KX500 gearbox problem

[CHOPPA]

Any ideas before i strip it??

Bike just started making this clacking noise coming from the LHS/Chain/Shifter side. It was getting worse with every run, it was in all gears.

It sounded like a chain slipping over a worn sprocket but i have new chain and sprockets

[hayd3n]

loose chain or wheel alignment out?

[barty5]

if its not wheel etc out a line or worn sprocs (double check them) to me sounds like a clip holding one of the gears may have come adrift (have you drained the g/box any metal bits in it) maybe one of the dog gears not locking in if clip has gone.

[CHOPPA]

loose chain or wheel alignment out?

Na all that is spot on im pretty anal with anything like that, thanks though


if its not wheel etc out a line or worn sprocs (double check them) to me sounds like a clip holding one of the gears may have come adrift (have you drained the g/box any metal bits in it) maybe one of the dog gears not locking in if clip has gone.

Sprockets are mint but that certainly gives me some direction thanks mate! Well i suppose i better split it!

[noobi]

Just throwing it out there, does it click when you turn the wheel by hand, or is the rear wheel hard to turn? Could be collapsed or damaged bearings, but you say your pretty precise with that sort of thing. Just something I had happen once

[scott411]

sounds like it could be an output shaft bearing, would be a noise coming from where you say it is as well,

[Crasherfromwayback]

+ one for Scott's diagnosis. I've had about 6-7 KX 500's, and they're normally pretty bullet proof.

[CHOPPA]

Just throwing it out there, does it click when you turn the wheel by hand, or is the rear wheel hard to turn? Could be collapsed or damaged bearings, but you say your pretty precise with that sort of thing. Just something I had happen once

No it only does it under load..


sounds like it could be an output shaft bearing, would be a noise coming from where you say it is as well,

That sounds like a real possibility Scott, do i have to split the cases to check that?

[Crasherfromwayback]

You're gonna have to split them no matter what I'd say.

[CHOPPA]

Ah well its gotta be done! Piss easy really just a pain, my problem is that once i split it I feel like i should replace all the bearings etc etc but really cant afford to do that!!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yeah...but then you'll get another 10-15 years out of the old girl! By the pic...it looks like a 92-93 is it?

[CHOPPA]

Its actually a 2000 model but i put old graphics etc on to make it look like a 91

[Crasherfromwayback]

Not that they really changed from 1989 on! Bloody good fun to ride though!

[F5 Dave]

No it only does it under load..

Yeah I agree on output shaft brg, but I'd do a damn good look that it hasn't just eaten through the SW plastic guide & has found a bolt or edge to nibble on that only hear when power is pulling on chain.

[CHOPPA]

Yeah I agree on output shaft brg, but I'd do a damn good look that it hasn't just eaten through the SW plastic guide & has found a bolt or edge to nibble on that only hear when power is pulling on chain.

Cool, im about to pull the engine apart now, I have just rebuilt the bike from the ground up so there are no worn out items except the footpegs as it seems they run 2 diff types.... Only thing i hadnt touched is internal engine as it was all ex japan, ill prob go aftermarket just always used oem so hopefully will be ok

I could just put it on my Mr Motorcycle 2 years interest free account?????

[F5 Dave]

Std output shaft brg from local bearing retailer shouldn't set you back more than a pack or two of fags (if you were silly enough to smoke them). Sometimes they use bastard sizes, but not often these days. Oviously check the whole box for any rubbing gears or shifters etc & check for slope. Take to expert if uncertain.

[CHOPPA]

Well i got the engine out, got as far as the clutch, the outer basket is rooooted so its a good thing im checking it out, lots of black film in the intake behind the reeds as well, will pull the rest apart after dinner....

Oh there were no metal filings in the oil.... Well no more then you would expect

[Crasherfromwayback]

, lots of black film in the intake behind the reeds as well,

You're not using Castrol TTS by chance are you?

[CHOPPA]

You're not using Castrol TTS by chance are you?

The previous owner may have?? I have been using Castrol R lol only cause i like the smell and i always wreck shit so i will be pulling it apart regularly

Im as far as i can go now without a decent compresser for the clutch to run my rattle gun and a flywheel puller and case splitter...

[CHOPPA]

Good news is that barrel looks mint! Piston has heaps of blow by so should show some good improvements with new piston and rings

[Crasherfromwayback]

Choice. 'R' indeed smells nice. Hard to mix at times though. They may've changed the formula for TTS by now...but when I was at Boyles racing KX500's, we always found it left a nasty dark film on everything.

