Do you recommend Draggin Jeans? [Archive]

j_redley

11th July 2010, 12:59

Lurch

11th July 2010, 13:02

If you like having knees that bend (in the right direction), get something with armor in them.

Nasty

11th July 2010, 13:03

Depends on the other gear you have. I have draggins and love em .. but saying that I also have leathers and codura.

Lurch

11th July 2010, 13:03

Incoming Quasievil post in 3... 2... 1....

j_redley

11th July 2010, 13:09

Depends on the other gear you have. I have draggins and love em .. but saying that I also have leathers and codura.

I had a Cordura jacket which got sold when I hit the tarmac last time, now I've got a leather jacket, leather gloves and helmet. I like the fact with Draggin that I can wear them when I get off the bike, but also want to make sure if I go for a ride through to Palmy or Taupo, that I'm gonna be warm enough and not left half naked if I come off.

Motu

11th July 2010, 13:12

Don't anyone dare post anything positive about Draggins - Quasi will shoot you down in flames.Apparently the only products save to ride a bike in are made by quasi....

Lurch

11th July 2010, 13:19

j_redley

11th July 2010, 13:24

It's all about comprimise, you're going to have to decide what's most important for you as a rider. Safety or convenience. If it's safety then get a pair of leather, armored pants. If it's convenience, get the draggins. If like me you want a bit of both just wear your normal jeans under a pair of cordura pants.

Next up, you need to decide if you like your ankle bones the way they are or not.

I've been wearing my steel-toe work boots up until now which has been fine, though my toes end up a little num despite the woollen socks. I like safety, but arn't draggins supposed to be pretty good like that?

p.dath

11th July 2010, 13:24

My personal opinion j_redley is that there is no perfect option for everyone. People ride in different environments at different speeds in different ways. So what you need to do is decide what you are worried about happening, and then mitigate that risk.

The two primary risks you need to consider are abrasion and impacts. You also need to consider how likely the gear you have is to remain in the location you want to protect during an accident. For example, Kevlar pajama's might offer good abrasion resistance, but are highly likely to travel up your legs during a slide allowing the skin to be ripped off your legs.

So Draggin jeans offer abrasion resistance for your arse (and knees?). If you are only worried about protecting against perfect slides like this then they are fine. If you are worried about a rolling slide then they might not be your first option. If you are worried about hitting a curb on the side of a road, a tree at the end of your slide, a concrete median strip, etc, then they aren't going to help much - and you'll need to consider adding something to help with impacts, or get gear that can handle impacts.

Ignoring safety there are side issues to think about like comfort. Will you only be riding in fine weather, or are you prepared to accept getting caught in the odd shower? Will you be riding in a lot of heat (aka summer only, which jeans are good for)? Will you be doing long rides and need to consider thermal insulation?

Anyway the point is, decide what kind of accidents you want to protect against, and choose gear that offers protection for those cases.

j_redley

11th July 2010, 13:32

I prefer to ride in fine weather, though I have been caught in the odd shower. Also, Wanganui to Taupo= relativly long ride?

sinned

11th July 2010, 13:35

Wrong time of the year to be thinking of jeans - unless they are on special. Even then - I have em and seldom wear them as they just do not provide enough protection. l

Nasty

11th July 2010, 13:40

I've been wearing my steel-toe work boots up until now which has been fine, though my toes end up a little num despite the woollen socks. I like safety, but arn't draggins supposed to be pretty good like that?

Ummmm not really. They do stop some of the pain .. but definately better with other pants if you are looking for safety. Draggins do rip but the kevlar doesn't ... they can be repaired - but they offer no armour, no padding and no warmth!

HappyGOriding

11th July 2010, 14:08

I have some jeans with kevlar in them (cant remember brand not draggins) bought them in oz they also have removable knee pads (which is I bought them) as well as side an ass reinforcement they fit good and are great for the short summer rides plus I have cordura wet weather pants with similar protection but at the mo I am currently trying to save for a pair of leather pants as personally I reckon they offer the best protection. As p.dath says it comes down to what you want them to do for you.

