I've sussed it! (The racing problem) [Archive]

White trash

2nd June 2005, 12:38

Right.

Everyone has winged about the piss poor showing and interest in NZ road racing.

Here's the solution. And it's simple.

Everyone needs to attend as many bike races as possible this year.

And.

Take a mate that's never seen a bike race. You'll have 'em hooked in no time and more spectators makes it more appealing for sponsors which means more racing.

Do it.

Eit: Incidentaly, this wasn't my idea. I icked it from Motorcycle Racer Magazine.

R6_kid

2nd June 2005, 12:42

fuken oath mate. This is determined :niceone:

i've talked to my mate about getting in to racing. Essentially we are just saving etc but it's gonna be a few years before we get into it seriously.

Personally im looking at streetstocks for next season assuming im still on the ZXR

White trash

2nd June 2005, 12:43

Yeah but I mean spectating.

Sniper

2nd June 2005, 12:46

Im with WT on this one

bugjuice

2nd June 2005, 12:49

thought that's what everyone did anyway.. oh well, I'll stay as I do then..
tis a good day out, and something different you don't get to do every day

Riff Raff

2nd June 2005, 12:51

I always find it sad that there are so few spectators at race meetings. At the last Manfield meeting there was some bloody brilliant and exciting racing going on through all the classes. Most of the spectators tho were either pit bitches, other racers, etc. The fact that there was occassional rain probably kept more people away - but thats when it gets even more exciting and you appreciate the level of skill out on the track. I'd go to them all if I could. For me it's a great day out.

White trash

2nd June 2005, 12:52

thought that's what everyone did anyway.. oh well, I'll stay as I do then..
tis a good day out, and something different you don't get to do every day

Do you take someone who's never seen bike racing before though?

TonyB

2nd June 2005, 13:24

thought that's what everyone did anyway.. oh well, I'll stay as I do then..
tis a good day out, and something different you don't get to do every day
Nope, they don't. NZ GP in chch a couple of years back was heavily advertised on the radio. The weather was perfect, it was something like $20 for the whole weekend. Hardly anybody went.

Brian d marge

2nd June 2005, 13:56

To be honest as a spectator , its horrible Pretty much ALL road races I have been to ,,,,Except the IOM and Phillip Island ,,,,,,were cold windy and if it wasnt for the fact I like bikes so much I wouldnt have stayed

IOM u can sit outsde on deck chairs ( bottom of bray hill ) with a pint in your hand , a plowmans lunch ,,and watch the silly beggars throw it away on that bump in the middle of the braking line

Phillip Island was a little windy but warm the grand stands were sheltered and there was a lot of other entertainment, Also At both event the security were VERY helpful and polite (at Phillip Island .. they even left the gate and phone for a taxi for ..how kind was that )

Ruapuna can be nice with the ability to park the car and see most if not all the track ..but every time I went there the weather was ,,,terrible ..not a nice way to spend me holiday cooped up in a car,,, ( also there is nothing else to do so if the missus or kid gets bored lets go and get some food ...the hot dog stand and errr the hotdog stand )

The missus like mc racing for a different reason she likes the person and wants the best for that person just sometimes they go round and round on mc ...
She understands F1 the stratagy behind it and so will ask question such as how long was shuuii in the pits ...but yes it can be quite boring for other people
The level of creature comfort people expect no ...has gone up ,,,people tend to want more for there dollar ,,not just a program and a damp patch of earth to sit on ( wanganui was ok for food , but there wasnt much else to see ..townlys mx bike...still the triumph kept the ole man happy ,,,,he loved that !!
Me ..it can be a force ten gale and ten feet of water ..u have bikes and ill be there !!!

Stephen

Ixion

2nd June 2005, 14:08

To be honest, I find track racing boring. Road racing is OK, and classic bike racing is interesting because there are so many different types of machine.

But track racing, you can't see much of the bike because of the fairings, the bikes are all pretty much the same , I don't like seeing crashs and I don't know the riders personally. And the races aren't anything like long enough for any interest of the "can he make back the time he lost refueling" type.

So it all becomes a bit of a procession "oh look someone on some bike has overtaken someone else on some other bike".

