Kiwisaver is not just yours! BEWARE!

[aprilia_RS250]

News that kiwisaver might become compulsory has made me think about things and do a bit of searching... Only searching I ever do involves bikes but this intrigued me.

Just found out if you're in the process of a divorce and your partner has never worked, i.e. they have no kiwisaver they may be subject to receiving half of your kiwisaver balance!!! That's just fucking bananas! :wacko:

Not letting anyone see my kiwisaver balance, doesn't exist!:shifty:

[Bald Eagle]

News that kiwisaver might become compulsory has made me think about things and do a bit of searching... Only searching I ever do involves bikes but this intrigued me.

Just found out if you're in the process of a divorce and your partner has never worked, i.e. they have no kiwisaver they may be subject to receiving half of your kiwisaver balance!!! That's just fucking bananas! :wacko:

Not letting anyone see my kiwisaver balance, doesn't exist!:shifty:

That's not new for Kiwisaver. Sister got half her husbands super from his govt job, and he was still in it. He had to borrow to pay her half.

[red mermaid]

Absolutely normal, as for all matrimonial property.

Don't let this stop you joining Kiwisaver though.

It is imperative that you join, get $1000 from the Govt for doing so, a yearly subsidy on your fees and a nest egg when you turn 65.

Just watch who you choose as your provider.
Most of them put your money into unit trusts which makes more money for the providor than you.

I recommend Gareth Morgan investments. He is my providor and also a motorcyclist.

[=cJ=]

Still iffy about kiwisaver aye...

[aprilia_RS250]

Absolutely normal, as for all matrimonial property.

Don't let this stop you joining Kiwisaver though.

It is imperative that you join, get $1000 from the Govt for doing so, a yearly subsidy on your fees and a nest egg when you turn 65.

Just watch who you choose as your provider.
Most of them put your money into unit trusts which makes more money for the providor than you.

I recommend Gareth Morgan investments. He is my providor and also a motorcyclist.

There is something fundamentally wrong with this... It's money for YOUR retirement from YOUR job where the other partner usually has nothing to contribute.

Most unit trust funds have out performed GM's kiwisaver funds. Also why I won't invest with him is because he doesn't hedge against currency risk but at the same time invests globally.

[Bald Eagle]

There is something fundamentally wrong with this... It's money for YOUR retirement from YOUR job where the other partner usually has nothing to contribute.

Most unit trust funds have out performed GM's kiwisaver funds. Also why I won't invest with him is because he doesn't hedge against currency risk but at the same time invests globally.


Gotta love the underlying equality of equity not ..

[p.dath]

News that kiwisaver might become compulsory has made me think about things and do a bit of searching... Only searching I ever do involves bikes but this intrigued me.

Just found out if you're in the process of a divorce and your partner has never worked, i.e. they have no kiwisaver they may be subject to receiving half of your kiwisaver balance!!! That's just fucking bananas! :wacko:

Not letting anyone see my kiwisaver balance, doesn't exist!:shifty:

You can always contract out of the properties (relationships) act if you both agree, otherwise unless there are special circumstances assets and debts are pretty much divided up 50/50.

Oh, and if you were in "that" situation you would have to disclose your kiwisaver balance, or risk any agreement being undone.

[davereid]

Kiwisaver IMHO is best avoided, here is my take on it.

The Good.
You get $1000 to start off.
You get an employer subsidy.
You get tax credits.

The Bad
1. There is no guarantee of returns. And I challenge ANY investment advisor to name a fund that has EVER existed that has averaged an inflation adjusted return more than 4% after tax. But you don't have to be an investment advisor to name dozens of investment companies that have gone broke.
2. If you are in the 65% of people who have more than one life partner you will do-half-your-dough
3. While you can take-a-break, the fees don't take one.
4. Kiwisaver changes the age of joint retirement for a couple from when the OLDEST becomes 65 to when the YOUNGEST becomes 65.
5. You can't get the money until you reach the age of 65 (or older if the GMint changes it). So you can't choose an earlier retirement age, even if you have saved millions of dollars.
6. You will have cash-in-the bank at retirement. So if (When) NZ super becomes income or asset tested, you will do-your-dough.

I have written a quick application to allow you to work out your Kiwisaver returns. Its been rushed through.. so bug report if you need to.. I can't post it as its an .EXE but I will email it if you want to find out how rich you wont be.

EDIT - here http://www.eslnz.com/kiwi.zip

Download. Copy to a directory of your choice, and unzip. Run Kiwi.exe and put in the numbers that apply for you.
Cry, if you cannot get out of kiwisaver.

