It's all relative

[tamarillo]

Been on a binge of reading bike mags – both new and piles from second hand shops as I travel around country…

And it occurs to me, again, that riding another bike simply allows you to compare with what you know, and if you are not in the industry that usually means what you ride. If like me you ride relatively old equipment (just got newest bike ever – a ’96 Trophy) you have no other benchmark so anything newer will have significant improvements. (Working on generalisations here.)

Where I am going with this is that this Trophy was known in its day as somewhat top heavy and slow on turn in, something that later Triumph models improved with newer designs of frames etc. If therefore I rode a new Sprint and then got off onto my old Trophy I would probably dislike it. BUT I DON”T. To me it is what it is, and yes it is a wee bit top heavy, and that is okay.
Same with power. The old Triple gained substantial horsepower and smoothness I believe. But this is the most powerful thing I have ever had so I am happy as.

In 1973, when I started riding, Bonnevilles were considered powerful and fast with less than 50hp. A Ducati GT (60hp) was just out of this world. Honda’s new 750 (70hp) was ridiculous. When Kawasaki bought out the 900 (79hp) that was considered over the top and simply silly buy many. We were mostly happy with the power we had.

A proviso – on the tyres and frames we had then I for one would not have wanted any more horsepower so to some extent power, tyres, suspension, frames, have all improved incrementally. Also, obviously these much older bikes were lighter but we now have less weight and more power each year.

I therefore suggest that at any given time the mix of these elements are mostly dead on. Therefore my ’96 bike cannot be seen, by me, as inadequate.

Yet every road test in a new mag tells me this one is better than last years and boy you gotta have it. Maybe we are too guilty of acquiescence to the great American dream of Planned Obsolescence and think we must always have the latest greatest.

I think I need to stop reading so many new bike mags! Anyone got some ’90’s issues with my Trophy in to sell?

[george formby]

I recently read a group test in the UK performance bikes of 04/05 super sports (R1, GSXR etc) all around the $8000 price range. The conclusion was that their was bugger all difference in usable power & handling to the latest models. ABS & traction control / engine mapping is the biggest step forward since disc brakes IMHO, not power or handling.
In the same mag they were stripping a ton of weight off a Triumph 955i if that is of interest to you.

[tamarillo]

'ABS & traction control / engine mapping is the biggest step forward since disc brakes IMHO, not power or handling.'

Not sure on that. Maybe fair to say that these electronics are biggest step of last decade? before that my sense was the improvements in brakes, tyres, chassis etc and maybe usable power?
'

[george formby]

That is what has changed incrementally with each new model release, a little bit better every year. Even class changing bikes like the original fireblade were really just a "bit" more powerful, lighter, better handling. The new tech means a numpty like me can jump on a S1000RR & not be caking it. Prior to this all the Super bikes from the 70's on needed caution for whatever reason.
I agree with your post though the best bike you have ever ridden is just that, until you get a better one. Personally I doubt that I would be able to give an educated critique on any sports bike produced in the last 10 years, I can't ride hard enough to spot the difference.
Less focused bikes are more subjective, I love my TDM 850 but the newer 900 doe's not press my buttons for a number of subtle reasons & their is not a huge difference in the bikes.

[SMOKEU]

20 years ago the 250cc bikes were much quicker than the new ones are today. Talk about taking a few steps back!

[slofox]

I made a jump of over twenty years in evolution when I bought an 07 SVS and then moved to an 08 gixxer.

Have to say that I still have yet to catch up to the new technology and maybe never will. What used to be "riding on the limit" on a 70's or 80's bike is nowhere near that now.

All the same, I wouldn't like to go back...newtoysnewtoysnewtoys...:devil2:

[tamarillo]

20 years ago the 250cc bikes were much quicker than the new ones are today. Talk about taking a few steps back!

well yes sort of...but you could not ride them smoothly at as high a speed over distance safetly! All the developments in brakes, chassis, suspension, etc etc have meant more REAL speed on real roads surely!
Genie from this 'ere forum on her little kawasaki 250 can keep good constant road speed up and I don't believe she could on a 20 yr old 250...

[SMOKEU]

well yes sort of...but you could not ride them smoothly at as high a speed over distance safetly! All the developments in brakes, chassis, suspension, etc etc have meant more REAL speed on real roads surely!
Genie from this 'ere forum on her little kawasaki 250 can keep good constant road speed up and I don't believe she could on a 20 yr old 250...

I've raced a Hyosung GT250R that my mate owns, and he can't keep up with me at all. If he's right behind me at 100kmh, and then I full pin it up to 180kmh, he's at least 1km behind me. Same goes for those Ninja 250s.

My CBR can easily hold more speed for longer distances safely (till I run out of fuel) than any of the new 250s.

[Goblin]

I've raced a Hyosung GT250R that my mate owns, and he can't keep up with me at all. If he's right behind me at 100kmh, and then I full pin it up to 180kmh, he's at least 1km behind me. Same goes for those Ninja 250s.

My CBR can easily hold more speed for longer distances safely (till I run out of fuel) than any of the new 250s.WTF are you doing racing on the road??? Slow down Rossi!

[SMOKEU]

WTF are you doing racing on the road??? Slow down Rossi!

Where else am I meant to race? Don't say a 'race track' because I can't afford that, I'm lucky if I can even scrape up the cash for petrol.

[Goblin]

Then get a job!

[aprilia_RS250]

Where else am I meant to race? Don't say a 'race track' because I can't afford that, I'm lucky if I can even scrape up the cash for petrol.


Any 2 smoker over 150cc would eat your cbr for breakfast.

Also riding at 180km/h in a straight line is not racing, a honda odyssey goes faster than that. So I wouldn't feel special if you can beat the 250 hyos and kwakas.

