L Plates are dangerous [Archive]

robertvi

15th July 2010, 17:17

I guess the logic goes something like "this person is a learner and therefore will be slowing me down at some point unless I can get past" which is not even especially true on my GN250 (given enough throttle), let alone a ZX6R, but doesn't stop 'em from trying a dangerous passing manoeuvre :angry:

There's also something about the 'narrowness' of a bike which seems to grate a certain type of driver "I can see all that empty road ahead beyond this small object, so why can't I get to it?" c'est la vie

Ronin

15th July 2010, 17:26

So were you riding the 400? How fast were you going?

davereid

15th July 2010, 17:27

I find that drivers do behave differently when confronted with different size bikes, so I am sure that the "L" plate contributes to some crappy driver behaviour. My K100 seems to elicit a completely different driver attitude to my scooter !

But your licence is conditional on a number of conditions, one of which is that you display an "L" plate.

From a purely legal point of view, if you don't meet the conditions of a licence, you don't have a licence, so, always use your L plate.

I've suggested mounting it on the inside of the number plate facing forward. It meets the requirements of the lore, but cannot be seen from behind.

Especially if you paint the back of it black, it would never be noticed from behind.

Ride safe..

Neshi

15th July 2010, 17:35

But your licence is conditional on a number of conditions, one of which is that you display an "L" plate.
I've suggested mounting it on the inside of the number plate facing forward..., but cannot be seen from behind.

Especially if you paint the back of it black, it would never be noticed from behind.

how is it displaying the L plate, when you can't see it. In that case it might as well not be there.

I've attached the L plate on my bike when I first got my license. 2 weeks in it fell of on the motorway.. never bothered to put a new one up. Cagers treat me like a normal biker, police doesn't care because I am confident enough on the road (otherwise they would have pulled me over).

davereid

15th July 2010, 17:40

how is it displaying the L plate, when you can't see it. In that case it might as well not be there.

I've attached the L plate on my bike when I first got my license. 2 weeks in it fell of on the motorway.. never bothered to put a new one up. Cagers treat me like a normal biker, police doesn't care because I am confident enough on the road (otherwise they would have pulled me over).

Its up to you Neshi.

It's very visible in the location I have suggested, its just not visible to tail-gaters.

But don't whinge on here if you crash and get declined insurance because you crashed into a lawyer who knew you were technically unlicensed.

Cayman911

15th July 2010, 17:42

I'd rather some people think im a dork learning how to change gears than to get a $100 fine like i did. or as the gentleman above said, be declined by insurance. as those are the learning times.

and you can look at it in another way too. its an excuse to muck up. because everyone will know you're a learner. while if you are on a 400 mucking up something with no indication of learners, you'll probably just get laughs and people pointing.

that was a while ago, when the cop gave me the fine, it made me realise all that. and now i can get my full soon :D

davereid

15th July 2010, 17:50

I'd rather some people think im a dork learning how to change gears than to get a $100 fine like i did. or as the gentleman above said, be declined by insurance. as those are the learning times

On the bright side, I have never heard of anyone being declined, its just that if they were to choose to become very very anal, they could.

Spend your time learning to ride, learning. Not dodging cops, obsessing about other drivers, or worrying about "what people think".

Motorcycling may be the best thing you will ever do.

But, its dangerous, and it needs conscious effort to get it right, and the measure of that is not you lap times, its being uninjured and still doing it when you are on the old-age-pension.

The BEST thing you can do is use every minute on your bike getting better at riding.
You are generously advantaged should things go wrong with a good helmet, gloves and boots.

Your BEST investment is developing the patience to ride slowly when you must, to anticipate the idiot, and to have the skills to ensure his idiocy does not hurt you.

Ride safe...

Gone Burger

15th July 2010, 17:59

When I was on my learners, I actually found displaying my "L" plate was very handy. The first few months of learning to change gears, stalling a few times at roundabouts etc... having the L plate there let people know that I was having a few issues, and not just being a twat that was holding people up (ok, so I was being that too, but no intentionally). They gave me some decent space, and allowed me the time to get myself sorted and up and going again before reacting to me. I did find that when I took it off, and stalled, people got very grumpy very quickly, trying to over take me within seconds.

Kept them on just until I got the hang of the gears, and through the issues of a new bike getting stuck in neutral mid intersection! Took them off as the confidence grew and I didn't think I needed as much space or patience from people.

Worked a treat for me as an early learner, wonder if others ever found them helpful?

ajturbo

15th July 2010, 20:33

in my day we didn't have to have an "L"... we didn't have that DANGEROUSLY STUPID 70k rule....

in my day, we had horses :innocent:

bogan

15th July 2010, 20:40

j_redley

15th July 2010, 20:46

Personally I see the point in them, if your a learner. Much like you steer clear of a car driver who has L plates, people may be a little more cautious around you on the bike if you have L's. However, putting L's on the 400 is asking to be pulled over if thats what your riding.

