Supercharger...

[Paul in NZ]

Or not....

Gawd.... where does this shite come from...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-for-sale/Performance/auction-309707705.htm

[onearmedbandit]

Or not....

Gawd.... where does this shite come from...

http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Motorbikes/Parts-for-sale/Performance/auction-309707705.htm

Watch out Land Speed Record peoples, I'm buying 4 of them!

[Lurch]

Might as well strap a Stebel to my carby, it would probably do a better job.

[avgas]

I actually did something similar in the 90's. Using a old hair dryer on my Vaux Chevanne.
It actually worked a little bit. So I think this has a little potential.
But not worth $180, more likely $40.

[imdying]

I actually did something similar in the 90's. Using a old hair dryer on my Vaux Chevanne.
It actually worked a little bit. So I think this has a little potential.You're taking the piss, right? :mellow:

[avgas]

You're taking the piss, right? :mellow:
Nope. Think of it like an air ram, that simulates you doing 100kmh when your only doing 10kmh

[Slyer]

<img src=http://jdm-insider.com/Blogs/Eric/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/fakexs004.jpg>
Real men glue their turbos.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Or not....

Gawd.... where does this shite come from...


I'm thinking maybe DangerousBastard has swapped his icecreams for this francise???

[SMOKEU]

I'm going to buy one of these and a replacement powerband for my CBR.

[onearmedbandit]

Nope. Think of it like an air ram, that simulates you doing 100kmh when your only doing 10kmh

Everything I've read suggests that ram-air has no effect at speeds of 100km/h. All to do with atmospheric pressure and other stuff I know nothing about. I dare say a hairdryer would do nothing to an engines performance. Well nothing positive.

[avgas]

I'm going to buy one of these and a replacement powerband for my CBR.
Blowjob for a gay bike. Nice.

[imdying]

Nope. Think of it like an air ram, that simulates you doing 100kmh when your only doing 10kmhYou're still taking the piss, right?!?!?! :rofl:

[avgas]

Everything I've read suggests that ram-air has no effect at speeds of 100km/h.
I read once that you could survive an A-bomb by hiding under a desk.
How times have changed.

[imdying]

Everything I've read suggests that ram-air has no effect at speeds of 100km/h.Not related to this.

[SMOKEU]

Blowjob for a gay bike. Nice.

That, and some racing stripes is guaranteed to give me an extra 500bhp.

[avgas]

That, and some racing stripes is guaranteed to give me an extra 500bhp.
You forgot the NOS and VTEC stickers.

[onearmedbandit]

Not related to this.

It has when avgas made the comparison with the effect of ram-air at 100km/h occurring at 10km/h, thereby insinuating that there was a noticeable improvement.

My argument is, in this instance, on the effect of ram-air at 100km/h.

[onearmedbandit]

I read once that you could survive an A-bomb by hiding under a desk.
How times have changed.

Errr, what? Has physics changed in the last few years?

[avgas]

You're still taking the piss, right?!?!?! :rofl:
Like I said. Not exactly earth shattering performance. But essentially if you do it right what is the difference between and mechanical drive and an electric one.
But fuck paying $180 for that. Set of iridium's and a remap would give you much larger performance boosts.....easy.

But if your ever wondering what to do with an old hairdryer chassis and a grunty electric motor.......

[avgas]

Errr, what? Has physics changed in the last few years?
Nah but now the desks are made in china lol

[imdying]

Like I said. Not exactly earth shattering performance. But essentially if you do it right what is the difference between and mechanical drive and an electric one.
But fuck paying $180 for that. Set of iridium's and a remap would give you much larger performance boosts.....easy.Goodness. You are serious :shit:

Best laugh all day :lmao:

[cave weta]

I just asked a question on the auction



I bet he wont answer my question..........:shutup:

[Crasherfromwayback]

But if your ever wondering what to do with an old hairdryer chassis and a grunty electric motor.......

I'll tell ya what not to do with an electrical appliance...years ago a mate of mine dropped a nut into his inlet manifold of his CF Bedford.

