Arm pump and cross country racing

[Jay GTI]

After reading about the Woodhill 2 man and the like, I'd like to get into a bit of XC racing. However, arm pump has always been an issue for me.

Doing a day's riding at Woodhill, Kimi's, an Epic etc. it's always been fine, I just hit the trails for 15 minutes, which is all it takes for the pump to kick in and I can't hold the bars, then it's back to the ute for a 20 minute rest, some stretching and it's gone for the rest of the day.

I assume that doing a 15 minute warm-up at an XC race isn't really possible though, so anyone got any advice on arm pump management during a race? This isn't a how to avoid arm pump question, I've tried every exercise, spray, energy food and muscle stretch and I always get it, more what can I do to deal with it without the usual resting period?

[Matt Bleck]

I just got a NSD Powerball to try and help combat arm pump, I haven't raced again since so can't say if it works, but it's good fun!

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After reading about the Woodhill 2 man and the like, I'd like to get into a bit of XC racing. However, arm pump has always been an issue for me.

Doing a day's riding at Woodhill, Kimi's, an Epic etc. it's always been fine, I just hit the trails for 15 minutes, which is all it takes for the pump to kick in and I can't hold the bars, then it's back to the ute for a 20 minute rest, some stretching and it's gone for the rest of the day.

I assume that doing a 15 minute warm-up at an XC race isn't really possible though, so anyone got any advice on arm pump management during a race? This isn't a how to avoid arm pump question, I've tried every exercise, spray, energy food and muscle stretch and I always get it, more what can I do to deal with it without the usual resting period?

[flyingcr250]

After reading about the Woodhill 2 man and the like, I'd like to get into a bit of XC racing. However, arm pump has always been an issue for me.

Doing a day's riding at Woodhill, Kimi's, an Epic etc. it's always been fine, I just hit the trails for 15 minutes, which is all it takes for the pump to kick in and I can't hold the bars, then it's back to the ute for a 20 minute rest, some stretching and it's gone for the rest of the day.

I assume that doing a 15 minute warm-up at an XC race isn't really possible though, so anyone got any advice on arm pump management during a race? This isn't a how to avoid arm pump question, I've tried every exercise, spray, energy food and muscle stretch and I always get it, more what can I do to deal with it without the usual resting period?

i think the obvious solution is to slow down untill it passes, loosen your grip, and try to relax abit, i used to get it real bad after only 10 mins on the bike, all the sprays and pills and foods didnt help me either, the best thing i found for it is to just make the muscles stronger, which means ride through the pain (safely), and ride more often, after more than a few rides i came right and i never had arm pump again, i always stretch before a ride and on the gravel road sections i have a quick stretch again while im still riding lol. im not saying this is the "right way" to do it but this is how i kicked arm pump

[Jay GTI]

I just got a NSD Powerball to try and help combat arm pump, I haven't raced again since so can't say if it works, but it's good fun!


Yeah got one of those too. It's fun, and helped my recovery from the intial arm pump, but I still always get it on the first ride.

[Jay GTI]

i think the obvious solution is to slow down untill it passes, loosen your grip, and try to relax abit, i used to get it real bad after only 10 mins on the bike, all the sprays and pills and foods didnt help me either, the best thing i found for it is to just make the muscles stronger, which means ride through the pain (safely), and ride more often, after more than a few rides i came right and i never had arm pump again, i always stretch before a ride and on the gravel road sections i have a quick stretch again while im still riding lol. im not saying this is the "right way" to do it but this is how i kicked arm pump

Ah that's some good advice, thanks! I guess I can slow down, but trying to do that in the context of a race does seem a little counter-productive. Although when it's a 4 hour 2 man race, a bit of slow riding isn't that much of an issue. Forearm strength isn't a problem though, I have windsurfed most of my life and look like Popeye...

[Reckless]

Ah that's some good advice, thanks! I guess I can slow down, but trying to do that in the context of a race does seem a little counter-productive. Although when it's a 4 hour 2 man race, a bit of slow riding isn't that much of an issue. Forearm strength isn't a problem though, I have windsurfed most of my life and look like Popeye...

Doesn't sound to me like you have a choice other than to slow down if you get arm pump you'll be stuffed anyway. If you save yourself a little in the first 10 mins of a 40 min lap then push you will pobably be much better for the rest of that lap and all the following ones.
After I got arm pump so bad I hit a tree and split a radiator hose in my fist gncc I do what flyingcr suggests or try and go for a 10 min warmup and a break before the start? You can ride through it but only if you relax before it gets to bad.

Other then that the other time I got it for a few rides I was simply doing the forearm strap on my pressure suit up to tight??