On the other hand, I've had my leaners for over 2 years now, and simply don't agree with the amount your forced to pay to our government to get the next stage licence, so haven't done so yet, and I don't use L's.

wysper

15th July 2010, 20:50

Just got my 6R the other day and popped a L-plate on for the first time on the way to the test.
had three seperate cages tailgate me..like bulls to a red rag

Just as a matter of interest, next time you go out on the same bike, if you DONT have the L plate on, see how often you get tailgated. You may be surprised.

Cayman911

15th July 2010, 21:07

putting L's on the 400 is asking to be pulled over if thats what your riding.
.

haha there was a CBR400 on trademe a while back with 250 stickers on it for that exact reason.

PrincessBandit

15th July 2010, 21:21

There will always be divided opinion about whether L plates are "good" or "bad". Personally I always used mine while on my L, and yes I did have a few incidents of bullying by knobhead drivers, but generally speaking my experience was more positive than negative.

Interestingly most tailgating was when I was on the GN; very few incidents with the bandit.

There are just dorks out there who will be road bullies regardless - you just have to use your discretion as to when to hold your ground and when to make an exit.....

=cJ=

15th July 2010, 23:17

Its up to you Neshi.

It's very visible in the location I have suggested, its just not visible to tail-gaters.

But don't whinge on here if you crash and get declined insurance because you crashed into a lawyer who knew you were technically unlicensed.

I'm not sure that would swing.

http://www.legislation.co.nz/act/public/1977/0014/latest/DLM442558.html#DLM442558

Insurance reform act 1977 might get you clear.

putput

16th July 2010, 08:30

nah the 400 is a new...was riding a hyo 250 with the L plate on.

Eyegasm

16th July 2010, 08:41

I've said it once before... and I'll say it again, I love my L plate.

davereid

16th July 2010, 08:47

Insurance reform act 1977 might get you clear.

Your learners motorcycle licence to drive is conditional on you using a bike of 250cc or less, that has an L plate.

That's the only vehicle covered by your motorcycle learners licence. You aren't licensed for a 650, Mums car, or Dads B-Train, or a 125 that does not have L plates.

Its not like not having rego or a WOF. Being unlicensed for the class of vehicle you are driving is an easy out for an insurer that chose to play the game the hard way.

It would be an amazingly anal insurer who chose to deny you insurance because your L plate had just fallen off. A slightly less anal insurer who chose to deny it because you chose to ride without it.

But, such insurers exist, and the chance of finding one is directly related to the cost of the payout.

And I hope you are keeping my 1100 polished, and it is not out in the rain. So there.

Gone Burger

16th July 2010, 09:47

I've said it once before... and I'll say it again, I love my L plate.

You sure do sunshine don't you? And you are SUCH a good boy the sticks to 70 on your L-Plate too - most impressed with your discipline!

Go on - get your restricted - I DARE you! I'll even let you keep you L-plate on when you graduate. Always easy to find you on a ride when you have a yellow tag to follow. :blink:

aprilia_RS250

16th July 2010, 09:57

I've ridden with the L plate on and off. And to be honest I've never noticed anyone tailgating me.

Personally I don't think the L plate is bad. After all it only says you don't have much experience riding a bike on the ROAD, which is true.

What I do think is really f*cking stupid and dangerous is the 70km/h top speed limit. Yuh like I'm gonna ride 70km/h on the motorway when a 10 tonne truck is doing 100 behind me.:shit:

Eyegasm

16th July 2010, 10:38

You sure do sunshine don't you? And you are SUCH a good boy the sticks to 70 on your L-Plate too - most impressed with your discipline!

Go on - get your restricted - I DARE you! I'll even let you keep you L-plate on when you graduate. Always easy to find you on a ride when you have a yellow tag to follow. :blink:

Of course I stick to 70kph (x2)

And don't dare me, I might just go and do it.:gob:

Neshi

16th July 2010, 10:40

It would be an amazingly anal insurer who chose to deny you insurance because your L plate had just fallen off. A slightly less anal insurer who chose to deny it because you chose to ride without it.

It's not like I will tell my insurer I chose to ride without the L-plate, neither would I tell the police that. I will tell them how it is, "the L-plate fell of while riding.. sorry officer, I will get another one asap." If they insist on giving me a ticket for it I will talk to them about the stupid rules of the learner license, especially the 70k limit and how that is endangering myself and other road users.

haven't had any problems for 4 months.. those last two will be fine.

KelvinAng

16th July 2010, 10:45

Worked a treat for me as an early learner, wonder if others ever found them helpful?

I had them on all the time when I was on my Learner's. I think they had been helpful for me. Then again I'm one of those who don't mind wearing a bright florescent vest when riding in poor lighting conditions...

