Justice?! Schapelle Corby

[Sutage]

"Is there justice in Indonesia?" the judges asked in their 80-page, two-hour summation and decision. "Yes there is."

Schapelle Corby gets 20 years in a Bali jail for importing 4kg of marijuana, I dont reckon she did it, whata bout you guys?

4kg has a street value in NZ of about 80000 bucks, how stupid would you be to put a 4kg block of weed in your boogie board bag? Theres no way you can be that stupid.

They cant even prove she did it, no finger prints on the bag.

The other thing that gets my is why would you bring drugs into Bali? People get the drugs out of Bali.. i could understand taking like an ounce (28?) grams for personal use while on holiday, but 4kg is hardly personal use.

What do you guys think? Guilty? Not Guilty? Punishement too harsh/lenient? Should she be able to do her sentance in Australia?

20 years in a fucking bali jail cell is hardly better then death, you guys seen Midnight Express? Christ

[avgas]

I think none of the above, she's is just plain stupid either way. Sorry but i feel really subtle about this. Guilty - really dumb as we all know the penalties, Not Guity - :weird: why didint she secure her luggage going to bali????

[Kickaha]

4kg has a street value in NZ of about 80000 bucks, how stupid would you be to put a 4kg block of weed in your boogie board bag? Theres no way you can be that stupid.


Obviously you can be that stupid, 4kg in a boogie board bag would make a noticeable difference to the weight of it

If she wasn't young pretty and female no one would really give a toss

[jazbug5]

20 years is a long stretch for the crime of stupidity.
In certain countries you get 4 years in the top job...

[Sutage]

As Jazbug5 said.. 20 years for forgetting to padlock your bag? You shouldnt really have to, just because Bali is a cheap fucking nothing tourist country full of pigs, a maybe innocent women gets her life ruined, those countries piss me off
at the end of the day its only marijuana, not heroin like those other dudes smuggled in, those guys deserve the death penalty
and it isnt cuz shes "young female and pretty" its because shes getting a ridiclous sentance because three cocksucking pig judges wanna make an example, after all australia did to help with asia's tsunami which didnt really effcet us, they should be lenient, give her a warning/fine/realistic jail sentance
at the end of the day there is no concrete proof it was hers, therefore should be no sentance, especially 20 years in some shit cell

[Kickaha]

Sorry I didn't realise you had all the evidence that was available to the courts in Indonesia to work out she was innocent


Those countries that piss you off have there own laws that others should learn to respect so they dont find them selves in these situations

[justsomeguy]

If she wasn't young pretty and female no one would really give a toss

No someone would have given a toss seems like she's got a family - just not the media.

Pretty, young, white, female, tears, home country part of the coalition againt the axis of evil, blah, blah..........makes good prime time news.

Who's got the movie rights???????

And comeon - how much does a boogie board weigh??? It was not a tightly packed suitcase full of stuff - it was a boogie board bag - if you don't notice a 4kg weight increase and that too when travelling to a country like Indonesia/Singapore/Middle East where they are seriously serious about drugs......:weird:

[justsomeguy]

Those countries that piss you off have there own laws that others should learn to respect so they dont find them selves in these situations

I agree completely - and if she found that something was wrong she should have gone straight to the nearest cop/custom officer and surrendered the stuff. Mate when there's a possible death penalty involved you don't mess around.

And the reason she could not have been let off easily is that the case was world wide news so the judges would be setting a rather important legal precedent here.

[jazbug5]

Wasn't the defence based upon the idea that it could have been put in by the baggage handlers or someone after she had checked her bags in? If she was arrested on the other side after the flight, well- come on. Ever felt totally sh*gged after preparing for a holiday then flying there, then stressing about getting to where you're staying...?

However, I do have to agree that the attention she is getting is all about her being young, pretty and female. There are a lot of people in foreign jails around the world who no-one gives a rat's about, because they don't make for good TV.

I have to disagree with the implication that giving aid to a country should somehow give you rights over their justice system. There's been far too much of that nonsense over the years, and if they or any of the others in the so-called 'axis' want to discourage terrorism, they should be very bloody careful about throwing their weight around...

[justsomeguy]

I have to disagree with the implication that giving aid to a country should somehow give you rights over their justice system. There's been far too much of that nonsense over the years, and if they or any of the others in the so-called 'axis' want to discourage terrorism, they should be very bloody careful about throwing their weight around...

Actually it happens more than you think. There was a program by BBC called "The New Gods" or something similar where they explained how a company - lets call them Microloft approaches a country and says please change this bill/tarrif/law or we wont do further business in your country......

Bit different to our poor little girl - but such stuff happens a lot of the time - right or wrong gets sorted out in some other life......

[Big Dave]

Sorry I didn't realise you had all the evidence that was available to the courts in Indonesia to work out she was innocent


Those countries that piss you off have there own laws that others should learn to respect so they dont find them selves in these situations


And you are just as sure that the joke of a legal system that is indonesia - rated one of the most corrupt systems in the world - proves her guilt?!?!

For me - and I suspect many others - it's easy - my most recent visit to indonesia was my last.

And the second statement is even more ludicrous if she didn't do it.

[crashe]

OK I wont comment on whether she is guilty or not.

What I want to comment on is about the boggie board bag...

My now ex sort-of-son-in-law... went to Bali a couple of years ago to 'Body surf" and in his 'body surf board bag' was 2 boards and heaps of towels, fins and clothing etc.. so some people will stuff them with all sorts to keep there main suitcase of 20kg down. It also helps to protect the boards when they get shoved in the cargo area. As the airport handlers just chuck these things around, and the boards can be worth a fortune.

Just to give you an idea about these surf guys and gals and what they do to protect their boards. Not everyone would do that but some of them do that.

So the weight can be a lot heavier than what you would think it would be.

[justsomeguy]

Yeah it is all pretty strange... but with the media attention, etc - they have quite a decent fundraising drive - so they should be able to hire some decent lawyers......

[John]

This entire thing is such a media storm - hell they had it on all afternoon on prime, and yet we don’t show as much concern to the slaves and those dieing of curable disease’s - if you want justice open your eyes to the wider picture I'm afraid - the world is a sick place

[jazbug5]

Actually it happens more than you think. .

No, it doesn't. I'm a conspiracy theorist from way back. Don't get me STARTED on the world bank... anyway, 'nuff o' that.

[mangell6]

Good to see that at least one country is consistent in applying sentences. We have different values and therefore laws, the media is about sensationalism and selling advertising.

[WINJA]

FUCK YEAH SHES A HOTTY , THAT MAKES IT EVEN WORSE

[Skyryder]

The difference between Indonesian law and our law is that in Indonesia you have to proove that you are innocent whereas here the prosecution has to proove that you are guilty. Yes she is young pretty and and photogenic and the media know a story when they see one. However that does not make her less tragic.

It will be interesting to see how Howard deals with this.

As for the the other Aussies.............they are dead men.


Skyryder


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

FUCK YEAH SHES A HOTTY , THAT MAKES IT EVEN WORSE

Drooling again Winj. :tugger:


Skyryder

[James Deuce]

I have very little sympathy for Miss Corby.

The simple response to the situation, and one that would make Indonesia pay dearly (if that's your thing) would be to completely stop going there as a tourist.

On the flip side as Mangell has already mentioned, It gives me the screaming heebee jeebies to think that sane, sensible people in "western" countries, with a judicial system that at least pays lip service to personal freedom, can think that they can apply their values and expected legal and sentencing outcome in another country. That is called Imperial hubris folks. How long before you all pack the shottie and head to Indonesia to show the "natives" how it's "supposed" to work?

4kg of green packaged the way it was, is just about the same shape and size as a boogie board for goodness sake.

Either don't go there or padlock or cable tie all your zip tabs together.

[justsomeguy]

or padlock or cable tie all your zip tabs together.

Don't they teach you that in Kindergarten....... hmmm .... I guess not.......

[WINJA]

The guy who bankrolled her "Defence".

Everyone thought he was mr nice guy.. but it was revealed he bankrolled her defence in exchange for book and movie rights.There are some smart people in Aussie.
And i thought all Aussies were convicts anyway?
AND IF SHE WAS FREED I BET SHED GIVE HIM A SHAG , SHE LOOKS LIKE A GOOD ROOT

[Big Dave]

The guy who bankrolled her "Defence".

Everyone thought he was mr nice guy.. but it was revealed he bankrolled her defence in exchange for book and movie rights.There are some smart people in Aussie.
And i thought all Aussies were convicts anyway?


Oscar Kightley called out 'Big Dave - I went to Aussie for the weekend eh bro'
'Did you Oscar, would have been good'
'yeah, and did you know for us, on the entry paperwork it has a space for 'Criminal Record'
'Really?'
"Yeah - so i wrote 'Didn't know you still needed one'."


She deserves sympathy Jim - if she is that stupid or is innocent - either way, the punishment does not fit the crime - under any circumstances.

[inlinefour]

If your going into another country then you have to obey their laws. She was dumb for not having locked bags. They tell me that you can get your bags security wrapped by flight companies for a few bling. For piece of mind, I'd suggest everyone use that service. :yes:

[speedpro]

If your going into another country then you have to obey their laws. She was dumb for not having locked bags. They tell me that you can get your bags security wrapped by flight companies for a few bling. For piece of mind, I'd suggest everyone use that service. :yes:

Soooooo easy to be wise after the event.

Sometimes I've locked my bags when traveling but NOT to stop some b'stard putting something in but rather the opposite.

