=ACfU3U2z-e1la2Y9vSQsMwXWCIyt5Mz_5A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiKsqj1jvziAhUFfH0KHcNPDCMQ6AEwCXoECAUQA Q#v=onepage&q=gs1000s%20cycleworld&f=false
https://www.yeoldecycleshoppe.com/?offset=1481127704944
from memory the gs400 was eventually half a gs750
i had all the dimensions on the early gs and GSX internals on my old laptop but that was lost in a crash i think.
you have seen the insides of far more than i have but there is a fair bit of changes in them even in the GSX series model to model.

[Grumph]

I've just pointed out the same confusion on a GS forum. Idiot yank said that an 8 valve GS400 twin - a GSX - took 14mm plugs cos the NGK catalogue said so.
The early 4 valve GS400 twin does - the GSX uses 12mm. Bloody silly marketing decision to keep calling the family GS in the US. Confusing.

Why use the 750 engine as a base ? well early on in the thread I posted pics of the Moriwaki Honda 750 that Phyllis had ridden in Japan. Very similar to what they built. Yosh was working on the 750 at the time cos TTF1 - and the AMA superbikes - were going 750. I sent Bob a copy of a Revs with an article - and pics - of what Yosh were racing in japan. From 400/4 through 750 to 1000, all were using a frame which is a dead ringer for the GSXR400.
The Honda VF750 was just coming in - and was very fast when it held together. Phyllis had been racing the 1000 Katana and was struggling to match the VF750's. Less power, yes, but lighter and more nimble. There was also a move at the time to make the top class in OZ 750's. Happened of course when WSB arrived.
The 750 was seen as the future. Better head than the equivalent Honda. More revs than the old roller engines could sustain safely. But then we found the weakness. Yosh got around it by making their own cranks...

[Grumph]

Used up what tube I had left of the right size. Enough for both of us.

[sidecar bob]

Used up what tube I had left of the right size. Enough for both of us.

Awesome, now there's a reason to be cheerful. Thanks.:2thumbsup

[Drew]

Awesome, now there's a reason to be cheerful. Thanks.:2thumbsup

Yeah, because semi retired with a smoking hot wife isn't enough to keep you happy.

[sidecar bob]

Yeah, because semi retired with a smoking hot wife isn't enough to keep you happy.

"Aww bless him" apparently.:msn-wink:
It took a fair bit of effort & planning though to be fair.

[Grumph]

It took a fair bit of effort & planning though to be fair.

And that's only Tracey's side, LOL.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Used up what tube I had left of the right size. Enough for both of us.kitty is disinterested

[jellywrestler]

And that's only Tracey's side, LOL.

Steve confided with me early on there, he'd looked through her wardrobe and found an air hostess unifrom, a police womans uniform, a nurses uniform and an womans airforce uniform and a wiatresses outfit all were clearly the summer outfits, he wondered from that whether she only worked in summer and couldn't keep down one particular job.....

[sidecar bob]

Well there is actually a RNZAF one & it still fits her almost 30 years later.

[nodrog]

Well there is actually a RNZAF one & it still fits her almost 30 years later.

She's got a slutty postman's one too.

[jellywrestler]

She's got a slutty postman's one too.

ahh, the old postmans knockers game...

[sidecar bob]

She's got a slutty postman's one too.

I heard you have one too postman phat.

[nodrog]

I heard you have one too postman phat.

Yeah mines arseless.

[Grumph]

kitty is disinterested

She was giving me the cold shoulder as it was nearly feeding time - which is more important than bike bits.
One of her current litter wanted to run off with a bellmouth. Thinking of calling him Drew...

[Drew]

Thinking of calling him Drew...

I like to run off with the whole bike.

Still got CBR valves, springs, and gaskets in the van waiting to be posted.

[Grumph]

I like to run off with the whole bike.

Still got CBR valves, springs, and gaskets in the van waiting to be posted.

Go to your local Bunnings for a box. Down here there's an area behind the checkouts full of boxes free to take away.

[sidecar bob]

Has a few minutes up my sleeve today, so pulled Some bits off the bike.
I ended up lying the bike down & pulling the much lighter frame off the engine.
It was still a struggle & a credit to the guy that made it fit in the first place.