I don't recall now being tailgated or overtaken when I rode my bikes with or without the "L" plate, but definitely had incidents when I rode my scooters regardless of having the "L" plate or not, even though I always keep to 50-ish km/hr speeds. Similarly my Toyota MR2 was almost never overtaken, but my Mitsubishi L300 van is frequently overtaken when doing the same speeds (~100-ish km/hr on the open roads). Just one of those driver behaviour quirks :)

Gone Burger

16th July 2010, 10:50

Ahhhh nice to see you upgraded to a bloody super bike there Kelvin too! ;)

Dutchee

16th July 2010, 11:00

I'm sure I've only ridden once with an L plate. Was picking up a new bike, it ran like a dog and struggled to do the speed limit. My husband told me to rip the plate off, but I refused. Struggled to get up a hill (not even a hill, more a bump in the road) with a car behind me, but the car didn't get shitty with me holding it up, probably saw the plate and figured I had no idea what I was doing.
When I went for my full years back, I didn't bother putting a plate on the scooter and got away with that. The cop testing me had decided I was a waste of time, and sent me up the road (didn't quite catch his instructions so went for a 5 second ride), he then wandered back into the station to do some paperwork or whatever. I went to the counter when I came back, filled in whatever paperwork was required and merrily went on my way. No wonder there's talk about weetbix licences. Mine was a definite joke.

KelvinAng

16th July 2010, 11:53

Ahhhh nice to see you upgraded to a bloody super bike there Kelvin too! ;)

I know, "death-trap" and all :blink:

Spearfish

16th July 2010, 12:23

I'm not sure that would swing.

http://www.legislation.co.nz/act/public/1977/0014/latest/DLM442558.html#DLM442558

Insurance reform act 1977 might get you clear.

Trying to read that link made my eyes bleed.

On or off the L plate has to be a contributing factor but they can get snaky if there is no other party who "caused" it, the secretive "Lone Bin" in other works.

Its funny how car drivers consider they are being held up by the smallest and the largest vehicles on the road regardless of speed or acceleration.

John_H

17th July 2010, 08:12

It's all a myth that people intentionally intimidate L plate riders. Just an excuse people use to not display them as they feel inferior with them on. I agree with Katie that it explains to othe road users why your kangaroo hopping away from the light

mattian

17th July 2010, 08:22

Cayman911

17th July 2010, 10:20

It's all a myth that people intentionally intimidate L plate riders.

Like the myth that every biker at front of the lights wants to race. its so funny you get the odd cars next to you eyeing you out and as soon as the light goes green they gas it off hard. and i actually make a turn hahahahaha

born disturbed

17th July 2010, 10:33

Alot of the problem with learner riders or even longtime riders in general being tailgated or passed dangerously is that you are not giving the cage driver the feeling that you have presence on the road, they simply see straight past to the nice wide open space & dont think twice as how their next move may affect you. It probably helps me, even with my L's (stoopid court order)that I have been riding well long enough to gauge how drivers react to our riding styles & the fact that I look drastically angry even with my helmet on:crazy:& need to hit something all the time.

Ride like you pay to use the damn road & yes there will still be fuckwits who pass & tailgate when they dont need too, thats the life of a biker. Keep your L's on for the sake of license & such & ride your bike, just keep an eye on your mirrors :Punk:

PirateJafa

17th July 2010, 10:50

Your learners motorcycle licence to drive is conditional on you using a bike of 250cc or less, that has an L plate.

That's the only vehicle covered by your motorcycle learners licence. You aren't licensed for a 650, Mums car, or Dads B-Train, or a 125 that does not have L plates.

Its not like not having rego or a WOF. Being unlicensed for the class of vehicle you are driving is an easy out for an insurer that chose to play the game the hard way.

It would be an amazingly anal insurer who chose to deny you insurance because your L plate had just fallen off. A slightly less anal insurer who chose to deny it because you chose to ride without it.

But, such insurers exist, and the chance of finding one is directly related to the cost of the payout.

Wrong.

Suggest you actually read the above-mentioned act. As long as thefact they didn't have a little square of yellow plastic on their tail was not a causative factor in the crash, it is no "easy out" for them as long as you are prepared to stand up for your rights.

Having been rear-ended twice on my restricted on >250cc bikes, I can guarantee you that you can get the full money out of even the hard-arsed companies (In the first instance they even paid me twice what I told them I'd bought the bike for, and let me keep the still-reg'd, still-WOF'd, still-ridable "wreck" - and apparently getting money from these guys was usually akin to getting blood from a stone).

Know your rights and be prepared to stand up for them, and you'll be fine.

