How to help a friend in need?

[Gone Burger]

How do you help a friend during their darkest times?

I have been helping a good friend for a while now try to get through a very dark time in his life. Just when I thought we were making progress, good progress, he has slipped back into an awful place.

He sufferers from depression. He is being treated and I thought he was finally on the right medication. But he in now suicidal again, and I fear that this time he may be successful.

His family know, I keep in close contact with his mother. He is getting plenty of support through hospitals, has been through psych wards and has plenty of help on hand. But he doesn't think he can get better.

Has anyone supported someone through this situation before? If so, how did you help?

I have a lot going on myself and don't feel strong enough to give him the help that he needs, but if something happened to him, it would be on my shoulders for the rest of my life.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm afraid he has given himself a time limit, and a very short one at that.

[98tls]

First up your not responsible for anyones elses decisions in life other than your own so whatever the outcome dont take the blame upon yourself,there must be people out there paid big $ to help with such things,if i had a friend the same i would go make a whole lotta noise until someone takes notice and goes and makes contact with your friend,ive a mate with Bi-polar and unless he sticks to his meds things get well outta hand at times.Good luck and i repeat theres help available through the health system,you just have to make a lot of noise to get there attention.

[Milts]

I've had a friend with depression, nothing this serious, but a few things seem to help (besides happy pills).

Finding a hobby or activity which they can get really engaged in seems to help, mostly it's the keeping busy I think. Some things which seemed to help were simple, like reading, sewing projects, excercise etc. However the biggest help for this person was not being left alone - whenever they were spending time with their partner or friends, regardless of whether it was a planned group outing or just doing the usual household things together as friends, they seemed to cope much better.

I think as a friend the biggest thing (and often hardest if you're working as well) that you can give them is your time and attention. Stay engaged with them, spend time with them, often just cuddling up on the sofa to watch a movie can help change someone's mood for the time being at least.

Outside of all of this you can obviously help by seeing that they are getting the best professional help they can. Take a good look at http://www.depression.org.nz/ and see what they have to offer, but it sounds like they are getting this already.

If you fear they have set a time limit, give them a goal to work towards, or something to look forward to, at some point in the future. Not so far as to be out of sight, but something to look forward to in the near future can make a big difference to someone's state of mind.

It sounds like you're doing a good job already. It sucks if all you can give is your encouragement, but even that can make a difference. And as 98tls says, don't forget that all you can do is help them - ultimately they have final responsibility.

EDIT: Something which also helped no end was that my friend was able to articulate their needs/worries. Perhaps try to help your friend with this, or talk to others who know them/are helping them with this to try and figure out what their needs, desires, goals and worries are.

[Gone Burger]

I've had a friend with depression, nothing this serious, but a few things seem to help (besides happy pills).

Finding a hobby or activity which they can get really engaged in seems to help, mostly it's the keeping busy I think. Some things which seemed to help were simple, like reading, sewing projects, excercise etc. However the biggest help for this person was not being left alone - whenever they were spending time with their partner or friends, regardless of whether it was a planned group outing or just doing the usual household things together as friends, they seemed to cope much better.

I think as a friend the biggest thing (and often hardest if you're working as well) that you can give them is your time and attention. Stay engaged with them, spend time with them, often just cuddling up on the sofa to watch a movie can help change someone's mood for the time being at least.

Outside of all of this you can obviously help by seeing that they are getting the best professional help they can. Take a good look at http://www.depression.org.nz/ and see what they have to offer, but it sounds like they are getting this already.

If you fear they have set a time limit, give them a goal to work towards, or something to look forward to, at some point in the future. Not so far as to be out of sight, but something to look forward to in the near future can make a big difference to someone's state of mind.

It sounds like you're doing a good job already. It sucks if all you can give is your encouragement, but even that can make a difference. And as 98tls says, don't forget that all you can do is help them - ultimately they have final responsibility.

Thank you for your advice, it is greatly needed and appreciated.

Unfortunatly i can't be there for him as much as I need to be. He lives in auckland and I live down here. i am the only one he confides and and says these things to, and it tears me apart that I can't be there to actually go and see him, help him in person.

Tomorrow i am going to try and get him some different professional help, and make sure that his parents are fully aware of his mind set again. My concern is that he now wont take any calls or messages and left me with the thought he was going to try and harm himself tonight. I hope that my instincts are wrong (unfortunately they haven't been the past 3 times), and that I can find some more help in the morning.

