Coming to a track near you, seat belts and roll bars

[Danger]

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10660215

[Devil]

It's sad that people feel that we have to save others from themselves.

[neels]

Hang on, they've fined the company he worked for for letting him ride the thing when he wasn't competent. Isn't that the end of the story?

Someone who isn't competent could park themselves upside down in a creek and drown, should we make scuba gear compulsory as well?

Or should we just rely on personal responsibility, and if people don't know how to operate something properly they should leave it the fuck alone.

[4stroke]

then the next thing will be having to wear full 19th century battle armour to milk the cows so when i get kicked i dont hurt myself, as for the roll bars it'll be the first thing that i take off my farm bike when it arrives.

[theblacksmith]

Looking back at my dirt riding,trail rides etc -come to think of it I have seen horrific quad accidents. Ive also seen accidents (and had a few myself) on two wheelers, but I have to say quads create cruel and very sad outcomes. With a two wheeler you very often have the chance to bail off or send the bike in a different direction. A quad is MUCH heavier and will roll like a sausage if the type of accident causes this. I would hate to be in the path of a rolling quad. Ive even seen a guy pull a wheelie with one and ended up stuck underneath a 700cc quad. He was screaming for help.
I also catch up to a lot of them on trails and find them not the safest things to pass.
A friend of mine had the tank of a quad smash his face in. The tank had a75 mm deep dent in it.
He was in hospital for 3and a half months with steel rods screwed into his skull everywhere and it was all held together by a frame. He was on liquids for best part of the hospital stay and went through 3 operations on his facial bones. He was trying to do a 3 point turn on a single lane which had stone walls each side and he looked back to reverse,but the quad was still in 1st gear(rev light didnt work on dash) - so he throttled it and it climbed the stone wall and flipped right over on his head which also hit the tarmac. Hes lucky to be alive. Just imagine the consequences if he had a roll cage. So I reckon its a good idea to guard them all. People ride them to live not die or harm themselves. I wonder what acc say in all this? Prevention is better and usually cheaper than a cure.

And I would also like to add that the manufacturers should be building all these machines with compulsory ROPS on them.
Quads are needed- I once saw a paralyzed man do a whole A loop with a farm quad not long ago near Raglan. He had to be lifted onto the quad by others and I admired his courage and determination.

[FlangMasterJ]

Seatbelt on a quad???!?

Because it's alot safer to have the 300kg vehicle stay connected to you when you roll over. :angry:

[RJM]

I work in the transport industry where we have a large number of different vehicles all of which require different licences and certificates.

I'm suprised OSH haven't classed a farm bike (notice I say farm bike and not generalise quad bikes) as a work resource / vehicle and therefore require a handling certificate just like a forklift requires. Obviously there would have to be a number of conditions like minimum age etc but I don't think it would be a bad idea.

[scott411]

I work in the transport industry where we have a large number of different vehicles all of which require different licences and certificates.

I'm suprised OSH haven't classed a farm bike (notice I say farm bike and not generalise quad bikes) as a work resource / vehicle and therefore require a handling certificate just like a forklift requires. Obviously there would have to be a number of conditions like minimum age etc but I don't think it would be a bad idea.

i think this is a good post on the matter, but the problem with enforcing such things is that Farmers are so far apart, and in remote places it is very hard to enforce,

lack of training as in this death, and lack of proper maintenance (as in explained above, reverse light not working) is some of the biggest problems,

as for them on trail rides, the percentages of injuries of quads are roughly the same as for 2 wheelers compared to the amount of riders

[B0000M]

as for them on trail rides, the percentages of injuries of quads are roughly the same as for 2 wheelers compared to the amount of riders

i wonder what the stats would indicate if distance covered was factored in though.....

but thats off topic.


i think 100 deaths in a decade is bugger all really considering the amount of quad bikes in use in nz on the steep country that nz is, and considering how 'rugged' some of the users are. i wouldnt've thought it was an issue to worry about

[tommorth]

Alittle education and training would be a good idea sending somone out on a quad who has no experence is just daft.
10 people a year isn't many really wonder how many people drown going fishing off the rocks, or how many dick heads get drunk when there are out fishing and sink there boat???

I can remember going to a mates farm where the quads had roll bars and when there were two people on the quad the passenger would stand up and pull back on the bar to lift the front wheels off the ground.....