I don't recall now being tailgated or overtaken when I rode my bikes with or without the "L" plate, but definitely had incidents when I rode my scooters regardless of having the "L" plate or not, even though I always keep to 50-ish km/hr speeds. Similarly my Toyota MR2 was almost never overtaken, but my Mitsubishi L300 van is frequently overtaken when doing the same speeds (~100-ish km/hr on the open roads). Just one of those driver behaviour quirks :)

In all fairness, in a car I do prefer to overtake vans on the road, as they block a good bit more visibility than having a car in front.

Neshi

17th July 2010, 11:12

I'm not intentionally not displaying the L plate because of tailgaters... the sole fact that learners aren't allowed to do 100km/h on the motorway is enough for me. Doing 70 is dangerous, but with an L plate and doing a 100 is in my opinion screaming for attention from the police.. If they have a bad day it's very easy for them to fine you for 30km/h over the limit. Without the L-plate, and a confident attitude it seems like you're doing nothing wrong and they won't give you a second look.

p.dath

17th July 2010, 11:15

Suggest you actually read the above-mentioned act. As long as thefact they didn't have a little square of yellow plastic on their tail was not a causative factor in the crash, it is no "easy out" for them as long as you are prepared to stand up for your rights.

You are right PirateJaffa. The problem is even if you are in the "right" it is not often worth the fight. The last big issue I had with an insurance company that kept stalling took me more than a year to work through the legal channel - only to have it settled just before "D" day.

It's just so much grief some times. Just easier to stick "inside" the law, and avoid potential issues that an insurance company can bring up to try and not process a claim in the first place, even if those issues are not "causative".

scumdog

17th July 2010, 11:25

haha there was a CBR400 on trademe a while back with 250 stickers on it for that exact reason.

Yeah, THAT will fool the cops.

Until one does a check on your rego....:weep:

scumdog

17th July 2010, 11:29

I had people tailgating me on my learners, and my restricted and even now on my full. As a learner it probably seems more noticeable and intimidating while you settle on your own strategy for dealing with it. They are not going to disappear just because you get your full licence and a bigger bike.

That is the reality of it, with very rare exceptions the driver behaviour is the same regardless of the 'L' plate or not.

Most don't want to have to have an 'L' plate on their bike purely for ego reasons - but come up with random excuses to not have it on.

rjg

17th July 2010, 13:08

I 'wore' my L plate for my 6 months around Welly and down and up the length of the Mainland and never had any issues with other drivers.
I felt better not worrying about getting pulled over for a please explain with Mr Snake. As for the 70km/h rule, I feel you have a much better case to argue for the officers discretion on that then not having an L plate.

I've attached the L plate on my bike when I first got my license. 2 weeks in it fell of on the motorway.. never bothered to put a new one up.

Just one more thing falling off your bike mate.

Of course I stick to 70kph (x2)

And don't dare me, I might just go and do it.:gob:

I dare you, I dare you. Just do it man, you know you want to.

davereid

20th July 2010, 15:09

Wrong. Suggest you actually read the above-mentioned act. As long as thefact they didn't have a little square of yellow plastic on their tail was not a causative factor in the crash, it is no "easy out" for them as long as you are prepared to stand up for your rights.

Sigh.

Phone your insurer. Ask them if you are still covered if you are un-licenced for the class of vehicle you crash.

Your licence is conditional on you meeting its requirements.

The word AND applies not OR.

You need to meet condition A and B and C etc to be licensed. Its not A or B or C.

Its not that the little piece of plastic was causative to the crash and more than an extra c.c. of engine capacity would be.

Its the fact that the extra c.c., or lack of the plastic thingy means you are not licensed for the class of vehicle.

Your insurer may not even notice it. He may not even care. But, he might just walk off, because legally you are not correctly licensed.

SMOKEU

20th July 2010, 15:14

I never even bothered with an L plate, except when I went for my 6R test. I got 3T once by a traffic unit, and he questioned me about the no L plate. I just said "I think I'm a good enough rider not to need one", and he just laughed and let me off without a fine.

PirateJafa

20th July 2010, 15:16

Sigh.

Phone your insurer. Ask them if you are still covered if you are un-licenced for the class of vehicle you crash.

Your licence is conditional on you meeting its requirements.

The word AND applies not OR.

You need to meet condition A and B and C etc to be licensed. Its not A or B or C.

Its not that the little piece of plastic was causative to the crash and more than an extra c.c. of engine capacity would be.

Its the fact that the extra c.c., or lack of the plastic thingy means you are not licensed for the class of vehicle.

Your insurer may not even notice it. He may not even care. But, he might just walk off, because legally you are not correctly licensed.

You're wrong. And since it has already been clearly explained that you are wrong, with real-world examples cited, you are unfortunately on a hiding to nothing here.

But it looks like that won't deter you.

davereid

20th July 2010, 15:22

You're wrong. And since it has already been clearly explained that you are wrong, with real-world examples cited, you are unfortunately on a hiding to nothing here.