Also suggest you ditch the steelcaps and get yourself some proper motorcycle boots. Used to do the same until recently purchased myself some Dririder boots and was surprised how much of a difference they made. No cold toes, comfortable as, instantly felt the difference of ankle protection. Worth looking at if you are worried about safety

p.dath

11th July 2010, 14:52

I've been wearing my steel-toe work boots up until now which has been fine...

Motorcycle gear doesn't usually feature steel anything. Steel gets very hot when you you slide it along tar seal. Think ouch.

Jantar

11th July 2010, 15:03

If you are only going to get a single type of protective trousers then make them leather.

I have leather trousers and leather jacket for general use, but I also have a cordura jacket as a spare or for very hot weather riding, and 3 pairs of kevlar jeans (1 Technic and 2 Hardas) for summer use or short rides.

Overall, nothing is as good as leather.

j_redley

11th July 2010, 15:03

Motorcycle gear doesn't usually feature steel anything. Steel gets very hot when you you slide it along tar seal. Think ouch.

I know, but its that or be one of those fucktards out there who I see in barefeet and jandals. Problem with bike gear is its so damn expensive, and whilst I'd love to be able to say "safety doesn't have a price limit" my wallet says the exact opposite.

oldrider

11th July 2010, 15:56

pc220

11th July 2010, 16:30

I know, but its that or be one of those fucktards out there who I see in barefeet and jandals. Problem with bike gear is its so damn expensive, and whilst I'd love to be able to say "safety doesn't have a price limit" my wallet says the exact opposite.

Buy the best you can afford. If like me that means cheap codura off the interwebby so be it. Anything is surely better than nothing.

IdunBrokdItAgin

11th July 2010, 17:07

Yup, would definitely recommend draggin jeans. But definately not as your only set of riding pants.

Also, they do not have knee armour built in as standard - they protect from sliding only. I had an off in mine and no skin lost but my frigging knees hurt afterwards.

However, you can add these little beauties if you want to up the protection: http://www.motomail.co.nz/eStore/Style/DJARKNEEG.aspx

I've got a pair of draggins which I commute in, I add knee protectors if I'm going for a bit of a blat at the weekend. If I'm doing a longer ride or there is a decent chance of rain then I put on my waterproof cordura pants.

Plus I am keeping an eye out for a pair of decent leather pants.

The moral of the story is - that there is no perfect all round set of pants.

Go with something cheap, protective and waterproof for starters (cordura) then add to your gear over time/ when your wallet allows you to (expand to kevlar jeans or leather).

HappyGOriding

11th July 2010, 17:10

I know, but its that or be one of those fucktards out there who I see in barefeet and jandals. Problem with bike gear is its so damn expensive, and whilst I'd love to be able to say "safety doesn't have a price limit" my wallet says the exact opposite.

My Dririder boots only cost me $210 probably at the cheaper end of the scale but way safer and more protection than plain old steelcapped workboots

slowpoke

11th July 2010, 17:59

As with most things you get what you pay for and Draggin's are cheap (comparatively). I've put draggin's to the test and have the scars to prove it. They're better than jeans but not by much.

Rogue Rider

11th July 2010, 17:59

It's fair to say friction, which is the primary action in an accident, is what causes the most damage to gear. What you hit at the end is what causes the most pain.......
I have Draggin jeans. I use them in the summer mostly, usually due to the heat and the fact that they are cargo style which is also a casual where option if going out socially.
For riding trips and excursions though, I only where leathers. They have some armour in there, and they provide a bit more protection and give with comfort and support. They tend to hold up better and not ride up like the denim and kevlar options.
Draggins are a good idea, certainly alot better than wearing normal jeans, thats for sure. However, for the price, you'll get a much better set of leather trou as well.

dangerous

11th July 2010, 18:19

Right, I'm just getting back into biking with my new Gixxer 250 being a small upgrade from the KR150 I had a couple years back. What put me off riding for a while was my lack of safety gear then, and how easy my standard jeans got sliced into shreads when I hit the tarmac. I've got a leather jacket, as well as gloves and I'm wondering since the price difference isn't too great between the Draggin CE jeans and some leathers, which you riders recommend for a guy who wants to go out for a quick blast in the hills on the weekend, but also a few longer rides when the mood strikes.

