Crashing

[Deano]

What are racer's thoughts about crashing ?

How often is too little or too much ?

I know what Drew and Mr Shirriff's thoughts are on the matter......ya carnts !!

I mean, I try pretty damn hard and get some good results.....better than average anyway.

But I haven't crashed in the whole time I've been racing (4 years). I've had a few bins riding on the road (no major's - very badly sprained/bruised foot was the worst)

Oh hang on - I crashed a bucket (AJ's Christine) at the slipway......doing all of about 20kph. Does that count ? "Everyone" crashed Christine.

I've run off the race track 3 times at high speed. Two of those I could have seriously farked myself up, and I've had a lot of other small moments.

I never used to buy into the "you need to crash to find the bikes limits", or "if you're not crashing, you're not pushing hard enough".

I prefered to find the limits at a slightly slower rate and rely on feedback from the bike to let me know when its about to let go. But I have been recently reassessing that philosophy.

So what are your thoughts ?

p.s. This is a bit of a larf really so don't take any of it too seriously.

[yungatart]

From my point of view as a marshall, I'd prefer if you lot didn't crash...especially at my point!
It makes my job a lot easier.
Keep it up, Deano

[Str8 Jacket]

It's a hard one.... After no offs for the past 2 years I had prepared myself for a few crashes this season but that was really more because I was planning on learning to move off the bike more and use the brakes less. After having the accident from the seizure last round I am a little hesistant about getting back on my RG and I actually feel a little nervous about getting back out there. I forgot what it was like to have a decent off on the track, it hurts and is a real ego killer!! I am not thinking about giving it up but I don't know if I will actually try and push myself once I get back out there in round 5.

I don't think crashing is an indication that someone sucks so much as how they handle it afterwards and what they learn't from it. I also think that there may be a bit of merit in the old "you never know how far you can push it until you lose it" mantra. Sometimes I think I need a bit of crashing practice anyway, you know just in case! ;)

[Kiwi Graham]

I think there is three reasons you crash, your fault, bikes fault and someone else's fault.

I guess if your trying something new, the way you know it works or not is if you come out the other side still on your bike!

Two things I know about crashing is.............it's expensive and it takes longer to mend the older you get!

[CHOPPA]

I think commenting on this subject might give me some bad karma or something hahaha

[codgyoleracer]

Reference article: :-)


http://www.glenwilliams.co.nz/Article-HowToCrashorNot.pdf

[Goblin]

Oh Deano...you've cursed yourself now. I started a thread in the same vein a few years back and it was Motorbob who told me the crashes find you...and they did.:(
Got taken out first time, then lost the front on turn 2 of the first practice of the day. I wasn't even trying.

Just keep racing and pretend you never started this thread. Hmkay?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Difficult one Deano. But I always found it hard to know just how hard I could go until I parted company with the bike!

[Trudes]

Crashing sucks and I try to avoid it...... sucks even more when the only reason you crash is because other people take you out :( but tis racing and unless you're prepared to crash at some point you shouldn't be doing it and we could all ride about in our undies. Anyway, like Goblin said, hope this thread hasn't jinxed you, maybe you're just a careful and thoughtful rider, which I think is not a bad thing! :)

[Qkkid]

I think there is three reasons you crash, your fault, bikes fault and someone else's fault.

I guess if your trying something new, the way you know it works or not is if you come out the other side still on your bike!

Two things I know about crashing is.............it's expensive and it takes longer to mend the older you get!
:shifty: Hang on a minute..............:scooter:
What about the weathers fault :scratch:
Pee gravels fault :blip:
Diesel on road Fault :blip::scratch:

[Kiwi Graham]

:shifty: Hang on a minute..............:scooter:
What about the weathers fault :scratch:
Pee gravels fault :blip:
Diesel on road Fault :blip::scratch:

All the above are someone else's fault ;)

[Deano]

I think commenting on this subject might give me some bad karma or something hahaha


Oh Deano...you've cursed yourself now. I started a thread in the same vein a few years back and it was Motorbob who told me the crashes find you...and they did.:(
Got taken out first time, then lost the front on turn 2 of the first practice of the day. I wasn't even trying.

Just keep racing and pretend you never started this thread. Hmkay?

You see I have deliberately tried to jinx myself/tempt fate several times recently in the hope of getting rid of my crash virginity. But it hasn't worked. I'm not superstitious either.

