Are we TOTALLY invisible?

[Bren]

Yesterday I went out for a ride to pick up a tagorama tag. :scooter:

Well was just one of those days I guess when you wonder if you are totally invisible. Not 500m down the road was the first incident. An old biddy pulled out straight in front of me in front of the Otaki Medical Centre. No indication, no nothing, she did not even acknowledge me when I tooted at her...:angry:
Just past the medical centre is the roundabout. My intention was to go straight through...I saw a car coming up on the left and figured he would see me going through....well I either figured wrong or he just did not care, because of instead of giving way to me he plows on through leaving me no choice but to try out my E-Braking technique....:nono:
then further down the road (about 2km) when I was going down Riverbank Road a guy in a soft roader with a vehicle trailer on the back decides to do a U turn. I have time to brake and slow down but it got me thinking WTF is up with these assholes:mad:

Yeah I expect to see idiots about when I am out riding, but 3 within a space of 5 min?



Anyhow rant over, and just keep an eye out for these idiot and the many others that are making our roads unsafe!

[imdying]

Had the same thing happen in the car... It's not because you're on a bike, it's just the level of driving in general.

[Milts]

Don't forget, winter=reduced visibility.

[Big Dave]

Yes, you are totally invisible. Never forget it and always ride like it.

[onearmedbandit]

Who said that?

[Jonathan]

Yes, you are totally invisible. Never forget it and always ride like it.

+1

I always assume the cars around me cannot see me so I normally am prepared when they pull into my lane, or out in front of me from a side street.

Had the closest call yet yesterday though. I had just rounded a corner in town when a car I couldn't see, and who was not indicating, decided to pull out - quickly- from the carpark it was in that was right on the corner. I managed to swerver around it but it missed me by what must have been only millimetres! Also, very lucky there was no oncoming vehicle in the right lane.

[imdying]

Yes, you are totally invisible. Never forget it and always ride like it.Excellent advice. Drive like that too.

[avgas]

nah they just hate you

[Quasi]

Thats Otaki for yah!!:sick::shit:

But seriously - just shows why we must ride defensively 110% of the time. I just assume every vehicle on the road has no idea I am there and ride as tho they are out to get me. Winter seems to be much worse as well

[Stirts]

Otaki Medical Centre.

The Dr's rooms maybe a little slow, so they are trying to drum up new custom by hiring the local tards and old folk to hurt people.

[grbaker]

I've got twin headlights and two running lights... I'm not invisible.. they see me and just go anyway.

Car driver = tosser

[Bren]

I have been riding on and off for years, and you do seem to expect people to do stupid things...I always ride cautiously and am aware that people either may not see me or dont give a rats arse about me.....but 3 close calls in a short space of time...was not expecting that....

I guess if everyone had to ride for 2 years before they got a car it would be a safer road out there...Motorcyclists normally are safer drivers IMHO...

[imdying]

I've got twin headlights and two running lights... I'm not invisible.. they see me and just go anyway.

Car driver = tosserIt's not a car/biker thing. I've seen what's left of a car that pulled out in front of a croncrete mixer :laugh: And trains, how many cars get hit by trains?!? Not exactly invisible are they... what, with that great big bloody aircraft langing light out the front and all!

[SMOKEU]

I always ride with the thought that every cager is out to kill me.

[EJK]

Walk into Women's changing room in your biker suit. See if you are invisible.

[Headbanger]

Yes, you are totally invisible. Never forget it and always ride like it.

Thats going to make smashing off their wing mirrors so so sweet.

They will be like, "who the fuck was that, I can't see anybody"

And I'll be like "fuck you arsehola, I'm fuckin invisible"

Oh yeah

[Big Dave]

Thats going to make smashing off their wing mirrors so so sweet.

They will be like, "who the fuck was that, I can't see anybody"

And I'll be like "fuck you arsehola, I'm fuckin invisible"

Oh yeah

Yes - but you'll need the special 'Emperor Brand' invisibility riding suit to match.

I have one I can let you have for $500.

[p.dath]

I hate to mention this, but is the problem with every other road user - or something you are doing? Just seems a bit suspicous.

What do you do to make other road users aware of your presence? Something visual? Something noisy? Brightly coloured bike maybe?

[imdying]

I hate to mention this, but is the problem with every other road user - or something you are doing? Just seems a bit suspicous.

What do you do to make other road users aware of your presence? Something visual? Something noisy? Brightly coloured bike maybe?They won't see anything if they're looking at their iPod or (insert distraction here) mate, you look after yourself as best you can and you'll be ok most of the time. The rest of the time, well, if you could control that, we'd all be on our knees worshipping you now wouldn't we :D

/edit: Don't be getting ideas either! :P

[Bren]

I hate to mention this, but is the problem with every other road user - or something you are doing? Just seems a bit suspicous.

What do you do to make other road users aware of your presence? Something visual? Something noisy? Brightly coloured bike maybe?