Should I bite the bullet and look at leather pants, or are the draggin jeans actually as good as they say?
Not read past the 1st thread so tough if its been said already ;) LEATHER... its all I can say, I have seen dragons go down and they did sfa to protect, in fact it was the guys leather wallet that saved him (jeans wore through to wallet)
If arseing up was like the add for the jeans then sweet, so unless ya going to be draged on ya arse... LEATHER

Moki

11th July 2010, 22:21

Leather. And no, Draggin's aren't in the same league as good quality, thick leather.

slowpoke

12th July 2010, 10:30

I have seen dragons go down and they did sfa to protect, in fact it was the guys leather wallet that saved him (jeans wore through to wallet)

On the money( wallet?) mate, it was only my thick leather belt that saved my hip from more serious damage. Still wore through the pants below it though, even at just 40kph.

j_redley

12th July 2010, 18:47

wingnutt

12th July 2010, 19:18

Yeh I recommend draggin jeans/pants, the pants may be warmer than the jeans. met a bloke who had an off, wearing draggin jeans, leather top, boots, gloves etc, he said about $1000 worth, nothing broken, but interestingly, he was scratched around a bit where the Kevlar ended, and the top of his boots stopped on his legs,

Scratched and bruised around a bit on his arms etc under his leathers, but all the gear had done a great job, and as he said, he cursed when he spent that amount of money, but bloody glad he did.

hellokitty

12th July 2010, 19:21

Yeah, I'm looking for some cheapish leathers or riding pants in my size on trademe, unfortunatly boots and winter gloves will have to wait. I have the experiance on my poor knee which shoes normal jeans are no good.

get heated hand grips instead of winter gloves - I rode in the frost yesterday and I put my winter liners on under my gloves and couldn't feel a thing so took them off and rode with my normal gloves and the heated grips turned right up.

Go for second hand leathers - you might be lucky and find someone like me who bought leathers when I was underweight and going to the gym twice a day, and now that I am happy and have calmed down, can't get anywhere near the damn things.

crystalball

12th July 2010, 20:41

heya bud, good idea to keep eye on trademe as can pick up good gear. i got these leather pants for $68 and they fit real good and have knee armor. they are my favorite riding pants :scooter:

Quasievil

12th July 2010, 20:44

heya bud, good idea to keep eye on trademe as can pick up good gear. i got these leather pants for $68 and they fit real good and have knee armor. they are my favorite riding pants :scooter:

Bound to be brilliant protection at $68 dude

crystalball

12th July 2010, 20:45

Bound to be brilliant protection at $68 dude

year i know im soo happy.

Banditbandit

13th July 2010, 12:47

Chuck in my 2 cents worth (oh, sorry, 2 cents doesn't exist any more ...)

I have leather, cordura with armour, and I sometimes ride in denim jeans. I don't own draggin or other kevlar jeans - can't see the point. I only ride in denim jeans short distances, and on hot days - and never without gloves and jacket. For longer distance you can't beat leather ... the warmth alone is worth it. And I ride in really cold weather with track-pants under my leather pants.

I've bounced down the road wearing just about anything (including a pair of shorts and nothing else ... it was very low speed off a Yamie RD350 sometime in the early 1980s I think) ... I will admit to once riding naked (don't recommend it - if you think its hard to drain the bladder on a cold day imagine after you've been riding naked !!!) lucky I didn't fall off that time ... and I've walked away every time (well, limped away a couple of times) ... Not any more. Now I always ride in helmet, cordura or leather jacket and pants .. gloves, boots ... my current leathers have hit the road twice (last time in 1990 - so they are well used) and are still useable. I doubt cordura or kevlar jeans would do the same - fall off and throw it away stuff ..

I mix and match for the weather and distance riding. My cordura pants will fit over jeans and over my leather pants for really bad weather ... my cordura jacket (with inner removed) will fit over my leather jacket as well. And well-looked after leathers can be fairly waterproof too. I rode from Manfield to Napier in the rain with a cordura jacket and leather pants - the pants were only slightly damp when I got home. I treat them with warm beeswax, let that soak in, then use shoe polish.