Thought he was a clever cunt using his girlfriends brand new Electolux vacuum cleaner to suck it out.

The fuel vapours turned that puppy into a huge hand grenade and blew the fucking thing to bits.

We were still pissing ourselves 3 hrs later. She failed to see the funny side of it.

[avgas]

I'll tell ya what not to do with an electrical appliance...years ago a mate of mine dropped a nut into his inlet manifold of his CF Bedford.

Thought he was a clever cunt using his girlfriends brand new Electolux vacuum cleaner to suck it out.

The fuel vapours turned that puppy into a huge hand grenade and blew the fucking thing to bits.

We were still pissing ourselves 3 hrs later. She failed to see the funny side of it.
Another fun thing do to with old vacuum's is to remove the fan from it.
The motor then spins a full speed until it self destructs.
Screams like a mother.

[AllanB]

Hmmm fun things to do with a vacuum cleaner ........:shit:


I'm going to get one of those SuperTurbos(TM) for my lawn mower - I am however going to have to get some carbon fiber bits too to offset the additional weight of adding a battery to spin the turbine.

And maybe some full synthetic oil to help cope with the extra power.

F-me my lawns will be done in no time!

[pete376403]

Like I said. Not exactly earth shattering performance. But essentially if you do it right what is the difference between and mechanical drive and an electric one.
But fuck paying $180 for that. Set of iridium's and a remap would give you much larger performance boosts.....easy.

But if your ever wondering what to do with an old hairdryer chassis and a grunty electric motor.......
Chevanne engine was 1.2 litre IIRC. So at even a nice low 2000 rpm the airflow is around 1800 litres/minute. Must have been one hell of a hair dryer...

[Coldrider]

Save the weight of the racing stripes and just get a red coloured one, red is always faster.

[bogan]

the theory is sound i reckon, the design and construction ain't however! 0.2hp to drive the sucker, think your average supercharger will take 10-20% of the engines hp to run it, so i think avgas comparison of this to ram air at 100kmhr is pretty apt. Both do a tiny bit in theory, but both do fuck all in practice :bleh:

Course if you buy it in red it'll do fuck all plus 10% :yes:

[Slyer]

Another fun thing do to with old vacuum's is to remove the fan from it.
The motor then spins a full speed until it self destructs.
Screams like a mother.
364dzVsBs2o

[bogan]

ahhh thats fucking awesome, things werent going quick enough so add brick, made a mess of some tomato plants too :D

[Juzz976]

Another fun thing do to with old vacuum's is to remove the fan from it.
The motor then spins a full speed until it self destructs.
Screams like a mother.

It would still only run at its max speed for the supply frequency of 50Hz unless it was on a VSD.
All you've done is take the load off it and would drawng well below its nominal current, therefore the windings would not be heating up very much due to the low power output.
Must have been a freak short in your windings.

[bogan]

It would still only run at its max speed for the supply frequency of 50Hz unless it was on a VSD. or a dc motor, or a universal motor
All you've done is take the load off it and would drawng well below its nominal current, therefore the windings would not be heating up very much due to the low power output.
Must have been a freak short in your windings.

10 muthafyucking chars

[Paul in NZ]

Watch out Land Speed Record peoples, I'm buying 4 of them!

Then ya better upgrade yer battery as well...... :innocent:

[jonbuoy]

Like I said. Not exactly earth shattering performance. But essentially if you do it right what is the difference between and mechanical drive and an electric one.
But fuck paying $180 for that. Set of iridium's and a remap would give you much larger performance boosts.....easy.

But if your ever wondering what to do with an old hairdryer chassis and a grunty electric motor.......

Electric one would work but it would have to be a hefty motor to drive a roots or screw compressor - those pissy electric fans can´t push or compress air (which is what a super/turbo needs to do) Put your hand over the end of one theres nothing to push your hand away. Blades have no grip on the air. I´m not even sure it wouldn´t disrupt the airflow in the carburettor venturi in a bad way.

[Edbear]

Everything I've read suggests that ram-air has no effect at speeds of 100km/h. All to do with atmospheric pressure and other stuff I know nothing about. I dare say a hairdryer would do nothing to an engines performance. Well nothing positive.

