PDA

View Full Version : Linux vs Windows?



Mom
30th July 2010, 17:56
Help a gal out would you mind?

As above. Bear in mind I am a Windows user and have never used Linux. I know there is a divide between the two.

What are the differences?

Practical ones...

Personal ones...

Any snags?...

Easy to move from Windows to Linux?...

Sensible answers appreciated, though I need cheering up so I will take anything at this stage.

The search fucntion is too hard to use :innocent:

bogan
30th July 2010, 18:03
for me it comes down to what programs you can't run on linux, it'll do browsing music vids etc fine, but few of my engineering programs run on it so I haven't used it much. However the newer version have a nice interface and it should be easy enough to learn after using windows. So check what programs you need, see if they run on linux, or if similar ones are available. If they will work then try it out, it is free after all!

ffirman
30th July 2010, 18:10
Here is what I know, and my background.

Now I have been using Linux as a desktop OS prob now for about 12 years, and I have been using it as my main OS for the last 6-7 years, including at work, both at Telecom and now at Slingshot/Callplus.

Now to start with, to make your life a bit easier, start with the version of Linux called Ubuntu. It has been designed to make it somewhat more simple to use. Not always, as there are always going to be differences.

Now if you want to browse the internet, use things like facebook, and play flash games etc, do your email, trademe then you shouldn't have any real problems.

If you are a big gamer, then you will have many more issues.

There are many free applications available in the built in installer, so you don't have to go hunting for them, for doing photo management, including facebook, flicka exporting. Music playing, video playing and editing, writing dvd's, and creating video dvds.

The Ubuntu download cd, can be used to try Linux out without installing, thou it is a bit slow, and you can't do everything.

If you want to know anymore, drop me a note..

Enjoy.

Fran

Grasshopperus
30th July 2010, 18:22
Hi Mom,

Be prepared for a huge amount of fanboy ranting on this topic.

I feel I'm pretty qualified to answer because I started with Windows but now do quite a lot of software development on Linux systems and my job involves administering heaps of Linux servers. I used to be a Linux fanatic and everything had to be "give me Linux or give me death"

I'm going to assume that you're asking about using computers for personal use (as opposed to business)

The thing to understand about Windows, GNU/Linux and Mac is that they are all just operating systems that you run applications on. The correct way to chose the right operating system for you is to decide what you want to do with computers. Each OS is better for different types of things, for example.

Windows is the best gaming, office, and general usage OS; It has heaps of easy to install and use software, it has huge market-share which means heaps of people know how to use it and can give you support. As its been the de-facto standard for PC desktops for 15+ years every type of software that you'll want to use will be available on this platform. It will just work and be the easiest for you to do whatever you want it to do.

Apple Mac is getting pretty popular now; they have the best graphic, video and audio editing software available as "exclusive titles", things like "Final Cut Pro" will only work on Apple Macs. Creative (content creators) people love them because of this. They make good-looking laptops and are also pretty easy to use. What they do suffer from is a lack of breadth of software available. For example, only recently are games being released that work on Macs.

Linux, by comparison, can get quite complicated for people who have never had any exposure to the OS and just want to use their computer to check emails, do office work and other basic things. To get real value out of linux you need to scratch the surface and that means you'll spend time doing arcane things just to get your applications to work. Linux is the ideal OS for people who want to learn about computers, do programming, play with cutting edge software, run network services and other more hardcore things. For business you can't go past Linux for servers, this is because the internet, and networks in general, were created on Unix (which is what Linux is based on) and all the nice security, reliability and configuration-centric features are available to users.

So in summary;

Windows is the EFI bike - super-reliable SV650 or something
Mac is the Ducati - looks cool and does some things well but won't carry your pillion passenger
Linux is the racebike that needs heaps of fiddling to go hard

jonbuoy
30th July 2010, 18:30
Ubuntu is one of the easiest version of Linux to set up and install. If you only surf, play music, email and print and edit pictures and write the odd document it will do want you want quickly and for free. If you are installing onto an desktop computer its fairly straight forward and you shouldnīt have too many problems with drivers, netbooks or laptops may need someone with Linux knowlage to do some searching for hardware drivers and possibly some command line tweaks.
Its a great alternative to Windows/Apple and there are some excellent free applications that would cost thousands to buy on a PC/Mac.

The user interface is easier to migrate from Windows than the MAC user interface (insert fanboy slagging here - Iīd like to fullscreen any of my applications, sorry Apple decide how big you want the windows on your desktop to be, and a mouse that right clicks by default? ) Ubuntu works exactly like Windows from a user point of view you wonīt have any problems.

Download the live cd image and you can run it from within windows to try before you format. If you have any specific software or you want to play games other than flash internet games you will need to run windows as well.

SpankMe
30th July 2010, 18:36
I've been looking after Linux systems for over 20 years, but I'd never use it for my desktop. Unless you're looking at getting into IT, I'd stick to Windows. Windows 7 is a very good OS for everyday PC stuff.

Cayman911
30th July 2010, 18:44
linux is good for technical stuff. for specialists etc. not a everyday user at home.
if you want to get away from microshaft's buggy windows operating system. and like linux.

there is a working friendly perfect faultless operating system called OS X, by apple buy an apple.

as they say, an apple a day keeps the comptuer doctor away :).

Grasshopperus
30th July 2010, 18:45
Unless you're looking at getting into IT, I'd stick to Windows. Windows 7 is a very good OS for everyday PC stuff.

What he said

3lemental
30th July 2010, 18:46
The other major factor in favor of Linux' is that if you're worried about paying for stuff legally then virtually every Linux distro is FREE!!!

People often reccomend Ubuntu for first timers, but i actually found Fedora easier to learn my way around. To each their own, but if you want to head down that path you may want to look at both.

jonbuoy
30th July 2010, 19:03
Iīm not sure when anyone here tried the latest release of Ubuntu but it isnīt just for specialists anymore, once drivers are loaded the average user will never need to open a command line window for everyday use.

SpankMe
30th July 2010, 19:15
...once drivers are loaded the average user will never need to open a command line window for everyday use.

and almost any other time you need to load drivers for new hardware. and forgot about old or non standard hardware.

Bren
30th July 2010, 19:18
I also have been running Linux on and off for years...(my first username on this forum was Linuxrunner)...

I am using a new laptop with Windows7 on it and it is rather good, but still love having a spin with Linux now and then. One thing to consider is how old your computer is. linux in general is not as bloated as windows7 and uses less PC grunt. There is great software for Linux which will not let you down for choices....eg..Gimp for graphics, RhythmBox for Audio, Firefox for browsing etc just to name a few....

As stated before Ubuntu is a good distro to start with...

Mom, test with your big toe and set up a dual boot system, then at least you can play about with it and if needed reboot into windows...

dipshit
30th July 2010, 19:20
Basically it boils down to - that amongst computer nerds Windows is uncool and Linux is seen as cool.

Just like Telecom is uncool and any other provider except Telecom is cool.

Even though something like Windows 7 (or Telecom for that matter) will take care of most of your needs satisfactorily.

jonbuoy
30th July 2010, 19:24
and almost any other time you need to load drivers for new hardware. and forgot about old or non standard hardware.

I didnīt have any issues with hardware on the new distro, older hardware is sometimes better supported than the newer hardware loads of people running Ubuntu on "obsolete" hardware. Horses for courses, if it keeps developing like it as at the moment it will be THE main OS in the years to come.

Mental Trousers
30th July 2010, 19:25
I've been looking after Linux systems for over 20 years, but I'd never use it for my desktop. Unless you're looking at getting into IT, I'd stick to Windows. Windows 7 is a very good OS for everyday PC stuff.

15 years for me. I live on CentOS and Ubuntu at work but at home I'm still using my WinXP install cos I'm too lazy to move to Windows 7.

If you want to try it out install it in a virtual machine so you use both at once.

motor_mayhem
30th July 2010, 19:25
Pretty much agree with what most other people have said apart from wouldn't dream of buying apple which is for people who want to look good and cost themselves a fortune without actually getting anything done.

the only other obvious difference not mentioned here is price - Linux is free vs Windows costs a fair bit. Ubuntu is relatively user friendly, I have my tv pc running it and it is really good and my flatmates have no trouble with it. However the bulk of software available online and in retail stores is for Windows and some hardware works better on Windows.

YellowDog
30th July 2010, 19:38
Iīm not sure when anyone here tried the latest release of Ubuntu but it isnīt just for specialists anymore, once drivers are loaded the average user will never need to open a command line window for everyday use.

That's right. The newer Ubuntu versions are very easy to set up and use, plus they run on old PCs very well. So you don't have to upgrade your computer.

There's no MS-Office or Outlook for Ubuntu. You can still read Word and Excel files etc. and there's an email program plus a web browser.

Personally I wouldn't switch to Ubuntu for my main computing (great for file and print servers though). My mobile phone works as one with MS-Outlook, plus I can carry all my important documents with me. Takes me 30 seconds to switch to a new phone. eMail, Contacts, numbers, addresses, documents, everything!

Windows may be resource hungry, but it does the job really well for me.

mikeey01
30th July 2010, 19:49
There's no MS-Office or Outlook for Ubuntu. .

Ever heard of Open Office?

Now Outlook....
Well there are apps but not quite as good as the latest mega dollars worth of Outlook, close but not quite there yet and you'll find them spread across a number of linux aps however.

For any home users running any of the hand full of great version of Linux currently on offer on their home PC you'll find hundreds of free downloadable programmes that will do all sorts of stuff like gimp (photo shop) or open office (ms office) and the like, the lists go on and on.

road king
30th July 2010, 20:02
i moved my desktop PC with windows to the lounge and just use it for movies through the TV. then brought a low speck, old, busted laptop (keyboard and screen don't work) plugged in a screen, keyboard and mouse, and am running it on puppy Linux. and its fast and reliable. boots up quicker than my PC and is plenty fast enough. and was realy simple to set up. i tried ubuntu but found it was to slow and i couldn't get the wireless internet to work on it. were as with puppy, i just hit "connect" and it was good to go:yes:

SMOKEU
30th July 2010, 20:26
I've been using Ubuntu for about 6 months now, and I've never looked back. It's better than Windows in almost every way. It's faster, more secure, more stable and has a nicer interface, and you don't have to mess around with dodgy Windows hacks and cracks.

I still keep Windows XP installed because I am quite keen on playing games such as Call of Duty, which aren't available on Linux. For general computer use, such as web browsing, word processing etc, Linux is the way to go.

For more specialist tasks, like hardcore video or audio production and gaming, then it's best to stick with Windows.

HQfiend
30th July 2010, 21:13
Been running Ubuntu 9.04 for 18 months after migrating from Windoze XP. I find it perfectly fine for family use. I use open office with evolution mail (tedious transferring outlook mail over to it though) and find that every file type that is sent to me works fine. I have gimp for pictures xsane for scanning from the flatbed scanner, gnome mplayer and movieplayer for most videoo formats and a bunch of other apps to do odd stuff. If the software is only windoze then there is WINE (windoze emulator) but I've not needed to use it. My work laptop is XP so that does the power commander III USB stuff I need.

I have found Ubuntu to be way more secure than windoze and also 3 year old proof to boot! Boot up and shut down time is under a minute and CPU isn't loaded down with useless crap running in the back ground just in case you need it unlike windoze.

For me and mine a good choice, try it you might like it!

SMOKEU
30th July 2010, 21:25
linux is good for technical stuff. for specialists etc. not a everyday user at home.
if you want to get away from microshaft's buggy windows operating system. and like linux.

there is a working friendly perfect faultless operating system called OS X, by apple buy an apple.

as they say, an apple a day keeps the comptuer doctor away :).

Why isn't Linux good for the everyday user at home? Most Windows computers are infested with spyware, adware, etc, whereas Linux doesn't have that problem as much. Ask the average Windows user if they do regular virus and spyware scans and they'll look at you with a blank stare, and then they wonder why their computer is so slow compared to when they first bought it.

I know that Ubuntu has a much simpler interface than Windows, and it doesn't need drivers manually installed for new hardware to the same extent that Windows does.

As for Mac? Macs are gay, they're a pointless waste of money.

Insanity_rules
30th July 2010, 21:27
Linux is good for propeller heads , I like it and use suse as a desktop and debian as a server. For people who don't want to be computer experts then windows is perfectly fine. Windows 7 is even not too bad as far as microsoft goes.

If you want to try it out its reasonably easy to install a dual boot (you can either boot to Windows or Linux) of Ubuntu or Suse, which in my opinion are the easiest Linux disties for the beginner.

Apple I fiind is good for certain things but not as an all rounder.

Your call if you want to try something different.

NighthawkNZ
30th July 2010, 21:29
Have Ubuntu on my laptop and is pretty easy to use... and thinking of switching our XP media system to Ubuntu with XBMC.

As every one elase has said... depends what you want it for.

Windows is/has come a long way since Win9x family. Designed to be easy to use and install/uninstall applications. Targeted at the Home/Average business. Easy to upgrade the hardware and software. Heaps of applications both freeware and commeral. Most hardware will have Windows drivers.

Mac/OSX. Has its own problems is not as stable as it is made out to be. However it is targeted at the Multi-Media users and business...Limited on the hardware upgrades and software.