[CHOPPA]

I found thee problem, gearbox is mint but the LHS main bearing is rather noisy! Could be a cheapish fix but im really tempted to do the crank but thats more money then id like to spend :( I guess i could give it to an expert to check it out and if he gives it the ok it should be goin real soon

[CHOPPA]

Actually just checked on bits 4 bikes and its only $214rrp for a conrod kit and 130rrp for the big end bearings done!!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Do it and you know it's all good to go for a while yet!

[F5 Dave]

So can you get the main bearings from local bearing supplier? Should be able to match them up, will be C3 clearance, but it will be on them. This is of course where a bike shop or distributor (or indeed manufacturer) will buy them.

[CHOPPA]

So can you get the main bearings from local bearing supplier? Should be able to match them up, will be C3 clearance, but it will be on them. This is of course where a bike shop or distributor (or indeed manufacturer) will buy them.

Ill get All Balls bearings mate, easy to get and there well priced as far as i can tell

[oldguy]

and I was hoping to pickup a cheap KX500 in bits, not to ride, I maybe old but not silly, just a do up project over time.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Plenty of cheap but still good KX500's on Ebay mate

[Crisis management]

and I was hoping to pickup a cheap KX500 in bits, not to ride, I maybe old but not silly, just a do up project over time.

Give Choppa a couple of days to lose a few parts and you may be able to make him an offer he would be glad to accept.......

[Brian d marge]

The thing that has me thinking is that you said it happened in every gear, the things that are in action in every gear are the primary drive ( associated bearings ) and the selector forks ( hard changing gear ) and the sprocket and that the sound is loud enough to hear in every gear

I am just concerned that ( hard to put feelings into words sometimes ) well its happening in all gears , and if dogs go then its difficult to get into gear etc and its a clacking sound .... was there any other info , like low oil in gearbox ,

F5 dave I think shares the same concerns

anyway when you are going about replacing a bearing , most drive side bearings fail because of overtightened chains ( seems loose but near full compression the chain is rock solid , or fatties with standard springs,, again tightening the chain , kills the seal, grit , dirt , and sionara bearing

Even the power washer , nice and clean , removes all grease , sionara bearing

Anyway off topic , you dont have to put the same bearings back, you can get ( for the same dimensions ) a better seal and load carrying abilities , ( your bearing suplier can help , if you know the approx load )

Hope you get it all back together

BTW The Ruapuna round was shown briefly on Japanese TV ( I think it was Ruapuna as it was a few seconds early in the morning , if you were wearing blue and white leathers and have very short hair , then you have 14 min and 30 seconds of Fame left to use

Stephen

ps keep us posted

[Stylo]

Cool, im about to pull the engine apart now, I have just rebuilt the bike from the ground up so there are no worn out items except the footpegs as it seems they run 2 diff types.... Only thing i hadnt touched is internal engine as it was all ex japan, ill prob go aftermarket just always used oem so hopefully will be ok

I could just put it on my Mr Motorcycle 2 years interest free account?????

Been an owner/ rider and racer ( Offroad only ) of KX500's since 1997...all sounds a bit strange to me ! Still got one in my garage but, not sure if I can help .....

Couple of pic's to keep you going ......

[CHOPPA]

The thing that has me thinking is that you said it happened in every gear, the things that are in action in every gear are the primary drive ( associated bearings ) and the selector forks ( hard changing gear ) and the sprocket and that the sound is loud enough to hear in every gear

I am just concerned that ( hard to put feelings into words sometimes ) well its happening in all gears , and if dogs go then its difficult to get into gear etc and its a clacking sound .... was there any other info , like low oil in gearbox ,

F5 dave I think shares the same concerns

anyway when you are going about replacing a bearing , most drive side bearings fail because of overtightened chains ( seems loose but near full compression the chain is rock solid , or fatties with standard springs,, again tightening the chain , kills the seal, grit , dirt , and sionara bearing

Even the power washer , nice and clean , removes all grease , sionara bearing

Anyway off topic , you dont have to put the same bearings back, you can get ( for the same dimensions ) a better seal and load carrying abilities , ( your bearing suplier can help , if you know the approx load )

Hope you get it all back together

BTW The Ruapuna round was shown briefly on Japanese TV ( I think it was Ruapuna as it was a few seconds early in the morning , if you were wearing blue and white leathers and have very short hair , then you have 14 min and 30 seconds of Fame left to use

Stephen

ps keep us posted

Yeah very short hair haha I have the engine apart now and the gearbox and associated bearings look and feel mint however the LH crankshaft bearing is very noisy so im figuring this was the problem, not sure why i would only be able to hear it under load and not just by revving it but ill replace everything anyways

[CHOPPA]

Been an owner/ rider and racer ( Offroad only ) of KX500's since 1997...all sounds a bit strange to me ! Still got one in my garage but, not sure if I can help .....