I once hooked up the heater fan to the aircleaner on my Wolseley 6/80 and it did actually increase the idle speed a few rpm's... :yes:


I'll tell ya what not to do with an electrical appliance...years ago a mate of mine dropped a nut into his inlet manifold of his CF Bedford.

Thought he was a clever cunt using his girlfriends brand new Electolux vacuum cleaner to suck it out.

The fuel vapours turned that puppy into a huge hand grenade and blew the fucking thing to bits.

We were still pissing ourselves 3 hrs later. She failed to see the funny side of it.

And the time my Bro-in-law thought he'd be able to suck some stones out of the fuel tank of his Bobcat... Was funny as...! :shit:

[thehollowmen]

If I just put bad mechanical judgment into this, a litre bike at 1100 rpm (idle for a GSXR) will be sucking 1100 cubic litres of air per minute.

A VANTEC TD8038H 80mm Case Fan (I'm being generous picking a high end one) puts through 84.1 cubic feet per minute at 5700RPM. This translates to 2.4 cubic meters. Scaling to keep up with the engine, the fan will have to scream away at er... 2612500 RPM

So I look at these calculations, and use what little mechanical knowledge I have and it makes me wonder if it might give an unusual increase in low end torque due to being choked a little and therefore running rich. That or the placebo effect.

What does worry me is the engine will start sucking these fan blades up to speed, and I'm not sure how much stress they can handle (I'll probably work the forces out tomorrow when I'm bored at work), which makes them likely to break off into nice sharp bits of plastic, perfect for cutting through or getting stuck in the filters / carb / injector bits and pieces. Whadaya mean the warranty doesn't cover this?

Feel free to put me out of my misery if I'm in error.

[Old Steve]

Thought he was a clever cunt using his girlfriends brand new Electolux vacuum cleaner to suck it out. The fuel vapours turned that puppy into a huge hand grenade and blew the fucking thing to bits.

That reminds me of the contractors hired to degas one of the bulk petrol tanks at Mobil's Lyttelton terminal some years ago. You degas a bulk fuel tank by blowing air from a fan through the tank for some considerable time, then test for hydrocarbons to determine if it's gas free.

However these guys hooked the fan up to suck the air out of the tank. Petrol vapours over electric fan (as it was supposed to push air into the tank it didn't have to be flameproof), ignition, flame front moved faster back into the tank than the outgoing airflow, bulk ignition inside the tank, the steel "floating" roof of the tank went straight up and came down right inside the tank. No-one hurt - I do believe in miracles. Don't know how long it took the contractors to get their hearing back, or when they ever worked on an oil company site again.

[Bass]

As I recall, a supercharger uses about 40% of the extra power that it generates. The motor on this one needs about about 12 volts and (say) 14 amps, i.e. about 170 watts.
If that is 40% of the increase, then the total extra power is about 425 watts of which the supercharger uses 170, leaving 255 watts extra for the rider to play with.
Thats about 1/3 of a horsepower.

[Pixie]

It takes more than a hairdryer connected to a battery.
But it can be done: http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0406tur_knight_turbo_electric_supercharger/index.html

[Pixie]

I'll tell ya what not to do with an electrical appliance...years ago a mate of mine dropped a nut into his inlet manifold of his CF Bedford.

Thought he was a clever cunt using his girlfriends brand new Electolux vacuum cleaner to suck it out.

The fuel vapours turned that puppy into a huge hand grenade and blew the fucking thing to bits.

We were still pissing ourselves 3 hrs later. She failed to see the funny side of it.
Same thing happens when people suck up a spider and spray insecticide down the vacuum hose

[Pixie]

Blades have no grip on the air. I´m not even sure it wouldn´t disrupt the airflow in the carburettor venturi in a bad way.

What do turbochargers use? Scotchmist?