Linux. Is based on the Unix OS, and is now a stable and mature OS, but when it does crash and can crash in a big way... targeted for the IT, internet/LAN and networks, servers and the like. Is slowly making its way to desktop and home user market. Drivers for hardware can be a problem, but many manufactures are starting to develop drivers for their hardware.



Software Equivilants
Average office and home applications equivilants...

Windows - Linux


MS Office - OpenOffice.org
Internet Explorer - Firefox or Konqueror
Outlook - Kontact or Evolution
PhotoShop/CorelPaint - GiMP
PageMaker/InDesign/Publisher - Scibus
Illustrator/CorelDRAW/Freehand - InkScape
Auditon - Audacity
Dreamweaver - NVU or KompoZer

geoffm
30th July 2010, 22:33
My now 5year old Dell 5150 lappie has had a dead DVD drive from 3 weeks after the warranty expired... Reinstalling XP from a pendrive is frustrating to say the least, andlast time, after days of cursing, I changed to Ubuntu.
Installed no problems, although Google and ubuntuforums will become your friends.
It worked out of the box, in fact better than XP for drivers. Since it runs off a CD or pendrive, you can try it out without any changes to your drive.

The good - it is much small than XP, boots much faster and is generally quicker. The central software depository is great - easy to go shopping for programs, download several and try them out. It also looks after updates.
The Gnome file manager is much nicer than Windows Explorer.

The bad
You have to tweak it - use NDIS wrapper to convert your windows network card drivers to run in Linux if it doesn't recognise them automatically, Wifi Radar to set up the wireless card easily. Due to copyright, it doesn't play DVDs out of the box without downloading a file. Nothing to much, but it takes time and is not for everyone. Not the same as getting a PC from Harvey Normans and plugging it in, ready to go.
Minor niggles include the nice visual effects are incompatible with the Nvida drivers so movies won't play without turning them off. There is no decent Ebay sniper tool if you buy from Ebay in the US, compared with dozens in Windows.
and of course, some Windows programs don't have direct replacements or they aren't as good. I use Forte Agent newsreader under Wine, as none of the linux ones were IMO as good. Printer drivers are hit and miss. I ended up buying Turboprint to get all the features of my Canon inkjet printing, such as using the DVD tray, although the easy to use Canon CDLabel program doesn't work in WINE. My Brother laser printer just plugged in and went with no hitches. The battery monitor doesn't work to give you the battery level of the laptop. This sort of stuff is where Windows is better - it just works.


Overall, I prefer it to WinXP. I haven't used WIn7 so I can't comment on it. By all accounts, it is very good (what Vista should have been and wasn't). If i was buying a new computer - probably would use Win 7 - being in the mainstream sometimes makes life easier if you have to work with others or in the niche programs. For this older computer, it is ideal with the lower overhead.
Try Ubuntu or Mint linux and see if you like it

Forest
30th July 2010, 22:47
Linux v Windows? They both suck, particularly on laptops.

Save yourself some grief and get an Apple.

SMOKEU
30th July 2010, 22:49
Linux v Windows? They both suck, particularly on laptops.

Save yourself some grief and get an Apple.

I hope you're trolling!

Macs are gay. Really, really gay.

Big Dave
30th July 2010, 23:11
As for Mac? Macs are gay, they're a pointless waste of money.


You know why I get paid to fly all over the world to test ride motorcycles? Skill with mac computers.

Sucks to be you huh.

SMOKEU
30th July 2010, 23:21
You know why I get paid to fly all over the world to test ride motorcycles? Skill with mac computers.

Sucks to be you huh.

Mac computers are shit though. They look nice, which is why ignorant fools fork out obscene amounts of cash for little more than a dressed up Windows PC with a different OS on it. In other words, it's like a $10,000 GN250 with nice fairings pretending to be a CBR250.

Big Dave
30th July 2010, 23:24
>>Mac/OSX. Has its own problems is not as stable as it is made out to be.<<

Been running a 27" quad core iMac with 10.6.4 for the last 6 weeks. Crashed it once - before I took it to 8gb ram. Been sweet as a nut since. Running CS5 and it's all very slick.

That's my main reason for platform 'loyalty' - the investment I've already made in software. I don't actually care. They all do the jobs I do - but I'm most comfortable and faster doing them in OSX.

To me it's all like the way some carpenters like Estwing hammers and some like Stanleys. They both drive nails - it's matter of which one the individual knows best and prefers banging.

Big Dave
30th July 2010, 23:31
Mac computers are shit though. They look nice, which is why ignorant fools fork out obscene amounts of cash for little more than a dressed up Windows PC with a different OS on it. In other words, it's like a $10,000 GN250 with nice fairings pretending to be a CBR250.

I could have bought a dell for less - not much less - and I wouldn't have got a $500 ipod chucked in or enjoy the supportive relationship I do with my supplier.

There's often more to business than the cheapest option.

SMOKEU
30th July 2010, 23:34
I could have bought a dell for less - not much less - and I wouldn't have got a $500 ipod chucked in or enjoy the supportive relationship I do with my supplier.

There's often more to business than the cheapest option.

I just don't see the point in paying significantly more for a product, which is inferior to the cheaper product.

Big Dave
30th July 2010, 23:35
I just don't see the point in paying significantly more for a product, which is inferior to the cheaper product.

Says you. I have 20 years as a satisfied customer and know how to read a spec sheet.

Squiggles
30th July 2010, 23:39
Mac computers are shit though. They look nice, which is why ignorant fools fork out obscene amounts of cash for little more than a dressed up Windows PC with a different OS on it. In other words, it's like a $10,000 GN250 with nice fairings pretending to be a CBR250.

Homophobe.

SMOKEU
30th July 2010, 23:43
Says you. I have 20 years as a satisfied customer and know how to read a spec sheet.

I've built every computer I've ever owned from scratch, so you'd think I would know a thing or 2 about computers, the hardware side at least.


Homophobe.

Macs are still gay.

Squiggles
30th July 2010, 23:51
I've built every computer I've ever owned from scratch, so you'd think I would know a thing or 2 about computers, the hardware side at least.


<img src="http://www.regardsbox.com/imagebox/congratulations/congrats_retard_cs.jpg"></img>

SMOKEU
30th July 2010, 23:52
<img src="http://www.regardsbox.com/imagebox/congratulations/congrats_retard_cs.jpg"></img>

If you were as pissed as what I am now, you also wouldn't be able to provide a good argument.

jonbuoy
30th July 2010, 23:54
I like MAC hardware and OSX in general but I hate the way you are forced to do things the MAC way - if you question any annoying aspect of the OS (like fullscreening apps) the fanboys appear and say its not the MAC that should change its you. They are fantastic for desktop publishing and pretty hard to break, its the childish "MAC Fashion" zealots that get me, they are like the freaking Jehovaīs witnesses trying to convince everyone thereīs is the best OS - it isnīt for everyone.

Squiggles
31st July 2010, 00:00
If you were as pissed as what I am now, you also wouldn't be able to provide a good argument.


<img src="http://forum.ntreev.net/grandchase/forums/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Discussions.Components.Files/10/7041.Riveting_5F00_tale_5F00_chap.jpg"></img>

SMOKEU
31st July 2010, 00:02
<img src="http://forum.ntreev.net/grandchase/forums/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Discussions.Components.Files/10/7041.Riveting_5F00_tale_5F00_chap.jpg"></img>

What a buzzy cunt!

Gubb
31st July 2010, 00:04
Just like Telecom is uncool and any other provider except Telecom is cool.

There's a difference between being "uncool" and downright cunts. Telecom exceed at their cuntiness.

I'm talking to you Paul Reynolds!

Big Dave
31st July 2010, 00:25
My juice is too valuable to spend building hardware.

SMOKEU
31st July 2010, 00:44
My juice is too valuable to spend building hardware.

It's all part of the fun, sir.

Big Dave
31st July 2010, 00:58
The more I learn CSS the more I like to play there.

It don't matter what made it or reads it.

scracha
31st July 2010, 01:33
Linux....kinda derived from Unix so a lot of it's code has been around for um... 50 years. Ubuntu....slow, shite. It'd put me off Linux TBH. If you've got old hardware then I'd go with Suse. Takes a while to install though. If you want to run off a cd to try it then knoppix. If you want something that boots in about 30 seconds and runs on everything then Damn Small Linux is great. Unless you've got very standard hardware and are just surfing the web and doing email then don't be under any illusion that you'll never have to fuck about with script files and command line interfaces though.

Mac's.. very nice, expensive but complete $hit to fix (they're not bulletproof and really not designed to be easily worked on) so make sure you have Applecare extended warranty thingie.

Win 7....so far so good. Impressive. Safest choice for a cheap desktop IMHO. Combine with cheapo USB drive and use it's built in complete system backup and you're pretty much sorted if it fucks out.



Sticking a motherboard in a case, plugging in a half dozen cables, drives, PSU & CPU should never be called "building a PC" either.

Gremlin
31st July 2010, 02:24
what pissed me off with apple was being forced to do things their way. ipods as well. Windows, do things your way, and I like pulling it apart. Also, been very impressed with windows 7, hardware, drivers and especially printers.

Brian d marge
31st July 2010, 04:18
Been running Ubuntu 9.04 for 18 months after migrating from Windoze XP. I find it perfectly fine for family use. I use open office with evolution mail (tedious transferring outlook mail over to it though) and find that every file type that is sent to me works fine. I have gimp for pictures xsane for scanning from the flatbed scanner, gnome mplayer and movieplayer for most videoo formats and a bunch of other apps to do odd stuff. If the software is only windoze then there is WINE (windoze emulator) but I've not needed to use it. My work laptop is XP so that does the power commander III USB stuff I need.

I have found Ubuntu to be way more secure than windoze and also 3 year old proof to boot! Boot up and shut down time is under a minute and CPU isn't loaded down with useless crap running in the back ground just in case you need it unlike windoze.

For me and mine a good choice, try it you might like it!

Agreed

I stuffed up Xp a few years ago , was over in NZ my grandfather had a new copy I decided to use it only to be told it stuff up his copy if I registered it bum and after some time i was told to register it or what ever

so i tried Ubuntu 6,06 , it ( THEN) was a little bit of a learning curve ( i was also newish to computers )
but the distro has come on in leaps and bound and is fit and forget almost! ( if you do stuff it up , slot in the cd , access a wonderful user group and the cut and paste the step by step solution and for me this is the good bit if you are as backward as me is wiv computaz

Evolution is almost like outlook and this is what I have found to be the dark side

because it isn't so main stream , the big vendors only release stuff for mac and windows sure there are stable work arounds which are easy to do , such as this WIFI I am using now, I needed netwrapper to use the windows file to make my wifi work

Sounds complicated but , go to software centre , type wifi dont work , or even the software's name
bingo a list and short ( sometimes not to clear explanation , click , click apply ,,,job done insert cd , drag , driver onto desktop or I put it in a folder called software , run netwrap ( I think its all automatic now ) and it found run and installed WIFI all good

Now I use LOTS of Software for engineering , HERE Linux sort of came unstuck

because the big companies charge big dollars for software CFD, CAD, GGI etc I needed the linux equivalent

its was and is there,,,, and just as powerful if not more so , BUT not so user friendly , here I am thinking of Gimp and Blender ( photoshop and Maya cgi )

But a little perseverance and at the other side of the tunnel I have a complete workstation JUST as good if not more so , ,,,for free ,,,,complete with free help desk

Also its completely customisable to whatever u want to do with it, you want to do it , google and someone has done it , with free cut and paste solutions

One last thing

Ubuntu is good but I use linux mint , which IS ubuntu , with the bugs ironed out and all the codecs and flash all loaded and working , ( 20 min install including the office etc )
As its Ubuntu , you can use the Ubuntu forums for answers or ideas

For me, I am a happy camper, No viruses , malware defraging and a stable system , if I stuff it up, by trying something I know nothing about usually , i can restore OR easier reinstall ( yes ! without losing software or documents or anything )
slip the cd in answer a few questions and bingo done ( now I will admit that is a bit out of the ordinary , but i just posted a message saying how do you do that , someone replied I printed it out and now when I install I just follow the map

You can even run ubuntu Inside windows , as a separate folder , or Dual boot ( pain ) or I use a virtual machine and windows become a task bar on the bottom of the screen , ( so easy to do )

Worst case , burn a cd , try it , it will be slower but if you dont like it take the cd out and rewrite it with a movie , nothing lost except time

Stephen

Yes a big fan but i was honest here with my experience ( ie its not perfect)

Ronin
31st July 2010, 05:29
My vote: Win7

I have yet to see an win 7 machine infected. It's stable(r), quick and nice to use. Quick and easy to use and does what you want.

Linux... I use it myself. I can't bring myself to sell someone a machine with Linux installed. I could... but I won't because most people just won't 'get' it.

Urano
31st July 2010, 06:10
Dear Mom...
i'm really sorry... :laugh: :laugh:

ok, now, i'll try to tell you what you care only, and to stay short...

