'Vale' V 'Ago'

[Big Dave]

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[Big Dave]

Agostini still has the numbers.

<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giacomo_Agostini">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giacomo_Agostini</a>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentino_Rossi">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valentino_Rossi</a>

[Jantar]

An interesting choice and probably not much in it, but Agostini could win his races even on a much inferior bike. So I'll go with ago. :yes:

[onearmedbandit]

The newer generations are always going to go with Rossi, as we have no real yardstick of what Ago's performance at the time was like.

Ago was the best of his time, and Rossi the best of his.

[Crasherfromwayback]

An interesting choice and probably not much in it, but Agostini could win his races even on a much inferior bike. So I'll go with ago. :yes:

I think you must mean (surely) that Ago had FAR superior equipment to his rivals a LOT of the time. Rossi hasn't had it so easy.

[trustme]

If it was Vale /Hailwood I'd have to think.
Ago was good but not in their league

There's lies, damn statistics & lies or somein't like that

[imdying]

Ago beat a lot of hicks who spent the night before racing getting wasted. Rossi has beaten all comers, most of which are top level sportsmen in their own right.

[Deano]

Ago beat a lot of hicks who spent the night before racing getting wasted. Rossi has beaten all comers, most of which are top level sportsmen in their own right.


Yeah but you have to remember that a Stoner beat Rossi one year.....:shutup:

[gatch]

Ago has competed at IOM. He has a JUMP named after him.

Rossi alluded to never wanting to ride there in competition.

Ago 1. Rossi 0.

Edit - Personally I don't think you can really compare the two, with the conditions of their respective victories being so different...

[=cJ=]

Ago was probably a bit before my time (in terms of interest in motorcycles at least) so it's a bit hard for me to say...

[Mental Trousers]

Ago has competed at IOM. He has a JUMP named after him.

Rossi alluded to never wanting to ride there in competition.

Ago 1. Rossi 0.

Edit - Personally I don't think you can really compare the two, with the conditions of their respective victories being so different...

Pretty much sums things up.

[imdying]

Yeah but you have to remember that a Stoner beat Rossi one year.....:shutup:He's a fast little bugger... but what about getting beaten by Hayden :laugh: Mind you, Ago was beaten by Barry Sheene.

Not wanting to ride the IOM just makes him saner.

[Motu]

Against all my hero worship,I'll have to go for Rossi.Ago had it stacked all on his side - most of the manufacturers dropped out of GP racing,and MV were left to just clean up at will.Ago was there,right place,right time.But his opponents were some of the best we have ever seen...will Stoner and Pedrosa be remembered in the same light as Hailwood and Read?

But most important is who came second to Agostini -

In 1970 2nd in the 500GP was Ginger Molloy...from NZ.

In 1971 2nd in the 500GP was Keith Turner...from NZ.

In 1973 2nd in the 500GP was Kim Newcombe...from NZ.

Where are the Kiwi's giving Rossi a fight and only coming 2nd?

[Big Dave]

will Stoner be remembered in the same light as Hailwood and Read?

2000 miles west - yes. Elsewhere - he'd need to comfortably win 2 or three more maybe.

One for you then; Will Mick be remembered in the same light as Hailwood?

[pete376403]

Agostini was good, yes but for most of his career he was on the factory MV when much of the competition was either Manx Nortons or 350 Yamahas. (and the odd Bultaco, or Konig) After he left MV and went to Yamaha, and other riders were also getting access to Yamaha 500s, things evened out a bit.
In Rossis case, most of his opposition has been on more or less equal machinery

[Maha]

'Will Mick be remembered in the same light as Hailwood'?

Mick Jagger? I wouldn't think so....

[Big Dave]

'Will Mick be remembered in the same light as Hailwood'?

Mick Jagger? I wouldn't think so....

If you talk to Rhys Jones about Mike Hailwood and their adventures around Europe - maybe so.

[trustme]

Hailwood & The Dr are the 2 guys who were rock stars of their era, both Hailwood & the Dr were well recognised outside motorcycling, they were/are a publicists dream , they lifted the profile of motorcycling worldwide, Mick was a prickly bugger who had a love / hate realtionship with the press. I don't think Mick did much for motorcycling outside Oz, bloody great rider though


My mousy, 50's, mother of 3 bean counting doris has a Rossi calender on the wall at her work station ' cos he is just so cute '

[merv]

I'll go with Ago for the vote, but it was mentioned above its about the best in their time. Ago proved his worth when he wasn't that young he switched from MV to Yamaha and won two more world championships, one on the 350 and one on the 500. Also for me was the fact he went to USA and rode the Daytona 200 and kicked Yankee arse to win that. The IOM has already been mentioned and he did very well there. A very versatile rider indeed.