If you can only purchase one pair of pants, go for leathers. The warmth alone is worth it. And I believe they will save your skin from more than cordura or kevlar jeans. You can by a cheap pair of nylon overpants from the warehouse or somewhere to pull over your leathers if it's wet.

wibble

15th July 2010, 12:29

I think they have a great place in any "motorcyclists" wardrobe, I like to wear them when I am going to an event where I may then spend most of the day walking around or sitting around in thre sun, such as the races or a concert or something. But they are NOT warm, so no replacement for cordura on a wet day and not a patch on a pair of leather jeans.

So my opinion, they are a nice to have, much better than wearing just levis, but for my money if your going to buy only one pair of pants make them leather or cordura. leather is much more comfortable to wear all day but wont keep you dry when it rains.

So this is my third pair of motorcycle pants, for me it goes with my third pair of motorcycle boots, prexport ankle boots that are nice for walking in, but perhaps i spend way to much money on bike clothes.. I know my wife thinks so.

One last point i find the kevlar in the dragging jeans is very itchy so i always wear cotton long johns under them.

Lurch

15th July 2010, 13:26

year i know im soo happy.

.......wooosh...........

But I can imagine that there are a lot of 'leathers' out there that fall below even the meagre amount of protection the Draggin's provide.

rastuscat

15th July 2010, 16:09

I know, but its that or be one of those fucktards out there who I see in barefeet and jandals. Problem with bike gear is its so damn expensive, and whilst I'd love to be able to say "safety doesn't have a price limit" my wallet says the exact opposite.

Slid a short distance under the bike on Tuesday after it slipped out from under me under acceleration on a sharp turn. My fault totally.

The TCX boots I had on totally saved my right ankle. They are a copy of BMW Santiago boots. They have minor scrapes, but saved me from a world of hurt. The 350kg bike on top of my ankle during the slide would have minced me otherwise

Get the best gear you can afford. Period.

rastuscat

15th July 2010, 16:55

My Dririder boots only cost me $210 probably at the cheaper end of the scale but way safer and more protection than plain old steelcapped workboots

Boots just HAVE to have proper ankle protection. Work boots are often about impact on toes, and bugger all about ankles.

j_redley

15th July 2010, 18:24

davereid

15th July 2010, 18:39

Unfortunatly about the best I can afford for now is a $40 pair of Draggin's which I've just purchased from Trademe. Planning on winning the lotto this weekend, so as well as a new bike, a full leather purchase will be in order. Until then, workboots and my thermal's under the draggins will have to suffice.

If you weren't spending $500 on compliance you would be able to afford a good set of cordura and upgrade the workboots to the type with high sides......

j_redley

15th July 2010, 19:10

If you weren't spending $500 on compliance you would be able to afford a good set of cordura and upgrade the workboots to the type with high sides......

If I wasn't spending $500 on compliance I doubt I would have found a similar bike for $450 dollars, which again is what I can afford to be able to get on a bike in the next decade.

HenryDorsetCase

15th July 2010, 22:37

.......wooosh...........

But I can imagine that there are a lot of 'leathers' out there that fall below even the meagre amount of protection the Draggin's provide.

sorry did you say something? I am completely mesmerised by your avatar.

HenryDorsetCase

15th July 2010, 22:45

Slid a short distance under the bike on Tuesday after it slipped out from under me under acceleration on a sharp turn. My fault totally.

The TCX boots I had on totally saved my right ankle. They are a copy of BMW Santiago boots. They have minor scrapes, but saved me from a world of hurt. The 350kg bike on top of my ankle during the slide would have minced me otherwise

Get the best gear you can afford. Period.

Fuck yeah. I hit some diesel on a roundabout a few years ago and slid for a short way on my right forearm, hip and with the bike on my foot. I had jeans on too (levis no kevlar). when I stopped I thought "fuck, this is going to hurt". But the only damage was some scuffing on my leather jacket, a bruise and graze on my hip and my boot being completely worn thru at the ankle. Ive always thought that without that protection, that would have been my ankle bone stopping my engine cases from getting all scuffed up. I wear boots, gloves helmet jacket every time now.

