Silly HD question but...

[Paul in NZ]

I'm a silly guy...

Old Iron head HD sportsters... My memory of them is not good... as in pretty diabolical but time has a habit of producing cures to most things... What are old iron sporties really like to live with?

[Crasherfromwayback]

Utter shite.

[Motu]

They make a pre unit Triumph look up to date and high tech.They can be updated with some later and better bits,and can be made to go like a Doberman after a robber....and as controllable.But you will be yearning for the reliability of the worst Triumph you've ridden.The totally apeshit surge as the touchpaper ignites,and you are left hanging onto drag bars with your feet in the wrong place is exciting...but not something to live every day with.

[sinned]

Buy a new one, they are well priced and excellent machines. Why bother with old shit unless it has some real classic value; then don't ride it but put on display.
That is my opinion.

[Paul in NZ]

Buy a new one, they are well priced and excellent machines. Why bother with old shit unless it has some real classic value; then don't ride it but put on display.
That is my opinion.

Yes - all good but the iron ones almost fit a certain requirement...

[Paul in NZ]

But you will be yearning for the reliability of the worst Triumph you've ridden..

Yeah - I kinda remembered that being the case....

[Motu]

There is no denying the attraction - they are raw and uncouth like no other bike,with an approach to engineering as alien as a French car.If I came across one for as much as they are really worth I'd snap it up.....but a $500 shit box seems to have an extra zero on the end.I want value for money,not to pay for the name.

[Voltaire]

an approach to engineering as alien as a French car

Hmmm, I had a Citroen 2CV once...gear lever stuck out of the dash, the windows swung open,and it only had a 600cc twin, smaller than my BMW of the time....one of my favourite cars ... so I'm guessing an iron head Harley would be cool to own but not really that practical....:innocent:

[Motu]

Yeah,like the Peugeot 404 - Pull the button up to lock the door,push down to unlock.WTF? Talk about belligerent,just because everyone else does it one way,that means there is another way for the French to do it.It was the same for HD - everyone else uses a bowden cable for the throttle,so we will use a stiff wire cable,so now the rider can pick their nose with their right hand.

[doc]

They wrecked a few knee joints when the kicker pawl slipped. You need a rebuild kit for the generator if you want to go past the distance you can travel in one day. Dont mention the 4 speed gearbox problems. They look better when someone else has one.

HD didn't get any reliability until they produced the evo, others will say thats when they lost their character. :chase:

[Crasherfromwayback]

They wrecked a few knee joints when the kicker pawl slipped. You need a rebuild kit for the generator if you want to go past the distance you can travel in one day. Dont mention the 4 speed gearbox problems. They look better when someone else has one.

HD didn't get any reliability until they produced the evo, others will say thats when they lost their character. :chase:

And an evo is only an alloy top end on a shovel. OK if left stock...but not reliable if hot rodded.

Twin Cams are the only truly reliable big HD motor built. And they have as much character as any. Although five speed Sportys are good too.

[Goblin]

He is still not ready to move up.

[nudemetalz]

I like the look of the 1957 Sportster.
Are they like what everyone has just mentioned?

[Paul in NZ]

I like the look of the 1957 Sportster.
Are they like what everyone has just mentioned?

No - that one really is worth a lot of cash in the USA - I was looking early 70's busted old project as a donor for something else...

[Crasherfromwayback]

Don't do it Paul!

[Paul in NZ]

Don't do it Paul!

I didn't.... And I won't. Careful research indicates that they can actually be made into a pretty decent bike IF you have all the specialist knowledge and tools plus a bottomless pit of cash. I think it would be simpler to rebuild my Moto Guzzi into a WSB winning racer...

It was merely the narrow V twin look I was after to build a sort of Brough Superior thingy... However my sources have told me that A: the HD guys will hate me (the ones that don't already hate me) and B: the Brough Guys will be terribly insulted and since they tend to have more cash and less ethics than a Russian Oil Barron thats probably not wise... One wag suggested it could be a Brough Inferior which I quite liked the sound of...