Oh, my bad.....I should have gone riding on a neon pink hog with tassles dangling off the handlebars whilst wearing a clown suit and big sz 24 shoes....Remind me to grab them out of the closet next time I go for a ride!
212471

[Genie]

Hi Bren,

So pleased to read you got out for a ride.
How was it, despite the thoughtless dorks in their cars. Did you get in the zone and experience the pure bliss that is riding?
How rude that other people should be on the road when you are? Do that not know that the road is yours and they should get the fuk off it!!! Really how rude, and then to blast their way across your path without any consideration for you. Disgusting.
I'm rather pleased to read you got out there and played, your soul needed that.
I was informed by a rather clever young man that when I ride my bike I should tell myself that everyone else that is on the road wants to kill me and it order to stay alive I must be extra vigilant. I'm glad you are extra vigilant for that means you can ride again tomorrow.

Have a pleasant evening and dream of twisties.

Genie

[imdying]

Have a pleasant evening and dream of twisties.I would, but I got married, so now I just dream of her curves :drool:

[Dave Lobster]

I don't believe any of this. The law was changed so we all ride round with our headlights on all the time. This makes us all visible, all of the time.
Otherwise, they wouldn't have wasted our money changing the law.

[Genie]

I don't believe any of this. The law was changed so we all ride round with our headlights on all the time. This makes us all visible, all of the time.
Otherwise, they wouldn't have wasted our money changing the law.


Seriously, I so hope you dont' believe what you just posted...oh I'm sure your taking the piss!
You just have to be, please tell me your post was riddled in sarcasm

[bones135]

Had a guy nearly cut me off on a Mt Maunganui roundabout this arvo....got through & looked down & saw my left indicator was on.....We can all be dumb asses at times...well i can anyways:blink:

[Urano]

Yes, you are totally invisible. Never forget it and always ride like it.

so true: 80% of bike accident caused by "oh sorry, didn't see you..."
actual statistic.
keep that in mind.




I've got twin headlights and two running lights... I'm not invisible.. they see me and just go anyway.



The law was changed so we all ride round with our headlights on all the time. This makes us all visible, all of the time.


it's not so easy. as i've said before, the main problem is the perception of the "point of light" appearance of a bike. it's way more difficult to understand speed and direction of a single light point than a couple, as you have on a car.
if, at evening, you look at a bike slowly overtaking a car queue on the other lane, you'll find very hard to understand where is it in every single moment: it seems just another car light...
beside that, your "running light" system, with the direction indicators always on, seem to me dangerous rather than useful...

if you have less "registration" problems than we have (by law we have no possibilities to change almost anything on the bike...) i'd really suggest to put a red or yellow or white strobo flashing light under the fairing of the bike.
i'd already have done it, if i could... (PS: is this period correct with the verbs? :D i often make a mess... )



I hate to mention this, but is the problem with every other road user - or something you are doing? Just seems a bit suspicous.
What do you do to make other road users aware of your presence? Something visual? Something noisy? Brightly coloured bike maybe?

right, and always useful.
white or bright colours helmets first of all: let them go with the last cool "replica" scheme, keep it plain but bright!
then bright bike colours too, if possible: it's strange to say, but my lime green kawasaki was spotted from distance, and recognized as something "fast" (even if it wasn't properly true...) cause most people know that is a racing colour. buy a black or gray bike, even if it's a zzr 1400, and you'll disappear in the fog...
then stay "large" on the intersection, don't stay right behind a car preceding you, use always the direction indicator, etc etc... we all know...



They won't see anything if they're looking at their iPod or (insert distraction here) mate

oh man! this is italians' favourite game!
they're able (well, no, they aren't) to drive while smoking, eating, drinkin, reading newspaper, writing sms (because you know, talkin at the phone is forbidden, so let's do something intelligent!...), arguing with the passenger, makin' up, cutting their nails, dressing up, combing hairs, making crosswords, and, actually one of the best i've ever seen, MAKIN PUZZLES...

no need to add anything else...

[Urano]

...................

[schrodingers cat]

Don't forget, winter=reduced visibility.

Winter = reduced temperature = reduced neural activity

[rjg]

It's so frustrating when people pull out in front of you, or try and change lanes on top of you. After having a few near misses from these people, I ride much more defensively and assume that no one can see me.

I also up-sized my horn and rest my thumb on it if I think someone is going to do something stupid.

[blackdog]

I can only assume from the OP that you were riding completely within the boundaries, were able to identify and negate any and all hazards, and got a TAG.

I say well managed, and a squirt in the rain.

Keep it up.

[Dave Lobster]

You just have to be, please tell me your post was riddled in sarcasm

I don't think I've posted anything here, ever, that hasn't been. :)

[Mom]

I am invisible. No joking, I am. There are only a select few that can see me, they are few and far between. The rest I throw a smoke screen up and pray my essence is visible in the haze. Some days I wish I could find a denser fog;)

[Mully]

Yes, you are totally invisible. Never forget it and always ride like it.