Windows sucks. you'll never understand how much until you'll try something else.
Stated this, it is anyway the best choice if the only thing you're interested in is playing videogames and videochatting with msn. Aside those things windows is still a good choice for a little number of very technical uses, which i think you couldn't care less...

so i really encourage you to try something else.
the first thing people would tell you about "any-other-OS-than-win" is: "there's no software".
let's put it in this way: with win you have a million web browser to choose within. with linux you'll have ten thousand, with mac 5 thousand, with other os prolly 5 hundred.
now, how many web browser you normally use?
so, in 99% of the cases, this is not a factor.

without changing your hardware linux is prolly your best shot.
as others said i'll stay on ubuntu or mint. i'd prefer mint for a small number of reasons, but consider that mint is ubuntu at 99%, so it's basically the same stuff...
linux is phenomenal for net application: surfing web, e-mailing, playing videos and music.
you can run office applications with the same file types of microsoft office. you'll have problems (solvable) to manage an ipod.
linux is good also for a lot of other technical stuff, which as before you'll probably couldn't care less...
linux is no good to play videogames as you are used on win, so be open to find a new way to play with your pc, or get a wii. :niceone:

then mac.
i'm a mac user.
i've used win for years.
i've used linux.
i'm angry with apple, cause mac could really be a 1000 times better than what it is. but, at today's date, is sadly the best choice possible.
only one thing you almost cannot do on a mac. play games. you'll be very very sad if you'll buy a mac to play videogames, prolly the situation is worse than on linux. but not counting that is a gain on almost everything.
the bad new is that you'll have to change your hardware, and it seems expensive at the first glance.


if i were you i'd go for mint, just to try a pair of months. :niceone:

Mom
31st July 2010, 07:53
Some good stuff in here, thanks guys. Be good to keep it on topic though.

The reason for this thread, I am looking at a position where Linux is the OS used, I have never used it. I am a Windows/Office user. I dont want to look like a total fool if I take this position and cant use the PC :pinch:

I have never had too many problems with new software applications so am picking this will be the case switching to Linux. Part of my role will be minor IT stuff, is this system too much different from a Windows based one?

SpankMe
31st July 2010, 08:27
Some good stuff in here, thanks guys. Be good to keep it on topic though.

The reason for this thread, I am looking at a position where Linux is the OS used, I have never used it. I am a Windows/Office user. I dont want to look like a total fool if I take this position and cant use the PC :pinch:

I have never had too many problems with new software applications so am picking this will be the case switching to Linux. Part of my role will be minor IT stuff, is this system too much different from a Windows based one?

Get a second cheapy secondhand PC/laptop, install Linux on it and play.

Mom
31st July 2010, 08:28
Get a second cheapy secondhand PC/laptop, install Linux on it and play.

Who made you so smart :D

What a good idea.

Big Dave
31st July 2010, 10:13
what pissed me off with apple was being forced to do things their way. ipods as well.


I'm the opposite. The tool works just fine for me, right out of the box and I have no desire to mess around with how it works. I'd rather make stuff with it.

I now have five working iPods.

I agree with gaming is limited on macs.

But then, I gave my playstation to Jnr because since I have about 60 games on my iPod touch I don't use the PS any more.

The computer is for work and it works.

It's about the right tool for the job, Tim. If I was doing network admins I wouldn't use a mac, 10 years ago I had a wintel box for 3D modeling. Now I do artwork and it's the best box for it. It's the best solution for the task at hand.

Same as motorcycles. It's the way designers think. It's all a series of problems and you chose the best solutions for them. My Buell is one of the most versatile bikes on the market and is extremely good for tall men who ride like I do - the optimum solution to my transportation problems. I'd buy a Suzuki tomorrow if it offered a better set of answers. I'm totally brand or machine fickle. It's entirely about the solution - not who manufactured it or owns it.

It's called WIIFM. What's in it for me?

One of the tricks to the reviewing bikes is to twist it to 'What's in it for you.' I say do the same with the computing machines Ma. Task -> solution.

SMOKEU
31st July 2010, 10:22
Linux....kinda derived from Unix so a lot of it's code has been around for um... 50 years. Ubuntu....slow, shite. It'd put me off Linux TBH.

Yeah, it's been around for about 50 years, but it's certainly not slow. It's the fastest and most stable modern OS I've ever used. Even after I've installed lots of third party software on it, it still doesn't become really slow like Windows.

NighthawkNZ
31st July 2010, 11:23
>>Mac/OSX. Has its own problems is not as stable as it is made out to be.<<

Been running a 27" quad core iMac with 10.6.4 for the last 6 weeks. Crashed it once - before I took it to 8gb ram.
You have crashed you mac more times than i have crashed Windows...??? now before you go it do nothing on it...

I do full multimedi, video editing both analogue and digital, recording and writing my own music, graphic design, as well as Database crap... then the standard surf and email stuff what the average user does

But I do not install every new app like the average user i see does...I pick what I want to do with the system, install the apps required... and stick with it...

Using XP never had a virus... been stable...

The major issue is Mac have their own hardware made for them an drivers for it all checked by apple... Windows and PC's hve to manage all the hardware made every one and their dog and lord knows what the driver was written by... conflicting with the other driver writen but snot nosed pigme from PNG... Personally it doesn't do to bad considering that.


Every sytem has its uses... ;)

Big Dave
31st July 2010, 12:01
You have crashed you mac more times than i have crashed Windows...???


Yeah - had everything open and ran it out of memory while seeing what Photoshop can do with the 3D modeling that now comes included.

jonbuoy
31st July 2010, 15:13
Some good stuff in here, thanks guys. Be good to keep it on topic though.

The reason for this thread, I am looking at a position where Linux is the OS used, I have never used it. I am a Windows/Office user. I dont want to look like a total fool if I take this position and cant use the PC :pinch:

I have never had too many problems with new software applications so am picking this will be the case switching to Linux. Part of my role will be minor IT stuff, is this system too much different from a Windows based one?

In which case you will be fine, you will find the desktop very similar to windows drag drop and double clicks - nothing too different. If you download open office for Windows you will give yourself a head start, its just like earlier versions of MS office. A small office with an open source Linux server and half a dozen desktops would have saved themselves thousands in software.

OutForADuck
31st July 2010, 15:51
OH you really are going to get a few replys.. but if you want to play around with Linux and see for ya self with little hassle, I have an install on a USB stick you can boot off if you like... Could either get someone to drop it off or post it you, unless you feel confident enough to take an iso image and write it onto a CD, then I can just point you in the right direction to download.

pritch
31st July 2010, 16:16
I have played with Linux and liked it. Used two different releases of SuSE but pretty much just for email and surfing. Sort of drifted away from Linux a few years ago when I bought the iPod, then a camera. Would've been good if I could write my own drivers. What a state of grace!

Also had a Knoppix CD as a "lifeboat" in case all else failed.

Mom, I wouldn't muck about with dual booting. The suggestion to install Linux (pronounced Leenux by the way) on a cheap machine is a good one.

My last PC was XP Pro but when it died it was replaced with a Macbook Pro running OS X Snow Leopard. As I write there is a large manual by my chair. Most of the information though is still in the manual, not in my head.

So far this laptop ,with Open Office, does anything I want. Working with Photographs takes longer than I'd like, simply because I'm not used to the Apple software. If I had to print anything I'd just send it, or take it, to work and print it there. One day when I'm bored...

At work the servers are Apache but all workstations are Windows. I regard the huge amount of money the Government departments spend on Microsoft licencing to be something of a scandalous waste. I guess though that since all the IT staff have presumably been hired on the basis of their MS qualifications there'd be a fat chance of any of them recommending a switch.

My bank uses a Unix OS so all is not lost.

Mom
31st July 2010, 17:04
OH you really are going to get a few replys.. but if you want to play around with Linux and see for ya self with little hassle, I have an install on a USB stick you can boot off if you like... Could either get someone to drop it off or post it you, unless you feel confident enough to take an iso image and write it onto a CD, then I can just point you in the right direction to download.

What a lovely offer. I will be bringing my mothers old clunker PC up here when I can summon the strength to go and pack stuff up, and might just take you up on it then. Thank you.

NighthawkNZ
31st July 2010, 17:52
A good site tofind Open Source Alternatives

http://www.osalt.com/

ffirman
31st July 2010, 18:00
What a lovely offer. I will be bringing my mothers old clunker PC up here when I can summon the strength to go and pack stuff up, and might just take you up on it then. Thank you.

I also can give you some pointers if you get stuck. I have gotten my Dad onto Linux and also a friend here in West Auckland, who just uses her pc for facebook, and photos of her kids.

And it would give me a good excuse to go for a ride :innocent:



Fran

Urano
1st August 2010, 08:04
Yeah - had everything open and ran it out of memory while seeing what Photoshop can do with the 3D modeling that now comes included.

that is not a system crash.

actually is one of the coolest thing you could do with a mac.
take a mac.
open the "application" folder.
select all the application icons.
double click.

the system will knee down, thirsty of ram, will crawl for minutes swapping on the hd.
but, if you'll have a little patience, it will survive, and everything will (slowly) work just fine...
in the worst case it would freeze the GUI (never seen, though) but the OS is still working.

a crash is when you see that grey multilingual screen with a on/off symbol on it.
in 8 years of mac i've seen it on the internet only, so i know it exists...


now, repeat the said experiment with a win pc.
please keep children at distance and place behind a fireproof barrier before trying... :laugh: :laugh:

ckai
1st August 2010, 09:24
Apart from all the geeks that get all excited over lines of code every day, is there any "normal [sic], average, everyday, have no idea what a command line is" people using a linux system???

Now, now, don't anyone be taking offense. I get excited about the odd piece of code as well but I'm no "hard-core" junkie.

What I'm asking is, has any geek here given a linux loaded PC to there computer-illiterate parents/mistress/grandparents and let them go at it with only very minor instructions?

I've never used linux so I'm just interested. I've used PC's most of my life but I'm sorry to say I'm GAY and really started enjoying using computers since we changed to macs.

But that's off topic. The bottom line is, could a computer newbie use linux? If the shit hit the fan could they fix it themselves (not hardware issues) or could they be talked through something that would solve the problem on the phone within 5 mins?

PC's are not too bad for this. I'm sorry to say in my personal experience, I have never seen a more perfect OS for newbies than Mac. This is after switching 4 complete "what's this arrow thing on the screen" beginners to them.

I am open to be proved otherwise and this is only my experiences. I'd love to have a play with linux (in fact may load it onto USB to have a play on the PC) but it seems to be expert based (like others have mentioned).

Urano
1st August 2010, 10:12
could a computer newbie use linux?


yes he could.
http://www.comune.modena.it/
the whole municipality computer system is on linux (red hat, i think...) and all the administration's office pcs are running linux.
i don't know how's going down there, but here there is no one as "newbie" as a public administration's clerk.
they start it up, click on the "everyday" icon on the desktop pretending to work, go to the coffee machine, switch it down at 6 pm.
they don't even know what actually is an "os".

i remember my pilot union pcs were running on linux too.
so. it's possible.


I have never seen a more perfect OS for newbies than Mac

i completely agree.

Big Dave
1st August 2010, 11:10
that is not a system crash.

actually is one of the coolest thing you could do with a mac.
tak


If you have to manually hold the power button down - it's a crash. The rest is detail. In this case the finder would not change applications and was locked up.

Yours and my idea of what is cool are also way different. :-)

My idea is a cheque for artwork sold.

ffirman
1st August 2010, 11:25
Yes I have.

I have it installed for my father, thou he is fairly computer literate, thou I still get some very interesting questions from him.

And I have for a friend of us. And she is really not a computer person at all. She uses it to play games on facebook, add photos there from her camera, which she connects to the computer via usb.

For her I installed Ubuntu, which I upgraded for her remotely.

She can scan, and print with her brother printer, thou I did setup the scanner software for her.. It actually was easier to do than I expected. I am quite impressed with the support the Brother have for linux. So much so we bought a brother printer as well, and their network printer can scan and print over the network to linux sweet.

Now and then I have to answer questions for her, but I have found them less of an issue than when she was running Windows XP. Most of the questions have actually been caused by her hiding things in her browser.. She is using sometimes, firefox, and other times Chrome.

For her photos she is using f-spot, which has an export directly to facebook, and allows her to tag and sort them.

For any word processing, she is using Openoffice, which her daughter has used for doing her CV etc.

I believe in using the tool that fits for the job, and for myself I found it easier to use Linux, but my wife likes her Windows 7. My kids use a mixture of Linux or XP, depending on if they want to play games.

Most of the time thou they play games via the PS3, or xbox 360.

Hope that helps out.

Fran


Apart from all the geeks that get all excited over lines of code every day, is there any "normal [sic], average, everyday, have no idea what a command line is" people using a linux system???

Now, now, don't anyone be taking offense. I get excited about the odd piece of code as well but I'm no "hard-core" junkie.

What I'm asking is, has any geek here given a linux loaded PC to there computer-illiterate parents/mistress/grandparents and let them go at it with only very minor instructions?

I've never used linux so I'm just interested. I've used PC's most of my life but I'm sorry to say I'm GAY and really started enjoying using computers since we changed to macs.

But that's off topic. The bottom line is, could a computer newbie use linux? If the shit hit the fan could they fix it themselves (not hardware issues) or could they be talked through something that would solve the problem on the phone within 5 mins?