[Quasi]

Oh hang on - I crashed a bucket (AJ's Christine) at the slipway......doing all of about 20kph. Does that count ? "Everyone" crashed Christine.



Oh cripes - thats not the one he is trying to convince me to ride at the slipway this Sunday is it?:shit::gob::sick:

[sugilite]

I'd ask myself, how old are am I, and how well do I bounce? Having a few moments through the average race day tells me I'm close enough, I'm not sure what pushing that extra .05% will teach me. However, when I was younger on dirt bikes I was truly disappointed with myself if I had not at least had one crash per session. After my 1st black top crash, I modified my point of view and still had a few prangs anyway :lol:

[quallman1234]

Oh cripes - thats not the one he is trying to convince me to ride at the slipway this Sunday is it?:shit::gob::sick:

Nah, she died a while ago. Your in safe hands.....

[steveyb]

From the point of view of Moto Academy NZ we instill in our riders that if you are crashing you are watching, not riding and therefore not learning very much.
If you crash invariably you end up having to watch the rest of the race, nurse an injury, fix a damaged bike, buy a new helmet etc and by definition you are no longer on the track racing, which is what you came there to do.
So, the approach is to ride at the level which teaches you the most while achieving the outcome you started out wanting to achieve, like your approach Deano.
If your original goal turns out to be unrealistic e.g. "I'm going to win every race in my first year" or similar, so that you end up pushing beyond your abilities, then you need to adjust your goals to more accurately reflect the reality of your and your bikes abilities.
Only by riding can you understand what those abilities are and the goals should be.
In my experience very few new or inexperienced riders actually understand why they have crashed, unless the cause is very obvious, and hence they learn very little except how much it hurts.
The Keith Code approach is one of "slow down to go faster" and has so much merit.
The next step, after you reach a plateau what to do then? Do I need to push and crash or can I push and not crash?
That is up to each rider of course, but clearly it is possible to push and not crash by putting in place clear strategies to achieve an improvement.
Such as; get fitter, lose some more weight, understand your tyres and suspension better, study the circuit in more detail, work on each corner in detail, maintain a diary of your work but most of all, get on the track and try different things until you find something that works better than it did before.
So few riders actually do this in a concerted manner, but instead end up just riding round like they have always done.
And the last point: "GO AROUND THE CORNER!!" if you think you can't make it, tell yourself that you can and try anyway. You might just be surprised how you can make it round.

There you go, how 'bout that?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Some very valid points Steveyb, but it think it all depends on how far and fast you want to go. Name one top rider that doesn't crash (or hasn't in the past learning to go that fast) a fair bit?

[Deano]

Excellent points Crasher, Steve and Sugilite.

In my three full seasons of racing I have had a 2nd in PC Jnr, 3rd and 2nd in Pro Twins and always top ten in F3 at the streets on the SV, so I have been pretty happy with my progress, but still a little behind the likes of Geoff Booth, Dan Kempthorne, Ash Payne, Sam Love and now Rob Berryington-Smith in terms of lap times, so I'm wondering what is needed to bridge that gap.......push the bike harder ? Be more aggressive with overtaking and holding out other bikes ? Learn more about set up ? These are all my goals this year, and hopefully achievable without crashing.....but if it happens...shit happens eh ?

Now with Drew entering the fray on an SV also, we should be able to combine forces (nya aa aaaa) and both make some good gains.

Thanks for the replies and advice - good discussion !!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Also Deano...if you want to learn to be a 'tad' more agressive when riding in close company...get a cheap moto-x bike and go race some moto-x! Will also teach you more about absolute limits of traction etc.

[Deano]

Also Deano...if you want to learn to be a 'tad' more agressive when riding in close company...get a cheap moto-x bike and go race some moto-x! Will also teach you more about absolute limits of traction etc.

I had an RM80 when I was 10 and the power band scared the crap out of me initially. My dad asked if I wanted to race it and I said No. :slap:

I reckon I could have been a star if I had been courageous enough/pushed into it that young :shutup:

I had a KDX200 in my mid twenties and guess what.....I kept crashing it and injuring myself - then I couldn't do Muay Thai training, so the bike went. Same thing with the BMX freestyle bike I had.

So I think I'll pass on the motocross. Maybe the aggression thing will kick in more if/when Drew goes past me !!:2guns:

[scracha]

Now with Drew entering the fray on an SV also, we should be able to combine forces (nya aa aaaa) and both make some good gains.

