What does 'Fully Restored' mean?

[Paul in NZ]

Personally - I'm a bit confused by this... Its a nice bike but I would not describe it as fully restored... would you???

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=303362268

[onearmedbandit]

The question is, 'fully restored' to what? He doesn't actually state, so it could mean fully restored to the condition it was in last week.

[Jantar]

To me it means all original parts with no sign of damage or wear. Not necessarily in new showroom condition, but should be close to it. The main thing is that there is nothing that could be considered a make do repair anywhere.

[Paul in NZ]

I think we have to look at this in the context of classic vehicles. To me this is renovated to a high starndard. Restored means original specification... I mean getting the colour right would be a start?

[davebullet]

Agreed. Restored = as it would have rolled out the factory gates. That means you expect to see it leaking oil and squidgy brakes :laugh:

[Paul in NZ]

Agreed. Restored = as it would have rolled out the factory gates. That means you expect to see it leaking oil and squidgy brakes :laugh:

Sigh..... Probably true but those late 500's were pretty good bikes... Pretty quick but just seemed to wear out fast

[DEATH_INC.]

Agreed. Restored = as it would have rolled out the factory gates. That means you expect to see it leaking oil and squidgy brakes :laugh:
Thats what I'd say too. especially the oil and brakes bit. :shit:

[Paul in NZ]

Thats what I'd say too. especially the oil and brakes bit. :shit:

Um - those TLS triumph brakes can lock the front tyre ... Its harder now 'cos you cant get asbestos shoes but once you get used to non power assisted braking you can stop quickly...

[toycollector10]

I think I should be very careful about commenting adversely on another mans restoration.

But I can see a few things that I would fix prior to calling if fully restored if I owned it.

The pictures on TM are pretty descriptive. Anyone who has been to a bike show will know what a Fully Restored bike looks like.

Draw your own conclusions.

P.S. Sometimes with these TM listings the images are quite good pixel-wise. I save what I want into a folder then open the pictures with a picture program such as Coral and enlarge them as much as I can. The small detail then fills the screen and you can see properly what you are dealing with.

[FJRider]

A phrase often used on Trade Me ... "In Mint Condition" ...

"Mint" obviously comes in various values .... as ...it would seem "Fully Restored"

[Ocean1]

Restored means put into a condition where a semi-blind but temporarily wealthy purchaser might just be convinced it was barely as good as it needed to be to impress his mates.

Fully restored means ALL of the various bits have been so fucked.

If I wanted sommat old and shiny I’d rather start from scratch.

[Paul in NZ]

I think I should be very careful about commenting adversely on another mans restoration..

Thats very true and I feel a bit stink making this the example. This is not about this bike in particular (sorry, should have been clearer and now I really feel stinker) .... But then again, deliberately witholding known info or mis representing something as something it is not in an effort to get a premium price is also something people should be carefull about.

In this particular example, while I'm sure that is a very very nice bike and its certainly one I'd like to ride - there are many (many) NON 1970 T100C bits present that I can see and I'm not an expert on the 500's. My own efforts in this regard are probably laughable by comparison and my own 1970 bike is a real mix n match job (and proud of it too). I'll happily use any old bolt and change what I don't like but I'm 100% upfront about it as was the guy that sold me the bike all those years back but the real money belongs to authentic bikes and one mans 'upgrade' is another mans disaster...

[Motu]

Restored (where does this ''fully'' thing come from?) has changed in expectations over the years - from rebuilt to original specs to now days being in better condition than when it was rolled out the doors.The craftsmen of the old days are gone,replaced by materials and the machines to work them,so that components can be reproduced of far better quality than the original.Personally I don't like modern day restorations,they are just too perfect,making us nitpickers get on our hands and knees with magnifying glasses and a laptop to google how it should really be.Just give me a good honest bike - I think the Triumph in question is not bad,I don't see too much to get upset about.

And I think talking to the owner in person would be a bit more enlightening,so much is lost and wrongly interpreted over the internet.

[sidecar bob]

My favourite is "Good condition for age" Is there some kind of pro-rata system im not aware of, where a vehicle can become a bit more fucked every year & yet still be described as in good condition?

[Paul in NZ]

Oh gawd - I'm just digging a deeper hole for myself here.... I give up, lets just pretend this thread never happened and I'll crawl back under my rock....

[AllanB]

It's a nice looking bike.

Looked at a XR6 recently that was described as 'immaculate' I am pretty sure it had just had it's first wash in years as every spot that did not get a wet sponge over it was covered in dirt and dust showing it's usual condition.