Bingo. And you'll stay alive much longer if you ride like that too.

[Katman]

so true: 80% of bike accident caused by "oh sorry, didn't see you..."
actual statistic.
keep that in mind.


Bullshit.<hgvhgvhjv>

[That looks like fun]

I drive a big trucky thing with lights and trailers and big tooty airhorn things and all three people who have run into the side of said beasty have all said "sorry":yes: . Oh yeah and that they didnt see me.
If they cant see a truck they sure as hell wont see a bike. I like the advice to ride like you are invisible. (except for the ladies changing room part) :innocent:
For the record I only need a Subaru and a Honda and I have collected a full set of jap cars :yes:

[rastuscat]

The viz issue is what Dr Charley identified as the big issue.

He went on to talk about how we can increase our own visibility, or wait for everyone else to improve their vision.

Seeing you isn't about eyes, it's about perception and the minds ability to accept what it has been presented with by the eyes, and how that fits in with the normal perceptions of the receptors.

Cringe, did I just write that?

Bollocks, it's everyone elses fault, they're all homocidal maniacs and I'm the best rider in the world.

So there.

[caseye]

Only reply is, glad you! had your! wits about YOu and didn't get tangled up with any of them, yes this is the norm and yes they don't see you.
I still maintain that mostly they do see you, they just don;t equate you as a big enough threat and so they go/pull out anyhow.
Ride like everyone else out there is hell bent on killing you, including and while I hate to say this, it's happened to me more than once in the lat year or two other motorcycle riders.

[Dare]

If we are invisible anyway we may aswell start riding these. (http://www.impactlab.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/invisible-motorcycle-945.jpg)

[Big Dave]

The viz issue is what Dr Charley identified as the big issue.

My 'concern' is that the source data is flawed.

This is what I know. Several close calls I've had involving a vehicle failing to give way have avoided being collisions because I was looking directly at the driver. On a two such occasions the driver stopped to apologise and I politely accepted their 'Sorry - I didn't see you' word for word and moved on.

The issue is that they didn't see me because they didn't even look. There was no chance of visual because their eyes never were cast my way.

'I didn't see him' makes a whole lot better and more blame free story to an investigating police officer or insurance company than - 'well I'm just such an inattentive dipstick or I was so busy tuning the radio and fucked up'.

[scumdog]

Yes, you are totally invisible. Never forget it and always ride like it.

Dang right - and always expect them to react like you wouldn't expect them to react.


If they react.

[Dave Lobster]

Dang right - and always expect them to react like you wouldn't expect them to react.


Other than choking, what reaction do people have to a gloved fist crushing their windpipe?
:confused:

[scumdog]

Other than choking, what reaction do people have to a gloved fist crushing their windpipe?
:confused:

Dunno, it's hard to do while lying on the road with a banged-up bike on top of you....

[Big Dave]

I don't think I've posted anything here, ever, that hasn't been. :)

Funnily enough I was going to mention you have been at 'dripping point' lately - in another thread!

I think it's time to get cynical before moving on to bitter :-P

[Bren]

Dang right - and always expect them to react like you wouldn't expect them to react.


If they react.

Well the choking option might prove a bit drastic, but I have often been tempted to put a boot in their door as I go past whilst negotiating an emergency manouveur...How would the law relate to that???

[blackdog]

Well the choking option might prove a bit drastic, but I have often been tempted to put a boot in their door as I go past whilst negotiating an emergency manouveur...How would the law relate to that???

dunno, but currently my toe slider is sporting a nice rav4 blue, a touch of olive from a terrano, and a big streak of cock in a holden SS (and didn't see you) red....

[Dave Lobster]

Well the choking option might prove a bit drastic, but I have often been tempted to put a boot in their door as I go past whilst negotiating an emergency manouveur...How would the law relate to that???

No no no no no. You wouldn't be putting a boot in. You would be fending it off. :)

[MIXONE]

That's just a normal morning commute in wellywood.

[Insanity_rules]

That's just a normal morning commute in wellywood.

Testify! We get a good share of rectalcephalitic tin jockeys in Wellywood. Auckland is pretty prolific too from my experience.

[Urano]

Bullshit.<hgvhgvhjv>

oh guy...
i LOVE those argued replies...

here it is a short article citing italian highway patrol statistics:
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=it&ie=ISO-8859-1&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nextmoto.it%2Farticolo%2Fincide nti-moto-velocita-e-disattenzione-ma-la-colpa-e-degli-automobilisti%2F56%2F&sl=it&tl=en

translation in this case is pretty bad, but about in the middle of the page you cane read the bold statement which approximately says
*70% of accident with a car or a truck is because they didn't see you*

and remember that those are only the cases where the police went out on the site.
i clearly remember a similar statistic given by insurance companies, so referred to all those cases the police didn't show up too, which raised that number at about 80%
very, very interesting the reported fact that those numbers fall if the car driver is a biker too.
it's clear that being a biker teach you WHERE and HOW to look outside, as we discussed also in the topic called "did the bike make you a better car driver" or similar...


anyway, even if you want to remain on the conservative side, the conclusion is: "they don't see us". period.

