Rego Rises Again

[Lee Rusty]

$345 a year to register a m/c is a bloody disgrace
$270+ is the new ACC levy

So you guys who are on here telling others about your crashes
would be well advised to keep to keep your tales of woe to yourselves. All your crashes do is cost the rest of us money.

[130wide]

When does this come in to effect?

[Andrew]

I bought my bike as a cheap option for transportation, initally being a student.

I paid $2800 for my bike and that was hard enough on a student salary.

I see that my chain, sprockets, front tyre, and front brake pads need replacing, so i replace them $430.

My bike fails its warrent because of leaky seals, so I get them replaced $210, only to discover 2 months later they start to leak. I'm told i need get them rechromed and resealed and thats a cost of $500.

I'm getting my bike in for a full service this week and find out it needs cam chain replacing, aswell as plugs and schims replacing.
Another $500.

The front discs on my bike are just under the min thickness and if I get stung on the warrent for them its another $1200 to get after market front discs.

Then I pay $350 / year for insurance and thats with nc bonus.
Then I'm told registration has gone up to $345 a year.

So if i get stung on my warrent I could have paid $6335 for a 13 year old 250 thats a piece of crap.

Yet I've never had a crash or ever been ticketed, man do I feel like I'm getting the raw end of the deal.

[SPman]

Originally posted by Lee Rusty
$345 a year to register a m/c is a bloody disgrace 


I could think of stronger epithets!  :brick:

[Lee Rusty]

effective now

[Lee Rusty]

there are cheaper alternatives if you need to replace your discs,
1200 seems over the top .
There is a guy in OZ who advertises in M/c Marketplace and Data Mag (see there website) he makes rotors (the disc part) and puts them on your carriers (the middle bit) musch cheaper than 1200.

No one can really believe bikes are a cheaper alternative transport. That may have been back in the 50's and 60's but not for many years now.

Just tyres and insurance will put paid to that myth.

[SPman]

Mt Eden M/cycles carries aftermarket disc assemblies for most models - I think $7-800 a pr.

[wkid_one]

Mine was probably fecken expensive for ACC - ambulance, 15 X-Rays, 2 Cat Scans, 8 hrs hospital time, a plethora of Physio visits - shit, I am glad my registrations went to good use - as for contributing to the increase. 

I think your comment is completely naive and marginally arrogant.  They are looking at the increase in accidents in general - this is driven by an increase in the NUMBER of motorcyclists on the road - which has in turn increased the base line number of accidents.  Pull your head in a realise bikes will have accidents.  Motorcycle registrations have increased year on year - as have bike accidents in numbers BUT NOT AS A PROPORTION OF REGISTERED MOTORBIKES ON THE ROAD - infact this stat has decreased with the focus on speeding and roading in NZ.  However, given the increase in biking numbers, it is now a feasible source of revenue collection for the government.  It is also a focus of the NZ Government to tax the groups responsible for the costs, which has driven the segregation of Rego costs being groups.

If you want to complain - drive a truck carrying 44 tonne up and down the country - THEN YOU WILL SEE REVENUE COLLECTION TO THE NTH DEGREE - if you think we are targetted and hard done by, you are sadly mistaken.  Try insuring an R1 in the UK if you want to see cost.

However, Lee based on your post, I would like to raise some questions:


By not posting about the accidents - how does this prevent the premiums increasing?  Out of sight out of mind?
Ummm - am I too understand from the tone of your post you have NEVER crashed, and therefore contributed to the ACC statistics?
Statistically bikes do have a higher proportion of ACC related injuries - why SHOULDN'T we pay more?  Any accident on a bike, no matter how small - can result in the need for ACC - yet many car accidents don't.  DO you want Car drivers to subsidise your habit? 
Errr - no one WANTS to have any accidents - if posting about it helps someone else realise the dangers and ride safer - good on them for posting about it


 

[Motu]

You're getting to be a right pain w'kid - go and play with ya new toy eh.

How many ACC claims have you had in your short riding career? I don't know how many Lee has had,but in my 33 years on bikes I have had no claims,no trips to hospital,this may change tomorrow,but for now I've been subsidising the likes of you.Don't call me slow either!:D

[Lee Rusty]

Buy your statement

Mine was probably fecken expensive for ACC - ambulance, 15 X-Rays, 2 Cat Scans, 8 hrs hospital time, a plethora of Physio visits - shit, I am glad my registrations went to good use

you should be more than happy to pay for all your own expenses, out of YOUR regos - not mine and everyone elses.