[avgas]

It takes more than a hairdryer connected to a battery.
But it can be done: http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0406tur_knight_turbo_electric_supercharger/index.html
Duh if you want 8psi
I am talking about just increasing airflow. Which does not really increase HP - but certainly helps response on a POS........mind due so does removing seats, doors.......and doing an oil change (lol don't ask)

[avgas]

10 muthafyucking chars
lol beat me too it.
Clearly all cars have AC power grids these days. lol

[EJK]

8 of em to a V8 Commie will give easy 700Nm.

[EJK]

On a serious note, seems he gurantees a full refund, go ahead. Try one. I dare ya.

[jonbuoy]

What do turbochargers use? Scotchmist?

Turbo is a gas compressor with a turbine not a "fan". Fans make stuff all static pressure.

[bogan]

Turbo is a gas compressor with a turbine not a "fan". Fans make stuff all static pressure.

so what about propellers? they are basically a fan, they seem to work pretty well....

[schrodingers cat]

364dzVsBs2o

The funniest thing about this is that if you try to watch it in You Tube itself, it comes up as having been flagged as inappropriate...??? WTF?

I mean, who by? Bricklovers?

Some brilliant stuff there. More of this sort of thing thanks

[jonbuoy]

so what about propellers? they are basically a fan, they seem to work pretty well....

They are good at moving a lot of air not compressing it ie "static pressure", the compressor blades in a turboprop engine look nothing like the propellor blades on the front of the engine, designed for two different purposes. My point is these small electric fan based "turbo" chargers don´t work, it would be possible to drive a roots or rotrex type of charger with an electric motor that would give you a decent amount of boost, but you might as well power it from a belt on the engine.

[Ocean1]

think your average supercharger will take 10-20% of the engines hp to run it,

Depends. :shifty:

A top fuel rail blower drive has to be good for about 300hp.

[Ocean1]

Fuck all to do with mains frequency, they're not usually a synchronous motor.

[pete376403]

They are good at moving a lot of air not compressing it ie "static pressure", the compressor blades in a turboprop engine look nothing like the propellor blades on the front of the engine, designed for two different purposes. My point is these small electric fan based "turbo" chargers don´t work, it would be possible to drive a roots or rotrex type of charger with an electric motor that would give you a decent amount of boost, but you might as well power it from a belt on the engine.
EcoMotor ( www.ecomotor.com/technology ) have a turbocharger with an auxilliary electric motor to assist the turbo to spin up quickly (and can act as a generator when the turbo is driven by exhaust gas).
Also a turbo compressor wheel is designed to get low pressure air moving at high speed. When te air slows down in the diffuser, thats where the pressure rises. Anyway, air pressure isn't as important as volume (flow)

[bogan]

They are good at moving a lot of air not compressing it ie "static pressure", the compressor blades in a turboprop engine look nothing like the propellor blades on the front of the engine, designed for two different purposes. My point is these small electric fan based "turbo" chargers don´t work, it would be possible to drive a roots or rotrex type of charger with an electric motor that would give you a decent amount of boost, but you might as well power it from a belt on the engine.

you've lost me, a turboprop runs a turbine to drive a propellor doesn't it? so the turbine shaft is driven by the gases, we are talking about the opposite here. the way I look at it, is if the prop on a plane is creating forward force, theres gotta be a pressure on the back of the blades right? Newton's third law init.


Depends. :shifty:

A top fuel rail blower drive has to be good for about 300hp.

so whats that equate to? bout 25%? man those things are awesome :yes:

[jonbuoy]

you've lost me, a turboprop runs a turbine to drive a propellor doesn't it? so the turbine shaft is driven by the gases, we are talking about the opposite here. the way I look at it, is if the prop on a plane is creating forward force, theres gotta be a pressure on the back of the blades right? Newton's third law init.



so whats that equate to? bout 25%? man those things are awesome :yes:

You´ve lost me as well, I was talking about the design of the blades and the difference between a compressor fan and a propellor fan, different beasts.