[SMOKEU]

The bottom line is to never get married.

[Forest]

The bottom line is to never get married.

No. You just need to ensure that your relationships never exceed three years. This includes defacto relationships.

Otherwise the gold-diggers are entitled to take half of your assets.

[Genie]

No. You just need to ensure that your relationships never exceed three years. This includes defacto relationships.

Otherwise the gold-diggers are entitled to take half of your assets.

Save pain all round....dont have relationships.

[Oakie]

1. There is no guarantee of returns. And I challenge ANY investment advisor to name a fund that has EVER existed that has averaged an inflation adjusted return more than 4% after tax. .

You're thinking about it the wrong way. I'm getting a 100% return on my KiwiSaver contributions because I'm taking what my employer contributes as my return (2% each). Any actual growth on the total is just a cherry on the top. I'd defy you to find any normal investment to match that!

[hellokitty]

No. You just need to ensure that your relationships never exceed three years. This includes defacto relationships.

Otherwise the gold-diggers are entitled to take half of your assets.

as Pdath said - do a contracting out agreement or as I did, a pre-nup.
My bike, My house, My stuff - His large super/life insurance, his bikes, his debts.
Easy........
If either dies and we are still married, then we get each others stuff unless specified, if we split we keep our stuff.

My kiwisaver is hardly anything as my boss doesn't pay the IRD - he deducts it from the staff (along with student loans and PAYE) and doesn't pay it to the IRD

[MadDuck]

My kiwisaver is hardly anything as my boss doesn't pay the IRD - he deducts it from the staff (along with student loans and PAYE) and doesn't pay it to the IRD

Now THAT got my attention. I am guessing he is open to the IRD taking him down then?

Oh and personally I think KiwiSaver is not for everyone. Take that 2% or 4% and put it towards paying off your mortgage....

[bane]

Oh and personally I think KiwiSaver is not for everyone. Take that 2% or 4% and put it towards paying off your mortgage....


For the majority of people the return from kiwisaver far exceeds the benefit of (instead) putting that money into the mortgage.

Rationale:
mortgage rate = 7%, therefore I have to make a pretax return of 10+% to justify investing funds rather than paying off mortgage.

Kiwisaver @2%
1. employer must match it
2. government pays $1000 at startup, and then (for those who contribute at least $1040 per year), gives a tax credit of $1040 per annum.
3. there is a chance the fund im invested in makes a positive return

e.g. lets say 2% of my earnings is $1050/annum (taxable)
1. $1050 from employer (tax exempt)
2. $1040 in tax credits from government
3. $42 from investment (say 2% after tax and fees)

at end of year 1, my kiwisaver for a $1050 investment is worth ~$2800
after year 2, my kiwisaver, for a $2100 investment is worth ~$5700

even if my fund provider has a -5% return, the overall return is many times the benefit of putting that money towards the mortgage.

[davereid]

even if my fund provider has a -5% return, the overall return is many times the benefit of putting that money towards the mortgage.

Your sums look great at small contributions. But things go pasty very quickly with even moderate inflation.

Except that its likely that your house is going up in value at a rate significantly faster than the rate of inflation.

And you have to live somewhere. Contributing to your mortgage is therefore not "dead" money, you will either be doing that or paying rent.

Take the following :

The following assumptions have been made in this calculation
You will be in Kiwisaver for 40 Years
Your commencing annual pay before tax is $26000
You contribute 2% of your pay, and your employer contributes 2%
We expect annual inflation of 4%, and wage growth of 4%
You will pay fees of 0.2% of your fund balance every year, and your PIE Tax rate is 21%
You have a start balance of $1000 from the Government.
You also get your contribution matched by Government to a max of $1024 a year.
You will pay Tax on your PIE

EDIT.. Bloody hard to read the printout as KB has removed line tabs... but it can be followed with a bit of care.