Motocross has lots of visible action - you can see the bikes and see what they're doing. Trials has obvious challenge "Hold breath - is he going to make it up that bank without a dab ?". Road racing one can at least relate to, it's the same roads I ride on. And classic racing is interesting because of the differences in machines and relative performance "Well, the Bonny is much faster in the straights - but the Manx cleans it up in the corners. etc"

And as Mr d'Marge has pointed out, the facilities are generally crude at best. Compare what you have at a motorcycle race meeting with a day at the horse races at Ellerslie. Even if bikers are prepared to put up with crudity, partners/wives etc usually won't be. And will be even more bored watching SomeBike overtake OtherBike

Want interesting racing ? Ban fairings; make the races a LOT longer -hours not minutes, it's no accident that all the famous events, TT, Le Mans, Targa etc are long ; improve facilities a LOT.

Mr Skid

2nd June 2005, 14:20

Motocross has lots of visible action - you can see the bikes and see what they're doing.
Don't forget Speedway - solo's and sidecars.

I've been catching a few meetings at Rosebank Domain, and it's a good laugh seeing how out of shape the riders and swingers can get their bikes while still staying upright.

Fluffy Cat

2nd June 2005, 14:41

Bahh!
Motors are sooo so you know.They should be banned.Bring back fairings i say.
I do think the races could be longer though,at the mo they are more like sprints with the race mostly decided by who gets off the line the best.
I try to get people along but it seems there just aint enough interest at the mo.
Alice France Moto GP 75,000 turned up wow!.

Lou Girardin

2nd June 2005, 15:31

Why do street races get big crowds and circuits don't? Could it be that the safety obsession has made circuit racing too remote. Puke is the obvious example.

TonyB

2nd June 2005, 16:08

Why do street races get big crowds and circuits don't? Could it be that the safety obsession has made circuit racing too remote. Puke is the obvious example.
Was wondering that myself. Danger factor? Noise factor?
Here's my brilliant idea for the day. People like street races right? Circuits need more money right? 'Seasy innit? Sell off the land around the circuits as industrial estates. Circuit owners get more money, people turn up in droves to watch 'street' racing!!

:weird: :lol::killingme:

vifferman

2nd June 2005, 16:24

Ruapuna can be nice with the ability to park the car and see most if not all the track ..
Yeah, I liked that about it.

The missus like mc racing for a different reason she likes the person and wants the best for that person just sometimes they go round and round on mc
To be honest, I haven't really enjoyed any M/C racing I've been to, with the exception of the NZ GP in Christchurch in 1995 (?) when the Brittens were racing and finished 1, 2 and 4. And motocross when I was at school and a classmate was racing (NZ 250 champ).
The only other times I've been, I've felt disconnected from it, because I didn't really know anyone racing. The main attraction became just going there to see other bikes (at Classic meets) and ride/hang out with other bikers (Paeroa). If it costs too much, then I feel ripped off on a Cost vs. Entertainment basis, as the entertainment isn't huge. I'd rather ride than watch someone else ride.

James Deuce

2nd June 2005, 16:42

I'd rather do than watch. I like watching it on telly, because I can go to the loo, enjoy a nice coffee or middle eastern snack all without getting someone elses wee on my shoes

Riff Raff

2nd June 2005, 16:46

The only other times I've been, I've felt disconnected from it, because I didn't really know anyone racing.
That's the beauty of being a KBer - there are quite a few out there who race and so it makes it more fun when you have someone to watch.

TwoSeven

2nd June 2005, 16:50

Riff Raff

2nd June 2005, 16:55

Why half them are racing here and not in the aus national series is beyond me.
And there you have it... they can't afford to, sponsers don't think it's viable for them because there aren't enough people interested in going to watch the racing to notice the sponsorship on the bikes etc. Vicious circle.

White trash

2nd June 2005, 17:03

I think really, they just need to get the top guys overseas. Even lawn bowls took off when milly kahn (or whatever her name was) started doing well overseas.

Why half them are racing here and not in the aus national series is beyond me.

I'll tell you why.

Because Hayden Fitsgerald, who can win at will here, finnished 26th out of 26 finnishers at in race one of the last round of Supersport in Australia. We wont hold that against him, he was riding a Honda.

Karl Morgan finnished 22nd.

