Who's accountable

[eliot-ness]

Accountability seems to be the buzz word at the moment. Whatever we do OSH is there to guide and keep us safe. All very commendable. None of us are capable of bringing up the kids, painting the house, or even having a shower without political guidance. But who's accountable for the dangerous road conditions we encounter every day, Diesel spills, can't do much about them. Effluent from stock trucks. Rules are there but not enforced. New chip seal, usually signposted. But what about the rest..Potholes on corners, badly repaired surfaces, dangerous methods of repair, usually the cheapest method availlable. These, and many more hazards make N.Z.s roads bloody dangerous, but mention accountability and politicians run for cover. Transit do a pretty good job on the main highways, main problem seems to be local authorities penny pinching on maintainance with the usual political excuse, lack of money. These people are given the responsibility of keeping our roads safe. If they fail in that responsibility they should be legally liable for the consequences. A case in the U.K. in the 60s where a rider who was prosecuted for ridng without due care and causing an accident, proved that the accident was in fact caused by a pothole. He claimed damages from the local council, and won. Hazard signs sprang up like mushrooms overnight and roads improved 100%. Has anyone tried taking authorities to court here??. Laws here seem to be similar to U.K. Why not get Bronz/A.A. to look into it.???


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Got a bike for the wife.....................bloody good swap.

[Ixion]

Accountability seems to be the buzz word at the moment. Whatever we do OSH is there to guide and keep us safe. All very commendable. ..Diesel spills, can't do much about them. Effluent from stock trucks. Rules are there but not enforced. New chip seal, usually signposted. But what about the rest..Potholes on corners, badly repaired surfaces, dangerous methods of repair, usually the cheapest method availlable. These, and many more hazards make N.Z.s roads bloody dangerous, but mention accountability and politicians run for cover. ..A case in the U.K. in the 60s where a rider who was prosecuted for ridng without due care and causing an accident, proved that the accident was in fact caused by a pothole. He claimed damages from the local council, and won. Hazard signs sprang up like mushrooms overnight and roads improved 100%. Has anyone tried taking authorities to court here??. Laws here seem to be similar to U.K. Why not get Bronz/A.A. to look into it.???


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Got a bike for the wife.....................bloody good swap.

Don't get me started on this topic. Over the years I've jousted at all the governmental windmills, without the slightest success. You missed my particular bete noire though, that damned white paint. That is particularly galling because it actually costs the council money to make the road unsafe.

But the universal attitude from ALL governmental bodies is that they would prefer there to be no motorcycles, are totally disinterested in anything that makes the roads dangerous for them , and if a few bikers get killed, so much the better.

The official response is pretty much "Well, if xxxx makes the roads dangerous for motorcycles, then motorcycles shouldn't be on the roads". If cages don't have a problem there is no problem.

And BRONZ is almost moribund, and little more than a timid pussy even when it wasn't.


Some guy did take a local council to court about unsignposted road works (he crashed) and won, there was quite a long thread about it a while back

[ManDownUnder]

I am "lucky" enough to do a bit of business up in the States... and I fear we are heading towards their model of "responsibility".

If it doesn't have a warning, you're expected not to know about the dangers and someone else is therefore accoutable for your actions.

Who would have known that sticking a knoife in the power socket would electrocute little Jimmy? They should put a sign on the knife, and the plug to warn against that!

What gets me is that anytime I go up to a trade show I have to sign off on a documentation (13 pages of...) to say I agree to this and that, am suitably insured etc. I need a MINIMUM of $10,000,000 indemnity insurance. Just in case I do something and get sued.

There is now so much time and space taken up with warning signs and information, it is not humanly possible to take it all in, analyse it and apply it.

But they do it to stay out of trouble.

Go figure!
MDU

[eliot-ness]

My wife drives from Warkkworth to the city daily and regularly reports dangerous road conditions, i.e. potholes on the inside lane of the hill approaching Waiwera forcing traffic into overtaking lane. She was thanked very politely and told this was the first report of a problem. Hazard signs were in place next day and repairs started within a week. Maybe as a group motor cyclists and car drivers are not militant enough. Individuals don't sway government departments.