Did Ms Corby actually collect her bag and present it or was the bag singled out and the owner apprehended? Just wondering if she had an opportunity to collect the bag and discover the dope?

Does anyone know of any way of finding out the "supposed" sequence of events.

Irrespective of other countries justice ( :rofl: ) sytems most people expect to see a fair verdict. Personally I didn't see that in this case based on my assumption that you would have to be exceedingly stupid to take 'expensive' drugs to a country where you can buy them 'cheap' and of course there is that death penalty thing.

I'd like to know more of what went on with her bag.

[jaybee180]

Rather than looking at the justice systems of other countries (which are free to implement their laws as they see fit!) why don't we look at our own and why aren't we asking how is it that someone who has blatantly killed another man, and hacked two women's hands off, only receives 20 years!!!!

Bet Corby wishes she had bought that into NZ - she'd get a slap on the wrist.

[justsomeguy]

Rather than looking at the justice systems of other countries (which are free to implement their laws as they see fit!) why don't we look at our own and why aren't we asking how is it that someone who has blatantly killed another man, and hacked two women's hands off, only receives 20 years!!!!


Cos we really like criminals here in NZ. (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=3525)

[RON SOAK]

She was stupid
She was probably a victim of a fucked up Ozzy internal drugs transfer
Its a big bad world out ther4 - be afraid (as the yanks wood have us be)
if she wernt a sexy thing she woodna got harf the covrage!
20 yrs in that shithole :puke: is grossly bad - if she dont get transfered she be dead!
Justice dont exist in the world at large

[Biff]

The thing that sickens me the most, whether she's innocent or guilty, is that I've been brought up, as have most of not all of us here, in countries where conviction can (read should) only be achieved "without reasonable doubt". There is no way on the planet that this was the case here; there were simply far too many loose ends.

The judge even bragged about the fact that he hadn't found anyone not guilty in over 500 hearings. Idiot.

If she is genuinely guilty then she deserves what she gets. I know grass is grass and hardly warrants the same sentence as murder in most 'civilised' countries, but if you enter a country that has such strict laws on drug smuggling then anyone that breaks those laws is a fool IMO.

[250learna]

i just hope they get the prisoner trade and get her out of there, i cant even imagine the poor conditions in that prisons, she probably wont last long if they dont get her out of there :no:

[Jantar]

The thing that sickens me the most, whether she's innocent or guilty, is that I've been brought up, as have most of not all of us here, in countries where conviction can (read should) only be achieved "without reasonable doubt". There is no way on the planet that this was the case here; there were simply far too many loose ends.



But the issue is that under Indonesian law a defendant is Guilty unless proved innocent. She was found to be in possession, and is therefore automatically guilty. Loose ends will not secure a discharge, it must be proff of innocence. In almost every case the only way to obtain that proof is to actually produce a confession someone else. Of course she was unable to do that.

Even under New zealand law she would most likely be found guilty. On entry to Auckland, she would be asked; "Is this your luggage?" "Didi you pack it yourself?"

An affirmative answer to these two questions would establish a prima facie case against her, and loose ends would not be enough to establish reasonable doubt. However, coming back into NZ with weed would only get community service and a fine, or at most home detention.

[Skyryder]

I have very little sympathy for Miss Corby.

The simple response to the situation, and one that would make Indonesia pay dearly (if that's your thing) would be to completely stop going there as a tourist.

On the flip side as Mangell has already mentioned, It gives me the screaming heebee jeebies to think that sane, sensible people in "western" countries, with a judicial system that at least pays lip service to personal freedom, can think that they can apply their values and expected legal and sentencing outcome in another country. That is called Imperial hubris folks. How long before you all pack the shottie and head to Indonesia to show the "natives" how it's "supposed" to work?

4kg of green packaged the way it was, is just about the same shape and size as a boogie board for goodness sake.

Either don't go there or padlock or cable tie all your zip tabs together.

So someone breaks the cable or the lock. Can't see that Indonesian judges would take that into account. Bottom line in that country, as one of the judges said to the defence, 'bring me the guy,' and your client is off. Now if the Aussie police can't get the culprit how the hell is anyone else expected to locked in a cell.

Just hope they don't have another major disaster. They won't get much help from this part of the world.

Skyryder

[Kickaha]

And you are just as sure that the joke of a legal system that is indonesia - rated one of the most corrupt systems in the world - proves her guilt?!?!

For me - and I suspect many others - it's easy - my most recent visit to indonesia was my last.

And the second statement is even more ludicrous if she didn't do it.

I'm not sure of anything in this world but I'd expect her to notice a 4kg difference in her bag especially if it's something she carts around on a regular basis


Yes my second statement may appear ludicrous"IF" she didn't do it, but "IF" she did it's a whole different ball game! (If's,but's and maybe's are a waste of time)

now "IF" she is innocent why (if it's reported correctly) did she try to stop the customs at the airport opening the bag?

[Rainbow Wizard]

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=12587

[Dafe]

INDONESIA (May 2005) - Schapelle Corby found guilty for importing 4.1 Kg of cannibis.
Sentenced to 20 years in prison.

NEW ZEALAND (March 2005) - Stephanie Baker found guilty for importing 6000 LSD tablets into NZ.
Sentenced to 2 years in prison with deportment to her homeland Canada after 4 months, where she will be placed under home detention to serve the remainder of her 2 year term.

Schapelle Corby - Pleads Innocent, not proven guilty. 20 Years (Jail).
Stephanie Baker - Pleads Guilty, Proven Guilty. 2 Years (Home Detention).

Personally, I like the strict laws in Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore etc - problem is they need to have solid evidence and proof before applying them.

Is Schapelle Corby guilty? I'm on the fence!
Even though Corby had strong relationship ties to drug rings.

Innocent until PROVEN Guilty! (Thats Human Rights!!!)

[jimbo600]

Corby is innocent in my opinion. Indoesia hate Aussies and the lack of justice demonstrated over the Corby issue highlights this. I used to holiday in Bali every year, but they can get fucked now.

[WINJA]

Corby is innocent in my opinion. Indoesia hate Aussies and the lack of justice demonstrated over the Corby issue highlights this. I used to holiday in Bali every year, but they can get fucked now.
SHE MAYBE INNOCENT WEVE ONLY SEEN ONE SIDE OF THE ARGUEMENT , I BET THERES PICTURES TUCKED AWAY OF HER SNORTING COCAINE AND POSING WITH 1 METER HIGH PLANTS IN HER LIVING ROOM , I THOUGHT SHE HAD A SHADY PAST LIKE BEING A HOOKER AND A DRUG MULE SOMETHING I HEARD COULD BE WRONG. EVEN IF GUILTY 20 YEARS IS LONG IF ONLY OUR CHILD MOLESTORS AND RAPEIST GOT THAT TIME ID BE HAPPY

[mangell6]

I'm not sure of anything in this world but I'd expect her to notice a 4kg difference in her bag especially if it's something she carts around on a regular basis


Yes my second statement may appear ludicrous"IF" she didn't do it, but "IF" she did it's a whole different ball game! (If's,but's and maybe's are a waste of time)

now "IF" she is innocent why (if it's reported correctly) did she try to stop the customs at the airport opening the bag?

I'm with you on this.

From reading todays StarTimes article about she could have an easy time in there if she has money, and could even be out in a couple of years.

Mike

[zadok]

Without hearing all the evidence it is a tough call to make, but there is no doubt under N.Z & Aust sentencing precedents, 20 years is grossly over the top.
Anyway, SAY NO TO DRUGS.

[Big Dave]

I'm not sure of anything in this world but I'd expect her to notice a 4kg difference in her bag especially if it's something she carts around on a regular basis


Yes my second statement may appear ludicrous"IF" she didn't do it, but "IF" she did it's a whole different ball game! (If's,but's and maybe's are a waste of time)

now "IF" she is innocent why (if it's reported correctly) did she try to stop the customs at the airport opening the bag?

You might be right - Guess we'll never know eh?

chz

[James Deuce]

So someone breaks the cable or the lock. Can't see that Indonesian judges would take that into account. Bottom line in that country, as one of the judges said to the defence, 'bring me the guy,' and your client is off. Now if the Aussie police can't get the culprit how the hell is anyone else expected to locked in a cell.

Just hope they don't have another major disaster. They won't get much help from this part of the world.

Skyryder

If baggage handlers are stuffing drugs into bags they are only going to go for unlocked bags. It takes about 5 seconds to open a zip a bung a bag in. To cut a lock or cable tie requires a tool that would in itself raise suspicion if a baggage handler was carrying it or caught using it on luggage, and takes longer to do. I agree - locking or cable tying your bag is only a deterrent.

But she didn't bother.

There is no question of natural justice or fairness to be discussed. She broke the law, wittingly or unwittingly, in a country where the punishment is known to be extreme. Those of you discussing it from the point of view of how terrible the sentence is are doing it from the perspective of your culture and values system.

Euroipean cultures raped and pillaged "Middle East", "Eastern", and "South East" Asia for 300 years. Huge social problems, particularly in China, "South East", Asia, and the Ducth East Indies were created by the Opium trade of the 19th Century. Why is everyone so surprised that the punishment for foreigners trafficking drugs in those areas are so punitive.

Big Dave: -She deserves sympathy for the effect it will have on her life, BUT she does not deserve any more sympathy than any other person carrying drugs into that area. The so-called Bali 9 are all unattractive and demonstrably gullible and stupid - where's the outpouring of grief for them? They are going to be put against a wall and shot.