[jonbuoy]

EcoMotor ( www.ecomotor.com/technology ) have a turbocharger with an auxilliary electric motor to assist the turbo to spin up quickly (and can act as a generator when the turbo is driven by exhaust gas).
Also a turbo compressor wheel is designed to get low pressure air moving at high speed. When te air slows down in the diffuser, thats where the pressure rises. Anyway, air pressure isn't as important as volume (flow)

Sounds like a great idea to reduce lag, my point is these crappy internet electric turbo chargers are snake oil, sure somebody somewhere has coupled a proper supercharger to an electric motor but the ones from the orginal post aren´t that type. Big difference between a proper supercharger/turbo impellor spinning at 200,000 RPM or so and an electric motor with a fan on the end of it.

[bucket boy]

Sounds like a great idea to reduce lag, my point is these crappy internet electric turbo chargers are snake oil, sure somebody somewhere has coupled a proper supercharger to an electric motor but the ones from the orginal post aren´t that type. Big difference between a proper supercharger/turbo impellor spinning at 200,000 RPM or so and an electric motor with a fan on the end of it.
I would love to have a engine that could handle spinning a blower that fast.

[jonbuoy]

Small turbos have those kinds of speeds - ie small car & motorcycle turbochargers.

[avgas]

a litre bike at 1100 rpm (idle for a GSXR) will be sucking 1100 cubic litres of air per minute.
I thought the intake valves close in a 4 stroke engine.......

[imdying]

I thought the intake valves close in a 4 stroke engine.......Going to quote the rest of his post or even sentence, or just the bit that suits you?

Come on, tell us the truth... you're not actually retarded enough to think that one of those would have any positive effect on your engines output, right?

[bogan]

You´ve lost me as well, I was talking about the design of the blades and the difference between a compressor fan and a propellor fan, different beasts.

you were saying fan blades created fuck all pressure, I was attempting to re-educate you :yes: clearly the design is different, but it doesn't have anything to do with you original statement.

[bogan]

I thought the intake valves close in a 4 stroke engine.......

pretty sure idle means the throttle ain't WFO either :laugh:

[bogan]

If I just put bad mechanical judgment into this, a litre bike at 1100 rpm (idle for a GSXR) will be sucking 1100 cubic litres of air per minute.

A VANTEC TD8038H 80mm Case Fan (I'm being generous picking a high end one) puts through 84.1 cubic feet per minute at 5700RPM. This translates to 2.4 cubic meters. Scaling to keep up with the engine, the fan will have to scream away at er... 2612500 RPM

So I look at these calculations, and use what little mechanical knowledge I have and it makes me wonder if it might give an unusual increase in low end torque due to being choked a little and therefore running rich. That or the placebo effect.

What does worry me is the engine will start sucking these fan blades up to speed, and I'm not sure how much stress they can handle (I'll probably work the forces out tomorrow when I'm bored at work), which makes them likely to break off into nice sharp bits of plastic, perfect for cutting through or getting stuck in the filters / carb / injector bits and pieces. Whadaya mean the warranty doesn't cover this?

Feel free to put me out of my misery if I'm in error.

ok, apart from the intake valves and throttle position, 1100 cubic litres is 1.1 cubic meters. At 10000rpm and wfo, it'll be around 5 cubic meters per minute.

[avgas]

positive effect on your engines output, right?
Just to clear something up......never mentioned that it was going to revolutionize the industry. And I have time and time again mentioned it is not worth the coin.

However is amusing to do on the input of the engine. And its only a matter of time until more commercial versions are available (Friend is currently working on a 1kw bushless DC puppy on his 'tang). I hold it in the same region as Air rams.......can't be dismissed until its tried.

As for the Vaux - she is long time dead, and before she died the hairdrier was removed along with air box, filters.......and all was replaced with a big of pipe connected the carb to an crappy air ram.
Which sucked in grass seed real good.

But previous to that, down low, with a constant forced feed of air into the airbox......the "blower" was doing a good job - I doubt it was worth HP or NM........but definitely let the girl pick up her skirts before she tried to run. Kinda similar difference between gravity feed and fuel pump on small cc bikes. Not shit loads of increase, prob not even measurable.......but you know its there.