I object to ACC increases because road users subsidise OFF ROAD riders who get charged nothing but still crash get injuries and ACC
the same goes for rugby players, tennis players, judo players, horse riders etc.

[Lee Rusty]

In answer to your questions

By not posting about the accidents - how does this prevent the premiums increasing? Out of sight out of mind?

No it does not - buit I have read here of people who have crashed their bike and say it gives them street cred.
That is Crap. A rider who crashes is juat that a rider who crashes.
Not a hero.

Ummm - am I too understand from the tone of your post you have NEVER crashed, and therefore contributed to the ACC statistics?

I have been riding for over 35 years and had a couple of "offs" but have never been involved with another vehicle.
I had an ACC claim in the old days for a new helmet - $200.00
I have had I claim for ACC from an incident as a pedestrian.

Statistically bikes do have a higher proportion of ACC related injuries - why SHOULDN'T we pay more? Any accident on a bike, no matter how small - can result in the need for ACC - yet many car accidents don't. DO you want Car drivers to subsidise your habit?

You obviously want us to subsidise yours.

Errr - no one WANTS to have any accidents - if posting about it helps someone else realise the dangers and ride safer - good on them for posting about it

WHo says that reading about crashes will make people ride safer.
that would be wishful thinking,
There is a difference between that and trying to compete with I had a bigger crash that you - i got more tickets than you etc.

I also have a hatred of dickheads who I see do wheelstands at traffic lights, on the motorway etc, everytime I see some clown do that I imagine my insurance man is in the car behind or opposite.

[Lee Rusty]

Also remember what you a said next year and the year after that

the ACC has an agenda to get ACC levy for bikers up to approx $700 a year.

THe outcry at that was to great so they are going to do it in bits - next year it will break $400 -

oh and that is beside the petrol tax ACC levy which is supposed to be the fairer way to go.

How about - we get some credits for less pollution, less road damage, less traffic congestion. etc.

[Coldkiwi]

two ends of the spectrum are raised here. Yes, when bikers crash we probably cost more money to fix up than a cage crash and its only fair that we should contribute to that. But if its going to be fair to the car drivers by not forking out for our increased risk, we shouldnt' fork out for the risk of little jane playing netball on saturday when she gets her fingers broken or my flatmates injuries incurred doing judo.

Would it really take too much effort to collate the costs of the motorcycle accidents to ACC last year, divide it by the number of licenced riders (and include the offroad types.. "no ACC payouts for your injuries my boy until you've registered")... the sum of which is then published and all paid next time we get our rego? Sure there are a few tweaks that would be needed but its gotta be a fairer way fo doing it than this present crap. (and if it did work out to $700 each then why shouldn't we pay that?? I just worry that right now, some accountant needs to settle his bottom line more than he cares about being fair)

[SPman]

Hmmm...... 36 yrs riding - 7 offs - no claims on ACC

40 yrs driving, 6 dings including a writeoff - no claims to ACC.......

Feel as though Im subsidising a lot of people out there - although it could all change tomorrow!

[XRNR]

Wickid,
Their is no increase in the number of bikes on the road now! There is a definite decrease since when I started riding, Bikes were more affordable than cars then, now its the other way around.

Andrew,
Have no illusions about big road bikes being a cheap form of transport. (and pretty much bikes in general). They are mostly high performance machines and should be maintained as such. By the time you put good tyres on, and wear all the good protective gear (if you value yourself (and are not an accountant)). About the only money you will save will be at the pump and the carpark.
Unless you get a cool bike like Motu's.