She will survive her prison time. Family are "encouraged" to participate in "funding" her prison stay.

I put it to you all - She is only the object of Australasian pity because of Blow Job Lips, Big Tits, and legs that look good in a short skirt. From a purely humanitarian point of view, and that of a parent, I feel for her and her family. But this happens all the time, in many countries, to many people. I find it odd that she has been singled out for attention.

If you don't want it to happen to you and yours, stop going for "cheap" holidays and surfing trips in Indonesia. Their culture is different. Their justice system is different. Their views on the value of individual rights vs the good of society are different.

[Biff]

But the issue is that under Indonesian law a defendant is Guilty unless proved innocent. She was found to be in possession, and is therefore automatically guilty. Loose ends will not secure a discharge, it must be proff of innocence. In almost every case the only way to obtain that proof is to actually produce a confession someone else. Of course she was unable to do that.

I agree. My point being that we're all used to the innocent until proven guilty process. So that's why I believe most people brought up in a 'judicial' society are somewhat bemused at the verdict.


Even under New zealand law she would most likely be found guilty. On entry to Auckland, she would be asked; "Is this your luggage?" "Didi you pack it yourself?"

I don't know about that. Any defence lawyer worth their salt would have attempted to rip the so called evidence to shreads. At bare minimum they would have questioned the fact that there were no finger prints taken, no CCTV footage at the airport, airport staff at Sydney airport were under investigation and so on.

You may be right, but she'd have serious grounds for an appeal as the only evidence I'm aware of if the fact that the grass was found in a boogie board that she was carrying. But I'm not convinced that in an NZ court a conviction could have been achieved ' beyond reasonable doubt'.

[Ixion]

If baggage handlers are stuffing drugs into bags they are only going to go for unlocked bags. It takes about 5 seconds to open a zip a bung a bag in. To cut a lock or cable tie requires a tool that would in itself raise suspicion if a baggage handler was carrying it or caught using it on luggage, and takes longer to do. I agree - locking or cable tying your bag is only a deterrent.
..

I have not followed the case of Ms Corby with sufficient diligence to pass comment on her guilt or innocence (though it does seem that the standards of proof are very different to those we are used to).

However, on the subject of locking bags. If you use the "standard" suitcase locks, you may as well not bother. All the baggage handlers , customs staff etc have keys to fit them. If you fit a personal lock with genuine security, you will, before many trips are past, find it cut off, in the name of "security". With a sticker attached. And your bag thoroughly rifled. Having a lock says "something to hide" to airport security. And "something worth stealing" to baggage handlers.

The question of someone planting stuff in luggage is one that concerns me. I though about it the last time I went to Indonesia (costs Rupiah 50000 bribe nowadays at immigration incidentally - inflation everywhere). If someone did plant stuff in your luggage, you'd never notice. Most people just grab their bags off the carousel and sling them on a trolley. Tired after a long trip, you're not going to notice a couple of extra kilo.

And even if you did find out before customs , what are you to do ? "Please officer I just found this " ? Guaranteed to get you at least a life sentence.

There a lot of *VERY* dodgy stuff goes on beind the scenes at airports. Someone planting it on her wouldnt surprise me. Maybe someone wanted to make an example of her ? Perhaps she was asked to run something and refused ? Who knows.

Best answer is not to take hold luggage I guess, though that can be difficult.

[Pixie]

"Is there justice in Indonesia?" the judges asked in their 80-page, two-hour summation and decision. "Yes there is."

Schapelle Corby gets 20 years in a Bali jail for importing 4kg of marijuana, I dont reckon she did it, whata bout you guys?

4kg has a street value in NZ of about 80000 bucks, how stupid would you be to put a 4kg block of weed in your boogie board bag? Theres no way you can be that stupid.

They cant even prove she did it, no finger prints on the bag.

The other thing that gets my is why would you bring drugs into Bali? People get the drugs out of Bali.. i could understand taking like an ounce (28?) grams for personal use while on holiday, but 4kg is hardly personal use.

What do you guys think? Guilty? Not Guilty? Punishement too harsh/lenient? Should she be able to do her sentance in Australia?

20 years in a fucking bali jail cell is hardly better then death, you guys seen Midnight Express? Christ
Smuggling dope to Indonesia from Aussie
=Taking coal to Newcastle

If the aussies have any spine they should boycot tourism to indonesia
that'll show 'em

[Pixie]

I think none of the above, she's is just plain stupid either way. Sorry but i feel really subtle about this. Guilty - really dumb as we all know the penalties, Not Guity - :weird: why didint she secure her luggage going to bali????
Assuming you travel overseas...do you secure your luggage?
Travelling to the USA for instance ,you are not allowed to lock your luggage.

[Pixie]

I agree completely - and if she found that something was wrong she should have gone straight to the nearest cop/custom officer and surrendered the stuff. Mate when there's a possible death penalty involved you don't mess around.

And the reason she could not have been let off easily is that the case was world wide news so the judges would be setting a rather important legal precedent here.
And the kindly ,non-corrupt,policeman wouldn't assume she just got cold feet and charge her?

[Pixie]

[QUOTE=jazbug5]
However, I do have to agree that the attention she is getting is all about her being young, pretty and female. There are a lot of people in foreign jails around the world who no-one gives a rat's about, because they don't make for good TV.

QUOTE]
Lorrianne Cohen got a lot of publicity over the years ,and see was a ropy old junky tart

[Pixie]

INDONESIA (May 2005) - Schapelle Corby found guilty for importing 4.1 Kg of cannibis.
Sentenced to 20 years in prison.

NEW ZEALAND (March 2005) - Stephanie Baker found guilty for importing 6000 LSD tablets into NZ.
Sentenced to 2 years in prison with deportment to her homeland Canada after 4 months, where she will be placed under home detention to serve the remainder of her 2 year term.

Schapelle Corby - Pleads Innocent, not proven guilty. 20 Years (Jail).
Stephanie Baker - Pleads Guilty, Proven Guilty. 2 Years (Home Detention).

Personally, I like the strict laws in Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore etc - problem is they need to have solid evidence and proof before applying them.

Is Schapelle Corby guilty? I'm on the fence!
Even though Corby had strong relationship ties to drug rings.

Innocent until PROVEN Guilty! (Thats Human Rights!!!)
As for "strict laws" in Indonesia,a doco crew found they could buy any illicit subustance/service they wanted within 5 minutes of exiting customs.

[Sutage]

To people who say its only a big story cus shes hot is bullshit, anyone who gets in trouble in those shithole countrys should be publicised, especially for crappy charges like marijuana, 20 years should be for rapists and murderers

[jazbug5]

To people who say its only a big story cus shes hot is bullshit, anyone who gets in trouble in those shithole countrys should be publicised, especially for crappy charges like marijuana, 20 years should be for rapists and murderers

By saying that 'anyone...who gets into trouble in those...countries should... be publicised', you are not really making a case for saying that it's untrue that that is the reason this case has received so much attention.
Basically, maybe they should- but they aren't. Bonus points for guessing why.

[Sutage]

Probably because shes innocent and have no proof that SHE put the drugs into her bag and were hers. If she was guilty as sin. ie finger prints on the bag then it wouldnt be as big a deal.. like the bali 9 arent in the papers anymore, because they are GUILTY, i dotn think she is
just put yourself or a friend/family member in her shoes, could happen to anyone/anytime and obviously it does

[Skyryder]

If baggage handlers are stuffing drugs into bags they are only going to go for unlocked bags. It takes about 5 seconds to open a zip a bung a bag in. To cut a lock or cable tie requires a tool that would in itself raise suspicion if a baggage handler was carrying it or caught using it on luggage, and takes longer to do. I agree - locking or cable tying your bag is only a deterrent.

But she didn't bother.

There is no question of natural justice or fairness to be discussed. She broke the law, wittingly or unwittingly, in a country where the punishment is known to be extreme. Those of you discussing it from the point of view of how terrible the sentence is are doing it from the perspective of your culture and values system.

Euroipean cultures raped and pillaged "Middle East", "Eastern", and "South East" Asia for 300 years. Huge social problems, particularly in China, "South East", Asia, and the Ducth East Indies were created by the Opium trade of the 19th Century. Why is everyone so surprised that the punishment for foreigners trafficking drugs in those areas are so punitive.

Big Dave: -She deserves sympathy for the effect it will have on her life, BUT she does not deserve any more sympathy than any other person carrying drugs into that area. The so-called Bali 9 are all unattractive and demonstrably gullible and stupid - where's the outpouring of grief for them? They are going to be put against a wall and shot.

She will survive her prison time. Family are "encouraged" to participate in "funding" her prison stay.

I put it to you all - She is only the object of Australasian pity because of Blow Job Lips, Big Tits, and legs that look good in a short skirt. From a purely humanitarian point of view, and that of a parent, I feel for her and her family. But this happens all the time, in many countries, to many people. I find it odd that she has been singled out for attention.

If you don't want it to happen to you and yours, stop going for "cheap" holidays and surfing trips in Indonesia. Their culture is different. Their justice system is different. Their views on the value of individual rights vs the good of society are different.