I;m exhausted. If you knew me personally you would that I do not have the energy needed to focus on this right now, and I feel so very very helpless.

Silly bugga - thought he was stronger than this. been so good for months now.

cheers for your help you two - tonight it is helping me greatly with the heavy situation.

[SMOKEU]

One of my homies is in a similar situation, he has a history of long term depression and even the occasional 1X tendencies. It's usually a matter of the person in question either having too many drugs or not enough drugs, but which is which is anyones guess. Giving your friend a shitload of alcohol and a sympathetic ear is usually a quick fix.

[EJK]

Tell him that he means something in this life.
Give him hope (if YOU can).

But I'm sure you've already done and tried that.


Unfortunatly i can't be there for him as much as I need to be. He lives in auckland and I live down here. i am the only one he confides and and says these things to, and it tears me apart that I can't be there to actually go and see him, help him in person.


I'm so sorry to hear this. I once had a friend in need of help. There was nothing I can do but pray.

Like someone above said, looks like you are very concerned and doing a good job already (going the extra mile). I wish you and your friend that everything goes well.

[rainman]

(besides happy pills).

The standard happy pills are not a reliable fix unless the patient is very deeply depressed or believes strongly the pills will help them (kinda means they want to be helped) - SSRIs are not much better than placebos according to some studies. Doesn't mean they never work, just that they aren't the silver bullet some people think they are. Lifestyle changes are usually required to fix depression. The bugger is getting a depressed person to make major lifestyle changes, of course, and anyone who tries is a hero(ine), no matter the outcome.


Giving your friend a shitload of alcohol and a sympathetic ear is usually a quick fix.

This is VERY VERY bad advice. Alcohol and depression/manic depression DO NOT MIX. By all means deploy the sympathetic ear. But skip the booze.

Katiepie, if you can (might be tough from Wellington, though), get him out in the sunshine and fresh air, doing some exercise, making, creating, or growing things, doing things he hasn't done before, keeping busy. Milts' advice is generally good, particularly about trying to set a medium term goal. It's a long road to happiness though, so good luck to both of you.

And remember to look after yourself, too.

[Dogboy900]

All good advice above (except the alcohol thing of course).

All I can say is try to be there for them as much as possible. If you think they are going to harm themselves and you cannot physically reach them, try to get someone who can to visit them.
Some people with depression from what I have seen start cutting everyone out of their lives and the depression deepens. Its easy to ignore the phone, harder to ignore someone coming round.

Hope things work out for you both.

[Quasi]

Hi Katie,

I've PMed you, but you cant do this. If its got this bad, your friend needs to be seen by the mental health unit asap. He or his family should have all their details and they will be in contact with him immediately someone lets them know. They do an amazing job (well the Wairarapa unit does) and will get your friend in the right place to keep him safe and alive. Alert them now as it sounds like hes in a pretty bad place. You are doing the best possible thing you can as a friend by letting the right people know. You know where i am if you need a shoulder or a hug. X

[2wheeldrifter]

Carla's right.... you need to unload too and have someone for your needs as it's not just about him. This thread is a start.

Take care of number 1 first... thats you :)

Hope it doesn't get as bad as you think..

[mashman]

If you fear they have set a time limit, give them a goal to work towards, or something to look forward to, at some point in the future. Not so far as to be out of sight, but something to look forward to in the near future can make a big difference to someone's state of mind.


+1 some friends of mine are going through depression with their daughter... small, obtainable goals bring out her sense of achievement. She does lapse on occassions, but bounces back a lot quicker these days. Good Luck Katie...

[Paul in NZ]

Oh shit.... Seriously - don't take full responsibility for this yourself. Even the pros can only do so much and if the worst happens make sure you aint getting sucked down into it. I'm speaking from experience here! It can be as contagious as the flu if you don't have some personal defences.

The hardest thing seems to be every case is totally different and needs a different response. I find regular exercise and the self discipline that goes with it as good if not better than anything else.

The bit I struggled with when supporting someone else is the unreality of their view of the world...

[Gone Burger]

You all have wonderful advice, and I really appreciate it. A lot of this will help to me deal with the situation better, and try to get him through the other side.

Last night I called his best friends in Ausie and the UK. They all gave him a call and told him there cared about him. It seems that has helped greatly over the night and he hasn't tried anything. I have called his family to alert them of the situation and the frame of mind he is in. They are getting someone from the mental health unit to come around today to visit him.