250learna

2nd June 2005, 17:10

I keep meaning to go with m8s but i always end up having work or other arangements with girlfriend,
first one i guess i could call in sick for but for the second one :nono: she'd hunt me down.
Next time round ill make sure im free :niceone:

eliot-ness

2nd June 2005, 17:15

Why do street races get big crowds and circuits don't? Could it be that the safety obsession has made circuit racing too remote. Puke is the obvious example.

I reckon it's because street racing is a big day for the town, The whole population, bikers or not, will be there, plus from all the surrounding countryside. It's cheaper,the wives and kids can do a bit of shopping when they get bored, and there's lots of cafes for a decent meal. Circuit racing will never draw huge crowds. N.Z. doesn't have the population to support it and having some of the best riders in the world won't change that. Pick any track in Europe or the U.K. and within a 100 mile radius there is a population of several million. Bikers alone in that area will guarantee a good crowd. Wouldn't want the population over here though

-----------------
If you think nobody cares........try missing a couple of payments

Motu

2nd June 2005, 17:56

Don't forget Speedway - solo's and sidecars.

I've been catching a few meetings at Rosebank Domain, and it's a good laugh seeing how out of shape the riders and swingers can get their bikes while still staying upright.

Rosebank is a good example - on a big meeting with international riders they will advertise on the radio,they get sponsors involved and the meetings can be packed.Back when the bar was open it was good fun,Fosters Girls at times too,just a great atmoshere - the races are only 4 laps,then next race is already lined up ready to go before the gate goes up,thrills and spills,it's an action packed day...in the city,not far from home.

Back when the Stock Bikes (Flattrack) started you could just take any bike around - remove brakes and tape the headlamp,no rear knobs - there were more bikes going out than would fit,I remember 25 bikes at a time...huge spectator interest.

I used to go to every meeting,this year I've only managed a couple - but it's always there for a good time on a sunday afternoon.

Racey Rider

2nd June 2005, 18:31

That's the beauty of being a KBer - there are quite a few out there who race and so it makes it more fun when you have someone to watch.

and laugh at! :scooter: :o

sedge

2nd June 2005, 18:45

I'd rather do than watch. I like watching it on telly, because I can go to the loo, enjoy a nice coffee or middle eastern snack all without getting someone elses wee on my shoes

Heh heh, you must have the best appointed crapper in NZ.

Sedge.

James Deuce

2nd June 2005, 18:55

Heh heh, you must have the best appointed crapper in NZ.

Sedge.

I'm getting a 15" LCD TV and surround sound too.

sedge

2nd June 2005, 19:25

I'm getting a 15" LCD TV and surround sound too.

I have pseudo surround in my toilet, it's more of a point source with a clever series of spatialising echoes.

And come on, you've got kids... How often do you really not have someone elses wee on your shoes ?

Sedge.

Two Smoker

2nd June 2005, 19:41

I'll tell you why.

Because Hayden Fitsgerald, who can win at will here, finnished 26th out of 26 finnishers at in race one of the last round of Supersport in Australia. We wont hold that against him, he was riding a Honda.

Karl Morgan finnished 22nd.

Was talking to Hayden about this... biggest problem is he is down on Hp... his CBR only puts out 111hp while all the bikes he was racing against put out around 130hp...

ALL THOSE WHINGING "i dont know anyone" WELL YOU BLOODY WELL KNOW ME, IVE POSTED OVER 3300 OF BULLSHIT HERE...

Kwaka-Kid

2nd June 2005, 19:48

what if you dont have a friend?

hypothetically speaking of course...

gav

2nd June 2005, 20:16

I'll tell you why.

Because Hayden Fitsgerald, who can win at will here, finnished 26th out of 26 finnishers at in race one of the last round of Supersport in Australia. We wont hold that against him, he was riding a Honda.

Karl Morgan finnished 22nd.
And it was hardly a new Honda either, it was Shaun Harris old F4i wasnt it? Why go to all that trouble and expense and race that? Why not take his GSXR? :weird:

Two Smoker

2nd June 2005, 20:57

And it was hardly a new Honda either, it was Shaun Harris old F4i wasnt it? Why go to all that trouble and expense and race that? Why not take his GSXR? :weird:

Well anyway, he is doing this years Aussie Supersport championship... on a brand spanking CBR600RR (he got it earlier this year) Its pretty impressive watching him playing with 600's and 1000's in the front pack on his SV650....

woody68

2nd June 2005, 22:02

gav

2nd June 2005, 23:05

Yes, I can see how 4 hours on a Ducati would be a grind. :rofl:
Anyway, apparently Andrew Stroud is doing three more wild card races on his Team NZ Superbike GSXR. And is looking at doing the full series next year. Now ideally the team should look at running (say) Hayden Fitzgerald on a 600 as a team mate. Sort of groom him to taker over from Stroudy, set the team up as a Team NZ thingy, we could all buy red socks or something, red knee sliders maybe?

wkid_one

3rd June 2005, 06:52

You mean - the trick to a sport staying alive is more people watching it? Well done - revelation of the century.

