Is good customer service important to long term bikeshop survival and growth?

[FROSTY]

Is good customer service important to long term bikeshop survival and growth?

The question I would have thought should be really easy to answer. a resounding YES.
It does seem though that facts actually make a lie of this.

In Auckland I've been around long enough to see some pretty passionate and customer focussed shops come and go.Some in a fairly quick space of time.
Yet I see places where there are a fair few complaints about the atitudes and service offered still doing well.
There are exceptions of course but in one case the owner is still grafting hard out "on the tools" 10 years after opening the company.
What do you folks think explains this?
Or am I totally wrong here?

[breakaway]

Because only a few people have bad experiences? Maybe out of 50 people served, 3 or so have 'serious issues'. Out of these 3, only 1 will come bitch on the internet. The other 2 will just never go back.

[AD345]

If not relying on just SELLING bikes then more key issues are:

Quality workmanship

Price


Customer service helps as a point of differentiation when the other two are equal but motorcyclists are an odd bunch and actually put their bikes before their egos (although one is often an extension of the other in the first place...)

[Headbanger]

All I know is I've had better service at Mcdonalds then I have had at a few bike shops, But I'll still shop on price rather then service, There is only 2 or 3 bike stores I would never shop with no matter how cheap they were.

As for what makes a bike shop survive?, No idea, Plenty of people more clued up then me have tried and failed.

[Edbear]

All I know is I've had better service at Mcdonalds then I have had at a few bike shops, But I'll still shop on price rather then service, There is only 2 or 3 bike stores I would never shop with no matter how cheap they were.

As for what makes a bike shop survive?, No idea, Plenty of people more clued up then me have tried and failed.

Now there's an idea, a McDonald's bike shop! "Would you like fries with that, Sir..?" :yes:

[Milts]

It could be economy-driven. In/around a reccession, people have less money and will put up with poorer service if it will save them money. I guess the region the shop is in could also be a factor (region where people have less disposable income).

Conversly in good economic times or in areas where people have greater disposable income, they are more likely to be put off by bad customer service and go elsewhere.

I think the fact is that there are hundreds or probably thousands of factors behind a shop getting more or less customers, and customer service is just one of those reasons. Different circumstances could make it a more important or less important reason, but there will always be other factors.

[Mom]

Price - Service

The reason piss poor service based shops survive is because in most cases they cut service margins to give a "best deal" financially to their clients, sharp sales teams are an added bonus. So they establish a rep for a "good deal".

The reason great service shops survive is because they have a "loyal" customer base that on sell their great service by word of mouth. Yes they may be a bit more expensive, but hell teeth they give great service, sharp sales teams are an added bonus.

The above reasons are also why so many shops fail as well.

By all means chase the almighty dollar, but please be fair in the process. Employ honest staff that are not so hungry, they will fit your clients into anything to secure a sale and some income for themselves. Pay your staff well. Reward them for suceeding. Be realistic with your margins, I know it is so hard to survive in this day and age. Dont buy deals. Give GREAT service, go that extra mile. Work hard at your business.

Sit back and reap the rewards of a great business plan.

[bogan]

depends on the competition, if they all treat customers like shit then you can survive doing the same. However, if the others offer similar workmanship and pricing then customer service will tip the scales in your favour.

Only one place I wouldn't ever go back to because of customers service, and thats a cage servicer, the guy was just a total asshole. Though I do tend to avoid a bike shop as they once did a lot more work than I asked for and charged me for all, which I guess counts as poor customer service.

[Conquiztador]

I started a thread resently where we trashed this to death. The thread was filled with experts who knew how to do it right, and what was wrong.

What I have seen in my life in business (and that includes stuff outside the bike scene too) is:

- The passionate guy who wants to do the best job will kill him self working long hours for little money. (Normally he has very little money to start it all) Once he needs to expand the ones he gets onboard lack his passion and it turns to crap as the reason the customer came to him was his passion and care.

- The small guy who has some business knowledge but not deep pockets will struggle from day one. He will start to fall behind with GST and PAYE and paying suppliers. And he will disappear. No matter how brilliant his service is.

- The small/medium guy with some money will survive longer as he can buy some stock and perhaps pick up a agency or two (but not really any of the big ones). There will come a time when he either closes shop as he can make a better living and have a better life by working for someone else, or he gets a break by one way or another (an agency, someone offers him to take over their shop or whatever)

- The guy with business knowledge (and not too much bike knowledge) that has money will approach it as a business and has no sentimental hangups why he is starting a bike business. To him it is a income earner. He runs it mean and lean, tramples over some of the small guys to grab what they had and he makes a good living. His shop will have some bling and magnets that pull noobs. And he will stay in the business until he has made enough to do what he really wants to do.

So the answer to your question is sadly a NO. The secret to survival is being a schrude business man, having money, having contacts and ability to sleep well at night after ripping others off. (Be that customers or opposition)

[Motu]

You are in business Frosty,you should know how it works.With the number of customers I told to ''Fuck off and never come back,and tell all your mates never to come here too!'' you would think I would never have had any customers left.But I still had a loyal customer base and many who would come in on recommendation.Look at the customers I say,there are more good and bad customers than there are good and bad businesses.

[Edbear]

So the answer to your question is sadly a NO. The secret to survival is being a schrude business man, having money, having contacts and ability to sleep well at night after ripping others off. (Be that customers or opposition)

That's me doomed then... :bye:

[FROSTY]

You are in business Frosty,you should know how it works.With the number of customers I told to ''Fuck off and never come back,and tell all your mates never to come here too!'' you would think I would never have had any customers left.But I still had a loyal customer base and many who would come in on recommendation.Look at the customers I say,there are more good and bad customers than there are good and bad businesses.
Ya know mate I thought that too but looking back from the 80's till now the guys till around (in auckland) seem to be ones complained about the most.
I think Mom and CQ have hit on it. Lean and mean.

This begs an interesting question.
In the BIG picture isn't a bike shop best to look after number 1 (themselves) first?
In so doing they are able to survive so they are still in Business therefore able to continue supplying bikes and parts when more customer orientated shops have gone?