How. Is Drew gonna crash in front of your opposition or summit?

[Biggles08]

I think there is three reasons you crash, your fault, bikes fault and someone else's fault.

I guess if your trying something new, the way you know it works or not is if you come out the other side still on your bike!

Two things I know about crashing is.............it's expensive and it takes longer to mend the older you get!

hahaha....I know a few that ONLY ever crash because of your last reason!

Funny because I have only ever crashed due to my own doing at National events. I guess its because I was trying harder around faster riders than me.
I personally would like to think you can push 'close enough' to the limit and learn from it, rather than always having to go over said limit to achieve the same. Of course, it never turns out that way but "I love it when a plan comes together!"

[gixerracer]

Crashing rocks it lets you no you are alive never is not enough and every time you ride is to much. Hope this helps
What are racer's thoughts about crashing ?

How often is too little or too much ?

I know what Drew and Mr Shirriff's thoughts are on the matter......ya carnts !!

I mean, I try pretty damn hard and get some good results.....better than average anyway.

But I haven't crashed in the whole time I've been racing (4 years). I've had a few bins riding on the road (no major's - very badly sprained/bruised foot was the worst)

Oh hang on - I crashed a bucket (AJ's Christine) at the slipway......doing all of about 20kph. Does that count ? "Everyone" crashed Christine.

I've run off the race track 3 times at high speed. Two of those I could have seriously farked myself up, and I've had a lot of other small moments.

I never used to buy into the "you need to crash to find the bikes limits", or "if you're not crashing, you're not pushing hard enough".

I prefered to find the limits at a slightly slower rate and rely on feedback from the bike to let me know when its about to let go. But I have been recently reassessing that philosophy.

So what are your thoughts ?

p.s. This is a bit of a larf really so don't take any of it too seriously.

[Deano]

Crashing rocks it lets you no you are alive never is not enough and every time you ride is to much. Hope this helps

Thanks Craig that's great advice - just like the key to going faster - later on the brakes and earlier on the gas eh :sherlock:

I was actually waiting for some less subtle comments from you......like what you said to Drew about the matter LOL.

[Clivoris]

Maate,
I agree with SteveB on this one. If you can improve without crashing, that's the way to do it.

[Tony.OK]

Cool thread Deano.

Tried it...............didn't like it one bit..........cost too much..........found out I'm a soft c*nt when it comes to pain!!

[steveyb]

Crashing rocks it lets you no you are alive never is not enough and every time you ride is to much. Hope this helps

Craig, can you be a bit more......





vague?

[Biggles08]

.found out I'm a soft c*nt when it comes to pain!! or just soft eh???:whistle:

[steveyb]

Some very valid points Steveyb, but it think it all depends on how far and fast you want to go. Name one top rider that doesn't crash (or hasn't in the past learning to go that fast) a fair bit?

Well that is true of course.
It is motorbike racing afterall. They do tend to fall over from time to time. Top riders need to push the envelope more so than learner riders, so may come off more often.
But look at Andrew Stroud. How many times does he crash these days?
Valentino Rossi? Does not crash so often any more (well not at all for the last two GPs...... hehehe. Poor taste I know).
The general philosophy of what I was saying is aimed more at the novice/learner type racer that is still learning what to do and suggests that the more you stay on the bike, the more you will learn.
We have all known new riders who go out and go like stink but come off more often than is otherwise warranted (a bit like me in the early days, though I wasn't tooooo bad).
Riders like this need to learn to slow down to go faster.
Part of it is also learning to relax on the bike so that you aren't strangling the life out of it and making it and you all tense. The more relaxed you can be the smoother you'll be able to ride. But I feel that this comes with experience and there is only one way to learn that.

[Crasherfromwayback]

All valid points as I said. I remember when I was starting out...often took me two odd laps to realize I wasn't even breathing! Breath slowly and deeply!

[Tony.OK]

or just soft eh???:whistle:

Yep, soft all over lately hahaa..........I do ride (or try to ride) a Honda ya know!!

[Kickaha]

I think there is three reasons you crash, your fault, bikes fault and someone else's fault.

I've had three of the first, two of the second and one of the last in 10 years racing, but doing about a meeting a month and one year about 18 different events

Least serious injuries on the sidecar (few grazes), most serious on the bucket (two fractures), I am convinced small bikes try to hurt you more



Funny because I have only ever crashed due to my own doing at National events.