Rossi is very similar but they don't race more than one class at a meeting any more like Ago used to so he can concentrate on that one bike and race. However he has shown versatility by riding the Suzuka 8 hours, and by changing brands when it really mattered. Will he re-ignite Ducati? I think the Burgess factor matters there.

So maybe if I could have voted for both I would have, as they are both so talented. Ago went on to manage race teams - will Vale do the same? Ago was always seen with pretty women and Vale seems to vary from that lol!

[Motu]

No,Mick won't be remembered like previous or later riders - he is the reason MotoGP came along.500GP was boring,the most exciting races were in Superbikes - Foggy,Slight,Edwards.The racing was very close and exciting,watching Doohan ride to win after win was totally boring...except to Australians maybe.If he was a stolen Kiwi we might be interested in him...perhaps we should do some research.

Ago not only had movie star good looks,he had a dab in movies too.Ago won the first premier championship on a 2 stroke,Rossi the last....some good bookends there.What Rossi brought back was the glamour of Ago,Hailwood,Sheene,and an important touch of humour.How we all went aghhhhh when he fluffed a pole start,languished mid pack for half the race,then started picking them off one by one - that's entertainment.What about when Biaggi took his hand off the bars and pushed Rossi off line - Rossi recovered,then repassed and gave Biaggi the finger - magic.

Ago was a cold blooded Italian killer.

Rossi is a killing clown.

[jasonu]

500GP was boring...

Cobblers! How can you say that. Think of the talent throughout that era, Swantz (especially on the Pepsi Suz), Rainey, Gardener, Doohan, Eddie Lawson (who won 3 or so world titles different makes of bike), Rossi, Biaggi, Kocinski, Mamola, Ron Haslam on the Elf Honda hub center steer, Simon Crafar won the Britt GP, the NSR twin cylinder bikes, the big bang Hondas and watching the others try to copy that little trick that eventually Doohan admitted was no better on the track but hughly distracted the opposition from the actual raceing at hand, the list goes on. Nothing has been better than a 500 smoking the rear tire like WG and co used to (traction control bah humbug!!!)
That's it, I'm done for now (deep breath)

[BMWST?]

Cobblers! How can you say that. Think of the talent throughout that era, Swantz (especially on the Pepsi Suz), Rainey, Gardener, Doohan, Eddie Lawson (who won 3 or so world titles different makes of bike), Rossi, Biaggi, Kocinski, Mamola, Ron Haslam on the Elf Honda hub center steer, Simon Crafar won the Britt GP, the NSR twin cylinder bikes, the big bang Hondas and watching the others try to copy that little trick that eventually Doohan admitted was no better on the track but hughly distracted the opposition from the actual raceing at hand, the list goes on. Nothing has been better than a 500 smoking the rear tire like WG and co used to (traction control bah humbug!!!)
That's it, I'm done for now (deep breath)

He was talking the Doohan era

[merv]

Here's a nice little clip on the two of them:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ik4efKc2xu0&feature=related

Another on Ago talking about Isle of Man:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJ3937Qs5x8

The 1967 race he talked about was this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Isle_of_Man_TT and for him and Hailwood to both be lapping at average speeds above 108mph on 500s, not modern 800 or 1000cc bikes with flash tyres, brakes and chassis was quite amazing in my view.

Here's some clips of that race. Funny they try to compare riders from different eras, just like this thread is, by talking to Geoff Duke and Stanley Woods:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G76o2g8XCBM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68IdLuenJZ0&feature=watch_response

[Rcktfsh]

Ago has competed at IOM. He has a JUMP named after him.

Rossi alluded to never wanting to ride there in competition.

Ago 1. Rossi 0.

Edit - Personally I don't think you can really compare the two, with the conditions of their respective victories being so different...


Against all my hero worship,I'll have to go for Rossi.Ago had it stacked all on his side - most of the manufacturers dropped out of GP racing,and MV were left to just clean up at will.Ago was there,right place,right time.But his opponents were some of the best we have ever seen...will Stoner and Pedrosa be remembered in the same light as Hailwood and Read?

But most important is who came second to Agostini -

In 1970 2nd in the 500GP was Ginger Molloy...from NZ.

In 1971 2nd in the 500GP was Keith Turner...from NZ.

In 1973 2nd in the 500GP was Kim Newcombe...from NZ.

Where are the Kiwi's giving Rossi a fight and only coming 2nd?

Hugh Anderson posted the 2nd fastest time in the wet & fog during open practice 125-500's on a 125 during the 1965 IOM beating Ago on a MV350 by 2 mins. Reckoned the danger in those conditions where the black blobs, slow riders appearing in the mist halfwat through a corner, couldn't understand why they slowed so much as whilst you may not have been able to see through the corner due to mist/fog it still went in the same direction as in the dry.