[Katman]

anyway, even if you want to remain on the conservative side, the conclusion is: "they don't see us". period.

Your statistics don't measure up to the figures we have here.

And quite frankly, I'm sick to fucking death of hearing "but they didn't see me".:cry:

I'm more interested in "but did you see them?"

[Bren]

Your statistics don't measure up to the figures we have here.

And quite frankly, I'm sick to fucking death of hearing "but they didn't see me".:cry:

I'm more interested in "but did you see them?"

I dont know what to say katman, but do you always try and bring out the worst of people, cos you do bloody well at it!

[Katman]

but do you always try and bring out the worst of people,

Not at all.

I'm just sick and tired of seeing motorcyclists portraying themselves as the perpetual victim.

We need to wake the fuck up and realise that the power of our own survival lies in our own hands.

[Urano]

I'm more interested in "but did you see them?"

and the answer, often, is: "sure i did, dear Saint Peter. he was waiting at the intersection, he had the stop signal, i slowed down and assumed he saw me and was waiting for me to pass. then he started suddenly when i was too close to do anything"

... ;)

[Kickaha]

i slowed down and assumed he saw me
... ;)

There's where it normally turns to custard, you shouldn't ever assume anything when it comes to dealing with other motorists

[miloking]

Not at all.

I'm just sick and tired of seeing motorcyclists portraying themselves as the perpetual victim.

We need to wake the fuck up and realise that the power of our own survival lies in our own hands.

Fuck for once i agree with you!
What going on????

[st00ji]

There's where it normally turns to custard, you shouldn't ever assume anything when it comes to dealing with other motorists

sorry if you are riding on the road at some point you have to trust your fellow road users, else you'd never get out of the driveway

[p.dath]

oh guy...
i LOVE those argued replies...

here it is a short article citing italian highway patrol statistics:
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=it&ie=ISO-8859-1&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nextmoto.it%2Farticolo%2Fincide nti-moto-velocita-e-disattenzione-ma-la-colpa-e-degli-automobilisti%2F56%2F&sl=it&tl=en

translation in this case is pretty bad, but about in the middle of the page you cane read the bold statement which approximately says
*70% of accident with a car or a truck is because they didn't see you*


Knowing some of Katman's prior posts I suspect that argument he has is not with the "number", but fundamentally with the concept that accidents are caused by others who did not see you.

I suspect Katman would put forward that you are personally responsible for your own safety, and if you weren't seen by another road user it's because you put yourself into that position, failed to make yourself noticable, etc.

I believe Katman would use the phrase "situational awareness" - being aware of what's around you, who has seen you, potential dangers, etc, and then taking steps to mitigate those risks.


On the whole, I believe you are personally responsible for your own safety. I believe there are a small percentage of cases were things occur that you would not reasonably take into consideration (such as a trucks engine throwing a piston in an opposing lane result in a high speed projectile being launched into your chest ...), but on the whole, you can see that you are approaching intersections that could have hidden cars approaching, etc, you can adjust your speed and position on the road to accomodate the risk - as opposed to carrying on with no consideration for the worst happening.

I could summarise it like this. If you don't like getting hurt then do something so you wont get hurt - don't rely on someone else not to hurt you. Seem sensible?

[Kickaha]

sorry if you are riding on the road at some point you have to trust your fellow road users, else you'd never get out of the driveway

I would rather treat every other fellow road user as a homicidal maniac who is out to kill me than trust them at all, that way I will be a lot safer

[Katman]

Knowing some of Katman's prior posts I suspect that argument he has is not with the "number", but fundamentally with the concept that accidents are caused by others who did not see you.

I suspect Katman would put forward that you are personally responsible for your own safety, and if you weren't seen by another road user it's because you put yourself into that position, failed to make yourself noticable, etc.

I believe Katman would use the phrase "situational awareness" - being aware of what's around you, who has seen you, potential dangers, etc, and then taking steps to mitigate those risks.


A great many accidents could be avoided if our foremost thought when riding in close proximity to other vehicles was "what if they haven't seen me?"

The "what if" part of that thought will cause you to pre-plan avoidance strategies.

[DMNTD]

sorry if you are riding on the road at some point you have to trust your fellow road users, else you'd never get out of the driveway

If you put all your trust in the other motorists on the road...then eventually you will end up on it.

[Big Dave]

If you put all your trust in the other motorists on the road...then eventually you will end up on it.

All of a sudden I feel like I'm in an episode of 'Kung Fu'.

Who should i trust master?

Twust none gwasshopper - for all cars have blind spots and all dwivers have iphones.

[TRIUMPHSROCK675]

loud pipes are the way if they dont see you make them hear you.

[Kickaha]

loud pipes are the way if they dont see you make them hear you.