Alas he he now cut off all communication with me. He doesn't want me to contact him anymore, or get anyone else involved. Its a good thing that I'm not going to pay any attention to that. He needs help again, and is not at the stage of realising that yet. That's why I am here for.

The last three times that he has harmed himself, he has been extremely lucky to come out the other side. He has spent a lot of time in the emergency department. I do believe he will try something again, and if I can just get him help on hand in time, we might be on the right side of things!

Phew - this is exhausting and that was a very long night. But I think I am making good progress. So thank you all for the support and messages, they are worth their weight in gold to me!

My mother also suffers greatly from depression, but thankfully not to this same level. I have a lot to learn how to be supportive, and will do some research tonight so that I can have some helpful knowledge myself.

[duckonin]

[QUOTE=Katiepie;1129802967]How do you help a friend during their darkest times?

By just being that (A friend). come what may you are his friend, he at least has a person with him in his time of need .

[Maha]

I supported myself when in a very very bad place in the late 90's.
I wont go into the details on how I got there suffice to say that, I had lost (well I thought I had) everything I had up until that point.
Even my bank balance was at $0.00.
A cold winters day, it all came and got me while I was at work, I was some 30 minutes from my work base (onsite) I had not a clue on how to start my trade job, it was worst feeling. The previous 10 ten years of my life was there to wreck me. I drove back to my work base crying the whole way. My father worked where I worked, I walked into his office and feel to his knees.

That was the begining of who I am today.
My parents were there for me (thats is paramount)
I worked through every issue, one at a time. (gets results that way)
I didnt want everyone I knew knowing what I was going through (big rule)
I eventually moved away from the rot that had slowly taken over my life. (massive relief)

How to Help a Friend?
Just be there.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Last night I called his best friends in Ausie and the UK. They all gave him a call and told him there cared about him. It seems that has helped greatly over the night and he hasn't tried anything. I have called his family to alert them of the situation and the frame of mind he is in. They are getting someone from the mental health unit to come around today to visit him.


You're a star, and doing everything you can do. He's lucky to have you as a friend.

[motor_mayhem]

KP,

Unfortunately you can only help them as much as they want to be helped. Just don't get dragged down in the process. As others have said, something to focus the person's attention on is good.

"You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink" and "Work is therapy" spring to mind.

Disclaimer: there are more articulate characters present than me ;)

[Grubber]

Hi Katie,

I've PMed you, but you cant do this. If its got this bad, your friend needs to be seen by the mental health unit asap. He or his family should have all their details and they will be in contact with him immediately someone lets them know. They do an amazing job (well the Wairarapa unit does) and will get your friend in the right place to keep him safe and alive. Alert them now as it sounds like hes in a pretty bad place. You are doing the best possible thing you can as a friend by letting the right people know. You know where i am if you need a shoulder or a hug. X

After dealing with someone in this predicament before for some years i would have to say that the above is very good advice.
There is only so much one can do and then it gets a little beyond your capabilities to be honest.
Get him to the professionals and stand by him as he goes. Trust me you won't be able to fix this on your own.
My friend who suffered expressed themselves through anger and it never solved anything. The professionals came along (after some convincing i must say) and this person has lived a relatively unscathed life ever since.

[86GSXR]

Oh man, I really feel for you both. I've been through two suicides and it can be one, if not the single most devastating thing that can happen to both the person involved and to those that are there for them, especially if it's prolonged. Which it normally is.

Obviously it's vital that your friend gets intervention immediately, as you're doing. If he's made three attempts already, then in my experience he's in a extremely dangerous place. Each attempt serves to accustom the person to the reality of being dead, it's like a horrific practise run. Afterwards there may appear to be a peace of kind, but you can never take this for granted. It's as though they have accepted the inevitable and are just storing up the courage for the next attempt.

I intervened dozens of times for a friend. On one occasion she was committed. This bought her three more years but in the end it was not enough. The health services are good and can probably save him, but what is also needed is intensive support from family and friends. My friend lacked this and I couldn't be there all of the time.

Do you know that attempting suicide is grounds for compulsory detention? It may seem harsh but it could be a blessing. It depends on how he reacts to it. At the very least, it will give you some relief knowing he is not alone. If he's young there is a good chance he'll come through this.