I also looked at one that had "regularly been serviced by a A grade mechanic" and had no visible oil on the dipstick ......... please define regular I guess.

A bike on trademe a while back was described as having a full engine rebuild. Turned out it had had a new set of rings and plugs. I hope he did not pay too much for the full rebuild.

[toycollector10]

Bloody crap Paul, don't beat yourself up mate, there's about X thousand Kiwibikers out there lining up to do that for you.

Well, it has been in my case :gob:

Preserved
Conserved
Renovated
Restored
Freshened
Fully Restored
Fucked
Ground Up Rebuild
Rebuilt
Immaculate
Barn fresh


Any more?

If you gave the same bike (two identical bikes, that is) to two different wrenchers they would come up with totally different results. It's like painting a picture. The results will be totally different.

[neels]

It's a variable term, having come from a vintage car family I've seen my dad 'fully' restore a car, which means stripping it down to it's individual bits, and rebuilding, remachining or making from scratch everything so it's exactly as it was when it was new. Right down to the correct type of timber for the wooden body framing, making new body panels using old fucked patterns, and battling with vacuum tanks when it would make more sense to install an electric fuel pump.

He's also built a vintage race replica which he doesn't claim as restored, more a collection of parts put together to look like a car that once existed.

Could be worse, could be claiming 'mint condition except for.....'

[Paul in NZ]

Bloody crap Paul, don't beat yourself up mate, there's about X thousand Kiwibikers out there lining up to do that for you. .

Too true...

I just hooned down to the dairy on the wonderfully load, chronically unrestored AC50 / A100 and a young kid (maybe 12 or 13) was staring at it with his eyes bogging out of his skull... "Nice bike mister" he says... I told him it was twice as old as he was and then an ole Velocette burbled around the bend... drat thinks I, thats friggin sweet but the kid only had eyes for the maverick, you could see him thinking, I could ride that.... wonderful stuff.... Lets hope one day he does...

[toycollector10]

I've got's to get me a Maverick, one day. But they're getting so pricey now!

A guy I knew in the Air Force when I was at Wigram (Christchurch) in 1972 owned one. He got all homesick and rode it to Auckland and back over the Easter break. Jet helmet and RNZAF Great coat for protection. Poor bugger graduated to a big Guzzie and killed himself in Aussie shortly thereafter.

Have you seen this...?

Too pretty by far.


http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=303938021

[Paul in NZ]

Have you seen this...?

Too pretty by far.


http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=303938021


Oh yes - we have oggled that.... Its just too sexy for words. If people needed to know what happened to the British Motorcycle industry it died because they made the bantam (worthy as it is) and the japs did stuff like that.

[Motu]

My favourite is "Good condition for age" Is there some kind of pro-rata system im not aware of, where a vehicle can become a bit more fucked every year & yet still be described as in good condition?

Certainly,I see it every day.Cars come in,only 4 years old and totally trashed,dents in every panel,seats ripped and smeared and Dog knows what.And yet another will be 20 years old with perfect paint and seats that look like they've never been sat in.Inbetween those extremes are vehicles is various condition.A medium point would be ''Good condition for age''.I don't see the problem there,of course any vehicle will deteriorate with age...there is a norm....and it's easy to find.

[Dodgyiti]

I've never managed to restore anything, refurbish maybe, but not restore- that's for people with a lot more dedication to reproducing something that may have been a bit crap to start with. I like to try and fix the original short commings and deliver something rideable mainly.

[Paul in NZ]

I like to try and fix the original short commings and deliver something rideable mainly.

Fnark..... I dont think I'll live long enough to fix all the short comings in my bikes

[toycollector10]

Speaking of the British Bike Industry. I wound up in Wellington in early 1973. I looked at the Triumph model which is the topic of this post, It might have been the exact same bike. I couldn't afford a 650cc so was looking at the 500cc. On the shop floor of the bike dealers up from Manners Mall, or Manners Street, as it was then known.

It had a one cent piece sized drop of oil under it. Not good!

Then I walked up to the top of Cuba Street to the Honda dealer and rode out on a brand spanking new CB250.

What a blast. I wrung it's nuts off for about 5 years and it didn't break. Red lined +for four or five times a day. Ya couldn't kill it with an axe.

One of these

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/aw8eOXMtQCQ&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/aw8eOXMtQCQ&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Try treating a Triumph twin like that, it would be dead in 6 months.

Ya gotta laugh!

[Motu]

Who rode around the world on a CB250? Ted Simon rode a 1973 500cc Triumph around the world.The Triumph had class back then,and still has it now.