PC's are not too bad for this. I'm sorry to say in my personal experience, I have never seen a more perfect OS for newbies than Mac. This is after switching 4 complete "what's this arrow thing on the screen" beginners to them.

I am open to be proved otherwise and this is only my experiences. I'd love to have a play with linux (in fact may load it onto USB to have a play on the PC) but it seems to be expert based (like others have mentioned).

scracha
1st August 2010, 11:36
Yeah, it's been around for about 50 years, but it's certainly not slow. It's the fastest and most stable modern OS I've ever used. Even after I've installed lots of third party software on it, it still doesn't become really slow like Windows.

Christ I've never undrestood technology fanboys. I guess you're using an Android phone too? Horses for courses, I just want shit that works and I don't have to fuck about with. Better things to do with my life. I've got a notebook running Suse and a debian file server here. I use linux all the time for fixing/diagnosing these Evil Windoze machines you seem to hate. I used to develop software for arrays of Shark DSP's and PowerPC's running VXWorks. I therefore put it to you that I vaguely know what the fuck I'm talking about. Read my post. I never said Linux was slow, I said the Ubuntu distro was slow.

Software choice...yes, I want to run the OS that over 90% of developers target. Windows 7 may or may not have nicked stuff from Apple and Unix...I personally don't give a fuck, it works and is easy to use. Windows 7 is VERY good. Shit it has its problems and I wish they'd drop their registry database but I guess that would break most legacy apps but I digress. Sales would indicate that most of the world agrees with me. OS-X is also very good. Get over it.



But that's off topic. The bottom line is, could a computer newbie use linux? If the shit hit the fan could they fix it themselves (not hardware issues) or could they be talked through something that would solve the problem on the phone within 5 mins?

Yes, they could use it. Assuming their choice of distro picks up most of their drivers. If shit hits the fan, no, most users can not fix it in 5 minutes. And yes, it DOES BREAK like any other OS. Phone support...for a free OS...nope. There are commercial versions of Linux but most of the fanboys seem to hate paying for anything. A lot of the Linux forums are full of not so friendly and discouraging smart arses too.


Original poster asking about doing IT support with Linux. Umm...it's not so much an operating system as a way of life :innocent: After using it for 10 years you'll have probably only skimmed the surface of it. Best get the "linux for dummies book", start fanging around with a distro and find a kind linux-hippy who you can call in case of emergencies. Worst case scenario you get found out after gaining a lot of new skills :innocent:

cowboyz
1st August 2010, 12:35
bckground.. I am a closet geek.. been one for years. yes I do know how pcs work and yes.. I am very very lazy


right... Linux. waste of frikken time.. Get it if you have loads of time on your hands and want to surf the internet reading through bundles of docs to get the smallest thing to work. Oh.. and the only response you will get from the open source community is RTFM!

Windows however, comes with most pcs. The cost of it doesnt really come into it unless you want to upgrade to the next level of windows and then chances are your hardware will suck on it anyhow. I stay with windows because

a> its popular
b> it does the job.

I muck around with Linux from time to time when I feeling all geeky. I setup a media centre on a old pc which worked good until I figured out you can buy a very compact media centre from dse for $80 which does everything for you and is the size of a pack of ciggys.

all in all.. stick with windows or buy a shitload of aspirin.

Big Dave
1st August 2010, 13:58
Christ I've never undrestood technology fanboys.

The kid is a pretty good gee-up merchant though. Crosses the line with the swastikas, but we dish out a few gangster slaps and he's back for more.

Like I thought Ural motorcycles were a pretty safe, soft target, till my publisher bought one.

Urano
1st August 2010, 20:19
If you have to manually hold the power button down - it's a crash. The rest is detail.

if you open all the openable and expect to use the computer just 15 seconds after the click, the problem is between the keyboard and...

the right question now is: did you "really" had to hold down the power button, or there was another option you didn't considered?



In this case the finder would not change applications and was locked up.


the day you begin to use linux you'll see clearly the difference between a gui lock up and a os crash.
the worst thing to do often is restart x11 or xorg...
;)



The cost of it doesnt really come into it unless you want to upgrade to the next level of windows and then chances are your hardware will suck on it anyhow. I stay with windows because

a> its popular
b> it does the job.

the european community approved a document saying that you have the right to have back the price of windows license, if it comes preloaded on the machine and you already have a copy or you don't want to use it...

a) bad reason
b) good reason. if it's enough for you, there's really no reason to get headache on useless problems. i'd only hope people choose after having collected information, not being stuck on what the retailer give them... :niceone: (i'm not so sure of this sentence: is it understandable?)

cowboyz
2nd August 2010, 08:07
think of it like this then.

I go buy a Vtwin. It does the job. Good bike. But someone else has a inline 4. Id really like an IL4 so I run round trying to attach another 2 cyclinders to it to try and make it work just like an IL4.. when really .. it was just fine the way it was.


bit obsure but Linux being a Vtwin and windows being an IL4

my point it.. your never gonna get Linux to do things as easierly as modern version of windows. There has been buckets and buckets of paid delevopment going into windows to make sure the dumbest people in the world can use it!

Okey Dokey
2nd August 2010, 09:10
Cheers to everyone who contributed to this thread. Interesting stuff.

Urano
2nd August 2010, 09:18
There has been buckets and buckets of paid delevopment going into windows to make sure the dumbest people in the world can use it!

...and, considering the buckets and buckets of money spent by people on pc technicians, support, time spent on reformatting the hd, yelling at the monitor, bangin the head on the keyboard...


they've failed miserably...

Big Dave
2nd August 2010, 09:28
the day you begin to use linux you'll see clearly the difference between a gui lock up and a os crash.


You assume I would care.

>>
the right question now is: did you "really" had to hold down the power button, or there was another option you didn't considered?<<

more than 10 hours of nearly every day using a variety of operating systems for more than 20 years.

10 years contracting to a mac store as an onsite software tech and apps trainer.

10 years as an art director and production manager to various publishing houses.

I know where the power button is :-)

It didn't have enough RAM for what I was asking it to do and malfunctioned. No further questions M'lord.

Appears it needs 8gb to deal with these in photoshop:
http://www.the3dstudio.com/product_details.aspx?id_product=72517

and run other apps at the same time. Notably inDesign, which although not evidenced running CS5 in 10.6.2 so much, has always been a memory vandal.

ckai
2nd August 2010, 09:33
Cheers to those that said about Newbies vs Linux :)

I might have to put that to the test and get the parents to give it a whirl for shits and giggles.

Ronin
2nd August 2010, 09:58
Of course, something to consider is that now Mom has said that her use is for a job it is likely that all she will ever have to do is sit down, logon and use the apps. No worry about anything else.

Mom
2nd August 2010, 09:59
Of course, something to consider is that now Mom has said that her use is for a job it is likely that all she will ever have to do is sit down, logon and use the apps. No worry about anything else.

True dat, but what an intersting thread this has turned out to be :D

NighthawkNZ
2nd August 2010, 10:01
The Mac OSX is Unix based anyway...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X

avgas
2nd August 2010, 10:01
$10,000 GN250 with nice fairings pretending to be a CBR250.
True......but you also have to remember that if people WANT to buy a $10,000 GN250, not even a OMG FLASH CBR250 is going to stop them doing so. This is why people buy expensive things. e.g. Aprilla RS250 vs Suzuki RGV250 same shit different skin. But fuck me I would prefer the Aprilla.

Fact of the matter is Mac have worked on something for 20 years, and ended up with something that they can mass market to a broad audience. Hardware wise I think they have done something pretty incredible.
I mean think of the fanless computers in 1990......Apple was the only one.

I would never own an Mac, but quite happily recommend them to friends a family. 15 years in technical support has told me that it's ALWAYS good to make a simple solution.

Likewise I also recommend Linux Mint for beginner linux users. It is the only Linux I have managed to stick with when not using windows. Its simple, it works......and you don't have to type a single line of code EVER!

Ronin
2nd August 2010, 10:02
True dat, but what an intersting thread this has turned out to be :D

Yup, once you dig through the fanboi posts lol. Mind you... I'm wondering now about installing Ubuntu on my work machine just to see if I can do everything I need to... Hmmmm I have to use IE for our CRM program but WINE may take care of that... I feel a project coming on.

avgas
2nd August 2010, 10:03
...and, considering the buckets and buckets of money spent by people on pc technicians, support, time spent on reformatting the hd, yelling at the monitor, bangin the head on the keyboard...


they've failed miserably...

No offense - but I believe the term is unthinking majority

Urano
2nd August 2010, 10:03
more than 10 hours of nearly every day using a variety of operating systems for more than 20 years.
10 years contracting to a mac store as an onsite software tech and apps trainer.
10 years as an art director and production manager to various publishing houses.

ok, still don't get what running out of ram could have to do with it, but you definitely have enough experience to recognize a kernel panic.
let's count your case as 1 in statistic.
i'm in a mac ml, about 1200 members, mostly professionals. roughly in 7 years i heard about 3-4 cases, and remember explanations of defective aftermarket ram chips, and a lighting strike.
let's add yours.
5 kp in 7 years within 1k professionals, power user.

i'd call it a good record...

Mom
2nd August 2010, 10:04
WINE may take care of that...

Wine takes care of most things I find :yes:

ffirman
2nd August 2010, 10:13
Yup, once you dig through the fanboi posts lol. Mind you... I'm wondering now about installing Ubuntu on my work machine just to see if I can do everything I need to... Hmmmm I have to use IE for our CRM program but WINE may take care of that... I feel a project coming on.

Try using VirtualBox, either to run the Linux under first, or later to run windows under for the XP etc.

Here at work that is what I do. ie I have Ubuntu on my notebook, and VirtualBox setup to run a copy of XP just so I can request leave, and do the support tickets.

Most of the time I don't have it running, only when I need to.

Just a thought.

Fran

Big Dave
2nd August 2010, 10:30
ok, still don't get what running out of ram could have to do with it, but you definitely have enough experience to recognize a kernel panic.
l...


My call would be the amount of polygons it was dealing with put it into a fatal loop that consumed all its insufficient available resources. I agree it could possibly have been resolved by the OS given enough time.

The point of diminishing return in waiting for it to do so was duly reached. Everything saved and backed up. Nix it. It crashed - to anyone but a geek splitting hairs :-)

I've seen an entire ad studio network fried by a lightning strike. Scorch-marks on the walls where the ethernet cables used to be.

Big Dave
2nd August 2010, 12:04
I had a processor fail on a G5 too. Died just before its fifth birthday. It was good for about 20 crashes on the total.

NighthawkNZ
2nd August 2010, 12:37
I've still got a Commodore 128D... oh wait wrong thread...

Big Dave
2nd August 2010, 12:44
I've still go a Commodore 128D... oh wait wrong thread...


Did you look at some of those 3D models - how do you reckon it would deal?

avgas
2nd August 2010, 12:45
5 kp in 7 years within 1k professionals, power user.

i'd call it a good record...
Macs have had their issues hardware wise - the same as anywhere else.
The good ol' imac would overheat, I had 4 fail in 1 year. Conclusion was to run an air-conditioned room that did not exceed 19 degrees.
My II would constantly fail on ram, which meant you had to reboot the whole thing.
Macbook pro's would "drop" chips if overheated (sitting in the bag still on).

However I would still recommend Mac's to new users - for the same reason my wife drives an automatic car. I am lazy a like easy solutions.

You may want to read this good little article.
http://www.technightowl.com/2008/05/just-another-mac-hardware-reliability-rant/

Big Dave
2nd August 2010, 12:53
However I would still recommend Mac's to new users - for the same reason my wife drives an automatic car.

The car doesn't recognise self-executable files?

NighthawkNZ
2nd August 2010, 13:29
Did you look at some of those 3D models - how do you reckon it would deal?

It's all 1's and 0's to me... :innocent:

WGoi1MSGu64

avgas
2nd August 2010, 14:15
The car doesn't recognise self-executable files?
Nah she just likes shiny things and doesn't care if its not powerful :shifty:

Gremlin
2nd August 2010, 15:19
The car doesn't recognise self-executable files?
I sure hope you didn't try filling the computer with petrol :mellow:

jafar
2nd August 2010, 15:35
I had a pc with a defective motherboard a few years ago, replaced the motherboard & tried to run it on windows, it just didn't want to know so I sought out a mate who knows a bit about computers & we installed Mandrake Linux. The Linux system works just fine & is still in use today (8 years later). I use it to power a wireless LAN setup & for use as a desktop pc. I have most things I need on it & it shows no sign of any issues @ all. Anti virus software isn't required either as virus's are usually made to run in Windows, not Linux.
The Linux machine will power up faster than all but the latest Windows toys I have had & has never crashed or become slow either.
Not bad considering how it started out, I was given the machine as junk.

Urano
3rd August 2010, 00:44
I had a processor fail on a G5 too. Died just before its fifth birthday. It was good for about 20 crashes on the total.

ya, sure...
but don't now confuse a fucked hardware with an os instability.
if your cpu is gone there is no os at all that could ever work just fine.

my previous post was exactly to point out that of all the (rare) cases of system crash i've heard about, there was often involved an hardware failure, like a bad ram chip or a lighting...
your cpu is another similar.

on the contrary, your kernel panic experience is interesting and "something that matters" right because you said it was generated by a hard task request to the mac, without the hardware being involved.

if your cat pours coke and aspirin on the motherboard i'm going to think that the os is not so guilty... :D :D

avgas
3rd August 2010, 01:02
os instability.
Sorry for asking - but what do you count as unstable OS?
- Freezing?
- Error messages where all you can do is press an 'OK'?
- Random crashing?