[MikeL]

Hmmm I seem to recall a thread about the comparative costs of running a car and a bike, in which I got thoroughly rubbished for claiming that it costs me a lot less to keep my Toyota on the road than either of my bikes...
Well Andrew I think you've illustrated the point I was making quite convincingly. Not that I'm gloating, because I feel sorry for you and others on student loans, limited incomes and so on who might have thought that bikes were a more economical alternative. I'm in the fortunate position of having the means to indulge my expensive hobby (even if She Who Holds the Purse Strings grumbles a bit from time to time...).
I can't say the rise in ACC levy will deter me but I do bitterly resent the injustice of it. In 36 years of driving/riding I haven't cost the taxpayer a cent, and I'm going to try to keep it that way. If my car rego is subsidizing rugby players I can't see the logic of "user pays" just for motorcycles. But I'm not optimistic about the chances of reversing a trend once the bean-counters pounce on something and turn it into some sort of crusade. And yes we are a minority that can be largely disregarded from the political point of view (I don't know the figures but I suspect that any recent increase in motorycles on the road is still a long way from matching the figures from 20 or 30 years ago, as a proportion of total vehicles). I guess my philosophy is "grin and bear it" - after all, things could get a lot worse...

[twistymover]

I believe that with most accidents involving a motorcycle and another roaduser, the blame lies with the non-motorcycle user. If this is true, then the costs of these accidents should be spread fairly, ie, across the spectrum of road users. ?

[Hoon]

Glad I'm a track only rider!!  No regos, wof, tickets or insurance worries for me!!

[wari]

... anyway ... whats wrong with someone subsidising someone else ... it happens with any public service in this country all the time , health for example. It's called community spirit I think ???!!! Which I hear is a good thing.

It's impossible to work out a true "userpays" system that is 100% accurate. And if we did it would work on individuals rather than groups eh?

If income tax was going to be truly fair , we would all just get a fixed tax bill every year , no matter what we earnt.

Getting a bit philosophical here eh ...

But this ACC irks the shit outa me ... it just encourages me to rip the govt off in any way I can (I shouldn'ta said that ) in an honest way of course ... loopholes are bliss.

[wkid_one]

heh heh heh - nothing like going against the grain to spark conversation.

We are, and will continue to be, a targetted segment of the population because WE DO HAVE MORE ACCIDENTS THAT REQUIRE GOVERNMENT SUPPORT.

As for your comment about Off Roaders - this also applies to track riders as well.  Who don't pay Rego etc - yet when they crash - require ACC. 

And sorry XRNR - bike registrations are DEFINITELY on the increase - another reason for the Government and Statistics NZ to focus on the group.

At the end of the day - NZ is moving to a user pays society - and as they unfortunately can't tax Leisure Pursuits - they WILL tax the groups they can - this means bikers.

Read the documentation supporting the increases in REgo - it is an interesting read - and if you do - you will notice it is not as big a knee jerk reaction as you think.

And yes, the proportion of accidents to registrations IS DOWN...not up.

As for my accident - so what......shit I could rewind the clock - I wouldn't want it to happen, as for getting street cred - quite the fucken contrary in my eyes. 

You subsidising mine?  Rubbish - I pay my regos, petrol tax, PAYE tax etc - I pay mine own way as dictated by the government.  I also carry full medical insurance to NOT be a burden on society - this is what my shoulder was reconstructed under.

I am going to buy a jetski - as this is rife with ACC claims at the moment - bring it on - so I will see you in the ED.

I ask you a question:  If you were running a business and one group was costing you more than others, would you keep a flat line approach to cost and revenue allocation?  I know I wouldn't.  They are pricing risk to reward - NZ business has been doing this for years - I can't disagree with our government doing it. 

As for Taxing Sports - this has been discussed for years and years - and will continue to be so until an ameniable solution can be found.

In an ideal world - we would abolish ACC and have an entirely user pays society - it wouldn't bother me.  I would love to see how people would react then - sitting in a ditch w/o medical insurance and no ambulance prepared to pick them up.

Pull your heads in and realise this is the way it is going......

[SPman]

ACC should, of course be included in the fuel price. - that way, the more you use your vehicle (only one at a time) the higher the risk, the more fuel you use and the more ACC levy you pay. Then you could afford to keep several vehicles registered, because the rego would only be around $40 - 50!

It would mean, however that fuel would go up another dollar a litre, but, so what! We would then be starting to pay what they pay overseas for their fuel and might get a little more serious about economy and conservation of resources!

This is what BRONZ and some others have been arguing for for some time as a fairer method of funding, but the public would squeal like stuck pigs (and shit, they can squeal) and votes would be lost, so it wont happen. They'll just carry on sneaking more charges on fuel for "esential works', so it will go up anyway and we'll get a double whammy!

Useless Pricks! :angry2:

[MikeL]

Originally posted by SPman
We ... might get a little more serious about economy and conservation of resources!