[Max Headroom]

The term "restoration" has inherited a very subjective meaning in recent years. I saw an article referring to a rare 1930's limousine which had been restored at great expense and sold a few years ago, wheeled straight into another restoration shop and completely stripped again. It was restored yet again at huge expense, in line with period photos found of the car early in it's ownership.

A bike or car is usually deserving of the title "restored" when it's been returned to factory spec and factory condition in every detail. Any variation of specification or colour generally means that it's been "rebuilt" even if the final result is similar or better to original.

These days, a true "restoration" will probably be unpleasant to drive or ride in current traffic conditions or compromised in other ways, and is doomed to a life of shows and parade events. Discreet upgrades will probably reduce it's value but increase it's usability as far as brakes, engine cooling, electrics or reliability is concerned.

[nudemetalz]

Yes I too have oogled that A100SP, but a tad pricey for me. Wifey is already "raising concerns" at the bikes I have already.

My FS-1 isn't going to be a "factory restoration" but more of a "what would have happened in 1970's with one".
My plan is a YB100 engine (gotta keep up with Paul's Maverick), single TZ-type seat, chamber and TZ colours.
But I will rebuild the wheels etc to make it look like it should.

With regards to restoration, a classic example is Pete's RM400N where he has polished the forks and swingarm. Okay it's not factory original but it looks superb and he doesn't care.

[avgas]

Fully Restored - Fixed and working to a state is was when new. Not of original parts, paint design- that would be using the words "Factory Restored" or "Old/new restored". Fully restored can mean customized or retrofitted. This usually fixes factory issues.

Factory restored - restored as per factory roll-out

Blueprinted - restored to requirements in original design (often different from production model).

Mint - "As original as being pressed by...." , takes into account age - but does not consider wear and tear as reasonable. Similar to factory restore, but allows for 'fade' etc due to age. Does not allow for damage due to use. (e.g. not used at all)

[toycollector10]

You've lost me completely there Avgas....

[Voltaire]

I restored a basket case Triumph bought in tea chests in the early 90's in London....spent many hours in the conservatory filing, sanding, polishing...:love:..got an age related plate.....rode it to the 1992 TT.....shipped it home and the bloody thing seized on me coming back from Puke in 1997..:angry:.and I re-stored it back into the tea chests.....:innocent:
not really restored...as the original tea chests were Indian and the current ones are Kenyan.:blink:

[Paul in NZ]

I restored a basket case Triumph bought in tea chests in the early 90's in London....spent many hours in the conservatory filing, sanding, polishing...:love:..got an age related plate.....rode it to the 1992 TT.....shipped it home and the bloody thing seized on me coming back from Puke in 1997..:angry:.and I re-stored it back into the tea chests.....:innocent:
not really restored...as the original tea chests were Indian and the current ones are Kenyan.:blink:

Now thats funny.... really funny! I snorted a carrot out my nose - which is odd 'cos we have not eaten carrots for days......

[Paul in NZ]

You've lost me completely there Avgas....

Your memory needs a factory restoration ;-)

[toycollector10]

Your memory needs a factory restoration ;-)

My wife would prefer me to be blueprinted, that is, "restored to requirements in original design".

[Paul in NZ]

My wife would prefer me to be blueprinted, that is, "restored to requirements in original design".

Vicki was opting for an improved version of me.... maybe a bigger bore or longer stroke with a lighter chassis....

[Voltaire]

Vicki was opting for an improved version of me.... maybe a bigger bore or longer stroke with a lighter chassis....

...with longer duration and double pumpers?...as in cams and carbs...:innocent:

[toycollector10]

This is lots more fun than baiting Beyond.....

[Dodgyiti]

...with longer duration and double pumpers?...as in cams and carbs...:innocent:

Yep, a good tickle and he's away:yes:

Restoration blah!

Poor Volty's Triumph, at least the Indian tea chests were part of the Commonwealth. Now you have gone and dunked it in non HM approved tea like a little metal biscuit

[Voltaire]

Poor Volty's Triumph, at least the Indian tea chests were part of the Commonwealth. Now you have gone and dunked it in non HM approved tea like a little metal biscuit


What do you 're store' Guzzi parts in....? A Biscotti tin? :innocent:

...oh and Kenya are in the Commonwealth....:sherlock:

[prvt parts]

Speaking of the British Bike Industry. I wound up in Wellington in early 1973. I looked at the Triumph model which is the topic of this post, It might have been the exact same bike. I couldn't afford a 650cc so was looking at the 500cc. On the shop floor of the bike dealers up from Manners Mall, or Manners Street, as it was then known.