[cheese]

those gyro balls are only $8 from dealextreme.com

[Jay GTI]

Doesn't sound to me like you have a choice other than to slow down if you get arm pump you'll be stuffed anyway. If you save yourself a little in the first 10 mins of a 40 min lap then push you will pobably be much better for the rest of that lap and all the following ones.
After I got arm pump so bad I hit a tree and split a radiator hose in my fist gncc I do what flyingcr suggests or try and go for a 10 min warmup and a break before the start? You can ride through it but only if you relax before it gets to bad.

Other then that the other time I got it for a few rides I was simply doing the forearm strap on my pressure suit up to tight??

Yeah does sound like there isn't much other option. Like I say, it seems strange to consider that as part of the race plan, but I guess it's much like any kind of physical race, it's about pacing yourself and staying within your limits. My fear is I won't be able to ride through it, but then the current luxury of heading back to the ute for a rest probably means I'm not trying hard enough to find a proper way of dealing with it.

Do you have much of an opportunity to warm up at these races, other than a ride up and down the road? I've watched a couple, but never realy paid attention to the pre-race prep guys were doing.

[Reckless]

Do you have much of an opportunity to warm up at these races, other than a ride up and down the road? I've watched a couple, but never really paid attention to the pre-race prep guys were doing.

Not a lot of chance really! Danger recommended I do 10-15 mins then rest once. Not because I get arm pump mainly because I just see things better ( it feels right) if I ride, rest, then when I ride again it seems to gel much better, mainly the front seems to go where i want it to. But I must admit as time goes on this is becoming much less of an issue.

Generally we are in areas that we are not allowed to go to therefore park in areas fenced of with only one access to the track. But if you got there early enough you probably could a have a play closer to the pits say pretending to warm up your bike?? I tend to think this could also be 15 mins off your ability to go well at the end do to tiredness. I'd try to pace your self through the arm pump section and then push after you warm up, at least this way you are going forward not waisting energy. Or look for something simple that might cause it?
Mind you I have very little experience in Enduro racing.
Maybe someone like Danger (Greg) from Proride is worth a call! Could well be your fork set up if they are harsh or even to soft! Well worth 10 mins on the phone even just for his input??
Good luck!

[Blagger]

The main thing I did to alleviate arm pain was to get the position of my front brake and clutch levers exactly where I wanted them - just an eighth further round showed up in terms of comfort but that tended to be later in the ride so not sure if that's the same as arm pump.

I stand up on the bike with both levers loose as, then get the right position for that stance and tighten them up there.
Works for me.

[Jay GTI]

Thanks all so far for the great advice, very much appreciated!

Does sound like a warm-up as per my current trail riding habit isn't really going to work then, so will try and develop a good pacing technique to allow me to ride through the arm pump, without the red mist decending and leaving me wrapped around a tree 1/2 an hour in. I am a little confused why it's a given for me, when my usual riding buddy hardly ever gets arm pump, should do some more investigation into the cause.

I'll be getting the forks/suspension set up properly as a matter of course (and have already been recommended Greg/Danger from outside the forum), plus checking the lever position is again good advice, I'll play around with that.

Cheers guys!

[Spuds1234]

Rather than spend money on a powerball, get something heavy (eg. old car speaker) and tie it to an old broom handle with about 1m of rope between the two.

Hold it in front of you at shoulder height, out as far as you can and just wind the rope up and down by twisting the broom handle.

Do it 10 times, morning and night each day.

Sounds easy but its not. It will cure you of arm pump. I guarantee it.

[secondfield]

You could possibly try softer compound grips too, this helped me quite a bit, less vibration transferred and alleviates the tendency to death grip the handlebars..

[Rupe]

Forearm strength isn't a problem though, I have windsurfed most of my life and look like Popeye...

Maybe you rely on your arms too much then. You might be strong enough to use a strong grirp and move the bike with your arms. but going from not using them, to using them alot is what causes arm pump.

[Jay GTI]

Rather than spend money on a powerball, get something heavy (eg. old car speaker) and tie it to an old broom handle with about 1m of rope between the two.

Hold it in front of you at shoulder height, out as far as you can and just wind the rope up and down by twisting the broom handle.

Do it 10 times, morning and night each day.

Sounds easy but its not. It will cure you of arm pump. I guarantee it.

Ah now that is an exercise I haven't tried... off to the garage to hack up a broom...


Maybe you rely on your arms too much then. You might be strong enough to use a strong grirp and move the bike with your arms. but going from not using them, to using them alot is what causes arm pump.

Oh almost certainly my technique sucks... but that's an interesting thought, not considered it that way before. Will have to analyse next time I ride...

Again, cheers guys!

[That Guy]

I get it and used to get really bad. What fixes it for me:
- consciously remind yourself all the time to relax your hands on the bars, don't do the deathgrip thing
-use your knees! Practice holding the bars loosley but grip the tank hard with your knees. Do this BEFORE you even sense arm pump. If you have got arm pump, too late!
- use small diameter grips. Smaller circumference to grip makes your arms last longer
- train. Ride. Train. Ride. And use your knees!