[scott411]

- The guy with business knowledge (and not too much bike knowledge) that has money will approach it as a business and has no sentimental hangups why he is starting a bike business. To him it is a income earner. He runs it mean and lean, tramples over some of the small guys to grab what they had and he makes a good living. His shop will have some bling and magnets that pull noobs. And he will stay in the business until he has made enough to do what he really wants to do.



i think the first part of this statement is true, you need to be a good businessmen first and foremost, but this does not have to be exclusive to being passionate about riding bikes, and i think you statement over trampling over small guys is a bit over the top

[avgas]

There is legitimate answers to this, that I have picked during my mba. changed my perception as to how I thought things worked.
However I feel it would be pointless for me put them here - as I found in the prev thread (re: Conquiztador) it would be like trying to educate a zombie horde.
Feel free to request me to put the information into this thread, otherwise I will just sit back and laugh at how people think the world around them works.

[aprilia_RS250]

Develop relationships with your customers. Because with personal relationships comes trust. Its something a customer is willing to pay a little bit extra for and it's free for you to provide.

I've worked on the floor with some of the best and most successful salesmen for a few years while in varsity. 70% of their business came from the customers they have built relationships with over the past. The rest was superb sales technique.

If you just can't build relationships with people, sorry but you won't do that great.

[DMNTD]

Develop relationships with your customers. Because with personal relationships comes trust. Its something a customer is willing to pay a little bit extra for and it's free for you to provide.

I've worked on the floor with some of the best and most successful salesmen for a few years while in varsity. 70% of their business came from the customers they have built relationships with over the past. The rest was superb sales technique.

If you just can't build relationships with people, sorry but you won't do that great.


100% agreed....however it's gutting when you do all that you're supposed to do (and a lot more) and the ones "above" fail, negating all of your hard work.

So IMO...in order for a bike shop to be and stay successful, the owners NEED to be astute businessmen/women AND hire staff that are willing to take that extra step to ensure that the customer knows they are shopping at the right bike shop.

[slofox]

Is good customer service important to long term bikeshop survival and growth?

Hell yes. But wait - there's more...

For me, quality of workmanship is an essential as well - one botched job and I will look elsewhere. Not counting minor errors here, but true stuff-ups.

Price does count as well. But it's more a case of value for money than straight out price. What's the point of saving $50 if the job done is shonky?

Then, as others have pointed out, customer relations is also important. When the boss offers me a play on a GSX-R1000 while I wait for a service, then I am likely to go back...:devil2:

[wysper]

depends on the competition, if they all treat customers like shit then you can survive doing the same. However, if the others offer similar workmanship and pricing then customer service will tip the scales in your favour.



This is a good point. There is one local dealer I have become a convert of recently.
Their service will keep me coming back. I won't go in blind, I will have an idea of what things cost elsewhere, but on some occasions I won't mind paying more to support my local dealer. Already they have supported me by sorting out a problem quick smart.

So I will support them. Service/Honesty/Price. Those are the three biggies for me.
Next step for them is learning my name :)

[phill-k]

There is legitimate answers to this, that I have picked during my mba. changed my perception as to how I thought things worked.
Feel free to request me to put the information into this thread, otherwise I will just sit back and laugh at how people think the world around them works.

I'd like to see your comments:

To me Honesty in your dealings, and by this I mean each and every person in the organization is up front, honest, and if doubtful of the correct response will offer to find out.
Self survival, no point in being customer focused and so price point oriented that profit margins fail to cover the costs of being in business and offering good customer service.

Having returned to riding in the last 18months, I've bought one second hand bike, Yamaha 250 Virgo, and a shadow to complete my restricted on. Both from dealers, now that I have a full license I'm looking for a bigger bike to fit my size.
From reading on this forum, and as with anything one is passionate about you tend to know probably as much about the product/subject as those behind the counter, and when one is lied too, blatantly, or through ignorance, you then have to wonder about such things as was the service preformed correctly ect.

My experiences dealing in Auckland (Large dealerships)
Buying the Yamaha, dealership owner happened to be on the floor, nice guy helpful, gave with the purchase such simple things as soft keyring, cover and info for service manual, followed up with letters ect. This enticed me to return when looking for a slightly bigger bike for my restricted. Was interested in a new bike, having a background in business, and understanding the finance game - charges, commissions, margins, I commenced to negotiate a deal, but as I usually do, step back, go for a coffee ect to make sure the deal is as I wish, also to look at an alternative bike (the shadow), finally do the deal on a shadow, and before I have the chance to ring the previous dealership to thank them and inform them I have made a decision to purchase a different brand, am called and informed that they can do an even better deal after explaining the shadow deal.
In business the art of selling is what keeps an organisation afloat, to complete the deal whilst on the floor is the ideal, to understand what your competitors are doing/offering is also important so that if necessary a further incentive can be offered to a potential departing client, but to tell that client after they have informed you that they have purchased elsewhere, that you could have sweetened the deal further infers the best deal was not offered in the first place.
I arrange to collect the Honda the next day and as part of the deal they will supply and install a visi-bike, they forget to do it and as I'm riding back to Northland that day, have no option but to take it with me. Only to find that they don't actually have one, and listen to the salesman ring the company to order one after telling me the one they received was faulty - no talk about this in his conversation.
Honda then three weeks later drop $3000 of the retail on the shadow to move excess stock on, not the dealerships fault, my bad luck, and I guess a calculated business decision, knowing that recent purchasers will be pissed by it.
First service done by local Honda dealership as per the warranty service booklet this can be done by any authorised dealership - I pay for fluids, seller pays labour, after argument with the seller as to them not being prepared to pay for local dealership to fit the agreed visi-bike because they don't want to pay for the labour, they finally apologise and authorise same.
Contact seller to arrange 6000km service as going to be in Ak, they price it and when asked to explain quoted price, have added the cost of all the fluids as well. The service book clearly states the check is just visual inspection of brakes, cables, nuts and bolts tight ect no fluids to be changed I ask if this is the standard requirement for the 6000k service and am told yes. Local dealership does the job in under an hour and charges accordingly.
I only wish they had a bike for me now.

So should I offer any loyalty, be concerned about buying accessories from offshore, accept less than the best deal for me, I don't think so.

I could continue with the fun I'm having trying to trade up now but will leave that for another time.