Year 1 and 2 look very much like your calculations :

Year 1 calculation :
Year 1 Gross Pay is $26000

CREDITS DEBITS BALANCE
Start Balance $1000
Your Contributions $520
Your Employers Contribution $520
Your Governments Contribution $520
Fund Growth ie interest earned $71.2
Fund administration Fees $2.14
Tax at PIE Rate on interest earned $14.5
Your New Balance $2614.55
Real Balance after adjusting buying power for inflation $2509.97
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your END OF YEAR 1 KiwiSaver Balance in todays dollars $2509.97
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wage Growth $1040
Your New Gross Pay $27040
Inflation adjustment (adjusts back to your real buying power) $1081
Your New Gross Pay in todays money $25958.4
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Year 2 calculation :
Year 2 Gross Pay is $25958.4

CREDITS DEBITS BALANCE
Start Balance $2509.97
Your Contributions $519.16
Your Employers Contribution $519.16
Your Governments Contribution $519.16
Fund Growth ie interest earned $131.54
Fund administration Fees $5.28
Tax at PIE Rate on interest earned $26.51
Your New Balance $4167.22
Real Balance after adjusting buying power for inflation $4000.53
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your END OF YEAR 2 KiwiSaver Balance in todays dollars $4000.53
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wage Growth $1038
Your New Gross Pay $26996.73
Inflation adjustment (adjusts back to your real buying power) $1079
Your New Gross Pay in todays money $25916.86


But by year 40 ( If you get there)

Year 40 calculation :
Year 40 Gross Pay is $24425.56

CREDITS DEBITS BALANCE
Start Balance $47345.79
Your Contributions $488.51
Your Employers Contribution $488.51
Your Governments Contribution $488.51
Fund Growth ie interest earned $1923.14
Fund administration Fees $98.53
Tax at PIE Rate on interest earned $383.16
Your New Balance $50252.76
Real Balance after adjusting buying power for inflation $48242.65
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your END OF YEAR 40 KiwiSaver Balance in todays dollars $48242.65


I bet your house has gone up in value by more than that.

And I bet you have saved more in interest by paying your mortgage back faster.

[aprilia_RS250]

Kiwisaver IMHO is best avoided, here is my take on it.

The Good.
You get $1000 to start off.
You get an employer subsidy.
You get tax credits.

The Bad
1. There is no guarantee of returns. And I challenge ANY investment advisor to name a fund that has EVER existed that has averaged an inflation adjusted return more than 4% after tax. But you don't have to be an investment advisor to name dozens of investment companies that have gone broke.
2. If you are in the 65% of people who have more than one life partner you will do-half-your-dough
3. While you can take-a-break, the fees don't take one.
4. Kiwisaver changes the age of joint retirement for a couple from when the OLDEST becomes 65 to when the YOUNGEST becomes 65.
5. You can't get the money until you reach the age of 65 (or older if the GMint changes it). So you can't choose an earlier retirement age, even if you have saved millions of dollars.
6. You will have cash-in-the bank at retirement. So if (When) NZ super becomes income or asset tested, you will do-your-dough.

I have written a quick application to allow you to work out your Kiwisaver returns. Its been rushed through.. so bug report if you need to.. I can't post it as its an .EXE but I will email it if you want to find out how rich you wont be.

EDIT - here http://www.eslnz.com/kiwi.zip

Download. Copy to a directory of your choice, and unzip. Run Kiwi.exe and put in the numbers that apply for you.
Cry, if you cannot get out of kiwisaver.

1. Many financial companies that went broke have nothing to do with kiwisaver, many of them took deposits from peoples savings and gave them to shifty property developers.
2. Seems to be sad but true
3. You're still earning returns on your balance hence you should be paying fees
4. Didn't know this...
5. Yes you can, if you're buying your first home, sickness, extreme financial distress.
6. Still not a valid reason not to go into kiwisaver, it's pure speculation.

Have a look at your average aussie how they're set up for retirement. 9% super, which includes 9% from employer, they'll have a very comfortable retirement. One of my mates there told me his super is ~50k, he's only 24. Another 40 years of work that balance should be 7 digits easy.

[avgas]

News that kiwisaver might become compulsory has made me think about things and do a bit of searching... Only searching I ever do involves bikes but this intrigued me.

Just found out if you're in the process of a divorce and your partner has never worked, i.e. they have no kiwisaver they may be subject to receiving half of your kiwisaver balance!!! That's just fucking bananas! :wacko:

Not letting anyone see my kiwisaver balance, doesn't exist!:shifty:
Do you have student loan?
Mortgage?
A smart lawyer/Accountant combination will get you off paying anything your not suppose to pay.

They are entitled to half the total value (bottom line). If you have 20K student loan and 10K kiwi-saver..... she gets nothing.

I had a similar predicament while studying with my partner - had 10K in the bank, but 55K student loan. Letter was written up that the 10K was to help pay the 55K student loan (lawyer), the accountant did the balance sheet showing net value of -45K.

Same thing with Kiwi-saver. She can have half - but she has to take half the debt too.
Of course those of you who own a home, have kiwi-saver and have no debt.....your fucked.