I really hope all involved get through this and it's really important for you not to shoulder the burden, you must look after yourself as well. It will be a long and exhausting journey with no guarantee.

Get support for yourself as well as your friend, everyone is in this with you.

[avgas]

I find when I have hit the darkest times in your life, you lose all control - go into autopilot if you will.
Trick is for someone on the outside to keep that autopilot flying straight, while stuff you can in front of you give you goals.
It can be as simple as a coffee every sunday - to talk about something new.
But the autopilot has to be kept running, has to be told what to do in the meantime. Otherwise the crash is the final note.
Sorry for the metaphor stuff in here - but its the only way I could explain what went on with me.

So its a contrast, you have to be firm with the logical side, and loving to the emotional side. As the brain has a conflict, trust me - the only reason why your friend is still alive is due to the logical side.........but the emotional side needs to find a balance too.
best of luck.

[Gone Burger]

After a bit of investigation, it seems the my friend is drinking again, and back on some drugs - and these - of course - are mixing terribly with all his medication. I'm not sure what drugs he is taking, but assume its what he use to use in the past, Ecstasy, speed. This is a recipe for disaster I know, and as a result has become aggressive.

I had a long chat with his father this morning, who does not know me very well - only via phone contact. I have been friends with him for about 12 years, and unfortunately he has always kept his personal life very separate from his home life. I didn't actually realise what a toll this is taking on his family. His father has admitted that he is out of control, and its tearing their marriage apart, as they both approach things differently. They are constantly on the receiving end of abuses from their son, and they feel that they can't actually handle him, and his actions. This is where the professional help steps in, and assists them.

He is 30 and working in an industry (like myself) that is a toxic environment to be in and around on a daily basis. So many factors are working in here, and contributing to this situation.

I feel a little relieved today, knowing that help is on stand by for him, and that everyone that needs to know is up to date, and all in the same situation. As many of you have said, if he doesn't want to accept help, sometimes there is little you can do until they can see things a little differently. He really is a funny creature - and I can see why not many people "get" him - or understand him. Hence why he leans on me so much for support I imagine.

[CookMySock]

I spent a few years marvelling at how I got through the days. Some people you can help directly, and many others you should not try to, rather leave it for someone with a qualification lest you fuck it up irretrievably.

I certainly would not be attempting any "good ideas" with the individual you refer to. Put him in the hands of the professionals, and just look after yourself. Even once he's out of professional care, I'd be pretty careful about what I said or did.

Many times you just have to let things go and make the most of your own life. You don't owe your entire self to people - you are entitled to your own happy and fulfilling existence.

You can't fix the world.


Steve

[Eyegasm]

I spent a few years marvelling at how I got through the days.

Steve

With all your brilliant advice, I am still marvelling at how you are still here. Lady luck eh?

[Milts]

With all your brilliant advice, I am still marvelling at how you are still here. Lady luck eh?

Not so sure this is the time/place.

Good to hear that 1) he made it to today ok and 2) you're staying in contact with the family. It must be hugely difficult trying to help while being so far away. I suspect that what you have been doing up until now (contacting family, ensuring professional help, staying in contact) is probably about all you can do at the moment and is certainly more than some would. You can only hope it turns out well.

[duckonin]

With all your brilliant advice, I am still marvelling at how you are still here. Lady luck eh?

Back up a bit matey, the man admitted to having had a hard time for a few years, of the few I have know who have had the misfortune of varying depths of depression not one of those would wish it on any other in this world that I am sure..

[Genie]

Oh sweet Katie....not a nice place to be in at all. I have no helpful advice. This is one tricky situation and all i think all you can do is be the friend you are.

We are all responsible for our own actions. Some can accept this, some don't. Remember you are not responsible for the choices he makes.

I wish I could say some magical words that makes it all better...I can't but I can listen and hold your hand, should the need arise.

[Gone Burger]

It has been a rather rough day indeed.

My friend is extremely unstable, and I have managed to find out that it is P that he is taking, on top of his medication. This would explain all of the aggression he has been showing towards me, and his family.

After not hearing from him for 24 hours, not knowing if he had tried to harm himself etc.. I sent him a text just to say that I was thinking of him. For the next hour he sent extremely abusive, and very hurtful messages to me and has asked me to never contact him again. I keep telling myself, and know this is only because he is so unwell, and on this awful drug, and nothing to do with me or my actions. But after all that I have seen him through (and the only friend who has) I can't help but hurt.