I ride in Draggins a bit: last summer I was a bit overweight and (ahem) couldnt get into my leather pants very comfortably so wore the Draggins more than I used to. I think they have a place for summer riding, for short hops, or round town if you are going somewhere apart from a fetish bar. All the boys at the fetish bar LOVE the leather pants, trust me on this.

But as an only option? not so much.

Quasievil

16th July 2010, 08:25

I do wear Denium on the bike , but only around town. When I looked into it I thought the Draggins where all marketing and little substance (personally) I brought a pair of Sartso jeans from the below link.

I find them better, so check them out if your in the market.
(no I have no interest in this company)

http://www.kiwimotoguy.co.nz/
http://www.kiwimotogirl.co.nz/

hellokitty

17th July 2010, 15:56

just borrow some money and buy leathers........ I know people that don't ride think it is too much to spend, but it pays for itself if you crash. I have a big
graze on the elbow of my leather jacket from coming off and it would have been so bad if I hadn't been wearing the proper gear.

Jackal

18th July 2010, 17:49

Was in Chch yesterday and did the usual bike shop loop. Out of interest I was looking at kevlar jeans for next summer and ended buying a pair of leather pants from Rolling Thunder for $139.00. They seemed decent enough and wore them today for a quick blat on the Guzzi and they were comfortable. Thats almost half the price of draggins!!!!! Will give me a hellava lot more protection than jeans and Mrs Jackal reakons my arse looks good in them as well which is an added bonus. (The draggins were baggy in that department)

j_redley

19th July 2010, 20:52

That is pretty cheap, and leathers are something I'l be looking into. First priority is to get the bike going and get out on it first though.

T.W.R

20th July 2010, 08:26

What put me off riding for a while was my lack of safety gear then, and how easy my standard jeans got sliced into shreads when I hit the tarmac.

I had a Cordura jacket which got sold when I hit the tarmac last time.

That was a wee while ago :yes:

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/46721-First-bin-today-(26-March)?p=988336#post988336

I'm wondering since the price difference isn't too great between the Draggin CE jeans and some leathers, which you riders recommend for a guy who wants to go out for a quick blast in the hills on the weekend, but also a few longer rides when the mood strikes.

Should I bite the bullet and look at leather pants, or are the draggin jeans actually as good as they say?

Most importantly remember it isn't a fashion parade out on a bike and in the long run jeans are just jeans no more no less and will still get munted just as quickly as a pair of levis if you go for a slide.
Progress your way to a GOOD quality kit of apparell or if fortune favours you in the future get a set made to measure. The common off the shelf gear is all generic one size fits all just doesn't cut in the long run for total comfort & correctly located areas of armour.
When you can afford it buy the best you can get that suits your body not what catches your eye.
Leather has stood the test of time & will continue to do so while other materials have come & gone, and leather was set as the bench mark when the majority of roads travelled were shingle.

jack_hamma

20th July 2010, 10:23

Have a pair, are good etc, only wear though in town really not on the open road. Good for just nipping to the shops but don't feel so safe at 100k's plus cause there's no knee armor etc and still really jeans at the end of the day and they not going to slide like leather :)

Quasievil

20th July 2010, 10:43

Dont start bashing me up people for giving advise, no brands are being bashed here.

Fact is and you should be aware of it, is that not all leather is good leather, there are a few grades and types being sold in the NZ market which is NOT so good.
I have had a customer come see me not to long ago who wanted pants to go with his leather jacket he just brought, sadly the leather jacket was reconstructed leather, fibre leather.......i.e leather bits left over ground down and re formed with glue, sad huh. but "it was a good deal" (really mate)
Also cheaper products you may find will likely have been treated with Non skin safe chemicals cheap tannery processes, this will give you a rash particularly in summer when you sweat a bit.

So do your homework and remember the golden rule, you get what you pay for and if its new and its cheap its likely crap.

reputable brands often have good clearance sales so hook into these if you see them.

ital916

20th July 2010, 16:08

Motorcycle gear doesn't usually feature steel anything. Steel gets very hot when you you slide it along tar seal. Think ouch.