Couple of pic's to keep you going ......

Just a tad jealous.... Ive had a CR500 as well, just like green bikes I guess. I wreck every bike I ride, just unlucky I guess but ever since I was 8yrs old I have killed clutches and gearboxes. I think its cause i learnt to ride on a kx80 that had good bottom end power then when i started to ride better we went to hondas that had no bottom end power so it was full throttle slipping clutch style that I have never been able to shake, even on a superbike hahaha

[Brian d marge]

Yeah very short hair haha I have the engine apart now and the gearbox and associated bearings look and feel mint however the LH crankshaft bearing is very noisy so im figuring this was the problem, not sure why i would only be able to hear it under load and not just by revving it but ill replace everything anyways

the loading is different

Check seal on cover to make sure crap isnt getting in.

Still curious about clack clack , was it engine speed or rear wheel speed ie if in a different gear did the sound seed up or slow down

curiouser and curiouser

Stephen ( off to watch Top gear no 2 ~)

[CHOPPA]

the loading is different

Check seal on cover to make sure crap isnt getting in.

Still curious about clack clack , was it engine speed or rear wheel speed ie if in a different gear did the sound seed up or slow down

curiouser and curiouser

Stephen ( off to watch Top gear no 2 ~)

It was while on the gas, once i backed off it would go away....

[Stylo]

It was while on the gas, once i backed off it would go away....

All good, take it easy and, good luck with your 500 mate.....

Nothing beats a Bike that'll lift the wheel in top gear .........


Don't make 'em anymore Dammit
Shame

[theblacksmith]

SMP in Frankton are very well priced for bearings Choppa.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Nothing beats a Bike that'll lift the wheel in top gear .........


Don't make 'em anymore Dammit
Shame

450 four strokes wheelstand in top gear no worries at all. They hook up better than 500 two strokes and are easily as fast in the dirt. On tar for that matter too.

[CHOPPA]

450 four strokes wheelstand in top gear no worries at all. They hook up better than 500 two strokes and are easily as fast in the dirt. On tar for that matter too.

It seems even smaller capacity 4 strokes like the KTM SXS350 are doing the deed on the world stage, i still think something like this would be fun!

http://servicehonda.com/kawasaki-2010-models/monster-kx500af

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yeah...although I think the 350's will be even higher maintenance than a 450.

That looks great I reckon...and I still do love 500 strokers.

[barty5]

problem with the 350 is its down on power but still wights in around the same as a 450

[CHOPPA]

problem with the 350 is its down on power but still wights in around the same as a 450

Yeah im all for more power!!!!

Id have one of these all day.....

700cc 2 stroke 90hp oh yeah!!! It would make a loose supermotard as well

http://www.maicointernational.com/index.html

[Ride it till the red]

problem with the 350 is its down on power but still wights in around the same as a 450

Thats not the point, it feels lighter to ride... Crank inertia, power delivery etc etc..... Just like the 250's aren't THAT much lighter yet they feel so much lighter when riding.
And lets be honest, most people can't use nearly what a 450 can give. Hence why most people can ride a 250 faster........
350 IMHO would just give it that little bit more pull that you can sometimes long for on a 250

[oldguy]

It seems even smaller capacity 4 strokes like the KTM SXS350 are doing the deed on the world stage, i still think something like this would be fun!

http://servicehonda.com/kawasaki-2010-models/monster-kx500af

you could always try shoe horning your motor in to a 2010 450 frame

[CHOPPA]

Thats not the point, it feels lighter to ride... Crank inertia, power delivery etc etc..... Just like the 250's aren't THAT much lighter yet they feel so much lighter when riding.
And lets be honest, most people can't use nearly what a 450 can give. Hence why most people can ride a 250 faster........
350 IMHO would just give it that little bit more pull that you can sometimes long for on a 250

The 350 would be good for the new school try to scrub every jump rider thats under say 80kgs but for someone like me a bit old school id still be quicker on a 450. A 350 would getted waxed on the starts as well, it will be interesting to see how they go, more interesting how mid pack riders will do on them rather then the team supported guys


you could always try shoe horning your motor in to a 2010 450 frame

Id love to do that! Im short of around 10k or so....

