Charity status

[p.dath]

I see the Charities Commission was been investigating many charities of late, and has recently de-listed quite a few such as Greenpeace, New Zealand Computer Society, Team New Zealand, and The National Council of Woman.

These organisations want to be a registered charity so they don't have to pay tax. I see several of them have initiated high court action trying to keep their status.

I feel a charity should help benefit those people who otherwise can not provide adequately care for themselves, such as the aged, the homeless, the sick, those affected by "acts of god" like floods, volcanoes, hurricanes, etc. You know - people really in need of a helping hand from someone else.

I can also accept those organisations who exist for the greater public good - but not a narrow focus (like Greenpeace). To me a charitable organisation should symbolise "giving" without expectation of "reward". They should not profit from their own activities. They should not have highly paid individuals. In fact I think payments should only be made to reasonably compensate for expenses incurred.
The problem is the definition of "greater good" is so open to interpretation. I think the potential for abuse (and abuse that is already happening) is so great that perhaps it needs to be dropped.

Remember "any" organisation can apply to the IRD to make a single specific activity tax free - such as a community project. The charitable status just bypasses this making everything tax free.

I don't think political lobbyists (like Greenpeace) should be a registered charity. They serve a very narrow focus.

Here is a bigger call. I think every sports organisation that has professionally paid players should not be registered as a charity. That fails my personal "profiting" rule.


So what do you think a "charity" is? Do you think we have too many "charities" (25,000 at the moment)? Should we scrap those charities that don't assist those in immediate need - and make them apply to the IRD for specific charitable projects they perform?

[MIXONE]

To me a charity is a like minded group of people doing things for the betterment of the community or members thereof.Not a group who stand to profit or improve their own situatiion.

[Dave Lobster]

Not a group who stand to profit or improve their own situatiion.

That'll be every religion out then :)

Yay :)

[kevie]

Should The Order Of St John be a charity still?

They say they work for the needy .... but ... if a person is unwell and someone calls them an ambulance and the patient cant afford to pay for it, they place it in the hands of Bay Collection ....... THIS action has stopped myself and many of my friends from donating to them. If the comunity is supporting them as a charity, should they be putting same people group in the hands of a collection agency (I was a long term volunteer with this ambulance service and they do an awesome job)

The other group is the SPCA, I dropped off a stray kitten (not mine) to the local branch and was made to pay them $10 before they would accept the kitten, claiming it was a voluntary donation BUT if I dont pay it they wont take the animal ... this I said, isnt a donation .... its a fee .. and SPCA allegedly has a huge sum on money invested, if they are a charity .... should they be making a profit that can be seen as excessive?

[Mully]

Should The Order Of St John be a charity still?

I have an issue with St John not being fully Government funded. The fact that they have to hang around on street corners with buckets seeking cash is laughable, IMHO. As for the debt collection thing, I see their point. They have to recover costs not covered by ACC - if you have to pay and Joe Bloggs says he can't afford to pay, how is that fair?



The other group is the SPCA, I dropped off a stray kitten (not mine) to the local branch and was made to pay them $10 before they would accept the kitten, claiming it was a voluntary donation BUT if I dont pay it they wont take the animal ... this I said, isnt a donation .... its a fee .. and SPCA allegedly has a huge sum on money invested, if they are a charity .... should they be making a profit that can be seen as excessive?

Shoulda just walked out and left the kitten there.

We stopped donating to the SPCA some time ago. Which is a shame, but with our limited donation dollars, we have the right to pick who we give it to.

[imdying]

I have an issue with St John not being fully Government funded. The fact that they have to hang around on street corners with buckets seeking cash is laughable, IMHO.Totally agree, we all lean on them, I don't see them as being any different to the Police in terms of how they should be funded.

[Dave Lobster]

Which begs the question... why aren't they government funded like the police?

[imdying]

Maybe some sort of historical precedent that has just continued on?

[Dave Lobster]

Maybe some sort of historical precedent that has just continued on?

Like ACC?:shit:

[Mully]

Which begs the question... why aren't they government funded like the police?

I don't know if they are anywhere else - i.e. I don't know how St John is funded in England.

And if that's the way they were set up, it might have just continued on like that.

[Dave Lobster]

I don't know if they are anywhere else - i.e. I don't know how St John is funded in England.


St John Ambulance in England is a voluntary organisation that sits at events and stuff, dabbing the heads of people that faint.

There's a proper ambulance service that is government funded in the same way the Police and Fire service is.

[Mully]

St John Ambulance in England is a voluntary organisation that sits at events and stuff, dabbing the heads of people that faint.

There's a proper ambulance service that is government funded in the same way the Police and Fire service is.

Oh. Well, there ya go.

[SS90]

Not to take away from the hard working St John's workers, It is my experience that St John's is "Top Heavy", with many of the senior staff members taking home big perks, and doing F all.

That's my understanding anyway.

[Dave Lobster]

Not to take away from the hard working St John's workers, It is my experience that St John's is "Top Heavy", with many of the senior staff members taking home big perks, and doing F all.

That's my understanding anyway.