So that makes it right. Sorry Jim. Values are 'cross compartmentalised." By that I mean, there are values that other cultures have that are superior to our own and like wise there are values that our culture has that are superior to others. It is the nature of man to uphold those that they believe. In another word it is called patriotism. And yes it is true that societys authorities use, what in simple terms is called propaganda, to harness the masses support. Now before I am misjudged I am in no way saying that the Australian govenment used the media for this purpose but the fact that Howard got his governent involved gives some credence to my arguments. Big tits, good looks etc. SC has all the ingrediants for a media circus if I am permitted to use such a word.

This in no way changes the fact that she has been given twenty years (and with appeal may be longer) for what. For what you call 'unwittingly' breaking the law. You then continue and say that "there is no question of natural justice or fairness to be discussed."

I put it too you if this was your own child would you still have such and opinion.

Skyryder


PS The Bali nine were caught with drugs strapped to bodies going out. The analogy between the Bali nine and Corby only exists due to the relationship that ilegal drugs were found in both cases. The bali nine were caught as a result of an Australin tip off. Just seems bloody strange that the Indonesian police can not catch heroin going out but can catch 'leaf' coming.

[James Deuce]

So that makes it right. Sorry Jim. Values are 'cross compartmentalised." By that I mean, there are values that other cultures have that are superior to our own and like wise there are values that our culture has that are superior to others. It is the nature of man to uphold those that they believe. In another word it is called patriotism. And yes it is true that societys authorities use, what in simple terms is called propaganda, to harness the masses support. Now before I am misjudged I am in no way saying that the Australian govenment used the media for this purpose but the fact that Howard got his governent involved gives some credence to my arguments. Big tits, good looks etc. SC has all the ingrediants for a media circus if I am permitted to use such a word.

This in no way changes the fact that she has been given twenty years (and with appeal may be longer) for what. For what you call 'unwittingly' breaking the law. You then continue and say that "there is no question of natural justice or fairness to be discussed."

I put it too you if this was your own child would you still have such and opinion.

Skyryder


PS The Bali nine were caught with drugs strapped to bodies going out. The analogy between the Bali nine and Corby only exists due to the relationship that ilegal drugs were found in both cases. The bali nine were caught as a result of an Australin tip off. Just seems bloody strange that the Indonesian police can not catch heroin going out but can catch 'leaf' coming.


If it was my own child, as I have already said, I would have a vested interest. I care deeply and personally about my family, as Schapelle's do for her by all appearances. But I wouldn't expect my personal tragedy to become NZ's.

I'm sorry but you are utterly misguided if you think your value system is superior to anyone else's. Includung the Taliban. You're over simplifying cross-cultural communication interfaces to a huge degree, and values are most definitely not the same between cultures. What you call the nature of man is a reprehensible disregard for broader society in many cultures. Your frame of reference is yours and it comes from a completely different social, religious, and philosophical perspective than the Indonesian justice system.

For what it's worth, the more information that comes out, such as trying to stop the customs official from opening her boogie board bag, makes her look like she had something to hide.

[Biff]

Travelling to the USA for instance ,you are not allowed to lock your luggage.


I always lock my bags, even when I fly to or transit through the US. When transiting though (LAX) you do sometimes have to go through a security checkpoint where they ask you to unlock your bag in order for them to search it.

[matthewt]

I nearly shat my pants one time coming back into Singapore from Malaysia.

I'd been to the WSB round in Malaysia and brought 5 superbike t-shirts. One of the chief sponsers was Lucky Strike so I got given 5 free packets for each t-shirt. I just stuffed them (all 25!!!) in my backpack with the shirts and had completely forgotten about them until halfway through Singapore customs. Too late to ditch them. Lucky for me they never checked my bag. From memory the limit is 1 packet per person.

Hard to say what they would of done had they found them, at the least I'd of had my employment pass canceled and been flicked home.

[StoneChucker]

Bugger, just did a longish post in the "petition" thread, before seeing this one. Can't be bothered to do another. :mad:

[Skyryder]

If it was my own child, as I have already said, I would have a vested interest. I care deeply and personally about my family, as Schapelle's do for her by all appearances. But I wouldn't expect my personal tragedy to become NZ's.

I'm sorry but you are utterly misguided if you think your value system is superior to anyone else's. Includung the Taliban. You're over simplifying cross-cultural communication interfaces to a huge degree, and values are most definitely not the same between cultures. What you call the nature of man is a reprehensible disregard for broader society in many cultures. Your frame of reference is yours and it comes from a completely different social, religious, and philosophical perspective than the Indonesian justice system.

For what it's worth, the more information that comes out, such as trying to stop the customs official from opening her boogie board bag, makes her look like she had something to hide.

I am not talking about vested interests. I am talking about values. When you can apply the same 'values' to a stranger as you can to family, that is the acid test of compassion. I have children of about the same age as Corby.
My values in this would be no different if they were in her place but my invlovement would be. Therein lies the difference.

Not too sure about your comments that you 'would not expect your personal tragedy to become New Zealands.' Has there been some suggestion that Corbys parents 'expected their personal tragedy to become Australias.' If not can not see the relevance of your comment.

I have never stated that my value system is superior to anyone elses. It is true that I believe that our presumption of innocence is superior to that of guilt but in doing so, my frame of reference has nothing to do with it. If that is so then I would accept 'all' the values of our society without question.

I have no idea whether Corby is innocent or not. But the fact that the Indonesian justice system requires the victim to proove their innocent when, in this instance it would appear, that with the help of the Australian authorities, she was unable to do so, seems wrong. I make no apology for my position on this. It has been my experiance that when I am accused of over simplifying an arguement my opponent has no counter arguement. I will in your case make an exception to this so as not to go off in a tangents.

I am unaware of Corbys reluctance to open her bag to custom officials as is there right. On this I can only comment that when I refuse to open my bag to retail security personal, as is my right I get more than a little pissed off when I am asked "What do you have to hide."

It seems to me that you have a predisposition of guilt untill prooven innocence. Do you?


Skyryder


PS Nothing misguided about me. Straight as an arrow I am.

[StoneChucker]

For what it's worth, the more information that comes out, such as trying to stop the customs official from opening her boogie board bag, makes her look like she had something to hide.

I agree, What I have to say (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showpost.php?p=250629&postcount=17)

[James Deuce]

It seems to me that you have a predisposition of guilt untill prooven innocence. Do you?



Not at all, but the French do, and they were the first modern European Republic.

You're assuming that every culture should presuppose innocence.

What I believe is that if you break the law in another country you should suffer the full weight of the sentence. It is not a question of compassion at all. What do you expect the International "community" to do about it? Compel Indonesia and France to release everyone from their penal systems because they're "wrong"?

There's only one way to "compel" a nation and that requires Military force. There's too much oil being produced in Indonesia to ever expect the cooperation of every country with the capability to conquer Indonesia to impose what you perceive to be "right" in this circumstance. You're still not trying view the situation from Indonesia's perspective. You can only apply your values in your own social milieu. You cannot enforce them on a different culture by proxy or invasion.

You've said a bunch of things that were not stated clearly in your original arguments. If you want a discussion fine; I'm not really that thrilled to be responding to a series of ambushes.

[StoneChucker]

I agree in essence with what Jim2 said.
But, I do believe that some cultures are more evolved than others. Why? I think the treatment of women in certain cultures is unconstitutional, in terms of global views/values. I think the treatment of animals in other cultures is barbaric and thus I can agree that the sentencing of certain crimes in Indonesia for example, is archaic and arrogant.

I don't have a problem with the sentence in terms of time. I agree here, that what a culture deems appropriate for a crime is up to that culture alone. We have to respect what they hold true, and abide by it should we wish to participate in said culture. I have a problem with the justice system, guilty until proven guilty. No matter what you say, that system is not fair and just. The system appears to run on autocratic, arrogant and corrupt foundations. And as for what happened in past western/middle eastern history is completely irrelevant imo, as Shappelle did not instigate or propogate those attrocities. However, you are right - it is infact quite relevant. It's good to make someone pay for what happened in the past isn't it! :whocares:

[StoneChucker]

Not at all, but the French do, and they were the first modern European Republic.

You're assuming that every culture should presuppose innocence.

What I believe is that if you break the law in another country you should suffer the full weight of the sentence. It is not a question of compassion at all. What do you expect the International "community" to do about it? Compel Indonesia and France to release everyone from their penal systems because they're "wrong"?

There's only one way to "compel" a nation and that requires Military force. There's too much oil being produced in Indonesia to ever expect the cooperation of every country with the capability to conquer Indonesia to impose what you perceive to be "right" in this circumstance. You're still not trying view the situation from Indonesia's perspective. You can only apply your values in your own social milieu. You cannot enforce them on a different culture by proxy or invasion.

You've said a bunch of things that were not stated clearly in your original arguments. If you want a discussion fine; I'm not really that thrilled to be responding to a series of ambushes.

This I agree with 100% Much more precise, to my liking :niceone:
If the trial was fair, I'd leave it at that.

[pete376403]

Was I imagining it, or did anyone else hear on the news that the same judge sentenced a multiple murderer to 10 years because of his "politeness to the court", and lambasted the SC defence team for displaying a "crying competition". The sentence seems to be more about the judges own ego.

[scumdog]

Hmmm, not convinced either way but that 'evidence' that Corby tried to stop her bag being opened? No security video of it and only the easily bought words of two airport staff to back it up - was NOBODY else there to see what REALLY happened?

Why (can somebody explain?) would ANYBODY bother to take weed INTO Indonesia when it is so readily available there and at a cheaper price than in Aussie?i

Bring in Indonesian sentencing with our justice system - now THERES food for thought.