[pete376403]

speaking of old iron sporties - anyone know what happened to one that was built over the Waiararapa - had a z900 or similar gearbox which required putting the motor in the frame backwards (to get the primary on the right hand side) so the engine had been re-cammed to get the engine to run backwards. Had lots of other nice goodies as well. Was featured in Streetbike magazine

[Kickaha]

It was merely the narrow V twin look I was after to build a sort of Brough Superior thingy...

One wag suggested it could be a Brough Inferior which I quite liked the sound of...

I think you were on the right track with the XV you were looking at, a TR1 would be the go

[Paul in NZ]

I think you were on the right track with the XV you were looking at, a TR1 would be the go

The wide angle V twin was not quite right but cool if the price was right - last time I looked it was $750 with a rocket... gawd...

[BIG DOUG]

pete376402,the bike you are talking about was built by gary mc'phee and it was a big blk shovel mtr with a six speed kawa box,astralite wheels etc bloody nice saw it years ago at a show in auck after gary sold it haven't seen it since and iron head sporties are an aquired taste but yes the early ones are nice.

[T.W.R]

It was merely the narrow V twin look I was after to build a sort of Brough Superior thingy... However my sources have told me that A: the HD guys will hate me (the ones that don't already hate me) and B: the Brough Guys will be terribly insulted and since they tend to have more cash and less ethics than a Russian Oil Barron thats probably not wise... One wag suggested it could be a Brough Inferior which I quite liked the sound of...

Take another twist on the idea and make one of these :blink:

[nudemetalz]

That is nice, Bill,...apart from the bloody ugly top box !!!!

[T.W.R]

That is nice, Bill,...apart from the bloody ugly top box !!!!

all that Givi stuff always spoils the lines of any bike, especially older bikes with classic lines like that one :yes:

P.S.Imagine what that engine sounds like breathing through those Conti reps :love:

[Paul in NZ]

Take another twist on the idea and make one of these :blink:


That - cough - might just be slightly beyond the budget.... The idea is to take an unloved 'cheap' bike and have fun... Not ruin the family producing something that looks nice but is impractical and unlikely to ever recoup a tenth of its cost...

[T.W.R]

That - cough - might just be slightly beyond the budget.... The idea is to take an unloved 'cheap' bike and have fun... Not ruin the family producing something that looks nice but is impractical and unlikely to ever recoup a tenth of its cost...

:laugh: not ruining the family budget & you're mentioning names like Brough Superior and taking about playing with old iron head hardleys :slap:

best bet would be to head down the parallel twin path rather than a V twin then :yes: get something like a GSX400 and make a SFC750 or Montjuich replica. And not like that black & silver thing that's on TM at the moment either.

something like these:

http://www.google.co.nz/images?rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7ADFA_en&redir_esc=&q=Laverda+Montjuic&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=ky1STICwF5KRnwep4vW5Aw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCIQsAQwAA

[Kickaha]

Take another twist on the idea and make one of these :blink:

What exactly is that? It's a Vincent motor but whats the rest of the running gear

[T.W.R]

What exactly is that? It's a Vincent motor but whats the rest of the running gear

yeah a Vincent motor plumbed into either a duke 860 or 750 GT rolling chassis

[Paul in NZ]

What exactly is that? It's a Vincent motor but whats the rest of the running gear

Ducati GT750.... um - you do own a ducati right?

[Paul in NZ]

:laugh: not ruining the family budget & you're mentioning names like Brough Superior and taking about playing with old iron head hardleys :slap:

best bet would be to head down the parallel twin path rather than a V twin then :yes: get something like a GSX400 and make a SFC750 or Montjuich replica. And not like that black & silver thing that's on TM at the moment either.

something like these:

http://www.google.co.nz/images?rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7ADFA_en&redir_esc=&q=Laverda+Montjuic&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=ky1STICwF5KRnwep4vW5Aw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCIQsAQwAA

What about a Honda NV400 or 750?