If the govt was willing to look at the broader picture rather than choosing easy targets, it would consider encouraging motorcycle use for both more efficient fuel usage and alleviation of congestion. If you took every 10th single-occupant car on Auckland roads and replaced it with a bike or scooter, and even allowing for a slightly higher accident/injury rate and consequent ACC costs, I think the savings in fuel consumption and productivity would result in a net economic benefit. But tunnel vision and short-term expediency will ensure that common sense and lateral thinking will remain off the agenda.

[wkid_one]

Originally posted by SPman
ACC should, of course be included in the fuel price. - that way, the more you use your vehicle (only one at a time) the higher the risk, the more fuel you use and the more ACC levy you pay. 

Rubbish, this discounts fuel efficiency and displacement from the equation - bikes are higher risk but use less petrol per km than other modes of transport - plus they tend to be used a toys in the weekend - which creates a disproportionate ratio of petrol tax to accidents.  Scenario - Mr Weekend Warrior going out on his FXGSXRZ500 fills up with 11L of gas and heads out for a hoon after 6 weekends of poor weather - versus Mr Responsible driving a 3L Maxima to Kataia for the weekend fills up with 40L of gas for the trip - WHO is statistically more likely to have the accident.  By LEE's own argument - the car driver is subsidising the Motorcyclist.  We are quick to want equality - so long as it doesn't hurt us in the back pocket - if it does someone else however, we are quick to turn a blind eye.

However, taxing at registration is also useless - as you can have your bike registered for 6months of the year and barely ride it due to it being in the middle of winter.

Easiest way is to pay as you use - that way - those who don't use it, don't pay. DO away with ACC - and make everyone have medical insurance - therefore the INsurance company can deem what a risk you are and adjust premiums accordingly. 

[wkid_one]

Originally posted by MikeL
If the govt was willing to look at the broader picture rather than choosing easy targets, it would consider encouraging motorcycle use for both more efficient fuel usage and alleviation of congestion. If you took every 10th single-occupant car on Auckland roads and replaced it with a bike or scooter, and even allowing for a slightly higher accident/injury rate and consequent ACC costs, I think the savings in fuel consumption and productivity would result in a net economic benefit. But tunnel vision and short-term expediency will ensure that common sense and lateral thinking will remain off the agenda.

The biggest saving would be from reducing the numbers of single occupant cars on the road in peak hour traffic by getting people to car pool.  And, increasing emission standards.  The ACC costs per accident of a bike and a car are greater than 'slightly'.  

As for fuel consumption - we would be better to do away with fossil fuels full stop and use alternate energy sources thereby reducing fuel consumption entirely.  PLUS:  if you ever rode a VTR - you would know - bikes being more fuel efficient is a generalisation - NOT a rule.

I struggle to see how converting more motorcyclists would great an economic benefit?   Maybe to the shops that service motorcycles, insurance companies and government coffers - but NOT to the average person.  It may have an environmental benefit - but hardly economic.

[wkid_one]

SP - same argument applies to RUC - why tax this seperately?  How many people out there don't have up to date RUC?  As a petrol driver - I pay my RUC as part of my pump price and therefore have no choice to NOT pay - yet diesel drivers ARE given the choice of whether to pay or not - regardless of their road useage

Also, taxing petrol wouldn't be such a bad idea - if the money collected actually went back in to roading infrastructure and quality.

[wkid_one]

Originally posted by HO-Hoon
Glad I'm a track only rider!!  No regos, wof, tickets or insurance worries for me!!

I'm with HO here!!!! :rockon::rockon::rockon::rockon::rockon:

Then, of course, if I do I have accident on the track - it is still going to effect registrations tho.....but not mine

[merv]

I'm registering 4 cars, trailer and two bikes. I'd prefer to see the ACC charge on my licence (damn I can only ride or drive one vehicle at a time) and it should operate like an individual insurance policy with cheaper premiums if you've had no claims.

34 years and no claims I have well and truly subsidised Wkid. I hope you are grateful boy.

[merv]

Originally posted by Motu
You're getting to be a right pain w'kid - go and play with ya new toy eh.


Agreed, and I'm getting sick of seeing his goddamn oversized signature attachment too when its repeated so often.