I don't think someone taking your brake lever off with a close pass could be "considered you own doing"

[neil_cb125t]

Hmm yeah its one of those things that you hope only to do on practice days - but red mist often changes that...... I feel better after a small oooppsss followed by getting straight back on and giving it death, mind you my large high side and then free ambo ride last year was no so good....

i did learn the tyre wall at the end on turn 1 at manny is nice and soft.. you and the bike bounce well off that!!

if you wanna temp fate some more - paint the bike and get new leathers... that will do it.... watch this space at round 6 of VMCC ill have both!

[Pumba]

Crashing sucks, if you can avoid it do. Trust me I have become very well practised (as a sit here typing with a moon boot on my foot looking at the scare on my arm from six months ago)

This looks interesting though for those of us with Sky

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[CHOPPA]

Has Andrew Stroud ever crashed?

[Goblin]

Has Andrew Stroud ever crashed?Does the Pope wear a funny hat?

Deano, you're a good sensible rider with a lot of talent. I really hope you dont crash but if you do I hope you wont be injured and your bike doesn't get too wrecked that you cant patch it up and continue racing the same day.

[cowpoos]

What are racer's thoughts about crashing ?

How often is too little or too much ?

I know what Drew and Mr Shirriff's thoughts are on the matter......ya carnts !!

I mean, I try pretty damn hard and get some good results.....better than average anyway.

But I haven't crashed in the whole time I've been racing (4 years). I've had a few bins riding on the road (no major's - very badly sprained/bruised foot was the worst)

Oh hang on - I crashed a bucket (AJ's Christine) at the slipway......doing all of about 20kph. Does that count ? "Everyone" crashed Christine.

I've run off the race track 3 times at high speed. Two of those I could have seriously farked myself up, and I've had a lot of other small moments.

I never used to buy into the "you need to crash to find the bikes limits", or "if you're not crashing, you're not pushing hard enough".

I prefered to find the limits at a slightly slower rate and rely on feedback from the bike to let me know when its about to let go. But I have been recently reassessing that philosophy.

So what are your thoughts ?

p.s. This is a bit of a larf really so don't take any of it too seriously.

I'll give you my opinion.....you are a more complete rider than most!!
have great bike control, have great mental control, and don't obviously suffer mental fatigue or red mist.

and I know your faster than most!!

I reckon the saying you need to crash to find your limits is bulshit...you crash when you fuck up!

{ps: I've never fall off in a race either}

[Kickaha]

{ps: I've never fall off in a race either}

Thats because you were so fucking slow

[cowpoos]

Crashing rocks it lets you no you are alive never is not enough and every time you ride is to much. Hope this helps

Yeah....just like eating lots of pies tells you your stomach is full eh craig!! but you can't stop eating pies because pies are soooo good...got to eat pie....mmm love pie!!

[Rogue Rider]

From my experience, which I have to be honest was mostly motor cross styles, yes you do learn when you push towards your limits, But, I never pushed or aimed to push past my limits.
You can usually only learn from mistakes, and or other peoples mistakes, (learning from others is preferable lol...)
I found the best riding I ever did, was when I was at mo most comfortable and when I was in a relaxed physical and emotional state. The more relaxed you are, the less clinical and mechanical you are, hence you become one with machine.
I imagine track racing will be similar in respect of pace and maneuverability. The only real diff will be in the speeds, and obstacles. on the tracks you will be going considerably faster, however you shouldn't be comfronted by gorse bushes, trees, or pylons if you miss a bend, corner or jump lol.

[cowpoos]

Thats because you were so fucking slow

How would you know...you were at the fucking pie cart fatty...not even watching!

[roadracingoldfart]

Something to ponder over Deano.
Most top level racers (Moto GP , SBK) all crash when either practicing or in timed practice, this tells me they have an ability to guage where to push and have an advantage from finding thier own level of physics fooling ability.

If for EG; you do the same thing every lap and consider it to be ok and then see another rider going on a diff line or much faster for whatever reason , you have to try it to see if its something you can do or just the other guy. Like Steevie , we would all fall off cornering like him but he manages to do it and for the most part stays up (hes slow though) .

