Prolight/Superlight

[steveyb]

Can anyone tell me (as a first step) if the Suzuki GSXF250 is elegible for the MNZ 250 class?

Cheers

Steve

[quickbuck]

Can anyone tell me (as a first step) if the Suzuki GSXF250 is elegible for the MNZ 250 class?

Cheers

Steve
Are you meaning the 2003-4 Invader Steve?

I had though of that, if you are..... and would like to know the answer too.... (I think they are, but what I think, and the actual rules can be a ways apart).

[Billy]

Can anyone tell me (as a first step) if the Suzuki GSXF250 is elegible for the MNZ 250 class?

Cheers

Steve

Nope,Apparently not,As far as I could gather there are only the Hyosung,Kawasaki and the very latest VTR that are homologated,
If you cant find the relevant information on the MNZ website,Contact the chairman of thr roadrace commission

[quallman1234]

GSXF250 Across = IL4 = Not Eligible
GSX250 = Twin and you can pick up newer ones therefore within the rules. However are heavy and have horrible brakes.

E.g. GSX250 http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-289086705.htm

[Str8 Jacket]

Nope,Apparently not,As far as I could gather there are only the Hyosung,Kawasaki and the very latest VTR that are homologated,
If you cant find the relevant information on the MNZ website,Contact the chairman of thr roadrace commission

So could the GSX run in minilites? I know they wouldn't be competitive but I am on the hunt to replace the RG with a CHEAP and RELIABLE 250 to race next year/ rest of this year and have been thinking about buying an old or written off 250 like the GSX , GPX or VT etc.....

[vindy500]

So could the GSX run in minilites? I know they wouldn't be competitive but I am on the hunt to replace the RG with a CHEAP and RELIABLE 250 to race next year/ rest of this year and have been thinking about buying an old or written off 250 like the GSX or VT etc.....

can u run the old gpx's?

[Str8 Jacket]

can u run the old gpx's?

Ha, actually it was the GPX I was meaning, I will edit that post!

[steveyb]

Yeah, the Across is an inline 4 (had not noticed that earlier, hence the good performance figures) so not elegible for the proposed Production Lite/Superlite or whatever it will be class.
The Across is elegible for VMCC Minilite class but probably not competitive against the more sporting oriented models in that class (e.g. CBR250).
I had understood that the Kawasaki and the Hyosung had been submitted for homologation but was unaware that the Honda VTR had also been submitted.
I had thought that maybe the GSX250 would be an option but Kylie (Qualman) suggests maybe they are not so flash.
I think that they are also no longer a current Suzuki model, so unlikely to be submitted for homologation, but if Suzuki have a model it would be good if they did submit it.
The GPX250 makes a great bike for club racing. It has been shown already to be a worthy steed by, I think, Paddy Doohan (or a mate of his anyway). A $500 bike that went like stink, but I did hear that it blew up from lack of maintenance or similar. But it won't be elegible for the proposed NZSBK class.

[vindy500]

Ha, actually it was the GPX I was meaning, I will edit that post!

well my old (88) gpx had more grunt than my gt250r, so I would think they would be competitive...

[Str8 Jacket]

well my old (88) gpx had more grunt than my gt250r, so I would think they would be competitive...

ANY bike is competitive with the right rider....!!! It's all in the head!

[rustys]

Get into the "mini lights" Helen , Sue will have hers up and running next meeting, going up for a test day on the friday. You girls could have a lot of fun and it looks like the number of bikes in that class is growing to, and about time. Good luck in finding one.

[Str8 Jacket]

Get into the "mini lights" Helen , Sue will have hers up and running next meeting, going up for a test day on the friday. You girls could have a lot of fun and it looks like the number of bikes in that class is growing to, and about time. Good luck in finding one.

Yeah, I just need to give my RG one more chance to work before I sell it. I would rather sell the RG in working condition so I can afford a 250 sooner! I am sitting out until Sept in the hope that I can get the last 2 rounds in on the RG before flicking it for a 250... Otherwise next winter series on a 250 is a definate! Just not sure wether it'll be a twin or an inline 4, whatever the budget can stretch too. Am seriously thinking of the Sale's VT if its still around when I have the $$.....