As I have had these with every system - Admitably the Mac was the best at hiding it. But I swear I just about threw an imac out the window for "quacking" at me losing my photochop for the day.....for the third time in a row.

But then again I am very good a breaking things.

Pixie
4th August 2010, 07:14
Download and read these:

http://ubuntu-manual.org/

http://www.ubuntupocketguide.com/download_main.html

Other info:

http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/index

Pixie
4th August 2010, 07:17
Iīm not sure when anyone here tried the latest release of Ubuntu but it isnīt just for specialists anymore, once drivers are loaded the average user will never need to open a command line window for everyday use.

I'm using 10.04 now and agree totally.

Mom;order a free cd from here:

https://shipit.ubuntu.com/

It will arrive in about three weeks.You can initially run off the cd without installing anything on your hard drive.Then ,if you choose you can use WUBI to install Ubuntu as a large file within Windows.This is easy to uninstall if you decide you hate it.
After that you can create a dual boot system with Windows and Ubuntu and like me never use Windows again.
I'm not a geek so it can't be too difficult.

The screenshot below shows the application that you get most of the thousands of free software Apps through.never have to go searching for free software on the net again.
214925

As a final comment,the posters suggesting you go to the trouble of setting up a virtual machine to run Linux,obviously have no idea about the options available to try Ubuntu that are far simpler than doing that.

Forest
4th August 2010, 10:17
Sorry for asking - but what do you count as unstable OS?
- Freezing?
- Error messages where all you can do is press an 'OK'?
- Random crashing?

As I have had these with every system - Admitably the Mac was the best at hiding it. But I swear I just about threw an imac out the window for "quacking" at me losing my photochop for the day.....for the third time in a row.

Were you using Adobe Photoshop at the time?

In the last few years, Adobe has concentrated their application development resources onto the PC side of their business. The Mac versions of their professional apps are, quite frankly, riddled with bugs.

Don't judge the stability of the Mac by the stability of Adobe apps.

Big Dave
4th August 2010, 10:27
Were you using Adobe Photoshop at the time?

In the last few years, Adobe has concentrated their application development resources onto the PC side of their business. The Mac versions of their professional apps are, quite frankly, riddled with bugs.

.

None evident on my systems.
I did jump from CS2 to CS5 but all's sweet. inDesign even quits properly.
My versions of Photoshop have always been rock solid too.

The only bug I have at the moment is that Flash files sometimes make the cursor disappear (Why Job's knickers were twisted) and that Dreamweaver will crash if you go too fast with undo's on the CSS files.

Forest
4th August 2010, 10:41
None evident on my systems.
I did jump from CS2 to CS5 but all's sweet. inDesign even quits properly.
My versions of Photoshop have always been rock solid too.

The only bug I have at the moment is that Flash files sometimes make the cursor disappear (Why Job's knickers were twisted) and that Dreamweaver will crash if you go too fast with undo's on the CSS files.

"Riddled" may be too strong a word. But there's some really annoying bugs that shouldn't have made it past Adobe's QA team. :mad:

I expect that it depends on the workflow that's in use.

avgas
4th August 2010, 10:51
Were you using Adobe Photoshop at the time?
Don't judge the stability of the Mac by the stability of Adobe apps.
Actually had more issues with Safari and plugging almost anything into a mac.
I had horrible problems with Adobe stuff on the ol' imac's which was bizzare as it was at the time as this was when photochopping was best done on a mac.
Don't get me wrong I still believe that Apple make great stuff, and I will still recommend them to all my friends who are learning computers or don't need a windows pc, just simply saying to say they are bulletproof is like sticking your fingers in your ears and singing "La la la I cant hear you".
Something the dedicated mac fan boys do all too well.

NighthawkNZ
4th August 2010, 10:57
Don't judge the stability of the Mac by the stability of Adobe apps.

Same can be said for the PC... agreed... If the software application like 'Photoshop' or what ever is unstable or buggy or a file gets corupt... it can bring down the OS, and people will blame the OS first over blaming the actual app that is the cause of the crash...

Rememebr running a PC on linux, windows, BeOS, UniX, or even runing the MacOS on a PC (http://oreilly.com/windows/archive/PearPC.html) (though technically it is on an emulation of the OS) or what ever OS the PC is running it is still a PC... Mac hardware has been made for Mac and gets overviewed by Mac before it gets its seal of approval... PC's every hardware manufacture can make and then they make a driver... *stable or not... conflicks with something else or not... compatitable or not... they don't care*

the driver you install for you new hardware device could easily cause a crash of the OS even when you are not using the device... people instantly blame the OS...

Since the days of Windows NT windows has been pretty stable... however the Win3x and Win9x family was only a GUI over DOS and the the problems casued the conversion of the binary code to from GUI (Windows), to DOS (the OS or kernel) to the binary the PC and then back for the feed back... since NT, Win2000, XP, Vista, Win7 this no longer happens... the the GUI is part of the OS and talks direct to the PC (technically speaking)

This caused all those blue screens of death that you don't see as often now... the DLL error which was the Dynamic Library file of instructions on what to convert to another language etc...

Now days you its the other way round you emulate DOS... hense why some older DOS apps struggle on a full windows system... where as in Win3x and Win9x you were in DOS

I remember my friend when Win95 first arrived on the scene he said I am not putting that on my computer... the way he described it was it was held together with paper clips, blue tac and chewing and a lot of luck and coffee... (he has only just upgraded to XP... been using straight DOS since) :gob: then again hes a geek...

History lesson over... :mellow:


:blink::blink::blink::shifty::mellow:

Big Dave
4th August 2010, 11:46
Agree with Safari being buggiest.

I'm often using chrome as first choice over firefox too. seems slicker.

NighthawkNZ
4th August 2010, 11:57
I'm often using chrome as first choice over firefox too. seems slicker.

Haven't tried chrome yet... must get around to having a looksee... :innocent:

scracha
5th August 2010, 15:09
MacOS on a PC (http://oreilly.com/windows/archive/PearPC.html) (though technically it is on an emulation of the OS) or what ever OS the
Kalyway sir?

SMOKEU
7th August 2010, 11:31
I've been using Windows 7 Ultimate for the past couple of days now and I'm not happy.
It's just as unstable as Windows XP Pro. If I didn't play games I'd be glad to see the back of Microsoft shit and stick with Ubuntu.

caesius
7th August 2010, 19:37
I've used FreeBSD for quite a few years now.

I've always had Windows XP installed in a VM because I needed two pieces of Windows software, MATLAB and Altium Designer.

But now I've found replacements,

GNU Octave <-> MATLAB
Eagle/KiCad <-> Altium Designer

So yeah, don't really need Windows for anything now.. :cool:

Hawk
15th August 2010, 14:54
Hi Mom,
Apple Mac is getting pretty popular now; they have the best graphic, video and audio editing software available as "exclusive titles", things like "Final Cut Pro" will only work on Apple Macs. Creative (content creators) people love them because of this. They make good-looking laptops and are also pretty easy to use. What they do suffer from is a lack of breadth of software available. For example, only recently are games being released that work on Macs.

Ill start with my favorite quote from an a popular NZ PC mag " Linux the cure for the Microsoft boot sector virus".:shutup:

Grasshopper ever got behind the GUI on the latest Macs, Yep its bacily Linux, Security, CLI ( BASH) even down to directory structure its all linux based you can even run linux scripts.

I have no particular perferance as I work with Windows, MAC and Linux platforms, client and server enviroment. My advice sit down make a list of your requirements then trott off to the pc shop and find the software that best satisfies those needs.

Remember not all application/OS software needs to cost you There are many open source applications that do the same thing or sometimes better than Microsoft Apps, ever been to portable apps site, google "portable apps".
There is only one piece of software I would recommend and that is Microsoft Security Essentials ( anti virus) and in my opinion its the best bit of software they have released and the price is within anyone's budget, free.
I will admit Gammers are left out in the cold when using Linux but there are work rounds for this and that keeps people like me employed

SMOKEU
15th August 2010, 15:13
Remember not all application/OS software needs to cost you

They're called 'torrents'.

Suntoucher
15th August 2010, 15:20
From my point of view, I see it most clearly as:

A) Anyone can use Linux, Windows and Mac OSX regardless of skill.
B) All three are easy and simple to use, whilst having more advanced stuff for the more tech heavy. Anyone can get started off the bat just as quickly on all three.
C) All three crash, regardless of what you say, although I will claim Linux crashes less.
D) Windows has more virii and malware. Plain and simple, but that's a market share thing, rather than a software thing.
E) All three are insecure, can be hacked and have virii. Although Windows has more of the latter.

I use Windows exclusively and won't touch the others because:
A) Far greater driver support
B) Far greater market share(almost all), usually I wouldn't care about this, but in the case of a platform it means.
C) Far greater software support.
D) I can go to any shop, build my own computer with specs of my choosing using off the shelf components, install Windows 7 and straight away all the drivers are up and working(albeit I update to the latest GPU drivers)

To me, the convenience of driver and software support is worth the risk of virii and malware because with all the added security features these days it's actually the most secure OS, it's just the most targeted at the same time and I have yet to pick something up myself(I don't visit dodgy websites and download dodgy stuff).

Almost any software you'll find is made for Windows, and it's effortless finding any software to do exactly what I want it to do, install without fuss and work as it is supposed to.

Windows: It just works.

Brian d marge
15th August 2010, 22:15
From my point of view, I see it most clearly as:

A) Anyone can use Linux, Windows and Mac OSX regardless of skill.
B) All three are easy and simple to use, whilst having more advanced stuff for the more tech heavy. Anyone can get started off the bat just as quickly on all three.
C) All three crash, regardless of what you say, although I will claim Linux crashes less.
D) Windows has more virii and malware. Plain and simple, but that's a market share thing, rather than a software thing.
E) All three are insecure, can be hacked and have virii. Although Windows has more of the latter.

I use Windows exclusively and won't touch the others because:
A) Far greater driver support
B) Far greater market share(almost all), usually I wouldn't care about this, but in the case of a platform it means.
C) Far greater software support.
D) I can go to any shop, build my own computer with specs of my choosing using off the shelf components, install Windows 7 and straight away all the drivers are up and working(albeit I update to the latest GPU drivers)

To me, the convenience of driver and software support is worth the risk of virii and malware because with all the added security features these days it's actually the most secure OS, it's just the most targeted at the same time and I have yet to pick something up myself(I don't visit dodgy websites and download dodgy stuff).

Almost any software you'll find is made for Windows, and it's effortless finding any software to do exactly what I want it to do, install without fuss and work as it is supposed to.

Windows: It just works.

So it should the price you pay for it

I just left mouse click , install and it just works , cost? Zero , Nadia , and in 7 years of the alternative , not a virus yet , 3 or four junk mail in my gmail account :shit:

Stephen

ac3_snow
15th August 2010, 22:18
+1 for mac!

SMOKEU
15th August 2010, 22:20
Windows: It just works.

Except for the almost daily BSOD and random restarts several times per day, none of which happen with Ubuntu on the same hardware.

Suntoucher
15th August 2010, 23:05
So it should the price you pay for it

I just left mouse click , install and it just works , cost? Zero , Nadia , and in 7 years of the alternative , not a virus yet , 3 or four junk mail in my gmail account :shit:

Stephen

Hah, only scrubs pay for Windows, MSDN and MSDNAA supremacy. Speaking of which I have a few spare copies of Windows 7 Pro.
How long did it take to set it up once it was installed? Including drivers for everything, WINE and installing the basic software that you use on a daily basis etc.

Installation of an OS isn't only the time it takes to put it from disc onto your hard drive, else people wouldn't think twice about formatting.


Except for the almost daily BSOD and random restarts several times per day, none of which happen with Ubuntu on the same hardware.

What is this? 1999? Last I had of either was Windows ME.

You can't use the same arguments AFTER they're a non-issue.
Else I'll accuse Linux of not having a GUI and still being keyboard only, and running next to no software. WINE hasn't been around forever.

Anyway, it doesn't happen to Ubuntu because it doesn't run the hardware in the first place. Linux still has daily issues with getting Wireless running and GPU drivers for all manufacturers.

Then on top of that you either have to run Linux native software, which is next to none and garbage, or WINE it which is usually hit and miss.

Bald Eagle
15th August 2010, 23:12
What is this? 1999? Last I had of either was Windows ME.

You can't use the same arguments AFTER they're a non-issue.
Else I'll accuse Linux of not having a GUI and still being keyboard only.

Anyway, it doesn't happen to Ubuntu because it doesn't run the hardware in the first place. Linux still has daily issues with getting Wireless running and GPU drivers for all manufacturers.

Then on top of that you either have to run Linux native software, which is next to none and garbage, or WINE it which is usually hit and miss.

Open your other eye and I can show you BSOD's on every version of windows up until Windows 7. Not sure about Windows 7 'cos I'm not wasting my time with it.