Wayne Rainey was quoted as saying ... I always wondered how Kevin Schwantz could get through a certain corner as fast as he did and then i watched him from close up and realised he was crashing while still upright everytime he went through that corner. He was the only one that could but he was over the limit doing it.

You dont crash because you have a good package and the feel for the bike and the track , move to another track and you may crash a bit more to make up for such a good time at Manfeild lol.

On a simple note , feel free to use my Motto,
Give it just enough shit to make a differance , but not so much shit as to make it happen.

Paul.

[roadracingoldfart]

All valid points as I said. I remember when I was starting out...often took me two odd laps to realize I wasn't even breathing! Breath slowly and deeply!


Only 2 laps Pete?? When i did the first 6 hour it was 20 mins till i could breathe lol , those Le Mans starts are a bitch.

[Matt Bleck]

I really don't like crashing and I don't see how it can make you faster, make you look like a dick, but not a fast dick.....

[Biggles08]

I don't think someone taking your brake lever off with a close pass could be "considered you own doing"

Haahaha...that's my team mate your talking about there!!!! I wasn't referring to that one...you are right, I think that could be classed in the "someone else's fault" category...but I did crash at Ruapuna high-siding out of the dipper and low sided at turn 4 at Hampton...all of my own doing.

[scracha]

{ps: I've never fall off in a race either}
What, all 3 races umpteen years ago.?

Seriously though....aim to find your limits during practise. Unless you're some inhuman then you're gonna make mistakes when pushing at near 100%. You might not even be making mistakes.....you might go through the same corner 30 times but on the 31st time there might be something on the track or your shock overheats, etc etc.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I really don't like crashing and I don't see how it can make you faster, make you look like a dick, but not a fast dick.....

Nobody likes doing it mate...but it's gotta be done if you want to actually win something at some stage. Why do you think people like Spies etc are still doing it? To look like dicks?

[Matt Bleck]

Nobody likes doing it mate...but it's gotta be done if you want to actually win something at some stage. Why do you think people like Spies etc are still doing it? To look like dicks?

Thats the worst part, I was winning when I binned....... :cry:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Well at least you now know what you can't do! Win the next one instead. As long as you learn from ya bin and didn't get hurt it's all good.

[Edbear]

Thats the worst part, I was winning when I binned....... :cry:


Doncha jus' hate that...? :bye:

[scroter]

I never used to buy into the "you need to crash to find the bikes limits", or "if you're not crashing, you're not pushing hard enough".

[/SIZE]

I dunno the answer to this but I had no idea how hard I was pushing my bike till I fell off it, having said that a change of technique has moved that problem further away again (at that particular spot anyway). none of this means much though cause I cant keep up with you.

[Drew]

Four years of racing without a crash is just fuckin un-natural. You should be burned as a witch.

[Quasievil]

7 years and 5 crashes and two months total of work.
1st crash,GSXR400 pushing to hard in the wet chasing frosty for 2nd spot
2nd crash, SV650 avoiding Keystone and that one hurt
3rd crash, KTM 525 Paeroa did know about the wet fucking manhole cover, that fucking hurt
4th Crash, KTM 525 Paeroa, me being a little to keen
5th Crash, KTM 525 VMCC Manfield trying for second spot, that hurt my pride (pulling the bike on top of me idiot !)

Kinda Over racing for now, future who knows

[cowpoos]

Four years of racing without a crash is just fuckin un-natural. You should be burned as a witch.

Shut up fuck knuck....and read my signature....and remember those that live in glasshouses....................................... .......................!!!?!!!

[wharfy]

Four years of racing without a crash is just fuckin un-natural. You should be burned as a witch.

Wot he said :)

DON'T do it !!
What I have learned so far from crashing - it's REALLY expensive, and sometimes Hurts.

Most of mine were caused by me panicking

[Crasherfromwayback]

Here you all go...

http://alp-sys.com/honda-elsinore/publications/magazine/MXA/83May-Magoo/83May-Magoo.pdf

[gixerracer]

Thats so cool that dude is such a legend/hero
Here you all go...

http://alp-sys.com/honda-elsinore/publications/magazine/MXA/83May-Magoo/83May-Magoo.pdf

[CHOPPA]

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Maybe you can learn to go fast in other ways and change some of your bad techniques before you crash. I watch fast guys and video tape them and try to do things similar if im struggling, i also follow people when i get to new tracks in order to go quicker faster

[Biggles08]

<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CACI%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtm l1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:595.3pt 841.9pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt; mso-header-margin:35.4pt; mso-footer-margin:35.4pt; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> I watch fast guys and video tape them....