Some motorcycle boots come with steel shank reinforced soles. They dont use steel caps as they crush down onto toes.

jack_hamma

20th July 2010, 16:19

Dainese Full Metal Pro Gloves..... oh it's titanium lol :)

p.dath

20th July 2010, 16:23

Fact is and you should be aware of it, is that not all leather is good leather, there are a few grades and types being sold in the NZ market which is NOT so good.

At the risk of hi-jacking the thread, are there any testing standards for leather motorcycle gear, like say SHARP or DOT for helmets? I see standards for impact protectors and the like (thank you Europe), but nothing for the leather itself (perhaps I have missed it)?

I'm not for regulating a standard for leather, but I wonder if there might be some room for some of voluntary industry grading, where the manufacturers can self grade, like DOT is done for Helmets?

This is way outside my area, so let me make some numbers up. Actual numbers not important.
Say fit a 50 grit sandpaper to a belt sander (something coarse like tar seal), apply 80kg of weight on belt sandpaper, and measure the number of seconds it takes to break through the leather. 1s bad. 4s good. 10s exceptional.
I like seconds, as it is something I can relate to.

6ft5

20th July 2010, 16:27

Ok, I came off a few years back now and was wearing a cordura jacket and draggin jeans. The jacket saved my arms and got torn a bit in the shoulder joins while i was skidding over the tarmack. My draggin jeans saved my legs and butt and as a result I had 2 small spots of skin missing on my wrist where the jacket was pushed up during the skid.

I now wear draggins all the time even in a more casual sense as they are comfortable. Make sure you get the right stuff, the ones with the kevlar on the inside that is.

My leathers are just sitting around waiting for a very long trip .. one of these days

Quasievil

20th July 2010, 16:58

p.dath

20th July 2010, 17:11

Wish there was dude, might get rid of some of these dodgey fuckers on the scene and there are heaps at the moment.
Its not just about leather tho, its about
leather/Stitching/Armour, predominantly anyway.

Measuring the protection of the combined product would be so much harder. At least having a comparitive measure for the base leather that the product is made from would give some indication of the overall product, in that a leather that wears through quickly is going to be poor protection no matter how it is manufactured into the final product.

Even just the word "leather" is a problem. It can come from several different animals, be made made, and come in different thicknesses. There is no way a consumer can determine how "good" that leather is.

scracha

20th July 2010, 17:17

At the risk of hi-jacking the thread, are there any testing standards for leather motorcycle gear, like say SHARP or DOT for helmets? I see standards for impact protectors and the like (thank you Europe), but nothing for the leather itself (perhaps I have missed it)?

AFAIK nope. Was a great magazine in blightly called "Ride" wot did semi scientific tests of bike stuff in conjunction with proper labs. Some of the PDF's of their product tests are here:-

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/Ride/

Say fit a 50 grit sandpaper to a belt sander (something coarse like tar seal), apply 80kg of weight on belt sandpaper, and measure the number of seconds it takes to break through the leather. 1s bad. 4s good. 10s exceptional.
I like seconds, as it is something I can relate to.
Kinda wot Ride magazine did.

You don't have to spend stupid money for reasonable protection. Best thing the instructors ever told me was to first spend my money on good all round protection. By that I mean don't go out and spend $800 on a helmet and then have no money left for decent gloves, jacket, boots and troosers. Bike shops often have damanged "seconds" or returns with some stiching missing or shit like that (as a Scotsman I got the girlfriend a cordura jacket, trousers, boots and gloves from Boyds stand at the fielddays for. $120 all in....30 minutes on the sewing machine and they're stronger than new). A much better idea than a lot of the $hit available on trademe.

A $100 Oxford helmet, $20 gloves, $50 cordura jacket, $80 second hand leather motorcycle trousers and a pair of army surplus boots will give you much better protection than the wax jacket wearing idiot with a 10 year old Arai helmet, fingerless gloves and the pair of designer leather trousers (a.k.a. SHITE) but don't be under any illusion that you'll be able to bounce off a car and slide along the road at 100kays and come out as well (ok...not as bad) as you would were you riding with higher priced gear. Ride according to what you're wearing....if you're in draggin jeans and ride hard out on the open road then you're a fuckin idiot.