[Ixion]

My wife drives from Warkkworth to the city daily and regularly reports dangerous road conditions, i.e. potholes on the inside lane of the hill approaching Waiwera forcing traffic into overtaking lane. She was thanked very politely and told this was the first report of a problem. Hazard signs were in place next day and repairs started within a week. Maybe as a group motor cyclists and car drivers are not militant enough. Individuals don't sway government departments.

Auckland City Council are also good with potholes - Mrs Ixion reports one most weeks and they send a truck round quite quickly.

It's the systemic things they do not do well. Pot holes are dealt with by "ordinary blokes", who just treat it as a job of work. It's when you get into the bureaucratic levels that it all goes 'orrible.

And me, for me, I certainly think motorcycle groups ought to be more militant.

We used to be, I remember the huige meeting at the Auckland Town Hall when ACC originally tried to increase the levioes by an absurd amount (early 70's I guess).

But then bikes got pretty much driven off the road and got all timid.

[mikey]

your accountable for your own shit. you choose it.

[Hitcher]

I blame the Labour government...

[jazbug5]

I have to agree. If local government is to be resposible for maintaining road surfacing, and assuming there is some way of ensuring that the funding is there regardless of the comparitive wealth of the locals, then there ought to be inspections and standards should be enforced. I don't think it's over the top to suggest this- who want to encounter a bloody great pothole as you round a tight bend? I nearly came off in Northland because there was this bizzarre hump (invisible until on it) right on the apex of one. Not fun...

[Lou Girardin]

If there was a national bike lobby group that was well supported it may be possible to challenge some of the worst anti-biker decisions in court. A couple of wins would change attitudes. At the moment we just moan to each other.

[SPman]

I blame the Labour government...

I blame Mr Hitcher.

[Ixion]

I blame Mr Hitcher.

I think Mr Hitcher is the Labour government.

[Hitcher]

I think Mr Hitcher is the Labour government.
Fuck. I've been outted... (contemplates "suicide by bureaucracy")

[Flyingpony]

I like how the system is marking lanes for cyclists at intersections. It's really good to see them giving more space to cyclists, but do they have to paint those things too?

That's a massive painted surface to ride very carefully over / around on a motorcycle and typically they're always found covering critical positions. The busiest intersections I ride through are generously covered with it and on wet days cars dislike my fall avoidance caution ie slowness over painted cycle lanes at corners.

Did the people think about motorcycle safety before those red strips were painted?

[Mr Skid]

I like how the system is marking lanes for cyclists at intersections. It's really good to see them giving more space to cyclists, but do they have to paint those things too?
What would you suggest? Chalk outlines?

[eliot-ness]

What would you suggest? Chalk outlines?
They used to use non slip paint. Think it contained silica sand. Pretty effective.Maybe it was too expensive so they left the sand out.

[Ixion]

They used to use non slip paint. Think it contained silica sand. Pretty effective.Maybe it was too expensive so they left the sand out.

Yes, there are non slip "paints" available. It is purely a matter of cost. Moreover, why must there be so MUCH of the damn stuff. Fully 50% of the paint could be eliminated without any loss of safety or information. So intersections are an almost total sea of paint. Customs St/ Anzac Ave/Beach Rd is an example

[Monsterbishi]

They used to use non slip paint. Think it contained silica sand. Pretty effective.Maybe it was too expensive so they left the sand out.

The silica laced paint wears out far too quickly for use on roads, anything more than light daily foot traffic and it wears down very quickly.

[madboy]

It's pretty damn simple, really. The Govt cares about one thing - remaining in power. Local Govt to a similar extent is the same. Roads and motorcyclists do not equal a sufficient portion of the vote to be worthy of notice.