Loud pipes don't make a pinch of shit difference

[PrincessBandit]

Loud pipes don't make a pinch of shit difference

I was thinking of replacing my standard exhaust with a yoshi, but maybe I'll just invest in a louder horn (my bandit's one is pretty embarrassing). Not to mention continue riding in a way which minimises the need to emergency brake, blast the horn or abuse "blind" drivers....:yes:

[scumdog]

loud pipes are the way if they dont see you make them hear you.

Here we go again.....:rolleyes::slap:

[Urano]

I believe Katman would use the phrase "situational awareness" - being aware of what's around you, who has seen you, potential dangers, etc, and then taking steps to mitigate those risks.
[...]
Seem sensible?

perfectly.
"situation awareness" is one of the biggest point of airmanship, so i can't agree more...



A great many accidents could be avoided if our foremost thought when riding in close proximity to other vehicles was "what if they haven't seen me?"
The "what if" part of that thought will cause you to pre-plan avoidance strategies.

and i completely agree with this too.
in my first post, actually, i've tried to say that in the most cases they DON'T see you, so act as they don't see you ever and try to mitigate the problem with your drive and gear.
then i've read somewhere someone ranting at this stating, but probably i got it wrong cause of my poor english...



loud pipes are the way if they dont see you make them hear you.

loud pipes make them want to kill you on purpose cos' you're a nuisance ...
:)

[mattian]

loud pipes make them want to kill you on purpose cos' you're a nuisance ...
:)

As absurd as this sounds. There is some truth in that. Alot of middle aged men in holden commodores consider it a challenge whenever they are passed by a slightly louder vehicle than theirs.

[scumdog]

As absurd as this sounds. There is some truth in that. Alot of middle aged men in holden commodores consider it a challenge whenever they are passed by a slightly louder vehicle than theirs.

'Speshly if the Commode has red&blue flashing lights on it.....

[rastuscat]

oh guy...
i LOVE those argued replies...

here it is a short article citing italian highway patrol statistics:
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=it&ie=ISO-8859-1&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nextmoto.it%2Farticolo%2Fincide nti-moto-velocita-e-disattenzione-ma-la-colpa-e-degli-automobilisti%2F56%2F&sl=it&tl=en

translation in this case is pretty bad, but about in the middle of the page you cane read the bold statement which approximately says
*70% of accident with a car or a truck is because they didn't see you*

and remember that those are only the cases where the police went out on the site.
i clearly remember a similar statistic given by insurance companies, so referred to all those cases the police didn't show up too, which raised that number at about 80%
very, very interesting the reported fact that those numbers fall if the car driver is a biker too.
it's clear that being a biker teach you WHERE and HOW to look outside, as we discussed also in the topic called "did the bike make you a better car driver" or similar...


anyway, even if you want to remain on the conservative side, the conclusion is: "they don't see us". period.

Yeah, wot he said.........

The guys I work with attend lots of crashes. Cars, trucks, bikes, pedestrians, the whole bloody lot.

And lots of them are coz someone didn't see the other.

So it's not just bikes that are invisible.

[Neshi]

reason they are invisible is usually cos the other party was either engaged with something else than driving their vehicle, or just don't have any situational awareness whatsoever = don't look around them...

[Dare]

'Speshly if the Commode has red&blue flashing lights on it.....

Well if they will try and hide the bloody things ;)

[sinfull]

I have been riding on and off for years, and you do seem to expect people to do stupid things...I always ride cautiously and am aware that people either may not see me or dont give a rats arse about me.....but 3 close calls in a short space of time...was not expecting that....

I guess if everyone had to ride for 2 years before they got a car it would be a safer road out there...Motorcyclists normally are safer drivers IMHO...Sorry i aint gonna read any more posts Bren ! You amoungst all should know how i feel when it comes to this shit !

Your bored ! Thats the only reason your posting this crap !
You fucked up , you have become dislexic and think your driving a mac truck now days after so many Ks on the bike !
Get over it and stop Riding before the third coffee on a humdrum morning like that , jesus man i DROVE (yes drove) though otaki today and by the time i reached the gaso to buy my smokes i was ready to smash the dickhead who stood at the counter waisting a good 2 minutes looking for AA cards and then chatting about the friggin weather (the guy at the counter was being polite you dork, now fuck off and let the 6 ppl behind you get on with the stress of driving/riding through the metropielis that is Otaki on a friggin sunday, rather than rambling on about how much colder it's fuckin been, he knows, we fuckin know, now fuck off with your aa rewards) What i was thinkin is all, while i stood there with the correct change after being away from what i was doing far too long as it was !

I then left the gaso and made space for myself in what you well know is ugly traffic ! If you let others guide you, you will get hurt Bren, fast or last does not mean high speed, it means your first through or you give way ! If a granny is gonna get you, i suggest zimmer frame racing might be wise !

[sinfull]

I was thinking of replacing my standard exhaust with a yoshi, but maybe I'll just invest in a louder horn (my bandit's one is pretty embarrassing). Not to mention continue riding in a way which minimises the need to emergency brake, blast the horn or abuse "blind" drivers....:yes:
I'm sorry Princess your out of time !