BTW was advised that steel toe capped boots were to be avoided because of the risk of having your toes chopped off in the event of a nasty accident. However, upon reflection...if that much force was applied to my boots I'd rather have the toes slice off cleanly as it'd be less painful and there's a chance they could be reattached (no chance if they're squished). Good leather boots will offer at least some ankle/calf protection compared to shoes / sneakers.

Ratti

2nd August 2010, 19:06

I have to agree with the call for a NZ standard on gear. I dont have any affiliation to any brands in particular so Im not supporting anyone except us, the riders who are out there every day trusting our arses to this gear.

IM (not very) HO...there is some complete crap for sale and I would dearly love to see a NZ standard applied to riding gear. Not to make it compulsory to wear it, just have it available as a comparison. At the very least riders would be able to ask 'does it meet XYZ standard' and make a choice from there.

Quasievil

4th August 2010, 10:58

IM (not very) HO...there is some complete crap for sale and I would dearly love to see a NZ standard applied to riding gear.

here Here, only when I say it I get bagged lol

Number One

4th August 2010, 14:23

Dag nabbit man this could've been a poll!!!! Oh well opportunity lost...as for your comment below...

Should I bite the bullet and look at leather pants, or are the draggin jeans actually as good as they say?

If you got nothing else get the leather...especially if you plan to ride further than your letter box and for a time that extends beyond next week :)

Number One

4th August 2010, 14:27

Even just the word "leather" is a problem. It can come from several different animals, be made made, and come in different thicknesses. There is no way a consumer can determine how "good" that leather is.

I reckon! I found this little gem of a description on wiki the other day and had a retailer up about what they were saying their 'bonded leather was' and what infact is actually "IS"...

There are different types of bonded leather, but the type being used on upholstered furniture today is a polyurethane or vinyl product, backed with fabric and then a layer of latex or other material mixed with a small percentage of leather fibers in the product's backing material. The actual leather content of bonded leather upholstery is typically about 17%. None of it is contained in the surface of the bonded leather. The polyurethane surface is stamped to give it a leather-like texture.

Ratti

4th August 2010, 19:42

yup, I occasionaly get that rubbish over my bench. I refuse to fix it unless its a fashion garment and is only going to be used as a fashion garment.

All the leather I use for repairs is cut out of the hide by moi. Expensive, but what is the point of using substandard products?

Quasi-M, dear, I get bagged for daring to voice opinions too. Remember that dozy 'trader' a few weeks ago flogging rubbish pretend cordura? That was fun, but if we keep speaking up then maybe the message will get through. I figure if my opinion saves just one person from a preventable injury then its worth the bagging.

p.dath

5th August 2010, 08:08

All the leather I use for repairs is cut out of the hide by moi. Expensive, but what is the point of using substandard products?

I know very little about leather. But lets say you take five cows - would the leather be of the same quality from all the cows, or can it vary a lot?

If it varies a lot, how can you tell the hide your cutting up is that good?

Ratti

5th August 2010, 09:00

Quality is more about the thickness the leather is finished to and what part of the hide you use.
The area along the spine is more dense than the areas around the legs. thickness is measured in mm in NZ.
As a comparison, upholstery leather is usually about 1.8-2.2mm, fashion leather sits around 0.7 or less, riding leather I would suggest 1.2-1.7mm.
The advantage of having gear custom made here in NZ is that the maker can use the hide to best advantage. denser hide on high impact zones, softer hide on parts of your gear that are less likely to take a direct hit.

Please understand Im not dissing any mass produced brands available, just pointing out one advantage of truly customised gear.

It does make implementing a NZ Standard tricky as so many things need to be taken into account. As already mentioned this include thread type, stitch length, quality and type of closures, type of seam used as well as what part of the hide is used in what part of the garment.

I am of the opinion tho that NZS for textile gear would be more straightforward.

Genie

5th August 2010, 09:08

I have leather...awesome. Just bought me some Draggin Jeans for summer...might use them, might not. Won't have the same safety requirements that leather does, but then again, I'm not planning on sliding.