Be a frosty day in hell before I visit Indonesia, always thought that but now confirmed.

[Skyryder]

Not at all, but the French do, and they were the first modern European Republic.

You're assuming that every culture should presuppose innocence.

What I believe is that if you break the law in another country you should suffer the full weight of the sentence. It is not a question of compassion at all. What do you expect the International "community" to do about it? Compel Indonesia and France to release everyone from their penal systems because they're "wrong"?

There's only one way to "compel" a nation and that requires Military force. There's too much oil being produced in Indonesia to ever expect the cooperation of every country with the capability to conquer Indonesia to impose what you perceive to be "right" in this circumstance. You're still not trying view the situation from Indonesia's perspective. You can only apply your values in your own social milieu. You cannot enforce them on a different culture by proxy or invasion.

You've said a bunch of things that were not stated clearly in your original arguments. If you want a discussion fine; I'm not really that thrilled to be responding to a series of ambushes.


No I am not proposeing that every county should have a presumption of innocence. I am stating that a presumption of guilt is more likely to have an innocent defendant found 'guilty' than the presumption of innocence, where guilt must be prooved, as is the case of our judicial system.

I have in no way suggested that Indonesia does not have the right to determine to enact whatever law it sees fit. I do maintain that indaviduals and the international community has the right to protest in a non vilolent way to to disagree and possibably change it. As they/it did(helped) in the case of South African apartheid system.

I have very little sympathy for Miss Corby This from your original post on the subject. And yet in a reply to Big Dave you contradict yourself by stating Big Dave: -She deserves sympathy for the effect it will have on her life, BUT she does not deserve any more sympathy than any other person carrying drugs into that area. Correct me if I am wrong but are your saying that Corby, where there is some doubt about her own knowledge of carryin drugs in her bag deserves, no more sympathty that the Bali 9 who were found with Heroin strapped to their bodies.
Heres another one. It gives me the screaming heebee jeebies to think that sane, sensible people in "western" countries, with a judicial system that at least pays lip service to personal freedom,
Perhaps you could explain how the judicial system has 'infinged' your personal freedom. It is clear that you have very little concern about other people infingments of personal freedom so perhaps you could explain how the judicial system has infringed yours. Now I not saying that it has not but an explanation of your views on this would be intersting.

But here lies the difference between our argument. You stated There is no question of natural justice or fairness to be discussed. She broke the law, wittingly or unwittingly, in a country where the punishment is known to be extreme.


But this is the issue. To suggest otherwise is to miss the point of this ducussion or perhaps not wanting to see it.

It is the severity of the sentance along with the possibility that this may be increased that has so many people upset. Not to mention that the Australian police has uncovered the possibility of airline baggage handler involvment of drug trafficking. Ignorance is not a defence in either system and I have in no way suggested that it is. But when a judge boasts that he has not found one defendant innocent, that presuposses all who appear before him are guilty of the crime that they are accused of. Or that the judge is simply indifferent to an alternative possibility; innocence. I suspect the latter.

And then you go on and state the obvious... Those of you discussing it from the point of view of how terrible the sentence is are doing it from the perspective of your culture and values system.
No intellect in that supposition.

Given the time and effort I could tear all your arguments to pieces. For example you ask if I believe that the International community should compell France and Indonesia to release every one from their penal system because they are wrong. Show me where I susggested this. I have used the word superior to differentiate between our judicial system and that which found Corby guilty. Look up the differences in the dictionary.

As for your accausation that I have ambushed you...............is it my fault that you have been caught off guard. I believe that I have been upfront but I find these accusations from you .........petty to say the least. I am more than willing to take up dialogue with you on any subject that may arise on these forums but please do not interpert my comments in such a way as to denigrat me. You do me a disservice but yourself more so.



Skyryder

[Ixion]

Hmmm, not convinced either way but that 'evidence' that Corby tried to stop her bag being opened? No security video of it and only the easily bought words of two airport staff to back it up - was NOBODY else there to see what REALLY happened?

Why (can somebody explain?) would ANYBODY bother to take weed INTO Indonesia when it is so readily available there and at a cheaper price than in Aussie?i

Bring in Indonesian sentencing with our justice system - now THERES food for thought.

Be a frosty day in hell before I visit Indonesia, always thought that but now confirmed.

Interesting thing is, the times I've been to Indonesia (not Bali admittedly), no-one has displayed the slightest interest in checking my bags. You just collect your luggage, slip the immigration guy his 50000 rupiah, fill in the form that says nothing to declare and walk out. No-ones ever stopped me or even appeared to look at me. Not that they would ever have found anything I must add. But they've always seemed utterly disinterested. Same in Malaysia. (except they have a wierd thing about hats, wanting you to take them off) Aussie is the worst for officious turkeys wanting to check stuff.

[justsomeguy]

Interesting thing is, the times I've been to Indonesia (not Bali admittedly), no-one has displayed the slightest interest in checking my bags. You just collect your luggage, slip the immigration guy his 50000 rupiah, fill in the form that says nothing to declare and walk out. No-ones ever stopped me or even appeared to look at me. Not that they would ever have found anything I must add. But they've always seemed utterly disinterested. Same in Malaysia. (except they have a wierd thing about hats, wanting you to take them off) Aussie is the worst for officious turkeys wanting to check stuff.

You been to India?? :Punk:

[Ixion]

You been to India?? :Punk:
No, never to India. though I've a suspicion that that would involve a LOT of very pedantic border officials. Who probably spend a lot of time consulting rule books. I know quite a few Indians. Give an Indiana rule book and you've given him an occupation for life :rofl:

[marty]

if you go to the states and lock your bags, the WORSE thing that will happen is the lock gets cut off, or you get searched. if you've nothing to hide, then that's part of travelling. if the lock is cut off, then you have some back up if something is missing/found. tie wraps are the best, lightweight, easy to carry 20 or so, need sharp tools to cut them - bolt cutters won't. maybe it's time the customs areas had an area that people can check their own bags before going into the customs chute? good time to have a last check for any add-ins if the padlock has been tampered with.

[James Deuce]

It's a bike site.

I voiced an opinion. I still stand by it.

I have no desire to present my argument as anything other than an opinion. Hence my comment re. ambushes. I don't come to this site looking for a fact based discussion on comparing elements of cultures. I also could pull your "arguments" to bits, but you are taking a contrary view that could be described as mischeivous at best.

You are not going to change my mind no matter how many times you change direction in your posts, another reason to call your posts ambushes. One minute we appear to be discussing the same thnig. The next you've tacked to another heading.

You've sucked a great deal of joy from this site for me as I feel like I am being held to account for voicing an opinion that the opinion that you seem to subscribe to is nothing more than thinly veiled Post Victorian Imperialism. White Christian Might does still indeed appear to be Right.

Another thing - We were ALL wrong. Indonesia does indeed pre-suppose innocence in its judicial system. I spoke to an Indonesian friend, and the myth that Ms Corby's guilt was pre-supposed was an Australian media construct based on the Indonesian judge referring to the prima facie case against Ms Corby (she was in possesion of a substantial quantity of drugs) as providing a basis to assume she was guilty.

I really do have very little sympathy for Ms Corby. Islamic social norms are completely different to western christian ones. Australia and Indonesia have a very strained relationship. Western travellers behave in ways, especially the way women dress, that give an Islamic culture an excuse to be, at the least, affronted. It is extreme arrogance to think you can bowl into another culture, another country, and then demand that they let you behave in whatever way you want.

[Lou Girardin]

What the hell has her "past" have to do with anything. At last report,she didn't have a "past". Her father and brother had done some petty crime, does that make her guilty?
The real issue is why they didn't fingerprint the bag of dope or video the arrest as they did for the 'Bali nine'. They had plenty of time to do so, they found the dope well before they arrested her.
I, for one, will never visit that corrupt shithole and I'm damn sure there's plenty others who won't too.

BTW. The inquisitorial system of justice does not have a presumption of guilt, that's a little refinement added in Indonesia to increase the revenue to Judges. "As in,you're guilty, but a small sum can change that"

[ManDownUnder]

What the hell has her "past" have to do with anything. At last report,she didn't have a "past". Her father and brother had done some petty crime, does that make her guilty?
The real issue is why they didn't fingerprint the bag of dope or video the arrest as they did for the 'Bali nine'. They had plenty of time to do so, they found the dope well before they arrested her.
I, for one, will never visit that corrupt shithole and I'm damn sure there's plenty others who won't too.

BTW. The inquisitorial system of justice does not have a presumption of guilt, that's a little refinement added in Indonesia to increase the revenue to Judges. "As in,you're guilty, but a small sum can change that"

Yeah I have to admit I'll be reluctant to go through there again.

I do a bit of travel and notice the different systems in airports around the place and it is difficult to maintain security of your nbags. No - actually it's impossible.

When you hand your bags over - they're gone. They are in the care of people and systems unknown until you see them on the arrivals conveyor belt at the next airport.

What get's put in or out of your bag remains unknown - the only thing you can can do is check to see if someone has been in there. Padlocks are an expensive way to do this. They get cut off, they cost money and you have to replace 'em for the next flight (or you don't know who was in your bags... again!)

So as someone mentioned here, I use cable ties. The small ones with the tag on the end (somewhere to write). Get a bag from dick smith or similar.

Lock your bag with it, cut the end off so it isn't nuisance value, and sign the tag. If it's been opened at the other end, it'll be obvious. At that point you can say - it was opened.