[Conquiztador]

I'd like to see your comments:


I could continue with the fun I'm having trying to trade up now but will leave that for another time.

Interesting and I am sure many have similar experiences.

But this is NOT what keeps a business going long term.

Here some things I have learnt through the years:
- Have finance in place for expansion/product purchase when best price.
- Have a long term plan.
- Treat staff well!
- Have the latest gizmos first for sale!
- Be seen and heard.
- Have top quality financial monitoring in place!
- Location!

Then you can clearly add good customer service too. But sadly it is not the top priority.

[wysper]

Interesting and I am sure many have similar experiences.


Then you can clearly add good customer service too. But sadly it is not the top priority.

Maybe it is not so much sadly, because as you have pointed out, without what you mentioned you can't provide the good service anyway can you.

You need a finacially viable business.
The right stock
The right people
Some more money...


But I would hope it would all from a profitable circle with each bit feeding the others to keep a good business going.

[piston broke]

i have so far only read the first post,but,
hell no.
i go on,do they have the bike, accessories i want?
are they the best price?
service is way down the list for me.
i mean,you don't have to like the salesperson,store.
you are only there for a very short time.
tho,if i do get 'great' service i will go back,even if they are 'slightly' overpriced.hmm,contradiction,maybe.

[vifferman]

Is good customer service important to long term bikeshop survival and growth?

Hell yes. But wait - there's more...

For me, quality of workmanship is an essential as well - one botched job and I will look elsewhere. Not counting minor errors here, but true stuff-ups.
I can forgive mistakes and other shortcomings if I am treated with respect and honesty. Lie to me, treat me with disdain, and I'll go elsewhere, even if it costs me.
Part of that is my own weakness - I like to have some sort of relationship with bike shop personnel, not be just another customer / wallet.
The guy who services my wife's car isn't the best in Auckland, and his workshop's a bit scruffy, but he knows me, treats me like a friend, is honest, and does a reasonable job. No valet service, but then I don't get charged $85-$100 per hour either. And he's familiar enough with the cars he works on that when "the book" or the parts people tell him worn lower wishbone bushes necessitate replacement of the complete arm at $1000/side, he fits identical bushes from another marque, and charges me $90/side. Less mark-up for him, but a happy and loyal customer.

Here's a bike example: I've spent maybe $100 at Holeshot Suzuki over the last 11 years, yet I will recommend them to others because they've always treated me well when I've looked for a replacement bike. They're the first place I'd go to come replacement time, as they've always been quite happy for me to test-ride their bikes. I'd never go back to the shop I bought the VFR from, because they treated me badly, knew I knew they'd ripped me off, lied to my face, and didn't care that I knew.

[MarkH]

Is good customer service important to long term bikeshop survival and growth?

My answer:
Yes, it is important and it does help build a profitable business.

Further:
As important as good customer service may be, it isn't the only factor in long term bikeshop survival & growth. There are many other factors that are also important, a lot of them have already been mentioned.

I think that anyone that says good customer service isn't important for a bike shop is definitely an idiot. But it isn't necessarily vital - sometimes all the other factors add up enough to compensate for lousy customer service and a business can thrive despite poor customers service. Obviously a shop can have great customer service, but have other factors lead them to close down. Doing too much to make customers happy and not actually making a profit will definitely lead to a shop with good customer service going out of business.

[fuknKIWI]

Is good customer service important to long term bikeshop survival and growth?
Or am I totally wrong here?

Yeah but no but yeah, you are totally wrong to the former question and the latter question is totally right or something like or unlike that.:blink:
Casbolts has been round for too long Eric Wood's shop outlived his ownership.
There's good coin to be made ripping people off, and there's never any shortage of suckers coming through the door.

[Quasi]

Is good customer service important to long term bikeshop survival and growth?

absolutely - havent bothered reading the posts, but if you dont provide good customer service, everything else falls to pieces. If you look after your customers - they will look after you - short term, long term. And looking after your customers can mean a million different things - latest products, best prices, ability to offer a deal, a smile for each and every person who walks in the door (even when having the shittiest day ever), remembering faces, willingness to do/get what the customer wants, even if not part of your core range. Its all about doing what you can to make your customer happy, to make them feel that they are special, that they matter and important to you as a business.
No matter what - your customer has to walk out your door with the feeling that they matter to you. Its not a very difficult principle to comprehend, but can sometimes be difficult to put in place if the staff are not all 100% behind.

And I am happy to say - Motorad in wellington will always get my dollar because they have always looked after me and i have always walked out their door feeling that I matter to their business - even when i havent spent a cent

[Quasievil]

If you look after your customers - they will look after you - short term, long term.

lol not always, couldn't tell you the amount of free stuff and cash I have given away to only have people go elsewhere (two smoke) or shaft me in other ways (carver)

people are people no matter how you look after them, everyone is out for themselves in this world, every time:yes:

[george formby]

Service & integrity are paramount for me. If I'm buying accessories i want honesty on how good they are (clothes, bling etc) & if somebody is working on my bike I really need to know they give a damn & stand by their work. Price is important but if it's a few bucks my loyalty stays with the shop thats loyal to me.
Food for thought Frosty, I see a lot of your posts but have no idea of your business name or whereabouts. As a member of this community I would pop in to say hello if I was passing & you never know what I may get my beady little eye on.
Good advertising/branding/marketing carries huge weight today, a good recognisable image sells & stays in the memory. If you deliver the goods then the priority is to get customers in the shop.
I'm guilty of not following my own advice, truck loads of bikes pass my street every week but I have no bikers popping in for a coffee. They don't know I exist.
Soooooo, if you want a really good coffee in Paihia or a bit of local knowledge pop into Boots Off on Kings Road & have yarn.:scooter:

If this against the forum rules, I apologise for my ignorance.

[FROSTY]

Yeah but no but yeah, you are totally wrong to the former question and the latter question is totally right or something like or unlike that.:blink:
Do wot??????????????????