[quickbuck]

Yeah, the Across is an inline 4 (had not noticed that earlier, hence the good performance figures) so not elegible for the proposed Production Lite/Superlite or whatever it will be class.
The Across is elegible for VMCC Minilite class but probably not competitive against the more sporting oriented models in that class (e.g. CBR250).
I had understood that the Kawasaki and the Hyosung had been submitted for homologation but was unaware that the Honda VTR had also been submitted.
I had thought that maybe the GSX250 would be an option but Kylie (Qualman) suggests maybe they are not so flash.
I think that they are also no longer a current Suzuki model, so unlikely to be submitted for homologation, but if Suzuki have a model it would be good if they did submit it.
The GPX250 makes a great bike for club racing. It has been shown already to be a worthy steed by, I think, Paddy Doohan (or a mate of his anyway). A $500 bike that went like stink, but I did hear that it blew up from lack of maintenance or similar. But it won't be elegible for the proposed NZSBK class.

Ahh, with you now.... GSX250X is the across' deignation isn't it?
Splitting hairs, or could be a different market.... OR, I could be plain wrong.

Anyhow, yes, the GSX250 Invader is a heavy little beast....
Apparently the story goes, they used to be light, but the Merkins kept crashing them, so they added weight to them to make them a porky 185kg!

Trouble is they are single front disc, (well like the across actually), and have NO adjustment on the suspension.... Except for lots of work on the internals.. if one can be bothered!
Not a current model anymore as far as I know....
Were good for what they were designed for... and the track wasn't it!!!

What do I care?
Well, I intend to boost the field with a Ninja.....

[cowpoos]

Yeah, the Across is an inline 4 (had not noticed that earlier, hence the good performance figures) so not elegible for the proposed Production Lite/Superlite or whatever it will be class.
The Across is elegible for VMCC Minilite class but probably not competitive against the more sporting oriented models in that class (e.g. CBR250).
I had understood that the Kawasaki and the Hyosung had been submitted for homologation but was unaware that the Honda VTR had also been submitted.
I had thought that maybe the GSX250 would be an option but Kylie (Qualman) suggests maybe they are not so flash.
I think that they are also no longer a current Suzuki model, so unlikely to be submitted for homologation, but if Suzuki have a model it would be good if they did submit it.
The GPX250 makes a great bike for club racing. It has been shown already to be a worthy steed by, I think, Paddy Doohan (or a mate of his anyway). A $500 bike that went like stink, but I did hear that it blew up from lack of maintenance or similar. But it won't be elegible for the proposed NZSBK class.

I'd be on the hunt for a Suzuki NZ250 for that class. I had one when I was 15....was faster than my mates VTR250s and VT250 spada's in a straight line. and handles pretty dam good too!

[quallman1234]

This will be faster than the GT's id imagine if they are using a similar engine to the older ones.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-278004979.htm

[quickbuck]

This will be faster than the GT's id imagine if they are using a similar engine to the older ones.

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Sports/auction-278004979.htm

Fuel injected too/ though....
That could well be an issue?

[vindy500]

the new hyosungs are injected

[steveyb]

Yep, injection is not the issue, as long as the model is submitted by the distributor for homologation.
Just need to be clear what racing you are talking about at any one time.
For the proposed NZSBK Superlite class the bikes need to be homologated and so far the Kawasaki and the Hyosung 2010 models are definites and Billy suggests that the Honda might have been also.
The Suzuki GSX250 has been discontinued by Suzuki NZ.

For club racing the classes are defined by the respective clubs, such as VMCC having 250cc 4 cyl bikes included.
Those bikes will not be eligible for the NZSBK class, so riders looking at getting new bikes (e.g. Hellsbells) should give that a thought. It really is the go to have a ride at the nationals in your respective class, so the 4 cyl 250s are relegated to VMCC only it seems (I don't know about AMCC, MCI, PMCC).

[quickbuck]

Yep, injection is not the issue, as long as the model is submitted by the distributor for homologation.


Yes, that is what I was meaning....
I know Kawasaki NZ haven't brought in the injected Ninja, as they would have to resubmit that, and it would mean the older ones would become obsolete over night... or some such thing...
Or, that is the way I understood it... Could be wrong (often am).