I watch and video tape you choppa :love: (insert crazy evil laugh)

[DEATH_INC.]

However, when I was younger on dirt bikes I was truly disappointed with myself if I had not at least had one crash per session. Me too! I usta just pick up the pace 'till I got off. Seemed to help back then, I got pretty fast.
I'm still convinced that you cannot know your limit 'till you've been there. How can you? (unless you're faster than everyone else, then it may not matter....)

[cowpoos]

<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5CACI%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtm l1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w:DontGrowAutofit/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:LatentStyles DefLockedState="false" LatentStyleCount="156"> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0cm; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:595.3pt 841.9pt; margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt; mso-header-margin:35.4pt; mso-footer-margin:35.4pt; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0cm; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ansi-language:#0400; mso-fareast-language:#0400; mso-bidi-language:#0400;} </style> <![endif]--> Crashing doesnt necessarily show you the limit it might just highlight your inadequacies. I have crashed places where others were going through faster probably so that means i was doing something wrong.

Maybe you can learn to go fast in other ways and change some of your bad techniques before you crash. I watch fast guys and video tape them and try to do things similar if im struggling, i also follow people when i get to new tracks in order to go quicker faster

Best post of the thread IMHO

[cowpoos]

Me too! I usta just pick up the pace 'till I got off. Seemed to help back then, I got pretty fast.
I'm still convinced that you cannot know your limit 'till you've been there. How can you? (unless you're faster than everyone else, then it may not matter....)

I reckon you can find the limit without falling off....having a moment and staying on...I also think the limit should be defined as an individuals limit and the machines limit [within its current setup]

[jellywrestler]

....and remember those that live in glasshouses....................................... .......................!!!?!!!
should have sex in the basement...

[cowpoos]

should have sex in the basement...

great advice!!!

[FROSTY]

In my opinion everybody is different when it comes to what works for them chasing speed on the track. me I prefer to push a bit harder every practice lap. Focus on my (many) weaknesses and work out how to go a bit faster next lap.

[Bikemad]

You see I have deliberately tried to jinx myself/tempt fate several times recently in the hope of getting rid of my crash virginity. But it hasn't worked. I'm not superstitious either.

thats an easy fix deano........where and when ya racin next.............im sure i could get in the way for ya.........

[wharfy]

You'd be better off spending the $1000 or so that it costs to repair/replace bike/leathers/helmet/bones at the superbike school.
( which is my plan after I've paid off the credit card bill I've racked up for repairs/leathers/helmet/bones :) )

[Drew]

You'd be better off spending the $1000 or so that it costs to repair/replace bike/leathers/helmet/bones at the superbike school.
( which is my plan after I've paid off the credit card bill I've racked up for repairs/leathers/helmet/bones :) )Dunno Kev, so many GP and superbike riders crash in practice, then go on to the podium in the race.

[Biggles08]

Dunno Kev, so many GP and superbike riders crash in practice, then go on to the podium in the race.or break a shin...

[Drew]

or break a shin...That's the risk of making a two wheeled vehicle go as fast as possible. That risk is what gives us the buzz.

[9193a]

Dunno Kev, so many GP and superbike riders crash in practice, then go on to the podium in the race.

These are guys at the top of their game, I and I doubt they learn much in the way of riding skill from it. They probably learn something about the set-up I guess.
Although Rossi did say he made a mistake in letting one side of the tyre cool down to much, so I guess he learned that :)

I still think for a club rider (even a good one like Deano who has a good shot at a national title in the near future) could learn more from a bit of tuition from a top racer or racing school than from crashing.

Or maybe my ex was right and I'm just not sensitive enough to learn from my mistakes ?

One of my favorite quotes "experience is what makes you recognize a mistake when you make it again" :)

Anyway I wouldn't like to see Deano crash (or anyone else for that matter)

[paultz250]

crashing has done nothing for me but eat away at my buget and my confidence (now i ride like an even older granny)

[Crasherfromwayback]

Probably because you don't know why you crashed?

[roadracingoldfart]

Probably because you don't know why you crashed?