[FROSTY]

Service & integrity are paramount for me. If I'm buying accessories i want honesty on how good they are (clothes, bling etc) & if somebody is working on my bike I really need to know they give a damn & stand by their work. Price is important but if it's a few bucks my loyalty stays with the shop thats loyal to me.
Food for thought Frosty, I see a lot of your posts but have no idea of your business name or whereabouts. As a member of this community I would pop in to say hello if I was passing & you never know what I may get my beady little eye on.
Good advertising/branding/marketing carries huge weight today, a good recognisable image sells & stays in the memory. If you deliver the goods then the priority is to get customers in the shop.
I'm guilty of not following my own advice, truck loads of bikes pass my street every week but I have no bikers popping in for a coffee. They don't know I exist.
Soooooo, if you want a really good coffee in Paihia or a bit of local knowledge pop into Boots Off on Kings Road & have yarn.:scooter:
Sorry dude I retail a few bikes but they are not my primary product.
The thread was prompted by another thread about remembering the old bike shops.

[george formby]

Sorry dude I retail a few bikes but they are not my primary product.
The thread was prompted by another thread about remembering the old bike shops.

I wll:shutup:my gob then:yes:

[Her_C4]

absolutely - havent bothered reading the posts, but if you dont provide good customer service, everything else falls to pieces. If you look after your customers - they will look after you - short term, long term. And looking after your customers can mean a million different things - latest products, best prices, ability to offer a deal, a smile for each and every person who walks in the door (even when having the shittiest day ever), remembering faces, willingness to do/get what the customer wants, even if not part of your core range. Its all about doing what you can to make your customer happy, to make them feel that they are special, that they matter and important to you as a business.
No matter what - your customer has to walk out your door with the feeling that they matter to you. Its not a very difficult principle to comprehend, but can sometimes be difficult to put in place if the staff are not all 100% behind.

And I am happy to say - Motorad in wellington will always get my dollar because they have always looked after me and i have always walked out their door feeling that I matter to their business - even when i havent spent a cent

I have to disagree - even as a buyer I will go to various shops to suss out price, availability etc and while one place may well provide a service they don't necessarily have the price or availability that I am after. I will usually openly go to three places, provide an opportunity for everyone to get on board and then decide the relative importance of each variable at that time.

I do agree however that lack of service does indeed (and has in the past) put me off a number of bike shops despite the fact that I had cash burning a hole in my pocket at the time (I have been known to cut my nose off to spite my face at times when I walk out of a shop and refuse to go back).

If however, my critical variable is price then I will deal with them despite shitty service (although usually I am not backward in saying so) :shit: , and I have been known to leave the shop offering the best and friendliest service purely on price.

As a customer, it is my right to spend my money how, when and where I choose (although I recently had to defend this right in public with a shop recently who felt they had provided me service (they hadn't), when I chose to drop a wad of cash elsewhere.)


lol not always, couldn't tell you the amount of free stuff and cash I have given away to only have people go elsewhere (two smoke) or shaft me in other ways (carver)

people are people no matter how you look after them, everyone is out for themselves in this world, every time:yes:

I agree. At the end of the day people are people and often have their own agenda.

[R-Soul]

I have to disagree - even as a buyer I will go to various shops to suss out price, availability etc and while one place may well provide a service they don't necessarily have the price or availability that I am after. I will usually openly go to three places, provide an opportunity for everyone to get on board and then decide the relative importance of each variable at that time.

.

Depends what you are talking about - if its about buying gimmicky stuff, yes people look around.

If its about srvicing your bike, then I really value a personal relationship with the shop. Small things, like
- throwing the keys to their truck and trailer to go pick up my bike when it broke down,
-giving an old tyre to me to keep me on the road (before next payday) when the back tyre had a puncture that could not be fixed.
- giving me honest, practical advice when required
- doing the services the way they say they would, and at reasonable prices.

They do what they can for me. I do what I can for them. I would not take my bike to another place, even if they were cheaper.

[MarkH]

I would suggest to ANY retailer that I have no loyalty whatsoever to any shop I buy from. If they continue to provide goods/services at a fair price and treat me well then I will continue to support them, but if someone else can provide the same goods/services at a better price while also treating me well then my money goes bye-bye.

BUT:
I keep on returning to the same retailers every time because the reason I went there initially hasn't changed. I keep going to Haldanes for parts & servicing because their prices seem reasonable and the service work has been faultless so far. I keep going to Motomail for accessories & gear because they have fair prices and the service I have gotten from them has been great. I buy my computer gear from PB Tech because their prices are within acceptable limits compared to elsewhere and they have the stock I want and they have never given me grief when I have had to return a faulty product. As long as these businesses don't make a change for the worse then they are likely to keep my custom.

Of course there would be other businesses that would offer good customer support & prices that I am not buying from, but I can't buy from everyone. Sometimes a shop can do everything right but not be in the right place to gain my business. Sometimes there just isn't enough demand for the products they are selling. It seems wrong that a good business might go bust and a bad business might make healthy profits every year - but sometimes that is just the way things go. But I have seen a bad business (run by an idiot) go under while a good business carries on and picks up the extra customers. I think the businesses with poor customer service that do really well are the exception, not the rule.

[R-Soul]

I would suggest to ANY retailer that I have no loyalty whatsoever to any shop I buy from. If they continue to provide goods/services at a fair price and treat me well then I will continue to support them, but if someone else can provide the same goods/services at a better price while also treating me well then my money goes bye-bye.

BUT:
I keep on returning to the same retailers every time because the reason I went there initially hasn't changed. I keep going to Haldanes for parts & servicing because their prices seem reasonable and the service work has been faultless so far. I keep going to Motomail for accessories & gear because they have fair prices and the service I have gotten from them has been great. I buy my computer gear from PB Tech because their prices are within acceptable limits compared to elsewhere and they have the stock I want and they have never given me grief when I have had to return a faulty product. As long as these businesses don't make a change for the worse then they are likely to keep my custom.

Of course there would be other businesses that would offer good customer support & prices that I am not buying from, but I can't buy from everyone. Sometimes a shop can do everything right but not be in the right place to gain my business. Sometimes there just isn't enough demand for the products they are selling. It seems wrong that a good business might go bust and a bad business might make healthy profits every year - but sometimes that is just the way things go. But I have seen a bad business (run by an idiot) go under while a good business carries on and picks up the extra customers. I think the businesses with poor customer service that do really well are the exception, not the rule.