[Jay GTI]

Yeah I think it's a death grip issue now I've had time to think about it. I got back into riding about 4 years ago, after a 15 year break and I don't think buying an RM250 was the best idea, I was holding on for dear life for the first year... and probably picked up all sorts of poor technique. I do hold on with my knees now, but still there'll be issues. Right, more knees, more training, less grip... I'm getting there already.

[Rupe]

Yeah I think it's a death grip issue now I've had time to think about it. I got back into riding about 4 years ago, after a 15 year break and I don't think buying an RM250 was the best idea, I was holding on for dear life for the first year... and probably picked up all sorts of poor technique. I do hold on with my knees now, but still there'll be issues. Right, more knees, more training, less grip... I'm getting there already.

You can also try gripping with your ankles.

[camchain]

I think some people get it worse than others Jay, just they way your tendons/sheath etc put together (my guess anyway).

There is some doctor in Thames supposed to be able to work wonders with arm-pump. Maybe email someone from the Thames club, or ring around. Can't be many docs in Thames. Even if you do a phone consult, could be well worth your while.

I remember reading Whibs has some trick he uses, something about 'strapping'. Mention in article was vague, but my guess maybe he wrapped forearms before riding, then big rush of blood into veins?

Another great gym exercise is sit astride a bench with barbell in close grip (or you can do it single hand with dumbell). Rest forearms flat on bench, with hands over the end, let the weight roll down, open out fingers then roll back up, and tip hands up and towards you. You'll need a fire extinguisher for that burn.

They used to make hand grips that were a bit like a 'cam' shape, maybe you could wire on a chunk of rubber on front of grip just for a try. I heard of a certain pro who wired a piece of wood on front of grips for extra grip for a mud race recently. Just a different shape where you can move your hand around a bit might just help with hand being locked in single position?

Try using a spring hand-squeezer thing (or your gyro gadget) on the drive to the event. Good warm up gets the blood pumping through and enlarges the veins before you ride, then quick stretch on hands/fingers before you jump on bike. Definitely helps big-time for me.

[Reckless]

Just further to Rupe and the not using your arms so much theory!
What I have been practicing a little (and I dunno if this is correct or not??) But weighting the inside peg as you go in to get the bike to turn in, then once its in weight the outside peg to give it grip that's if its a stand up corner of coarse! The majority of corners in Enduro are stand up.
Look I dunno if this is 100% correct as I have never done a Birchy coarse or anything, but this technique is completely opposite to manhandling the bike in with the bars.
I am trying in my self taught learning curve to try and use my body weight and relax on the bike and get it to do what I want. That's when I actually remember to do it?? Mostly when I'm trying to go fast I don't, but when I'm practicing out the Sandpit I'm trying to make it automatic, as these fast buggers just seem to glide through with grace and little effort. I know they are much much fitter than me but not 7 laps to my 3? Its got to be technique and practice!
I 've probably got this wrong but only tend to hug the bike tight with both knees when I'm trying to make it up a steep hill or slippery climb, the rest of the time I'm trying to get into the habit of guiding the bike either way with my legs and on the straights keeping it in line with my legs? So much so I've completely worn through the graphics on the bike and they are embedded into the plastic on the Ktm! Although its not working as well in practice as the theory in my head LOL!!! Pic attached! (And no I haven't had time to clean the bike after arriving home in the dark on Sunday)

214212


Oh for a gift of 10 years experience, that'd be good LOL!!!

Just thought I'd post that up for your consideration (mind you just about everybody on KB is much younger and faster then me), but what the hell its about learning together ain't it!!

Any comments from Chop, Danger or any of the good guys would be appreciated!!

[CHOPPA]

I never get it on XC but usually just first practice at MX. Suggests to me its something to do with warming up, once you have it on a ride it doesnt go away very easy.

Never sit down on a XC, stand up use your legs and core muscles to grip the bike, lean right forward when on a straight so your arms get a rest

[theblacksmith]

Just relax on the bike a bit more-do more holding with your legs. I have rheumatoid arthritis so Ive had to. I never get arm pump. Thankfully. But I get throbbing wrists lol! Reckless 's technique sounds good. Always have your weight directly above the contact patch of the tyre on the ground(weighting outside peg) and twist your hip out to the outside as well when standing up. Dont leave all the work to your arms. Or they will be pumping lol. I fully recommend Birchys coaching days if your serious about increasing your speed and riding smart and safe. The smarter you ride the more endurance you will have. All the best.

[Jay GTI]

Damn guys, you are all seriously awesome! Waaay more than I was expecting, so much really good advice in this thread and I appreciate all of it.

Ok, plenty to chew over, but it's pretty clear my technique is a big part of the problem, so will work on that (no more death grip!). Will also take on board all the warm-up tips and put them into practice on the next ride, see how I get on.