If a lot of people in the airports start doing this (and I expect they wil be doing something similar now...) then GOOD. The airlines hold me accountable for my bags, and I'll pass on that blame as needed.

As fr Chapelle Corby - I personally believe she was innocent and silly. Why would anyone take dope into a country that grows it, dropping it's street value from AU$60,000 in Oz, to AU$5,000 in bali? They GROW the stuff there. It's an export crop.

Yes they have drug problems there - the problem is that the supply is too high ('scuse the pun).

What about the cameras at airport check in not working on the day she checked her bags? Where are the x-ray films of her bags as they 1) get checked in and 2) get passed onto an international flight.

MISSING??? what a surprise!

I understand there is more but I'll stop here.

I don;t pretend to know it all in respect of this case. I only know what the media has told me and they have an unfortunate habit of wanting to sell sensational stories... go figure. So I don't even trust my sources.

aaaa enough said.

back to work for me!
MDU

[Ixion]

..

So as someone mentioned here, I use cable ties. The small ones with the tag on the end (somewhere to write). Get a bag from dick smith or similar.

Lock your bag with it, cut the end off so it isn't nuisance value, and sign the tag. If it's been opened at the other end, it'll be obvious. At that point you can say - it was opened.

If a lot of people in the airports start doing this (and I expect they wil be doing something similar now...) then GOOD. The airlines hold me accountable for my bags, and I'll pass on that blame as needed.
..

I can remove cable ties without cutting them. You just need a narrow little pointy thing to slip into the "head" and hold the "tail" away from the "ridge". Then pull hard. When I did this (it was legititmate, don't get ideas) I had a special little gadget I made.

[scumdog]

I can remove cable ties without cutting them. You just need a narrow little pointy thing to slip into the "head" and hold the "tail" away from the "ridge". Then pull hard. When I did this (it was legititmate, don't get ideas) I had a special little gadget I made.

A touch with a soldering iron (or maybe a Bic-Flic?) ensures their integrity.

[Paul in NZ]

Excellent.. This thread is getting into the wonderful world of the sweeping generalisation... Fun ahead chaps, full speed and don't spare the emotions...

In an effort to inflame the situation I have to ask how the average, working class, footy lovin, Bali excursion going, aussie that learnt cultural tolerance by discussing not actually killing the last Aboriginal in the concentration camp at the Wogga Gogga Public bar over a crate of VB would feel about the Indonesian Govt meddling in their justice system.

Imagine if the Chinese govt had got all stroppy about the people buying drivers licenses or kidnapping folks here in NZ? (well they would be upset about private industry getting in on govt business of course)

We would be 'outraged'.....

Our 'colonial' attitudes might just get us into a power of trouble with Indonesia one day. If that happens we might just need to be a bit careful.

Our media portrays the judge as an evil buffoon... The pretty defendant as an angel etc etc. That may not be the case... From what I've seen I could just as easily protray her as a stupid white chick that thinks she can put one over the dumb darkies and her parents as idiots that think thay saying "Aw she'll be comin 'ome soon cobber' will make a difference... Sorry mate you aint in Wogga wogga now... Shit yes she is upset... (hell who wouldn't be) but really the defence has come up with bugger all evidence.

Wondering where is the video of the arrest etc.. Hello, this is Bali. Hells teeth the NZ police could not manage that at short notice in Timaru (as an example) and we are supposedly a 'superior' society???

We have to stop comparing and thinking our system is better. Thats neither here nor there. The fact is she is in trouble there and it will be judged by Indonesian stds. It's their country.

Cheers

[scumdog]

After reading the above I'm struggling to think what Indonesia has to offer that isn't available at a 'safer' location??

Go there and take your chances, after all you are visiting 'their' territory.

[Paul in NZ]

After reading the above I'm struggling to think what Indonesia has to offer that isn't available at a 'safer' location??

Go there and take your chances, after all you are visiting 'their' territory.

Exactly mate...

I can pop down the road to Cuba Mall and get my hair braided then can usually find a hooker withing 200 yds and it's not a long walk to the beach either.. Mind you it's a bit parky here right now for topless sunbathing.. ;-)

It's an ever changing world and I have a feeling bali might not be the place to be for a wee while...

I'm thinking of a club med resort at raumati, anyone care to invest?

ah hem

[marty]

you can get tamperfree zip ties - i challenge you to get one with a metal lock tab undone. the plastic ones are shite. it's a question of ease - if a loader has to fuck around with unlocking a zip tie, or just opening a non-locked bag, or pinging a lock with a pair of $2 cutters, which is he going to choose?

and once you've got a cut-off zip tie undone, how the hell are you going to get it done up again?

[Skyryder]

It's a bike site.

I voiced an opinion. I still stand by it.

I have no desire to present my argument as anything other than an opinion. Hence my comment re. ambushes. I don't come to this site looking for a fact based discussion on comparing elements of cultures. I also could pull your "arguments" to bits, but you are taking a contrary view that could be described as mischeivous at best.

You are not going to change my mind no matter how many times you change direction in your posts, another reason to call your posts ambushes. One minute we appear to be discussing the same thnig. The next you've tacked to another heading.

You've sucked a great deal of joy from this site for me as I feel like I am being held to account for voicing an opinion that the opinion that you seem to subscribe to is nothing more than thinly veiled Post Victorian Imperialism. White Christian Might does still indeed appear to be Right.

Another thing - We were ALL wrong. Indonesia does indeed pre-suppose innocence in its judicial system. I spoke to an Indonesian friend, and the myth that Ms Corby's guilt was pre-supposed was an Australian media construct based on the Indonesian judge referring to the prima facie case against Ms Corby (she was in possesion of a substantial quantity of drugs) as providing a basis to assume she was guilty.

I really do have very little sympathy for Ms Corby. Islamic social norms are completely different to western christian ones. Australia and Indonesia have a very strained relationship. Western travellers behave in ways, especially the way women dress, that give an Islamic culture an excuse to be, at the least, affronted. It is extreme arrogance to think you can bowl into another culture, another country, and then demand that they let you behave in whatever way you want.


In the interests of biker diplomacy.

Have a nice day.


Skyryder

[WINJA]

you can get tamperfree zip ties - i challenge you to get one with a metal lock tab undone. the plastic ones are shite. it's a question of ease - if a loader has to fuck around with unlocking a zip tie, or just opening a non-locked bag, or pinging a lock with a pair of $2 cutters, which is he going to choose?

and once you've got a cut-off zip tie undone, how the hell are you going to get it done up again?
YOU DONT THINK BAGAGE HANDLERS CAN CARRY A SELECTION OF ZIP TIES

[StoneChucker]

I guess the only option is to cable tie your bags with secure cable ties before handing them over. Then upon collection, open the bags (regardless of whether the ties are intact or not) and search the bags yourself before you go anywhere. All's sweet, go through customs. Find a big bag of "icing sugar" or "oregano", hmm, dispose of it how you deem best. 1, surrender it to a customs official, and spend 20 years in jail, surrendering your ass to Ling, the prison's resident shemale or TRY ditch it somewhere (shitter, rubbish, try snort/smoke it all).

But Paul/Scumdog are right. Don't bother going there, you can get it all here, or other suitable locations not so dangerous. A friend recently came back from Sri Lanka (on a house building mission) and said it's a wonderful place with friendly welcoming people.

Hell, you can all come round to my place and sunbathe in the garden.

Oh, lets not get too offensive/defensive in our posts ay? :niceone:

[Drew]

This entire thing is such a media storm - hell they had it on all afternoon on prime, and yet we don’t show as much concern to the slaves and those dieing of curable disease’s - if you want justice open your eyes to the wider picture I'm afraid - the world is a sick place


I'm with you mate. Did you hear about her beuty sallon, it has a sign on the door that reads," back in twenty".
There are bigger fuckin issues than how dumb this woman was, and what happens to her. :whocares:

[Biff]

Highly recommended for locking your luggage.
There's even an indicator that tells you whether your luggage has been opened or tampered with. And they're inexpensive considering the potential consequences.

http://www.gogogear.com.au/shopexd.asp?id=1217

[Hitcher]

One day soon, the dust will settle on the Schapelle Corby case and the truth/facts, uncoloured by the heat of emotion and anger, will come out. We will be surprised to learn things that we should have known earlier and will probably feel betrayed and cheated by the "poor" service done to the story at the time by the dreaded media. There will always be a belief that the Australian Government could have done more to assist, or that if somebody had looked harder some evidence would have been found that could have got her off. Yeah right.

For now Schapelle has little to look forward to, other than an appeal which I predict will be fruitless. Her case is piss-weak, unless her defence counsel can produce a baggage handler prepared to confess all in front of an Indonesian judge. Her best option is to swallow her pride and to beg the Indonesian President for forgiveness. Yes, that may be seen as an admission of guilt. But given a choice between Bali and Brisbane, I know my preference! Otherwise she will be forgotten by the enraged Australians almost immediately the triggers have been pulled on the Bali Nine; to emerge again in 20 years time on the cover of Woman's Day and New Idea.

International travel is risky. It always has been. Given heightened tensions since September 11 (I always have to remind myself it's not November 9, bloody Americans), travel is riskier now than it has been for many years. Border agencies everywhere generally try to do the right thing by the travelling public but you can make life extremely difficult for yourself (and others travelling with you) if you piss them off. But if you obey the laws and regulations and take zealous efforts to protect yourself and your possessions, and are friendly, respectful and courteous, you should be OK.