[Stylo]

450 four strokes wheelstand in top gear no worries at all. They hook up better than 500 two strokes and are easily as fast in the dirt. On tar for that matter too.

Sounds good, rode a Ktm530 at the w/e and it kept it's pants on and didn't wanna lift even in 4th, the 450's must be the go then...hope to have a ride soon, problem is I don't know anyone that has one .....:-(

[Stylo]

But then I guess the gearing makes a bit of difference ....any bike will pull the wheel in top if it's geared to do so .

I know the big Kx will and run through to somewhere around 150 k's in top with standard gearing but, not so sure about the 4-t's ?

As I say, the power difference is so much less on a 450 compared to an old school 500 .......help me with the maths, I'll stand to be corrected ....

[Crasherfromwayback]

But then I guess the gearing makes a bit of difference ....any bike will pull the wheel in top if it's geared to do so .

I know the big Kx will and run through to somewhere around 150 k's in top with standard gearing but, not so sure about the 4-t's ?

As I say, the power difference is so much less on a 450 compared to an old school 500 .......help me with the maths, I'll stand to be corrected ....

All three of my RMZ450's would wheelstand in top with std gearing. The 2010 model with real ease. The 05 4 speed topped out at around 70mph, and a KX500 on std gearing not much more. They (KX500's) only rev to 7500rpm, where as a 450 four stroke will rev to 11000rpm.

Your KX might feel like it's doing 150kph...but it ain't if you're running std sprockets. When I was road racing KX500's...I had to run 16/36 to get them to pull 180 kph. The 2010 RMZ450 I had, would pull the same speeds with a 15/38 combination no sweat.

[Stylo]

All three of my RMZ450's would wheelstand in top with std gearing. The 2010 model with real ease. The 05 4 speed topped out at around 70mph, and a KX500 on std gearing not much more. They (KX500's) only rev to 7500rpm, where as a 450 four stroke will rev to 11000rpm.

Your KX might feel like it's doing 150kph...but it ain't if you're running std sprockets. When I was road racing KX500's...I had to run 16/36 to get them to pull 180 kph. The 2010 RMZ450 I had, would pull the same speeds with a 15/38 combination no sweat.

Crasher, My apologies , the 450's are the fastest then , no argument

Still struggle with the maths but, the smaller, heavier bike wins......

Nice to have a low hour 500 though that 's poking out around 70 at the crank, lot of fun in the real sense , hence powerband stuff .... I'll let you know when I want to trade down the excitement factor and go for a fast 450 , all in good humour .....x

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yeah I've had the same discussion here with another KX500 owner! I know it's odd...and I know full well a KX500 is rated at 64 HP. As I say...I've road raced them to good effect. And an RMZ450 only does 54 HP on a good day...and weighs about 12kgs more. But in the dirt...they (450's) definately hook up better...and drive forward without nearly as much wheel spin as a KX or CR500 does. On tar...dunno. But I was a few seconds a lap quicker round Wanganui on my RMZ (and that was the '05' 4 speeder) than I ever went on KX500's!

Try a 4 stroker mate...at least the fuckers don't numb ya hands like a 500 2 stroke!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Just so you know I have had a bit of KX500 experience...here ya go!

[Stylo]

Yeah I've had the same discussion here with another KX500 owner! I know it's odd...and I know full well a KX500 is rated at 64 HP. As I say...I've road raced them to good effect. And an RMZ450 only does 54 HP on a good day...and weighs about 12kgs more. But in the dirt...they (450's) definately hook up better...and drive forward without nearly as much wheel spin as a KX or CR500 does. On tar...dunno. But I was a few seconds a lap quicker round Wanganui on my RMZ (and that was the '05' 4 speeder) than I ever went on KX500's!

No worries and I will if I get the chance, only four stroke I got in the garage is a G2 'Busa with a few add ons but, that may be another story

Try a 4 stroker mate...at least the fuckers don't numb ya hands like a 500 2 stroke!