[imdying]

However is amusing to do on the input of the engine. And its only a matter of time until more commercial versions are availableEbay China, plenty of versions already available.

(Friend is currently working on a 1kw bushless DC puppy on his 'tang). I hold it in the same region as Air rams.......can't be dismissed until its tried.Of course it can, that's why we have physics 101. Of course, your mate might be immune to the first law of thermodynamics I guess... if he can package that and sell it, good on him :rofl:

[stig]

There are plenty of people who have done the math to prove that these things are snake oil. Heres one more: http://autospeed.com/cms/title_The-Twin-Turbo-Zet/A_110827/article.html

I noticed someone read through all the Q&A on the auction and still bought it in spite of the warnings. Some people can't be saved from themselves unfortunately.

[bogan]

There are plenty of people who have done the math to prove that these things are snake oil. Heres one more: http://autospeed.com/cms/title_The-Twin-Turbo-Zet/A_110827/article.html

I noticed someone read through all the Q&A on the auction and still bought it in spite of the warnings. Some people can't be saved from themselves unfortunately.

haha love it


Reaction of all technical experts who examined the Twin Turbo Zet:

Extreme mirth

[imdying]

Yeah but but but his mates gonna use a 1kW brushless motor on his taaaaang :rofl:

[bogan]

think of it like a ducted fan, if the power isn't enough to create significant boost, it'll still develop a low pressure zone in front of the vehicle, otherwise where would the 1kw of work you put in go? So he'll have and extra kw of forward power, if you draw from the battery only for short periods rather than the alternator obviously. I reckon at a kw there will be some boost developed anyway, that article reckoned 14kw for 10psi didn't it?

[imdying]

An extra kW? Even if it could work the way you describe (it can't), it's also a magic lossless system now too :gob:

Shit, gotta get me one of these :love:

[bogan]

so why can't it work as I described, as far as I'm away ducted fans create lift by generating a pressure differential on the blades, if theres no boost on the downwind side, theres gotta be some vac on the upwind right. Would you prefer me to say an extra kw (before fan losses) then?

[imdying]

so why can't it work as I described, as far as I'm away ducted fans create lift by generating a pressure differential on the blades, if theres no boost on the downwind side, theres gotta be some vac on the upwind right. Would you prefer me to say an extra kw (before fan losses) then?It's already been covered.

But yes, before fan losses would be a good start :laugh: It is impossible to take 1kW from a battery, and turn it into 1kW at the output shaft on the engine. It's also impossible to use a tiny little fan like this to produce boost. It's all been covered in this thread. Start with jonbouy's post.

[stig]

so why can't it work as I described, as far as I'm away ducted fans create lift by generating a pressure differential on the blades, if theres no boost on the downwind side, theres gotta be some vac on the upwind right. Would you prefer me to say an extra kw (before fan losses) then?

A good axial fan in a duct would at best make 250pa which is about 0.04psi.
after that they will just hold that pressure and cavitate, the extra energy gets turned into noise and heat.
They are designed to move lots of air at low pressure

[bogan]

It's already been covered.

But yes, before fan losses would be a good start :laugh: It is impossible to take 1kW from a battery, and turn it into 1kW at the output shaft on the engine. It's also impossible to use a tiny little fan like this to produce boost. It's all been covered in this thread. Start with jonbouy's post.

don't hink he specified whether the 1kw was shaft or electrical, motors are generally good for about 80% though, so you're splitting hairs.

Also I disagreed with his post and I'm yet to hear a convincing counterargument :shutup:


A good axial fan in a duct would at best make 250pa which is about 0.04psi.
after that they will just hold that pressure and cavitate, the extra energy gets turned into noise and heat.
They are designed to move lots of air at low pressure

from here (http://www.ductedfans.com/Turbo_Fan_4000_Ductedfanscom.html) we have a 2.5kw ducted fan producing 40N of force, given a fan area of 0.012m2 I make that 3.3kpa right? which is half a pound of pressure differential. Doesn't give airflow but shows the theory works, it ain't practical as there are better options out there, but it can be done.