And enough of the talk about busting padlocks, etc. Yes, it is entirely possible that there lurks a fudpucker baggage handler with an oxyacetylene plant and a universal key. But I suspect his prowess and commitment to tampering with Louis Vuitton is much overestimated by the more paranoid amongst us.

[MadDuck]

Sign outside Corbys Salon

"BACK IN 20"

Hell I have travelled through most of those countries including Singapore and Thailand. I check my damn bags before entry to visa check because its a sensible thing to do...ok I aint blonde and beautiful.

The precaution comes from seeing a mate stitched in Amsterdam for a tiny bit of hootch he forgot was in his pocket on return to Heathrow back in the 90's. Its their laws and their rules. Enter their countries knowing this. She looks like the perfect drug runner to me - next is lil ole ladies. IMHO

[jaybee180]

Currently if you are travelling to the States via Auckland with either Quantas or Air New Zealand you will have your luggage randomly searched by Aviation Security. If you have any locks, including ties of any nature, you will be asked to remove them or they will be cut off. It's up to you if you want to replace them. If you are entering the States and they want to search your bags then they will remove them any way they see fit. (I know coz I work for Aviation Security). There is nothing for you to sign to state that your bags have ever been locked at any stage other than your word, which really aint gunna mean much.

In saying all this you would be amazed at what people try to take out of the country that they KNOW is not allowed and then proceed to give lame excuses for why they need it. The bottom line is that if it's not allowed then you don't need it.

From November 2005 ALL international luggage will be x-rayed that is leaving the country. It's gunna be interesting just what we find then. And remember this is just what is leaving the country - not what is coming in.

At the end of the day be very careful with your luggage, take only what you need. If you can hire it, or buy it overseas then do so.

[Ixion]

Currently if you are travelling to the States via Auckland with either Quantas or Air New Zealand you will have your luggage randomly searched by Aviation Security. If you have any locks, including ties of any nature, you will be asked to remove them or they will be cut off. It's up to you if you want to replace them. If you are entering the States and they want to search your bags then they will remove them any way they see fit. (I know coz I work for Aviation Security). There is nothing for you to sign to state that your bags have ever been locked at any stage other than your word, which really aint gunna mean much.

In saying all this you would be amazed at what people try to take out of the country that they KNOW is not allowed and then proceed to give lame excuses for why they need it. The bottom line is that if it's not allowed then you don't need it.

From November 2005 ALL international luggage will be x-rayed that is leaving the country. It's gunna be interesting just what we find then. And remember this is just what is leaving the country - not what is coming in.

At the end of the day be very careful with your luggage, take only what you need. If you can hire it, or buy it overseas then do so.


Which pretty much confirms my original conclusion that there is no safe way to take hold baggage. So will we see travellers demanding an increase in the miserly cabin bag allowance, so they can take a proper suitcase in the cabin?. Myself I travel light, I can take enough for a month's trip in a cabin bag. But no woman could do that.

And if we suspect that Kiwi air side staff are a bit suspect, and Oz ones 10 times worse, I warrant that the USA ones are 100 times worse again.

[Hitcher]

Which pretty much confirms my original conclusion that there is no safe way to take hold baggage. So will we see travellers demanding an increase in the miserly cabin bag allowance, so they can take a proper suitcase in the cabin?. Myself I travel light, I can take enough for a month's trip in a cabin bag. But no woman could do that.

And if we suspect that Kiwi air side staff are a bit suspect, and Oz ones 10 times worse, I warrant that the USA ones are 100 times worse again.
If you're really paranoid you can check your baggage immediately you collect it off the carousel prior to going through immigration/customs/agriculture. But if the luggage is screened prior to uplift even that may not help you much, if you're worried about the fudpucker baggage handler with the gas axe and halitosis...

If your bag was OK when you checked in onto an international flight, there's a particularly good chance that it will still be OK once you uplift it at the other end.

[Lou Girardin]

When they ask you if you packed the bag yourself, always say that it has been out of your sight since then. If possible put it in writing.

[Biff]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4598419.stm

Ok - fess up.

[Marmoot]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4598419.stm

Ok - fess up.

not much different from the so-called 'terrorism' in middle-east?
Probably about time US invade OZ before such incident happen with US embassy there?
:whistle:

[Sniper]

She got into trouble, her fault, I have no comment

[Biff]

She got into trouble, her fault, I have no comment

But you just did! :yes:


not much different from the so-called 'terrorism' in middle-east?:

Excellent point. If a Middle Eastern organisation had sent the package to the embassy it probably would have been labelled a terrorist attack and every racist, intolerant prick from here to Washington, London and most of the western world would be up in arms claiming all Muslims should be hung bla, blah, blah. But it was probably sent by a harmless, peace loving, white person, so the world is a nice and fluffy place.

[Lou Girardin]

I wonder if the people referring to Corby's past are confusing her name with Darryl Sorby of Mr Asia notoriety.

[Skyryder]

Otherwise she will be forgotten by the enraged Australians almost immediately the triggers have been pulled on the Bali Nine; to emerge again in 20 years time on the cover of Woman's Day and New Idea.


Don't underestimate the power of the Australian goss mags. They were instramental in getting Linda (Lindy) Chamberalin off.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4598419.stm

Ok - fess up.


Not me.


Skyryder

[Hitcher]

Don't underestimate the power of the Australian goss mags. They were instramental in getting Linda (Lindy) Chamberalin off.


Skyryder
There were some significant deficiencies in the prosecution's case too that helped, eventually. Don't forget that Lindy did go to jail for a while too.

[gav]

OK, lets say the dope was planted, who would plant it and where? How would they recover it? Do they do this on a regular basis? What happens, someone comes up to her after she's left the airport,"Hang on Miss, just want to get my drugs out of your boogie board bag"?

[Biff]

OK, lets say the dope was planted, who would plant it and where? How would they recover it? Do they do this on a regular basis? What happens, someone comes up to her after she's left the airport,"Hang on Miss, just want to get my drugs out of your boogie board bag"?

A 'bird' once told me it can work in one of several ways:

a) The item in which the drugs are in is stolen upon arrival at its intended destination. With or without force. The original item, a boogie board for example, being swapped for a 'dodgy' item somewhere along the lines. This method is possibly the most difficult method, logistically, and normally requires the help of an 'insider'.
b) The person carrying the goods is approached by a third person who then offers to buy the offending item for an amount of money that exceeds the value of the item in which the goods are stored upon its safe arrival at its destination.
c) The person carrying the item is approached by a third person upon arrival at their destination, told that they are carrying something illegal, and threatened with being reported to the authorities should they not hand the item over.
d) A third person masquerading as a law enforcement officer approaches the person carrying the goods. Similar to C.
e) The idiot carrying the goods knows there's something 'dodgy' about the item they're carrying, but does not know exactly what is 'dodgy' about it. These kinds of people are often approached in airport departure lounges and promised large sums of cash upon the safe delivery of said item.
f) Somebody is asked to carry an item on someone else’s behalf and never knows that they're carrying an illicit item. All they know is that they're doing a 'favour' by handing over the item to a 'friend' when they arrive.

All of the above are well documented methods of getting illicit items into other countries. There are more variations on these themes, and all of them are fraught with a number of logistical difficulties and require varying degrees of careful planning. Allegedly.

[Lou Girardin]

OK, lets say the dope was planted, who would plant it and where? How would they recover it? Do they do this on a regular basis? What happens, someone comes up to her after she's left the airport,"Hang on Miss, just want to get my drugs out of your boogie board bag"?

It was supposed to be smuggled internally in Aust. It was missed and ended up in Indonesia. It's thoroughly proven now that baggage handlers have easy access to passengers luggage.

[Hitcher]

A 'bird' once told me it can work in one of several ways:

a) The item in which the drugs are in is stolen upon arrival at its intended destination. With or without force. The original item, a boogie board for example, being swapped for a 'dodgy' item somewhere along the lines. This method is possibly the most difficult method, logistically, and normally requires the help of an 'insider'.
b) The person carrying the goods is approached by a third person who then offers to buy the offending item for an amount of money that exceeds the value of the item in which the goods are stored upon its safe arrival at its destination.
c) The person carrying the item is approached by a third person upon arrival at their destination, told that they are carrying something illegal, and threatened with being reported to the authorities should they not hand the item over.
d) A third person masquerading as a law enforcement officer approaches the person carrying the goods. Similar to C.
e) The idiot carrying the goods knows there's something 'dodgy' about the item they're carrying, but does not know exactly what is 'dodgy' about it. These kinds of people are often approached in airport departure lounges and promised large sums of cash upon the safe delivery of said item.
f) Somebody is asked to carry an item on someone else’s behalf and never knows that they're carrying an illicit item. All they know is that they're doing a 'favour' by handing over the item to a 'friend' when they arrive.

All of the above are well documented methods of getting illicit items into other countries. There are more variations on these themes, and all of them are fraught with a number of logistical difficulties and require varying degrees of careful planning. Allegedly.
Haven't these people heard of couriers or the postal service? Much more reliable for ensuring the delivery of extremely high-value goods.

I think the "planted" theory has significant flaws. If Schapelle was able to get her bag's contents delivered to Bali instead of uplifted in Sydney, as speculated, how many others are in the same position? If she had only been going as far as Sydney, imagine her surprise when she opened the bag at her destination. If this "passive mule" arrangement is widely used by dodgy Australian airport staff, I don't believe for a moment that Schapelle Corby is the only case where this fantastical and extremely high risk delivery system has gone wrong. It is a real stretch of one's credibility to believe that this method of couriering drugs is MORE reliable than airline lost luggage...