The rule of thumb is that it is critical to keep customers once you have them, because they will come back out of force of habit, and because of their relationship with you.
What always get me in NZ is that businesses (like the power/electricty guys) always offer "sweetener" deals to new customers to change suppliers. If they offered half of the sweetener to existing customers as payback for longtime loyalty, they would retain a lot more customers than the new customers they bring on....

It costs half a much time, effort and money to retain old customers as to get new ones, but this goes largely unnoticed. Because there is less resistance to leaving the status quo as is than ther is to moving all your business to a new supplier.

How about a loyalty card, where, if you have spent $X in the last year, you are entitled to %X discount on goods? And no, not discount of the type where the prices are put up by %X first, but genuinely better prices.

[MarkH]

How about a loyalty card, where, if you have spent $X in the last year, you are entitled to %X discount on goods? And no, not discount of the type where the prices are put up by %X first, but genuinely better prices.

Not a terrible idea, but as long as a shop keeps up good service and fair prices (at least in range of the competitions prices) then I am happy to keep returning. The only problem with offering discounts to regulars is that there are then 2 prices and those paying more may not be happy to pay more. I prefer to see a good price for all.

[Conquiztador]

Not a terrible idea, but as long as a shop keeps up good service and fair prices (at least in range of the competitions prices) then I am happy to keep returning. The only problem with offering discounts to regulars is that there are then 2 prices and those paying more may not be happy to pay more. I prefer to see a good price for all.

Get a relationship with another company that is not in competition with you. Agree on some sort of working relationship where you both direct customers to each other. Say a "for every $1K you spend with us you will get a free whatsit from Antons Smoking Gun Shop". And Anton would have same thing going. You get customers in the door that would never have had a reason to come to you and so does Anton. All prices stay the same.

[carver]

lol not always, couldn't tell you the amount of free stuff and cash I have given away to only have people go elsewhere (two smoke) or shaft me in other ways (carver)

people are people no matter how you look after them, everyone is out for themselves in this world, every time:yes:

Oh, poor you, you sell me shit gear, and if i say i think its shit you get all angry.
Endless warranty claims do not make it good either, if that was true, Kia would be called good.
Give me all the free shit you want, its your choice.
Refer to this, i never slagged it off, but on here, you are a bit of a bully

http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/96537-My-gloves-have-a-hole!?

[Quasievil]

Oh, poor you, you sell me shit gear


it was a Free sample you moron cocksucking idiot:yes:

[BOMBER]

, you are a bit of a bully



I read a heap of your posts and youre a complete dick ,Quasi is a good prick he helped me out heaps hes the only one in this country that stands by and crashes in his own Kit, anyway fool whats the stunt shit all about anyway, talk about SUCK arse juice, you need to get a grip on your lacking ability as a stunter and take up knitting or some shit

[carver]

I read a heap of your posts and youre a complete dick ,Quasi is a good prick he helped me out heaps hes the only one in this country that stands by and crashes in his own Kit, anyway fool whats the stunt shit all about anyway, talk about SUCK arse juice, you need to get a grip on your lacking ability as a stunter and take up knitting or some shit

oh yeah, and i am the same in real life?

I am sure the owners of the other bike shops crash in the gear they sell too...

As for stunting, i dont think you can do any better, and what is a stunt?

got any more?

[BOMBER]

oh yeah, and i am the same in real life?

Yeah thats the word


I am sure the owners of the other bike shops crash in the gear they sell too...

Did they design it.........no dipshit they didnt


As for stunting, i dont think you can do any better, and what is a stunt?

Thats a definition you need to find out.............fast



got any more? [/QUOTE]

[tigertim20]

Is good customer service important to long term bikeshop survival and growth?

The question I would have thought should be really easy to answer. a resounding YES.
It does seem though that facts actually make a lie of this.

In Auckland I've been around long enough to see some pretty passionate and customer focussed shops come and go.Some in a fairly quick space of time.
Yet I see places where there are a fair few complaints about the atitudes and service offered still doing well.
There are exceptions of course but in one case the owner is still grafting hard out "on the tools" 10 years after opening the company.
What do you folks think explains this?
Or am I totally wrong here?

its down to relative experience. Here in dunedin, there is a bike shop, which I will not name. I have heard alot of people RAVE about the place. I have heard an equally large numer of people who swear against going near it.
There is a group of people I know, who had literally NEVER heard a single good thing about them, untill they met other people (who are now regular sicialisers in our bke scene).

Others, have only ever heard great things about this particular shop. In the past, I had one bad experience there. I refused to go back, until I was forced to one day. since that day, when I received exceptionally good treatment, I make them my first stop.

What im saying is that, the people YOU talk to, may hate a place, but you can gaurantee that theres another group out there that loves the place, and it is off that group a place survives. its a bit like bwing in auckland, and everyone says the south islanders all fuck sheep, but go to christchurch and everyone talks about how much they fuckin hate those wankers from auckland.... different strokes, different groups...
Treat me good as a customer, I will be loyal as, but fuck me around, and itll be a cold day in hell before you see me come through the door again

[gumboots4eva]

I see Henderson Motorcycles has now disappeared over to the Glenfield on the Shore. West Auckland Honda in New Lynn closed a while back. Is there anything out this way now...???

[carver]

it was a Free sample you moron cocksucking idiot:yes:

Well you butt fucking faggot, why'd you say, here, have these and test them, and when i ask, why the hole in the right one, you get all angry?


Yeah thats the word



Did they design it.........no dipshit they didnt



Thats a definition you need to find out.............fast



got any more? [/QUOTE]

If that is the word, why is it that almost all the KB members i have met in RL are on friendly terms with me?
Shit, I am off to a party this weekend with a fair few KBr's, and far from being shown the gate, it seems i am shown a beer or two!

Ya see its assholes like you and quasi that would like to paint me up as a genuine cunt, but the majority of people who have met me would beg to differ i think.

Design it or not, they stand by the gear they sell.

there is no definition....so fill me in, give me your definition

so what have you done that enables you to look down your nose at me?

[merv]

What amazes me with this thread and the "glove" thread is how quickly Quasievil posts foul language even when no-one else does that straight up. Is that all aimed at providing the right kind of communication to prospective clients of the type he wants?