[sinfull]

My 'concern' is that the source data is flawed.

This is what I know. Several close calls I've had involving a vehicle failing to give way have avoided being collisions because I was looking directly at the driver. On a two such occasions the driver stopped to apologise and I politely accepted their 'Sorry - I didn't see you' word for word and moved on.

The issue is that they didn't see me because they didn't even look. There was no chance of visual because their eyes never were cast my way.

'I didn't see him' makes a whole lot better and more blame free story to an investigating police officer or insurance company than - 'well I'm just such an inattentive dipstick or I was so busy tuning the radio and fucked up'.
They aint looking for a bike Dave, thats all there is to it i recon ! They're looking for a grill, the bigger it is, the more reaction to it !
Would so love to have the resorces behind me, to make an add for TV, that has a reaper and sickle coming through a drivers window at a car fails to give way to a bike intersection AND PUMP IT FOR SIX MONTHS !

[sinfull]

I hate to mention this, but is the problem with every other road user - or something you are doing? Just seems a bit suspicous.

What do you do to make other road users aware of your presence? Something visual? Something noisy? Brightly coloured bike maybe? You were almost making sence here, till you started with the theoretical crap !

[Tunahunter]

Try Googling the term "Motion camouflage"

[st00ji]

If you put all your trust in the other motorists on the road...then eventually you will end up on it.

i never said you should put all your trust in other motorists, that would just be foolish. but do you swerve off the road every time you see a car approaching, in case the guy is a homicidal maniac :rolleyes: and decides to cross onto your side of the road and take you out? can you see where im coming from?

[DMNTD]

i never said you should put all your trust in other motorists, that would just be foolish. but do you swerve off the road every time you see a car approaching, in case the guy is a homicidal maniac :rolleyes: and decides to cross onto your side of the road and take you out? can you see where im coming from?

Of course I can...it ain't my first rodeo, cowboy.
Once I put faith in another motorist...19 breaks to my ribs, punctured lungs and a broken shoulder.
Lesson learnt

[Katman]

but do you swerve off the road every time you see a car approaching, in case the guy is a homicidal maniac :rolleyes: and decides to cross onto your side of the road and take you out?

No, but I'm sufficiently aware of them to be able to make some effort of avoidance if they suddenly do turn homicidal.

[DMNTD]

Of course I can...it ain't my first rodeo, cowboy.
Once I put faith in another motorist...19 breaks to my ribs, punctured lungs and a broken shoulder.
Lesson learnt

+ a gorgeous black 1098S

[Genie]

Of course I can...it ain't my first rodeo, cowboy.
Once I put faith in another motorist...19 breaks to my ribs, punctured lungs and a broken shoulder.
Lesson learnt

Bet that hurt! LOTS!

One should only ever have faith in oneself and even then you need to be extra vigiliant. We're not bullet proof, we do break and we also need to remember that we do have people that love us so we owe it to them to take extra care.
When I'm out and about, I remember that first and foremost I am a mother and I owe it to my children to arrive home, safe and happy.

[Old Steve]

My wife has a degree in psychology and physiology. She reckons that it's a matter of "perceived threat". Car drivers are aware of trucks, buses, SUVs and cars that they see as posing a threat to them. But bicyclists, motorcyclists and pedestrians aren't a perceived threat. Car drivers may look, emphasis on "may", but somehow they don't register that they've seen a threat to their vehicle and their own safety.

So I wear a fluoro vest and a white helmet, ride with my light on high beam all the time, my bike is the largest 250 cruiser available and it's coloured red with silver sides. And after a near miss while riding alongside another vehicle in a dual lane situation, I've taken the baffles off the back of my mufflers - the louder exhaust may not make me noticed, but the safety aspect of being heard is my excuse officer. I've also learnt not to ride anywhere near another vehicle if I can't see their face in their rear vision mirrors, I ride on a line behind any vehicle in front of me that is outside the bodywork of the vehicle in front , and I do assume that everyone else on the road is trying to kill me.

Now I know there's a certain discussion as to whether a loud exhaust makes you safer. On this matter I fall on the side of it can't hurt to be loud and maybe heard. I also like what Scorp has said about his Screaming Demon exhausts, it makes it sound as if his bike is chuckling to herself under his bum. There ain't nothing like the sound of a vee-twin with the baffles taken out.

[p.dath]

Now I know there's a certain discussion as to whether a loud exhaust makes you safer. On this matter I fall on the side of it can't hurt to be loud and maybe heard. I also like what Scorp has said about his Screaming Demon exhausts, it makes it sound as if his bike is chuckling to herself under his bum. There ain't nothing like the sound of a vee-twin with the baffles taken out.

I think your right. Every additional sense that you engage of other road users is an increased chance to them noticing you.

But don't forget to wear earplugs - otherwise you'll become a deaf old man.