But it looks like that won't deter you.

Go on then. Ring your insurer.

Ask them if you are covered if unlicensed.

Then ask them if you are covered if otherwise licensed but if breach of license conditions.

I have asked my insurance broker. He said, many insurers would not notice, and even if they did they may not care.

But you would not have a leg to stand on if they did care. Being unlicensed is an easy out for them, as is being drunk, or 24.99999 years old when the vehicle is insured for drivers 25 or older.

PirateJafa

20th July 2010, 15:47

Go on then. Ring your insurer.

Ask them if you are covered if unlicensed.

Then ask them if you are covered if otherwise licensed but if breach of license conditions.

I have asked my insurance broker. He said, many insurers would not notice, and even if they did they may not care.

But you would not have a leg to stand on if they did care. Being unlicensed is an easy out for them, as is being drunk, or 24.99999 years old when the vehicle is insured for drivers 25 or older.

Insurance companies will of course try and get away with whatever they can. This is not news to anyone. They initially refused to pay out on me too, as I was claiming on a NC30 on my restricted. However if you stand your ground, you will get the payout, as I did.

Just because you don't know your rights, does not mean they don't exist.

Putting your head in the sand will only make it easier for them to take you in the arse.

Squiggles

20th July 2010, 15:52

as I was claiming on a NC30 on my restricted

with an exemption from memory? :innocent:

PirateJafa

20th July 2010, 15:54

with an exemption from memory? :innocent:

Whilst waiting to hear from LTSA regarding my exemption application, from memory... :innocent:

davereid

20th July 2010, 16:16

Just because you don't know your rights, does not mean they don't exist. Putting your head in the sand will only make it easier for them to take you in the arse.

How about a scan from pg 6 of the CLIC (AMI underwritten) vehicle insurance policy.

There is no cover if the person driving or in charge of the vehicle is :
i) not legally allowed to drive in New Zealand, or
ii) not driving according to the conditions of their driver licence

scumdog

21st July 2010, 18:18

How about a scan from pg 6 of the CLIC (AMI underwritten) vehicle insurance policy.

There is no cover if the person driving or in charge of the vehicle is :
i) not legally allowed to drive in New Zealand, or
ii) not driving according to the conditions of their driver licence

Don't burst his bubble ya meany!:p

PirateJafa

21st July 2010, 19:10

Don't burst his bubble ya meany!:p

He can warble on all he likes, it won't change the facts.

It just makes it a waste of my internet cap to continue repeating the same facts back to him. And considering I'm on an unlimited plan, that's impressive. :blink:

st00ji

22nd July 2010, 16:44

i spent time with and without my L plate on while i was on my learners. never noticed much difference in behaviour from other drivers.

the main reason i didnt always wear it was my need to use the motorways, and my refusal to do 70 on them. i figured the chance of getting pulled up doing 100 was much greater with the plate on.

i did get pinged once, was not on the motorway though. bike cop followed me for a while, im guessing he checked the licence status of the registered owner or something and pulled me up. i told him why i wasnt wearing a L plate, and he gave me a big lecture on being irresponsible, etc etc. and how i would be losing my licence with that attitude, the works. (first demerit points in 6 or 7 years)

then he spent our last five minutes together telling me if i had just told him that it had fallen off and i was going home to fix it up he would have let me go. i said 'i told you the truth, i thought you guys appreciated that' he mumbled something like 'uh yeah, right well full credit to you, but mumble mumble'

shrug.

Scorp

26th July 2010, 12:08

bogan

26th July 2010, 12:16

What bugs me is the middle ground. 70k is an insanely dangerous speed to go on a 100k road. But I'm the kind of guy who wants to comply with the law. So here I am, L plate on (and it will stay on till I pass my restricted) but can't keep to 70k cause it's dangerously slow, and won't do 100k cause I know it's just asking to be pulled over.

But the fact is that at 85 to 90 with an L plate on I am constantly getting tailgated by incredibly impatient drivers. Utes, vans and trucks seem to be the worst offenders. I think what another poster mentioned is a major factor, they see the open road beyond and want it. Plus, you've probably only half registered on their radar anyway.

I ride on the right side of the lane, around the region of a car's right wheel track. But when I get a tailgater, I pull over and let it by. I'd rather I had half-concentrating impatient fuckers in front of me where I can see them more clearly, than up my ass.

It is a poorly thought out rule, I'm guessing the idea was to keep learners off busy high speed roads. either learn slowly round town, or find a quiet rural road, trouble is it's too hard to quantify those points so they went with a 70kmhr limit. Basically they don't want learners commuting in busy traffic at high speeds. Not sure if I agree with it or not, for some learners its a good idea, but others who already have enough riding experience don't represent a significant risk, only 6 months though.

p.dath

26th July 2010, 12:32

What bugs me is the middle ground. 70k is an insanely dangerous speed to go on a 100k road.