[Bren]

The biggest concern I have over ABS, Traction Control and a host of other "ride by wire" improvements is they are constantly "dumbing down" the experience. I was having this conversation with my boss just the other day whilst we were talking of the DN-01...

Sure they are improvements in one light, but they also do the thinking for you to a degree....Lets just say you hopped off a brand new bike with all the bells and whistles onto something a bit older, for arguments sake you went from the DN-01 to a Yamaha XS 1.1....It would be like hopping onto a monster!
The older bikes its more about being in tune with the bike and feeling it than these modern things...ya gotta know how to ride, how to deliver the power and how to brake...you dont have a computer working it out for you....And I am not going to mention the earlier ones still where you had to advance and retard the spark etc whilst riding...

Bells and whistles are nice, but to me they are taking a litte out of riding too!!!

Give me an older bike any day!

[tamarillo]

Bells and whistles are nice, but to me they are taking a litte out of riding too!!!

Give me an older bike any day!

Tend to agree. Though would like ABS.

But are we just holding ourselves back and underestimating ourselves. Surely one would learn a new set of skills riding a modern bike with all these gizmos - are there not still senses to find and limits to approach just at a higher level and therefore speed? And there goes my arguement - if I should only corner at a speed at which I can stop within the space I can see - I don't see how I would approach a limit on our roads with one of these bikes!

I get to drive new rental cars a lot - very latest Modeo and Mazda 6 are stunningly good drives, but to test and enjoy them I drive frankly too fast for the roads...at any acceptable speeds they are so good as to be unchallenging. They flatter ordinary skill. Can the same be said of a new Multistrada?

[SMOKEU]

Any 2 smoker over 150cc would eat your cbr for breakfast.



Bullshit. Many of them would, but not all.

[Paws]

My biggest concern with all the new electronics is what happens if they fail. I have had ABS fail on me in my car and the result was no brakes at all for a few seconds then an instant lock up of the brakes, hate to think what would happen if ABS failed on a bike while i was riding it

[tamarillo]

I HOPE that they have thought of this and merely one loses ABS - I know on early Bemmers many ride around with abs lights on and they work fine just no ABS.

[shafty]

Been on a binge of reading bike mags – both new and piles from second hand shops as I travel around country…

And it occurs to me, again, that riding another bike simply allows you to compare with what you know, and if you are not in the industry that usually means what you ride. If like me you ride relatively old equipment (just got newest bike ever – a ’96 Trophy) you have no other benchmark so anything newer will have significant improvements. (Working on generalisations here.)

Where I am going with this is that this Trophy was known in its day as somewhat top heavy and slow on turn in, something that later Triumph models improved with newer designs of frames etc. If therefore I rode a new Sprint and then got off onto my old Trophy I would probably dislike it. BUT I DON”T. To me it is what it is, and yes it is a wee bit top heavy, and that is okay.
Same with power. The old Triple gained substantial horsepower and smoothness I believe. But this is the most powerful thing I have ever had so I am happy as.

In 1973, when I started riding, Bonnevilles were considered powerful and fast with less than 50hp. A Ducati GT (60hp) was just out of this world. Honda’s new 750 (70hp) was ridiculous. When Kawasaki bought out the 900 (79hp) that was considered over the top and simply silly buy many. We were mostly happy with the power we had.

A proviso – on the tyres and frames we had then I for one would not have wanted any more horsepower so to some extent power, tyres, suspension, frames, have all improved incrementally. Also, obviously these much older bikes were lighter but we now have less weight and more power each year.

I therefore suggest that at any given time the mix of these elements are mostly dead on. Therefore my ’96 bike cannot be seen, by me, as inadequate.

Yet every road test in a new mag tells me this one is better than last years and boy you gotta have it. Maybe we are too guilty of acquiescence to the great American dream of Planned Obsolescence and think we must always have the latest greatest.

I think I need to stop reading so many new bike mags! Anyone got some ’90’s issues with my Trophy in to sell?

I know where you're coming from Tamarillo - was chatting just the other day with a Girlfriend about the new VFR1200.
I was telling her that a Mate test rode one and that he said "the power was amazing".

She replied, yes but "for how long?" ie how long til you take it for granted. Also, that it depends on what you've been riding previously.

This comes from a Girl who's last few bikes have been VFR800>CBR1000RR>Hayabusa GSX1300R!

So, yeah, I hear what you're sayin!

BTW, loved my 900 Trophy too - grouse bikes.........

[avgas]

My biggest concern with all the new electronics is what happens if they fail. I have had ABS fail on me in my car and the result was no brakes at all for a few seconds then an instant lock up of the brakes, hate to think what would happen if ABS failed on a bike while i was riding it
If your ABS fails in your car - the brakes fall back to a 'basic' mode.
Which means they work like normal brakes.
This was also found to happen with the "Problem Toyota's" in the states recently.
Bike would use the same principle.

I would get your car looked at - as chances are there is a jam up in the actual lines or a pump/valve control fault.

[tamarillo]

I know where you're coming from Tamarillo - was chatting just the other day with a Girlfriend about the new VFR1200.
I was telling her that a Mate test rode one and that he said "the power was amazing".

She replied, yes but "for how long?" ie how long til you take it for granted. Also, that it depends on what you've been riding previously.

This comes from a Girl who's last few bikes have been VFR800>CBR1000RR>Hayabusa GSX1300R!

So, yeah, I hear what you're sayin!

BTW, loved my 900 Trophy too - grouse bikes.........

Bloody hell that girl likes power...

[tamarillo]

remember when europe had self imposed 100 hp limit and know one built bike over it?