[T.W.R]

What about a Honda NV400 or 750?

:puke: crap motor

[Motu]

Sounds like you are looking for something with flattrack heritage - seems there are XLV750's cropping up in a much abused states.It's a hell of a frame to work around,but it's very special engine with pedigree,and kickarse performance.

[Rogue Rider]

I'm a silly guy...

Old Iron head HD sportsters... My memory of them is not good... as in pretty diabolical but time has a habit of producing cures to most things... What are old iron sporties really like to live with?

Every now and then evolution throws out a rock instead of a diamond. The iron head is definately the rock, which is best used as an anchor weight or mooring for a canoe......... Pain pain pain, get an evo, much better and much more reliable.
East Coast motorcycles has a real nice classic old school one cheap that he traded. Check it out, its not listed as yet so get in quick,.

[98tls]

Buy a new one, they are well priced and excellent machines. Why bother with old shit unless it has some real classic value; then don't ride it but put on display.
That is my opinion.

Buy a new one then when you want to trade up you might just as well put it on display in your lounge as the Harley dealer wont want a bar of it and as a mate recently found out will offer you a price that indeed ensures it stays in your possesion.

[BIG DOUG]

so bike shops should trade bikes in and make no money on them? what year was said sportie

[sinned]

Buy a new one then when you want to trade up you might just as well put it on display in your lounge as the Harley dealer wont want a bar of it and as a mate recently found out will offer you a price that indeed ensures it stays in your possesion.

Does that not apply to all bikes and cars? Buy new and you lose money. Buy second hand and you may lose less. It also depends on how long you keep it. It is easy to count the loss without considering the wear and life of components from kms traveled and time kept.

[98tls]

Does that not apply to all bikes and cars? Buy new and you lose money. Buy second hand and you may lose less. It also depends on how long you keep it. It is easy to count the loss without considering the wear and life of components from kms traveled and time kept.

Indeed it does,i sold Toyotas for 5 years Fords for 2 and spent 2 years selling bikes so understand a little of how it works,the offer made on his in very good nick Sporty was more an insult.He bought a new bike and simply kept the Sporty.

[Paul in NZ]

FFS - this thread is drifting all over the place and falling into a question of the used value of sportsters and the ethics of bike shops...

I was asking about iron sportsters only because of the physical shape of the engine. A narrow angle v twin with exposed push rod tubes which could be obtained cheaply (though not cheaply enough) for a wee project to produce a classic / custom 1930's style bike with a KTOR / matchless / JAP vtwin engine...

Due to some life changing events I just want a wee project to keep me sane - not to win the local bike show or change the world.... The problem is that even the most turgid pile of shit, blown engine, missing major parts sans rego / plate / paperwork etc all appear to be made of solid gold according to the owners. It really is unbelievable the prices wanted for some of these things compared to the cost of getting them road worthy.

I should not have had the crisis of concious and sold on the CB450 motu helped me find but I was in a pretty dire state then and not thinking or acting properly on many fronts. But its unlikely to be the last stupid thing I ever do is it? :innocent:

[Paul in NZ]

What about this/

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Other/auction-307167592.htm

price is oK for a rego'd bike??

[Ocean1]

Looks good to me, price is bloody excellent for a legal machine.

Good donk too.

[nudemetalz]

I might be wrong here, but I've heard that the rear drum brakes on the NV/VT/Shadow tend to cook the shaft bearings and grease etc due to heat.
Apart from that, the 52 degree v-twin engine is a good design. Be good for a wee project like yours and I'd go for it over the XV.

[Ocean1]

the rear drum brakes on the NV/VT/Shadow tend to cook the shaft bearings.

And that particular one is overdue for a birthday. But who needs back brakes?

[Kickaha]

What about this/

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Other/auction-307167592.htm

price is oK for a rego'd bike??