Number One

5th August 2010, 09:19

I'm not planning on sliding.

Therein lies the problem....no one plans to slide...you might half expect to on the track however when on the road it ain't all down to us and even if it were that wouldn't always be in our favour....

Now that I have had a few offs - and felt the pain through armoured race suits and unarmoured leather pants I just can't get my head around riding in anything less than my leather or armoured corduras - it just feels wrong to me. I get all self conscious and can't seem to relax properly. Poor old Draggin cargos - they were VERY comfy though :yes:

Genie

5th August 2010, 09:22

Which is why a may not wear them...I want as much protection between me and the nasty road as possible. Had an off years ago, only a scooter but, at 50K, the road rips your skin off rather well! OUCH.

Number One

5th August 2010, 09:30

the road rips your skin off rather well! OUCH.

And the bruises from banging the deck...produce great photos! Bloody roads aren't cushioned!!!! It's okay though - someone will be onto sorting that out soon enough anyway

p.dath

5th August 2010, 10:08

Quality is more about the thickness the leather is finished to and what part of the hide you use.
The area along the spine is more dense than the areas around the legs. thickness is measured in mm in NZ.
As a comparison, upholstery leather is usually about 1.8-2.2mm, fashion leather sits around 0.7 or less, riding leather I would suggest 1.2-1.7mm.

Ratti, I've searched high and low for this info, so maybe you might have it.

Do you have a chart showing how many seconds various thickness leather takes to wear through (aka, abrasion resistance)?

For example, how long does 1.7mm leather take to wear through against tar seal with an 80kg weight on it?

I'm sure someone has done some research on this. When you suggest 1.2mm to 1.7mm - how long does that take before the protection is gone? 4s? 8s?

Milts

5th August 2010, 19:08

There's some good info on that here:
http://www.rideforever.co.nz/gear/how-gear-works/

As an indication, 1.4mm cowhide of the type used in bike leathers lasts about 6 seconds. Regular denim jeans about half a second - next to useless.

And more around the site. Not extensive, but useful nonetheless.

IdunBrokdItAgin

5th August 2010, 19:48

p.dath

6th August 2010, 07:34

Just stumbled upon this video testing draggins from the MCN site.

This is their C evo jean.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/Products/productsresults/Leathers-jackets-suits/2010/August/augdraggin-jeans-ce-tests/

It even shows a close up of the exact road surface they were tested on.

They still only show abrasion resistance tests, and no impact tests. And they still only show someone being lucky enough to take a slide on their arse.

If only we could be all lucky enough that when we have an off we have such a controlled accident.

Quasievil

6th August 2010, 07:44

Just stumbled upon this video testing draggins from the MCN site.

This is their C evo jean.

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/Products/productsresults/Leathers-jackets-suits/2010/August/augdraggin-jeans-ce-tests/

It even shows a close up of the exact road surface they were tested on.

PFFT lame, wanna see some videos of a company owner testing his gear, let me know
Draggin video is soooooo yesterday

crazyhorse

6th August 2010, 07:55

Draggin jeans are still big in other countries, and they would be my preferred jean :yes:

Quasievil

6th August 2010, 08:03

I prefer these, better made in my view more robust.
SARTSO for the win
guys and girls available, cool designs

http://www.kiwimotoguy.co.nz/

http://www.kiwimotogirl.co.nz/

imdying

6th August 2010, 09:39

Was thinking about the value of impact protection, and got to wondering if you take a big knock, which causes a big bruise and a clot, clot lets go, travels to the heart, and kills you. Can't say I've heard of it happening to anyone I know, but is it a possibility?

Ratti

6th August 2010, 19:03

Sorry but I dont have any abrasion resistance stuff to hand. I do recall something along the lines of it being measured in meters of slide rather than seconds. From memory recommendations were for a 20m slide. Double layers on impact areas are a good idea and you see them on a lot of gear anyway.Armour helps improve time to wear through to skin but is mainly impact cushioning

Other factors such as how loose the gear fits, does it ride up shins, is there a gap at the waist all need to be factored in as well.

It's a complicated equation, but a fair bit of horse sense goes a long way to working it out.