Only one other person has ever said that to me in my life, "I never want to hear from or see you again", and I made sure it happened. That was a similar situation with a friend who was being physically abused by her partner and I called the police. To this day, I have not seen her again. She meant every word of it, and this seems to be a case of dejavou for me.

So it seems that there really is nothing more I can do for him, but wish him luck, and hope that he can do this alone. He has a hell of a long road to recovery ahead of him, and a very unpleasant one at that. To not be able to drive around there and sort it all out in person is very tricky, with the only contact I have with him being the phone, or facebook. I can only hope that his family will keep me updated on his progress.

Best of luck buddy, but I just can't be your main support anymore. I need that strength for myself.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Good on you. No need to take that kind of abuse no matter how low he is.

[2wheeldrifter]

You have done what you can, the rest is up to him. You do have your life to lead as well and you must also take into account what toll this is taking on your own health.
You can hold your head high that you gave it your all to help him. :)

I think you have done the right thing... time for you to step back and let it be.

[Murray]

You are a wonderful person and anyone should be grateful to be able to call you a friend.

I wish you well and he is the one who will be all the worse off for breaking ties with you!!

All on KB respect you for what you have done and tried to do - take pride in that and keep positive

[rachprice]

Oh you poor wee thing!!!
That is so awful......
I hope you feel better soon

Like everyone says you have done wonderfully and are an amazing friend and never think otherwise!

[Hans]

You are a wonderful person and anyone should be grateful to be able to call you a friend.

I wish you well and he is the one who will be all the worse off for breaking ties with you!!

All on KB respect you for what you have done and tried to do - take pride in that and keep positive

Hear hear. You have done all you could have.

[Teflon]

Sounds like he's on the wrong medication and his testosterone levels are low

3 month cycle of Sustanon, while training heavy deadlifts, squats and bench.. pct, Tamoxifen and Creatine, and light training for a few weeks


make sure he doesn't eat and train like a bitch..

This will fix him

[ajturbo]

take him for a ride on the back of your bike......if that wont do it.. nothing willl

[Toaster]

Gie him a pair of NIKE shoes.

[rachprice]

Tamoxifen



Ahhhhh what the fuck? A breast cancer treatment???

Whoa just googled it....man that is messed up...

[rustic101]

How do you help a friend during their darkest times?

I have been helping a good friend for a while now try to get through a very dark time in his life. Just when I thought we were making progress, good progress, he has slipped back into an awful place.

He sufferers from depression. He is being treated and I thought he was finally on the right medication. But he in now suicidal again, and I fear that this time he may be successful.

His family know, I keep in close contact with his mother. He is getting plenty of support through hospitals, has been through psych wards and has plenty of help on hand. But he doesn't think he can get better.

Has anyone supported someone through this situation before? If so, how did you help?

I have a lot going on myself and don't feel strong enough to give him the help that he needs, but if something happened to him, it would be on my shoulders for the rest of my life.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm afraid he has given himself a time limit, and a very short one at that.

I've had (have) been diagnosed with PTSD. A few years after this I was also subsequently diagnosed as suffering from depression. There is still the odd day or two in a year where I just am not able to engage with anything or anyone.

Katie, everyone is different and I admire and respect your efforts.

After a few attempts at offing myself, oddly enough by putting myself in dangerous situations while working and not working, I snapped out of it. What did it for me was not God, Drugs or Woman, but rather hitting absolute rock bottom. Out of that came a realisation that the only person that could affect any change was myself.

I threw away all of the anti depressants, sleeping tables - stopped seeing the councillor and psychologist and started to face up to my fears by myself. The next best thing I did was started going to the gym not to build an Greek Anodise body, but rather to strengthen the body which simultaneously strengthens the mind and sole. I also turned to poetry and music one to express myself the other to socially a-line and normalise my life with others. A sprinkle of Yoga also helps too.

All of this provided me with clarity.

Life is about evolving. Katie, there is a point that you need to step back and let what ever happens happens. There is no way you need or should feel responsible for anything that may happen to your friend. You can only do so much chicky and need to look after yourself too. I wish you luck.

[rustic101]

It has been a rather rough day indeed.

Best of luck buddy, but I just can't be your main support anymore. I need that strength for myself.

Just read this and the other posts and KP you have summed up very well.