Will do, Only 4 - Stroke I own is my Road bike at this stage anyway ....no problems with the vibe's on the KX , maybe I'm going too fast to realise I'm getting the buzzz ?

[Stylo]

Just so you know I have had a bit of KX500 experience...here ya go!

You're the man Crasher !

Nice pics mate .......

[CHOPPA]

Its the frame, suspension etc that lets the 500 down. I know i can ride a 450 quicker but the 500 gives you far more satisfaction when you beat 2010 technology on a 20 year old bike!

The thing about bike riding is theres always someone that can ride your old bike faster then you can ride your new one....

[CHOPPA]

Any mx bike will wheelstand in top gear

[Crasherfromwayback]

The thing about bike riding is theres always someone that can ride your old bike faster then you can ride your new one....

That...and no matter how fast you think you are...there's always someone out there faster! I've found that out plenty of times!

[scott411]

That...and no matter how fast you think you are...there's always someone out there faster! I've found that out plenty of times!

i know this feeling well, i have the misfortune at times to go riding with people that make me very humble,

taking BT trail riding after not riding for 9 months then trying to keep up ended up hurting me very much,

[Crasherfromwayback]

i know this feeling well, i have the misfortune at times to go riding with people that make me very humble,

taking BT trail riding after not riding for 9 months then trying to keep up ended up hurting me very much,

Mate...I used to flat with Stefan Merriman in Brisbane. Riding with him makes you feel quite inadequate!!

[Brian d marge]

Yeah I've had the same discussion here with another KX500 owner! I know it's odd...and I know full well a KX500 is rated at 64 HP. As I say...I've road raced them to good effect. And an RMZ450 only does 54 HP on a good day...and weighs about 12kgs more. But in the dirt...they (450's) definately hook up better...and drive forward without nearly as much wheel spin as a KX or CR500 does. On tar...dunno. But I was a few seconds a lap quicker round Wanganui on my RMZ (and that was the '05' 4 speeder) than I ever went on KX500's!

Try a 4 stroker mate...at least the fuckers don't numb ya hands like a 500 2 stroke!

have to agree , the four strokes dig in and get out of the corner quicker ( except my Enfield which is a Rocket ) but anyway , on a smoker it takes me half the straight to make up that 4t drive and then get them on the corner

on the jumpy bits , the smoker is lighter and in the twisty stuff is ( for me easier to use ) , even a 125


back to the original question I still cant get this clack clack out of my mind under load

and the LH main bearing is Fked

now the clearance between the pickup gap is about 8 though Check the pick up just in case

esquiring minds want to know

Stephen

[brp]

The thing about bike riding is theres always someone that can ride your old bike faster then you can ride your new one True :D

What makes the suspension , frame, so much better on the latest mx bikes compared to a kx500 ?

[scott411]

True :D

What makes the suspension , frame, so much better on the latest mx bikes compared to a kx500 ?

20 years of devolpment basically, its like comparing an 89 ZX10 to the latest ZX10R

the KX500 is very soft, and sits low in the stroke, you sit in the seat rather on top of the bike, the weight is very high in the frame, modern bikes turn much better,

[brp]

Cheers :Punk:

Looking forward to dialling in the suspension on the 500, impressed with it as it is (been set up for a short rider). Find traction good to by hooking through the gears quick, no powerband , nice control.

As four the 2 stroke vs 4 stroke discussion - think when they made 125 2 strokes race against 250 4 strokes and 250/450 it said it all !

Picking once the VMX class moves from 86 to 1990 - the $3000 KX500's won't be seen anymore on trade me.

[scott411]

Cheers :Punk:

Looking forward to dialling in the suspension on the 500, impressed with it as it is (been set up for a short rider). Find traction good to by hooking through the gears quick, no powerband , nice control.

As four the 2 stroke vs 4 stroke discussion - think when they made 125 2 strokes race against 250 4 strokes and 250/450 it said it all !

Picking once the VMX class moves from 86 to 1990 - the $3000 KX500's won't be seen anymore on trade me.

flywheels weights help alot on KX500's, i also used to start in 3rd gear with standard gearing, if you have the room you will still get holeshots with ease

[cs363]

flywheels weights help alot on KX500's, i also used to start in 3rd gear with standard gearing, if you have the room you will still get holeshots with ease

Didn't that KX500 bite you rather hard Scott? :innocent:

[Crasherfromwayback]

They tend to do that!