As for shops, I've said before the customer service I need are opening hours that suit me, and then they do need to be able to get what I want quickly, so that means an element of knowing the business and where to source stuff. We all hate it when the part gets ordered and the wrong thing arrives.

[MarkH]

they do need to be able to get what I want quickly, so that means an element of knowing the business and where to source stuff. We all hate it when the part gets ordered and the wrong thing arrives.

I've ordered stuff at Motomail and they have been pretty good - giving me a call the next day or the day after that to let me know that my stuff is in. The right thing arrived each time too. All I ask is that they keep up the good work and in return I'll keep going back to them when I need stuff.

I haven't really had a problem with this sort of thing anywhere I shop yet.

[merv]

Bought my last purchase of riding gear from Motomail and agree they were good to deal with.

[Argyle]

a good customer service is paramount for any business!

[BOMBER]

What amazes me with this thread and the "glove" thread is how quickly Quasievil posts foul language even when no-one else does that straight up. Is that all aimed at providing the right kind of communication to prospective clients of the type he wants?



Why the fuck shouldnt he, Dickwad Carver spends his life abusing Quasievil, calling his son Gay as well as a host of other shit, Carver is a worthless non achieving Dick and Quasi is a good prick that helps bikers out.
Carver you suck ya mummies dick:yes:

[thehollowmen]

I'm going to say what is bleeding obvious to some people;
Large bike shops that put many customers through will have more 'issues' than small ones.

At work, I did a study of error rates, and the department we thought was the worst was actually the best because about half our work came from them.

If you have a large bikeshop that puts through a thousand customers, and ten have problems, that's still better than a bike shop that puts though fifty customers and has one problem. But with the huge way information travels these days, about nine hundred and ninty customers return, but the vocal few will voice their issues to many people, hence getting a reputation as being a 'bad' bike shop.

Maybe a bad bikeshop is actually a good one with a lot of custom?

[carver]

Why the fuck shouldnt he, Dickwad Carver spends his life abusing Quasievil, calling his son Gay as well as a host of other shit, Carver is a worthless non achieving Dick and Quasi is a good prick that helps bikers out.
Carver you suck ya mummies dick:yes:

spends his life....
thats a big call to make

you sound you like you know me really well...have we met?

[shrub]

are primarily customer knowledge and product knowledge. If you know your customers; and I don't just mean individual customers, but customers as a species, then you are much more likely to be able to deliver what they are looking for because you understand how they think and what's important to them - getting a customers bike on the road before a rally is vital if they're into rallys, just as getting the parts in time for the first race of the season is for a racer.

Second you need to have product knowledge. Not just the bikes you sell, but the gear and accessories so you can get their order right the first time or give them the right advice when they're buying, including viable alternatives to their first choice if it's not available or over priced. You also need a good knowledge of how the suppliers work and whether they have the goods in stock or if they need to be imported. I have ordered parts from the UK that were there before stuff ordered from Auckland because I knew when the goods would be shipped from the UK and ordered in time.

I used to work for a local bike shop, and I know they have some serious issues with customer service quality primarily because they don't look after and keep staff. They had a nearly 100% staff turnover in the time I was there, and every time they sacked someone or that person got pissed off and left they took with them knowledge of customers and product knowledge, and sadly that stuff can't be learnt in a few days.

[avgas]

I'd like to see your comments:
Thought I better let this one simmer a bit.....but it seems to have turned into a bit of a shit-fight.
So to pull it back on track....

Customer service does matter - but is not important to survival and growth of a bike shop. Bike shops are becoming the same as any other shops - as the customer base (people who want bikes) increases.
This means they can play by the same rules as other shops. We can have the Wallmarts of the bike industry appear (Operational Excellence) - where they can tell you to go fuck yourself....but you will still buy bikes and bike parts from them as they have other goodness (better range, cheaper prices). At the end of the days these stores are just shifting boxes......and for those of you who believe that this doesn't work go check the top 10 companies in the world. Most of them have this arrangement. Even petrol companies use this approach (more by the fact that they have you by the balls......but you get my drift).

Customer service is important if you don't want to play in this space however. Which is where I believe bike shops need to be aiming. The reason why is quite simple. If I don't like how you treat me, chances are I can find the same bike in another shop. So the only point of differentiation I have with you and all other shops is how you treat me. This tier is called customer intimacy. And it has its advantages. As customization is brought into the sale scope - you can up-sell me to a better model, or ask for any changes I might like. You get close and personal with me - and listen to what I have to say.

The next tier is product leadership. This is reserved for the top cats of the industry (Dues Ex, Customize etc). This area is incredibly hard to maintain, and most bike shops fail in this regard.....but the reward is fantastic. You product has to be the BEST. You have to look down on others, and treat your customers like gods. And they will quite happily pay the extravagant figures you ask for.

So there you have it, customer service is not paramount to survival and growth - but you have to pick how you market will work. Will you simply ramp up you sales by dropping you prices, or maintain your customer base by adding a bit of value? How much value do you want to add? Where do you see yourself?

The diagrams below should help you understand. Its for a supermarket - but you get the idea.

[Quasievil]

Thats a very good post Avgas
To succeed of course customer service is primary, in a course I attended recently you need one or more of these three things to succeed in Business, as you said avgas but in different language (with examples)

Product excellence ............ie Mercedes or perhaps Ipod

In time, in spec, within price....... McDonald's or perhaps toyota

Love............ a Band, or your favorite bike shop

to break it down

Product excellence
Mercedes have fairly much got it nailed , the product is excellent its refined and very well regarded as one of the best cars in the world, yes expensive but its the best (yes somewhat arguable, but use BMW or Rolex watches , you get the point)

In Time, in spec, within price, convenient to buy
McDonald s is a great example, the burgers themselves are kinda average, there are heaps of nicer burgers, burger fuel for example, but Macdonald's have it sussed, crap burgers are readily available, always at the same spec, they are fast, and reasonably cheap.

Love and admiration
You might offer a average product but you are successful because the customers just plainly love you, a good example is a Band, say I dunno U2.....you might love U2 and it wouldn't matter what the new album was like you would buy it because you just love these guys

If you can tick one or two of these boxes (cant have three) you will succeed.

Food for thought if youre starting a business, think about if you can tick one or more of these boxes.