[golfmade]

Big bikes here in Taiwan get noticed, but I think it's partly because it's only recently that they are allowed. Give 'em a little more time and Taiwanese will completely ignore them and drive like they're the only blokes on the road.

[caseye]

My wife has a degree in psychology and physiology. She reckons that it's a matter of "perceived threat". Car drivers are aware of trucks, buses, SUVs and cars that they see as posing a threat to them. But bicyclists, motorcyclists and pedestrians aren't a perceived threat. Car drivers may look, emphasis on "may", but somehow they don't register that they've seen a threat to their vehicle and their own safety.

So I wear a fluoro vest and a white helmet, ride with my light on high beam all the time, my bike is the largest 250 cruiser available and it's coloured red with silver sides. And after a near miss while riding alongside another vehicle in a dual lane situation, I've taken the baffles off the back of my mufflers - the louder exhaust may not make me noticed, but the safety aspect of being heard is my excuse officer. I've also learnt not to ride anywhere near another vehicle if I can't see their face in their rear vision mirrors, I ride on a line behind any vehicle in front of me that is outside the bodywork of the vehicle in front , and I do assume that everyone else on the road is trying to kill me.

Now I know there's a certain discussion as to whether a loud exhaust makes you safer. On this matter I fall on the side of it can't hurt to be loud and maybe heard. I also like what Scorp has said about his Screaming Demon exhausts, it makes it sound as if his bike is chuckling to herself under his bum. There ain't nothing like the sound of a vee-twin with the baffles taken out.

Good post there OldSteve and oh so accurate.Re the perceived threat part for sure.
Best way, as you already do, treat em all like Homicidal maniacs! cant go wrong.

[GPS MAN]

We are invisible.....to most motorist:angry:at our peril:shit:

[Katman]

I actually wonder whether this "treat every car driver as though they're trying to kill you" is a concept that is holding us back.

I believe that we should treat every other road user with caution (bordering on suspicion) but feel that anything much more than that is simply perpetuating the 'us versus them' mentality.

We need to take whatever steps we can to engender a sense of harmonic co-existance.

We won't get that by constantly refering to them as "fucking cagers".

[Milts]

So Katman, you are against the perceived majority when they refuse to accept personal responsibility and blame others for every accident.

Now, you are against the perceived majority when they say to treat every other road user as a threat.

Do you just enjoy being argumentative?

[Katman]

Do you just enjoy being argumentative?

How about if you re-read the post and try to understand the words in it, instead of just reading it as an argument?

[Milts]

I can understand what you're saying, and you may have a good point. However it seems that you are in constant opposition to nearly all other users, regardless of which thread you're posting in.

[Katman]

I can understand what you're saying, and you may have a good point.

Well there's progress.


However it seems that you are in constant opposition to nearly all other users, regardless of which thread you're posting in.

So?

[JudaBaker]

I believe that we should treat every other road user with caution (bordering on suspicion) but feel that anything much more than that is simply perpetuating the 'us versus them' mentality.

We need to take whatever steps we can to engender a sense of harmonic co-existance.

We won't get that by constantly refering to them as "fucking cagers".

Yes, because a car actually has just as much of a right to be on the road as a bike does, believe it or not.. (It seems alot of people don't)

I have for the most part found car drivers to be respectful and they normally give me more unused road space between us than I would normally get when driving a car myself. I have even had cars wait to make sure what direction I am travelling through an intersection after forgetting to turn the indicator off. The problem is that you will get idiots and morons on the road regardless of their preferred mode of transport, and more cars equals more idiots driving them, the type of idiot that will pull in front of anything, bike or not.

[p.dath]

I actually wonder whether this "treat every car driver as though they're trying to kill you" is a concept that is holding us back.

I agree. I think living with the perception that everyone is trying to kill you on the road is a little psychotic.

It's simple. There are risks on the road. You have to learn to recognise them. You have to learn to mitigate them.

And in case it isn't obvious - the same thing applies to most things in your life. Everything carries a risk. You need to recognise them, and mitigate them. Doesn't mean you should avoid life or change your entire lifestyle. I think they call it "life experience". :)

[Old Steve]

But don't forget to wear earplugs - otherwise you'll become a deaf old man.

What was that you said? Too late, I already am. I need loud pipes so I can tell if my engine is running or if I've stalled at an intersection - again.

[insane1]

loud pipes do make a diffrence the more you can make yourself seen+heard the better.

[Kickaha]

loud pipes do make a diffrence the more you can make yourself seen+heard the better.


I ride a Bevel drive Ducati with Conti pipes and they aren't exactly quiet and I notice no difference at all in traffic

In the several company cars and utes I have had with the windows up and radio at a moderate level I have not heard any bike until it is pulling alongside no matter what pipes it has on whether on the open road or around town (hearing is checked annually)

LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVE in my opinion is nothing more than good marketing and I doubt can really be proved either way

[imdying]

In the several company cars and utes I have had with the windows up and radio at a moderate level I have not heard any bike until it is pulling alongside no matter what pipes it has on whether on the open road or around town (hearing is checked annually)Totally agree. People can run loud pipes if they like, makes no difference to me, but I wish they wouldn't fool themselves into thinking it's helping them be noticed in traffic.