[schrodingers cat]

i think 100 deaths in a decade is bugger all really considering the amount of quad bikes in use in nz on the steep country that nz is, and considering how 'rugged' some of the users are. i wouldnt've thought it was an issue to worry about

Absolutely agree.

Whoever suggested they are a toy anyway?

Here's the problem:
To get an object to roll over all you need to do is move the COG (Centre of Gravity - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_of_gravity) outside of the objects/vehicles 'track' (width)

The higher the COG the less rotation required. For all the simple souls, this is why a tall bar stool is easier to tip over than a low bar stool.

The quad bike COG is designed to be sensibly low for stability. Adding the rider's mass raises the COG of the combination.

The rider of course is dynamic and can influence the stability of the machine by moving their mass appropriately.

Most roll over protection needs to meet a design criteria of (usually) 2.5x the weight of the vehicle/rider laterally and longitudally and would need to be designed large enough to accommodate great big bastards.

So the static weight of the protective structure would raise the COG of the vehicle detrimentally and potentially destabilise it.

Widening the track and lengthening the wheelbase could improve stability but then that would be a tractor wouldn't it?

So sorry - a rollcage on a quad is a no starter.
I think a major improement to quad safety could be made by stiffening the sidewalls on the tyres cockies use. How many of you have tucked a tyre under and gotten spat off a quad? Esp when travelling along the side of a hill and deciding to turn suddenly uphill...

[schrodingers cat]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollover

Vehicles usually roll over due to one of several mechanisms. These are excessive cornering, tripping, collision with another vehicle or object, or traversing a critical slope.

Excessive cornering rollovers occur when cornering forces destabilize the vehicle. As a vehicle rounds a corner, three forces act on it: tire forces, inertial effects, and gravity. The cornering forces from the tire push the vehicle towards the center of the curve. This force acts at ground level. The force of inertia acts horizontally through the vehicle's center of mass in the direction opposite to the one it is turning. These two forces make the vehicle roll towards the outside of the curve. The force of the vehicle's weight acts downward through the center of mass in the opposite direction. When the tire and inertial forces are enough to overcome the force of gravity, the vehicle starts to turn over. Most passenger vehicles will slide or spin before this happens, but this is a common type of rollover for taller vehicles, including light trucks (SUVs, vans and pickup trucks), busses and heavy trucks.

Tripping rollovers occur when a vehicle is sliding sideways, and the tires strike a curb, dig into soft ground, suddenly regain traction, or a similar event occurs that results in a sudden lateral force. The physics are similar to cornering rollovers.

A collision with another vehicle or object can cause a rollover. These occur when the collision causes the vehicle to become unstable, such as when a narrow object causes one side of the vehicle to accelerate upwards, but not the other, causing the vehicle to rotate along its long axis. A side impact can accelerate a vehicle sideways. The tires resist the change, and the coupled forces rotate the vehicle.

A rollover can also occur as a vehicle crosses a ditch or slope rather than a flat road surface. Slopes that are steeper than one unit vertically for every three units horizontally are termed 'critical slopes' and often contribute to rollovers.

[Ktmboy]

Mr Smith should do more research.
Blue Wing Honda have been heavily invovled in all the testing regarding quad safety and to summerise the findings are that a roll bar and/or safety belt would further limit the operator to escape injury. In fact they would result in further injury. So I've heard.
www.osh.dol.govt.nz/order/catalogue/pdf/atvguide2.pdf -
This is presently being debated from every man and his dog so the findings have not been ratified.

Truth in fact, shit happens. We are a farming community. I tipped up the quad today making out (slow speed) but knew that it was likely to happen so was hanging of the side ready to bail.

Training does help.

[honda_power]

iv rolled my fair share of farm quads... id def be dead if i had a seatbelt on... thats ridiculous

rollbars have been proven to cause more deaths than not having one which is why hardly anyone runs them these days... 10 years ago everyone had rollbars.