[husaberg]

Has a few minutes up my sleeve today, so pulled Some bits off the bike.
I ended up lying the bike down & pulling the much lighter frame off the engine.
It was still a struggle & a credit to the guy that made it fit in the first place.

looks like the outboard mag and drive was done to make the engine fit rather than just for width?
that sump sits nice and deep too.
Oh i see pic two isnt the mounted position is it due to the undershoot countershaft.

[sidecar bob]

looks like the outboard mag and drive was done to make the engine fit rather than just for width?
that sump sits nice and deep too.
Oh i see pic two isnt the mounted position is it due to the undershoot countershaft.

Yes, Id stopped for a break & to re asses the situation at that point.
Im going to reinstall the frame over the engine without forks & swingarm fitted.
Will put some pics up of various hand made parts that I've removed over the next day or two.

[Grumph]

Fasteners out of the cam cover - pulling that off would give a bit more room to move, LOL.

I see the detatchable side rail has a crossmember in front of the motor. Don't remember if the 400 has that as stock.
It's right where I added one on the kawa 500 which also has the bolt in side rail.

Standard way to build one like this is to sit the bare mainframe on a box, add the motor, then build up each end.
Once it's got wheels in, it can come off the box.

[sidecar bob]

Fasteners out of the cam cover - pulling that off would give a bit more room to move, LOL.

I see the detatchable side rail has a crossmember in front of the motor. Don't remember if the 400 has that as stock.
It's right where I added one on the kawa 500 which also has the bolt in side rail.

Standard way to build one like this is to sit the bare mainframe on a box, add the motor, then build up each end.
Once it's got wheels in, it can come off the box.

I got it with no cam cover bolts, so that wasn't me, I doubt it comes off with the engine in situ either.
The detachable member is factory 400 as it is on all the other 400's I've got.

[husaberg]

There was a cheap GSX750 on TM the other day pretty sure it was in Towellwonga, di you pick that up..........

[roogazza]

I got it with no cam cover bolts, so that wasn't me, I doubt it comes off with the engine in situ either.
The detachable member is factory 400 as it is on all the other 400's I've got.

hey bob seen this ? https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156826648338863&set=gm.2509608479259363&type=3&eid=ARAE3wSV416dZMuzAnx3uyo28stIv5w0r1aKJl0gno2o_L kqnqGwQReQ-XCtoHme6jTtDpVyNUfAMv5i&ifg=1

[sidecar bob]

hey bob seen this ? https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10156826648338863&set=gm.2509608479259363&type=3&eid=ARAE3wSV416dZMuzAnx3uyo28stIv5w0r1aKJl0gno2o_L kqnqGwQReQ-XCtoHme6jTtDpVyNUfAMv5i&ifg=1

Thanks for that.
I'd suggest that the hand made fork brace off that bike is now on my bike too.

[sidecar bob]

There was a cheap GSX750 on TM the other day pretty sure it was in Towellwonga, di you pick that up..........

I saw one in Wellington fairly cheap, didn't see one in Tauranga though.
It would suit me better to get just a spare engine at this stage, because I really don't need any more dead bikes lying around.

[Grumph]

I saw one in Wellington fairly cheap, didn't see one in Tauranga though.
It would suit me better to get just a spare engine at this stage, because I really don't need any more dead bikes lying around.

There's been a few 750 pop-up katanas converted to 1100's - should be one or two engines sitting under benches.

I know of one locally, I'll ask.

[sidecar bob]

There's been a few 750 pop-up katanas converted to 1100's - should be one or two engines sitting under benches.

I know of one locally, I'll ask.

If we found an engine in Christchurch it would save me sending two engines south;)

[husaberg]

I saw one in Wellington fairly cheap, didn't see one in Tauranga though.
It would suit me better to get just a spare engine at this stage, because I really don't need any more dead bikes lying around.