It's as though they're owned by the public already ;)

[HenryDorsetCase]

My limited recollection of this is that what constitutes a "charity" was originally codified in England by Elizabeth 1. There were four categories (again, IIRC) and those four categories are what our new Act is based on. And the reason these have been de-registered is that their trust deeds are too narrowly drafted I think.

[rustic101]

I see several of them have initiated high court action trying to keep their status.

If they can afford to pay a lawyer to take High Court action they can afford to pay tax IMO

[rustic101]

I have an issue with St John not being fully Government funded.

Only 93% of their and Wellington Free Ambulance is emergency work. The remainder is Patient Transport etc.

That aside, I believe their Communication Centres and Essential Service should be Govt Funded.

To take it a step further I personally believe NZ should have a Singe Call Answering Point, Police, Fire Ambulance, RCC, Maritime, SAR etc. Currently only Police and Fire are co-located. The cost savings and response time around Public safety would be dramatically improved.

[Mully]

Only 93% of their and Wellington Free Ambulance is emergency work. The remainder is Patient Transport etc.

That aside, I believe their Communication Centres and Essential Service should be Govt Funded.

To take it a step further I personally believe NZ should have a Singe Call Answering Point, Police, Fire Ambulance, RCC, Maritime, SAR etc. Currently only Police and Fire are co-located. The cost savings and response time around Public safety would be dramatically improved.

Only 93%??

I suppose if you look at the fact they have to bill ACC for some, plus DHBs for others, then private individuals for some, means that simply Govt funding the whole shebang would probably be easier. And probably involve fewer staff who weren't frontline.

[kevie]

I agree that they should be fully funded ..... but then .... National would have sold it LOL
I remember the times of carrying them there buckets around.
My point wasnt that the baycollection thing is totally wrong .. the point it it cant be doing them any good, one station I was with in a small town, if a local was unable to pay the division covered them from community donations.... the positive in this was it was considered the highest donation/support station in NZ to a point it had more up to date gear than the nearby big city LSU unit (Life Support Unit) My thoughts are if they are hard on the donation giving comunity then they decrease the donations and so the spiral starts. My biggest concern with NZs ambulance service is the singe crewing of the trucks. I was at a MVC recently as first on scene, 1 serious patient and one in deep shock... a single crewed ambulance arrived .... I sort of told him how f'n stupid it was, but I think the reason for that is Political Correctness and the stricter conditions and rules that are imposed on the service, making staffing and service more and more dificult....... I quit ambulance because of the PC garbage that was creaping in.

[scissorhands]

The National Party need to change their name to the revenue gathering party.

My view is that many government departments, local councils, businesses, charities and organisations are run with very low efficiency and much corruption.

The very way in which we live is extremely inefficient.

Mowing lawns, painting exteriors, replacing asphalt roads, servicing ICE (internal combustion engines) and all the rest of the pointless shit could be replaced with much better ways of living.

The keeping of pets will one day be a thing of the past. Injuries from sport, illness from poor lifestyles, will one day be a thing of the past.

Beam me up Scotty, Spock is having a hissy fit

[Dave Lobster]

What??????


The National Party need to change their name to the revenue gathering party.

My view is that many government departments, local councils, businesses, charities and organisations are run with very low efficiency and much corruption.

The very way in which we live is extremely inefficient.

Mowing lawns, painting exteriors, replacing asphalt roads, servicing ICE (internal combustion engines) and all the rest of the pointless shit could be replaced with much better ways of living.

The keeping of pets will one day be a thing of the past. Injuries from sport, illness from poor lifestyles, will one day be a thing of the past.

Beam me up Scotty, Spock is having a hissy fit

[Pixie]

I see the Charities Commission was been investigating many charities of late, and has recently de-listed quite a few such as Greenpeace, New Zealand Computer Society, Team New Zealand, and The National Council of Woman.



I'm pleased to see that Greenpeace International Corporation has been delisted.The authorities should also investigate how a multinational like greenpeace can get so many stupid hippies to work for them for no pay.

I guess I answered my own question

[Forest]

Have you ever wondered why there is so much Sanitarium advertising on TV?

The Sanitarium company is a registered charity that is wholly owned and administered by the Seventh-day Adventist church. Consequently it pays no company taxes (and has a shit-load of cash to spend on TV advertising).

http://www.sanitarium.com.au/about-us/company-statement/sanitarium-charitable-purposes

[p.dath]

Have you ever wondered why there is so much Sanitarium advertising on TV?

The Sanitarium company is a registered charity that is wholly owned and administered by the Seventh-day Adventist church. Consequently it pays no company taxes (and has a shit-load of cash to spend on TV advertising).

http://www.sanitarium.com.au/about-us/company-statement/sanitarium-charitable-purposes

If he church is going to own commercial organisations that deliver profits then they should be taxed and have their charitable status removed. If they are happy to get rid of those commcercial profiting generating centres, and they help those less fortunate, then I think they should be able to keep it.

But now you have made me think of another practice done by many churches - that of investing in land and buildings which are commercially leased out. Fine if it is for church purposes - not fine if being leased to commercial organisations for a profit.