[merv]

Originally posted by MikeL
Hmmm I seem to recall a thread about the comparative costs of running a car and a bike, in which I got thoroughly rubbished for claiming that it costs me a lot less to keep my Toyota on the road than either of my bikes...

I was the one who said on a per km basis I have always treated my bikes as toys and not transport, because click up the km's and they'll cost more to run than a cheap car. I quoted prices of tyres and the like but then the argument went off onto relative performance etc, but my main point was around using a bike as basic transport commuting which was a sure way in my opinion to have the bucks fly out of your wallet.

[XRNR]

wickid,
See a trend here?

At 31 March 2000 2001 2002
Motorcycles 41,234 40,079 39,862

http://www.stats.govt.nz/domino/external/web/nzstories.nsf/htmldocs/Quick+Facts+-+Industries
Source: Land Transport Safety Authority.

Wasn't even going back anywhere near where I was thinking off!

[XRNR]

Originally posted by merv
I'm registering 4 cars, trailer and two bikes. I'd prefer to see the ACC charge on my licence (damn I can only ride or drive one vehicle at a time) and it should operate like an individual insurance policy with cheaper premiums if you've had no claims.
I really like this idea, was just talking about it with Wari this morning.

(Possibly that could be a annual charge like rates, & when it isn't paid your license is flagged as suspended, Mr Plod would pick this up when he does his radio license check. (then you would get a serious kick up the butt).

Neither do I like paying for multiple vehicles when I can only drive one at a time.

The ACC on petrol seems a bit fairer, people using lawn mowers boats weed eaters unregistered m/cycles etc are still contributing, even if some peoples petrol usage verses risk are not proportional. (pity the govt can't be trusted to use their taxes for what they say they are going to).

[Motu]

I've got 4 bikes to register - damn,I was so proud of myself these days,everything being leagal like.One Honda,one Yamaha,still too many,but some of these young cops can read.

[Lou Girardin]

What's wrong with cross - subsidisation anyway?
It's the basic principle of any insurance, you pay a premium in anticipation of a claim. If you don't claim, you still have had the potential benefit in peace of mind. It's only since the new-right idealogues gained power in the '80's that we've had 'user pays' otherwise known as 'I'm alright Jack'.
If you want user pays, then I want the right to choose my own insurer.

[What?]

Personally, I would vote for Mickey Mouse if he promised to scrap ACC. I would much prefer to have personal accident insurance, then my premium would be related to my claim history. As things are, ACC is legalised fraud.

However, as we are most unlikely to ever see ACC scrapped, the idea of putting the levy on driver's licenses is the preferred option for me. I have 2 road bikes and a car, plus 2 registered trailers. Plus the wife's car. Seems to me I am paying way more than my fair share...:angry2::angry2::angry2::angry2::angry2:

[georgedubyabush]

Got my rego extortion letter in the post yesterday, $275 grand total for a year. Maybe I sneaked in front of the change date if there is one?

Changing the ACC to licences... Which is worse? People driving or riding around unregistered or people driving or riding around unlicenced?

[Slim]

Originally posted by georgedubyabush
Got my rego extortion letter in the post yesterday, $275 grand total for a year. Maybe I sneaked in front of the change date if there is one?
I checked out the LTSA site and there's no mention of it there.

Where'd you hear about it, Lee?

[SPman]

Originally posted by wkid_one
SP - same argument applies to RUC - why tax this seperately?  How many people out there don't have up to date RUC?  As a petrol driver - I pay my RUC as part of my pump price and therefore have no choice to NOT pay - yet diesel drivers ARE given the choice of whether to pay or not - regardless of their road useage

Also, taxing petrol wouldn't be such a bad idea - if the money collected actually went back in to roading infrastructure and quality.

Yeah, but I'd like to see RUC included in diesel as well - inclusive up to 3.5 tonnes! Heavy vehicles start paying by weight from there on up.

Then diesel would be the same price as the rest of the world as well!:Offtopic::whocares:

[What?]

Originally posted by Slim
I checked out the LTSA site and there's no mention of it there. 

No mention on the ACC site, either.

[inlinefour]

$345 a year to register a m/c is a bloody disgrace
$270+ is the new ACC levy

So you guys who are on here telling others about your crashes
would be well advised to keep to keep your tales of woe to yourselves. All your crashes do is cost the rest of us money.

and it'll go up agian and agian...