Good point re Nationals.
Never thought of that.
Swinging spanners next year anyway.... but 2012, who knows ;)

[Robert Taylor]

The draft rules for this class state that the suspension must remain stock but you are allowed to change the fluids. BUT you must also run the stock springs.
I have no problem with the dampers remaining standard but how stupid is it to prohibit spring changes to allow for the fact you may be a very very light rider or a very very heavy rider...
Some common sense should prevail

[puddytat]

Yeah really Robert, seems like a stupid rule to me.....might be a problem to afford some mods for some folk in other classes, but crikey springs are very reasonably priced & I think would stop alot of crashing...
A quick question....will raising my fluid levels stop me front end from bottoming out?

[quickbuck]

The draft rules for this class state that the suspension must remain stock but you are allowed to change the fluids. BUT you must also run the stock springs.
I have no problem with the dampers remaining standard but how stupid is it to prohibit spring changes to allow for the fact you may be a very very light rider or a very very heavy rider...
Some common sense should prevail

Yes, good point.
Ben and I will be running bikes very similer..... as he is 60kg dripping wet, and I am 93 naked....
Same springs... Well.... YUP!

[Robert Taylor]

Yeah really Robert, seems like a stupid rule to me.....might be a problem to afford some mods for some folk in other classes, but crikey springs are very reasonably priced & I think would stop alot of crashing...
A quick question....will raising my fluid levels stop me front end from bottoming out?

Yes it will but there should not be an over-reliance on ''secondary trapped air spring compression ratio'' ( which is what it is ) A higher ramp up of air pressure in the latter stages of stroke occurs if you raise the oil level but of course you are ''catching'' the end event. The horse always requires a lot more force to stop if it has already bolted from the stable door. If you catch it before it bolts from the stable door then there is less effort required to ''stop it later on''
More appropriate spring rates ( usually stronger ) with less preload is the ''correct'' answer, allied with a lower oil level.

Interestingly with the new NIX30 damping system in the Ohlins cartridges we run in the Superbikes we are typically running spring rates 2 steps down and oil levels 20-40 mm lower than in the previoius system, the damping control is that much more effective and instantaneous. It just shows how over reliant the more basic systems are on spring rate choice and oil levels.

[cowpoos]

The draft rules for this class state that the suspension must remain stock but you are allowed to change the fluids. BUT you must also run the stock springs.
I have no problem with the dampers remaining standard but how stupid is it to prohibit spring changes to allow for the fact you may be a very very light rider or a very very heavy rider...
Some common sense should prevail

IMHO....I'd rather run soft springs and firm dampers than the other way around...I think it the better of the opposite evil...but still not Ideal.
I also think it would never be policed!!

[Billy]

The draft rules for this class state that the suspension must remain stock but you are allowed to change the fluids. BUT you must also run the stock springs.
I have no problem with the dampers remaining standard but how stupid is it to prohibit spring changes to allow for the fact you may be a very very light rider or a very very heavy rider...
Some common sense should prevail

This would probably be the one time I think you could be wrong Robert,I have 5 Hyosung 250s in the shed Im turning into Prolite/Superlite bikes,2 of which have bent frames but have only had reasonable lowsides,When I spoke to John at NZ frame and wheel re straightening them he told me the frames are like butter.I would suspct if the suspension was stiffened then other parts of the chassis maybe forced too deal with more stress than its capable of handling,Have a good look at the steering head area of 1 and you may agree

[SWERVE]

An Asian manufacturer with "dodgy" frame material strength........................ heavens not!!!!!!!!!! The good ol RG might be a heavy framed little beast.........but they crash well.
If a suspension componant change (spring) were allowed then RG,s should have the opportunity too........... oh and dont forget letting the wee bikes have some decent rubber........................... just a comment...dont wanna start a war!