Personally i blame independent suspension quads that are starting to become the norm these days... they may handle bumps better but they tip easy on steeper terrain.
Also people that feel the need to go 60km everywhere... so easy to tip at higher speeds

[scott411]

i disagree with the irs causing more roll overs, i ride both types often and there is very little difference, however quads are getting faster, 10 years ago the biggest quad made was a 500 and most people still ran 300's, now quads are up to 800cc and most people are on 400cc or bigger,

totally agree with roll bars being worse, having ridden quads with them i hate them, you need to be able to get away from a quad when it goes, and a roll bar prevents that,

as for the suggestion of the harder side walls, it is a good plan, but it takes away the traction that the people need form them,

[honda_power]

i disagree with the irs causing more roll overs, i ride both types often and there is very little difference, however quads are getting faster, 10 years ago the biggest quad made was a 500 and most people still ran 300's, now quads are up to 800cc and most people are on 400cc or bigger,

totally agree with roll bars being worse, having ridden quads with them i hate them, you need to be able to get away from a quad when it goes, and a roll bar prevents that,

as for the suggestion of the harder side walls, it is a good plan, but it takes away the traction that the people need form them,

yeap, nothing could beat a honda big red 300.

when i was on a farm we had a yamaha 350 and a 400 with independent rear... perhaps it was just that model but it liked to roll. Or maybe the suspension gives you a false sense of security as its hugging the ground, and when it does go its too late to do anything but jump out of the way. Never had any close calls on the 350.

Great quads though, i had the 400 bouncing down a hill and all i bent was the rear carrier

[schrodingers cat]

as for the suggestion of the harder side walls, it is a good plan, but it takes away the traction that the people need form them,

Oh I know why they're fitted...
And I know that lowering the pressure helps enormously at the expense of stability and safety.

So now we're between a rock and a hard place.
ACC want to rid the world of anything dangerous
The Polly's won't ban quads but want to back ACC.

What happens now is that highly opinionated and ill informed media will conduct 'investigations' until the NEXT BIG THING catches their interest. The fuss will die down until the next time there is a paucity of news and the story will get dusted off. Repeat ad nauseum

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-493058/Frightened-death-Why-scare-stories-REAL-menace.html
http://www.anorak.co.uk/scare-stories/

[CRF119]

who cares learning the hard way is the best way, or am i to old school for this politicly correct world.

[Expert]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rollover

Vehicles usually roll over due to one of several mechanisms. These are excessive cornering, tripping, collision with another vehicle or object, or traversing a critical slope.

Excessive cornering rollovers occur when cornering forces destabilize the vehicle. As a vehicle rounds a corner, three forces act on it: tire forces, inertial effects, and gravity. The cornering forces from the tire push the vehicle towards the center of the curve. This force acts at ground level. The force of inertia acts horizontally through the vehicle's center of mass in the direction opposite to the one it is turning. These two forces make the vehicle roll towards the outside of the curve. The force of the vehicle's weight acts downward through the center of mass in the opposite direction. When the tire and inertial forces are enough to overcome the force of gravity, the vehicle starts to turn over. Most passenger vehicles will slide or spin before this happens, but this is a common type of rollover for taller vehicles, including light trucks (SUVs, vans and pickup trucks), busses and heavy trucks.

Tripping rollovers occur when a vehicle is sliding sideways, and the tires strike a curb, dig into soft ground, suddenly regain traction, or a similar event occurs that results in a sudden lateral force. The physics are similar to cornering rollovers.

A collision with another vehicle or object can cause a rollover. These occur when the collision causes the vehicle to become unstable, such as when a narrow object causes one side of the vehicle to accelerate upwards, but not the other, causing the vehicle to rotate along its long axis. A side impact can accelerate a vehicle sideways. The tires resist the change, and the coupled forces rotate the vehicle.

A rollover can also occur as a vehicle crosses a ditch or slope rather than a flat road surface. Slopes that are steeper than one unit vertically for every three units horizontally are termed 'critical slopes' and often contribute to rollovers.



Do you just copy this stuff straight off wiki? Everyone knows what makes stuff fall over, i fall over when i drink too much.
We're not stupid.

[schrodingers cat]

Do you just copy this stuff straight off wiki? Everyone knows what makes stuff fall over, i fall over when i drink too much.
We're not stupid.

Actually a lot of people couldn't explain why something falls over. I agree you're not stupid just narrow

[little.whittle]

According to the Department of Labour most of the accidents are riders under 16 and most deaths were riders w/o helmets
We wear them on a mountain bike or a dirtbike but cant get into the habit on a farmquad!
I'm as guilty as the rest