Thats kind of true pete . I used to crash cause i tried to ride like you , thats why i thought crashing was normal , i soon learnt i was crashing cause i wasnt as good as you were at doing it, so i stopped and won shitloads of titles lol.
Crashing sorts your limitations out but never let it psych you i say , if you know why you binned it then you are aok , if you dont know , find out . Ask Nicki , she crashed worse than most of us ever will and she has no fears of the hairpin cause she knows exactly what went wrong. This in no way means you can avoid it happening again but it does keep the demons at bay.

Paul.

[Drew]

These are guys at the top of their game, I and I doubt they learn much in the way of riding skill from it. They probably learn something about the set-up I guess.

So, they learn a limitation then? Ya know, where something needs to change to go faster, or that nothing can be changed and not to go that fast.

No one would crash if they could progress in perfectly even increments, and take a corner exactly the same every time. But since there are too many variables I think that is impossible.

[gixerracer]

Probably because you don't know why you crashed?

Or your just chicken:shit:

[wharfy]

So, they learn a limitation then? Ya know, where something needs to change to go faster, or that nothing can be changed and not to go that fast.

No one would crash if they could progress in perfectly even increments, and take a corner exactly the same every time. But since there are too many variables I think that is impossible.

It's proved impossible for me thats for sure !!
3 out of the 5 crashes I know what happened (I panicked basically) I might be able to fix that with practice - The other 2 I have no clue, I thought things were going great - right up till I was on my arse (or head) !! I still don't know for sure what I did wrong - I don't think it was going to fast, I was dicing for 25th place !! :)
Looking forward to tomorrow though, to do a few laps (without crashing I hope :) )

I agree that crashing is almost inevitable doing this shit, but I don't think it should be a goal !!

[Crasherfromwayback]

I agree that crashing is almost inevitable doing this shit, but I don't think it should be a goal !!

I've never seen it as a goal that's for sure! To go faster than every other cunt was my goal. Just took a bit of crashing to sort it out.

[paultz250]

Or your just chicken:shit:

not chicken :angry: i just have a healthy respect for falling off and try noy to do it as much as posibile . and next time ill try not to fall under anther bike .learnt that last time:clap:

[iSPEED]

What are racer's thoughts about crashing ?

How often is too little or too much ?

I know what Drew and Mr Shirriff's thoughts are on the matter......ya carnts !!

I mean, I try pretty damn hard and get some good results.....better than average anyway.

But I haven't crashed in the whole time I've been racing (4 years). I've had a few bins riding on the road (no major's - very badly sprained/bruised foot was the worst)

Oh hang on - I crashed a bucket (AJ's Christine) at the slipway......doing all of about 20kph. Does that count ? "Everyone" crashed Christine.

I've run off the race track 3 times at high speed. Two of those I could have seriously farked myself up, and I've had a lot of other small moments.

I never used to buy into the "you need to crash to find the bikes limits", or "if you're not crashing, you're not pushing hard enough".

I prefered to find the limits at a slightly slower rate and rely on feedback from the bike to let me know when its about to let go. But I have been recently reassessing that philosophy.

So what are your thoughts ?

p.s. This is a bit of a larf really so don't take any of it too seriously.



Hi Deano - If you do happen to crash tomorrow, I hope you don't get hurt, but can you do it in front of me so I can get some good pics. - I need some more good stuff for my portfolio.

Muz.

[Deano]

Well, I came damn close to highsiding big time out of Dunlop in qualifying, but it seems no one saw it.

[roogazza]

Keep trying it'll happen !

[Matt Bleck]

Actually, I think he needs to try harder! :yes:

[Clivoris]

Hi Deano - If you do happen to crash tomorrow, I hope you don't get hurt, but can you do it in front of me so I can get some good pics. - I need some more good stuff for my portfolio.

Muz.

Maate.
Outstanding snaps again.

[iSPEED]

Maate.
Outstanding snaps again.

I guess I should put up the link for people to look at.... stimpy.smugmug.com, navigate to motorsport....
As stated on the site - I'm in it for the Photography, not the money, use my images if you find them pleasing. My favourite charity is the SPCA - send them a donation if you feel the uncontrollable urge to pay for them.
Murray.

[Deano]

I guess I should put up the link for people to look at.... stimpy.smugmug.com, navigate to motorsport....
As stated on the site - I'm in it for the Photography, not the money, use my images if you find them pleasing. My favourite charity is the SPCA - send them a donation if you feel the uncontrollable urge to pay for them.
Murray.

Thats awesome bro and so are the photos.