I think the point is that learner riders are not *meant* to go on 100km/h roads that also have traffic moving at 100km/h. Recognising that it is not safe to ride at 70km/h with 100km/h traffic is great.

Consider it a probationary period for "learners" to learn machine control skills, and to become situationaly aware. The fact of the matter is, the faster you go the faster your brain has to process information. And when none of that information has been learned yet and has become second nature, that represents a considerable amount of information.

The largest group of motorcycle accidents involve just a motorcycle, and no other road user. What does that tell you about how tricky it is too learn these things?

I do take some learners out with me from time to time on 100km/h roads - but we tend to go on back roads that are quiet, and we just pull over to let any cars go buy that come up behind us.

Unfortunately it usually takes a good "off" or a fright before we sit back and contemplate these things.

Scorp

26th July 2010, 12:42

either learn slowly round town, or find a quiet rural road
I'm surrounded by quite rural roads... where the speed limit is 100k. Therein lies the problem. A classic example is a real nasty bend that just keeps going and catches out dozens of cars every year. Speed limit 100k - Orange advisory sign 45k. I take it at about 65 (smoothly) in my car, but on the bike, as a learner, somewhere just over 55. I make a point of get my speed and gear selection sorted before the bend, but dipshit daydreaming car drivers going in to hot can just jam on their brakes at the apex and correct. Messy, but doable. The (infrequent) result is that I find myself slowing down in preparation for the bend, while being rapidly closed on by a car doing 80k not preparing for it. Not a nice view in the mirror.

bogan

26th July 2010, 12:53

I'm surrounded by quite rural roads... where the speed limit is 100k. Therein lies the problem. A classic example is a real nasty bend that just keeps going and catches out dozens of cars every year. Speed limit 100k - Orange advisory sign 45k. I take it at about 65 (smoothly) in my car, but on the bike, as a learner, somewhere just over 55. I make a point of get my speed and gear selection sorted before the bend, but dipshit daydreaming car drivers going in to hot can just jam on their brakes at the apex and correct. Messy, but doable. The (infrequent) result is that I find myself slowing down in preparation for the bend, while being rapidly closed on by a car doing 80k not preparing for it. Not a nice view in the mirror.

sounds like you need to worry more ab out the corner than whats in your mirror, in my experience some cagers just like to come up quick to other vehicles, doesn't mean you are in any danger of getting hit. When you do a mirror check before the corner, if there is someone there, double tap the brakes to flash the brake light just to be on the safe side.

Scorp

26th July 2010, 13:04

sounds like you need to worry more ab out the corner than whats in your mirror, in my experience some cagers just like to come up quick to other vehicles, doesn't mean you are in any danger of getting hit. When you do a mirror check before the corner, if there is someone there, double tap the brakes to flash the brake light just to be on the safe side.
Yeah, to be honest, it unnerved me the first time, but now I just get on with what I'm doing. Mind you, not sure double tapping the brakes is a good idea while I'm braking before a bend, wouldn't that sort of involve unbraking twice :blink:

davebullet

26th July 2010, 13:10

On the VTR250 when I was re-learning to ride, I got deliberately tapped from behind by a 4WD when I might have spent a few seconds fuddling into first at the lights.

I got home and removed the L plate.

I believe more drivers get infuriated when they see one, than give you some slack. I think on average it is more dangerous.

My advice? - Put it on initially, get enough skills so you don't wobble all over the place (eg. say 1 month of solid riding) then take it off. You won't get pulled over if you look like you know what you are doing on a bike and are not breaking the law.

Besides - I'd rather take the $400 fine than goad cagers who get frustrated at the sight of an L plate.

The NZ motorcycle laws need to be sent to Chip Foose for some serious Overhaulin'

bogan

26th July 2010, 13:21

Yeah, to be honest, it unnerved me the first time, but now I just get on with what I'm doing. Mind you, not sure double tapping the brakes is a good idea while I'm braking before a bend, wouldn't that sort of involve unbraking twice :blink:

before the corner I said! (I count braking for the corner as part of the corner btw) Once you get into the corner you want ot be able to focus mainly on getting round it, I say mainly as you should also be looking out for hazards etc.

On the VTR250 when I was re-learning to ride, I got deliberately tapped from behind by a 4WD when I might have spent a few seconds fuddling into first at the lights.

thats pretty shit, didn't they think to use a horn or something? Used to get the odd tap at the lights from a mate who was laughing his head off behind me (got him back latger by hitting his engine kill switch when we we departing :lol:) pretty unnerving really, not what learners need at all.

p.dath

26th July 2010, 13:50

I'm surrounded by quite rural roads... where the speed limit is 100k. Therein lies the problem. A classic example is a real nasty bend that just keeps going and catches out dozens of cars every year. Speed limit 100k - Orange advisory sign 45k. ... The (infrequent) result is that I find myself slowing down in preparation for the bend, while being rapidly closed on by a car doing 80k not preparing for it. Not a nice view in the mirror.