Suntoucher
15th August 2010, 23:15
Open your other eye and I can show you BSOD's on every version of windows up until Windows 7.

Alright, show me multiple computers after Windows ME that have daily BSODs that are software errors. I'll go downstairs and see if I can get the Windows Vista computer to BSOD daily, will also try my XP laptop, or my step mothers Windows 7 laptop.

Might pop into school(AUT) and try all of their laptops, as well as any of my friends. See if any of them have daily BSODs.

But yeah, show me. I never said they can't happen, it's just a very rare case to have daily BSOD's and if someone is getting them they're an idiot. Because they either have a hardware fault or need to just reinstall a driver. The former would be a problem on ANY OS, the latter is a ten second fix, two minutes if you don't have the driver on hand.


Not sure about Windows 7 'cos I'm not wasting my time with it.

So you're making baseless accusations?

Actually serious though, would like to see you pick up any Windows computer and make it daily BSOD. Hell, make it BSOD at all unless you've prepped it first and manually corrupted the drivers. I'm free up til class on weekdays, could try and make mine BSOD if you like.

Extra points if you can make it crash or BSOD doing something Linux software can do.

SMOKEU
15th August 2010, 23:36
Anyway, it doesn't happen to Ubuntu because it doesn't run the hardware in the first place. Linux still has daily issues with getting Wireless running and GPU drivers for all manufacturers.

Then on top of that you either have to run Linux native software, which is next to none and garbage, or WINE it which is usually hit and miss.

As far as wireless networking goes, I had enough problems using it with Windows XP that I gave up on the idea of a wireless network. I decided to run a network cable through the attic and drill a few holes in the ceiling. I've never had a single networking issue since.

I can run all the software I need on Ubuntu, except for games. If I didn't play games, I'd happily see the back of Microsoft forever.

I connected some webcams and a printer up to my computer while running Ubuntu, and the hardware works perfectly well without having to manually install any drivers for it.

Suntoucher
15th August 2010, 23:43
As far as wireless networking goes, I had enough problems using it with Windows XP that I gave up on the idea of a wireless network. I decided to run a network cable through the attic and drill a few holes in the ceiling. I've never had a single networking issue since.

I can run all the software I need on Ubuntu, except for games. If I didn't play games, I'd happily see the back of Microsoft forever.

I connected some webcams and a printer up to my computer while running Ubuntu, and the hardware works perfectly well without having to manually install any drivers for it.

That's also part of the problem, you're comparing the latest Ubuntu to XP, a 9 year old OS. Compare it to Windows 7, because if someones trying to decide between buying Windows, or downloading Linux, why would they buy XP?

Hell you may as well say you couldn't find drivers for Windows 3.1.

Compare 9 year old Ubuntu(didn't exist, Ubuntu first came out in 2004, could at least compare Ubuntu 4) to Windows XP.

Or compare the latest Ubuntu to Windows 7.

Brian d marge
16th August 2010, 01:21
Hah, only scrubs pay for Windows, MSDN and MSDNAA supremacy. Speaking of which I have a few spare copies of Windows 7 Pro.
How long did it take to set it up once it was installed? Including drivers for everything, WINE and installing the basic software that you use on a daily basis etc.

Installation of an OS isn't only the time it takes to put it from disc onto your hard drive, else people wouldn't think twice about formatting.



What is this? 1999? Last I had of either was Windows ME.

You can't use the same arguments AFTER they're a non-issue.
Else I'll accuse Linux of not having a GUI and still being keyboard only, and running next to no software. WINE hasn't been around forever.

Anyway, it doesn't happen to Ubuntu because it doesn't run the hardware in the first place. Linux still has daily issues with getting Wireless running and GPU drivers for all manufacturers.

Then on top of that you either have to run Linux native software, which is next to none and garbage, or WINE it which is usually hit and miss.

gees when was the last time u used Linux , I haven't used wine , well once or twice but basically don't and I have a high end work station for my cad CAE and CFD

As for next to none???? well
As for set up time , twenty min including software ( included ) ,,,wireless all automatic no probs
Stephen

SMOKEU
16th August 2010, 09:39
That's also part of the problem, you're comparing the latest Ubuntu to XP, a 9 year old OS. Compare it to Windows 7, because if someones trying to decide between buying Windows, or downloading Linux, why would they buy XP?

Hell you may as well say you couldn't find drivers for Windows 3.1.

Compare 9 year old Ubuntu(didn't exist, Ubuntu first came out in 2004, could at least compare Ubuntu 4) to Windows XP.

Or compare the latest Ubuntu to Windows 7.

When comparing XP to 7, I've found XP is more stable.

When comparing 7 to Ubuntu 10.04, Ubuntu is still much more stable.

Suntoucher
16th August 2010, 10:37
When comparing XP to 7, I've found XP is more stable.

When comparing 7 to Ubuntu 10.04, Ubuntu is still much more stable.

What version of Windows 7 were you running?

But anyway, you were going to show me how Windows is consistently unstable. Like I said, you can try any of the computers in my household. Or come into AUT, the library has bloated, crap filled Windows XP installed, if you could make anything BSOD it would be them.


gees when was the last time u used Linux , I haven't used wine , well once or twice but basically don't and I have a high end work station for my cad CAE and CFD

As for next to none???? well
As for set up time , twenty min including software ( included ) ,,,wireless all automatic no probs
Stephen

So you have used WINE?

What operating system do you use on your high end workstation?

Impressive about the install time.

Why don't you use Linux on your high end workstation?

I mean, based on the above it's amazing in comparison to Windows and does everything, so I don't see why you wouldn't use it on all of your computers bar none.

SMOKEU
16th August 2010, 12:25
What version of Windows 7 were you running?



Ultimate X64.

Over the years I've used Windows 95, 98, 2000, ME, XP and recently I've started using 7.
All of those Windows OSs have been very disappointing in comparison to the reliability of Ubuntu.
Don't blame my hardware either.

Suntoucher
16th August 2010, 12:38
Ultimate X64.

Over the years I've used Windows 95, 98, 2000, ME, XP and recently I've started using 7.
All of those Windows OSs have been very disappointing in comparison to the reliability of Ubuntu.
Don't blame my hardware either.

Did you purchase or download it?

Why aren't you using Linux in which case?

But yeah, you said you'd show me how Windows(the OS, not a single computer) BSODs daily, but you seem to be ignoring that now that I've actually said yes, show me.

And I would never blame hardware, was running Win 7 Pro on my old laptop, HP NC6220. Pentium M 740, 512mb of DDR2 533, GMA915. So hardware wouldn't be an issue unless it's faulty.

SMOKEU
16th August 2010, 12:42
Did you purchase or download it?

Why aren't you using Linux in which case?

But yeah, you said you'd show me how Windows(the OS, not a single computer) BSODs daily, but you seem to be ignoring that now that I've actually said yes, show me.

Some versions I have used are bought legit, some are downloaded. I have not found any difference in stability between a good downloaded version and a genuine store bought copy.

I am using Ubuntu, but since I can't play all the games I want on Ubuntu I'm forced to use Windows as well.

My question is, that if an open source OS can be this good, why can't Microsoft at least match the stability of Ubuntu?

I didn't say I experience the BSOD daily, I'm saying that my computer randomly restarts itself several times per day, and it's not a hardware issue. How do you want me to show you?

Pixie
16th August 2010, 12:48
From my point of view, I see it most clearly as:

A) Anyone can use Linux, Windows and Mac OSX regardless of skill.
B) All three are easy and simple to use, whilst having more advanced stuff for the more tech heavy. Anyone can get started off the bat just as quickly on all three.
C) All three crash, regardless of what you say, although I will claim Linux crashes less.
D) Windows has more virii and malware. Plain and simple, but that's a market share thing, rather than a software thing.
E) All three are insecure, can be hacked and have virii. Although Windows has more of the latter.

I use Windows exclusively and won't touch the others because:
A) Far greater driver support
B) Far greater market share(almost all), usually I wouldn't care about this, but in the case of a platform it means.
C) Far greater software support.
D) I can go to any shop, build my own computer with specs of my choosing using off the shelf components, install Windows 7 and straight away all the drivers are up and working(albeit I update to the latest GPU drivers)

To me, the convenience of driver and software support is worth the risk of virii and malware because with all the added security features these days it's actually the most secure OS, it's just the most targeted at the same time and I have yet to pick something up myself(I don't visit dodgy websites and download dodgy stuff).

Almost any software you'll find is made for Windows, and it's effortless finding any software to do exactly what I want it to do, install without fuss and work as it is supposed to.

Windows: It just works.

Thanks for the headsup,Bill,
btw I love the way you give half of those obscene profits to charity

Gremlin
16th August 2010, 12:48
I'm saying that my computer randomly restarts itself several times per day, and it's not a hardware issue.
Computer (right click) > Properties > Advanced system settings > Advanced tab
Startup and Recovery: Settings > unclick Automatically restart

You'll disable automatic restart for BSOD etc, and hence able to see the BSOD, which is actually very useful, then you can trouble shoot the problem.

Other issues with restarts, some motherboards needed a BIOS update (restarted on the hour every hour), PSU, etc.

Suntoucher
16th August 2010, 12:48
Some versions I have used are bought legit, some are downloaded. I have not found any difference in stability between a good downloaded version and a genuine store bought copy.

I am using Ubuntu, but since I can't play all the games I want on Ubuntu I'm forced to use Windows as well.

My question is, that if an open source OS can be this good, why can't Microsoft at least match the stability of Ubuntu?

I didn't say I experience the BSOD daily, I'm saying that my computer randomly restarts itself several times per day, and it's not a hardware issue. How do you want me to show you?

So it was a pirated copy of Windows 7, wasn't it. I've seen huge jumps in stability difference as I was using a cracked version as well, until I got an MSDN account and now run legit Win 7 Ultimate.

Yeah, you did.

Except for the almost daily BSOD and random restarts several times per day, none of which happen with Ubuntu on the same hardware.

Like I said, AUT is available with plenty of computers with public access. All running XP with crap hardware and ridiculous bloat as it needs to support every student's needs, so it should be extra easy.

You're not FORCED to use Windows, you choose to use it because it offers you something Linux doesn't.

Well it technically does now(Steam now has Linux support) but it plays terribly because of the Linux drivers. Much like it also does on Mac.

If Open Source is that good, why doesn't it have 94% market share?

Brian d marge
16th August 2010, 12:51
Why don't you use Linux on your high end workstation?

I mean, based on the above it's amazing in comparison to Windows and does everything, so I don't see why you wouldn't use it on all of your computers bar none.
Sorry for the want of a comma my meaning was lost
I do use Linux , on my workstation , Calculix , Open Foam, Varicad , and Blender
I used wine to look at a packet shaping software which was and exe file .

but its not my money , so I dont care , try using Catia , or or any of the other commercial software's and see how much the licence is
beyond my pocket I can tell you .

all good here , carry on

Stephen

SMOKEU
16th August 2010, 13:04
If Open Source is that good, why doesn't it have 94% market share?

It's because retailers can't really make money off selling open source software. These days, every cunt is trying to rip every other cunt off, so retailers can make a fair bit of a mark up when selling software.
Most people also don't really know anything about Linux because they've never used it before, so given the option the majority of people will choose Windows over Linux because that's what they've been using for the past 15 years and they don't know any different.

Suntoucher
16th August 2010, 13:05
Sorry for the want of a comma my meaning was lost
I do use Linux , on my workstation , Calculix , Open Foam, Varicad , and Blender
I used wine to look at a packet shaping software which was and exe file .

but its not my money , so I dont care , try using Catia , or or any of the other commercial software's and see how much the licence is
beyond my pocket I can tell you .

all good here , carry on

Stephen

Fair enough, I'd have to say you're actually the first person I've met to have multiple computers, run Linux on all of them and have nothing to do with anything Windows, including Windows software.

Good work, competition is what the world needs because in the end the consumers win. Lack of competition drives up prices and hurts innovation.


It's because retailers can't really make money off selling open source software. These days, every cunt is trying to rip every other cunt off, so retailers can make a fair bit of a mark up when selling software.
Most people also don't really know anything about Linux because they've never used it before, so given the option the majority of people will choose Windows over Linux because that's what they've been using for the past 15 years and they don't know any different.

It's irrelevant on whether the operating system is Open Source or not.

Every Dick Smith sells Ubuntu distros for $5 each, so they're definitely out in the shops. And retailers make a lot more off the software itself rather than the Operating System, developers just don't make software for Linux like they do Windows. If there was an MS Office for Linux, I can bet you it would sell(get pirated) quite well per capita(just terribly in profits compared to Windows and Mac OSX because you guys have 1% market share).

Microsoft Office is the major Office suite available, and it's expensive as anything. Open Office gets quite a bit of publicity and word of mouth, but everything falls back of to Microsoft even though OOO is free. I personally used it and found it comparatively abominable.

Given the option, people will choose free over paid unless it offers value for money. Dell offers Linux computers yet people still choose Windows. So it can't be claimed that OEMs don't put Linux on shop computers.

Heh, gave you a method of showing me how Windows BSODs daily(or even at all, taking a regular computer and making it BSOD once) and you're back to ignoring your claim.