It was Welly sorry it went for 300
I never knew thay made the AC 750 that late?
https://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/parts-for-sale/wrecking-bikes/listing-2227005784.htm

[rustys]

Really loving the read on this thread, its like a story coming together.
I've been following this since day, one, and its amazing when someone starts a project and puts it out there, specially if the bike has a bit of history behind it, to watch and listen to all the help, feedback and knowledge coming in from fellow enthusiast's, news paper clippings, magazine articles etc, sounds now like you have the complete history of the bike, for the project, credit to you Steve, and everyone thats helping.

I had Paul Martindale around for dinner last night and we just happened to touch on putting larger motors into 400 frames to which we have both done ourselves, and raced them, the discussion happend to lead to this very same bike that Raced in the Swan Series when Robbie P rode it, mentioned to him that a thread was running on Kiwi Biker about the very same bike.

I'am glad to see after a lot of effort that you have now sorced this very same bike, (no replica now) and having the dream and passion to get it up and running again, which i know you will. Can't wait for further progress reports, to eventually see and hear it, this will be fantastic, so keep up the good work.:niceone:

[sidecar bob]

Here's a few pics of today's progress.
A few close ups of pre cnc components.
Pic one, swingarm from gsx1135 modified to fit with added bracing.
Pic two, frame cutout to allow larger engine.
Pic three, down tube bracing.
Pic four, modified rear linkage & Spax shock, dimensions copied from RG500
Pic five, prepped frame ready for reassembly.

[husaberg]

Here's a few pics of today's progress.
A few close ups of pre cnc components.
Pic one, swingarm from gsx1135 modified to fit with added bracing.
Pic two, frame cutout to allow larger engine.
Pic three, down tube bracing.
Pic four, modified rear linkage & Spax shock, dimensions copied from RG500
Pic five, prepped frame ready for reassembly.

So why is the front left cradle, plated?

[sidecar bob]

So why is the front left cradle plated?


What's cradle plating? I'm just a simple bike restorer.

[jellywrestler]

What's cradle plating? I'm just a simple bike restorer.

or has someone plated the front left cradle?

[sidecar bob]

or has someone plated the front left cradle?

It's cut, reinforced & plated to make room for the engine & pipes, plus reinforcement.
That's mainly why I imported it.
The air cooled motor didn't just drop in.
The two tubes, round & square at the top are non factory too.

[husaberg]

It's cut & plated to make room for the engine & pipes, plus reinforcement.
That's mainly why I imported it.
The air cooled motor didn't just drop in.
342579
for others Here is the std Frame Bob already has one for reference.:scratch:

I see they have covered over the std kink by the look of it.
the reason i asked is i thought the weakness would be more to the rear of the cradle.

[sidecar bob]

for others Here is the std Frame Bob already has one for reference.:scratch:

I see they have covered over the std kink by the look of it.
the reason i asked is i thought the weakness would be more to the rear of the cradle.

It may well be, but it's not for me to argue with or change. This isint the ese thread where everyone knows better than the maker:rolleyes:

[Drew]

It may well be, but it's not for me to argue with or change. This isint the ese thread where everyone knows better than the maker:rolleyes:

That thread is internationally referenced for two stroke tuning, so ya prolly barking up the wrong tree there.

[husaberg]

It may well be, but it's not for me to argue with or change. This isint the ese thread where everyone knows better than the maker:rolleyes:

I have no idea it was just an observation, Dont fret, i will return to counting the fasteners and making sure you use the correct rivets later.:innocent:
I was trying to figure out why it was done.
I see clearer from this pic what has been done

342580342581

[sidecar bob]

That thread is internationally referenced for two stroke tuning, so ya prolly barking up the wrong tree there.

I appreciate that, and I'm not disagreeing with you, just saying wrong thread.
I'm tidying up an old bike, that's all.

[Drew]

I'm tidying up an old bike, that's all.

I still wanna ride one of them.

[Grumph]

It may well be, but it's not for me to argue with or change. This isint the ese thread where everyone knows better than the maker:rolleyes:

Of course everyone knows better than the maker - he was an Australian. Positively disloyal to think he got it all right.

Looks to me like the downtubes were curved as std to clear the 400 exhausts. The 750 pipes would be wider spaced so, as straight is stronger, they were built up to be straight - ish.