I have been with my wife for 9 years now. So if she left and took the money.......I wouldn't give a fuck about the money.

[Pixie]

I love all this "the government pays...."
Your poor fucking fellow taxpayer pays

[JMemonic]

You're thinking about it the wrong way. I'm getting a 100% return on my KiwiSaver contributions because I'm taking what my employer contributes as my return (2% each). Any actual growth on the total is just a cherry on the top. I'd defy you to find any normal investment to match that!

Hmm likening that way of thinking, given the govt contribution and the employers it makes for a great return.

[Swoop]

No. You just need to ensure that your relationships never exceed three years. This includes defacto relationships.

Otherwise the gold-diggers are entitled to take half of your assets.
Damn right.
Get an agreement sorted. IF it turns pear-shaped, that is not the time to be negotiating agreements. People do stupid shit at breakup time.

[p.dath]

as Pdath said - do a contracting out agreement or as I did, a pre-nup.

Is a pre-nup still legally enforceable after the changes to the property (relationships) act?

[hellokitty]

Now THAT got my attention. I am guessing he is open to the IRD taking him down then?

Oh and personally I think KiwiSaver is not for everyone. Take that 2% or 4% and put it towards paying off your mortgage....

the IRD has been informed :yes: but it was only a matter of time before they did him anyway

[hellokitty]

Is a pre-nup still legally enforceable after the changes to the property (relationships) act?

We were doing a contracting out agreement but then we got engaged (and married 6 months later) so it was changed to an "agreement for the purpose of contracting out of the property (relationships) act in contemplation of marriage"

My husband felt that my home should be protected and he wanted everyone (parents) to know that.

[pete376403]

Can't help but wonder what state the countries economy would be like now if Muldoon hadn't bribed the electorate with promises of "non contributory superannuation" and wrecked the super scheme that was set up by the Kirk government in 1974.

Hmm, somebody else was wondering the same thing and wrote " This week, a friend gave me a copy of a brilliant piece written by Brian Gaynor and published in the New Zealand Herald almost exactly three years ago. Gaynor regards Muldoon’s abandonment of Labour’s far-sighted and ahead-of-its-time superannuation scheme, set up in 1974, as the worst decision taken by any New Zealand government in the past 40 years.

Muldoon campaigned on abolishing the scheme in the 1975 election. He said it would turn us into a Soviet clone. Hence the Cossacks on television. The Yacht Squadrons reeled in horror.

It worked a treat. Rowling was gone and, true to his word, Muldoon abolished the scheme some weeks later. But what stupidity.

Gaynor works out that if we had stuck with the scheme, New Zealand would now be “an Antipodean Tiger”.

The superannuation scheme would conservatively be worth $240 billion. In other words, we would have savings enough to swim in. We would be flooded with money.

It was a good scheme. Employees and bosses between them put 8 per cent of your gross income into it. Everybody owned their own individual accounts. The scheme had nice flexibility. When you retired you could cash in a sum to reward yourself, take a trip, whatever, but you kept the rest as a pension. Sounds quite modern when you look back.

And that conservative figure of $240 billion, writes Gaynor, would represent 150 per cent of our GDP, whereas Australia’s super scheme represents only 82 per cent of GDP. (Only? We should be so unlucky!) We would have led the world in savings."
http://www.thestandard.org.nz/compulsory-super-savings-welcome-but/

Just one of the reasons I'll not trust a National government again.

[rustic101]

Just found out if you're in the process of a divorce and your partner has never worked, :

I had to borrow half my GSFs value to pay my ex wife out lol... and the B'arch still got the house - Life aye.

Thats more interesting is that the Retirement Commission strongly advise individuals with debt to pay this off before saving due to interest etc. I would suggest looking at the stats that most Kiwis have large debts and therefore should be paying that off.

I personally am not into forced savings. The Govt are forcing you into an unsecured risk that is not guaranteed or supported. Lets face it most funds are losing money hand over fist.

Personally I tuck my money away each week into Bonus Bonds. A few reasons, like avoiding tax etc plus while not guaranteed the risk of the Trust collapsing is extremely small in comparison with general savings funds.

[pete376403]

Im in KS, mainly because I need the compulsion to save. The $10K that has built up in the first year or so is far more than I have ever managed to save, at any time. That it gets taken out of pay before I see it, allied with not being able to easily get at it, means there is a chance it will be worth something come retirement.