[MIXONE]

I ride a Bevel drive Ducati with Conti pipes and they aren't exactly quiet and I notice no difference at all in traffic

In the several company cars and utes I have had with the windows up and radio at a moderate level I have not heard any bike until it is pulling alongside no matter what pipes it has on whether on the open road or around town (hearing is checked annually)

LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVE in my opinion is nothing more than good marketing and I doubt can really be proved either way
Totally disagree.I ride a belt drive ducati with loud pipes and notice that traffic tend to give me more room because they hear me coming.Also the traffic lights at work malfunctioned the other day sticking on green for both up and down traffic.One of my workmates was coming down the ramp in his car as I was coming up.He heard me long before seeing me and stopped rather then continuing and nailing me on the next corner.

[p.dath]

My bike dosen't have a load exhaust, so I can't speak out of personal experience. But here are my thoughts anyway.

You have 5 senses. That means you have 5 ways to be able to "stimulate" another road user into noticing you.

Hearing is a sense. Load pipes is a way to stimulate that sense (so is a horn ...). Sure not all road users will hear you because of there car stereo or what ever - but making no noise is guaranteed not to stiumulate their audible sense.

So it seems very reasonable that loud pipes will have more of an impact in getting you noticed as opposed to making no noise at all.


Have you seen the issue with electric cars and pedestrains stepping out in front of them because there didn't "hear" the car? They are looking at regulating that electric cars make a noise like petrol cars to prevent these stupid mistakes.

[Kickaha]

Totally disagree.I ride a belt drive ducati with loud pipes and notice that traffic tend to give me more room because they hear me coming.Also the traffic lights at work malfunctioned the other day sticking on green for both up and down traffic.One of my workmates was coming down the ramp in his car as I was coming up.He heard me long before seeing me and stopped rather then continuing and nailing me on the next corner.


How can anyone ever know they were heard rather than seen by all these people giving them more room?

I see them several car lengths away, I don't hear any of them until they are pulling alongside no matter what brand and type of bike and exhaust

[caseye]

Sorry kat and p.dath but to treat any other road user as not a physco out to kill you as a bike rider is tantamount to suicide.
This does not mean you will become a physcotic wreck yourself it simply means YOu look out for all of them, all the time.
I'm not somoene who pathologically hates car/truck drivers just because they drive instead of ride, but treat em both with kid gloves and be prepared for anything from them , Oh Yes.
I know what you are both saying, but it is only allowing for the LOWEST COMMON Denominator and quite frankly I'm sick of being treated this way by Govt agencies, Police and anyone else who sudenly beciomes someone with power.

[p.dath]

Sorry kat and p.dath but to treat any other road user as not a physco out to kill you as a bike rider is tantamount to suicide.

Using my own mantra - that's a risk I'm prepared to accept. :lol:

[caseye]

Using my own mantra - that's a risk I'm prepared to accept. :lol:

Good luck my friend, and yes I do count you as one.You can't possibly tell me that you don't see everyone around you and assess ahead of time what they're going to do next.Naturally I'm talking about any and all motorists, not just car users.
Risk is relevant, please stay alert when riding around cars/cages and not being on full alert all the time they are there.Thats when, "they" will Getcha!

[Katman]

Sorry kat and p.dath but to treat any other road user as not a physco out to kill you as a bike rider is tantamount to suicide.


I'm quite capable of surviving simply by treating every car driver with caution.

Seeing every car driver as "out to kill you" is bordering on psychosis.

[Old Steve]

I drilled the back baffles out of my exhausts the evening of this incident, below:

Coming home from work in my first week of riding a bike, down Chapel St in Tauranga, towards the lights at the bottom of the hill, I'm in the right hand lane right beside the open driver's window of a Nissan Cefiro boy racer in the left hand lane. Out of the corner of my eye I saw his hands move on the steering wheel and he just pulled right into my space, I braked and pulled right into the right hand turn lane, he never saw me.

He had to stop at the red light under the bridge so I wheeled up beside him and asked what he didn't see, my fluoro jacket, my largest 250 cruiser, my headlight on high beam. He said, "I looked in the mirror and you weren't there." He never turned his head before he pulled into my lane. I lectured him on the need to look over your shoulder before changing direction, and suggested that his parents got married.

If my bike had been making the noise it makes now, he'd have known I was there.

Now I'm more careful about where I ride in relationship to other vehicles, luckily I got the chance to learn from that experience. If I hadn't seen his hands turn the wheel I could have been another one of the ACC's statistics.

[Kickaha]

If my bike had been making the noise it makes now, he'd have known I was there.


It would be a huge mistake to assume that

[scumdog]

It would be a huge mistake to assume that

Possibly a fatal one....