Riff Raff

3rd June 2005, 08:00

Many years ago they used to get the superbikes here at manfeild and I went to the last meet they had in NZ.
I was sitting in the stands and was bored shit less you could'nt see what was going on and the wooden seats were hard on the arse then we had to ride 4hrs to get home.
Not much fun
Really? I went to that - rode on the back of an NSR250 from Hastings in the pissing rain (didn't have proper riding gear so got soaked), but I loved every minute of it.There was a big crowd there - lots of atmosphere. I loved the sounds of the bikes racing past and watching the battles going on for first position. For me that was the start of my love affair for watching racing. But we can't all be the same - some of us get off on it - others don't.

Lou Girardin

3rd June 2005, 08:14

Maybe we'll have to lose the "petrol engine is the enemy" attitude in the corridors of power. Bring back the brrrrrm, shoot a greenie!

Deano

3rd June 2005, 08:17

You mean - the trick to a sport staying alive is more people watching it? Well done - revelation of the century.

Hence the encouragement thread to get off your ass and support it wiseguy. :wait:

Racey Rider

3rd June 2005, 08:39

Bring back the brrrrrm, shoot a greenie!

Apparently if you burn them, they give off more carbon dioxide emmissions.

Apparently. ;)

Maybe if the Greenie's have there own cemetry,, when it's full, we could lay a race track over top of it to save on space, save the environment etc. :niceone:

Brian d marge

4th June 2005, 14:04

Was wondering that myself. Danger factor? Noise factor?
Here's my brilliant idea for the day. People like street races right? Circuits need more money right? 'Seasy innit? Sell off the land around the circuits as industrial estates. Circuit owners get more money, people turn up in droves to watch 'street' racing!!

:weird: :lol::killingme:

Brooklands ...yes and guess where I would open my bike shop!! Lady wigram would be perfect ...( sorry u will have to speak up I havent got my hearing aid in )
That would be a definate plan Stan!!

Stephen
Lover of good Ideas

Slipstream

5th June 2005, 04:18

I love to watch some fellow Kbers on the track....

It may seem weird, but I have never seen anybody feel the track as much as White Trash. It is a sight to behold. He seems truly to be one with his bike. I'd never get tired of watching it. Someone who is never tired of taking it to the complete edge of the track going a bit faster into the corner, taking the slightly unnerving inside and wheeling for a finish just to show he's got it!

Seriously people. I've seen a few and NOONE does a track or a road like White Trash!!!

And in saying that, I love to watch Frosty Boy and Kwaka Kid duke it out.
The battle between raw natural and hard earned talent at it's best. You wanna see a battle, watch these two fellas....it's a fifty fifty...

I wish I had the chance to see everyone racing.... it's always better when you know the people. I hear Mitch is AWESOME :Punk: ......Arron Slight and Haga are the only other people I like watching, although I hear Quasi is someone to watch out for on the track in the wet. :niceone:

Lets see some more KBers on the telly :D

mikey

5th June 2005, 11:53

hahahahahaha mitch is awesome......

is there a girls grade with only her in it?

FROSTY

5th June 2005, 14:02

ActuallY Ive been talking to the gee gee people. They are having the same sort of problem we are -declining attendance at meetings etc etc.
How are they combatting it??
They are creating Huge events a bloody big carnival.
bouncy castles for the kids,a fashion show etc -and woohoo suddenly theyre getting packed houses.
I think we probably need to really juice up the big meetings.
Create something people want to come and see.
And not just bikers -something for cage drivers too.
Heres an idea --what about combining a car/bike show with the race meeting??
Use the area the club circuit is on as like a fairground

Pixie

5th June 2005, 17:30

Skyryder

5th June 2005, 23:35

Maybe we'll have to lose the "petrol engine is the enemy" attitude in the corridors of power. Bring back the brrrrrm, shoot a greenie!