[Oakie]

Oh here then, have some real figures to chew over:

I joined KiwiSaver on 16 April 2009

By 31 March 2010:
I had put in $913.82
My closing balance was $2089.09.

The closing figure included fees and interest but excluding the one off $1000 start up sweetener. (so closing bal was really $3089.09)

By my maths this is a return of 129%

To date I've put in $1370 of my own money and my balance is at just under $5000. You just can't convince me that KiwiSaver is a bad thing. Sure, there's a chance that something bad could happen to the provider I've chosen but there is a deal of protection there so I'm quite comfortable.

[Okey Dokey]

I don't like the idea of government compulsion, myself. It seems they grab enough of our income through all the bloody taxes and rates without taking control of more of my money. If I want to save I will do it myself on my own terms. I'd rather have the freedom to access my money when I wish, and not have to wait until I am 65, or whatever age they decide I can have it.

To me, having this freedom is worth turning down their $1000 startup and ongoing contributions.

My 2 cents.

[oldrider]

I recommend Gareth Morgan investments. He is my providor and also a motorcyclist.

Gareth Morgan is a motorcyclist by "default"...it is his wife "Jo" that is the "real motorcyclist" and the inspirational driver behind their motorcycle adventures! :shifty:

Funny how she is portrayed as the follower, just because she is a woman, sexist bastards! :mellow:

[Bald Eagle]

Sure, there's a chance that something bad could happen to the provider I've chosen but there is a deal of protection there so I'm quite comfortable.

There's no protection there. As various Govt's have shown in the past, if they don't like the way it's going they change the rules. I wouldn't expect any return from Kiwisaver by the time the current young generation get to 'pension collection age" All you are doing is giving this and future Govt's an interest free loan for the rest of your working live.

[davereid]

To date I've put in $1370 of my own money and my balance is at just under $5000. You just can't convince me that KiwiSaver is a bad thing. Sure, there's a chance that something bad could happen to the provider I've chosen but there is a deal of protection there so I'm quite comfortable.

Kiwisaver is not a bad thing. It is just not as good a thing as it is promoted as being.

I don't think its the best use of your money, by a long, long shot. But as others have commented, they would otherwise be spending their money on wine, women and song. (Another great investment in my opinion.)

Your sums about your investment return to date, are entirely correct. It has, in percentage terms performed really well for you.

But lets imagine you had started in kiwisaver 20 years ago, and your balance is $250,000.

Your contribution = $915
Your employer = $915
Tax credits = $915
Fund Growth ? Who knows ? Historically it will be minimal, maybe 4%

Fund Growth = $10,000
Less Tax leaves $7900
Less Fees leaves $7400

New Balance = $ 260145

Reduce to allow for inflation @ 3.5% (IMHO a conservative figure given history)

New Real Balance = $251,039.

Thats not a spectacular return. But its still better than a kick in the head !

The issue is the great unknowns. The major one is inflation.

The key rule is that in times of high inflation, the person who controls assets will win.
The person who owns cash will lose.

An example..

In 1972 my mum built a brand new house. Nice location near the beach, 3/4 acre section, 4 bedrooms, brick and tile. It cost $5000. An absolute fortune, about 4 times her annual wage.

In two years time, the $4000 mortgage will be paid off.

For the first 5 years, the mortgage plus rates and insurance were much higher than renting, with mum spitting out a massive 50% of her take home pay on the $10 a week mortgage. The next 5, it was about the same as renters. For the last 30, mums house has been appreciating in value, while all her outgoings were reducing as a percentage of her wage. But she still paid $10 a week mortgage.

Mum has lived cheaply for 30 years. Paid no tax on her appreciating asset. And could now subdivide, or sell and move to a smaller home, banking hundreds of thousands of dollar in the process.

Compare to the man who put his $5000 in an investment. Even a really good one, paying say 10% and paying tax at the super low PIE rate.

He would have $104,000 in the bank today.

What if he had added the $500 a year mum was paying in mortgage repayments ?

Well first, he would have struggled.

As he had to live somewhere, he would be paying rent.

But assuming he could do that, then he would have a whopping $240,000.

So IMHO Kiwisaver may be a good idea if you don't have a clue about managing money. But if you do, then you may find that simply buying your own home, and clearing the debt quickly is a better bet.

The other thing to remember is that all the calculation we have done about kiwisaver assume that the governments tax credit will rise every year by the rate of inflation. So far it has not, and I am not aware of any commitment from Government to increase it.

So the kiwisaver returns calculated are higher than you will actually get.