It had a one cent piece sized drop of oil under it. Not good!

Then I walked up to the top of Cuba Street to the Honda dealer and rode out on a brand spanking new CB250.

What a blast. I wrung it's nuts off for about 5 years and it didn't break. Red lined +for four or five times a day. Ya couldn't kill it with an axe.

One of these

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/aw8eOXMtQCQ&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/aw8eOXMtQCQ&amp;hl=en_US&amp;fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

Try treating a Triumph twin like that, it would be dead in 6 months.

Ya gotta laugh!

yeah ! but some people have no class aye !

[toycollector10]

yeah ! but some people have no class aye !

This Brit V's Japper debate has been going on since about 1963 so post up a picture of your bike (s), the one(s) you own, like I have, or shut the hell up. It's boring!

Find one of your mates who's ever ridden a Kawa Z1 and ask him what he thought of it!

Better still, I'll go up against your bloody gasping old Norton any day of the week on my CB750 or Zed.

[prvt parts]

This Brit V's Japper debate has been going on since about 1963 so post up a picture of your bike (s), the one(s) you own, like I have, or shut the hell up. It's boring!

Find one of your mates who's ever ridden a Kawa Z1 and ask him what he thought of it!

Better still, I'll go up against your bloody gasping old Norton any day of the week on my CB750 or Zed.

Oh dear .If you don't like debate why go on about 5 cent piece oil leaks and stuff, it may have been planted there anyway. Someone has to stick up for the real classics !

[Voltaire]

Oh dear .If you don't like debate why go on about 5 cent piece oil leaks and stuff, it may have been planted there anyway. Someone has to stick up for the real classics !

.....looks like he too de bait.....:killingme:

[toycollector10]

It had a one cent piece sized drop of oil under it. Not good!

and

Try treating a Triumph twin like that, it would be dead in 6 months.



In the light of day it would appear that it was in fact me who kicked it all off.

I apologize. Each to their own should be the motto here.

[Paul in NZ]

I apologize. Each to their own should be the motto here.

Quite true... Fact is - our needs as motorcyclists are all very different so we all appreciate different attributes of certain bikes. MANY Brit bikes are nowhere as bad as some would have you believe and MANY Japanese bikes certainly do have class and breeding but its the exceptions that get thrown about ;-)

The whole thing bored me then and it bores me now - I have total respect for anyone willing to risk life and limb by throwing a leg over a two wheeler and even more respect for those still riding the old bikes, it takes extra effort to keep them churning...

What I dislike is the constant rewriting of history for commercial gain...

[toycollector10]

I broke my number one rule. There's too much bad mouthing, posturing, hurling of insults and general macho madness on this forum for me to be adding to it.

Not to mention the vitriolic PM's that must circulate in the background.

I agree with Paul, a little more respect here would be nice.

But I think we are way, way off topic.

[Motu]

You throw your toys out of the cot without much provocation...harden the fuck is the catch phrase these days.

[Paul in NZ]

You throw your toys out of the cot without much provocation...harden the fuck is the catch phrase these days.

Good job hes a toy collector then - presumably lots to throw.... I'm still working out at the gym, I can lift the AC50 but don't think I could throw it far...

[Voltaire]

harden the fuck is the catch phrase these days.

..er back in the day...now its HTFU.:innocent:

[Motu]

Hey,this is the Classic Bike Forum,none of your modern acronyms here!

[scumdog]

Personally - I'm a bit confused by this... Its a nice bike but I would not describe it as fully restored... would you???

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=303362268

A bit like dealers advertising a "Full off the chassis restoration" for a '58 Ford Thunderbird.

Which doesn't HAVE a chassis....:blink:

[scumdog]

Vicki was opting for an improved version of me.... maybe a bigger bore or longer stroke with a lighter chassis....

And less of the crackle-finish paint too no doubt?:shifty::shutup:

[eelracing]

What I dislike is the constant rewriting of history for commercial gain...

How so? Not to take it off topic,but interested to know.

[Motu]

I've been bitten too many times repairing ''full restorations'' in the past,and am glad I don't have anything to do with such things now....I can just look and marvel.The customer pays a shitload for these things,and is absolutely positively sure that it is perfect.In fact it's been put together from half a dozen different vehicles,and they get very upset with you when you have to tell them you are having trouble getting caliper kits when there are 3 different calipers on the one vehicle.

Mind you....I'm also responsible for adding to some of the worst offenders out there.I feel sorry for someone trying to restore some of the bikes and cars I've owned.