[imdying]

Also I disagreed with his post and I'm yet to hear a convincing counterargument :shutup:What part of fans and propellors are not compressors are you having trouble with? :confused:

[bogan]

What part of fans and propellors are not compressors are you having trouble with? :confused:

what part of not the best solution but can still work do you not understand?

[jonbuoy]

what part of not the best solution but can still work do you not understand?

Go for it - buy one of those fans connect it up with the blowing end ducted into a 250cc metal tank, drill and tap a hole into the tank connect up a pressure guage and let us know the pressure "boost" it gives. You could connect it up to an airmatress or a lilio - about 1PSI max pressure on those, see if you can fill it up if you burst it you might have made a supercharger. A lightly boosted engine is say 7-9 psi about the same pressure as a basket ball.

[imdying]

So you've gone from bullshit Chinese novelty crap to giant sized ducted fan units with an huge appetite for electrical power in an effort to justify what can only be described as an impractical and retarded suggestion. You're a fucked unit :rofl:

Yes, you can make a supercharger from an electric motor and a compressor. No, none of your ideas are remotely practical.

Finally, given that even an idiot like yourself can admit than even a 2.5kW electric motor isn't going to do shit for a motorcycle engines performance, no matter whether it's driving a fan, compressor, propeller, or Tinkerbells wings... then how is it that you've let your mate get further than a drunken design on the back of a napkin with his super duper 1kW brushless motor on his 'taaaang? Because that's not being a mate... that's just being a cunt... unless you're going to film it for his 21st or something??

[bogan]

Go for it - buy one of those fans connect it up with the blowing end ducted into a 250cc metal tank, drill and tap a hole into the tank connect up a pressure guage and let us know the pressure "boost" it gives. You could connect it up to an airmatress or a lilio - about 1PSI max pressure on those, see if you can fill it up if you burst it you might have made a supercharger. A lightly boosted engine is say 7-9 psi about the same pressure as a basket ball.

a good suggestion with the lilo (don't think we got small enough pressure gauges unless I could be assed making a fluid gauge (which I cannot)), we even have a ducted fan lying round the office at uni, think its only good for thrust in the tens of grams range though, makes a hell of a noise and blows a fuckload of air though!
Think the electric supercharges are only ever gonna be providing fractions of a pound, as too much more and the ecu would need rechiping/remapping. But considering the work some people go to on their intake systems to maintain just neutral pressure after the filter even fractions of a psi may find some use.
Another point is different designs have different pressure limits, positive displacement pumps can hit the highest pressures, then centrfugal turbos etc, thrust prop and ducted fans next probly, then displacment fans used mainly for cooling. Different applications call for different tech.


So you've gone from bullshit Chinese novelty crap to giant sized ducted fan units with an huge appetite for electrical power in an effort to justify what can only be described as an impractical and retarded suggestion. You're a fucked unit :rofl:


I've gone from a technical discusion to still having a technical discusion, you've gone from the same to mindless insults, who's really the 'fucked unit' here?

[jonbuoy]

When you see how much air an engine swallows at idle its easy to see why these small fans won´t work, this is easier to do on a car - with the engine running at idle try and put the palm of your hand over the air filter inlet and see how much your hand gets sucked onto it (do this at your own risk!) Imagine how much air its sucking at higher revs, the charger has got to keep up with this (and more) to give any "boost" at all.

[bogan]

When you see how much air an engine swallows at idle its easy to see why these small fans won´t work, this is easier to do on a car - with the engine running at idle try and put the palm of your hand over the air filter inlet and see how much your hand gets sucked onto it (do this at your own risk!) Imagine how much air its sucking at higher revs, the charger has got to keep up with this (and more) to give any "boost" at all.

done it on some paddock shitta as a kill switch, the vac is pretty big, but the flow isn't anything too spectacular. Don't have to imagine either, assuming a volumetric efficiency of 80% a 2L engine will draw (2/2*5000*0.8)=4000L or 4 cubic meters per minute at 5000rpm; which is approximately 140cfm. So for the 2.5kW fan I posted before (0.012m2 duct area) the air would need to flow at 5.5m/s or 20kmhr, doesn't sound very fast at all so there may be a hole in my calculations but I can't spot it.