Depends on what styling you settle on rebuilding it to, Bobber I would say yes other wise I'd be perhaps looking for a Honda Bros although the single sided swingarm may screw up the look you want and the wheels are ugly and they cost lots more etc etc etc

[Paul in NZ]

Depends on what styling you settle on rebuilding it to, Bobber I would say yes other wise I'd be perhaps looking for a Honda Bros although the single sided swingarm may screw up the look you want and the wheels are ugly and they cost lots more etc etc etc

Most of the shape is in the tank and stupid forks surely? Bigger prob is the 16" rear wheel

what about this then?

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Motorbikes/Other/auction-306767350.htm

Slow as a wet week I'll bet ;-)

[Motu]

And you've got water cooling to deal with,doesn't exactly fit in with the spartan look you are after.The XLV750 is a real 45 degree with air cooling....but you have to find one,and the 3in square frame tube is not the look either.

[T.W.R]

Be good for a wee project like yours and I'd go for it over the XV.

That generation of cruisers the Honda was the least desirable of the whole bunch, testers even prefered the 883 sporty over it :yes: the XV750 was the best allround performer of all, simplest motor, best handler etc etc. The NV has the most complexed engine (comparable to the VN750 Vulcan), worst brakes, and only just out performed the VS750 intruder (& they considered that to have a frame that felt like it had a universal hinge in the middle of it).
That was part of the reason that Honda weren't forthcoming in letting the 1100 shadow be tested when it was 1st released.

[Edbear]

Does that not apply to all bikes and cars? Buy new and you lose money. Buy second hand and you may lose less. It also depends on how long you keep it. It is easy to count the loss without considering the wear and life of components from kms traveled and time kept.

A study done many years ago concluded the cheapest way to own a vehicle was to buy a new one and never sell it servicing it regularly.


FFS - this thread is drifting all over the place ...:

Ha ha! This is KB, mate! :yes:

[TripleZee Dyno]

FFS - this thread is drifting all over the place and falling into a question of the used value of sportsters and the ethics of bike shops...

I was asking about iron sportsters only because of the physical shape of the engine. A narrow angle v twin with exposed push rod tubes which could be obtained cheaply (though not cheaply enough) for a wee project to produce a classic / custom 1930's style bike with a KTOR / matchless / JAP vtwin engine...

Due to some life changing events I just want a wee project to keep me sane - not to win the local bike show or change the world.... The problem is that even the most turgid pile of shit, blown engine, missing major parts sans rego / plate / paperwork etc all appear to be made of solid gold according to the owners. It really is unbelievable the prices wanted for some of these things compared to the cost of getting them road worthy.

I should not have had the crisis of concious and sold on the CB450 motu helped me find but I was in a pretty dire state then and not thinking or acting properly on many fronts. But its unlikely to be the last stupid thing I ever do is it? :innocent:

Ironheads arent that bad. Biggest problem was people thrashing them trying to keep up with other bikes. Thrash the daylights out of them and they will shit themselves sooner rather then later.
The 900 went pretty well, seemed to last better than the 1000, but they are probably "classics" now so will be overpriced.
Get a late model 1000, 83-85, basically an 883 evo with iron top end. There are a few things you can do to up the reliability, if you are handy with a mill and lathe.
Otherwise use as a cruiser rather than a racer and it will be fine.

[doc]

They are a good looking motor

[_Shrek_]

They are a good looking motor

are they the American throw away version :whistle:

[Crasherfromwayback]

Sounds like you are looking for something with flattrack heritage - seems there are XLV750's cropping up in a much abused states.It's a hell of a frame to work around,but it's very special engine with pedigree,and kickarse performance.

Like this??
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300454467195&viewitem=

[Motu]

Wow,that's really something special.Not a toy,but I'd sure like to have a play with it.