There is a great defensive "driving" technique I use for this. Tap your brake three times as your approach the corner. Your flashing brake light more clearly warns others behind you that you are slowing down, even if you are not deliberately braking to slow down.

p.dath

26th July 2010, 13:57

I believe more drivers get infuriated when they see one, than give you some slack. I think on average it is more dangerous.

Off all the drivers/riders I know, and of all the times we have discussed driving/riding/road safety, not once has anyone ever said they get infuriated when they see an 'L' plate. Not one.

I would say the exact opposite. Most road users are more likely to give you some slack when they see the 'L' plate and than to decide to suddenly change their entire demeanour and become aggressive towards 'L' plate users.

No one wants to be in an accident with anyone else. Seriously. And an 'L' plate signifies you are learning road skills, and so more care needs to be given to the person with the plate.

I do believe 'L' plate users may be more sensitive to what happens in their environment as they are learning new skills, and there brains are having to process more information because some skills have not been learned enough yet to become second nature.

Think about it. The mere idea of the majority of road users "targetting" "L" users sounds preposterous.

st00ji

26th July 2010, 15:34

perhaps they have not been honest with you? i'm able to recognise in myself the angry impatient feeling you get when someone holds you up on the roads, even for just a few seconds. guy on pushbike means you have to do 30k for 10 seconds? RAR! some idiot taking his third attempt at a double park? GRR! grandma pulling into 60k traffic at 25k? PHWOAR! it doesnt make sense, but it happens... and when i see an L plate on a car, my first reaction is 'great - heres another 40k bandit, how can i get past him'

luckily im not such a cock that i actually act on such feelings... but that doesnt mean others dont.

actually getting a bike was the best thing i did in this light, since it means im easily able to avoid those situations!

scumdog

26th July 2010, 15:49

There is a great defensive "driving" technique I use for this. Tap your brake three times as your approach the corner. Your flashing brake light more clearly warns others behind you that you are slowing down, even if you are not deliberately braking to slow down.

Top idea - do it all the time there's any bike/car following me.:yes:

p.dath

29th July 2010, 08:24

I've written a BLOG entry about this (using L plates). You may find it of interest to read.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/entry.php/1646-L-Plates-Their-just-a-sign

Mrs Shrek

7th August 2010, 12:22

I've written a BLOG entry about this (using L plates). You may find it of interest to read.
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/entry.php/1646-L-Plates-Their-just-a-sign

Just read your blog..... very interesting and also applies to car learners as well. I am teaching my 16 yr old to drive and believe me there is no way at the begining that I would let her past 3rd gear because there is so much to take in when you start out....road rules, changing gears, being aware of what is going on around you etc. It all takes practise and with it comes the ability to speed up and drive/ride confidently.

Rogue Rider

7th August 2010, 12:30

When I was on my learners, I actually found displaying my "L" plate was very handy.
They gave me some decent space, and allowed me the time to get myself sorted and up and going again before reacting to me.

Worked a treat for me as an early learner, wonder if others ever found them helpful?

I think people could tell you were an awesome biker chick and knew if the messed wid you the heavies would hunt em down with a howitzer and destroy every ounce of their being.......................

L plates, can't say I ever been a fan of them really, don't really have any practical use as fas as I am concerned. I disagree vigorously with the ridiculous speed limit imposed on learner riders on the open road. Anything under 100km on the open road is absolutely dangerous, and I see learners all the time riding slow on the open road. That is a death wish. :shit:

Mrs Shrek

7th August 2010, 12:38

I think people could tell you were an awesome biker chick and knew if the messed wid you the heavies would hunt em down with a howitzer and destroy every ounce of their being.......................

L plates, can't say I ever been a fan of them really, don't really have any practical use as fas as I am concerned. I disagree vigorously with the ridiculous speed limit imposed on learner riders on the open road. Anything under 100km on the open road is absolutely dangerous, and I see learners all the time riding slow on the open road. That is a death wish. :shit:

I'll have my plate up and Shrek say's he'll be riding shotgun :love: can't see it myself he got bored with one lap round the village at 40 km :Punk: So I guess he will be there for the first k or 2 then :bye: :bye: and meet me further up the road. But its only for 6 mths :wait:

Virago

7th August 2010, 13:38

The frequently voiced concern that L-plates incite an agressive response from other road users, is in my opinion, a misperception.

There is no doubt that there is the occasional tosser who, when seeing an L-plate, will decide to taunt and harrass. Some playground bullies never grow up...