[scott411]

Didn't that KX500 bite you rather hard Scott? :innocent:

never had a big one on the 500 there Colin, it was the 125 a few weeks later that bit me pretty good,

but your getting old in years, so i can understand why your memory is fading,

[CHOPPA]

flywheels weights help alot on KX500's, i also used to start in 3rd gear with standard gearing, if you have the room you will still get holeshots with ease

So i prob shouldnt have lightened mine??

I think the problem with the big end came from running castrol r instead of decent synthetic oil

[Crasherfromwayback]

So i prob shouldnt have lightened mine??

I think the problem with the big end came from running castrol r instead of decent synthetic oil

They stall too easily if you don't have enough weight on them, it also makes the traction situation even worse.

I wouldn't be surprised if that oil was at least half the problem too.

[CHOPPA]

They stall too easily if you don't have enough weight on them, it also makes the traction situation even worse.

I wouldn't be surprised if that oil was at least half the problem too.

Ill just run the idle high i guess

[Crasherfromwayback]

Ill just run the idle high i guess

And that's not a bad thing on one of those beasts. Stops them going BING BING BING and firing you over the top of all the berms!

[CHOPPA]

Cant wait to get it out on a maize paddock or sand track (at the start of the day)

[Blagger]

Hey crasher, I take it that your comments re KX500s would also run true for CR500s of a similar vintage?

My mate rides one and even when he's got it running on song my 4 stroker hauls him in on the straights pretty easy - but then I'm a fairly crap rider and he's just plain loopy but that's another story

[sugilite]

All three of my RMZ450's would wheelstand in top with std gearing. The 2010 model with real ease. The 05 4 speed topped out at around 70mph, and a KX500 on std gearing not much more. They (KX500's) only rev to 7500rpm, where as a 450 four stroke will rev to 11000rpm.

Your KX might feel like it's doing 150kph...but it ain't if you're running std sprockets. When I was road racing KX500's...I had to run 16/36 to get them to pull 180 kph. The 2010 RMZ450 I had, would pull the same speeds with a 15/38 combination no sweat.

Shit, only 180? I ran that gearing on your old bike and was passing f3 bikes down the straights at manfield, not the fastest f3 bikes though. I did a 1:18 flat in 2004 with a SHITTY wiseco piston, wont do that again. It was def slower than a standard piston, so quite sure getting into the 17's is possible on a 500 with standard forks n shock. I don't think the 4 stroke brigade got into that territory at manfield till last year? I do remember looking down at the forks on one of those laps in the sweeper, holy fuck, they were flexing around like soggy pasta, I won't be looking at those again :lol:

The 450's are definitely easier to ride though, at least it looked that way to me when I was lying on the ground seeing you dissapear into the distance at that upper hutt race....TWICE! :shutup:

Personally, I like the challenge of riding a 500, having a bike that is looking for the slightest excuse to fuck you up is good fun :yes:

[crazyxr250rider]

^^^ that sounds like a fuck load of fun ,doing 180kph on a dirt bike that hasnt changed much since the eary 90's..

[crazyxr250rider]

fuck just noticed yours is a 92...

[Stylo]

^^^ that sounds like a fuck load of fun ,doing 180kph on a dirt bike that hasnt changed much since the eary 90's..

Guess they built 'em right back then ...as the saying goes, "don't say you know everything about Dirtbikes 'till you've clicked through the gears on a KX500 "

The 500's are reeal quick , always have been , always will be, just pity the poor bastards who have'nt had a chance to take one out and experience riding a 500 when it comes onto the powerband in third ....haha 4 Strokes don't quite cut the cake ...damn

[cs363]

never had a big one on the 500 there Colin, it was the 125 a few weeks later that bit me pretty good,

but your getting old in years, so i can understand why your memory is fading,

Bugger.....I wasn't 100% sure on that one, at least you've given me some faith in my memory seeing as it was around the same time.... :D

[Crasherfromwayback]

Hey crasher, I take it that your comments re KX500s would also run true for CR500s of a similar vintage?

My mate rides one and even when he's got it running on song my 4 stroker hauls him in on the straights pretty easy - but then I'm a fairly crap rider and he's just plain loopy but that's another story

CR500's are quicker than KX500's...but harder to ride. No power valves to tame them. But I stand by my statement that a modern 450 four stroke is faster in the dirt than a 500 2 stroke.