This is a photo of my brother's bikes,he lives in Canada.He built the streettracker about 8 years ago,and the bike on the right is his latest build,after 3 years just finished a few weeks ago.The bike was put together just to take the engine he built - it has Shell Thuet pistons and cams.He got the parts from Shell himself,ringing him up to order and question him about setting it up.Shell is pretty old now,and it's great that he's still doing stuff,and some Kiwi can ring him up and talk to him.

The tracker is off the road - no WoF in Canada,but some Cop stopped him about the number plate being hard to read.Now it has to be taken through compliance...and that means it has to be practically stock,a tough call as it was built from parts and he doesn't have the bits missing.

215811

[doc]

Like this??
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300454467195&viewitem=

Or maybe something like this

[Paul in NZ]

Wow,that's really something special.Not a toy,but I'd sure like to have a play with it.

This is a photo of my brother's bikes,he lives in Canada.He built the streettracker about 8 years ago,and the bike on the right is his latest build,after 3 years just finished a few weeks ago.The bike was put together just to take the engine he built - it has Shell Thuet pistons and cams.He got the parts from Shell himself,ringing him up to order and question him about setting it up.Shell is pretty old now,and it's great that he's still doing stuff,and some Kiwi can ring him up and talk to him.

The tracker is off the road - no WoF in Canada,but some Cop stopped him about the number plate being hard to read.Now it has to be taken through compliance...and that means it has to be practically stock,a tough call as it was built from parts and he doesn't have the bits missing.

215811

Stunning work mate....

[Crasherfromwayback]

This is a photo of my brother's bikes,he lives in Canada.


I'm VERY jealous!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Or maybe something like this

Aye. If I one day win lotto...I'm gonna build a real nasty XR.

[Paul in NZ]

Aye. If I one day win lotto...I'm gonna build a real nasty XR.

The factory already beat you to it mate....

[Crasherfromwayback]

The factory already beat you to it mate....

This would do (nicely) for now...might see if I can con the boss into building one as a shop bike!215846

[HenryDorsetCase]

best bet would be to head down the parallel twin path rather than a V twin then :yes: get something like a GSX400 and make a SFC750 or Montjuich replica. And not like that black & silver thing that's on TM at the moment either.

something like these:

http://www.google.co.nz/images?rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7ADFA_en&redir_esc=&q=Laverda+Montjuic&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&ei=ky1STICwF5KRnwep4vW5Aw&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCIQsAQwAA

all that cafe'd GSX400 needs is some wire spoke wheels, and drop the forks through the clamps by a few mm, and maybe some work to get the tank and seat and tailpiece in a line. Also he wants too much for it, in that he wants to recoup most of what he has put into it. Has no one told him that project bikes are just money pits that you shovel coin into like coal into the boilers of the titanic?

[T.W.R]

all that cafe'd GSX400 needs is some wire spoke wheels, and drop the forks through the clamps by a few mm, and maybe some work to get the tank and seat and tailpiece in a line. Also he wants too much for it, in that he wants to recoup most of what he has put into it. Has no one told him that project bikes are just money pits that you shovel coin into like coal into the boilers of the titanic?

realistically he's in dream land trying to recoup what he's spent making that thing...the idea is right but making a project bike is money you spend for your own satisfaction not what you expect someone else to pay for your efforts.
Modelling something like that on a 500 Montjuic would be easily done & done right the performance could be as good as the Montjuic for naff all expense:yes:

[BIG DOUG]

come on pete you had a nice orange xr1000 in the shop the other day thata a nice loo216481king xr

[jellywrestler]

it's just photoshopped from this!

[BIG DOUG]

Now now spyda no need to be like that,I kind of like that rokon way ahead of its time lol.

[scumdog]

I'm a silly guy...

Old Iron head HD sportsters... My memory of them is not good... as in pretty diabolical but time has a habit of producing cures to most things... What are old iron sporties really like to live with?

Bought a tired one and it kindly burnt a valve at Omarama after the Brass Monkey a few years ago.

Rebuilt the top-end and the only further problem I had was a cracked ign coil that caused the bike to lose a lung when it got hot, put a new coil on and no problems, had it for a few years untill I believed Evos were not a passing fad.

But I never really hammered it and kept an eye on it as you would with a Triumph of the same age.

[scumdog]

Don't do it Paul!

Do it Paul!

Hehehehe...

[buellbabe]

Ironheads arent that bad. Biggest problem was people thrashing them trying to keep up with other bikes. Thrash the daylights out of them and they will shit themselves sooner rather then later...

Otherwise use as a cruiser rather than a racer and it will be fine.

What he said...

Basically ya either love em or hate em. Friends of mine who used to own ironheads wistfully reminisce and wish they still had them.

They are not a bike that you can thrash all day but you can still ride ALL day on them. My mates Shovel used to sit on 120 all day long. Nothing wrong with that.

It had the legs to go long distance but was shite for dragging...FARK it was hilarious the time he took it to the Drags for a larf... we stopped the timer at 18 secs cos it still hadn't made it to the other end LOL... But aside from that it was a bloody good bike, well preserved :yes:

[Coolz]

Dont do it mate! Had one in the eighties when I was living in Auckland.Could never get it over the Bombays.The last straw was when the engine cases vibrated apart dumping oil all over the back tyre!

[scumdog]

Dont do it mate! Had one in the eighties when I was living in Auckland.Could never get it over the Bombays.The last straw was when the engine cases vibrated apart dumping oil all over the back tyre!

Kharma baby - ya must have upset somebody in the past.

[Coolz]

Well...there was that Yamaha I had with a Triumph tank on it...

[Crasherfromwayback]

Wow,that's really something special.Not a toy,but I'd sure like to have a play with it.


How's this one? Man...I need to win Lotto

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170529861866&viewitem=

[Motu]

All that work,all those fancy parts - on a stock Yamaha frame...except for the swingarm.Nice street bike (and I'd love it for a street bike),but it wouldn't do that well on a 1/2 mile.

[Crasherfromwayback]

No...but I'd only want it for the odd short blast on the asphalt!

[Rogue Rider]

I'm a silly guy...

Old Iron head HD sportsters... My memory of them is not good... as in pretty diabolical but time has a habit of producing cures to most things... What are old iron sporties really like to live with?

Somethings in history are best left there, does that answer the question...... The evo engines were the start of their better efforts, then the twin cam 1450's up after that. Personally I prefer the 90's + evo's as they have an awesome deep rumble and fairly straight forward to look after and maintain. 1990-97 were the better styled bikes, before they got techo.....

[Paul in NZ]

Guys guys guys... We are way off base. I wanted an iron sporty cos of the way the engine looks and thats it... I'm not remotely considering buying a evo or anything (god forbid) modern... :sick: It was for a sort of custom project to look like a 1930's Brough Superior etc.... But seriously, thanks for the info and you know what - If I found a cheapish 60's XLCH Id probably buy it... They are cool - run like a sack of shit but cool....

[BIG DOUG]

Speakimg of brough's, paul a friend of mine is building a sort of replica using a hd 1340 motor,he has in the past built an ironhead sporty which from a distance look's like an early pan will try and dig out a pic.

[Kickaha]

Guys guys guys... We are way off base. I wanted an iron sporty cos of the way the engine looks and thats it... I'm not remotely considering buying a evo or anything (god forbid) modern... :sick: It was for a sort of custom project to look like a 1930's Brough Superior etc.... But seriously, thanks for the info and you know what - If I found a cheapish 60's XLCH Id probably buy it... They are cool - run like a sack of shit but cool....

I dunno if you've seen this Paul but if you want to choose a different path
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/entry.php/1446-steampunk-inspired-veteran-build

[Paul in NZ]

I dunno if you've seen this Paul but if you want to choose a different path
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/entry.php/1446-steampunk-inspired-veteran-build

There are easier ways to matyrdom my friend.... My skills probably are not at that level yet... (mind you - what could have been done with one of the old railways jigger engines... Big JAP V twin!)