[Oakie]

There's no protection there. As various Govt's have shown in the past, if they don't like the way it's going they change the rules. I wouldn't expect any return from Kiwisaver by the time the current young generation get to 'pension collection age" All you are doing is giving this and future Govt's an interest free loan for the rest of your working live.

I meant 'protection' provided by my provider as part of the scheme, not Government protection. Any KiwiSaver scheme is only as good as it's provider and mine has some protection for me if things go badly for them. (Research your provider people!)

[avgas]

Just one of the reasons I'll not trust a [insert emotive sounding name I should vote for] government again.
Fixed it for you

[HenryDorsetCase]

News that kiwisaver might become compulsory has made me think about things and do a bit of searching... Only searching I ever do involves bikes but this intrigued me.

Just found out if you're in the process of a divorce and your partner has never worked, i.e. they have no kiwisaver they may be subject to receiving half of your kiwisaver balance!!! That's just fucking bananas! :wacko:

Not letting anyone see my kiwisaver balance, doesn't exist!:shifty:

If you are going through a contested dissolution process, you will be unable to prevent the other side finding out those details. Kiwisaver would be one of the easy ones to find to be honest.

This principle is entirely consistent with the principles of the Property (Relationships) Act 1976. It applies to most any asset of a relationship. there are some specified exceptions.

Its just not that big a deal.

[Mudfart]

my mum lost here super years ago, and before they offered to return it several years ago, she was already cold. 25 yrs worth of super.
unfortunately, when the economy gets tight, the grubbermint has trouble keeping the MP's greedy corrupt fat fingers off a bank balance that, currently, reads over 4.5 billion dollars.
Now imagine kiwisaver ledger in 5 more years, well over 10 billion!.
Good luck getting your kiwisaver when you get to retire.
If they make it compulsory for everyone (strangely enough government employees are exempt from HAVING to join), then surely they must secure the fund.
If they dont, its a call to arms.

[davereid]

my mum lost here super years ago, and before they offered to return it several years ago, she was already cold. 25 yrs worth of super.
unfortunately, when the economy gets tight, the grubbermint has trouble keeping the MP's greedy corrupt fat fingers off a bank balance that, currently, reads over 4.5 billion dollars.
Now imagine kiwisaver ledger in 5 more years, well over 10 billion!.
Good luck getting your kiwisaver when you get to retire.
If they make it compulsory for everyone (strangely enough government employees are exempt from HAVING to join), then surely they must secure the fund.
If they dont, its a call to arms.

I think what will happen is..

1. Kiwi-saver will be made compulsory
2. The Government Tax credit can then be removed, or more likely just left un-increased, as it will soon be an insignificant amount.
3. The existing NZ Super will remain to cover the very few who don't have a Kiwisaver account, due to never working. But it will be asset and income tested.

So you will end up exactly where you are now. Its only that you will pay 4% more of your pay to get there.

[Oakie]

Now imagine kiwisaver ledger in 5 more years, well over 10 billion!.
Good luck getting your kiwisaver when you get to retire.

The thing is though it's not vested in the government. It's in the hands of investment companies to the Gov't can't do anything the KiwiSaver funds just as they can't do anything to funds invested in non-KiwiSaver investments.

[davereid]

The thing is though it's not vested in the government. It's in the hands of investment companies to the Gov't can't do anything the KiwiSaver funds just as they can't do anything to funds invested in non-KiwiSaver investments.

Various governments have simply Nationalised private assets in the past.

I don't think that would happen to your Kiwisaver portfolio.

But I could see the government changing the PIE rate to obtain more tax, introducing a financial transaction tax, or making you pay death or gift duty on your balance should you die before 65. These are all things that have been proposed already.

[2wheeldrifter]

No. You just need to ensure that your relationships never exceed three years. This includes defacto relationships.

Otherwise the gold-diggers are entitled to take half of your assets.

Think you will find thats it's 2 years.... so if your over the 2 year mark now dude your castrated :yes:

[reofix]

"You're thinking about it the wrong way. I'm getting a 100% return on my KiwiSaver contributions because I'm taking what my employer contributes as my return (2% each). Any actual growth on the total is just a cherry on the top. I'd defy you to find any normal investment to match that! "


WRONG....That 2 % has already been taken from your wage increases by your boss

[reofix]

I have a bit of savings lying around and wondered if you would be interested in a profit sharing arrangement . Bank term deposit rate guaranteed (current location of money ) and a 50/ 50 split on profits above that .. no fees . Just trying to find an advisor who believes in his own advice. Not expecting to be rushed off my feet

[MadDuck]

Just trying to find an advisor who believes in his own advice. Not expecting to be rushed off my feet

Dont hold your breath you might explode.