[CHOPPA]

Havnt read much of the thread but from what i can see......

I have a set of Quasimofo gloves and they are the best gloves i have owned, they were not sponsored, I paid for them unlike some other top end gloves I have been given that fell apart so quick, these gloves have remained soft and in great condition. I can honestly say that they have been the best gloves I have owned.

As far as Carver goes, yes he is actually a good c*&t and that is prob why Quasi gave him some gloves to test and if he ever saw him in town im sure he would sit and laugh about all this over a beer.

Carver doesnt take this site very seriously just like the little wanker sidewinder haha all they aim to do is wind people up however they can

[phill-k]

Thought I better let this one simmer a bit.....but it seems to have turned into a bit of a shit-fight.
So to pull it back on track....

Customer service does matter - but is not important to survival and growth of a bike shop. Bike shops are becoming the same as any other shops - as the customer base (people who want bikes) increases.
Have to disagree with you on that statement. You refer to the top ten businesses in the world / service stations / and your diagrams relate to supermarkets, all businesses with low margins high turnover items. These businesses deal in fast selling, everyday items and yes customer service is a minor key to survival, the necessity being just enough to prevent an "opposition" establishing itself. I would venture to say with NZ's small population / marketplace Bike Shops who take on this type of approach will eventually fail.


This means they can play by the same rules as other shops. We can have the Wallmarts of the bike industry appear (Operational Excellence) - where they can tell you to go fuck yourself....but you will still buy bikes and bike parts from them as they have other goodness (better range, cheaper prices). At the end of the days these stores are just shifting boxes......and for those of you who believe that this doesn't work go check the top 10 companies in the world. Most of them have this arrangement. Even petrol companies use this approach (more by the fact that they have you by the balls......but you get my drift).

I don't believe the market in NZ is big enough for a Bikeshop to approach the product they are selling as a high volume low margin product, Wallmart / The Warehouse / Supermarket type operations rely on large turnover of stock, as I said above other aspects to these operations are more important to their survival than Customer service. A business that sells big ticket items in the luxury / non necessity market needs to treat their customers well this is integral to ensuring they return. As an example I am a returning biker, I guess all things being equal I will probably purchase 3 - 5 more bikes in the next years to come, as a bikeshop if you make my purchase an enjoyable experience I will return, argue over a first service bill ($70) and that will be the most expensive piece of negative advertising you will ever do. A happy customer tells about 5 people their experience, a pissed off customer can now go on line (this forum for example) and tell the world.


Customer service is important if you don't want to play in this space however. Which is where I believe bike shops need to be aiming. The reason why is quite simple. If I don't like how you treat me, chances are I can find the same bike in another shop. So the only point of differentiation I have with you and all other shops is how you treat me. This tier is called customer intimacy. And it has its advantages. As customization is brought into the sale scope - you can up-sell me to a better model, or ask for any changes I might like. You get close and personal with me - and listen to what I have to say.

I believe if a BikeShop is to survive as much emphasis needs to be placed on all that is customer service, along with product quality and demand, location, competition, advertising, cost control, any of these items in isolation does not ensure survival, however the absence of any of these will ensure the operation does not survive. Things like product quality and demand actually is an aspect of customer service as is pricing your product to the market.


The next tier is product leadership. This is reserved for the top cats of the industry (Dues Ex, Customize etc). This area is incredibly hard to maintain, and most bike shops fail in this regard.....but the reward is fantastic. You product has to be the BEST. You have to look down on others, and treat your customers like gods. And they will quite happily pay the extravagant figures you ask for.

Agree here but this is the very essence of customer service, but the market size also plays an important role here, if you don't have the numbers of customers with the ability to pay you don't have sufficient profit to cover your costs. NZ is moving further and further away from having a large base of significant earners with the ability to fund high end luxury purchases.



So there you have it, customer service is not paramount to survival and growth - but you have to pick how you market will work. Will you simply ramp up you sales by dropping you prices, or maintain your customer base by adding a bit of value? How much value do you want to add? Where do you see yourself?

The diagrams below should help you understand. Its for a supermarket - but you get the idea.

Not sure how you come to this statement as again your charts are for an operator in a high volume, low margin market where the cost to set up in opposition is immense. I just can't see where you see a market in NZ where a Bikeshop would have a large enough customer base to survive on volume alone.

[avgas]

Have to disagree with you on that statement. You refer to the top ten businesses in the world / service stations / and your diagrams relate to supermarkets.......read the rest of his quote you lazy sods its just below, and very good
Cheers Phill, you have actually opened up to the key point (that I have tried to raise in other threads but been shot down).
However just to clear something up - the top 10 company thing - yes they all move high quantity or have well invested amounts in certain things. The petrol company stuff (not "service" station) I put in there for the context as they have you buy the balls until an alternative comes around, then they will have to compete on price. Wallmart/Warehouses etc are a choice. You choose to buy from them. So in-depth research (fuck knows who would bother) tells us that it is essentially a price war in that area.
Which brings me back to the point you brought up (or I set the trap for - sorry). But NZ is fucking small. If you are going to compete in the low end of the market - and not offer some kind of difference in your stores other than price (with a bad attitude). Your fucked.
People would rather buy off e-bay than you.

So the conclusion (as Phil discovered)
Can you afford to have no service? Can you fight it out in a price war alone?
If so - you don't need customer service.......

[Edbear]

Havnt read much of the thread but from what i can see......

I have a set of Quasimofo gloves and they are the best gloves i have owned, they were not sponsored, I paid for them unlike some other top end gloves I have been given that fell apart so quick, these gloves have remained soft and in great condition. I can honestly say that they have been the best gloves I have owned.

As far as Carver goes, yes he is actually a good c*&t and that is prob why Quasi gave him some gloves to test and if he ever saw him in town im sure he would sit and laugh about all this over a beer.

Carver doesnt take this site very seriously just like the little wanker sidewinder haha all they aim to do is wind people up however they can

:gob: Surely, you're not suggesting members actually set out to wind others up on here..???!!! :shit:

[carver]

oooh, red rep from bomber

"youre a dick cause you clearly are nothing but a Jealous looser, yes we met recently actually and youre a dick in real like to for the record"

I would like to know when you met me, cause i aint met any kbr's in quite a while...
you know me so well.....