Fact is, there are more poor, uneducated dumbf***s in this world who are more interested in cheap healthcare (while "rich" educated folk like me pay for them), increased government hand outs (aka WINZ) and cheap accommodation (aka Housing NZ and Corrections). Having the pigs give their not even teenage kids a ride home at 2am each weekday morning is a help too... saves on taxi fares or even the unnecessary need to be a good parent/rolemodel cos by that stage you're passed out drunk.

So why the hell would anyone give a rats arse if the odd motorcyclist who is probably not in the category above (unless they stole if from one of us rich oppressors(sp)) bins it on some poorly maintained road? Aren't the needs (that's spelt W A N T S) of 100,000 losers (and registered voters) more important that 1 good member of society? We live in a democracy!!

[Ixion]

It's pretty damn simple, really. The Govt cares about one thing - remaining in power. Local Govt to a similar extent is the same. Roads and motorcyclists do not equal a sufficient portion of the vote to be worthy of notice.

Fact is, there are more poor, uneducated dumbf***s in this world who are more interested in cheap healthcare (while "rich" educated folk like me pay for them), increased government hand outs (aka WINZ) and cheap accommodation (aka Housing NZ and Corrections). Having the pigs give their not even teenage kids a ride home at 2am each weekday morning is a help too... saves on taxi fares or even the unnecessary need to be a good parent/rolemodel cos by that stage you're passed out drunk.

So why the hell would anyone give a rats arse if the odd motorcyclist who is probably not in the category above (unless they stole if from one of us rich oppressors(sp)) bins it on some poorly maintained road? Aren't the needs (that's spelt W A N T S) of 100,000 losers (and registered voters) more important that 1 good member of society? We live in a democracy!!


The saving grace is that, by and large, a large percentage of the people you identify don't actually vote, either from apathy or stupidity (or both).

And the politicians are aware of this.

[Pixie]

They used to use non slip paint. Think it contained silica sand. Pretty effective.Maybe it was too expensive so they left the sand out.
Silica sand ,now how's that for redundancy?

[Hitcher]

Out for a fang today, riding over the Haywards road in the wet. Not only are the white lines, particularly the left-hand continuous ones slippery as, they're also raised up several mm higher than the road. Lethal. Gave myself a bit of a thrill clipping one apex.

[Indiana_Jones]

None of us are capable of bringing up the kids, painting the house, or even having a shower without political guidance.

Welcome to the nanny state that is Helengrad..... :oi-grr:

-Indy

[FROSTY]

personal accountability -shhesh aint it simple really

[Squiggles]

Out for a fang today, riding over the Haywards road in the wet. Not only are the white lines, particularly the left-hand continuous ones slippery as, they're also raised up several mm higher than the road. Lethal. Gave myself a bit of a thrill clipping one apex.


yeh, i've seen quite a bit of that lately......

if i was to single out the most dangerous area i've seen lately, it would have to be the greenlane roundabout (the one next to foodtown where you enter and leave the motorway) , the thing has soo many holes and bits of paint on it that i end up slowing to a crawl when going around it :no:

[Marmoot]

Just a quick thought.....especially for business owners....

If OSH meddles with your workplace enough to cause you distress and mental depression, can you sue them and claim ACC compensation as well?

[XP@]

Out for a fang today, riding over the Haywards road in the wet. Not only are the white lines, particularly the left-hand continuous ones slippery as, they're also raised up several mm higher than the road. Lethal. Gave myself a bit of a thrill clipping one apex.
Is that anywhere near where they have the cheese cutters?
If so then there should be a complaint raised, probably by Bronz, They have already made a number of submissions in this area.

[Gremlin]

Those cycle lanes are a good idea and all to separate the cyclists away from traffic and hopefully prevent themselves from getting clipped, but the biggest problem is it serves as another gutter.

All the road debris is flicked up by cars and pushed to the side. But because there is a cycle lane where cars do not travel, all the crap lands there. One place of occurence was the end of Orlando Drive over the bridge into Manukau.

And green paint at intersections, visible to blind cagers, but slippery as heck to anything with less than 4 wheels.