[avgas]

It is impossible to take 1kW from a battery
Very true......which is why he got me to work on a little something for him :shifty: Hope it didn't blow up on him....but I didn't make any promises.
However I could only guarantee that for a short time - so really his setup would be when you getting off idle. Not a full blow launch and hold. But as we have discussed earlier - volumes are difficult to maintain when the revs get up.
Have no idea where he got the motor from though. Or WTF his air-intake even looks like - so couldn't comment on that.

Slightly side-tracked - but would love to have something like this
http://www.supercars.net/cars/1034.html
Could be a fun little hybrid.

[avgas]

the charger has got to keep up with this (and more) to give any "boost" at all.
I don't imagine these devices are designed to do this. As stated earlier - they are too gutless to maintain whole engine airflow. But are fortunate enough to offer a positive pressure (admittedly small) to a neutral system.
Worth a $5 bolt on fun with something you don't love. But not the $180 being asked.

[pete376403]

If you're going to talk about superchargers... " At maximum pressure, it takes approximately 900 horsepower (670 kW) to drive the supercharger.... Absolute manifold pressure is usually 3.8-4.5 bar (56-66 PSI), but up to 5.0 bar (74 PSI) is possible. The manifold is fitted with a 200 psi burst plate"
and:
"The calculated Power output of these engines is most likely somewhere between 8500 and 10,000 horsepower (approximately 4500-6000 kilowatts)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Fuel#Superchargers

[bogan]

The manifold is fitted with a 200 psi burst plate"

lol, what they mean there is they leave one bit of it stock while strengthening the rest! those top fuel engines are fucking amazing though.

[jonbuoy]

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/turboflow.html

There is a spreadsheet at the bottom for calculating turbo sizes.

[jonbuoy]

Have you rigged up the fan & discovered the difference between pressure and flow yet?

[bogan]

Have you rigged up the fan & discovered the difference between pressure and flow yet?

nah cbf, rather build motorcycle parts instead, though I do know to get flow you need a pressure differential, albeit a very small one; which was the point I was trying to make anyway.

[Paul in NZ]

I simply cant believe this ever turned into a serious conversation... gleep...

[SMOKEU]

I simply cant believe this ever turned into a serious conversation... gleep...

Anything is possible on KB.

[jonbuoy]

There is one out there that works - looks like a complete pain in the arse for short term gain considering the idea of a supercharger on a stock car is to increase overall drivability. More expensive, heavier and looks harder to install than a belt driven version with less performance so I´m not sure why anyone would want one.


http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/0406tur_knight_turbo_electric_supercharger/index.html

[Slyer]

The same reason you do everything. Because you can. :)

[Paul in NZ]

I reckon a dirty great cylinder of compressed air is going to be easier...

[jonbuoy]

Ah yeah and keep it topped up by a Petrol powered air compressor in the boot? :lol: Not sure why turbo cars can´t dump the blow off into a accumulator tank and use it to reduce lag. Probably too much hassel for too little return.

[bogan]

Ah yeah and keep it topped up by a Petrol powered air compressor in the boot? :lol: Not sure why turbo cars can´t dump the blow off into a accumulator tank and use it to reduce lag. Probably too much hassel for too little return.

or take it a step furthur and have supercharged engines do the same under engine braking; the ducati v-one is the first I heard of that technique being applied, it's pretty out there in other aspects though too. Personally I'd really like to have a go at making a charged two stroke with direct injection and an exhaust valve (gear driven and pneumatic lifters for extra awesome), serious CNC time required for a prototype there though.

[pete376403]

:lol: Not sure why turbo cars can´t dump the blow off into a accumulator tank and use it to reduce lag. Probably too much hassel for too little return.
They probably could, but then the boyz would miss out on the "fish" noise that alerts everyone to the fact that the car has a turbo.

[DarkLord]

Some dude actually bought it?

I hope it was someone on here and they post about it.... would be interesting to see how this turns out... :corn: