How do you want your money spent - ideas sought

[rastuscat]

Hi Y'all

If you were going to design a media (print media only, but some billboards and maybe bus-backs too) campaign backed by some enforcement, what would you do? Funding is coming from the local council and ACC. Obviously, enforcement will be done by us.

The idea is that it is likely to be based on SMIDSYs. Those are crashes where the offending driver knocks a biker over, then says "Sorry Mate, I Didn't See You", or SMIDSY.

We want to educate drivers on having a decent look for oncoming vehicles. A good percentage of bike crashes are caused by someone not seeing the bike coming even when it's there to be seen, and failing to give way.

It's a mental shift we are trying to achieve. People (including bikers) never think it will happen to them, but it does anyway. How do we change that attitude? What can I put in the media or on a billboard that might awaken some drivers?

Sensible suggestions welcomed. Non-sensible ones welcome too, but unlikely to be used. I always have a laugh at funny ideas. I have a meeting on Monday where we will be discussing it, and I'll take along any ideas that I think might work for us.

Bring it on !!

[Bald Eagle]

some sort of dotted silhouette indicating the 'invisible' biker, maybe.

something like we are bikers not super hero invsible man
or one of those where's wally but it's a biker

[MSTRS]

Don't know about the picture, but any need a simple catchline.

You have eyes. Or you wouldn't be driving. Right?

Or...

Eyes are for using.

Or...

The blind don't drive.

Or...

The biker can see you.

[avgas]

Picture of a bike with a harpoon gun.
"Paybacks a bitch"

[bogan]

make it something that will stand up to scrutiny, no photoshopping it so it looks like the bike is harder to see than normal.

[george formby]

From what I have read ( & experienced ) drivers are looking for what they expect to see, a car or truck. It's the brain ignoring the bike or cyclist because it wants to see something bigger & doe's not register the bike from a glance.
I would suggest " What are you looking at/for?" to get the message across. Quick decisions are another contributor so "look again" if memory serves it used to be "look once, look twice, think bike .
You could put a dinosaur on a bike & call it a "douthinkhesaurus":shifty:

[rastuscat]

You could put a dinosaur on a bike & call it a "douthinkhesaurus":shifty:

Nice, like that.

[Big Dave]

Hi Y'all

I would call me for a quote on production.
http://www.davidcohen.co.nz

:-)

[Katman]

How about we introduce a new abbreviation?

SYDSMBTISY.

(So you didn't see me but thankfully I saw you).

[Berries]

It will be interesting to see how you are going to enforce SMIDSY moments. Unmarked bikes with onboard video cameras ?

One question. You say "your money" and then post this in the ACC section. Does that mean this campaign is being funded out of the $30 levy ?

[NONONO]

You have the money for this or is it just another pipe dream?
Can I suggest,
"Bikers will kick your bastard arse if you are so blind you can't see a bright red 1000cc motorcycle, doing the speed limit, with a reflective vest on, and a high vis helmet, in broad daylight, you P smoking, drunk driving, cage steering moron!".
Or should I just clean up my own backyard?

[Katman]

"Bikers will kick your bastard arse if you are so blind you can't see a bright red 1000cc motorcycle, doing the speed limit, with a reflective vest on, and a high vis helmet, in broad daylight, you P smoking, drunk driving cage steering moron"?


More realistically it'll be 'Biker will kick your door in then shit their pants and run like fuck when you come after them'.

[NONONO]

So that's the kind of biker you are Katman? Not this one. Sick of your self flagellation. Washes with no one any more.
Time for a change, move aside, you're in the fuckin way.....

[Katman]

So that's the kind of biker you are Katman?

There's plenty of threads on here showing chest beaters being shown up as full of shit.








Where is Stoney by the way?

[NONONO]

There's plenty of threads on here showing chest beaters being shown up as full of shit.

Where is Stoney by the way?
What the fuks StoneY got to do with it?
Tossers like you doing the governments work is the issue.
Your views are redundant.
Here's an idea. Get 2 more wheels, and a roof, life would be so much easier for you if only you came out of the closet.
"Let those that ride decide".

[rastuscat]

Yup, I wondered how long it would take for this thread to turn into a flogging match.

Thanks fior not disappointing me.

To answer the ACC funding question, I'm noty sure how they are funding this local project, sorry I can't answer.

[Katman]

Thanks fior not disappointing me.


You're welcome.

[Dare]

Yup, I wondered how long it would take for this thread to turn into a flogging match.

Thanks fior not disappointing me.

To answer the ACC funding question, I'm noty sure how they are funding this local project, sorry I can't answer.

Got some ideas, my degree does some interesting viral videos/ campaigns etc. Sadly already into my last semester but point ACC in the direction of my course organizers if you want a fresh perspective on getting some public awareness :yes:

[schrodingers cat]

The best strategy is for the design team to have a big retreat to come up with idea's. Import hookers and drugs and fly fresh strawberries from Mongolia. Generally trough it up. Throw in a couple of Nazi uniforms and leak the video to the media.

Next step - sit back and wait for endless TV time. Try to divert their attention from the big waste of public money (outrage!) to the fact that sooooooooo many accidents are caused by people who think 'sorry' is an appropriate response to putting life at risk of serious harm.

If nothing ultimately comes of it, at least you've had a whale of a time!

Actually, the best spend would be to buy a whole heap of scooters.
Any driver reported (by bikers) of causing a SIDSYM moment gets summonsed to ride 10k in rush hour traffic.
Education about things that can kill you stays with you a long time

[st00ji]

yeah forget advertising campaigns, nothing liking using two wheeled transport to make you more aware of it while on four.

the GDLS has needed overhauling for ages i reckon :yes:

[Berries]

Well I’d say in Chch a cyclist is more likely to be involved in a SMIDSY moment, so a campaign using them will benefit motorbikes. But then I bet there are more car vs car SMIDSY moments anyway, so not sure that the use of a motorbike is the ideal way. If people can’t see a car or a truck when pulling out they have a problem.

If a campaign is going to go to billboards then it has to be a very short message, half a dozen words, and a very simple image. Too many billboards are too hard to read, or too distracting. If you can’t work it out in a couple of seconds it has failed.

Images of cars that have been T-boned by trucks, or trains, might be the best way to scare car drivers. They generally aren’t going to get hurt if they pull out on a bike coming towards them so who cares ?

Considering the chances of an individual car having to give way to a motorbike are fairly slim, but an individual motorbike is going to be at risk at every intersection he/she rides past, perhaps the campaign should be aimed at the rider – cover your brakes, road positioning, scanning for hazards etc etc. Failing to give way is one of the most basic offences, so the enforcement of it should not need supporting by a media campaign.

Failing that, dump all the smashed up cars in Cathedral Square for a few weeks. That should raise awareness.

[bogan]

Well I had a good think about it, and for print media I reckon incorporate something like:

Open casket with biker helmet (mirror tint) instead of face, guy putting a wreath on the casket with words "Sorry Mate I Didn't See You"

Appropriate message written on board like:
Sorry doesn't cut it, check for bikes.

[Squiggles]

some sort of dotted silhouette indicating the 'invisible' biker, maybe.

They did that in Auckland a couple of years back, you dont see the bike till you're close to the poster. Shame it was only put on a couple of bus stops and not pushed further.

[Squiggles]

One question. You say "your money" and then post this in the ACC section. Does that mean this campaign is being funded out of the $30 levy ?

Presumably funded the same way they've always been, the local prevention guy gets some money for whatever action he/we can dream up. The Auckland reps are also after ideas (Motorcycling is the focus this year)

[NinjaNanna]

Well I had a good think about it, and for print media I reckon incorporate something like:

Open casket with biker helmet (mirror tint) instead of face, guy putting a wreath on the casket with words "Sorry Mate I Didn't See You"

Appropriate message written on board like:
Sorry doesn't cut it, check for bikes.

i like this!!! I can see it being effective as it pushes it home to both the riders and the drivers


buggar, must have given you rep recently hey? kb says must spread before giving again.

[Katman]

Considering the chances of an individual car having to give way to a motorbike are fairly slim, but an individual motorbike is going to be at risk at every intersection he/she rides past, perhaps the campaign should be aimed at the rider – cover your brakes, road positioning, scanning for hazards etc etc.

I totally agree.

Far greater gain would be made by training motorcyclists to compensate for the inadequacy of others.

It would be easier to achieve and could be done at far lesser expense.

I keep reading on here that many of us think we're so much better road users than others - so why don't we start showing it?

[rastuscat]

I totally agree.

Far greater gain would be made by training motorcyclists to compensate for the inadequacy of others.

It would be easier to achieve and could be done at far lesser expense.

I keep reading on here that many of us think we're so much better road users than others - so why don't we start showing it?


I've been coming to that conclusion. We could try to change the behaviour of everyone else (unlikely and very slow) or change our own behaviour immediately and reap the benefits.

Here's a start.

Do not ever assume someone has seen you. Assume they haven't.
Strick out like a sore thumb. High viz black can be deadly.
Do not weave between lanes in moving heavy traffic.
Learn to recognise each vehicle classes blindspots, and stay out of them.
Try to be in someones rear vision mirror long enoughy for them to see what you are doing before blasting past them.
Move within your lane to impriove your chance of being seen.

How's that for a list to start on.

None of this suggests it's our fault, but waiting for the world to change will be too late for some of us.

BTW, love the idea above re the casket and the SMIDSY caption. I'll be suggesting that one. Cheers Bogan.

[Katman]

BTW, love the idea above re the casket and the SMIDSY caption. I'll be suggesting that one. Cheers Bogan.

I agree that the casket idea is a good one but........

......while it is so easy for a large proportion of the general public to take the attitude of "bah, have you seen the way they ride? They bring it upon themselves" then the backlash is likely to come back and bite us in the arse.

That is why I've always said we need to seriously address our own short-comings before getting carried away with pointing the finger at others.

If we can ever get to the stage where the vast majority of motorcycle accidents are, in fact, the fault of the other person then we will have irrefutable justification for finger pointing.

[NONONO]

215943

Bah!!

[Berries]

Do not ever assume someone has seen you. Assume they haven't.
Strick out like a sore thumb. High viz black can be deadly.
Do not weave between lanes in moving heavy traffic.
Learn to recognise each vehicle classes blindspots, and stay out of them.
Try to be in someones rear vision mirror long enoughy for them to see what you are doing before blasting past them.
Move within your lane to impriove your chance of being seen.

How's that for a list to start on.

How big is this billboard ?

[schrodingers cat]

How big is this billboard ?

Prolly big enough for bullet points of Katmans same tired posts.
Dull, dull, dull.


The problem with an essentially negative (as in don't do whatever) is the brain discards the 'don't'

So, when using a hammer for example, repating to ones self "don't hit thumb, don't hit thumb" brain discards don't and focusses on thumb. Where you look is where you go so result is "Don't hit th-owwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww"

So much for brain science. Try to phrase your message in a positive or neutral frame.

That is why Look twice, think bike (or whatever it was) was a goody.


I like the concepts on 'invisability - a superpower that can kill (you)' and that 'sorry doesn't bring back the dead.'

"You can't see us - we're all around you" says the <strike>zombie</strike> invisable biker

[Spearfish]

......while it is so easy for a large proportion of the general public to take the attitude of "bah, have you seen the way they ride? They bring it upon themselves" then the backlash is likely to come back and bite us in the arse.

That is why I've always said we need to seriously address our own short-comings before getting carried away with pointing the finger at others.


I get that often at smoko.
The cheese cutter saga started them off so anything I said about ACC just fell on painted on ears.
Prejudices propped up by a few bad experiences unfortunately.

Its hard to affect drivers in safe little cells in a way that makes them think about something other than themselves. Car designers and road builders are spending billions to remove the driver further away from the chore or driving and more like a passenger.

[gatch]

I've been walking to and from work for a while now. In my travels I've watched the same few guys on the same bikes speeding madly through traffic, popping wheelies and generally acting like fuckwits. Now I've also seen the looks the average motorist gives them... These are not adoring looks of respect and empathy. I can see the merit in what katman has been harping on about.

I think ALOT of bike accidents could be avoided if the rider was in a different mindset, that's not to say all/most crashes are caused by the rider being in the wrong.. But regardless, anyway to avoid a crash is a good way, if that involves changing how you approach motorcycling then so be it.

Anyway, I think BoGans idea is good, simple, hits the message home. Sorry doesn't cut it.

[Marmoot]

Online space is another "billboard" opportunity.
Banner advertisements strategically placed on online mass media, be it general interests (NZHerald, Stuff, etc), demographically targeted (female? male? specific age and interests?), interest-targeted (automotive websites, etc).

Typical costing is less than offline space, especially TV, radio and newspaper ads.

I can give you more info and common strategies if you feel this is relevant to your needs.

[Marmoot]

On the concept, it may be better if you capitalise on the human nature as being inherently self-centered.

Waving the fact that bikers are not invisible may seem to be the most obvious avenue, but it may miss a lot of the audience as it won't pass their "so-what" tests.

It may be better to relate with consequences, what would happen to them if they don't look for motorbikes properly at intersections.
For example, careless/dangerous driving charges is virtually standard in where someone gets injured in a multivehicle accident. Buggersome to defend, cost in lawyer, even if you get off scotfree. Surely, just because you want to get to your office quickly you still won't want to risk a court case. Plus the insurance cost, the trouble repairing the car, etc...

Moral of the story: for every 2 seconds spent looking left/right, you'll save 2 months of grievances.

[rastuscat]

How big is this billboard ?

I'm not suggesting we billboard the above.

I've refined Bogans idea to.......

Casket with person with obscured face, guy/girl standing over saying SMIDSY

Underneath caption saying

Sorry doesn't cut it, look twice at intersections.

That way it doesn't just relate to motorbikes. Lots of cars get hit the same way too.

[bogan]

I'm not suggesting we billboard the above.

I've refined Bogans idea to.......

Casket with person with obscured face, guy/girl standing over saying SMIDSY

Underneath caption saying

Sorry doesn't cut it, look twice at intersections.

That way it doesn't just relate to motorbikes. Lots of cars get hit the same way too.

So the motorcylist's pay for a general road safety campaign? sorry but that doesn't sit well with me. If we are paying for it the message needs to be to look for bikes, not look harder for cars.

[NinjaNanna]

I've been walking to and from work for a while now. In my travels I've watched the same few guys on the same bikes speeding madly through traffic, popping wheelies and generally acting like fuckwits. Now I've also seen the looks the average motorist gives them... These are not adoring looks of respect and empathy. I can see the merit in what katman has been harping on about.

I think ALOT of bike accidents could be avoided if the rider was in a different mindset, that's not to say all/most crashes are caused by the rider being in the wrong.. But regardless, anyway to avoid a crash is a good way, if that involves changing how you approach motorcycling then so be it.

Anyway, I think BoGans idea is good, simple, hits the message home. Sorry doesn't cut it.


I too really liked Bogan's idea - maybe it could be a series of advertisments, firstly dealling to smidsy, then the same approach but showing our Partners, Parents, Children and other loved ones telling US that,"sorry doesn't cut it, you had your fun but we're left here to feel the pain!"

[NONONO]

So the motorcylist's pay for a general road safety campaign? sorry but that doesn't sit well with me. If we are paying for it the message needs to be to look for bikes, not look harder for cars.

Yep, bout says it all.....

[Berries]

Sweet, that’s the intersection campaign sorted and as it is one of the 'top four' issues with dedicated funding we can move on to a motorcycle specific campaign. That’s why I asked if it was being funded out of the $30.

Two choices. Aim it at car drivers or aim it at riders. For the former all you can really do is mass publicity, like the UK’s Think Bike campaign which had simple yellow signs with a bike on it located at frequent intervals on many roads. This continually reinforced the message that riders were around. Much better than print or remote billboards like we have here.

If you have billboards for riders then don’t take ideas from some of the rubbish that is out there, like “It’s not fate that decides when to overtake, it’s you.” No point treating people like idiots. Locate them at specific locations for specific issues. 5km of twisties with a high crash rate ? Why not something simple showing a nice curve, a bike and “Take it easy, next 5km” or something basic like that.

[avgas]

SYDSMBTISY.
I fucking hate abbreviations.

[Katman]

I fucking hate abbreviations.

SDI<hgvhgvhjv>

[duckonin]

Here's a start.

Do not ever assume someone has seen you. Assume they haven't.
Strick out like a sore thumb. High viz black can be deadly.
Do not weave between lanes in moving heavy traffic.
Learn to recognise each vehicle classes blindspots, and stay out of them.
Try to be in someones rear vision mirror long enoughy for them to see what you are doing before blasting past them.
Move within your lane to impriove your chance of being seen.

This is the basics of motorcycle riding, each one of these Quotes should be made into a question in the 6R and 6 full test with a pass being 100%..:yes:

[Berries]

Got to make sure the message doesn't encourage people either. Like this one -

216577

[mashman]

Dunno what they're called. Ya know those little cards, about the size of a credit card (the do come bigger), but you change the angle of the card or your head and the image looks to be moving...

Could you put those up on billboards? Could give you an extra dimension to work with...