For every such bully though, there will be at least another 10 such impatient road-users, who when seeing the L-plate will back off and give some space and tolerance. These generally go un-noticed, whereas the bully is very much noticed.

Overall though, I believe that L-plates have a far greater positive effect than negative - it's just not as apparent.

I've taught my wife how to ride, and several youngsters how to drive, and as part of that I have closely observed the reactions of other road-users. Most, even when being inconvenienced, will count to ten and allow that little extra time and space. A small smile on their faces will often confirm that they can recall the stresses of learning to ride or drive, and they will respond with suitable indulgence (and perhaps a little good-natured condescension).

FJRider

7th August 2010, 14:06

I'll have my plate up and Shrek say's he'll be riding shotgun :love: can't see it myself he got bored with one lap round the village at 40 km :Punk: So I guess he will be there for the first k or 2 then :bye: :bye: and meet me further up the road. But its only for 6 mths :wait:

If he says he will ... I'm sure he will :yes:

But within a month or so (maybe less) your speed and confidence will increase :sunny:

and as you say, its only for six months ... :scooter:

_Shrek_

7th August 2010, 15:00

I've written a BLOG entry about this (using L plates). You may find it of interest to read.

I agree with the using the L plates, but the 70k in a 100k for bikes is wrong, not all the roads are quite especially for those that live outside the city's & does become dangerous when they have to put up with impatient drivers, or traffic just pushing past, because learners have to keep to the far left as possible

on the up side most drivers I've noticed when out riding do take care when they see an L plate, the way I see it is that they should put it back up ot 100 or bring the car learners down, as they both have to learn the same sort of stuff

I'll have my plate up and Shrek say's he'll be riding shotgun :love: can't see it myself he got bored with one lap round the village at 40 km :Punk: So I guess he will be there for the first k or 2 then :bye: :bye: and meet me further up the road. But its only for 6 mths :wait:

I said I would :ride: shotgun :shifty: just not for how far or long :whistle:

If he says he will ... I'm sure he will :yes:

cheers :apint: for the vote of confidence :laugh:

crazyhorse

7th August 2010, 15:18

For every such bully though, there will be at least another 10 such impatient road-users, who when seeing the L-plate will back off and give some space and tolerance. These generally go un-noticed, whereas the bully is very much noticed.

Overall though, I believe that L-plates have a far greater positive effect than negative - it's just not as apparent.

I think you are quite right. One day I went for a country ride by myself, came accross a L-plate rider, so I sat behind them for a while, for encouragement and also to not frighten them when I came out of nowhere to pass suddenly - this way, they became aware I was behind them and passed slowly and cautiously, then carrying on with my journey. I later met up with him and chatted about how he was getting his confidence up by riding in the country and gaining experience.

I do however think the 70 km rule on open roads is more dangerous, but have had this conversation with police - however they have this sad thought in their minds that a learner being on two wheels, is in more harm travelling at 100 km (yeah right) than a car driver on their learners :whistle:

Mrs Shrek

7th August 2010, 16:44

If he says he will ... I'm sure he will :yes:

:scooter:

He may be a green knight in shining armour on the outside .....but he's still only human on the inside :yes:
and his bike is bigger and quicker than mine so maybe he'll give me a head start, then come up behind me and stay for a while before he speeds off into the night on his glorious steed :whistle: that way he'll be keeping his word....... sort ov :innocent:

_Shrek_

9th August 2010, 19:29

He may be a green knight in shining armour on the outside ..... :yes:

:love:

he'll give me a head start, then come up behind me and stay for a while before he speeds off into the night on his glorious steed :whistle: that way he'll be keeping his word....... sort ov :innocent:

wot eva you wont ride at night :oi-grr:

DrunkenMistake

9th August 2010, 19:42

The frequently voiced concern that L-plates incite an agressive response from other road users, is in my opinion, a misperception.

There is no doubt that there is the occasional tosser who, when seeing an L-plate, will decide to taunt and harrass. Some playground bullies never grow up...

Overall though, I believe that L-plates have a far greater positive effect than negative - it's just not as apparent.

I live in dunedin to man, and I have my sexy yellow L on the back of my bike and Iv never had problems with anybody on dunedin roads in the way of them been anti L plate other than boy racers, infact this afternoon on my way back home to mac bay from work some knob jockey overtook me at the cove, a boy racer to be exact, ill be honest I dont stick to 70 on that road, its usualy 70 plus another few 10's.. :P, weither or not this guy was thinking "oh theres a sportsbike Ill prove my worth and overtake him at a higher speed although theres nobody infront of me but him" or he just saw the L and thought he'd be a Hero, he still overtook me on a blind corner and nearly had himself a headon crash.
Stupidity.
On second thought I think this is actualy slightly off topic somehow? O_O'