[StoneChucker]

Just a thought...
Wouldn't it be easier, cheaper and safer to just courier/post your drugs to the destination? Or do they drug check every single item?

[idb]

It was supposed to be smuggled internally in Aust. It was missed and ended up in Indonesia. It's thoroughly proven now that baggage handlers have easy access to passengers luggage.
She was supposed to carry 4kg of dope internally? Ouch!

[jazbug5]

Just a thought...
Wouldn't it be easier, cheaper and safer to just courier/post your drugs to the destination? Or do they drug check every single item?
If it's like the system we have in the UK, there are sniffer dogs that go through the mail at the ports. This type of modified bud would stink to high heaven, whatever you did- at least as far as the dogs would be concerned.
Plus, I regularly see seized fake documents here at work that people have attempted to send concealed & postally. Certainly makes you think...

[MSTRS]

Schapelle has had her sentence changed to death by stoning........she has asked for her travel bag back and a lighter, and said she would do it herself

[Lou Girardin]

If it's like the system we have in the UK, there are sniffer dogs that go through the mail at the ports. This type of modified bud would stink to high heaven, whatever you did- at least as far as the dogs would be concerned.
Plus, I regularly see seized fake documents here at work that people have attempted to send concealed & postally. Certainly makes you think...

They use baggage handlers to circumvent these checks. Dope goes in after the dogs had a sniff in the departure area and collected before it is checked at arrival.

[MD]

1. She's way too cute and sexy to rot in a smelly jail
2. Only Shapelle knows if she is truly guilty or not. We are in no place to judge her. Which only leaves judging her on looks. And there I'm swayed by her blue eyes and boobs - lots of swaying there.
3. What sways me to feel for her plight though is, why would anyone, clever or stupid, or a drug smuggler, bother taking dope into Bali? There's just no motive. Next is the fact that her Lawyers ASKED the Police to finger print the bag and they REFUSED! Refused the most common and simpliest evidence test of the last century? That begs the question why refuse? Which in turn suggests they had already carried out this standard test, found none of her prints so refused to provide evidence that weakened their prosecution case. This stinks more than a Bali courthouse to me.
Putting all this aside 20 years in prison for dope. A drug slightly higher up the food chain from whisky is far too harsh for the crime.
I travelled SE Asia as a 20 something twice and indulged in lots of burning of local dried plants. I didn't see myself as a crim then and still don't. We knew the penalties for smuggling were tough and only had enough for our personal use (lovely term that) and never travelled with any (trains/planes stuff). Even then I came very close to doing time in a Thai jail. Try being woken up, have drunk, half stoned, some naked bird beside you and 8 soldiers pointing machine guns at you. Had a barrel about 3 inches from my eye as the Cop/soldier cocked it. Now that was a wake up call. Had to have a few smokes after that to calm the nerves. If they objected why was it for sale on every corner. We came across restaurants that had 'thai sticks 20 baht' printed into the menu.
Personally I think the 8 months she'd done is punishment enough. Comments above about she should have felt the bag heavier and should have locked it are rubbish. I remember a flight from India where all the bags & mine came off the carousel rummaged through, half open, stuff missing - was that the passengers fault and responsibility to never take their eyes of the luggage- not possible.
Anyway if she gets out soon I look forward to the Playboy issue she will no doubt get asked to do.

[StoneChucker]

Anyway if she gets out soon I look forward to the Playboy issue she will no doubt get asked to do.
Hmm, add 20 years on in a shithole jail and I'm not so sure...

[mikey]

im goign to be lame an quote myself from other free schalep corbs thread.


wong!!!!!!!!!!! I MEAN wtrong!!!!!!!!!!! I MEAN WRONG........... GOT IT AT LAST, SHOULDN BE DRIBNKING THIS EARLY IN THE MORNING.

AS PUAL SAID THERE WAS A ARTICLE IN PAPER

it said its a fucking good business ijmporting pot into bali, she was just stupid how she did it (if she did or not thats not the point) its a fucking good business

WHY...................

firstly,

there is fuck loads of shit horse pot in bali, what was in shcalpel or whoevers bag was hydroponically growen wqith some huge buds, not the shit the natives grow,

secondly,

westerners have growen wary off buying pot oiff natives as it could be a cop (an its pretty shit stuff as previously mentioned) they pay as much if not more than what we pay here for good hydroponically growen pot, from westerners as there is less chance of it beinga copper in disguise or should i say a copper on duty :rofl:

thirdyl;

i dont no another reason

NOTE READ FIRST NOT LAST [IF YOUR MEMORY IS AS GOOD AS MINE]

when i say westerners i mean white p[eople just doesnt sound as racist

[Usarka]

Bahahaha you fullas thought she was innocent :killingme

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10481173

[Hitcher]

Bahahaha you fullas thought she was innocent

Never for one moment.

[What?]

Bahahaha you fullas thought she was innocent :killingme

Well,
a/ She may be straight-up guilty, or
b/ She may have been used as a blind mule (but you would think most people would be able to detect that their bag was quite a bit heavier than it was when they got on the plane!), or
c/ She may have been set up by her associates (as a way of getting rid of her??)
Whatever, you can't hang a person on the grounds of what their associates have done. otherwise we would all get speeding tickets on the grounds that we must be guilty through knowing someone who has exceeded the speed limits.

[The Pastor]

guilty as finn with the beastiality act.

[jrandom]

c/ She may have been set up by her associates (as a way of getting rid of her??)

They'd waste 50 grand worth of product on 'setting her up'?

Tui moment!

This is why drug-related offenses almost anywhere in the world are for 'possession', not ownership.

You have the stuff in your possession, you're guilty.

Every cop since time immemorial has heard the "but this is my cousin's jacket" line. Or the "this isn't my car" line. Or any other variation on the general "I don't know how that got there".

If one does not wish to risk being found in possession of contraband, one shouldn't associate with those in the business of supplying it. It stretches belief beyond credibility to think that Ms Corby had no idea that her associates were attempting to move their product to Indonesia, and that they somehow got to her bags after she'd packed them and sneaked in a shitload of cannabis before she got in the airport taxi.

She's a drug mule, end of story. 20 years is harsh, but... life's a bitch.

[Usarka]

Whatever, you can't hang a person on the grounds of what their associates have done. otherwise we would all get speeding tickets on the grounds that we must be guilty through knowing someone who has exceeded the speed limits.

No legally you can't. But in your example most of us would actually be guilty wouldnt we...... :innocent:

[Tank]

guilty as finn with the beastiality act.

The difference is that Corby says that she didnt do it. Finn actually tells people how much fun it is.

[vifferman]

The difference is that Corby says that she didnt do it.
Well, according to my fantastic powers of statistical inference, that makes her guilty, as almost every prisoner in the world sings that same song.

[Pussy]

I heard that some bastard put a body board in her marijuana bag.....

[Skyryder]

Bahahaha you fullas thought she was innocent :killingme

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/2/story.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10481173

Nope. It all proves is that dopers had access her baggage.

I don't know if she is guilty or innocent but what I saw on TV of her was a very confused young lady. I suspect that the only reason she was found guilty was she could not find the bribe money to be found innocent.

I'm surprised the womans magazines have not taken up her 'plight' as they did with mother who claimed her baby was taken by a dingo. Don't recall her name.

Skyryder

[LilSel]

Corby's half-brother, James Kisina, 20, was convicted last year of stealing drugs during a home invasion.

^^^^from the herald... *scratches head*...

"officer... someone stole my dope plants":Police:

[mooks]

Nope. It all proves is that dopers had access her baggage.

I don't know if she is guilty or innocent but what I saw on TV of her was a very confused young lady. I suspect that the only reason she was found guilty was she could not find the bribe money to be found innocent.

I'm surprised the womans magazines have not taken up her 'plight' as they did with mother who claimed her baby was taken by a dingo. Don't recall her name.

Skyryder

Lindy Chamberlain
Dingoes got a bad rap for that job :dodge:

[What?]

No legally you can't. But in your example most of us would actually be guilty wouldnt we...... :innocent:
Shhhhhhh!!!!

They'd waste 50 grand worth of product on 'setting her up'?

Tui moment!

Someone fetch me the gaff - I've hooked a beauty!!

(Sorry JR - I totally agree with you)

[homer]

"Is there justice in Indonesia?" the judges asked in their 80-page, two-hour summation and decision. "Yes there is."

Schapelle Corby gets 20 years in a Bali jail for importing 4kg of marijuana, I dont reckon she did it, whata bout you guys?

4kg has a street value in NZ of about 80000 bucks, how stupid would you be to put a 4kg block of weed in your boogie board bag? Theres no way you can be that stupid.

They cant even prove she did it, no finger prints on the bag.

The other thing that gets my is why would you bring drugs into Bali? People get the drugs out of Bali.. i could understand taking like an ounce (28?) grams for personal use while on holiday, but 4kg is hardly personal use.

What do you guys think? Guilty? Not Guilty? Punishement too harsh/lenient? Should she be able to do her sentance in Australia?

20 years in a fucking bali jail cell is hardly better then death, you guys seen Midnight Express? Christ



Oh come on course she was guilty
then it was her bro only a few weeks later .....funny we havnt heard much about that now have we

I think she was carrying for him in the first place