Care to address my other points? Or just the one you think can find fault with.

NighthawkNZ
16th August 2010, 13:16
Computers suck...

Suntoucher
16th August 2010, 13:23
Computers suck...

Empty quote

Edit: This minimum 10 chars sucks.

NighthawkNZ
16th August 2010, 13:32
Microsoft Office is the major Office suite available, and it's expensive as anything. Open Office gets quite a bit of publicity and word of mouth, but everything falls back of to Microsoft even though OOO is free. I personally used it and found it comparatively abominable.

Well the main reason MS Office wins here is marketing, and that because most people already have it and have been using it thaey don't want to change... Even though OOo is compatible but only for the basic as soon as you start putting in the heavy macros and stuff... then OOo hasn't a show of being compatible until MS opens its file format fully... and the chances of that happening are slighty less than zero...

Those that start of in OOo have a better probably will never go to MS Office... I use MS office at work and OOo at home


Given the option, people will choose free over paid unless it offers value for money. Dell offers Linux computers yet people still choose Windows. So it can't be claimed that OEMs don't put Linux on shop computers.

See above people can't be bothered learning another system and way of doing things been using Windoze for 15 years why change... most people look at the short term its actually going to cost a business to change in time and training of the new OS and system... but don't look in the long run that they will save...

Many EU countries bit the dust a few years back and swithed to Linux while short term it cost in th elong run they are now saving money.

Has nothing to do with how good or bad the OS or software is at present it has to do with what people are use to using... and that is slowly changing... my boss now uses OOo at home and said will probably slowly switch all to OOo at work... as it will meet our needs... so attitudes and people opening up for a bit of a change is slowly happening (when I first started here would have been no chance of that... :blink:)


Empty quote

Edit: This minimum 10 chars sucks.
Wasn't quoting anybody... just stating a fact... ;)

Suntoucher
16th August 2010, 13:38
Well the main reason MS Office wins here is marketing, and that because most people already have it and have been using it thaey don't want to change... Even though OOo is compatible but only for the basic as soon as you start putting in the heavy macros and stuff... then OOo hasn't a show of being compatible until MS opens its file format fully... and the chances of that happening are slighty less than zero...

Those that start of in OOo have a better probably will never go to MS Office... I use MS office at work and OOo at home



See above people can't be bothered learning another system and way of doing things been using Windoze for 15 years why change... most people look at the short term its actually going to cost a business to change in time and training of the new OS and system... but don't look in the long run that they will save...

Many EU countries bit the dust a few years back and swithed to Linux while short term it cost in th elong run they are now saving money.

Has nothing to do with how good or bad the OS or software is at present it has to do with what people are use to using... and that is slowly changing... my boss now uses OOo at home and said will probably slowly switch all to OOo at work... as it will meet our needs... so attitudes and people opening up for a bit of a change is slowly happening (when I first started here would have been no chance of that... :blink:)


Wasn't quoting anybody... just stating a fact... ;)

I was quoting you.

Edit: I just can't empty quote as there is a ten char minimum. So have to write it out.

avgas
16th August 2010, 15:34
When comparing XP to 7, I've found XP is more stable.
When comparing 7 to Ubuntu 10.04, Ubuntu is still much more stable.
10 years of development for both has to count for something.
Remember the XP SP0 days - blue screen of death
Remember the RedHat days - #Killall motherfucker I want to shut down!!!!!

I was just pissed of with MSDN/Microsoft for 7 as I basically concluded when I beta tested it.....that its Vista SP3
So rather than fix problems, Microsoft were just selling marketing at you.

Bald Eagle
16th August 2010, 15:36
That's all Microsoft sell - marketing. They spell software testing s.a.l.e.s. ffs

Max Preload
17th August 2010, 14:52
what pissed me off with apple was being forced to do things their way. ipods as well. Windows, do things your way, and I like pulling it apart. I've recently been looking at changing to MAC but that's one of the things that puts me off too. That, and the fact I don't even own walk shorts or sandals, nor do I have a beard.

Sure, it's ok if you're using it as a home computer, but for a workhorse you just don't want to be rebooting into Windows on a MAC Pro to do any work (almost everything I need to use runs in Windows and I don't want to add another layer of potential failure points by running VMWARE). A couple of weeks ago I was quite keen on switching but the more I think about it the more I believe it just won't work for my situation.

As for Linux, that's arse too for the same reason - applications.

SMOKEU
17th August 2010, 14:56
I've recently been looking at changing to MAC

Macs are gay.

Bald Eagle
17th August 2010, 15:07
(almost everything I need to use runs in Windows .

you need a different job then :rofl:

Gremlin
17th August 2010, 15:15
it is true tho. When you're software either in beta, or just out of it, quite simply, almost anything developed I use is windows based, and I regularly dip into the advanced settings

jonbuoy
17th August 2010, 18:32
Try PLC programming or flashing firmware on a MAC/Linux. Open Office - free but a bit basic, Office 2007 menu system is far better.

Bald Eagle
17th August 2010, 18:34
The end result is this is a Honkawsuzyam thread , each to his/her own.

SMOKEU
17th August 2010, 19:08
Try PLC programming or flashing firmware on a MAC/Linux. Open Office - free but a bit basic, Office 2007 menu system is far better.

I've always hated MS Office, I found the text formatting a nightmare to use in Word. OpenOffice is so much easier to use, and it doesn't keep resetting my formatting.

Urano
18th August 2010, 05:36
You're not FORCED to use Windows, you choose to use it because it offers you something Linux doesn't.

no, actually it doesn't.
nor it does in respect of osx.



Well it technically does now(Steam now has Linux support) but it plays terribly because of the Linux drivers. Much like it also does on Mac.


oh, ya, sure...
if you "choose to use it" on a computer just to play then it makes a lot of sense.
is exactly the same to buy a busa to go make some trial...



If Open Source is that good, why doesn't it have 94% market share?

because microsoft has stolen, corrupted, fooled, and made ANYthing to reach that shitty 94%.
do netscape/explorer bring something to your mind?

Suntoucher
18th August 2010, 12:51
Considering he was saying he was forced to use Windows to play games, yes it does offer something Linux doesn't, games(until recently, but they're very limited). So he wasn't forced to use it, he chose to use it.

Brings something to mind a decade ago, a lot can happen in ten years, look at Apple. Hell, a lot can happen in two years, Intel has the monopoly and it stole, corrupted, fooled and did everything to reach its market share. AMD has done quite a large bounce back in the last two years.

Both created good quality products(albeit I don't like saying that about Apple, I'll still admit it) and as a result their marketshare shot up in the products they focused on.

What's Linux's excuse?

Edit: Linux reminds me of Opera, whining about past events having some irrecoverable effect on their product, when all the competition has moved on, forgot about the past and taken market share from the monopoly, Firefox for example. You don't see Apple complaining about past events, and their market share is growing. Yet Linux(like you above proved) is still crying about ten years ago even when the other competition has proven it isn't irrecoverable. You just have to stop whining and actually work for it, your argument of, "Look what Microsoft did a decade ago." doesn't make me think, "Man, you're right, I'm switching to Linux now."

People will go for the Open Source Alternative when it is the better option, again going back to Firefox.

Brian d marge
18th August 2010, 13:54
Apple . have iphone , Never touching an apple product again EVER

Marketing,,,,,,,,,, , Ms was the best thing around years ago , and apple have an awesome marketing machine

linux has well err not much actually, Red hat is probably the biggest

but Horses for courses , once you get used to Linux and realise what IS possible even with the problems it has ( flash on 64 bit is shocking )

I am amazed how anyone would pay good money for , a hyped up product

iphone , ms , or any of those over hyped underdeveloped products

Stephen

ps installed linux mint on my net book , UNDER 20 min including office , had one small hiccup , drop-box wouldn't play fair , a few min googling , and solved . drives , Wifi , everything all good , even flash

imdying
18th August 2010, 14:20
I've always hated MS Office, I found the text formatting a nightmare to use in Word. OpenOffice is so much easier to use, and it doesn't keep resetting my formatting.Millions of users would disagree with you, so PEBKAC.

Suntoucher
18th August 2010, 14:41
Apple . have iphone , Never touching an apple product again EVER

Marketing,,,,,,,,,, , Ms was the best thing around years ago , and apple have an awesome marketing machine

linux has well err not much actually, Red hat is probably the biggest

but Horses for courses , once you get used to Linux and realise what IS possible even with the problems it has ( flash on 64 bit is shocking )

I am amazed how anyone would pay good money for , a hyped up product

iphone , ms , or any of those over hyped underdeveloped products

Stephen

ps installed linux mint on my net book , UNDER 20 min including office , had one small hiccup , drop-box wouldn't play fair , a few min googling , and solved . drives , Wifi , everything all good , even flash

Alright, if it was free(in my case it is for Windows and well, all Microsoft Products), what would you choose?

SMOKEU
18th August 2010, 15:05
Alright, if it was free(in my case it is for Windows and well, all Microsoft Products), what would you choose?

Since when were Microsoft products not free, in the past few years?

Suntoucher
18th August 2010, 15:09
Since when were Microsoft products not free, in the past few years?

I see what you did there, you're talking about piracy, hahaha, you're so funny.

That was a good one.

Brian d marge
18th August 2010, 15:23
Alright, if it was free(in my case it is for Windows and well, all Microsoft Products), what would you choose?

Exactly what I have now. if I could have a wish list , things like drivers , and Flash ( or the equivalent , to which we all rely on , should be made open source.

Stephen

Max Preload
18th August 2010, 19:02
you need a different job then :rofl:

Not at my charge out rate I don't. :bleh:

Suntoucher
18th August 2010, 22:10
Exactly what I have now. if I could have a wish list , things like drivers , and Flash ( or the equivalent , to which we all rely on , should be made open source.

Stephen

Fair enough, I thought Linux users made their own, open-source drivers?

Then again you can't really blame the companies for not making it open-source. They have zero motivation to do so, especially if it would only please 1% of users and strip their income to nil.

Only real way to fight back is to produce an open-source alternative to that product that people want so you can thieve market share. Or whine about it to the EU, worked for Opera who fell to pieces because of their own hubris. Charging for a browser when everyone else in the formative years gave it away free, then complaining to the EU.

Urano
19th August 2010, 08:21
Apple . have iphone , Never touching an apple product again EVER

agree.
neither i have an iphone, nor i ever suggested it to friends...

actually i don't like it at all, and think ipad has much more sense.
but they've sold 3 million iphones in a month, so if the "94% market share" statement works for windows, why shouldn't it work for the iphone?

next time try a mac: use it one month, then tell me if you'd ever come back...

NighthawkNZ
19th August 2010, 08:59
:yawn: ... :yawn: ... Zzzzzz

SMOKEU
19th August 2010, 09:54
Exactly what I have now. if I could have a wish list , things like drivers , and Flash ( or the equivalent , to which we all rely on , should be made open source.

Stephen

All my hardware except for my TV tuner has Linux drivers available. Video card, webcams, printer etc are all supported by Linux. The best thing is that it downloads the drivers automatically for my hardware. Flash player is available on Ubuntu.

Suntoucher
19th August 2010, 11:06
agree.
neither i have an iphone, nor i ever suggested it to friends...

actually i don't like it at all, and think ipad has much more sense.
but they've sold 3 million iphones in a month, so if the "94% market share" statement works for windows, why shouldn't it work for the iphone?

next time try a mac: use it one month, then tell me if you'd ever come back...

Because the iPhone doesn't have the greatest share of the smartphone market. Good try though.

I grew up around Macs and my uni last year(Natcoll) uses them exclusively. I won't be going back. Macs are garbage.

In fact Android has gone from 3% to 17% in a year, whilst iOS has dropped from 14% to 13% in that same period.
http://www.asymco.com/2010/08/02/android-global-share-rises-to-16-of-smartphones-in-q1/

Brian d marge
19th August 2010, 13:11
All my hardware except for my TV tuner has Linux drivers available. Video card, webcams, printer etc are all supported by Linux. The best thing is that it downloads the drivers automatically for my hardware. Flash player is available on Ubuntu.
for the 32 bit , but the 64 bit system which I use , isnt supported by adobe , i can get it to work but its isnt very flash ( pun intended)

32 bit works a treat

Stephen

Suntoucher
19th August 2010, 13:50
There's a 64 bit Flash Player for Linux released, pretty sure it's still in Beta so you may have to search for it, but it's there. You guys are the guinea pigs before Windows and Mac get the finished release.

Max Preload
19th August 2010, 15:12
The best thing is that it downloads the drivers automatically for my hardware.That's no drawcard for me. I don't update unless there is a specific issue I have that needs addressing. Too many times an update has meant more problems created than it's fixed.

Brian d marge
20th August 2010, 01:47
There's a 64 bit Flash Player for Linux released, pretty sure it's still in Beta so you may have to search for it, but it's there. You guys are the guinea pigs before Windows and Mac get the finished release.
yes it beta
it sota works , but full screen and some web site, refuse to play ball ( they tend to be the naughty ones)

On saying this , the beta of CAELinux has been released , I can feel a fresh install coming

it really wont change my system , but well its new , and i get to play

Stephen

YellowDog
20th August 2010, 05:00
That's no drawcard for me. I don't update unless there is a specific issue I have that needs addressing. Too many times an update has meant more problems created than it's fixed.