He needs to be Sectioned and assessed by the CATT. Walk away no matter how hard it is but be proud of what you did.

[Gone Burger]

Update...

Was at home last night, having been for a beautiful long walk in the valley. Was feeling good - refreshed, happy, relaxed. I live in the country with no cell phone reception, only one bar if you are lucky to receive a message.

I checked my cell phone, and saw that I had missed a call from a VERY old friend who I haven't spoken to in years in Auckland. As soon as I saw her name, I was not feeling so good anymore. I knew something was wrong, very wrong. I could not listen to the voice message, but I knew exactly what it was going to say.

She was a mutual friend of me and Dominic, my friend that I have been talking about. Have just checked the message... she has received a very disturbing message from him, and wondered if I had heard anything? Nope - he has not been in contact with me. He did try for a while, but he was rude, and crass, and continued to be hurtful so I stopped with all contact, as I said I would.

I have just seen on facebook some very disturbing photos and messages from him. Of course, he is back in hospital, with suicide attempt number 8. And I wish I had not seen these photos. I feel sick to my stomach. They were very graphic, and he photographed each step of the way.

Is this his way of trying to get to me? I have not been there for him lately, and he is more desperate than ever - his internet posts make that very clear. I feel upset, confused, worried, angry... all the usual emotions I would expect to feel in this situation.

I have not made contact, but I feel like I should. Would just appreciate to hear if you think I should or not. I will not get too involved like I have in the past, if I do contact him. But does he need me right now? He is in a bad way again, but as I said, this is attempt number 8. But as I do not live up there, I have never actually seen the harm he has done to himself - this is the part I am not coping with. These photos have made me feel very unwell. :sick:

Oh dear - he has a lot further to go than I ever thought

[Quasi]

hey chick - i at home if you want to ride and chat?

[Gone Burger]

hey chick - i at home if you want to ride and chat?

Im all good hun - just feeling sick. How bout a drink on Sunday avo (or 10! lol)? xx

[SMOKEU]

but as I said, this is attempt number 8

Most of these 'suicide attempts' don't actually involve people trying to REALLY kill themself. It's just a sad case of a very depressed person crying out for help/attention.

If someone really wants to kill themself, then they will.

[Gone Burger]

Most of these 'suicide attempts' don't actually involve people trying to REALLY kill themself. It's just a sad case of a very depressed person crying out for help/attention.

If someone really wants to kill themself, then they will.

I totally agree - which I why I feel I should still stay away from all of this. I know its his cry for help - despite what he says.. How can it not be?

[SMOKEU]

I totally agree - which I why I feel I should still stay away from all of this. I know its his cry for help - despite what he says.. How can it not be?

I hear about 1X jobs all the time on my scanner (suicide attempts), and 99% of the time it involves someone swallowing a whole lot of pills and then calling 111, or someone txting their mate saying they have a knife and they're going to 'end it all', or someone locking themself in the bathroom at home and telling their flatmate they're going to shoot themself.

The other 1% of the time it's too late; the person is already dead.

[rachprice]

Im all good hun - just feeling sick. How bout a drink on Sunday avo (or 10! lol)? xx

Oh ill join you, peter is going to be playing golf so ill be all lonely!

[duckonin]

Most of these 'suicide attempts' don't actually involve people trying to REALLY kill themself. It's just a sad case of a very depressed person crying out for help/attention.

If someone really wants to kill themself, then they will.

Eventuality, they get to do it one last time.....

[Quasi]

Im all good hun - just feeling sick. How bout a drink on Sunday avo (or 10! lol)? xx

its a date hun. Please do not let this get on top of you. You can not change the way he thinks, feels or acts. It has to come from him to either move away from the black hole or bury himself in it. Its a bloody hard struggle i know, and its all to easy for innocent people to get dragged down as well.
Big mother farker hugs coming your way:grouphug::grouphug: XX The Q

[Crasherfromwayback]

Big mother farker hugs

Please describe?

[Paul in NZ]

I totally agree - which I why I feel I should still stay away from all of this. I know its his cry for help - despite what he says.. How can it not be?

Cry for help or a cry for attention???? I suspect this person is not going to stop until you are harmed or dead. You really need to think about this, I'm not sure you can help this person but you must protect yourself....

[Paul in NZ]

Please describe?

Well - if you introduce me to your mother I'll see what I can do but Doug might be availiable for a hug if you need one sooner...