Theres been more $ and scenarios than I can be bothered responding to. You have to look at YOUR own cricumstances and decides what is best for YOU.

A single chick with a nominal mortgage and no siblings will look at this totally different to a bloke with a wife and dependants. I die tomorrow and what a bloody waste of money it was investing in KS. I could have gone and spent that enjoying life.

[Oakie]

WRONG....That 2 % has already been taken from your wage increases by your boss

Ha ha. NO! I guess there will be some employers out there that did that but not mine. As Human Resources/Payroll dude I saw the figures, was part of the process and know that my employer took the hit on the chin.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Ha ha. NO! I guess there will be some employers out there that did that but not mine. As Human Resources/Payroll dude I saw the figures, was part of the process and know that my employer took the hit on the chin.

so did we. When we said to the staff "We will chuck in the extra" it was tax deductible to us, but then it was changed so it wasnt. I love politicians.

[davereid]

Ha ha. NO! I guess there will be some employers out there that did that but not mine. As Human Resources/Payroll dude I saw the figures, was part of the process and know that my employer took the hit on the chin.

That of course is not a "win".

As your employer has to be competitive in the "global environment" that our political masters are so fond of, long term it is just part of your pay.

For one year, maybe two its an issue for your employer. It may have been enough, when coupled with the increase in the minimum adult wage, to close a few businesses. But those that survive, don't actually care about your take home pay.

An employer is interested in labour cost, per unit of production.

Not because he is a capitalist prick.

Simply because he is not a charity.

Most Kiwi Businesses are Mom-and-Pop operations. If the money they got from mortgaging the home does not get repaid, they are stuffed.

So, if making widgets in Manakau can't be done economically, they will lose their home and look for something else.

You get to look for a new job. That Fat National chick on the telly gets to make some new excuses about unemployment.

And someone else gets the job.

[Oakie]

That of course is not a "win".

As your employer has to be competitive in the "global environment" that our political masters are so fond of, long term it is just part of your pay. .

Ah, it was your assumption that was wrong. I work for a not-for-profit largly funded through a Ministry of Health contract. The year in question our funding was increased 2.5% and we increased wages 2.5%. Obviously then, wages were increased to the full extent possible under the contract increase given. To be honest I did do a wee exercise around the then new KiwiSaver to see if we could mitigate the damage somehow but when I presented it the GM just said not to worry ... "we'll take the hit"

[Hoon]

To date I've put in $1370 of my own money and my balance is at just under $5000. You just can't convince me that KiwiSaver is a bad thing. Sure, there's a chance that something bad could happen to the provider I've chosen but there is a deal of protection there so I'm quite comfortable.

Same, I'm getting ridiculous returns on my kiwisaver after posting on here a few years ago (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/56358-KiwiSaver-advice) - funny that thread has the same people still saying the same things. Like you I'm not too fused about what the naysayers say, their loss after all. You could argue til the sun goes down about the best way to invest your money. All of them have risks - just diversify. Like I have a house, shares, term deposits, savings, assets and now kiwisaver too.


WRONG....That 2 % has already been taken from your wage increases by your boss

Sorry your boss is a cock if he's doing that. I'm still getting paid the same as the guy working next to me who isn't on kiwisaver. In fact those that approve my pay raises don't even consider my kiwisaver status, because they're probably on it as well.

[Hoon]

With the new budget the government has pulled in the reins on the Kiwisaver giveaway. Yeah I'm a little pissed missing out on a free $500 a year but still I'm glad I got my slice of the action while it lasted. Also feel a little for the employer who is also taking a bit more of a hit.

While the scheme is still attractive, it is no longer a no brainer (for me anyway) and John Key is dreaming if he thinks it'll still have the same appeal as before. I'm guessing this is just a precursor to making Kiwisaver compulsory sometime in the near future when they'll probably chop back the $1000 quick start as well.

[oneofsix]

With the new budget the government has pulled in the reins on the Kiwisaver giveaway. Yeah I'm a little pissed missing out on a free $500 a year but still I'm glad I got my slice of the action while it lasted. Also feel a little for the employer who is also taking a bit more of a hit.

While the scheme is still attractive, it is no longer a no brainer (for me anyway) and John Key is dreaming if he thinks it'll still have the same appeal as before. I'm guessing this is just a precursor to making Kiwisaver compulsory sometime in the near future when they'll probably chop back the $1000 quick start as well.

compulsory? Now that would be a good earner for the private companies running Kiwisaver.