[Robert Taylor]

This would probably be the one time I think you could be wrong Robert,I have 5 Hyosung 250s in the shed Im turning into Prolite/Superlite bikes,2 of which have bent frames but have only had reasonable lowsides,When I spoke to John at NZ frame and wheel re straightening them he told me the frames are like butter.I would suspct if the suspension was stiffened then other parts of the chassis maybe forced too deal with more stress than its capable of handling,Have a good look at the steering head area of 1 and you may agree

Suffice to say I think my less than complimentary opinions on mainland Asian products are well documented and I would also dare to say well founded. I think we lived in better times when they made nothing more challenging than rice and firecrackers.
That is my Andy Haden moment for the day and Im not apologising for it ( nor should Andy )
Back on the core subject of suspension why did these bikes crash in the first place? Was it in part due to the woefully bad commuter bike suspension unsuitable for racetrack use?

[Billy]

Suffice to say I think my less than complimentary opinions on mainland Asian products are well documented and I would also dare to say well founded. I think we lived in better times when they made nothing more challenging than rice and firecrackers.
That is my Andy Haden moment for the day and Im not apologising for it ( nor should Andy )
Back on the core subject of suspension why did these bikes crash in the first place? Was it in part due to the woefully bad commuter bike suspension unsuitable for racetrack use?

Absolutely,That and the woefully bad tyres supplied as standard,However the point is,You cant make a silk purse out of a sours ear and as an entry level class I dont believe we need to make it too complicated,

As far as Andy goes and indeed Robin Brooke,I fully agree no apology is necessary,To sum up,2 so called Ladies go out with the intentionof hooking up with an All Black,Allow him to buy them alcohol all night,Then after he pays for a cab back to their place,They proceed to drive to their local gang headquarters to buy drugs whilst heavily intoxicated and after consuming the drugs they are so comatose they let him have sex they didnt want too have ,But have the presence of mind to steal his credit card so they have proof he was there,Then after accepting a confidentiality payment they go to the media 12 years later and can remember everything vividly.

Anybody see a Tui ad ?????

[Racey Rider]

Stop trying to sound like it's happened to You in the past Billy!



or were you the comatosed one? :blink:

[Robert Taylor]

Absolutely,That and the woefully bad tyres supplied as standard,However the point is,You cant make a silk purse out of a sours ear and as an entry level class I dont believe we need to make it too complicated,

As far as Andy goes and indeed Robin Brooke,I fully agree no apology is necessary,To sum up,2 so called Ladies go out with the intentionof hooking up with an All Black,Allow him to buy them alcohol all night,Then after he pays for a cab back to their place,They proceed to drive to their local gang headquarters to buy drugs whilst heavily intoxicated and after consuming the drugs they are so comatose they let him have sex they didnt want too have ,But have the presence of mind to steal his credit card so they have proof he was there,Then after accepting a confidentiality payment they go to the media 12 years later and can remember everything vividly.

Anybody see a Tui ad ?????

Well Rob Muldoon would be proud of Andy Haden, real men saying it as it is and taking no prisoners. Watching Rob ( on 50 years of NZ television ) mauling a presenter bought back fond memories!

Back on subject I agree with keeping that class simple but I disagree with lightweight and heavyweight riders being effectively penalised. Spring changes are relatively straightforward and cost effective in more ways than one..

[koba]

An Asian manufacturer with "dodgy" frame material strength........................ heavens not!!!!!!!!!! The good ol RG might be a heavy framed little beast.........but they crash well.
If a suspension componant change (spring) were allowed then RG,s should have the opportunity too........... oh and dont forget letting the wee bikes have some decent rubber........................... just a comment...dont wanna start a war!

Agreed on the RGs crashing well!

As for spring changes,

They do:
22.12.8 Forks
The inner an outer front stanchion must remain standard.
Only springing an oil may be changed.

Also TT900s and BT39ss are both plenty adequate.

[SWERVE]

Yes i know the ruling for forks.......... think the rear is more of a problem generally (some high milage rear springs are like pogo sticks on rg,s) TT900s/BT39s are good rubber but at lap record pace in grippy /summer conditions they only last one meeting(national weekend) if you want consistancy. ......... and they dont give much(if any) warning when they are buggered. And dont rely on TT900.s for much longer.......................

[quickbuck]

Well done to Ben Oxham on the Ninja.
Showed the Hyosungs how it is done at VMCC round 3.

Where was Woodyracer?