Whats is the brand of leather i wear?


Havnt read much of the thread but from what i can see......

I have a set of Quasimofo gloves and they are the best gloves i have owned, they were not sponsored, I paid for them unlike some other top end gloves I have been given that fell apart so quick, these gloves have remained soft and in great condition. I can honestly say that they have been the best gloves I have owned.

As far as Carver goes, yes he is actually a good c*&t and that is prob why Quasi gave him some gloves to test and if he ever saw him in town im sure he would sit and laugh about all this over a beer.

Carver doesnt take this site very seriously just like the little wanker sidewinder haha all they aim to do is wind people up however they can

Haha, cheers chop, i should catch up with ya sometime when sidewinder is not "greasing" your "linkage"

[carver]

Why the fuck shouldnt he, Dickwad Carver spends his life abusing Quasievil, calling his son Gay as well as a host of other shit, Carver is a worthless non achieving Dick and Quasi is a good prick that helps bikers out.
Carver you suck ya mummies dick:yes:

hang on, i know who you are, it all has "cum clear"

your quasi's gay son!

[Quasievil]

hang on, i know who you are, it all has "cum clear"

your quasi's gay son!

Cant be gay, as my son says your mom gives good gummy head:shutup:

Actually he mentions she dont swallow as she had a bad experience with you.

[tri boy]

Whats is the brand of leather i wear?


"Arseless chaps", by Nigel and Elliot of Ponsonby I'm picking.

[BOMBER]

hang on, i know who you are, it all has "cum clear"

your quasi's gay son!

As much as I know that would turn your gay self on, sadly no

is it true that you Mom takes your load tho?

[carver]

Cant be gay, as my son says your mom gives good gummy head:shutup:

Actually he mentions she dont swallow as she had a bad experience with you.


"Arseless chaps", by Nigel and Elliot of Ponsonby I'm picking.


As much as I know that would turn your gay self on, sadly no

is it true that you Mom takes your load tho?

whats all this about my "mom"
you got to be a yank to say it like that.
my mum is on here with the username "mom"

[Str8 Jacket]

Grow up boy's, grow up!

[phill-k]

Here we are the only intelligent thoughtful thread on here at the moment and you boys come out beating ya bloody cocks.

Can we get back on topic now please:yes:

[Quasievil]

Sorry from us, but its what we do.

[Number One]

Apologies I haven't read everything in here...seen this thread a few times and thought FUCK YES it matters! And just recently this was brought home to me....and I think that all retailers of anything should be aware we DO vote with our feet and take our money elsewhere (I'm doing it today in fact!).

Anyway it's quite nice to be in a position to choose where you spend your money and I have been taking this quite seriously of late opting even to pay slightly more to give my money to a business/person I feel good about. These businesses make an effort to help you (the customer) find a solution. Flat NO's followed by ill informed lectures are not good for business and not a great way of encouraging your customers to come back.

Customer service matters - people don't always remember what you said to them but they always remember how YOU made them feel! I give my money to those who make me feel good - don't fawn over me or blow sunshine up my kilt BUT they should act in a way that portrays that they actually do value my wallet I mean custom. FFS

I look forward to collecting my new helmet today - ordered in specially for me from my local store....I won't be purchasing it from the store I found it in and I personally won't spend money there again. SO THERE :bleh:

[Number One]

ha ha haaa judging by the look of the last couple of posts I didn't miss anything by not reading it...just another dust up between Quasi and Carver (oh and some others with nothing better to do)...ho hum

[avgas]

ha ha haaa judging by the look of the last couple of posts I didn't miss anything by not reading it...just another dust up between Quasi and Carver (oh and some others with nothing better to do)...ho hum
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[Number One]

days of our lives....

It's just 'fun' I have been informed....fun for whom I thought?

The pigtail pulling man lovin/hating is tedious...film a proper punch up and I might find it 'fun' to watch he he he he

[FROSTY]

Apologies I haven't read everything in here...seen this thread a few times and thought FUCK YES it matters! And just recently this was brought home to me....and I think that all retailers of anything should be aware we DO vote with our feet and take our money elsewhere (I'm doing it today in fact!).
Customer service matters - people don't always remember what you said to them but they always remember how YOU made them feel!
Im hearing ya but how do you explain it that in dauckland shops well known for (at best) so/so service are still around and others touted as being topho at looking after customers have gone belly up?
Will your loyalty still be there when contemplating putting down 10-20k on a bike and "that other shop" has the bike $1000 cheaper?
I'm NOT having a go at you in any way number1. Your way of thinking is the very reason people in sales are encouraged to look after their customers. I just wonder how far the loyalty will go

[Number One]

Im hearing ya but how do you explain it that in dauckland shops well known for (at best) so/so service are still around and others touted as being topho at looking after customers have gone belly up?
Will your loyalty still be there when contemplating putting down 10-20k on a bike and "that other shop" has the bike $1000 cheaper?
I'm NOT having a go at you in any way number1. Your way of thinking is the very reason people in sales are encouraged to look after their customers. I just wonder how far the loyalty will go

You are preaching the converted to be fair. Hubby was in the business for years and I only EVER spent money at that shop.

It's funny to think about it further actually, I realise I have no qualms about looking for the cheapest on the day for pretty much every non biking related purchase I make. WHY? Because I don't have an ongoing relationship with the girl at the checkout in Farmers or the snotty bitch in that label store I brought a dress from the other day...I don't need any advise or ongoing support from them you see...and unless the item is faulty I probably won't have anything at all to do with that cash register (I mean person) again.

My BIKE however is an ongoing love affair. I will be a rider for the remainder of my days...well until I can't be helped onto it anyway. Bet your arse too that I have already decided who I'm buying my next bike from....and who I won't for that matter....

While it will be a ways off yet - I haven't even decided what will be next...it will be NEW!!!! That 'loyalty' is because I always get treated like I (not just my wallet) matter and that they want to see me happy and looked after in my riding...and shit they might be faking it but it feels genuine to me :)

[avgas]

Likewise, if I ever buy a brand new bike and I don't have budget. I am going to Blackwoods Yamaha (Cambridge).

Those guys save my skin when my bearing collapsed on the FZ.........it was past customer service, it was determination.