[Bald Eagle]

compulsory? Now that would be a good earner for the private companies running Kiwisaver.

Well I still think it's a bit of a joke, i "opted out" on my employers paperwork when I started my current job, the tax man sent me a letter saying I couldn't opt out 'cos i'd already been auto opted in when I had a part time job.

My employer doesn't take kiwisaver out of may pay check, the govt put my $1000 in and everybodys happy :lol:

[Bald Eagle]

compulsory? Now that would be a good earner for the private companies running Kiwisaver.

It already is if you're not quick enough to opt out on your first employment. If you miss that one time opportunity you're screwed.

[oneofsix]

It already is if you're not quick enough to opt out on your first employment. If you miss that one time opportunity you're screwed.

True, then all you can do is keep changing scheme providers but I guess its a bit like the old DVD regions, limited number of changes allowed.

[racefactory]

The bottom line is to never get married.

That's right, don't give in to the bitches. Unless they are willing to accept sodomy in monogamy.

[Smifffy]

I have work super, and had avoided kiwisaver because I thought it would be a political football.

Halfway through the Nats reign, and it looked to me like they were going to maintain the status quo, and it would be largely exempt from political tampering.

I joined at the beginning of this year :facepalm:

[avgas]

That's right, don't give in to the bitches. Unless they are willing to accept sodomy in monogamy.
I personally would not marry a woman that want to fuck me in the arse.
Its bad enough dealing with the government

[Gremlin]

I don't like the idea of government compulsion, myself. It seems they grab enough of our income through all the bloody taxes and rates without taking control of more of my money. If I want to save I will do it myself on my own terms. I'd rather have the freedom to access my money when I wish, and not have to wait until I am 65, or whatever age they decide I can have it.

To me, having this freedom is worth turning down their $1000 startup and ongoing contributions.

My 2 cents.
Wot she sed.

They fuck up with all the money they already have, I ain't giving any more. I'll manage my own money thanks.

[jim.cox]

Wot she sed.

They fuck up with all the money they already have, I ain't giving any more. I'll manage my own money thanks.

Yeah - me too

I just dont trust the pricks - even more so given the latest budget fidling

And a free grand when I'm old enough to retire (hah!) isnt going to sway that opinion

[RDJ]

Ah, it was your assumption that was wrong. I work for a not-for-profit largly funded through a Ministry of Health contract. The year in question our funding was increased 2.5% and we increased wages 2.5%. Obviously then, wages were increased to the full extent possible under the contract increase given. To be honest I did do a wee exercise around the then new KiwiSaver to see if we could mitigate the damage somehow but when I presented it the GM just said not to worry ... "we'll take the hit"

We need to reflect reality here IMO

I work for a not-for-profit largly funded through a Ministry of Health contract
=
largely funded by taxpayers

when I presented it the GM just said not to worry ... "we'll take the hit"
=
"not to worry, we'll get the taxpayers to take the hit"

[phill-k]

Absolutely normal, as for all matrimonial property.

Don't let this stop you joining Kiwisaver though.

It is imperative that you join, get $1000 from the Govt for doing so, a yearly subsidy on your fees and a nest egg when you turn 65.

Just watch who you choose as your provider.
Most of them put your money into unit trusts which makes more money for the provider than you.

I recommend Gareth Morgan investments. He is my providor and also a motorcyclist.

Check out the various providers ratings morgan only rates in the middle, there are much better providers out there

[AllanB]

I'm a motorcyclists - I'll look after your money.....:innocent:

[Smifffy]

Check out the various providers ratings morgan only rates in the middle, there are much better providers out there


Where may one find the rankings?

[Smifffy]

I'm a motorcyclists - I'll look after your money.....:innocent:

Nah, your hornet is over 750 therefore, according to the other thread, you are a biker, lolz.

[Owl]

Even if it wasn't for my employer saying "If you join Kiwisaver, you can kiss your end of year bonus goodbye", I still wouldn't join!

I've already had one investment plan go bad because of government interference and money that was "Yours when you want it", was no longer available to me.:facepalm: With the shit fight that followed, I got my money, but only after it had reached the top of the chain.:sweatdrop. I swore never again!:angry:

[phill-k]

Where may one find the rankings?

Read them all on line about a month ago, I'll do a search later and try and find them again.

[Smifffy]

Read them all on line about a month ago, I'll do a search later and try and find them again.

Choice. Thanks.