Whatdyya mean shoot a greenie. Shoot the fucking lot. Well at least the ones in Wellington.

I think there are two reasons why motor cycle racing has not caught on here.

1 There is so lttle coverage on TV

2 As road users we are a minority.

Cages make up the majority of road users by far with the result that Joe Public has more of an interest in them than bikes.

And this interest or lack of it determines the televison coverage.

It's a catch 22.

If you want to capture the publics attention I would think that a street race would be the way to go but with the recent cancelations of street racing in the car motor sport I doubt if this would be a goer.

Bottom line you would need heavy sponsership and I just don't think there are enough of us to warrent the expenditure for this to happen in New Zealand.

Skyryder

Slipstream

7th June 2005, 20:16

........bouncy castles
............
I think we probably need to really juice up the big meetings.
Create something people want to come and see.

I'd go to more events if there were bouncy castles :niceone: *bounce*....*bounce* :yes:

Lou Girardin

8th June 2005, 08:26

It also helps if there's strong bike ownership, one reason why the sport is so big in Europe. Every 16 yr old with a Haga rep Aprilia scooter thinks he's a racing God and goes to the meetings.
It's no co-incidence that racing was strongest here in the 70's and 80's.
Cheap import cars have nearly knackered the bike industry and it's mainly we baby-boomers that have revived it. But we need a decent track in Auckland, I loath Puke, it's a shithole and I only go to the odd big meeting.

Motu

8th June 2005, 08:49

1 There is so lttle coverage on TV

2 As road users we are a minority.

.

Bottom line you would need heavy sponsership and I just don't think there are enough of us to warrent the expenditure for this to happen in New Zealand.

Skyryder

In the 70s there was no TV coverage at all....and the meetings were packed,sponsership was unheard off....and the meetings were packed.As Lou says,less bums on bikes and so less interest - riding bikes is a leasure time activity now,and I prefer to spend my free time riding not watching races.

Brian d marge

8th June 2005, 14:02

In the 70s there was no TV coverage at all....and the meetings were packed,sponsership was unheard off....and the meetings were packed.As Lou says,less bums on bikes and so less interest - riding bikes is a leasure time activity now,and I prefer to spend my free time riding not watching races.

There was 88 000 at that italian MotoGp 88000 ... there was about 15000 at waganui and Paroea
you can do a lot of advertising with 88000 .....

Sort of clarifys everything really

My biased opinion .....Televise MX ...and enduro ....Real mens sports
non of this poofie roundy roundy no bumpy sandal wearing doliphin watching moto geepee

Stephen
must dash as the Motogp has finished downloading :niceone:

gav

8th June 2005, 23:39

What was the crowd figure at Qatar and China?

TwoSeven

9th June 2005, 17:04

New Zealand really needs to learn that its a small country on the event side of things and start planning things that way.

When you live in a european country such as Italy and have a population of 58 million you can plan an event of some size assuming that only 0.001% of the population will actually turn up for it. That will give you a crowed of about 88,000 that if charged $10 per time returns $880,000 - event hosting cost + tv rights.

The important figure is to calculate the actual interest base of the sport. Get this wrong and you lose money big time. Using the same figure 4,000,000 * 0.001% = 4,000 people out of the TOTAL population are likely to want to turn up.

Now you have to modify that with the total population that have ACCESS to the event - ie. live in a city within half a days travel. Suddenly you find have a much smaller event turnout - probably half that or about 2,000 people max in the north island and maybe only 500 people in the south island.

Now thats the numbers if you assume people are only interested in bike racing. What you need to do with event planning is target all the people who DONT like bike racing - but want a day out. Thats what wanganui is all about - I suspect you'll find that many of the 15k that turned up were only going because its a place to drink have fun and be with their mates/family.

Anyone thats been to a sbk or MotoGP event at philip island or even looked at all the promo material will see thats where its aimed.

The other way of doing it is make the event for TV coverage only (MotoGP, World cup rugby, olympics) - but that requires a huge capital investment (including tax funding) and is well beyond NZs general capabilities (we cant even afford a new stadium for auckland that meets the optimum criteria for the RWC final).