If you want to make a Microsoft environment unusable, just leave on automatic updates!

Suntoucher
20th August 2010, 11:31
*has had automatic updates left on for the past six years(the three years prior were pirated copies of XP)*

Drunken Monkey
20th August 2010, 11:38
I see what you did there, you're talking about piracy, hahaha, you're so funny.

That was a good one.

Considering you can't buy a name brand machine without an OS these days, the OEM is practically free (yes I know, it's just built into the cost, but most times you can't option out). Whilst office is still expensive, there are a lot of free MS products, just check their website.

On top of this there are a myriad of alternative licensing solutions which are considerably cheaper than retail/boxed product, granted some licensing structures are corporate only, but there are plenty of other packages anyone can sign up to if they do the leg work. I subscribed myself to MAP (microsoft action pack), I get 10 licenses of office enterprise, windows 7 ultimate, server, sql, etc... for NZ $450. That's less than the price of 1 office pro in a retail pack.

Brian d marge
20th August 2010, 13:44
Considering you can't buy a name brand machine without an OS these days, the OEM is practically free (yes I know, it's just built into the cost, but most times you can't option out). Whilst office is still expensive, there are a lot of free MS products, just check their website.

On top of this there are a myriad of alternative licensing solutions which are considerably cheaper than retail/boxed product, granted some licensing structures are corporate only, but there are plenty of other packages anyone can sign up to if they do the leg work. I subscribed myself to MAP (microsoft action pack), I get 10 licenses of office enterprise, windows 7 ultimate, server, sql, etc... for NZ $450. That's less than the price of 1 office pro in a retail pack.woa 450 dollars , that's a set of tyres
but ur right about trying to buy a computer without an OS
try it sometime , buying drugs is easier, The net-book I have , MSI wind came with XP ,, of course I dont want it and said so ,,,

big meeting with other sales staff, came back and said but you need xp to make it work
no, says I

but it wont work without Xp says they

oh and i dont want to pay for Xp says I
but you must says they

last seen buying computer ( it was cheap ) and sales staff running out into the car park to inform me the warranty would be void

ho hmm

Stephen

No I cant be bothered trying to claim the xp refund ,

avgas
20th August 2010, 14:12
How come everything isn't 64 bit yet.......fucking annoying.
I just had to roll back to 32 bit on a work server.

Suntoucher
20th August 2010, 15:21
woa 450 dollars , that's a set of tyres
but ur right about trying to buy a computer without an OS
try it sometime , buying drugs is easier, The net-book I have , MSI wind came with XP ,, of course I dont want it and said so ,,,

big meeting with other sales staff, came back and said but you need xp to make it work
no, says I

but it wont work without Xp says they

oh and i dont want to pay for Xp says I
but you must says they

last seen buying computer ( it was cheap ) and sales staff running out into the car park to inform me the warranty would be void

ho hmm

Stephen

No I cant be bothered trying to claim the xp refund ,

I put them together myself, thus none of my computers have come with an OS.

Regarding the 64 bit above. Windows x64 emulates 32 bit programs, so they should ALL still work. It just doesn't run 16 bit programs and 32 bit drivers.

Unfortunately some 32 bit only programs have 16 bit installers...

Scuba_Steve
20th August 2010, 15:29
I put them together myself, thus none of my computers have come with an OS.

Regarding the 64 bit above. Windows x64 emulates 32 bit programs, so they should ALL still work. It just doesn't run 16 bit programs and 32 bit drivers.

Unfortunately some 32 bit only programs have 16 bit installers...

watch that! because its emulated, as you said it wont run 32bit drivers. But it also won't run any app that relies on 32bit drivers to work. So theres quite a few less than "ALL" that actually do work. But yes alot of Apps still will work in emulated mode.

avgas
20th August 2010, 15:51
watch that! because its emulated, as you said it wont run 32bit drivers. But it also won't run any app that relies on 32bit drivers to work. So theres quite a few less than "ALL" that actually do work. But yes alot of Apps still will work in emulated mode.
Yeah ya beat me too it.
Had to down grade as SCADA is a temperamental SOB at the best of times. But also due to a few config programs also required on it, use their custom code.......rather than old school API's.
Basically I don't see being able to run SCADA/Base station PC's in 64 bit till at-least 2013. But at least now we are looking at 7 rather than XP. Some guys are running on Linux (and I have had a bit of a play)......but its a good 5 or so years until a 'unified' distro is SCADA friendly.

I got rid of my last adobe product today (acrobat reader).......I was so happy. It has been replaced with pdf xchange viewer as you can edit the pdf with this software.

SMOKEU
20th August 2010, 16:25
I don't see the point in buying a brand name desktop anyway, they usually seem to have a rather poor case design. It's better to just build one yourself, or go to a small computer shop and buy a no name brand one from there. Then you don't have to buy the OS with it.

Brian d marge
21st August 2010, 01:38
CFD, ( open foam ) , ties my desktop up for well over a day ( i leave it running over night , but I dont like that )

I note the local computer shop has large sticks or Ram , 6 gig each or something like that , quite cheap , now as I run 64 bit , it should see the full ram , but then I wonder what the choke will be further down the line , Quad cores are cheap ,,,,,,,:yes:

new OS looming ( because its free take a few mins and I'm bored ) Sooo we need a new Computer

that's it , that's Monday sorted ....... water cooled ,,,,,,,why not

Stephen

ps what did you do to remove adobe flash??? Gnash?? no pron???/

Gremlin
21st August 2010, 01:53
I note the local computer shop has large sticks or Ram , 6 gig each or something like that , quite cheap , now as I run 64 bit , it should see the full ram
You'll most likely need a server board for that memory, unusual to see desktop board memory over 2GB, but I think it can be ordered in (well, here in little backwater NZ). Desktop boards with 2GB sticks is a bit pot luck coupled with age, some boards are more sensitive than others.

The big issue with massive quantites of memory (ie, not 12, more like 100GB) is the errors.

Brian d marge
21st August 2010, 03:49
You'll most likely need a server board for that memory, unusual to see desktop board memory over 2GB, but I think it can be ordered in (well, here in little backwater NZ). Desktop boards with 2GB sticks is a bit pot luck coupled with age, some boards are more sensitive than others.

The big issue with massive quantites of memory (ie, not 12, more like 100GB) is the errors.

I have 2 sticks of 4 in at the moment
oh that worked well , but this is what I has Like motorcycles , ya cant beat cubes , ,,,shopping on monday is looking and option

:shutup:
Stephen

Hardware Information
Motherboard name:
DG35EC
Motherboard vendor:
Intel Corporation
BIOS vendor:
Intel Corp.
BIOS version:
ECG3510M.86A.0106.2008.0730.1746
BIOS release date:
07/30/2008
CPU 1 name:
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 6600 @ 2.40GHz
CPU 1 level 1 cache size:
32K Data cache. 32K Instruction cache.
CPU 1 level 2 cache size:
4096K Unified cache.
CPU 1 Mips:
4775.99
CPU 2 name:
Intel(R) Core(TM)2 CPU 6600 @ 2.40GHz
CPU 2 level 1 cache size:
32K Data cache. 32K Instruction cache.
CPU 2 level 2 cache size:
4096K Unified cache.
CPU 2 Mips:
4884.81
64 bit CPU?
Yes!
Total memory:
7.8 GB
Total swap:
24001 MBytes
Ethernet card:
Intel Corporation 82566DC Gigabit Network Connection (rev 02)
Linux Information
Host name:
s-desktop
Current user:
caelinux (UID: 1000, GID: 1000)
Uptime:
2 hours 29 minutes
Kernel version:
2.6.32-24-generic
Kernel arch:
x86_64
X server version:
X.Org X Server 1.7.6
OpenGL direct rendering:
Yes
OpenGL vendor:
NVIDIA Corporation
OpenGL renderer:
GeForce 7600 GT/PCI/SSE2
OpenGL version:
2.1.2 NVIDIA 195.36.24
GCC version:
4.4.3
Java version:
1.6.0_20
Python version:
2.6.5
GTK version:
2.20.1
PyGTK version:
2.17.0
Firefox version:
Mozilla Firefox 3.6.8
Ubuntu version:
10.04

SMOKEU
21st August 2010, 17:26
Something is wrong with my Windows 7 computer. It has performed flawlessly over the past week. Not random restarts, no BSOD, no freezing up.

Urano
22nd August 2010, 09:57
nice.
now try to switch it on...

Forest
23rd August 2010, 13:41
Yeah ya beat me too it.
Had to down grade as SCADA is a temperamental SOB at the best of times. But also due to a few config programs also required on it, use their custom code.......rather than old school API's.
Basically I don't see being able to run SCADA/Base station PC's in 64 bit till at-least 2013. But at least now we are looking at 7 rather than XP. Some guys are running on Linux (and I have had a bit of a play)......but its a good 5 or so years until a 'unified' distro is SCADA friendly.


If you're building SCADA systems using PCs, you deserve all the problems you will get.

avgas
23rd August 2010, 14:44
If you're building SCADA systems using PCs, you deserve all the problems you will get.
Yep - but its easy to convince motorcyclists to pay extra ACC levies than it is to convince customers to pay for servers for SCADA.
And giving SCADA to IT, is like giving teenage girls the morning after pill. Even when it works it feels wrong and immoral.
I just had to upgrade a customer recently, because their 5 year old "PC" running all the telemetry SCADA was dying. They were wondering why they had to spend the money :2guns:
I mean fuck me thats not a bad record, 5 years, 7 days a week, 24 hours a day..........on a $2000 box.......
The fleet of cars and cellphones at this place would have been upgraded twice in that time.

Tis' a crazy world we live in, but ah fuck it at least it pays the bills.
[This was typed on a 4 year old laptop, which has not been upgraded due to a) Serial port lackness in new ones and b) boss still scared of new windows]

scracha
23rd August 2010, 17:09
woa 450 dollars , that's a set of tyres
but ur right about trying to buy a computer without an OS
try it sometime , buying drugs is easier, The net-book I have , MSI wind came with XP ,, of

?? Off the top of my head I can buy Acer (yuk), Asus and HP (doesn't Dell do em with Ubuntu too?) without a Win OS. Custom built ones save about $180 by not having a Win 7 pro disk with em. Can still find suppliers who supply them with the XP Pro downgrade already installed too.

Oh....top tip of the day....the Intel i3 is a complete piece of shit IMHO. Pentium/Core 2 Duo/i5/i7 much better.

Brian d marge
23rd August 2010, 18:45
?? Off the top of my head I can buy Acer (yuk), Asus and HP (doesn't Dell do em with Ubuntu too?) without a Win OS. Custom built ones save about $180 by not having a Win 7 pro disk with em. Can still find suppliers who supply them with the XP Pro downgrade already installed too.

Oh....top tip of the day....the Intel i3 is a complete piece of shit IMHO. Pentium/Core 2 Duo/i5/i7 much better.
Akihabara ( we gonna rock down to electric avenue !)
Of course I am not sure about NZ , but the high street chain stores , even PC depot here , the man from Delmonte , he say ......
No , it comes with windows and thats final mate , or I spit on your camel

In the mean time i found this theme

216860

Caelinux , but with the windows 7 theme , looks the same even to the start menu

Windows how it should be ????

Stephen

scracha
23rd August 2010, 23:32
Akihabara ( we gonna rock down to electric avenue !)
No , it comes with windows and thats final mate , or I spit on your camel

I'm sure a cocojin down shibuya could sort you out with something running linux :innocent:



Caelinux , but with the windows 7 theme , looks the same even to the start menu

That's kinda scary. To be fair, Windows 7 seems to be rock solid.

Brian d marge
24th August 2010, 00:28
I'm sure a cocojin down shibuya could sort you out with something running linux :innocent:


That's kinda scary. To be fair, Windows 7 seems to be rock solid.
its fairly easy to pick "something" up in Shibuya

The youngest one has chickenpox , so couldn't pop down Pc depot , to buy stuff , have to wait until he gets better , I dont know who will go stir crazy first , me or him ....

I have even organized my Cd and movie collection ( all 3 three of em)

Stephen

scracha
24th August 2010, 18:37
its fairly easy to pick "something" up in Shibuya

Nothing that a cocktail umbrella up my japs eye followed by a course of antibiotics couldn't fix

Brian d marge
24th August 2010, 22:18
Nothing that a cocktail umbrella up my japs eye followed by a course of antibiotics couldn't fix

it was painful wasn't it , and the basket didn't even warn me :shit:

Stephen

avgas
25th August 2010, 13:50
I miss hugging the Sapporo machine every day.
400 yen per serving of joy.

scracha
25th August 2010, 20:08
I miss hugging the Sapporo machine every day.
400 yen per serving of joy.
I spent weeks looking but never found one vending machine that sold vacuum wrapped used panties.

avgas
26th August 2010, 09:15
I spent weeks looking but never found one vending machine that sold vacuum wrapped used panties.
I found them, but not in a machine.
In the 711 (or whatever they called it).
In between the porn, alcohol and business shirts (I kid you not).
Perhaps in Ueno I think? But don't quote me on that it was nearly 4 years ago.